[FTC]: Autonomous Ideas? [Archive]

team F.T.C 4240

10-11-2010, 19:43

Well what I would do is, first think about all the things you can do to get points in auto mode. Then think of what would be easy to do and that wont require a lot of programing so it has less of a chance of messing up. Lastly make shore you have a low chance of hitting another robot and messing the whole thing up.

Hoped that helped
~Derrick

JesseK

11-11-2010, 11:50

Go over the cliff. The bridges and mountains are a crapshoot.

team F.T.C 4240

11-11-2010, 13:53

@JesseK
What if you are on the face of the cliff? Also if you are on the other side you get 10 points, and that won't take very long to do. So you could try to score some then go to the other side.

JesseK

12-11-2010, 10:06

@JesseK
What if you are on the face of the cliff?

In my experience of coaching drivers for 4 years, if BotA's team has a reliable autonomous that scores a decent amount of points then BotA's team gets to pick where they put BotA for autonomous purposes. It's held true from qualifying tournaments all the way through to Finals at Champ's.

Otherwise I'd chance traversal via the bridge, but our robot better be the first one to it.

What our robot does on the other side is ... well I don't know what the kids have built so honestly I can't tell you what they're going to do. If I were to build a bot for this game, I'd build one to launch all batons back to the goal-side or launch them all out of the top in one swift motion. Then for teleop, the bot should play good defense. As for the endgame, well, personally I think that's a crapshoot too.

Joachim

12-11-2010, 14:13

1) get the doubler baton out of the center dispenser
2) get a few more regular batons out of a dispenser
3) put the regular batons in a rolling goal (of your alliance color) with the doubler
4) repeat steps 2) and 3) as fast as you can until autonomous ends

Optionally, to make this all a little easier, for step 0.5 you could push a rolling goal to your dispenser side first.

Every regular baton taken from a dispenser and put in a rolling goal during autonomous with the doubler = 14 total points by the end of the game (if your alliance does not dump out the rolling goal during driver controlled, like in the end game).

Every regular baton taken from a dispenser during driver controlled and scored in a rolling goal without the doubler = only 3 points at the end of the game.

JohnFogarty

13-11-2010, 02:55

I just thought i'd throw this out there.
GET THE GOAL ONTO THE DISPENSING SIDE OF THE FIELD.
thatisall. xD my 2 cents

NalaTI

13-11-2010, 04:51

I just thought i'd throw this out there.
GET THE GOAL ONTO THE DISPENSING SIDE OF THE FIELD.
thatisall. xD my 2 cents

Be very careful. the refs were very watchful for anything that approached goal possession at the qualifying tournament. If you can push it over without controlling it, great, but...

JohnFogarty

13-11-2010, 14:49

The game manual states that mechanisms that pull, lift and take hold of the rolling goal are what make it possession. If you're just pushing it dare I say off the cliff..in no way can you say that is possession.

normalmutant

13-11-2010, 22:04

Yep - Autonomous scoring - that's where the money is.
Observe:
-The scores are (usually) counted twice in autonomous and teleop.
-The doubler (if scored) doubles the doubled score above.
-2 points for every baton dispensed.
Even just emptying and scoring the middle dispenser with the doubler, without magnetic batons, will get you over a hundred points. Of course, this will get harder as robots develop blocking programs...

JohnFogarty

14-11-2010, 21:26

BACONDUDE1902

15-11-2010, 08:31

There is a team in FL that can score 40 points in autonomous like nothing.

JohnFogarty

15-11-2010, 16:01

Hmm...I'm gonna start working on auto soon since our robot is almost finished and the way it's designed we could do the same...I have to wait til February for South Carolina's state competition again..we have to do qualifiers this year..maybe because of the random 7 or 8 teams that got to world last year from SC xD

normalmutant

15-11-2010, 21:29

You mean to tell me you can score more than one set of 5 in autonomous? besides the one you could start off with?

Right. Well, you'd need to take the goal with you. But most teams didn't design their robots for that.

team F.T.C 4240

19-11-2010, 11:17

There is a team in FL that can score 40 points in autonomous like nothing.

Well you can score 55 points in auto mode if you score your 5 into the rolling goal (15 in auto mode) then go to the other side (10) then despence all 15 batons onto the floor [(30)you should save the doubler if you go for that despencer] and if you can somehow balance on the bridge then that would make it 60 points in auto mode.

(I tried to say an auto mode that is doable.)
thanks

normalmutant

19-11-2010, 14:16

That's a pretty good plan. Remember that the scored batons will be counted again at the end of teleop, so that makes 30 points. That would be pretty good right there, and then if you go to the other side, dispense and store the doubler, then dispense all the rest of the batons... Wow. That's 70, with the potential for another 15 if the doubler is scored. Yeah, that's better than most of the higher teleop scores at the scrimmages so far.

alphadog0309

26-11-2010, 21:43

you only get the 10 points for getting over if you end with your robot not touching any part of the ramp, bridge, or mountain. so using that strategy, you would get:

15 points from rolling goal
30 points from dispensing
15 points from balancing
15 points (possible if doubler is scored
______________________
75 points max

so far, by my calculations the most efficient way to score the max number of points would be to bring a goal over with you and try to score at least 3 loads of 5 batons

15 points from preloads
20 points from dispensing 10 batons
27 points from scoring 9 batons dispensed
42 points from scoring double baton
15 points from balancing
_________________________________________
119 points

but then again you only have 40 seconds

normalmutant

27-11-2010, 13:15

Idealistically:
3*5=15 points from scoring preloads - 5 seconds to capture goal and score
10 points from being on other side - 15 seconds to go across and line up
That leaves 20 seconds to dispense and score.
2*15=30 points from dispensing 15 batons
3*15=45 points from scoring all batons dispensed
(2/3)*25-3=15 - probability of finding magnet baton
15+45+15=75 points from scoring doubler baton
_________________________________________
15+10+30+45+15+75=
Maximum possible average autonomous score: 188 points - 40 seconds
Scored batons counted again after teleop - 154 points

Maximum possible average total score: 342 points + balancing

Wow. That's scary. I hope I miscalculated, because that's just ridiculous. Time to create blocking programs for autonomous.

RRLedford

07-12-2010, 02:56

Our team, 3507 RoboTheosis, has this autonomous strategy:
1) We immediately engage and deeply entangle (not possess) the nearest rolling goal into a deep V-notch at front of bot which at full penetration of goal dumps five preloads into the furthest goal tube.
2) We easily navigate with the rolling goal well entangled into our deep V-notch at front, going over the tilt bridge to the other side, then arcing into and tracking along the far wall until we hit the side of the middle dispenser with a hard stopper that aligns our bot's side mounted vertical conveyor well centered on the middle dispenser.
3) We run our vertical conveyor to unload the doubler and as many more regular batons up our conveyor, which then directly dumps them onto a slide that guides them down by gravity feed into the three nearest tubes of the adjacent (in front) rolling goal .
4) We then retreat from our now well loaded rolling goal & head for the tilt bridge to balance
5) On start of teleop mode, we resume filling of the goal with the doubler in it to the max, then we bring the 2nd goal across to the 9" high dispenser and it is also filled directly by conveyor without moving the bot.

We always dispense & transfer directly into a well controlled rolling goal that penetrates 50% into the volume of our bot - without having to move from our position next to the dispenser.

-Dick Ledford

Joachim

07-12-2010, 09:37

4) We then retreat from our now well loaded rolling goal & head for the tilt bridge to balance

You must be emptying the center dispenser, then. Otherwise, why even go and try to balance?

Each additional doubled baton scored during autonomous equals 14 points by the end of the game (2 for removing from dispenser, plus 3 x 2 for autonomous, plus 3 x 2 at final scoring), while balancing only nets 5 additional points, relative to just staying parked on the far side near the dispenser.

JesseK

07-12-2010, 09:53

-Dick Ledford

I will grant you that your mode will work for your first couple of qualification matches (and perhaps also against an elim opponent that isn't paying attention). However, there is an extremely simple autonomous counter:

Noob team 10001 creates a "drive straight for 1.5 seconds after a 5 second delay" autonomous. The robots collide. Your team gets only 25 points for position + rolling goal batons and a possible possession penalty if the timing is right. You may win auto mode by 10-15 points, however you've left yourself in the precarious position of having easy defense played on you for the rest of the match.

RRLedford

07-12-2010, 11:43

I will grant you that your mode will work for your first couple of qualification matches (and perhaps also against an elim opponent that isn't paying attention). However, there is an extremely simple autonomous counter:

Noob team 10001 creates a "drive straight for 1.5 seconds after a 5 second delay" autonomous. The robots collide. Your team gets only 25 points for position + rolling goal batons and a possible possession penalty if the timing is right. You may win auto mode by 10-15 points, however you've left yourself in the precarious position of having easy defense played on you for the rest of the match.

Well with a high center that lets us easily traverse the mountain or either tilt bridge. 4-motor drive, the snow plow effect of the goal in front of us and more than one programmed route to the middle dispenser, the defense against up may not be as easy as you make it sound.

Of course we have anticipated this We are adding a 2nd conveyor on opposite side of bot now for this very reason - giving us more route options in autonomous mode. Plus we still have some serious scoring ability once the teleop mode starts, and we still have our goal fully entangled and ready to drive whereever we need to go next.

-Dick Ledford

RRLedford

07-12-2010, 11:48

You must be emptying the center dispenser, then. Otherwise, why even go and try to balance?

Each additional doubled baton scored during autonomous equals 14 points by the end of the game (2 for removing from dispenser, plus 3 x 2 for autonomous, plus 3 x 2 at final scoring), while balancing only nets 5 additional points, relative to just staying parked on the far side near the dispenser.

We don't get all of them into the goal yet, but we do try to empty it, yes.
At least with the goal entangled and 50% penetrated into the space volume of our bot while dispensing, our speed at and odds of getting them into the goal is maximized.

-Dick Ledford

JesseK

07-12-2010, 11:48

Joachim

07-12-2010, 12:00

TYour only recourse would be to go to another dispenser, which is not only less accurate but also (by definition of possession) causes you to lose the rolling goal.

The definition of possession of a rolling goal may not work the way you think, based on the official forum postings. Check out the thread on rolling goal possession.

Edit: The one here in this forum, that is: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87629

JesseK

07-12-2010, 12:55

The updated ruling, only further affirms my interpreted definition of possessing a rolling goal, so the FTC GDC needs to update the manual with relevant info form the FTC forum postings. The rolling goal is moved forward with the robot and restricted from moving side to side at all. In Finals Match #5, 3539 even got the rolling goal off of a wall (the camera was turned away) well before the endgame.

The counter to the auto mode still stands though. I didn't mean to turn this into a legal issue about possession so much as the practical issue of containing the goal in auto mode. The 3539 driver maintained control without so-called possession because the driver stopped and started every time the robot turned. While an auto-mode could do the same on its own, it's next to impossible to predict what to do in a cluttered environment. Even worse is that the robot is then stuck next to an opponent robot whose driver will surely exploit the cluttered environment immediately (if the drive train is able...).

RRLedford

07-12-2010, 22:02

The point I was trying to make is that the center dispenser would be blocked. Your only recourse would be to go to another dispenser, which is not only less accurate but also (by definition of possession) causes you to lose the rolling goal.

We don't approach the center dispenser from a 90 degree to the wall direction. We approach following the wall and can program select which side we come at it from. This allows us to push any blockers out of the way, because our all four wheel drive can move most blockers. Since our conveyor loads batons from the side of our bot and we always follow the wall to get into position opposite the dispenser, we are not as easy to block out from dispenser access as other bots are.

We can turn quite tight circles without loosing control of the rolling goal. The deep V notch and serious amount of entanglement with the scoring tubes makes it stay firmly in our control while turning tightly, and unless we back up at close to an angle 180 degrees opposite to our initial engagement path, we maintain very good control. It is also nearly impossible to knock it out of our control by any kind of impact coming from any angle.

-Dick Ledford

bpddpb

08-03-2011, 21:51

Sounds like our team (picklejarheads) does exactly what many people are mentioning: dump preloads, get over to the other side, dispense 15 batons. We save the doubler and 4 other batons, and then dump the rest on the ground.

15 points for preloads scored in autonomous
10 points for getting over in autonomous
30 points for dispensing 15 batons in autonomous
12 points for dumping 4 batons in TeleOp
15 points for preloads counting again in TeleOp
27 points for doubling 9 batons in rolling goal
10 points for balancing
-------------------------------
119 points (just for one team)

We have our competition on March 12 and we're still working out the kinks in this idea, but we think it will work really well.

One of our earlier autonomous programs is shown on our youtube channel (picklejarheads)

PhilBot

14-03-2011, 17:03

Hey...

That's a great Auto Mode G-FORCE could do:

Score 5 in rolling goal, cross bridge, Collect 5 from side dispensor and then go back and ballance.

15 + 10 + 15 (40 not counting points again at end of teleop)

Phil.

Well you can score 55 points in auto mode if you score your 5 into the rolling goal (15 in auto mode) then go to the other side (10) then despence all 15 batons onto the floor [(30)you should save the doubler if you go for that despencer] and if you can somehow balance on the bridge then that would make it 60 points in auto mode.

(I tried to say an auto mode that is doable.)
thanks

bpddpb

20-03-2011, 08:38

We also filmed a practice run in which we score the doubler baton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d25xJ0z0pf0&feature=channel_video_title

ethan_orion

22-03-2011, 13:32

picklejarheads,

it seems like your robot holds onto 4 batons and then unloads the rest from the dispenser at which point your have more than 5 batons on/in/controlled by your robot. this appears to be something you would be penalized for, having more than 5 batons. please correct me if i have a misunderstanding of either the rules or the performance of your bot.

looks like a great design.

bpddpb

23-03-2011, 19:51

The judges never called us for this, even though we did technically, for short periods of time have more than 5 batons in possession. They even said that if we had some batons on the conveyor at the end of autonomous, they wouldn't penalize us if our first action in TeleOp was to drop them. Not sure this is backed up by the actual rules though...