Bag and Tag Events List

[JohnBoucher]

The list is up.
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010/09/bag-and-tag-and-so-much-more.html


Interesting Hartford is on the list.

[Bob Steele]

I was under the impression that Fed Ex was not participating this year for shipping (except perhaps for the championships)

At events that are not bag and tag are teams obligated to ship their robots?

Anyone know what's up?

[R.C.]

I'm extremely happy that bag n tag events have been expanded.

Fedex is not participating?

-RC

[EricH]

I don't know if you all remember, but last couple of years FIRST went over the amount of shipping donated by FedEx sometime around Championship. FIRST had to pay the rest. http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010/04/frc-live-robot-ship-show.html

If FedEx's shipping donation has been lowered, or even if it stays the same, the expansion of Bag-and-Tag will reduce the hit to FIRST's finances by extending the time that the donation lasts.

[BrendanB]

Nice to see New Hampshire on the list.

[Dale]

Bill's Blog states that FedEx doesn't pick up at bag and tag events. If an out of state team were to ship their robot to one of these events in a crate how do they then get it to their next venue? Do you have to use Shepard or its equivalent? If there were a FedEx donation this year (fingers crossed) that would seem odd and very expensive.

[EricH]

Bill's Blog states that FedEx doesn't pick up at bag and tag events. If an out of state team were to ship their robot to one of these events in a crate how do they then get it to their next venue? Do you have to use Shepard or its equivalent? If there were a FedEx donation this year (fingers crossed) that would seem odd and very expensive.
Try looking at Bill's Blog again. Particularly the following:
New this year, FRC will be working with teams that have to travel long distances to attend events that are now Bag & Tag. (For example last year teams from Brazil and the UK attended the NYC Regional). The details are still in the works, but don’t eliminate a Bag and Tag event just because your team lives too far away to drive to the event. FRCTeams@usfirst.org will work with individual teams to arrange shipping to Bag & Tag events depending on your circumstances. That's the second paragraph, right under the changes, emphasis mine.

Let's say that 330 is going to the Alamo Regional (just to pick a team/event). It's a good, solid 2-3 day drive. L.A. (330's home event) is not B&T, but Alamo is. 330 would contact FRC and get the procedure/shipping site. I'm guessing no bagging needed, provided that there is crate proof, but bagging would not hurt. Ship to Alamo via FRC procedure, ship to L.A. via FRC procedure (whatever that happens to be).

[Brandon Holley]

The list is up.
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010/09/bag-and-tag-and-so-much-more.html


Interesting Hartford is on the list.

Can someone repost the list here? Blogspot is blocked at work.

[Vikesrock]

Can someone repost the list here? Blogspot is blocked at work.

Here you go Brandon

Week One
March 3-5, 2011
Alamo Regional - San Antonio TX
BAE Systems Granite State Regional - Manchester, NH
Finger Lakes Regional - Rochester, NY
New Jersey Regional – Trenton, NJ

March 4-5
Kettering University District – Flint, MI
Traverse City District – Traverse City, MI

Week Two
March 10-12
Greater Kansas City Regional – Kansas City, MO
Pittsburg Regional – Pittsburg, PA

March 11-13
New York City Regional – New York City, NY

Week Three
March 17-19
Arizona Regional - Chandler, AZ
Oklahoma Regional – Oklahoma City, OK
Sacramento Regional - Davis, CA
Seattle Cascade Regional – Seattle, WA
Seattle Olympic Regional – Seattle, WA

March 18-19
Detroit District – Detroit, MI
West Michigan District – Allendale, MI

Week Four
March 24-26
Autodesk Oregon Regional – Portland, OR
SBPLI Long Island Regional – Hempstead, NY
Washington DC Regional – Washington, DC
Waterloo Regional - Waterloo, ON

March 25-26
Ann Arbor District – Ann Arbor, MI
Niles District (TBD) - Niles, MI

Week Five
March 31-April 2
Greater Toronto East Regional - Mississauga, ON
Greater Toronto West Regional - Mississauga, ON
MN 10,000 Lakes Regional – Minneapolis, MN
MN North Star Regional - Minneapolis, MN
Northeast Utilities FIRST Connecticut Regional – Hartford, CT
Silicon Valley Regional – San Jose, CA

April 1-2
Troy District – Troy, MI
Livonia District – Livonia, MI

Week Six
April 7-9
Colorado Regional– this date and location are still tentative
MI State Championship – Ypsilanti, MI
Virginia Regional – Richmond, VA

[JamesBrown]

I like the Idea of Bag and Tag, the only thing I don't like it that NH and CT are both bag and tag but Boston and WPI are not. I would have liked to see them all the same so teams could easily mix and match. It seems to complicate things a bit if you mix bag and tag and traditional shipping.

[JohnBoucher]

I like the Idea of Bag and Tag, the only thing I don't like it that NH and CT are both bag and tag but Boston and WPI are not. I would have liked to see them all the same so teams could easily mix and match. It seems to complicate things a bit if you mix bag and tag and traditional shipping.

Exactly. Should be interesting.

[Aren Siekmeier]

I like the Idea of Bag and Tag, the only thing I don't like it that NH and CT are both bag and tag but Boston and WPI are not. I would have liked to see them all the same so teams could easily mix and match. It seems to complicate things a bit if you mix bag and tag and traditional shipping.

Agreed. It's especially ineffective for teams going to a standard ship event, then a bag and tag, then another normal one. For example, 2175 is hoping (assuming funding and member availability) to go to Duluth Week 2, which is NOT Bag and Tag, then North Star Week 5, which IS Bag and Tag, and then Championships, which is obviously NOT Bag and Tag. The Bag and Tag event in the middle saves absolutely no shipping, just probably some drayage. In our case, it really doesn't make a difference that North Star is now Bag and Tag, unless we don't go to Duluth.

From my understanding, you pretty much have to bring in a bagged robot to a Bag and Tag event, unless you arrange with FIRST as a long-distance team to have it shipped. On the other hand, are you required to ship to regionals that are not bag and tag? It seems so, from the line

Teams will NOT be allowed to carry their robots in or out of any other events unless they receive special permission as outlined in
Section 4.5.9.

It seems that it would further FIRST's money saving in the shipping area if they allowed this, but perhaps it isn't feasible for other reasons (safety, etc.)

Also, from reading last year's manual, it looks like there are issues with back to back regionals that are not both bag and tag or standard shipping? Not that this applies to us...

[EricH]

Also, from reading last year's manual, it looks like there are issues with back to back regionals that are not both bag and tag or standard shipping? Not that this applies to us...
Other than getting the robot into/out of the crate for shipping... You have to have FedEx pick up the crated robot by the Tuesday after the B&T event and deliver it to drayage, which isn't a whole lot of time (1-2 days in transit). OTOH, you have to get the crate delivered to you and then open it, remove the bag, and haul that if the B&T event is the second one. Again, only a couple of days to ship the robot to where it needs to go.

[thefro526]

Oh, New Jersey is Bag and Tag.

I'm excited. :D

[Dale]

With the usual competition for slots at regionals when registation opens, I'd sure want to know in advance what kind of arrangements FRCTeams was proposing for a bag and tag event I was thinking of shipping to. There might be some arrangements we don't like the sound of or that don't work with our travel plans. I could imagine some venues where they would expect you to ship your robot to the corner of some donated warehouse, unpack your crate, rent a truck, bring the robot to the event and then reverse the process on the way out. Not our idea of fun!

Personally I think every regional should have a procedure for how inbound and outbound crate shipping works at their event published in advance. That way you could decide before using up your first choice regional pick if that was something you liked the sound of.

[Jessica Boucher]

I like the Idea of Bag and Tag, the only thing I don't like it that NH and CT are both bag and tag but Boston and WPI are not. I would have liked to see them all the same so teams could easily mix and match. It seems to complicate things a bit if you mix bag and tag and traditional shipping.

We had this same discussion here. I mean, doesn't WPI have confirmed precedent of shuttling in 40 or so teams into Harrington on an annual basis?

[Jon Stratis]

It seems to me that the most cost-effective way of shipping to bag and tag events might involve very little other than organization from FIRST. If a team was coming to 10,000 Lakes from out of state and wanted to ship, for example, it would make a lot of sense to pair them up with a local team attending the regional (for example, 2177 :) ). They ship their robot to our build space and we stick their crate in a corner. Being FIRST teams, they could trust us to take care of it once in our possession, better than they could the corner of some random warehouse being actively used for other things.

Then, having that local connection, the teams could meet at the build space before the doors open, the robot could be un-crated, and both team's robots stuck in the back of a truck to make the trip together. At the end of the regional, the reverse. The host team would then take the shipping papers and get the robot out to Fed-EX.

This method would be a great way for teams to work together and help each other out, form lasting bonds of friendship across the nation, and save FIRST a lot of headaches/money. They would just need a way for teams to volunteer to host and other teams to ask for volunteers. The teams could do the rest of the arrangements. At least, this would solve the worries Dale listed :)

[Bob Steele]

It seems to me that the most cost-effective way of shipping to bag and tag events might involve very little other than organization from FIRST. If a team was coming to 10,000 Lakes from out of state and wanted to ship, for example, it would make a lot of sense to pair them up with a local team attending the regional (for example, 2177 :) ). They ship their robot to our build space and we stick their crate in a corner. Being FIRST teams, they could trust us to take care of it once in our possession, better than they could the corner of some random warehouse being actively used for other things.

Then, having that local connection, the teams could meet at the build space before the doors open, the robot could be un-crated, and both team's robots stuck in the back of a truck to make the trip together. At the end of the regional, the reverse. The host team would then take the shipping papers and get the robot out to Fed-EX.

This method would be a great way for teams to work together and help each other out, form lasting bonds of friendship across the nation, and save FIRST a lot of headaches/money. They would just need a way for teams to volunteer to host and other teams to ask for volunteers. The teams could do the rest of the arrangements. At least, this would solve the worries Dale listed :)

This is a great idea. I would certainly be in favor of it!! If it works out and any distant team wants to come to Seattle we would be happy to do this for them.

My only question is whether the robot needs to be bagged inside the crate? To satisfy the intent of the rule I would expect that there would have to be some accounting of how long the robot was OUT OF THE BAG before crating... the easiest thing would be to just put the bagged robot in the crate.

??

R

[Jon Stratis]

According to the rules from last year (specifically section 4.8.2.2), where you attend a traditional regional followed by a bag and tag regional, you bag the robot at the end of the first regional, and then ship the bagged robot back to your workspace/school/wherever your team will be receiving it. This way, there is no ambiguity around how long the robot was out of the bag after shipping.

I would expect this to be no different. If you ship to a bag and tag regional, you will likely have to have the robot in the bag while in its crate being shipped. I highly doubt FIRST will overlook this in the rules... it's a fairly obvious situation, with them arranging shipping to bag and tag events for some teams.

[RoboMom]

Gosh, this is confusing.
Chesapeake and DC are back-to-back. One is NBAT (Not BAT, or is there an official term?), the other BAT.
The past two years the local folks have tried to help negotiate reduced shipping between these venues 35 miles apart.
Lots of teams with questions and hope there is some guidance before Sept. 30. Shipping costs are always one of the decision points in choosing an event.

[JesseK]

Hopefully this is simply a year of transition for shipping; it's one of those changes to the fundamental way we've done something 'forever', is painful to change, but is quite necessary from many perspectives. Like bumpers. Hopefully next year there will be more regional continuity, or at least an established and efficient way to go between BAT and NBAT.

[buildmaster5000]

Gosh, this is confusing.
Chesapeake and DC are back-to-back. One is NBAT (Not BAT, or is there an official term?), the other BAT.
The past two years the local folks have tried to help negotiate reduced shipping between these venues 35 miles apart.
Lots of teams with questions and hope there is some guidance before Sept. 30. Shipping costs are always one of the decision points in choosing an event.

Seeing that DC, VA and chesapeake are all not back to back to back like last year, is a good thing. I believe that you can bag your robot at Chesapeake, and bring it to DC in a truck. That should reduce shipping costs (If FedEx is still a sponsor, it should be free) so you can do two regionals.

[Aren Siekmeier]

Lots of teams with questions and hope there is some guidance before Sept. 30. Shipping costs are always one of the decision points in choosing an event.

The last email blast had some hopeful implications of team support just before registration opens.

Extended Team Support Hours: In order to better assist teams during initial registration, Team Support representatives will be available at 1-800-871-8326 ext. 0.until 8 PM EST on 9/27-9/29.

Since this is before registration opens on the 30th, hopefully any teams that have big potential problems with shipping can get things worked out before registration opens.

edit: see this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=86936

[Chris is me]

So if I'm going crate -> bag for an event, I have to ship a bagged robot to some location, take the bagged robot out, and bring it bagged to that event? I can't just take it?

That's really dumb. What cost savings is there in that?

[Jon Stratis]

Chris -

The "official" position has always been that everything ships. You ship to your first event, from your first to your second, from second to championship, from championship home (for example). It's been possible to get exceptions in the past - if you don't qualify for championship, for instance, you could get an exception and take your robot+crate home with you from your last event of the season. (Section 4.5.9 of the 2010 manual)

Hopefully, with the dramatic increase in bag and tag events, and the huge likelihood that a large number of teams will be attending both BAT and traditional events, they'll change the way the exception process works. Yes, you need to ship to traditional events, but they should allow exceptions if its your last event OR if your next event is bag and tag.

It would cut down on shipping costs, and probably make things easier for the teams.

[Chris is me]

Ah. If exceptions will be given out for that sort of thing I'll be okay with it. My team has the potential to be "right on the bubble" funding wise between one and two events this year, and if we could save on shipping by bagging to CT or Waterloo we would probably do either event second after WPI.

[Jon Stratis]

Keep your fingers crossed :) The only question is... when will teams know when the shipping/bagging requirements are this year? I imagine, with the economy the way it is, there are a lot of teams in your position - maybe not quite able to attend a second event, and saving money on shipping would allow them that opportunity... But they would have to know before the events they want to attend fill up.

Of course, my previous post was pure speculation and wishful thinking... FIRST could decide not to change the rules at all and make you ship home from that first traditional event (section 4.8.2.2 in the 2010 manual).

[RoboMom]

New NEMO resource paper on Bag and Tag Tips. These hints may be helpful, but teams need to monitor updates in official game manual for 2011.
http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm

[KathieK]

Save the Date!
Senior Mentor Call 12/9 @ 7 PM EST: The next Senior Mentor call will take place on Thursday, December 9th @ 7 PM. The call topic is Bag and Tag Best Practices, and the call will be hosted by Kathie Kentfield, FIRST Senior Mentor; and Frank Merrick, Deputy Director, FRC. A call outline, as well as call-in information is available here: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=10124

[onecoolc]

This is a great idea. I would certainly be in favor of it!! If it works out and any distant team wants to come to Seattle we would be happy to do this for them.

Oh, our team may or may not need to take you (or another team) up on that, actually. We're coming into Seattle for Olympic from Idaho. We've never done a BAT event before, and it's our only regional this year. I don't know how the team/our Coach will decide to to handle this whole thing yet, of course. I guess a lot of it depends on the stance FIRST takes, and what sort of procedures or help they'll be putting into place.