View Full Version : Einstein Field: Division Winner Predictions
Currently, there is an individual thread for each division; be it Archimedes, Curie, Galileo, or Newton: the underlying discussion always flows towards the "powerhouses". Who has the best chance of making it to Einstein?
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=432
I decided to make this thread in order to discuss this in one place, rather than going from thread-to-thread.
So, Chief Delphi community, WHO will breakaway from the wide assortment of teams to make it to Einstein? To the TOP?
:rolleyes: Let the Buzzing begin.
I know in Curie several people are talking about seeing 1114 and 469 team up and take it all. I'm gonna wait until I see a few matches on Thursday before I make a call though.
Akash Rastogi
10-04-2010, 00:23
Just wait for Looking Forward's Championship predictions. I have a feeling they will be really well written and insightful. More than anything people will post up in this thread.
In the mean time....67 and 125 for Newton, if all goes well for our friends in Boston ;)
Both teams are fantastic. However most teams have implemented autonomous or some other strategy to shut out 469 from the tower.
1114 is more of the wide-range type of robot with excellent scoring capabilities.
469 must be able to attach to the tower in order to cycle balls, and also needs a good scoring robot on their side to support their efforts.
If their denied access to the tower . . .
Clinton Bolinger
10-04-2010, 00:32
469 is just as deadly out of the Tunnel, they are an excellent mid field shooter. (probably in the top 5 shooters on Curie)
In order to beat 469 you have to do more then just keep them out of the tunnel/tower.
-Clinton-
That would be 1114 and 469, coming out of the Curie division. Prediction: massive scores, no third matches.
Actual predictions:
Archimedes: Very strong division making predictions hard. However, I see 25, 341, 1629 coming out on top after a hard fight against a field that includes 359, 148, 330, 33, 254, 1918, and 71. It's so close that I'm not going to predict who the finalists are.
Galileo: 1086, 2056, 1625 best 217, 1717, 1466 in the finals to move on.
Curie: 1114, 469, 111 best 2345, 1732, 115 to come to the big show.
Newton: 67, 294, 1902 best 16, 910, 932.
Depending who plays who:
A-C, G-N:
C, G
C wins.
A-G, C-N:
A, C
C wins.
A-N, G-C:
N, C
C wins.
We all know how predictions are, though.
My call for each division:
Galileo: 1717, 217
Curie: 1114, 469
Newton: 67, 1902 but somehow 177 will be on einstein again, it is their destiny.
Archimedes: 25, 330
Ian Curtis
10-04-2010, 00:46
Just wait for Looking Forward's Championship predictions. I have a feeling they will be really well written and insightful. More than anything people will post up in this thread.
In the mean time....67 and 125 for Newton, if all goes well for our friends in Boston ;)
Excuse the mild threadjacking, but what was holding up 125 in Boston? Why were the balls missing the robot so much, and why wasn't it an easy fix? When they caught the ball, it seemed like their direction mechanism actually worked better than 469.
waialua359
10-04-2010, 01:07
That would be 1114 and 469, coming out of the Curie division. Prediction: massive scores, no third matches.
Actual predictions:
Archimedes: Very strong division making predictions hard. However, I see 25, 341, 1629 coming out on top after a hard fight against a field that includes 359, 148, 330, 33, 254, 1918, and 71. It's so close that I'm not going to predict who the finalists are.
Galileo: 1086, 2056, 1625 best 217, 1717, 1466 in the finals to move on.
Curie: 1114, 469, 111 best 2345, 1732, 115 to come to the big show.
Newton: 67, 294, 1902 best 16, 910, 932.
Depending who plays who:
A-C, G-N:
C, G
C wins.
A-G, C-N:
A, C
C wins.
A-N, G-C:
N, C
C wins.
We all know how predictions are, though.
I'd bet money that the bold alliance will never happen. Two of them yes, but no scouters will let all 3 get together.
Tom Line
10-04-2010, 01:09
Both teams are fantastic. However most teams have implemented autonomous or some other strategy to shut out 469 from the tower.
1114 is more of the wide-range type of robot with excellent scoring capabilities.
469 must be able to attach to the tower in order to cycle balls, and also needs a good scoring robot on their side to support their efforts.
If their denied access to the tower . . .
If they are denied access to the tower they will tear you apart by scoring. They are deadly accurate from the midfield and their drivetrain modifications before Michigan State Championship made them as fast and as agile as any other robot. While you stick your robot in the tower to keep them away, they are free to score and your alliance is down a robot.
I don't want to turn this into a 469 thread, but simply denying them a tower doesn't win you the match. Not by a long shot.
That said, I fully expect to see 469+1114 against 67 and whomever comes out of Newton with them.
I'd bet money that the bold alliance will never happen. Two of them yes, but no scouters will let all 3 get together.
Thats what they said about 1114, 217, and 148. But that alliance isn't going to happen.
waialua359
10-04-2010, 01:13
Thats what they said about 1114, 217, and 148. But that alliance isn't going to happen.
That was a different game with 2 huge scoring balls only. 148 was a lapbot.
1114, 469 and 111 will NOT happen. If it did, scouters will be fired.:)
If they are denied access to the tower they will tear you apart by scoring. They are deadly accurate from the midfield and their drivetrain modifications before Michigan State Championship made them as fast and as agile as any other robot. While you stick your robot in the tower to keep them away, they are free to score and your alliance is down a robot.
I don't want to turn this into a 469 thread, but simply denying them a tower doesn't win you the match. Not by a long shot.
That said, I fully expect to see 469+1114 against 67 and whomever comes out of Newton with them.
My intention was not to demean 469 capabilities when not attached to the tower- not by a long shot. What I meant to do was to compare 1114 and 469's differences in approach to their scoring methods observed from their previous regionals attended.
Apologies.
However I also did not intend for this thread to focus only Curie's most acknowledged teams. Other divisions?
Thats what they said about 1114, 217, and 148. But that alliance isn't going to happen.
This year, we KNOW that that one isn't going to happen.
And when I wrote that post, it was simply a matter of: Who's likely to slide down the farthest without people noticing? Wildstang has yet to make it past the semis this year, with a 21-8-1 regional record. There's a chance they'll slide, and 1114's scouters are very, very good.
Akash Rastogi
10-04-2010, 01:16
Excuse the mild threadjacking, but what was holding up 125 in Boston? Why were the balls missing the robot so much, and why wasn't it an easy fix? When they caught the ball, it seemed like their direction mechanism actually worked better than 469.
They have a few variables in their system.
1) The ball first bounces on one of the horizontal bars of the ball return so this variable greatly effects the behavior of the ball in thier system.
2) Speed variations of the ball coming down the ball return would change the free-fall of the ball from their director dramatically (I know right, "no duh" moment).
3) They are able to adjust the angle of their robot once they hang, so yet again, variable.
But even with slight problems, we were all stunned that they were not selected in Boston because
1) They guarantee a hanging bonus
2) They direct the ball into the near zone, who cares if it doesn't go into the goal???
I really don't think people in Boston understood the real value of a robot that guarantees balls returning to the near zone.
Just wait for Looking Forward's Championship predictions. I have a feeling they will be really well written and insightful. More than anything people will post up in this thread.
Right?
I don't have any real predictions, except to say that I'm expecting 910 to tear up Newton, as long as they have someone to provide balls into the near zone.
Akash Rastogi
10-04-2010, 01:36
Also in response to questions about 125's robot...
I made sure to take some video evidence for you folks to prove that 469 isn't THE CHOSEN ONE, per say. Hehe. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzS9-M8Dcxg
sammyjalex
10-04-2010, 01:37
I have extensive predictions as my scouting obsession tends to drive me, but to avoid harassment from those teams I haven't seen to know how good they are this year or what they can do aside from records I will post my einstein predictions only. Keep in mind my third partner predictions are based on close to nothing for the most part, but I did simulate a full selection for my own personal amusement :) Also keep in mind while I did avoid my personal team loyalty optimism on my Einstein predictions I didn't on Archimedes. I understand my alliances of 148 359 358, 86 118 1612, 234 71 45, and 330 254 604 are all very very viable winners of Archimedes. It's so competitive I prefer to just assume my former team will strategize so well to get past them all and even 469 and 1114 in my "less realistic" predictions although possible. I apologize if the use of less realistic offends anyone. haha :rolleyes:
Archimedes: 25 341 103 over 148 359 358
Curie: 1114 469 2630 over 368 1676 1538
Galileo: 2056 217 1466 over 2016 1717 1696
Newton: 67 16 706 over 842 971 308
Einstein:
1114 469 2630 over 25 341 103
2056 217 1466 over 67 16 706
1114 469 2630 over 2056 217 1466
P.S. With the way this seeding system has worked out it shouldn't come as a surprise that I predicted all my division winners to be first seeds. (except Archimedes, but again it's so competitive and I have a great deal of bias toward the daisies as an alum. I mentioned that the first seed is 359 148 358 in my predictions for that division and logically, I believe that first seed would win the division as well but CMP strategies tend to surprise especially in a division like this. And yes, I do believe 103 will stay around this long. This is what I've found objectively scouting as a volunteer. I would hate for anyone to be offended, I am only trying to preemptively answer questions..which is prbably a bad idea.
Chris is me
10-04-2010, 01:47
My gut predictions for now, I'll do more detailed revisions and analysis later.
Newton: 177, 971, 125
Galileo: 2056, 217, 51
Curie: 469, 1732, 2775
Archimedes: 1519, 148, 1124
No predictions, but a question. Lets say Curie ends early and 1114-469- ? are teamed up before you make picks on the other fields. Do you biuld your alliance to win your field and hope it is good enough to bet the before mentioned alliance or do you build your alliance to beat super alliance and hope you are good enough to win your field? Are they the same thing?
Katie_UPS
10-04-2010, 16:20
If 1114 and 469 meet up (which they will unless someone else gets number 1 seed and freezes up picking) then the god-alliance will have greeted the earth and only super-strategy combined with super-teams will be able to maybe overthrow them.
If they don't then I'm hoping for 1732 to be the first Wisconsin team on einstein. :D
EDIT: I have minor bouts of Dyslexia with numbers.
Akash Rastogi
10-04-2010, 16:32
If 1114 and 496 meet up (which they will unless someone else gets number 1 seed and freezes up picking) then the god-alliance will have greeted the earth and only super-strategy combined with super-teams will be able to maybe overthrow them.
If they don't then I'm hoping for 1732 to be the first Wisconsin team on einstein. :D
Yea that 496 is a tough team.
:p
sammyjalex
10-04-2010, 16:34
No predictions, but a question. Lets say Curie ends early and 1114-469- ? are teamed up before you make picks on the other fields. Do you biuld your alliance to win your field and hope it is good enough to bet the before mentioned alliance or do you build your alliance to beat super alliance and hope you are good enough to win your field? Are they the same thing?
I, personally, am a strong advocate of the belief that 1114 and 469 will ally, but it is possible to beat them, just as I believe 469 can be beaten alone. I believe the alliance to get to Einstein with three robots adept at both pinning and midfield scoring will have a strong shot. If an alliance can effectively pin 469 in midfield for the entire 2.25 minutes, which has not yet been done but only valiently attempted best I believe by the killer bees and More martians, or both 469 and the third partner using one robot and the other two robots or even one can just quickly score from midfield starving 1114 of balls, this alliance can be possibly defeated. I don't believe you can build an alliance for your division separately from an alliance to win Einstein, you have to build the best possible alliance. In no way should the best possible alliance be thrown together without considering the versatility and full advantage of each partner on the alliance. From the captain to the third partner, every robot on the alliance can and should be dominant.
Katie_UPS
10-04-2010, 16:35
Yea that 496 is a tough team.
:p
Hush you.
(see updated post)
Grim Tuesday
10-04-2010, 18:30
I think that 365 will make a splash at Galileo. They are one of the best midfielder that I have seen in a long time--they have auto targeting that actually works.
As we say in Philly...GO MOE!
No predictions, but a question. Lets say Curie ends early and 1114-469- ? are teamed up before you make picks on the other fields. Do you biuld your alliance to win your field and hope it is good enough to bet the before mentioned alliance or do you build your alliance to beat super alliance and hope you are good enough to win your field? Are they the same thing?
I don't think that there is any team arrogant enough to try and do this. You have to build your alliance to win your field especially since you know that the 469 alliance can be defeated and won't necessarily make Einstein.
What would be cool, is to see 1114 on Einstein, squaring off against 2056 for the title. Win 2 regionals together this season (7 total, of 1114's 14 and 2056's 8), and face off on Einstein for all the marbles.
They played a few matches against each other at WAT and GTR, and 1114 consistently came out on top.
rcmolloy
11-04-2010, 00:11
I really don't think people in Boston understood the real value of a robot that guarantees balls returning to the near zone.
That's exactly what we do but we can also play other stratagies. It's difficult though Akash for teams to select just ball deflector teams. You really need to be more valuable than that. If you can hustle around the field during a match as well as deflect (us), it's not a bad choice. I hope we can get a good place on a great alliance in Archimedes this year!
Ian Curtis
11-04-2010, 00:19
From a historical standpoint:
If Buzz (175) doesn't win a division it will be the first time in a decade they finish the season without winning a regional/division or winning the Chairman's award. :ahh: (Curie)
Team Hammond (71) needs to make the Finals this year or in 2011 to keep the streak of never having a freshman class who didn't watch their robot compete in the World/National final match. :ahh: (Archimedes)
177 must make Einstein to extend their streak of an annual Einstein match to 5 years. :ahh: (Newton)
2056 has never lost a regional. That said, they have yet to make it to even the divisional finals in Atlanta. Is this the year? :ahh: (Galileo)
It will certainly be a fight to the finish! :)
Barry Bonzack
11-04-2010, 06:35
Guessing the winners is okay, but I challenge everyone to guess the entire eliminations bracket for all divisions. I refuse to acknowledge any criticism of my brackets until the criticizer posts his or her own.
The following are my predicted alliances, but I am not predicting which team in the alliance will be the alliance captain.
Newton
1. 16, 67, 226
2. 971, 1902, 2669
3. 525, 924, 1727
4. 910, 1868, 1922
5. 102, 343, 1718
6. 1592, 2377, 1619
7. 706, 801, 1073
8. 20, 868, 1208
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
4 3
Galileo
1. 217, 1466, 2056
2. 79, 188, 1717
3. 100, 365, 1058
4. 230, 1086, 2990
5. 56, 230, 2834
6. 271, 1625, 1714
7. 2016, 2122, 3138
8. 51, 433, 1305
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 3
Curie
1. 469, 1114, 2345
2. 1649, 1676, 1732
3. 27, 88, 1251
4. 1511, 1538, 1986
5. 111, 171, 2992
6. 40, 627, 2337
7. 368, 573, 2775
8. 191, 832, 1421
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-3
/ \
4 3
Archimedes
1. 254, 1319, 1918
2. 33, 148, 180
3. 201, 330, 359
4. 25, 341, 1583
5. 118, 234, 1987
6. 103, 1540, 375
7. 604, 1124, 1519
8. 86, 71, 2753
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-3
/ \
4 3
So I predict all 1st seeds to move to Einstein. If I were to rank these alliance from strongest to weakest, they would be in the following order:
1. Curie 469, 1114, 2345
2. Galileo 217, 1466, 2056
3. Archimedes 254, 1319, 1918
4. Newton 16, 67, 226
MamaSpoldi
12-04-2010, 09:37
Galileo
1. 217, 1466, 2056
2. 79, 188, 1717
3. 100, 365, 1058
4. 230, 1086, 2990
5. 56, 230, 2834
6. 271, 1625, 1714
7. 2016, 2122, 3138
8. 51, 433, 1305
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 3
Barry, thanks for thinking so much of Team 230 that you included us in 2 alliances (#4 and #5)... but I am pretty sure that they will not allow us to do that. :rolleyes:
Joe Ross
12-04-2010, 15:43
Here's my answer to Barry's challenge.
Newton
1 67 971 2415
2 1592 1718 706
3 1208 910 2137
4 842 16 1922
5 525 1551 558
6 2619 1902 1073
7 294 2771 226
8 868 177 308
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 6
Galileo
1 217 1625 51
2 2056 1717 100
3 188 3138 2122
4 1714 1305 694
5 1696 365 1466
6 1735 1086 271
7 63 1058 2016
8 78 230 56
1 2
\ 2 /
1-|-2
/ \
4 3
Curie
1 1114 469 386
2 1986 573 88
3 1732 1676 830
4 2337 111 624
5 27 2775 2410
6 2648 2345 1912
7 1421 231 368
8 2612 175 1511
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 3
Archimedes
1 25 33 604
2 148 1918 234
3 254 330 3280
4 118 71 341
5 70 2062 1519
6 359 997 1124
7 2574 1 201
8 190 1772 1629
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-3
/ \
4 3
If I were to rank these alliance from strongest to weakest, they would be in the following order:
1. Curie 1114 469 386
2. Newton 67 971 2415
3. Archimedes 25 33 604
4. Galileo 2056 1717 100
nikeairmancurry
12-04-2010, 15:46
Here's my answer to Barry's challenge.
Newton
1 67 971 2415
2 1592 1718 706
3 1208 910 2137
4 842 16 1922
5 525 1551 558
6 2619 1902 1073
7 294 2771 226
8 868 177 308
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 6
Galileo
1 217 1625 51
2 2056 1717 100
3 188 3138 2122
4 1714 1305 694
5 1696 365 1466
6 1735 1086 271
7 63 1058 2016
8 78 230 56
1 2
\ 2 /
1-|-2
/ \
4 3
Curie
1 1114 469 386
2 1986 573 88
3 1732 1676 830
4 2337 111 624
5 27 2775 2410
6 2648 2345 1912
7 1421 231 368
8 2612 175 1511
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 3
Archimedes
1 25 33 604
2 148 1918 234
3 254 330 3280
4 118 71 341
5 70 2062 1519
6 359 997 1124
7 2574 1 201
8 190 1772 1629
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-3
/ \
4 3
If I were to rank these alliance from strongest to weakest, they would be in the following order:
1. Curie 1114 469 386
2. Newton 67 971 2415
3. Archimedes 25 33 604
4. Galileo 2056 1717 100
Bold on the 1114/469 combination being beat in Finals of Curie!
Joe Ross
12-04-2010, 15:54
Bold on the 1114/469 combination being beat in Finals of Curie!
I'm not that bold ;-). The brackets go below the seeds.
waialua359
12-04-2010, 15:58
Joe,
One question.
Since no one will take us until late 2nd round, would you pick us? :rolleyes:
254, 330, 359.
Would we then take out Sean's alliance?:D
Wayne C.
12-04-2010, 21:01
Joe,
Would we then take out Sean's alliance?:D
one can dream ....... ;)
Also in response to questions about 125's robot...
I made sure to take some video evidence for you folks to prove that 469 isn't THE CHOSEN ONE, per say. Hehe. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzS9-M8Dcxg
125 isnt as good as 469 because 469's is more consistent and they are also good outside of directing balls, they can kick.
Here's my answer to Barry's challenge.
Newton
1 67 971 2415
2 1592 1718 706
3 1208 910 2137
4 842 16 1922
5 525 1551 558
6 2619 1902 1073
7 294 2771 226
8 868 177 308
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 6
Galileo
1 217 1625 51
2 2056 1717 100
3 188 3138 2122
4 1714 1305 694
5 1696 365 1466
6 1735 1086 271
7 63 1058 2016
8 78 230 56
1 2
\ 2 /
1-|-2
/ \
4 3
Curie
1 1114 469 386
2 1986 573 88
3 1732 1676 830
4 2337 111 624
5 27 2775 2410
6 2648 2345 1912
7 1421 231 368
8 2612 175 1511
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-2
/ \
5 3
Archimedes
1 25 33 604
2 148 1918 234
3 254 330 3280
4 118 71 341
5 70 2062 1519
6 359 997 1124
7 2574 1 201
8 190 1772 1629
1 2
\ 1 /
1-|-3
/ \
4 3
If I were to rank these alliance from strongest to weakest, they would be in the following order:
1. Curie 1114 469 386
2. Newton 67 971 2415
3. Archimedes 25 33 604
4. Galileo 2056 1717 100
I have only scouted Newton, but I am inclined to agree with all of your selections there.
waialua359
12-04-2010, 21:31
one can dream ....... ;)
Wayne,
If you're the #1 seed and its down to the last pick, we better be on your team (if we didnt get picked yet.);)
Its about time!
Norman J
12-04-2010, 21:35
I can definitely see 1114 seeding #1 on Curie and picking 469. While I am very pleased with your Archimedes prediction:D , I am not personally so confident of our ability to pull that one off. Archimedes is such a top heavy division that 25 picking us is as far from certain as you can get.
I do know that whichever 2 powerhouses team up on Archimedes, they will pick a strong defense bot, in anticipation of that Curie team. The defense bot will have to hold off 1114 to starve 469's loop. Kind of a tall order. So any good defense robot's out there on Archimedes, show the scouts of the powerhouses what you can do!
Wayne C.
12-04-2010, 21:48
Wayne,
If you're the #1 seed and its down to the last pick, we better be on your team (if we didnt get picked yet.);)
Its about time!
the pressure, the pressure...
actually we were talking today and I think it can be said that we have never seen as strong a division as this year's Archimedes. There are at least 20 great teams that will make tough alliances for the elimination rounds.
And while we thank those who have such confidence in us, it is no means certain that 25 will be a top seed. But we will CERTAINLY TRY ;)
We too look ahead to a possible 469-1114 alliance showdown. And we think we have a solution. But that remains to be seen.
WC :cool:
waialua359
12-04-2010, 21:57
the pressure, the pressure...
actually we were talking today and I think it can be said that we have never seen as strong a division as this year's Archimedes. There are at least 20 great teams that will make tough alliances for the elimination rounds.
And while we thank those who have such confidence in us, it is no means certain that 25 will be a top seed. But we will CERTAINLY TRY ;)
We too look ahead to a possible 469-1114 alliance showdown. And we think we have a solution. But that remains to be seen.
WC :cool:
OK......got it.
You would take us.;)
waialua359
12-04-2010, 22:02
I can definitely see 1114 seeding #1 on Curie and picking 469. While I am very pleased with your Archimedes prediction:D , I am not personally so confident of our ability to pull that one off. Archimedes is such a top heavy division that 25 picking us is as far from certain as you can get.
I do know that whichever 2 powerhouses team up on Archimedes, they will pick a strong defense bot, in anticipation of that Curie team. The defense bot will have to hold off 1114 to starve 469's loop. Kind of a tall order. So any good defense robot's out there on Archimedes, show the scouts of the powerhouses what you can do!
I respectfully differ in the opinion of the 3rd bot. I think the 3rd bot will exclusively be the striker......one that can score every ball that comes to the home zone.
After autonomous is over, the team that plays back will effectively have already kicked all 3 balls over and proceed to move balls out of the loop that the opposing alliance kicked into their far zone.
Then, the robot joins the current midfielder and the two powerhouse midfielders ensure (as much as possible) in getting balls that they score back to the strong striker in the front. It would be two on one vs. 1114 who will play the midfield while 469 loops balls (assuming that 469-1114 alliance occurs).
With this strategy, no one is playing defense.
The only way to beat a 469 alliance is to outscore them. There is no other way.
I can definitely see 1114 seeding #1 on Curie and picking 469. While I am very pleased with your Archimedes prediction:D , I am not personally so confident of our ability to pull that one off. Archimedes is such a top heavy division that 25 picking us is as far from certain as you can get.
I do know that whichever 2 powerhouses team up on Archimedes, they will pick a strong defense bot, in anticipation of that Curie team. The defense bot will have to hold off 1114 to starve 469's loop. Kind of a tall order. So any good defense robot's out there on Archimedes, show the scouts of the powerhouses what you can do!
First, I would LOVE to be on an alliance with 25 although I agree its defiantly depends on how everyone plays, and second this the job of guarding 469 has historically gone to us at our past compititions. I think that in order to play this role a robot needs to be on top of its game and can't have even the slightest trouble aquiring and kicking balls from the far zone. Only then can they succeed in stopping them (kind of).
The only way to beat a 469 alliance is to outscore them. There is no other way.
If you leave 469 by themselves, you will not outscore them. This is a fact. We have been at a district and states with them and have yet to have seen this work even once in the eliminations.
We too look ahead to a possible 469-1114 alliance showdown. And we think we have a solution. But that remains to be seen. WC :cool:
Many other teams have thought they have had a solution to 469 and yet they have still won all their competitions. Hopefully you guys have better luck, but then again thats what "remains to be seen" means :) . I would Love to see what you have planned but I suppose I'll have to wait until Atlanta:rolleyes: .
nahstobor
12-04-2010, 22:49
254 wins it all. It has to happen sometime.
Akash Rastogi
12-04-2010, 23:20
25, 254, 1519 win Archi
67, 971, 11 come out of Newton (hey I can dream if I want)
2056, 217, 694 take Galileo
Curie: 469, that terrible Canadaland team, 2648
Newton wins it all.
And then I wake up and see Curie receiving their medals.
.
sammyjalex
13-04-2010, 01:35
I've been tempted to post my outrageous predictions thanks to Barry's bold challenge. Like anyone's this is tainted with my perspective of strategy and skill and is of course optimistic forward my former team, but in no way am I fooling myself just hopeful. Also I think The Killer Daisy Resistance would be a pretty great name for the defensive alliance that shuts down the beast :) I'd love feedback.
Archimedes
25 254 103 SF
330 359 1218 QF
148 71 1612 QF
45 968 375 SF
118 176 1 QF
1918 1519 70 F
341 33 86 W
1124 234 358 QF
Curie
1114 469 2630 W
368 1676 1538 F
1251 88 192 SF
340 27 2612 SF
111 1511 2992 QF
2337 1732 1421 QF
2775 171 816 QF
191 573 1986 QF
Galileo
2056 217 1466 W
2016 1717 1696 F
100 1086 1305 QF
188 63 79 QF
694 56 263 SF
365 1625 51 SF
1058 1714 2036 QF
3138 230 271 QF
Newton
67 971 125 W
842 16 308 SF
910 1718 20 F
2377 868 1208 QF
1718 343 706 SF
1902 525 1551 QF
177 294 2771 QF
1922 1592 2619 QF
Einstein
1114 469 2630 SF
67 971 125 F
2056 217 1466 SF
341 33 86 W
Thank you. I guess I missed that. This is what is was supposed to be.
waialua359
13-04-2010, 02:28
I've been tempted to post my outrageous predictions thanks to Barry's bold challenge. Like anyone's this is tainted with my perspective of strategy and skill and is of course optimistic forward my former team, but in no way am I fooling myself just hopeful. Also I think The Killer Daisy Resistance would be a pretty great name for the defensive alliance that shuts down the beast :) I'd love feedback.
Archimedes
25 254 103 SF
330 359 1218 QF
148 71 1612 F
45 968 375 SF
118 176 1 QF
1918 1519 70 QF
341 33 86 W
1124 70 358 QF
Curie
1114 469 2630 W
368 1676 1538 F
1251 88 192 SF
340 27 2612 SF
111 1511 2992 QF
2337 1732 1421 QF
2775 171 816 QF
191 573 1986 QF
Galileo
2056 217 1466 W
2016 1717 1696 F
100 1086 2036 QF
188 63 79 QF
694 56 263 SF
365 1625 51 SF
1058 1714 2036 QF
3138 230 271 QF
Newton
67 971 125 W
842 16 308 F
910 1718 20 SF
2377 868 1208 QF
1718 343 706 SF
1902 525 1551 QF
177 294 2771 QF
1922 1592 2619 QF
Einstein
1114 469 2630 SF
67 16 706 SF
2056 217 1466 F
341 33 86 W
Nice, 2 Hawaii teams.
I think 2437 will make elims also from HI in their division.
** You also listed 2036 twice.
25 254 103 SF
330 359 1218 QF
148 71 1612 F
45 968 375 SF
118 176 1 QF
1918 1519 70 QF
341 33 86 W
1124 70 358 QF
This is quite impossible. #1, #4, #5, or #8 must be in the finals
Similarly, only one of #2, #3, #6, and #7 can be in the finals
ttldomination
13-04-2010, 07:24
The only way to beat a 469 alliance is to outscore them. There is no other way.
I think that you plan on outscoring 469, then you have your work cut out for you.
In MSC, the finalist alliance played galliantly, and gave the champions a run for their money. This was purely because 217 was dedicated to keeping balls out of 469's loop, and then 67 and 2612 would take care of the scoring.
I'm not going to try to be some of non-conformist, and say that Curie is not going to take it. 1114 by themselves are formidable, but paired with 469, they're nearly impossible to beat.
- Sunny
waialua359
13-04-2010, 07:46
I think that you plan on outscoring 469, then you have your work cut out for you.
In MSC, the finalist alliance played galliantly, and gave the champions a run for their money. This was purely because 217 was dedicated to keeping balls out of 469's loop, and then 67 and 2612 would take care of the scoring.
I'm not going to try to be some of non-conformist, and say that Curie is not going to take it. 1114 by themselves are formidable, but paired with 469, they're nearly impossible to beat.
- Sunny
Isolating this quote alone doesnt tell what I'm trying to convey.
I agree with your statements.
In re-watching the video clips, the defense played by 217, and then getting balls out of the far zone, was their strategy (obvious from the clips).
I'm saying why not do it doing auto, proceed straight to any balls shot over by opponents during auto when the match starts, then moving to the midfield for a 2 on 1 battle to get it to your striker.
I've seen it done at regionals but the problem is that there was always an average to less-than-average 3rd partner. At CMP, it might be a different story with stacked robots to choose from.
Even though teams claim that they know how to beat them, and the strategies were somewhat effective, the bottom line is it didnt work and 469 has won every regional they've attended, regardless of what good partners they had.:)
Dont get me wrong, a 1114-469 alliance wont be easy to beat, and I was one of the early ones that predicted a championship if either one is the #1 seed, for obvious reasons.
No offense to the other divisions, but with Archimedes as the deepest division, they have the best chance of having the best 1-2-3 punch to "try" and counter 460-1114. Its not that the other divisions dont have great teams, its just that getting 3 powerhouses together will be tougher than Archi.
Craig Roys
13-04-2010, 09:13
Isolating this quote alone doesnt tell what I'm trying to convey.
I agree with your statements.
In re-watching the video clips, the defense played by 217, and then getting balls out of the far zone, was their strategy (obvious from the clips).
I'm saying why not do it doing auto, proceed straight to any balls shot over by opponents during auto when the match starts, then moving to the midfield for a 2 on 1 battle to get it to your striker.
I've seen it done at regionals but the problem is that there was always an average to less-than-average 3rd partner. At CMP, it might be a different story with stacked robots to choose from.
Even though teams claim that they know how to beat them, and the strategies were somewhat effective, the bottom line is it didnt work and 469 has won every regional they've attended, regardless of what good partners they had.:)
Dont get me wrong, a 1114-469 alliance wont be easy to beat, and I was one of the early ones that predicted a championship if either one is the #1 seed, for obvious reasons.
No offense to the other divisions, but with Archimedes as the deepest division, they have the best chance of having the best 1-2-3 punch to "try" and counter 460-1114. Its not that the other divisions dont have great teams, its just that getting 3 powerhouses together will be tougher than Archi.
The problem is if you let 469 get more than 2 (maybe 3) balls in the loop without a defender, you cannot outscore them. If you are able to clear all balls out starving them, then you have another problem; 469 will come out of the tunnel and begin moving balls back into their zone - they are pretty maneuverable and have a great kicker. Then they will go back to the tunnel and you're back to the first problem. You cannot beat them without defending against them. It seems that about 3 things have to go right during a match to be able to beat them (which is possible), but now add to that that you have to be able to do this 2 out of 3 matches! 67, 217, and 2612 came very close to doing just that at MSC - a tie, a win, and two very close losses.
Joe,
Thanks for the props for some CT teams!! Us, Gaelhawks, Bobcats, Uberbots and Buzz all making elimns in your model. I'll take it!!:)
waialua359
13-04-2010, 14:50
The problem is if you let 469 get more than 2 (maybe 3) balls in the loop without a defender, you cannot outscore them. If you are able to clear all balls out starving them, then you have another problem; 469 will come out of the tunnel and begin moving balls back into their zone - they are pretty maneuverable and have a great kicker. Then they will go back to the tunnel and you're back to the first problem. You cannot beat them without defending against them. It seems that about 3 things have to go right during a match to be able to beat them (which is possible), but now add to that that you have to be able to do this 2 out of 3 matches! 67, 217, and 2612 came very close to doing just that at MSC - a tie, a win, and two very close losses.
Good points as I haven't seen enough footage of them playing the midfield.
Would one option be to play defense on them and prevent them from going back into the tunnel.
Also, based on the video clips, I can't tell if 217 is firing balls directly to their home zone directly or not. Because if they are, then I agree that it is a good strategy indeed.
The fact that you're saying only two balls in the loop to win with no defense is tough for "any" opposing alliance.
sammyjalex
13-04-2010, 15:07
At MSC, when 70 and 910 played 469 and 1918, it really seemed like, between the pinning and the pushing 469 was in submission to the opposing alliance...at least for 20 seconds :) They were tipped for 10 seconds and pushed around for many more. If an alliance is strong enough to be able to commit one robot to pinning 469 and especially strong enough to be able to pin 469 and the third robot defending the defender but primarily 469 for the 2.25 minutes while the other two robots are able to play 2 on 1 in or 2 on 0 in the home and middle zone and either starve the only free robot of balls or just keep it under a pick in the defending zone, then 469's alliance whoever that may be won't be able to score under much more effective circumstance than simply trying to outscore them or block their shots. However, to find a robot that can keep a robot like 469 pinned for an entire TWO matches is a heavy task to carry as a Curie alliance captain and even heavier to think of a robot that can play defense against two robots simultaneously so that there will be some kind of numerical advantage.This is why in my optimistic predictions I say that only three diverse robots with very strong defense and drives could forcibly outplay this alliance. The only way I could see this alliance of 469 and possibly 1114 losing is a whole lot of constant push battles keeping robots slow and balls out of the goal. It will not be a high scoring match like it the matches in MSC when Las Guerillas in some strange course of events find defeat.
I wish there was recording from 217's driver station during their defense against 469.(or maybe not) It was the most intense couple of matches i have ever seen and i was in the stands. I can't imagine what it was like behind the glass. First,your guessing which way the ball is going. Second, you have one ,maybe two of 469 parteners playing defense and cleaning up 469's misses. I am sure the conversation behind the glass was incredible.
reversed_rocker
13-04-2010, 18:07
I personally like Sammy's original prediction for newton. no bias of course :)
Wayne TenBrink
13-04-2010, 20:45
My limited prediction and some advice:
Curie - 1114, 469, and a striker to be named later.
Other divisions - Good alliances.
Everybody and his brother (or sister), having seen how close 67, 217, and 2612 came to solving 469 and winning MSC will do their best to follow the same basic approach. (I wouldn't try it myself, but we need to reach Einstein before we can test that theory)
Advice to 1114: If this is the case, you will probably spend a lot of time in the center zone trying to feed the loop, divert their ball supply, and slow down their primary scorer. You will have their #3 robot all over you every step of the way. This will happen all through Curie elimination rounds and even moreso when you get to Einstein (which I predict you will). Be sure to bring plenty of TFE coolant spray and some cooling fans. You will need them. You have a hard afternoon ahead of you.
Good luck to all teams. May your robots all hold together, and let the best teams win! It is a great honor to be part of this. See you all soon.
Norman J
13-04-2010, 20:49
Advice to 1114: If this is the case, you will probably spend a lot of time in the center zone trying to feed the loop, divert their ball supply, and slow down their primary scorer. You will have their #3 robot all over you every step of the way. This will happen all through Curie elimination rounds and even moreso when you get to Einstein (which I predict you will). Be sure to bring plenty of TFE coolant spray and some cooling fans. You will need them. You have a hard afternoon ahead of you.
No offense, but this is 1114. They have probably thought of everything all the rest of us have, and more.
Ken Streeter
18-04-2010, 19:10
I've been tempted to post my outrageous predictions thanks to Barry's bold challenge. ... I'd love feedback.
Archimedes
25 254 103 SF
330 359 1218 QF
148 71 1612 QF
45 968 375 SF
118 176 1 QF
1918 1519 70 F
341 33 86 W
1124 234 358 QF
OK, I don't usually put much stock in these predictions, but I just happened to notice that sammyjalex's predicted our three-team alliance for on Archimedes! I wonder how often that happens?!?
sammyjalex
18-04-2010, 20:27
Thank you very much for the compliment. I will admit that I very much follow FIRST in an obsessive manner and I am happy to see that one of my predictions was followed. I was surprised to see more weren't with the possibility and, it seemed, the advantage. As a side note, I didn't realize I had predicted that alliance until you said it, but in my bracket challenge I did predict that alliance advancing to Einstein. I guess I was that passionate about my predictions. ;)
And you know there's always the possibility you wanted to make my prediction come true. :D
I watched Archimedes on the webfeed and your robot really impressed me throughout the competition. Congratulations to your team on building such a great machine. Best of luck in the coming seasons and have a restful and productive off-season.
Sam
DonRotolo
18-04-2010, 21:42
I think that you plan on outscoring 469, then you have your work cut out for you.
Match 1 on Curie, Thursday afternoon. Done, and Done.
Still didn't help in the end, though.:(
CoachPoore
19-04-2010, 22:33
And you know there's always the possibility you wanted to make my prediction come true. :D
I watched Archimedes on the webfeed and your robot really impressed me throughout the competition. Congratulations to your team on building such a great machine. Best of luck in the coming seasons and have a restful and productive off-season.
Sam
Thanks for the compliments. We were very pleased with our alliance picks on Saturday. We would have loved to make your prediction completely accurate, but one of our alliance partners had mechanical problems in the 2nd and 3rd matches of the quarter finals so it wasn't to be. We have no regrets about our picks though - both 1918 and 70 were a pleasure to work with and I hope we get to do it again sometime.
Congrats on the Chairman's award - entirely deserved from what I've seen and heard of your team.
Noel
BrendanB
19-04-2010, 22:48
I've been tempted to post my outrageous predictions thanks to Barry's bold challenge. Like anyone's this is tainted with my perspective of strategy and skill and is of course optimistic forward my former team, but in no way am I fooling myself just hopeful. Also I think The Killer Daisy Resistance would be a pretty great name for the defensive alliance that shuts down the beast :) I'd love feedback.
Archimedes
25 254 103 SF
330 359 1218 QF
148 71 1612 QF
45 968 375 SF
118 176 1 QF
1918 1519 70 F
341 33 86 W
1124 234 358 QF
Thank you. I guess I missed that. This is what is was supposed to be.
WOW! Congratulations on predicting our alliance. Our team was very excited to play in the eliminations and place 5th in the most stacked division in Atlanta! Yes, it was disappointing to loss in the quarters, but there were so man high-powered matches it was honoring to even play with these teams in the eliminations and even just tie a match!
Congratulations on such a well deserved Chairmans award! You are truly an amazing FIRST team that everyone should and does look up too! :)
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.