View Full Version : Undefeated Teams at Regional Events
After going undefeated at North Star, we were curious just how many teams did it this year at other events. Turns out the list is much longer than I expected. By my count, it was done 19 times. 2 teams did it at more than one event (1114 & 359). 1114 (3 events) & 971 (1 event) are the only undefeated teams for the season.
Here's my list. Please add omissions, or correct mistakes.
359 @ Arizona & Hawaii
217 @ Cass Tech
25 @ Las Vegas
1676 @ Virginia
1114 @ Pittsburg & Waterloo & Toronto (!!!)
2630 @ Isreal
2669 @ Isreal
971 @ Silicon Valley
254 @ Silicon Valley
1732 @ Midwest
1208 @ St. Louis
148 @ Dallas
368 @ Hawaii
1124 @ Connecticut
71 @ North Star
1986 @ North Star
217 at Cass tech District (18-0-0)
Joe Ross
06-04-2010, 22:46
I think 356 on your list should be 359. If that's the case, you have them twice.
971 is also undefeated for the season (only attending 1 regional). The last time 971 was undefeated prior to the championship, they won the championship.
525 was REALLY close... They only lost in the Finals at Minnesota 10,000 Lakes.
217 at Cass tech District (18-0-0)
I had other mistakes, but they were in the list.
1114 isn't undefeated. They got DQ'ed twice at Waterloo.
Nawaid Ladak
06-04-2010, 22:57
25 was actually one penalty free match from being undefeated at New Jersey (and for the season). It sort of reminds you of this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/23123) and this (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/team/25/2006)
Tom Bottiglieri
06-04-2010, 23:00
It sort of reminds you of this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/23123) and this (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/team/25/2006)
They only lost the important ones... :rolleyes:
1114 isn't undefeated. They got DQ'ed twice at Waterloo.
Not sure that qualifies as defeated. Not reflected in their record at least. I'm not touting any particular team, just sharing some research.
1114 isn't undefeated. They got DQ'ed twice at Waterloo.
How did they get DQ'd?.. I just never seen it... and certainly not from a team like 1114!
waialua359
06-04-2010, 23:09
I was shocked that for a 28 team regional in HI with 12 matches, we never had to play against 368. Both of us at 18-0-0 will never happen again.
To me, it involves a lot of luck.
If you told me at the end of build season that we would have no losses for 39 matches in a row and counting, I wouldn't have believed it, ever. I keep telling our 1st year students, its never going to be like this again.
Josh Fox
06-04-2010, 23:11
How did they get DQ'd?.. I just never seen it... and certainly not from a team like 1114!
Now I don't know for sure, but what I thought I heard happen was that, in an attempt to maximize their seeding points, 1114 went into their opponents home zone to score balls for them while another robot on their alliance was already in that zone.
This happened to 67 at MSC as well in one match.
Now I don't know for sure, but what I thought I heard happen was that, in an attempt to maximize their seeding points, 1114 went into their opponents home zone to score balls for them while another robot on their alliance was already in that zone.
This happened to 67 at MSC as well in one match.
Certainly wouldn't call that a defeat. Just a "Doh!" moment.
The Lucas
06-04-2010, 23:16
25 @ Las Vegas
25 is 31-1-0 after NJ and NV regionals. Their only loss was due to 14 DOGMA penalties in NJ final match 2.
In 2006, 25 also attended NJ and NV winning both with a record of 31-0-0.
Viva Las Vegas! That trip to Vegas seems to be 25's lucky charm for the season. Will they attend Vegas again any time soon?
Now I don't know for sure, but what I thought I heard happen was that, in an attempt to maximize their seeding points, 1114 went into their opponents home zone to score balls for them while another robot on their alliance was already in that zone.
This happened to 67 at MSC as well in one match.
Yup, Josh has it right. It happened twice in Waterloo. The first time was a complete goof up on our part, we totally missed the presence of one of our partners in the defensive zone. The second time we were heading back over the bump to the defensive zone, but at the same time our partner zoomed through the tunnel and beat us into the zone. Either way, they were both a couple of embarrassing mistakes that Kyle Willick (The Commander) won't live down for a while.
(On the other hand, this goes down in a long line of embarrassing mistakes by Simbot coaches. In 2008, Derek Bessette had the drive team hurdle the wrong colour ball twice at the start of a match at the Midwest Regional.)
Anyways, back to the topic of undefeated teams, here is what the Simbot Research & Statistics teams has come up with:
Team R Desc Result Record Standings
359 Arizona Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
1124 Connecticut Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
148 Dallas Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
217 Cass Tech Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
359 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
368 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 2
1732 Midwest Regional Winner 10-0-0 2
1986 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 9-0-0 2
71 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 8-0-1 1
1208 St. Louis Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
25 Las Vegas Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
1114 Greater Toronto Regional Winner 9-0-1 1
1114 Pittsburgh Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
971 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
254 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 9-0-1 2
1676 Virginia Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
1114 Waterloo Regional Winner 11-0-0 1
All this and more will be included in the 2010 Team 1114 Championship Scouting Database, which will be released shortly after the announcement of the Championship divisions.
525 was REALLY close... They only lost in the Finals at Minnesota 10,000 Lakes.
Yes - we had a good run but 1714, 2062 and 3038 were a great alliance. One thing I thought was pretty funny, though: in qualifying we always scored 1 or 2 balls from the third zone. Twice we came within a few inches of scoring the third ball. In the eliminations, both of our partners were tall bots that had autonomous modes that moved in our path. We would bounce the first ball off of 2518 and the second off of 2177. Didn't score a single ball in automous in the eliminations. Not much you can do at that point but have a good laugh about it. Overall, it was a good run - 2177 and 2518 were great partners that took us all the way to the finals.
Yup, Josh has it right. It happened twice in Waterloo. The first time was a complete goof up on our part, we totally missed the presence of one of our partners in the defensive zone. The second time we were heading back over the bump to the defensive zone, but at the same time our partner zoomed through the tunnel and beat us into the zone. Either way, they were both a couple of embarrassing mistakes that Kyle Willick (The Commander) won't live down for a while.
(On the other hand, this goes down in a long line of embarrassing mistakes by Simbot coaches. In 2008, Derek Bessette had the drive team hurdle the wrong colour ball twice at the start of a match at the Midwest Regional.)
Anyways, back to the topic of undefeated teams, here is what the Simbot Research & Statistics teams has come up with:
Team R Desc Result Record Standings
359 Arizona Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
1124 Connecticut Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
148 Dallas Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
217 Cass Tech Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
359 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
368 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 2
1732 Midwest Regional Winner 10-0-0 2
1986 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 9-0-0 2
71 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 8-0-1 1
1208 St. Louis Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
25 Las Vegas Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
1114 Greater Toronto Regional Winner 9-0-1 1
1114 Pittsburgh Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
971 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
254 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 9-0-1 2
1676 Virginia Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
1114 Waterloo Regional Winner 11-0-0 1
All this and more will be included in the 2010 Team 1114 Championship Scouting Database, which will be released shortly after the announcement of the Championship divisions.
This list doesn't seem to include elimination matches...
This list doesn't seem to include elimination matches...
Correct. This is the full list of teams who went undefeated at a regional, but the record shown is just for qualifying. Our database only tracks record by qualifying matches, but I manually pulled out the teams who went undefeated in qualifying and then went on to lose an elimination match.
Joe Ross
06-04-2010, 23:48
This list doesn't seem to include elimination matches...
While the records show the qualification records only, it does not include teams that were undefeated during qualifying and then lost during the eliminations.
Anyways, back to the topic of undefeated teams, here is what the Simbot Research & Statistics teams has come up with:
Team R Desc Result Record Standings
359 Arizona Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
1124 Connecticut Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
148 Dallas Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
217 Cass Tech Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
359 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
368 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 2
1732 Midwest Regional Winner 10-0-0 2
1986 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 9-0-0 2
71 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 8-0-1 1
1208 St. Louis Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
25 Las Vegas Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
1114 Greater Toronto Regional Winner 9-0-1 1
1114 Pittsburgh Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
971 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
254 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 9-0-1 2
1676 Virginia Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
1114 Waterloo Regional Winner 11-0-0 1
What an amazing coincidence that EVERY ONE of those undefeated teams was also regional winner! :eek:
Vikesrock
07-04-2010, 00:00
What an amazing coincidence that EVERY ONE of those undefeated teams was also regional winner! :eek:
He manually took out teams that were undefeated in quals but did not win the regional or lost an elims match on the way to a regional win.
It was a joke. Undefeated = Winner. OK, so I'm no comedian.
waialua359
07-04-2010, 00:07
It was a joke. Undefeated = Winner. OK, so I'm no comedian.
I thought you were serious before I read that the undefeated qualification match teams were taken out, if they lost during elimination matches.
It was a joke. Undefeated = Winner. OK, so I'm no comedian.
Strangely, this year it is possible (but highly unlikely) to win all your matches but not win the regional, if you get many red cards, fail to get in the top 8, and then are not selected by an alliance captain.
Actually, in FIRST, undefeated == winner.
If you never lose a match, and you have to lose two matches to be out of the eliminations, then if you are undefeated and the event is over, you have won the event.
Barring incidents like eyu100 suggests (which, BTW, have yet to happen--after about the second red card, most teams would be seriously thinking about switching out whoever was responsible, if they hadn't already done so), the above holds.
However, winner != undefeated. Every team that won that isn't on the list is proof that that last statement is true.
Also note that, while I won't tell you this officially or at an event, by competing in the competition, even if you don't win anything, you win just as much as by winning the event. Remember, I won't tell you this. I prefer to let you find out for yourself.
AdamHeard
07-04-2010, 00:29
Actually, in FIRST, undefeated == winner.
If you never lose a match, and you have to lose two matches to be out of the eliminations, then if you are undefeated and the event is over, you have won the event.
Barring incidents like eyu100 suggests (which, BTW, have yet to happen--after about the second red card, most teams would be seriously thinking about switching out whoever was responsible, if they hadn't already done so), the above holds.
However, winner != undefeated. Every team that won that isn't on the list is proof that that last statement is true.
Also note that, while I won't tell you this officially or at an event, by competing in the competition, even if you don't win anything, you win just as much as by winning the event. Remember, I won't tell you this. I prefer to let you find out for yourself.
Technically, a team could go undefeated in qualifications and not make eliminations. Winning every match 1-0 would result in seeding very low.
Nuttyman54
07-04-2010, 00:36
Technically, a team could go undefeated in qualifications and not make eliminations. Winning every match 1-0 would result in seeding very low.
Depending on your definition of undefeated, if you're counting every team that doesn't have a loss as undefeated, you could also go with 0-0 tie matches, which give you even less points.
Technically, a team could go undefeated in qualifications and not make eliminations. Winning every match 1-0 would result in seeding very low. Depends on the event.
1 point from your penalized score + 5 points for winning = 6 points/match
Randomly grabbing a few regionals:
Utah (10 matches), 22nd
North Carolina, (9 matches), 43rd
WPI (12 matches), 22nd
L.A. (10 matches), 56th
At Utah or WPI, you'd seed pretty well--well enough to be noticed, quite probably, and almost certainly a backup. At NC or L.A., you'd be pretty much out.
But if a team is consistently winning 1-0, you'd suspect that they 1) had the easiest schedule in the world and 2) might be fixing matches. In all practicality, if your best win is 1-0, the next halfway decent team to come along is going to kick your butt pretty hard, making you a 1-loss team.
Technicality versus practicality...
The Lucas
07-04-2010, 00:43
Actually, in FIRST, undefeated == winner.
If you never lose a match, and you have to lose two matches to be out of the eliminations, then if you are undefeated and the event is over, you have won the event.
You can't win if you dont make Elims. You can go undefeated and not make elims in this seeding system (0-0 ties are particularly damaging). I don't mean to pick on Israel (I know about the comm problems :( ), but consider:
Team 2215 at IS (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/team/2215)
Record 2-0-2 (one match was a surrogate)
Ranked 37th of 55
Did not make Elims
It didn't take me long to find an example in IS. I just went to TBA and clicked on winners of matches (4th try). There are probably more examples there. We should add them to the list. For better or worse they will finish the season undefeated in 4 matches.
Nuttyman54
07-04-2010, 00:49
WPI (12 matches), 22nd
At Utah or WPI, you'd seed pretty well--well enough to be noticed, quite probably, and almost certainly a backup.
At WPI, with only 29 teams, I wouldn't consider seeding 22nd as seeding pretty well. Given that only 5 teams don't make finals though, you probably would still get picked.
Guess I better clarify, then.
Given: Team X is in eliminations by some means.
Given: Team X is undefeated after eliminations.
Then: Team X won the event.
BTW, I thought of another case that would make my previous statement untrue:
Given: Team X is in eliminations.
Given: Team X is undefeated going into the eliminations.
At some point, Team X wins a match (we'll assume undefeated at that point too), but is too busted up to continue. Team Y is brought in as a backup to continue, and the alliance drops their next two matches.
Team X is still undefeated. (You could argue that as a member of the alliance, they took two losses, to which I say: They weren't on the field, were they? That's like saying that the [pick your baseball team] lost and a pitcher who wasn't playing that day got the loss as well as the pitcher who pitched the loss.)
Chris is me
07-04-2010, 00:59
or WPI, you'd seed pretty well--well enough to be noticed, quite probably, and almost certainly a backup. At NC or L.A., you'd be pretty much out.
22nd at WPI is basically only above robots that were significantly broken for parts of the event. WPI had 28 teams...
XaulZan11
07-04-2010, 01:02
I think I'm going to tell my team not to show to any of our matches in Atlanta. Just to say we went undefeated at the World Championship.
waialua359
07-04-2010, 03:18
I think I'm going to tell my team not to show to any of our matches in Atlanta. Just to say we went undefeated at the World Championship.
As long as its not any matches with us, that is perfectly fine.:)
Dancin103
07-04-2010, 19:59
25 was actually one penalty free match from being undefeated at New Jersey (and for the season). It sort of reminds you of this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/23123) and this (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/team/25/2006)
Most definately YES!
Cass
DonRotolo
07-04-2010, 20:03
1676 was completely undefeated in Virginia, playing only 6 elimination matches to win the regional.
Yup, Josh has it right. It happened twice in Waterloo. The first time was a complete goof up on our part, we totally missed the presence of one of our partners in the defensive zone. The second time we were heading back over the bump to the defensive zone, but at the same time our partner zoomed through the tunnel and beat us into the zone. Either way, they were both a couple of embarrassing mistakes that Kyle Willick (The Commander) won't live down for a while.
(On the other hand, this goes down in a long line of embarrassing mistakes by Simbot coaches. In 2008, Derek Bessette had the drive team hurdle the wrong colour ball twice at the start of a match at the Midwest Regional.)
Anyways, back to the topic of undefeated teams, here is what the Simbot Research & Statistics teams has come up with:
Team R Desc Result Record Standings
359 Arizona Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
1124 Connecticut Regional Winner 8-0-2 1
148 Dallas Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
217 Cass Tech Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
359 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 1
368 Hawaii Regional Winner 12-0-0 2
1732 Midwest Regional Winner 10-0-0 2
1986 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 9-0-0 2
71 Minnesota North Star Regional Winner 8-0-1 1
1208 St. Louis Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
25 Las Vegas Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
1114 Greater Toronto Regional Winner 9-0-1 1
1114 Pittsburgh Regional Winner 11-0-1 1
971 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 10-0-0 1
254 Silicon Valley Regional Winner 9-0-1 2
1676 Virginia Regional Winner 9-0-0 1
1114 Waterloo Regional Winner 11-0-0 1
All this and more will be included in the 2010 Team 1114 Championship Scouting Database, which will be released shortly after the announcement of the Championship divisions.
Team 2481 was undefeated (10-0-0) in qualification matches at the Wisconsin Regional. We were also the #1 seed and went undefeated through match one of finals (5-0-0). After that match we (along with our alliance partners) had "undetermined" loss of communications. Our overall record was 15-2-0. Overall, great year for a third year team. Thanks teams 706 and 3363.
I guess I ruled out any likelyhood of a team going undefeated in quals, but not making elims. Technically possible. I only searched event winners. If anyone knows of such as team, chime in. Perhaps 1114's database could quickly tell if there was any such team.
I guess I ruled out any likelyhood of a team going undefeated in quals, but not making elims. Technically possible. I only searched event winners. If anyone knows of such as team, chime in. Perhaps 1114's database could quickly tell if there was any such team.
Ask and you shall receive. (Roberto was quick with this query)
Here are all the undefeated teams who did not make the eliminations. Naturally they're all from Israel, because of the limited number of matches they played due to technical difficulties.
Team R Desc Result Record Standings
2215 Israel Did not make eliminations 2-0-2 37
1946 Israel Did not make eliminations 2-0-1 12
1577 Israel Did not make eliminations 1-0-2 35
1574 Israel Did not make eliminations 1-0-2 49
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