View Full Version : 2011 Red Herring #1
pandamonium
03-11-2010, 09:57
Oh? Really? Is there some documentation or policy statement that says that is the case?
I'm just sayin'....
.
I wonder how well it could pick up one of these:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mCdS4AIyL._SS500_.jpg
-dave
.
I believe that the above two posts by Dave should be looked into. Probably not an actual clue but could be fun to discuss and who knows maybe we can get him to drop another red herring or two :)
Anyone remember what the game piece was from the very first FIRST game? Isn't there some sort of anniversary thing going on this year?
blackiceskier
03-11-2010, 10:16
The game piece from Maize craze from the first FIRST game way back in 1992 was tennis balls yes, but would they really do something that simple again where its very simple to pick up. Every one knows how to hoard a bunch of small game elements and hold them from both FTC 2009-2010 hot shot and from FRC 2009 the dreaded L word
pandamonium
03-11-2010, 10:32
Tennis balls are not necessarily easy. they could make the game difficult by limiting the way the robots can interact with them, shooting, pushing, lifting, dumping. Making rules restricting possession or #'s. The field could be full of dozens of them making it difficult to drive.
the clue could be in the PENN
note all were found using Wikipedia
John Penn (engineer) (1805–1875), British marine engine engineer, invented lignum vitae bearing for propellor shafts = WATER GAME jk lol
Penn Jillette, member of the comedy and magic duo Penn & Teller
could mean this years game ______ Illusion or ______ Magic
"The "Curse of Billy Penn"
Atop Philadelphia City Hall stands a statue of William Penn, sculpted by Alexander Milne Calder, which is 37 feet (11 m) tall.[111] From City Hall's completion in 1881 until 1985, when One and Two Liberty Place were constructed along Sixteenth Street, an unwritten agreement had existed among the city's planners that no building in Philadelphia should ever stand higher than the hat atop Penn's statue, 548 feet above the intersection of Broad and Market Streets at Penn Square, the central square of Philadelphia's five main squares.[citation needed]
The "Curse of Billy Penn" allegedly haunted the statue after the completion of Liberty Place. No Philadelphia major professional sports team captured a national championship for more than twenty years. So during the "topping off" ceremony of the Comcast Center on June 18, 2007, Bill Hankowsky of Liberty Property Trust placed a small statue of William Penn on the topping beam. "We don't believe in the myth, but to be safe we've added the statue of Billy Penn to the top of the Comcast Center," said Hankowsky at the time.[112] The following year the Philadelphia Phillies won the 2008 World Series, the first national championship for a Philadelphia professional sports team since 1983, when the Philadelphia 76ers captured the NBA championship."
could mean height restriction
Peter Matteson
03-11-2010, 10:34
I've been asking for a small game object that we have to mive in bulk like this for years. It's one of the few items that would force teams to reconsider the way they design game object manipulation devices.
New challenge = good game shake up
Tennis balls aren't easy. There is potential for a great many of them in last year's robot dimensions, and they will easily jam when in large hoppers.
If tennis balls are indeed this year's game piece, there may be some design concepts of interest from both the VRC and the FTC robots of 2009-2010.
JamesCH95
03-11-2010, 11:17
Everyone seems to be assuming that it's a regulation sized tennis ball. What if it was this (http://www.amazon.com/Penn-Giant-Tennis-Ball-inch/dp/B00124KTZO)? Or this (http://www.amazon.com/Penn-Jumbo-Tennis-Ball-Softball/dp/B000ZJRMO8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1288797269&sr=1-2-fkmr0)? Or even this (http://www.countryclubsupply.com/servlet/Detail?no=8468)? Maybe they are mixed together and we have to sort them out!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :eek:
Edit: Dave's picture looks suspiciously like the 4" size...
Chris is me
03-11-2010, 11:29
That's exactly the same picture. Dave's picture isn't of a normal tennis ball, but a 4 inch tennis ball. That has to be significant...
Note also that dave left out his signature in the first post, leaving 4 "sentences". There's that number 4 again.
A game piece that is economical and widely accessible across many different markets, geographic regions, and cultures?
Naw, that's not the GDC's style.
synth3tk
03-11-2010, 12:35
It may not necessarily be 4" game pieces, but as Chris pointed out, the number 4 is shaping up to be an important number.
The last time a number kept cropping up in the "hints" that Dave and others released, it was 3. At the time, only two teams on an alliance were on the field at the same time, no matter if the alliance was 2 or 3 teams. This was back in late 2004.
In 2005, there were 3-team alliances on the field for the first time, the game was Triple Play, and a single scoring object was worth 3 points (unless it met certain conditions), and there was a multiple of 3 places to score.
We'll see what rabbit trails the rest of the red herrings lead us down.
JamesCH95
03-11-2010, 12:56
Earth, wind, fire, water :eek:
Possibly 4 robots per alliance? o.O
Only 4 game pieces?
Four zones to the playing field?
Many things could be four...
Chris is me
03-11-2010, 13:07
The last time a number kept cropping up in the "hints" that Dave and others released, it was 3. At the time, only two teams on an alliance were on the field at the same time, no matter if the alliance was 2 or 3 teams. This was back in late 2004.
In 2007, the number "5" was an important part of the game hint. 2007 was a first anniversary year, and the 5th season of FRC featured a game with inner tubes, the 2007 game piece.
If you use the same methodology as the previous hint, references are made to Hexagon Havoc, a 1v1[v1] game with 8 and 24 inch circumfrence balls. In the final rounds when the game went from 3 teams to 2 team matches, there were 4 of the 24 inch balls on the field.
Other instances of the number 4: goals in 2004 (widely regarded to be one of the best FIRST games), big balls in 2001, periods in 2006, balls in 2008.
Greg Young
03-11-2010, 13:22
You're getting pretty far afield here with the numerology.
It's actually a regulation tennis ball. The 4 is a reference to the 4" inside diameter of the 10' tall pipe that serves as a goal.
I should mention that you have to climb the pipe to pull down the sleeve (80 lbs required for activation) that opens the cover so you can drop the tennis ball in.
It's all very simple.
Joe Schornak
03-11-2010, 13:53
Earth, wind, fire, water :eek:
Heart!
It's a Captain Planet-themed game!
pandamonium
03-11-2010, 13:53
I am not following this 4 fixation numerology thing i think we are straying off track. Until 4 comes up again lets table this for now and focus on the tennis ball or the Penn.
Tennis courts have a large net dividing the court in half. Maybe the field will have a net or wall. Tennis courts also have certain lines and serving restrictions. Perhaps there will be a tennis like scoring system.
30 - Love :)
Dustin Shadbolt
03-11-2010, 14:04
And so it begins :).
JohnBoucher
03-11-2010, 14:09
Earth, wind, fire, water :eek:
Possibly 4 robots per alliance?
Number of spots are set for champs. I doubt the alliance will change from 3
Chris is me
03-11-2010, 14:53
Number of spots are set for champs. I doubt the alliance will change from 3
The number of spots accommodates 4 regional winners at present; the fourth slot is just rarely used since it is for the backup team. I do not think FIRST has lowered pre-registration enough to accomodate for this though.
Bjenks548
03-11-2010, 15:02
He could also be giving us a hint to what its not... not a sphere. If you look at the last 3 games they have all been spheres. This means that no current students will have worked with anything other then spheres (I know a ton of mentors have been around 4+ years).
Again with the not theory, they said they would not be celebrating the 20th anniversary of FIRST (I thought i read that somewhere) but would wait for the 25th anniversary celebration. Just the sort of thing to throw us in the complete opposite direction.
pandamonium
03-11-2010, 15:42
While looking back I came across the letter sent out to teams at the end of August here is a few lines:
We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists.
Turns and diabolical twists + Tennis balls = MAZE CRAZE 2.0
I just came across this. Dave said it in an old 2004 thread in referance.
p.s. sometimes the best hints are the most obvious.
Jon Stratis
03-11-2010, 15:57
If we're going with the tennis ball theory, I want to throw this (http://www.petco.com/product/6937/PETCO-Mini-Tennis-Ball-Dog-Toys.aspx) into the ring for consideration...
http://s.petco.com/Assets/product_images/8/800443093184C.jpg
1-inch tennis balls + readily available at most pet stores + insanely cheap = 100's of them on the field. And in true GDC fashion, none of the companies involved would know about it before hand, or even really be aware of FIRST... shortages abound!
pandamonium
03-11-2010, 15:58
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)
Field reset would get a little interesting, if that were the case.
nighterfighter
03-11-2010, 16:08
Field reset would get a little interesting, if that were the case.
And that's part of the game... The field is never reset!
Muhahaha!
JamesCH95
03-11-2010, 16:10
While looking back I came across the letter sent out to teams at the end of August here is a few lines:
We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists.
Turns and diabolical twists + Tennis balls = MAZE CRAZE 2.0
All I can think of is seeing robots spin on a merry-go-round ...
Dustin Shadbolt
03-11-2010, 16:12
While looking back I came across the letter sent out to teams at the end of August here is a few lines:
We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists.
Turns and diabolical twists + Tennis balls = MAZE CRAZE 2.0
Nice.... That would be a blast.
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)
cant see that happening, poses too big a safety hazard to field crew and humans setting up and removing robots. runs a high risk of someone stepping on a ball and twisting their ankle and possibly dropping 120+ pounds of robot on themselves or someone else
pandamonium
03-11-2010, 16:42
Here is that entire letter:
Good Afternoon Teams,
The GDC came, they saw they redesigned. Calum and Paul weren’t able to join us this weekend, so some of the aesthetics of the design may change once they get their hands on it, but we think we have the 2011 game. We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists. Robots will be required to have bumpers, so buy your pool noodles now while they are still in season. (And no, this requirement has nothing to do with the bruise on Carla’s ankle.)
We built a robot out of parts expected to be in the 2011 kit and Ryan tried it out on the prototype field. It did what was expected. I bet you didn’t know we do that to make sure the kit can accommodate the game.
We were still making changes as of 2PM on Sunday, so there is always a risk that the game will change again (We are engineers after all. We always want to make one more improvement followed by just one more and just one more after that.) But I’m excited, it looks like we have the basics of the 2011 game. Now the FRC staff and I just have to find game pieces, work on CAD drawings, bid out the major construction, build field elements, build road cases, get the manual on line and a million other little things.
Oh, and they loved the pepper bacon and Haagen-Dazs.
131 days to Kickoff
See you then!
So one of the members bruised her ankle while testing the game. WHat if she slipped on a tennis ball? Perhaps there are raised platforms that are ball free that humans can walk on for moving robots on and off of the field and robots can drive on as well.
JohnBoucher
03-11-2010, 16:43
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)
What a way to tear up a drivetrain !
in connection to the 4 discussion and the tennis ball, maybe it means that we will be playing on a field equivalent to a full size tennis court since it is about .4 times larger than a standard frc field
RoboDesigners
03-11-2010, 18:28
Ok, I'm not on an FRC team, and this is my first "Game Hint" season while being on CD, so some of my ideas may not be that great...
General ideas:
1. Ball bucket - Game field has 6' (or higher) polycarb walls and is filled to 3' with different sized tennis balls (hint 2). The game is cooperative, with each set of alliances trying to empty as many tennis balls over the side as possible. In the finals, the team are competitive, dumping as many tennis balls into the other alliance station as possible. :D
2. Robots must be made of LEGOs (hint 1) or some other odd material. :]
3. Robots must play tennis
4. 4 teams allowed on the field at a time. (2 per alliance)
5. From my general impression of this forum, dLavery seems to be the type who would post cryptic things for no reason, therefore, my best idea is that he just wanted to have fun and make us go crazy speculating... :)
5. From my general impression of this forum, dLavery seems to be the type who would post cryptic things for no reason, therefore, my best idea is that he just wanted to have fun and make us go crazy speculating... :)
We have a winner!
He could also be giving us a hint to what its not... not a sphere. If you look at the last 3 games they have all been spheres. This means that no current students will have worked with anything other then spheres (I know a ton of mentors have been around 4+ years).
Again with the not theory, they said they would not be celebrating the 20th anniversary of FIRST (I thought i read that somewhere) but would wait for the 25th anniversary celebration. Just the sort of thing to throw us in the complete opposite direction.
But we have worked with different varieties of spheres (different sizes and textures). I hardly consider the 2009 orbit balls as balls. As much as I would love to work with something that I cannot find the diameter of, I can't help but notice that the game pieces are getting progressively smaller.
I also don't mean to hijack the thread, but I know it'll come up eventually: http://www.pennreels.com/ (third link that comes up in a Google search for "Penn" - the first two were for the University of Pennsylvania). While I agree with what Chris said in another thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=979370&postcount=436), and that it's probably just a tennis ball and brand has nothing to do with the hint, I do think that involving reels would make for an interesting game (entanglement issues aside).
Penn? Pens? Playpen?
Reminds me of this XKCD:
http://xkcd.com/150/
Odd "grownup" references aside, could be something to do with fences or walls? Or contained areas?
Maybe even a raised container above the field, something like this but a bit sturdier? http://www.target.com/A401010-Balloon-Net-10x10/dp/B000Z55P1O/
4? 4 teams? Maybe back to a 2v2 game? Doubles tennis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_tennis_match)?
Or maybe something to do with the felt texture of tennis balls?
...dLavery seems to be the type who would post cryptic things for no reason...
Correct. (Ever hear of his morse code from last year?)
My thoughts on 4:
Pure cooperation (think 2001) with 4 teams per match and alliance.
-Maybe its making us think of this game, where teams specialized.
2004 game (FIRST Frenzy)
-Small balls
-Large balls
-Stationary goals
-Movable goals
-multi-level platform
-Hang from the bar
This means that we could have to do a lot of different things, and each team will have to specialize.
4 ways to score (Maybe 4 goals of various levels of difficulty)
4 game pieces (balls of 4 different sizes)
My thoughts on tennis ball:
It's not a ball game
It's not tennis balls
The robots are tethered like in Maize Craze (I certainly hope not)
Corn (Maize Craze again)
My thoughts overall:
Lots and lots of game pieces, possibly of various sizes
Multiple ways to score
Specialization, like the 2001 and 2004 games?
About the GDC's "Diabolical Twists": the 2001 game was called "Diabolical Dynamics".
About the bruise on Carla's ankle: The bumper level is back down where it used to be, no bumps. (the current bumpers are just below knee level, not around ankle level)
Apparently the kit can accommodate the game, so the game won't be unachievable for a kitbot (In 2009, you couldn't score if you were just a kitbot. In 2010 and 2008, you could).
Cyberphil
03-11-2010, 19:04
I have a speculation for you all:
What if it was not the actual ball he was referring to, but rather the stringy material on the outside of the ball. I am sure that material would be easily picked up by hook Velcro.
Lets see how far this goes. . . .
I have a speculation for you all:
What if it was not the actual ball he was referring to, but rather the stringy material on the outside of the ball. I am sure that material would be easily picked up by hook Velcro.
Lets see how far this goes. . . .
two things come to mind with the velcro idea. this children's game with these frog gun things that have tongues that shoot out when you pull the trigger, and they have velcro on the end of them that you use to snag these little flies (I'm looking for a picture, but I can't find it), and then this (http://www.news.wisc.edu/13727)
two things come to mind with the velcro idea. this children's game with these frog gun things that have tongues that shoot out when you pull the trigger, and they have velcro on the end of them that you use to snag these little flies (I'm looking for a picture, but I can't find it), and then this (http://www.news.wisc.edu/13727)
I don't know of that children's game, but I do know of this (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2716917817_55e91504bb.jpg?v=0) one. For those not familiar with it...it's like playing catch with a baseball, except the "mitts" are circles with hook velcro to latch onto the tennis ball, which is what is being thrown around. Not sure how you could incorporate that into a game safely, though.
Remember the game hint from 2009? fish? water game no. (sorry guys) 2010 ball return part? tracks? no. Dave always has a hidden message, and it seems to be about the field. 4" bumps on the field this year giant dome in the center? to me that would be pretty cool.
What a way to tear up a drivetrain !
Who said anything about having a drivetrain?
Bjenks548
03-11-2010, 20:20
But we have worked with different varieties of spheres (different sizes and textures). I hardly consider the 2009 orbit balls as balls. As much as I would love to work with something that I cannot find the diameter of, I can't help but notice that the game pieces are getting progressively smaller.
I have to disagree, when we looked took the orbit balls as compressible spheres. In fact I can only think of one team (1918) that used a hook for their ingester to manipulate them in any other way then a compressible ball.
Who said anything about having a drivetrain?
since the 4 clearly stands for 4" of water the robots have to float in meaning we wont need drive trains :rolleyes:
Cyberphil
03-11-2010, 20:35
You guys are still thinking balls. I am thinking much more broad.
I am picturing multiple shapes (Cubes, Spheres etc) covered in that material. Maybe I am just speculating too much. Thats probably the case. :D Haha!
RoboDesigners
03-11-2010, 20:45
Oh, I got another one...
(I know this is pointless, but... :))
Ok, here goes:
1. A tennis ball is a sphere.
2. Spheres are one of the three "special shapes" that Archimedes studied
3. The FIRST logo is based on those three "special shapes"
4. The number 4 is cropping up everywhere
Therefore, the game will be played with 4 game items:
1. Sphere (circle)
2. Pyramid (triangle)
3. Cube (square)
4. A foam construction of the word "FIRST"
Side note:
What if the GDC uses these threads for designing future games? That could be scary! :)
Side note 2:
Have any of dlavery's comments/hints ever made sense (relating to the actual game)?
Katie_UPS
03-11-2010, 22:05
My silly cents:
In 07 one game hint was the arm for the center rack... a game piece.
In 08 one game hint was the tortoise and the hare statues in Boston. That game was a "race"
In 09 one game hint was the fish. The MOON fish. LUNAcy.
In 10 the game hint was the middle gate, and the ball return... Both were parts of the field.
*Note: The GDC has no real consistency.*
Judging off that, my guess is a game piece. Unless we want to go the lunacy route, and assume the name of the object has something to do with the game. Tennis-ball surface, anyone? Reverse lunacy-TOO MUCH FRICTION TO EVEN MOVE.
Brandon_L
03-11-2010, 22:05
Oh boy. Its this time of year already?
Side note 2:
Have any of dlavery's comments/hints ever made sense (relating to the actual game)?
Yep. Er, only the ones I remember at least.
Fish - If I remember correctly it was a moon fish. Lunacy=Moon theme, floor=low gravity simulation
2010 picture of section of the field - showed the turf we were going to play on, as well as showing what WASN'T in that part of the field (bumps, tower)
All I remember off the top of my head
Side note 2:
Have any of dlavery's comments/hints ever made sense (relating to the actual game)?
Yes and no. His red herrings in 2006, in hindsight, fit the game perfectly. Someone actually came close to the game, but was still quite far out. (A couple of the hints were actually a link to the un-diabolically-twisted game idea, if you followed them right. One was placed in a caption contest, run by the guy who posted the "inspiration"...)
Of course, this only made sense after a couple days after Kickoff...
On the official hints:
2009 also had a riddle that told the type of surface, the location of the maker of the game objects, the existence of the trailers (again, between the lines), and something else, I forget what.
2008 had 3 hints; the last one was the letters for the encryption key (but not the symbols) and included a reference to one of the actions. I forget what the first one was.
2006 was a riddle in the shape of the game piece telling about bumpers, lights, and other miscellaneous details.
2003 was the scoring algorithm.
2004 was a line from "Stairway to Heaven" telling about the stairs and "heaven" (10' high bar) in the middle of the field.
2005 was a riddle having to do with the number 3 and the game name.
in connection to the 4 discussion and the tennis ball, maybe it means that we will be playing on a field equivalent to a full size tennis court since it is about .4 times larger than a standard frc fieldWith FIRST already struggling to fit enough fields inside the arena in St. Louis, I doubt the physical fields will grow.
2008 had 3 hints; the last one was the letters for the encryption key (but not the symbols) and included a reference to one of the actions. I forget what the first one was.
The first hint from 2008 was the IR sensors that were shipped out to a few teams (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60132&highlight=game+hint).
The second hint, which was already mentioned in this thread, was a set of coordinates pointing to a statue which referenced a race
pandamonium
03-11-2010, 23:31
06-For aim high a clue was a "shovels show" one person figured it out! David spade... Just shoot me = shooting game (granted he didn't know he came up with it though)
many people figured out the race and the moonfish
a few people got the tube clue from a picture of the animation that was sent out and the soccer ball from the picture of the track mount that was sent out...
if Dave did give us the game piece it was probably for one of two reasons
#1. he knew we would over analyze it and possibly even overlook it
#2. This game is so crazy that he could ship us all tennis balls maybe even come right out and tell us that this game uses them but we would still not have the slightest idea of the crazy game concept.
*I was in the 5th grade classroom of the lego team I help with and had an idea so simple it hit me. The little chairs have tenis balls on the feet so they slide and don't make noise* = Moveable Goals!
blackiceskier
03-11-2010, 23:34
I have a speculation for you all:
What if it was not the actual ball he was referring to, but rather the stringy material on the outside of the ball. I am sure that material would be easily picked up by hook Velcro.
Lets see how far this goes. . . .
a spin off of this could be the field is the felt of the tennis ball kind of like the fish hint for lunacy was a reference to the slick field, maybe the field is going to be felt like
Just a FTCers opinion on the topic
r2davis2
04-11-2010, 00:21
Okay so here's a rather long and detailed trail of clues I've picked up so bear with me.
1. Penn ball - Sean Penn actor
2. Sean Penn - famous for Rainman
3. Rainman obsesses of "who is on first base"
4. when one types "first base" into google the 4th result is http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=first_home (http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=first_home) which is the autodesk page for FIRST robotics.
Thats were I ran out of clues but maybe someone else can pick up the trail, and yes I realize this is a huge stretch.
r2davis2
04-11-2010, 00:30
Okay so this one's a stretch, but does have some interesting coincidences, so here goes.
1. Penn ball = Sean Penn
2. Sean Penn is famous for his acting in Rainman
3. In Rainman Penn's character is obsessed "who is on first base"
4. when one types first base into google the 4th result is http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=first_home the autodesk FIRST robotics home
5.(this is where it gets even more sketchy) when you go under training resources two names are mentioned, Phil Dollan and Ted Boardman, and when these names are searched on google the 4th result is on of their blogs (http://www.tbmax.net/) which has a google description that mentions FIRST and the Georgia Dome
Thats where I lost the "trail" if you can call it that, but maybe someone else can pick up another clue from this chain of "coincidences".
synth3tk
04-11-2010, 00:45
if Dave did give us the game piece it was probably for one of two reasons
#1. he knew we would over analyze it and possibly even overlook it
#2. This game is so crazy that he could ship us all tennis balls maybe even come right out and tell us that this game uses them but we would still not have the slightest idea of the crazy game concept.
Running with #2, we wouldn't know what was legal. For all we know, we may be able to herd the balls, but not shoot them. Or, we may not be allowed to use vacuum/suction. There's just way too many factors of an FRC game to make any assumptions.
06-For aim high a clue was a "shovels show" one person figured it out! David spade... Just shoot me = shooting game (granted he didn't know he came up with it though)
Actually, the game hint for 2006 was as follows:
____Five bots tangling with pasta
A game piece obsessed with a shovel's show
__And seeing Montana's green heights
The breakdown:
5 bots: during 2 periods of the game, only 5 robots could be on a side of the field. 2 were playing defense, hence the tangling. Pasta referred to the pool noodles used in bumpers.
Shovel's show: Just Shoot Me
Montana's green heights: High target, marked with a green light that could be seen. For bonus points, Joe Montana was an NFL quarterback, who threw footballs during 4 game periods every time he played.
Dave also referenced a "fox in the henhouse" (game objects tended to scatter when a robot came through, and the robots ate the balls before shooting them) and "hovercraft and the English Channel" (nice wide space in the middle of the field that had to be crossed to score) prior to the 2006 Kickoff.
Courtneyb1023
04-11-2010, 08:27
Montana's green heights: High target, marked with a green light that could be seen.
That tennis ball looks suspiciously green-ish to me :)
Wayne TenBrink
04-11-2010, 13:39
Here's a radical thought: Maybe Dave was just wondering if the "universal robotic gripper" (different thread) with its smooth, high friction, vacuum forming, conforming skin could pick up something fuzzy, comparatively large, and flexible - like a tennis ball. He does have an inquisitive mind, after all. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the 2011 game.
But where's the fun in that???
pandamonium
04-11-2010, 14:14
The official game hint does not come out until December.
oops the first Dave comment in the first post was in reply to this post. which indicates that it may come early :)
Felt covered field with velcro wheels????
Felt covered field with velcro wheels????
Unless the velcro was loop side, the field surface would need replacing after one day--robots would damage it worse than the most damaging game played in 2002, 2vsFRC71 (which, BTW, 71's file cards had a tendency to win).
Now that's devious: Hook-side velcro as the field, with loop-side as robot drive material. Get the field damaging the robots for once!
The problem I see with a felt or "fuzzy" field is that the texture and "fuzziness" would seriously wear out over time.
The problem I see with a felt or "fuzzy" field is that the texture and "fuzziness" would seriously wear out over time.
im pretty sure no matter what the field surface (except water) would wear out over time. i remember in 09 hearing about how much new regalith was for driving on than used. and last year by the time the state championship came around im pretty sure the field had quite a few tape patches on it
S.P.A.M.er 17
04-11-2010, 16:34
I got it. Penn was referring to a game piece, but it was spelled wit an extra "n" on purpose to throw us off (making us think of tennis balls). This year's game is actually a writing contest! Our robots must write a "4" paragraph essay. The diabolical twist? The paper is on the back of opposing robots... (so that means we missed out in watching the GDC members and FRC Staff running around with a piece of paper taped to their back, while others tried write an essay on it.)
Except that Penn is a brand of tennis ball.
Either that, or robots must test the myth that the pen is mightier than the sword.
Travis Hoffman
04-11-2010, 20:22
All I've got to say is...
http://www.prebble.com/turbo04.gif
I got it. Penn was referring to a game piece, but it was spelled wit an extra "n" on purpose to throw us off (making us think of tennis balls). This year's game is actually a writing contest! Our robots must write a "4" paragraph essay. The diabolical twist? The paper is on the back of opposing robots... (so that means we missed out in watching the GDC members and FRC Staff running around with a piece of paper taped to their back, while others tried write an essay on it.)
That would be VERY interesting - to build that is! Uber boring to watch.
I think an american gladiators style game where two sides bombard each other with massive amounts of tennis balls would be an absolute blast!
That would be VERY interesting - to build that is! Uber boring to watch.
I think an american gladiators style game where two sides bombard each other with massive amounts of tennis balls would be an absolute blast!
...i guess we know what human players are gonna be doing now
I got it. Penn was referring to a game piece, but it was spelled wit an extra "n" on purpose to throw us off (making us think of tennis balls). This year's game is actually a writing contest! Our robots must write a "4" paragraph essay. The diabolical twist? The paper is on the back of opposing robots... (so that means we missed out in watching the GDC members and FRC Staff running around with a piece of paper taped to their back, while others tried write an essay on it.)
So FIRST will force us to learn how to write. Colleges already love FIRST students, but they'll be giving future engineering students an arm and a leg of scholarship money to come to their school because we'll ACTUALLY know how to write. From what I've heard*, engineering studentz dont hav gewd eenglish...
*and seen exhibited by others. As a journalism student, it's something that really bugs me.
PAR_WIG1350
04-11-2010, 22:52
...i guess we know what human players are gonna be doing now
Hiding:eek:
(I was the human player last year and there were enough flying/swinging objects then)
Of course, we all know the solution to that little writing challenge, right?
Rubber stamps. Write essay portions out beforehand, make rubber stamps of them, and have an ink roller on the robot. One hit from a 4-paragraph stamp pad should do the trick on every robot... That means that you spend the first minute stamping all three of your opponents and the second minute backed up against a wall protecting your back.
Cyberphil
04-11-2010, 23:46
Or a giant one of these:
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00mBeEOUsrEDkI/Self-Inking-Stamp-JJ01001-.jpg
Just run into the other bot, or have a button that engages it!
Going off some of the other ideas..
When I was in elementary school we played a game called "trash" where we would be split into two teams and each confined to our side of the line in the middle of the gym. When the coach shouted go, we would all race around trying to throw these balls from our side to the other side. The team with the most "trash" on their side at the end would lose.
Imagine a wall in the middle of the field, about three feet high or so, made of polycarbonate and the robots had to throw as much of their game pieces over the wall as possible. Maybe there would even be one opposing robot in your zone to make things interesting.
Just an idea really :)
Going off some of the other ideas..
When I was in elementary school we played a game called "trash" where we would be split into two teams and each confined to our side of the line in the middle of the gym. When the coach shouted go, we would all race around trying to throw these balls from our side to the other side. The team with the most "trash" on their side at the end would lose.
Imagine a wall in the middle of the field, about three feet high or so, made of polycarbonate and the robots had to throw as much of their game pieces over the wall as possible. Maybe there would even be one opposing robot in your zone to make things interesting.
Just an idea really :)
Clean Sweep, a VEX Robotics Competition game. Now scale it up...
Cyberphil
05-11-2010, 00:28
Hmm, interesting. . . Do you think FIRST would really use essentially the same game as the VRC? I would sure hope not. That does not make for much fun or innovation at all.
I think it would be a fun game, but it would be defeating the purpose of being on an FRC team.
I have more faith in FIRST than that, and I am sure they will come up with a fun and competitive game no matter what.
You guys are pretty much exactly describing the 2010 OCCRA robotics game. Except theres abunch of 10in balls and a 5ft chain link wall with a ramp in the middle to cross the the other side of the field. Balls are worth 1 on the other side of the field and there are also bonus balls which are worth 3 points. There is even clean sweeps. Actually the comp season is right now and its pretty fun to watch. Might be some videos on youtube. But anyway, the FIRST game probably wont be one that has recently been used in two other seperate robot games. Just saying.
HumblePie
11-11-2010, 06:39
Given how cryptic these things have been in the past, here goes some speculating from a newbie on this board..........
I don't think the tennis ball is meant to be a direct clue to the game pieces or the field. That would be too easy. I am, however, intrigued by the "Penn" label since they could have chosen any manufacturer, so why this one?
How about the fact that the University of Pennsylvania (founded in 1740, so no anniversary there) was founded by Ben Franklin. Franklin Sports markets sporting goods equipment for hockey, baseball, and football to name a few.
This is as far as I can go, and still probably a reach for this early in the season.
Dustin Shadbolt
11-11-2010, 17:54
Given how cryptic these things have been in the past, here goes some speculating from a newbie on this board..........
I don't think the tennis ball is meant to be a direct clue to the game pieces or the field. That would be too easy. I am, however, intrigued by the "Penn" label since they could have chosen any manufacturer, so why this one?
How about the fact that the University of Pennsylvania (founded in 1740, so no anniversary there) was founded by Ben Franklin. Franklin Sports markets sporting goods equipment for hockey, baseball, and football to name a few.
This is as far as I can go, and still probably a reach for this early in the season.
Nice thinking. I was kind of wondering if the PENN part was the message.
HumblePie
12-11-2010, 11:18
Here's another "Penn" connection....
Penn State Coach Joe Paterno just celebrated a Div I record 400th win in college football. Didn't I see others discussing the significance of the number "4" ? Could the "diabolical twist" refer to the spin required to throw a football accurately?
Just sayin.........
pandamonium
18-11-2010, 09:05
bill's blog yesterday said that they had just come up with the name and that game "hints" plural would be beginning soon. So the pen conection probably is a stretch especially if they didn't finish the game name yet.
Combining the "blue cake" hint from another thread with the previous "red-herrings" could mean we are going to a 4-alliance competition. Instead of just Red Alliance/Blue Alliance we will now have the....
1. Blue Cake Alliance
2. Red Herring Alliance
3. Yellow Fuzzy Alliance
4. and one more alliance just waiting to be announced...
Combining the "blue cake" hint from another thread with the previous "red-herrings" could mean we are going to a 4-alliance competition. Instead of just Red Alliance/Blue Alliance we will now have the....
1. Blue Cake Alliance
2. Red Herring Alliance
3. Yellow Fuzzy Alliance
4. and one more alliance just waiting to be announced...
4. Green Lantern Alliance
OMG! Four-Square with tennis balls!!!
JaneYoung
18-11-2010, 12:37
So the pen conection probably is a stretch especially if they didn't finish the game name yet.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the GDC agrees on the name of the game challenge.
pandamonium
18-11-2010, 13:35
Jane even if they gave us any of the past few game names how many people would have guessed even close? actually they would be better off giving us the name then the hints.
Break away? come on that game could have had a better name then that
other than Aim High that one is pretty obvious
Ryan Caldwell
18-11-2010, 13:42
The picture on Bills Blog has the GDC on stairs...The bump was good fun maybe this year its steps.
The tennis ball has no scale...it could be 1" or 12" dia.
And i don't think there will be less that 6 robots on the field at a time after all the energy put into trying to increase the # of games each team plays.
JaneYoung
18-11-2010, 13:52
^ I don't believe that is a photo of the GDC.
Jane even if they gave us any of the past few game names how many people would have guessed even close? actually they would be better off giving us the name then the hints.
Break away? come on that game could have had a better name then that
other than Aim High that one is pretty obvious
I wasn't thinking of the actual name, I was thinking of the process of a group of people arriving at the name. Especially clever people who love plays on words. It was a humorous thought. Sorry to be so silly in a red herring thread.
Jane
P.S. I thought Breakaway was a great name and the game logo was awesome.
blackiceskier
18-11-2010, 14:44
Combining the "blue cake" hint from another thread with the previous "red-herrings" could mean we are going to a 4-alliance competition. Instead of just Red Alliance/Blue Alliance we will now have the....
1. Blue Cake Alliance
2. Red Herring Alliance
3. Yellow Fuzzy Alliance
4. and one more alliance just waiting to be announced...
The green alliance is going to be next. They are going to have 4 alliances again referring to the leftover lights from the Diabolical Dynamics game in 2001 where they had 4 alliances, but this time around they are going to be alliances of 2 per color putting 8 teams on the field at once instead of the current 6 so that teams have more field time. This would make for an interesting elimination tree though.
Teams start making 2 more color bumpers in addition to the ones you have from breakaway :D
shot in the dark, but maybe the # 4 is saying that during eliminations alliances will consist of 4 teams that may freely play interchangeabally among themselves throughout elims while qualifications still remain 3v3.
EX:
the #1 seed is teams A, B, C, and D. Teams A, B, and C play in round 1, teams A, B, and D play in round 2, and teams B, C, and D play in round 3
Vermeulen
18-11-2010, 15:27
I'm still thinking that maybe the game's task would require the use of 4 robots on an alliance. I don't think that FIRST would have 4 alliances, because it is trying to make games more understandable to outsiders. Tracking 2 teams is easy, tracking 4 teams is harder. 4 alliances could also be hard for the FMS to track.
I like the idea of having alliances switch robots out in between matches. It opens up a lot of new strategy.
princessnatalie
18-11-2010, 15:37
The picture on Bills Blog has the GDC on stairs...The bump was good fun maybe this year its steps.
The tennis ball has no scale...it could be 1" or 12" dia.
And i don't think there will be less that 6 robots on the field at a time after all the energy put into trying to increase the # of games each team plays.
I agree, when I first read the blog post I thought, "If its about a cake, wouldnt there be a picture of the cake? Not the people...?"
I thought it may be stairs, or different levels. With the levels, it could possibly be four...?
Also, I still think they may have different terrains, to go with the whole 20th aniversery deal. Four different terrains perhaps?
JaneYoung
18-11-2010, 16:35
At the risk of being further annoying - it could be that congratulations are in order for Bill Miller for celebrating his 5th year with FRC. The fact that the full staff was there to help him celebrate is nice. They used the stairs much as schools do when having teams sit in the stands or stand on risers for yearbook photos.
The blue cake is interesting though. Can you imagine all of their teeth being blue after they ate it?
Jane
Bjenks548
18-11-2010, 20:56
But isn't the cake a lie?
Cyberphil
18-11-2010, 21:28
But isn't the cake a lie?
What a great random reference! I absolutely loved that game.
Oh! Back on topic.....:rolleyes:
The stairs idea is really intriguing especially considering that Pittsburgh Pennsylvania has the most stairs of any city in the US
http://pittsburgh.about.com/od/about_pittsburgh/a/steps.htm
That would make for a very interesting field...
The stairs idea is really intriguing especially considering that Pittsburgh Pennsylvania has the most stairs of any city in the US
http://pittsburgh.about.com/od/about_pittsburgh/a/steps.htm
That would make for a very interesting field...
maybe in this years game field there will be an area in the middle only accessable via stairs that robots can put themselves or game pieces in for bonus points, or even normal points
Radical Pi
18-11-2010, 22:20
maybe in this years game field there will be an area in the middle only accessable via stairs that robots can put themselves or game pieces in for bonus points, or even normal points
Or maybe we just have to get the robot to Pittsburgh by the end of the match :ahh:
Or maybe we just have to get the robot to Pittsburgh by the end of the match :ahh:
24-hour matches, or longer? I'm game.
rcmolloy
18-11-2010, 23:02
If I had to guess a name it would be Tower Power...
Robots must place balls in a container at the top of a set of stairs.
Game name: Basket Case.
Robots must place balls in a container at the top of a set of stairs.
Game name: Basket Case.
That actually sounds like an interesting challenge. Maybe a twist could be to have shapes other than balls mixed in, like, white balls, red cones and blue boxes. Quantities of items vary, point values vary. Maybe have the stairs mobile, on wheels with bonus points for having the stairs in a certain area at the end of the game.
pandamonium
19-11-2010, 11:03
I would like to see stairs not steps not levels but a real set of stairs at least 4 maybe they will make them at the end of the field like the ramp in aim high and there will be a bonus to climb them
even better than steps would be having to climb a latter! Game name: Latter Clatter
Cakes are round "usually" Maybe a round blue ball. Those squishy stress reliever balls are about the size of tenis balls!!
Let the countdown begin! 50 days today! I think we may see a hint come out later today!
Dustin Shadbolt
19-11-2010, 11:11
lets hope we see a clue soon! :D
Maybe a twist could be to have shapes other than balls mixed in, like, white balls, red cones and blue boxes. Quantities of items vary, point values vary. Maybe have the stairs mobile, on wheels with bonus points for having the stairs in a certain area at the end of the game.
Remember that a stated goal of FIRST is to make the game eaisier for the public spectator to follow. This seems like it would be very confusing to the person off the streets. It seems more likely to me that we'll see something with few game objects, a simple goal during the regular portion of the game and something that grabs the audiences attention during the end, like hanging was this year.
The green alliance is going to be next.
No, it isn't.
I am, however, stocking up on lots of paisley shirts...
-dave
.
No, it isn't.
I am, however, stocking up on lots of paisley shirts...
-dave
.
I wasn't aware that they made paisley Hawaiian shirts...
Think back to the person who is known for paisley shirts.
I have no clue either
Dustin Shadbolt
20-11-2010, 19:48
Paisley shirts? o.o
So maybe something retro or something. Kind of goes along with the "leftover".
Radical Pi
20-11-2010, 21:26
Humanoid robots! The shirts will be shipped in the KOP and must be worn by the robot as tracking targets
No, it isn't.
I am, however, stocking up on lots of paisley shirts...
-dave
.
i fail to see how paisley shirts fit into everything...but clearly this years game has something to do with 4, notice there are 4 periods again
crazy idea here now: robots must do 4 step dances in a paisley pattern
synth3tk
21-11-2010, 00:27
i fail to see how paisley shirts fit into everything...but clearly this years game has something to do with 4, notice there are 4 periods again
crazy idea here now: robots must do 4 step dances in a paisley pattern
I'm not quite sure if my community college course trained me correctly, but "5 != 4".
EDIT: Unless you disregard the spacing period. Then you would be right.
pandamonium
21-11-2010, 01:08
Paisley...
"So maybe something retro or something"
BRINGING BACK OLD GAME CONCEPTS!!!
Afterall, Its is the 20th year of FIRST
What would be a good Mashup?
BRINGING BACK OLD GAME CONCEPTS!!!
Afterall, Its is the 20th year of FIRST
What would be a good Mashup?2000, 2004, multipliers, 1992, 2010, and just for kicks, 2002 and 2007.
2000 and 2004 are two of the best games FIRST has dished up (and strategy for 2004 was like playing rock, paper, scissors), 1992 was the original game and had corn, multipliers are just to make life really...umm, interesting, besides being in a lot of games in the late 90's and in the 2001 game, 2010 because it won't be expected and was good, 2002 for the pushing wars and 2007 for the distinctive robot classes and the height/weight sliding scale.
pandamonium
21-11-2010, 02:04
my favorite aouto period: nocking a ball off a sensing pad to release additional objects
My favorite concept: Periods, Aim high had 2 periods after auto mode and it actually was kind of cool
my favorite game piece: tubes
my favorite end game bonus: climbing a ramp
my favorite field element: stairs
KrazyCarl92
21-11-2010, 14:43
My favorite concept: Periods, Aim high had 2 periods after auto mode and it actually was kind of cool
I wasn't around back then, but weren't there three periods (offense, defense, free for all) after auto in Aim High?
I wasn't around back then, but weren't there three periods (offense, defense, free for all) after auto in Aim High?
Yes, that is how it was played.
nighterfighter
21-11-2010, 18:16
Overdrive on regolith! :yikes:
Overdrive on regolith! :yikes:
Are you TRYING to give me nightmares?
Are you TRYING to give me nightmares?
What nightmares? It would just be a big pile of robots in each of the corners :D
Overdrive on regolith! :yikes:
bring it on :cool:
Overdrive on regolith! :yikes:
What about Breakaway on regolith? Ever tried to line up a ball with any certainty, let alone do it with robots slamming you into a wall? It is not a sort of thing you can do without fine control. How about aiming for the tower. Skid right into it. What about 469, you say? Have fun fighting for the tunnel. One good push and they're pinned against a wall, doing nothing. Keep em' there for the entire match, and you should be good. OO!! OO!! I got it: Zoom across the field, catch a ball on the way, then turn really fast and skid into the wall, and kick. Assuming you kick straight, it should make it if you're lined up with the wall.
Overdrive on regolith sounds a bit more fun, although it would be a slow game. If they used the same ramming and pinning rules from 09, you could just pound the simbots into a corner and keep em there. Traction control would be huge, as would controllable turn-drifting (sounds like a lot of fun)
What about an in-between? Slick, but not too slick. Or a slippery surface, all wheels allowed (polished tile, anyone?)
Chris is me
21-11-2010, 22:27
Hey, remember how this is the red herring thread?
Maybe Dave posted... a red herring.
JaneYoung
21-11-2010, 23:03
Hey, remember how this is the red herring thread?
Maybe Dave posted... a red herring.
Please don't tell me that paisley is the new red... herring.
pandamonium
22-11-2010, 08:20
regolith ramps? :)
JohnBoucher
22-11-2010, 09:34
regolith ramps? :)
I love ramps. :D Bring them back!!!!
Cyberphil
22-11-2010, 10:05
I might have found something interesting:
The post-punk group Television Personalities used Frčre Jacques as the chorus to their song "Hello Edward", found on their album 'Paisley Shirts & Mini Skirts' (1996).
This is from a Wikipedia section called Frčre Jacques in popular culture.
But what I find interesting is that in this Wikipedia section, a band called Television Personalities used this as their chorus in a song on one of their albums called 'Paisley Shirts & Mini Skirts,' which was debuted in 1996.
Now, since everything on Wikipedia is correct :rolleyes: , this could be a good trail to follow blindly! :D
Hexagon Havoc Anyone??
pandamonium
22-11-2010, 10:23
strips of cloth or actual shirts would be a very interesting game piece
Game Name: Laundry Shoot
is there a connection to Tennis?
Credit Valley Lawn Tennis Club
830 Paisley Blvd. W
Mississauga, ON
905-896-2629
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Paisley
Brandon_L
22-11-2010, 23:01
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Paisley
So were obviously making guitar hero playing robots to duel.
Ok, on to 2012.
So were obviously making guitar hero playing robots to duel.
Ok, on to 2012.
Nah, already been done by FRC 1986. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78180
Ditto for the water game--1726 and 842 and I think a few others have that down.
Now, if you'd said guitar-playing robots, I'd be inclined to agree.
Nah, already been done by FRC 1986. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78180
Now, if you'd said guitar-playing robots, I'd be inclined to agree.
robot battle of the bands?
Not positive but I think Dave Lavery has a new additional avatar. Rock Climbing? Can anyone confirm this or was that there and I'm just going crazy?
P.S. The image is labeled "Climbing"
Not positive but I think Dave Lavery has a new additional avatar. Rock Climbing? Can anyone confirm this or was that there and I'm just going crazy?
P.S. The image is labeled "Climbing"
He's had it for years. You just haven't noticed it yet.
Ah, just crazy with a touch of wishful thinking then.
I was in the 5th grade classroom of the lego team I help with and had an idea so simple it hit me. The little chairs have tenis balls on the feet so they slide and don't make noise = Moveable Goals!
This is a fantastic idea. And maybe Dave's change to paisley shirts means the game is suddenly getting colder...hockey anyone?
Dustin Shadbolt
26-11-2010, 22:33
I really like the idea of the movable goals that would be fun!
whisper28
27-11-2010, 04:16
Honestly, i don't know about the pic of dave's of tennis ball. And what is red herring is divert attention from original issue.....what is this?:)
Determan
27-11-2010, 15:29
What If their was a field set up like in volleyball and you had to get balls to the opposing side. The end the team with the most balls on their side lost.
This game is similar to OCCRA's (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24) ( Oakland County Competitive Robotics Association ) Game this year, ( Occra is like first without bumpers )
And for the endgame you would climb up a ramp on your side and try to balance end game points vs staying on the floor and shooting balls over.:D
I found the REAL tennis balls last night at the South Bay Galleria. They were in one of those claw games where you drop the claw to pick up a toy. Maybe one of the 294 guys can go get one for us. I included a little of the machine for scale. The balls looked to be about 8"diameter to me. Sorry about the blurry picture, I took it with my cell phone camera and it looked OK at the time.
I really like the idea of the movable goals that would be fun!
Lunacy?
Lunacy?
First Frenzy: Raising the Bar.
Zone Zeal.
Diabolical Dynamics.
Double Trouble (if you count the robots as goals--there was also a mobile target to be on.)
Rack n' Roll (OK, so it wasn't that movable!)
Now for the hockey: Lunacy for sure.
I really like the idea of the movable goals that would be fun!
2009, 2004, 2002, 2001. I don't know any of the games prior to 2000 well enough to know if any of those had trailers.
In 2004, 2002, and 2001, the goals were not permanently attached to the robots, and teams designed trailer hitches to move the goals with.
pandamonium
29-11-2010, 14:08
I am starting to get anxious for an official hint
hopefully bill's next blog will have the cure :)
indubitably
03-12-2010, 10:59
i fail to see how paisley shirts fit into everything...but clearly this years game has something to do with 4, notice there are 4 periods again
crazy idea here now: robots must do 4 step dances in a paisley pattern
It will be a 4 team free-for-all!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/b/ba/20090405171135!Penn_Station_tracks.jpg
No one thinks about Penn Station?
hopefully bill's next blog will have the cure :)
The cure is worse than the sickness.
pandamonium
03-12-2010, 14:04
The hint is in Pen Station lol
@EricH it is a matter of picking my poison :)
Jon Stratis
03-12-2010, 15:59
As mentioned in Bill's most recent post (and pointed out in this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=983309#post983309)), Penn does seem to be coming up again.
If we look at the tennis ball as a chance to get the name Penn out there, and now Bill's blog talking about Penn(sylvania)... How about a game relating in some way to William Penn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Penn)?
He was a real estate entrepreneur... a game related to claiming and holding territory on the field?
He had good relations and treaties with the local Indian tribes, and he was a big proponent of colonial unification.... a 6v0 game?
Zone Zeal meets Diabolical Dynamics.
The game objects are trees (Pennsylvania literally means, "Penn's Forest" or "Penn's Woods"). Penn Station is a place where transportation routes come together, so teams must control the tree transport route junctions.
The 6v0 comes from speed to get your alliance's trees to their station, plus the speed with which your opponents get their trees to their station, the sum of which is your score for the round. Coopertition bonus is only given if both teams accomplish the task, and is worth 2*your opponent's score pre-penalties. Oh, and you can only move your trees through a junction if you control it.
Oh, and by "trees", I mean the Michigan state tree (traffic cone) and the Oklahoma state tree (telegraph pole).
(Now watch this go into the 2013 game...)
Bjenks548
04-12-2010, 10:57
If Penn keeps coming up, is there any reason the game piece can not just be a bunch of pens? it would pose an interesting game element to pick up and make a hopper for.
demosthenes2k8
04-12-2010, 14:45
Haha, Bjenks. I mentioned that same idea today. The response was a definite "NO THAT'D BE HORRIBLE!"
GDC, PLEASE don't take this as a suggestion.
Haha, Bjenks. I mentioned that same idea today. The response was a definite "NO THAT'D BE HORRIBLE!"
GDC, PLEASE don't take this as a suggestion.
Hey, it's better than the baton suggestion a few years ago. At least pens are useful--it'll make it easy for folks to write stuff down when they need to!
RoboMaster
04-12-2010, 18:23
Well, pool noodles would be the best of these pen-like evils, but even those are difficult to handle (or buy in January).
synth3tk
04-12-2010, 19:34
As mentioned in Bill's most recent post (and pointed out in this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=983309#post983309)), Penn does seem to be coming up again.
If we look at the tennis ball as a chance to get the name Penn out there, and now Bill's blog talking about Penn(sylvania)... How about a game relating in some way to William Penn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Penn)?
He was a real estate entrepreneur... a game related to claiming and holding territory on the field?
He had good relations and treaties with the local Indian tribes, and he was a big proponent of colonial unification.... a 6v0 game?
Kind of sounds like an interesting game, regardless of whether or not this is correct.
Well, pool noodles would be the best of these pen-like evils, but even those are difficult to handle (or buy in January).
Bill keeps telling us to buy our pool noodles now (at least he did back when they still sold them...)
Kind of sounds like an interesting game, regardless of whether or not this is correct.
OMG! I know next year's game! RISK!!!
Next year: 4 zones with a movable "goal" in each zone, tennis balls are places in the goals to score points. during the last 20 seconds, pool noodles will drop from above each driver station and can be placed in the goal for bonus points. bonus points also given if all goals are on your teams side of the field at the end
S.P.A.M.er 17
06-12-2010, 16:14
He was a real estate entrepreneur... a game related to claiming and holding territory on the field?
OMG! I know next year's game! RISK!!!
Dodar, do not pass go and do not collect $200. "Estate entrepreneur." Obliviously 2011's game is Robo-nopoly. I know what I'm doing until my teams first regional, collecting as many get out of jail free cards as i can!
pandamonium
06-12-2010, 16:38
maybe bill and dave are reffering to my team 1511 PENfield robotics Rolling Thunder - this years game! lol NOt sure what the game would be though haha
note: we wear camo pants not paisley shirts :)
University of PENNsylvania: one of the original, sustaining American colleges and home to the first, large-scale computer, and was found by Benjamin Franklin.
Just some food for thought ::rtm::
Hotel Pennsylvania, home of the HOPE(Hackers on Planet Earth) conference every other august, run by the editor of 2600 magazine. Pseudonym Emanuel Goldstein from 1984.... So telescreens are gonna be important?
Danny Blau
06-12-2010, 23:59
OR it could be the tennis ball projectiles used in the collegiate game, "FIRST Flight"
could be?
check it out http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=983602&postcount=30
Danny
Tennis balls would be really hard to pick up.
Tennis balls would be really hard to pick up.
Some other things you can say that about:
--Playground balls (2000, 2001, 2004)
--Soccer balls (2002, 2010)
--Yoga/excercise balls (1998, 2001, 2004)
--Orbit balls (2009)
--40" diameter balls (2008)
--foam basketballs (2006)
--inner tubes (1997, 2007)
I'd be more pessimistic about keeping them in the arena than picking them up.
Cyberphil
07-12-2010, 23:06
Tennis balls would be really hard to pick up.
After some testing and prototyping, we found that they really aren't that bad to pick up. The hard part will be getting them off the walls with bumpers, especially if we cannot extend out of the frame perimeter.
After some testing and prototyping, we found that they really aren't that bad to pick up. The hard part will be getting them off the walls with bumpers, especially if we cannot extend out of the frame perimeter.
Probably impossible without suction, which would have to be pretty powerful. I hope we can leave the frame perimeter this year; I haven't played a game like that yet (this being my third year).
Cyberphil
07-12-2010, 23:17
Probably impossible without suction, which would have to be pretty powerful. I hope we can leave the frame perimeter this year; I haven't played a game like that yet (this being my third year).
Oh man. The possibilities are completely endless. Its amazing to walk through the pits and just see the thousands of different ways to solve the same problems. That is one of my favorite things about FIRST. Especially in the nationals!
Probably impossible without suction, which would have to be pretty powerful. I hope we can leave the frame perimeter this year; I haven't played a game like that yet (this being my third year).
Actually thats not true. As you could leave your frame perimeter last year...if only for 2 seconds :cool:
PAR_WIG1350
07-12-2010, 23:19
After some testing and prototyping, we found that they really aren't that bad to pick up. The hard part will be getting them off the walls with bumpers, especially if we cannot extend out of the frame perimeter.
Has anyone else noticed how less much less interesting looking robots have become with this rule? (in general, some robots still look cool)
EDIT: the rule I am referring to would be the one that limits expansion beyond the frame perimeter
Actually thats not true. As you could leave your frame perimeter last year...if only for 2 seconds :cool:
Oh, yeah. Momentary lapse there. Still though, that was so limited it hardly counts. Especially compared to games like 2007 or 2002.
Ya, I had probably one of the best 1st years anyone coulda had, 2007. If i had to rank the years i was a student they would be: 2007>2010>2008>2009. My 1st and 3rd favorites were both years where you could extend to your hearts desire. Except 2008 because of the invisible-cylinder rule, but you get the point. 2010 is 2nd because this year was awesome!! it was tied for 1st in every category except the uniqueness of the robots. Like 2007, 2010 had an awesome auto period, tele-op, and awesome finish.
Chris is me
07-12-2010, 23:36
1st and 3rd favorites were both years where you could extend to your hearts desire. Except 2008 because of the invisible-cylinder rule, but you get the point.
2007 had a similar rule, albeit one much harder to break.
2007 had a similar rule, albeit one much harder to break.
Well 1 reason why i thought 2007 was unique was the different weight classes. The different height to weight ratios to choose from.
Ah, yes, the box rule (similar to the cylinder rule). Orientation wasn't specified, though--and the rule didn't apply at all in your own home zone.
But I concur on the height/weight classes. Bring those back!
Ah, yes, the box rule (similar to the cylinder rule). Orientation wasn't specified, though--and the rule didn't apply at all in your own home zone.
But I concur on the height/weight classes. Bring those back!
Yes i do miss those, even though this year we got close to those. In 2007, you built your robot from the weight/height ratio depending on what you wanted to play--unless you were a boss and could build a middle weight/height robot that could do all three--but you had that somewhat this year because of which zone you wanted to play from.
279 EMPIE
14-12-2010, 21:02
i think that tennis balls are going to be hard... do we pick them up? do we drop them? Do we shoot them? Do we hit a target?
Its probelly going to be something unexpected mabe like using them to do some thing on your robot?
Maybe for wheels we will have to use tennis balls!
279 EMPIE
14-12-2010, 21:31
ya but we would have to pick them u and on or run them over and on lol
Maybe for wheels we will have to use tennis balls!
maybe another year where everyone has to use the same wheels like in '09, only instead if reagolith the wheels will be coated in tennis ball fuzz
maybe another year where everyone has to use the same wheels like in '09, only instead if reagolith the wheels will be coated in tennis ball fuzz
But wouldn't it be even more of a challenge to drive when the wheels are 4 inches in diameter! That would be epic. Maybe a curling bot?
But wouldn't it be even more of a challenge to drive when the wheels are 4 inches in diameter! That would be epic. Maybe a curling bot?
Hate to break it to you, but I believe that 4" wheels have driven just fine. IIRC, some teams using West Coast Drive did that a few years ago on a flat field. 1625 this last year went even smaller, at least in prototype form (or was that tiny tiny swerve module two years ago's offseason prototype?)
Curling was the 2009 game--required 6" wheels, slick floor, simulating 1/6 gravity--but the floor was nice and slick.
The real challenge: No wheels and no tank tracks. Legs or nothing!
Chris is me
15-12-2010, 05:52
Hate to break it to you, but I believe that 4" wheels have driven just fine. IIRC, some teams using West Coast Drive did that a few years ago on a flat field. 1625 this last year went even smaller, at least in prototype form (or was that tiny tiny swerve module two years ago's offseason prototype?)
3 inch? wheels on their competition swerve drive this year.
A large number of teams used 4-4.5 inch wheels this year, not limited to 254, 968, 1114, 1771, 177, 233, with a very non-flat field. I'm beginning to think there aren't many games where you can't get away with them.
GaryVoshol
15-12-2010, 06:08
The real challenge: No wheels and no tank tracks. Legs or nothing!With tennis balls on the ends of the legs, like some people do with their walkers. ;)
With tennis balls on the ends of the legs, like some people do with their walkers. ;)
I think we'd need to double the match time to account for the slower pace of the robots ;)
whcirobotics
15-12-2010, 08:36
I was looking through bills blog and i found the Pennsylvania again and after we saw it the label of the tennis ball. maybe there is a connection?
Friday, December 3, 2010
The view from 30,000 feet
Good Afternoon Teams,
I just got back from flying to Pennsylvania with Dean to look for additional FRC corporate support. During the plane ride (yes, Dean was the pilot) I thought of a few more things to tell you this week.
Chris is me
15-12-2010, 10:36
I'll contribute.
"The view from 30,000 feet" is the title. He never mentions anything about what he sees in the blog post, but he does mention he's flying from Pennsylvania (presumably to Manchester)
You get a good view of the Allegheny and some of the Appalachian mountains on most flights from Pittsburgh. A few state and national forests too. Not that much water.
I also feel compelled to note that while Penn was founded in Pennsylvania, it's currently owned by a company operating out of Austria, while Penn itself operates out of Arizona.
rcmolloy
15-12-2010, 11:42
You get a good view of the Allegheny and some of the Appalachian mountains on most flights from Pittsburgh.
There is a mountain included in the FTC game this year. Could there be some crossover into the FRC game?
Chris is me
15-12-2010, 11:48
There is a mountain included in the FTC game this year. Could there be some crossover into the FRC game?
Considering FIRST Choice is offering teams FTC parts, this is actually somewhat likely.
It's worth noting that PITSCO is from Pittsburg, Kansas...
Robert Cawthon
15-12-2010, 14:05
It's worth noting that PITSCO is from Pittsburg, Kansas...
Trust me! There is nothing there that I can even consider a mountain!
karomata
16-12-2010, 13:04
I've done some research about the word Penn.
the results look promising.
Go to wikipedia or google or something and look up John Penn
I am doubtful that the tenis ball itself means much, but it could be
pandamonium
17-12-2010, 15:50
The title of bills Dec. 8 blog was "Two steps forward and one step back."
Today he wrote "In light of the upcoming holidays, stand by next week for upcoming game hints."
he BOLDED stand by!
drum roll please... the 2011 First game Stand By
walking robots?
or...
Sleep mode (in electronics), also known as standby-mode - a mode in which electronic appliances are turned off but under power and ready to activate on command
robots receive an additional 10 point bonus if they are designed in a way that does not use wheels to contact the playing surface
Travis Hoffman
17-12-2010, 16:16
The title of bills Dec. 8 blog was "Two steps forward and one step back."
I think the game will be called "Opposites Attract". Each robot only competes in one "match" at an event. Each robot must execute a series of poorly-choreographed dance "steps" in front of a green screen. Dave Lavery will animate an annoying feline dance partner for each robot (he's branching into classic 2D), and Paul Lazarus will produce a music video for each.
These videos will ultimately be viewed and judged by Paula Abdul, who is tasked with determining each event champion by providing worthwhile and meaningful critiques of the subject matter she is judging. Therefore, the 2011 game will never end. We apologize for this inconvenience, but thank you for playing.
...
Oh wow, I just found this online - I'm fairly certain the game will look like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ByNROf8v-Q. I'm utterly *shocked* that someone else had this idea.
JamesCH95
17-12-2010, 16:33
ROFL :D
The title of bills Dec. 8 blog was "Two steps forward and one step back."
Today he wrote "In light of the upcoming holidays, stand by next week for upcoming game hints."
he BOLDED stand by!
drum roll please... the 2011 First game Stand By
walking robots?
or...
Sleep mode (in electronics), also known as standby-mode - a mode in which electronic appliances are turned off but under power and ready to activate on command
robots receive an additional 10 point bonus if they are designed in a way that does not use wheels to contact the playing surface
While I think his stand by is just his usual bolding of the important words for what he is discussing, I do believe One Step Forward 2 steps back might have to deal with something in the game. I just don't feel the title did the post justice to what it talked about.
JaneYoung
17-12-2010, 18:20
Therefore, the 2011 game will never end.
Aha! So this is the game that will never end. Got it. Much like the threads about the game that will never end.
Jane
DonRotolo
19-12-2010, 21:18
drum roll please... the 2011 First game Stand By
Oh, you mean like what we do at First Week events while they work the bugs in the field? :rolleyes:
I dunno, doesn't sound like a game anyone would really want to watch.
Radical Pi
19-12-2010, 21:42
I dunno, doesn't sound like a game anyone would really want to watch.
Well, if we take our usual amount of bending of hints into account,
Stand by -> fixing bugs in the field -> bugs -> cleaning -> roombas
the game must mean roomba wars! A 6v0 game to defend yourself against an onslaught of the vacumning menaces! Sounds fairly exciting
(I now have the image stuck in my head of an announcer yelling "RELEASE THE ROOMBAS!")
theprgramerdude
19-12-2010, 23:13
Hate to break it to you, but I believe that 4" wheels have driven just fine. IIRC, some teams using West Coast Drive did that a few years ago on a flat field. 1625 this last year went even smaller, at least in prototype form (or was that tiny tiny swerve module two years ago's offseason prototype?)
Curling was the 2009 game--required 6" wheels, slick floor, simulating 1/6 gravity--but the floor was nice and slick.
The real challenge: No wheels and no tank tracks. Legs or nothing!
Bah, who needs legs when you can go hovercraft style!
unionylibertad
20-12-2010, 18:05
if you think about it, there would probably be more teams that can pull off the hovercraft than legs...
Okay, Okay now. Time to get serious. Because we got the TENnis ball, there will be 10 robots on the field. It's a PENn. brand tennis ball, therefore, some robots will be penned off in a pen on the field. Teams will have to compete to be first in the Standby line to get into the pen. In, the pen, the robots will have to play some combination of the top three FRC games of all time. The ten robots will be split into "doubles" as with real tennis, except with 5 teams!
Now, you're probably wondering why there isn't an obscure item that will sell out instantly at kick-off? Well, to get your robot into the standby line, you have to enter your input into a component on the field, which will then release a tennis ball. This won't be any ordinary tennis ball, it will be one 7.32 in diameter which is currently sells about 12 balls a year. You will need to bag or tag one of these to your robot to be allowed into the standby line.
Oh, it's also all underwater.. um... because tennis balls are often used for fetch with dogs in the water?
Sean Raia
21-12-2010, 09:37
A previously posted link on this thread about Pennsylvania had a lot of the number four popping up.
Something tells me we may see four team alliances on the field (as hectic as that may be).
Chris is me
21-12-2010, 09:39
A previously posted link on this thread about Pennsylvania had a lot of the number four popping up.
Something tells me we may see four team alliances on the field (as hectic as that may be).
I'd much prefer four robots on the field - total. How old-school is that?
I'd much prefer four robots on the field - total. How old-school is that?
2004.
nikole95.7
06-01-2011, 10:16
It may not necessarily be 4" game pieces, but as Chris pointed out, the number 4 is shaping up to be an important number.
The last time a number kept cropping up in the "hints" that Dave and others released, it was 3. At the time, only two teams on an alliance were on the field at the same time, no matter if the alliance was 2 or 3 teams. This was back in late 2004.
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