$500 to go, one week

[Brandon_L]

We are about $500 away from the $5,000 fee and there are only a few of us out of 20 or so that are trying. Me and my friend made about $700 total, while half of the kids didn't even hit 25.

I just don't get it. I'm at the point where I'm about to just tell them their on their own and if they don't make it, I go to another team. I just don't get how 2 kids can get $700 and 20 can't get $500. We ordered hexbugs and most of them refuse to even attempt to sell them. Only 3 or 4 people signed out/sold them (were currently out, ordering more.)

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Where can I magically get $500 within the next week?!?!

[theprgramerdude]

Do you know of any local colleges or universities that could pick up the last of the tab for you guys? Our community college has helped us all four years, and for the first two the University of Minnesota helped pay as well (it really helped when they picked up the tab, but it also helped with forcing us to get out and contact more businesses.)

[Brandon_L]

Do you know of any local colleges or universities that could pick up the last of the tab for you guys? Our community college has helped us all four years, and for the first two the University of Minnesota helped pay as well (it really helped when they picked up the tab, but it also helped with forcing us to get out and contact more businesses.)

All we tried was NJIT and we didn't get anything from them, we do have a community college Ill check that out.

Who should we talk to there?

[Chris is me]

Open your phonebook and call all your local tech business and hardware stores, one by one. Say you're $500 away from your goal. Even if you get $25 from a business, you only need 20 of those to make the fee.

On a slightly unrelated note, anyone got $3000 on hand? :eek:

[EricH]

If you do get the $500 within the next week, I've got a suggestion.

Don't let the team members that didn't do any work on fundraising know that you made the deadline--yet.

Then, at the next team meeting, you, or better yet, a trusted mentor who's in on the game announces that because A Certain Group of Students couldn't be bothered to fundraise, your team is short X amount, and therefore can't register. Because you can't register, you can't compete, and if the Certain Group of Students had raised $Y apiece, it would have been rather easy to pay registration, etc, etc.

After the news sinks in and they start complaining and wondering why (and the point gets hammered home by repetition--you didn't raise enough, so you can't compete), you announce that A Different Group of Students managed to raise $500 at the last minute, and the status given was a week old. Because of that, you can in fact compete, but you will all need to work hard like the Different Group of Students. Oh, and by the way, that includes raising funds to help with building and travel (whether you actually need said funds or not, it's always good to have a little extra).

If they don't start complaining and wondering why, then it's probably time to shrink the team. Give me 10 hard workers who are willing to learn any day over 50 people who don't do any work, even if those 50 are more qualified. (Also applies if Certain Group of Students keeps being not-productively-busy without good reason.)

OK, now for some suggestions for places to get money:
-Chamber of Commerce
-Parents/grandparents/other assorted relatives
-Small businesses
-If a local mall or somewhere like that has a fountain, ask if you can collect the change that gets thrown in.
-More demos.
-See if another local team can give you a loan/pay part of your fee outright.
-See if FIRST can arrange to give you more time. (Of course, announcement of more time should you get it could easily be handled like getting more money above.;))

[Trying to Help]

Kiwanis Club, Chamber of Commerce, any targeted youth organizations, etc. might be able to help.

I know that we've received several "we'd like to help and we stretched last year to help but we can't just do it this year" replies which I completely understand.

Do you charge a membership fee? Perhaps those non-fundraising members of your team can kick in a supplemental amount to make up for their lack of effort/success.

Trying to Help

[JaneYoung]

I'd start by taking a good look at your post and thinking about the message that you are conveying to your readers. Example: do you really need 5 bright red mad looking faces in the post? That shows anger and frustration but with a week to go, would you want to be asking for advice in a way that portrays your team in a less negative light than anger presents?

It's too late to write a letter campaign to friends and relatives of the team members via snail mail but it's not too late to send a letter via e-mail and/or make some phone calls.

Write a letter and/or 2-3 minute elevator speech to give over the phone - for the team to use this week. Give instructions on sending the e-mail or making the call to request a donation. Send that e-mail letter out to friends and loved ones asking for help and support in your effort to obtain registration costs with a deadline looming. You can give them suggested amounts but let them know that any amount will help with the registration, build, and travel costs for the team - but that right now the focus is on making the registration deadline. Ask them to respond with an answer and provide them with the mailing address to send in the monies. Make sure that address is valid and can be trusted - such as the school mentor's address or one similar. The letter presents an excellent opportunity for members of your team to share why FRC is valuable to your team and to your community.

If you don't have a good communication network with the team, pre-season is a great time to start. As it is, get the letter/information to the members of the team and let them know the importance of the deadline without assigning fault or blame. Dave Lavery has an awesome post in CD that says something about a team succeeding together and failing together. You are there. It's not you and them. It's all of you, together. I'll see if I can find Dave's gem of wisdom and share it with you.

Good luck,
Jane

[Joe G.]

Lead by example. It seems like you've done a great job with your personal fund raising already, but keep on going! You'll hear a lot about "continuous improvement" in robotics, which applies at every level, right down to fund raising. Keep up the good work! Giving up never got anyone anywhere.

The (somewhat unfortunate) simple truth is that, it is nearly impossible to evenly distribute work like this. The people who are dedicated to it are the people who get the job done. The people who are not sound like they're either not very into the club to begin with, or are expecting something for nothing. If they are in the first category, then there's not so much you can do, other than trying to get them into your team (which some people simply just won't do).

If they are expecting something for nothing, then you eventually should make sure this situation is rectified. There are already some suggestions in this thread, such as giving these members lower priority for travel, a required minimum funds threshold, having to make up the difference with participation fees, or simply guilting them into it. But this should not be your first priority. If a job needs to get done quickly, use the people who have had success with it. Yourselves.

If you find yourself getting angry at a problem, distract yourself by fixing it.


EDIT: I believe this is the post Jane is referring to. I agree, an excellent point (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=742231&postcount=13).

[Garret]

Open your phonebook and call all your local tech business and hardware stores, one by one. Say you're $500 away from your goal. Even if you get $25 from a business, you only need 20 of those to make the fee.


Calling works. My team has recieved several sponsorships this year by calling local companies. Also do not limit yourself to local businesses call wherever you think you could have a chance. Our team (students make the call only) calls the executives of companies, most of whom are out of state and has had surprisingly good luck with them. The reason for students to call is that it gives more credibility to the team because most kids are not going to go and try to scam a big company. Another reason is that it gives the appearence that this program is something that the students really want and they are obviously hoping to get something out of it.

Our mentor always tells us that if you do not ask you will never get anything.

It is probably too late to undertake a major sponsor-getting campaign but it is worth a try and $500 is not that difficult an amount to raise through sponsorships.

My team raises money mostly from seeking sponsorships so I do not have any real suggestions about fundraising (as in holding fundraisers).

Who should we talk to there?

Talk to the person in charge of the school. They are essentially the executive and as such they are the most likely to say yes. The reason being that they really do not have a boss who they can blame for not letting them sponsor you.

Hope this helps,
-Garret Smalley

[artdutra04]

Don't automatically write off students because they didn't do well raising money in fundraisers like Hexbugs. Especially in this economy, people might not have the discretionary money to buy fundraiser flair. Our team encompasses high schools from both well-off suburbs and working class inner-city areas, and we've found the most "fair" fundraising efforts were ones that involve something everyone can provide: time and elbow grease. Things like selling food at state fairs, can and bottle drives, pasta dinner fundraisers.

Fundraiser events like these elevate the responsibility from an "every man for himself" attitude into a team activity, in which the product is worth more than the sum of its parts.

[JaneYoung]

EDIT: I believe this is the post Jane is referring to. I agree, an excellent point (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=742231&postcount=13).

That is very similar to one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=349023&postcount=22) I found in my search and, it is indeed, the one I was looking for. We know one thing: Dave is consistent. On many levels, including the ones that make us want to bang our heads against a concrete wall. But, in this case - not so much.

Thanks, Joe!
Jane

[Brandon_L]

Don't automatically write off students because they didn't do well raising money in fundraisers like Hexbugs. Especially in this economy, people might not have the discretionary money to buy fundraiser flair. Our team encompasses high schools from both well-off suburbs and working class inner-city areas, and we've found the most "fair" fundraising efforts were ones that involve something everyone can provide: time and elbow grease. Things like selling food at state fairs, can and bottle drives, pasta dinner fundraisers.

Fundraiser events like these elevate the responsibility from an "every man for himself" attitude into a team activity, in which the product is worth more than the sum of its parts.

We have sponsorship packets that we made, and gave to the kids. All they have to do is make an attempt to go to a business or two. I'm fine with "Hey, I went to x business and got nothing". That shows an attempt. It just bothers me when they don't try at all.

We have a list of places to start calling, were going to do that soon. I just got home from a Dairy Queen fundraiser (10% of receipts dropped in bucket). It wasn't a great turnout, but not bad. While there we talked about possibly borrowing money from the other two teams in the area.

If you do get the $500 within the next week, I've got a suggestion.

Don't let the team members that didn't do any work on fundraising know that you made the deadline--yet.

Then, at the next team meeting, you, or better yet, a trusted mentor who's in on the game announces that because A Certain Group of Students couldn't be bothered to fundraise, your team is short X amount, and therefore can't register. Because you can't register, you can't compete, and if the Certain Group of Students had raised $Y apiece, it would have been rather easy to pay registration, etc, etc.

After the news sinks in and they start complaining and wondering why (and the point gets hammered home by repetition--you didn't raise enough, so you can't compete), you announce that A Different Group of Students managed to raise $500 at the last minute, and the status given was a week old. Because of that, you can in fact compete, but you will all need to work hard like the Different Group of Students. Oh, and by the way, that includes raising funds to help with building and travel (whether you actually need said funds or not, it's always good to have a little extra).

If they don't start complaining and wondering why, then it's probably time to shrink the team. Give me 10 hard workers who are willing to learn any day over 50 people who don't do any work, even if those 50 are more qualified. (Also applies if Certain Group of Students keeps being not-productively-busy without good reason.)

OK, now for some suggestions for places to get money:
-Chamber of Commerce
-Parents/grandparents/other assorted relatives
-Small businesses
-If a local mall or somewhere like that has a fountain, ask if you can collect the change that gets thrown in.
-More demos.
-See if another local team can give you a loan/pay part of your fee outright.
-See if FIRST can arrange to give you more time. (Of course, announcement of more time should you get it could easily be handled like getting more money above.)

I've actually thought of doing that.

Where/who would I contact for a possible extension on the deadline? Could we pay like 4,000 up front and the rest when we get it?

Thanks a ton for all the help guys!

[EricH]

You'd probably want to contact FRCTeams at usfirst.org to see about an extension. Extensions/payment plans/all that sort of thing are their department (I think--if it isn't, they'll know who to contact). And you're best off doing it well before the deadline so you can deal with whatever they say.

[Brandon_L]

You'd probably want to contact FRCTeams at usfirst.org to see about an extension. Extensions/payment plans/all that sort of thing are their department (I think--if it isn't, they'll know who to contact). And you're best off doing it well before the deadline so you can deal with whatever they say.

so email frcteams@usfirst.org?

[BEEKMAN]

If you do get the $500 within the next week, I've got a suggestion.

Don't let the team members that didn't do any work on fundraising know that you made the deadline--yet.

Then, at the next team meeting, you, or better yet, a trusted mentor who's in on the game announces that because A Certain Group of Students couldn't be bothered to fundraise, your team is short X amount, and therefore can't register. Because you can't register, you can't compete, and if the Certain Group of Students had raised $Y apiece, it would have been rather easy to pay registration, etc, etc.

After the news sinks in and they start complaining and wondering why (and the point gets hammered home by repetition--you didn't raise enough, so you can't compete), you announce that A Different Group of Students managed to raise $500 at the last minute, and the status given was a week old. Because of that, you can in fact compete, but you will all need to work hard like the Different Group of Students. Oh, and by the way, that includes raising funds to help with building and travel (whether you actually need said funds or not, it's always good to have a little extra).


Although I really do love the "Make them feel bad approach", I would definitely not go with that approach. Having worked at an amusement park for two years, I know how to deal with people, and yes, making them feel bad is definitely one way, but its definitely against what FIRST is about. I have been team captain for the past two years, and have made some huge improvements on our team--guilt was not the cause.
Instead, show the team members what happens from laziness, show them that they cannot reach their goals by slacking off. Maybe set a goal, everyone must raise $X or maybe they they have to do some supplement...like clean the toolbox?


As for the money--

Many High Schools (I assume you're with a school...?) will let you overdraw from your school account. In years past, we have been several hundred dollars short. Our school allows us to go into the negatives within our account. Maybe your mentor should ask about doing so?

Another option that has worked well for my team has been going door-to-door. We have been able to send out about 10 kids, in groups of two. Knock on doors, explain who you are, what the team is, and how it effects not only your life, but the world. THEN tell them that you are $500 short. Many people will gladly give $2-$10. Its not much, but it takes about 5 min per house. About 1/3 of the people donate at least some money.....get enough people and you're all set!

~Brendan

[Aren Siekmeier]

Many High Schools (I assume you're with a school...?) will let you overdraw from your school account.

Our team did this in 2009. At the end of the season, we were somewhere between 1 and 2 grand in debt to our school... :eek: This year, then, we managed to pay it off, and what's more end up with a slight surplus, with some revamped fundraising and not having to pay ridiculous rent on our new build space. So I would look into that, and make it a backup plan.

And yes, FRCTeams@usfirst.org (mailto:FRCTeams@usfirst.org) is the contact Eric was referring to (I don't believe it's case sensitive, unless perhaps Unix has something to do with...)

[Brandon Holley]

Although I really do love the "Make them feel bad approach", I would definitely not go with that approach.


I have to agree with this as well. Its that whole positive reinforcement aspect, where you reward good actions not punish bad ones.

The students that fundraise and are helping the team should be rewarded with something that other students would desire. Maybe they get their own set of allen wrenches, or some other tool. Maybe they get sweatshirts or some kind of swag. Whatever it is, reward the good work some students have done, and hopefully the other students will want to be apart of that too.

As for money:
A lot of good suggestions have been made already. $500 in perspective is not a lot to fundraise for your team. You guys are actually in a pretty decent position compared to some teams I know of.

You don't need to scoop up $500 in one shot, try to organize some quick and simple fundraisers like a car wash or bake sale, and you'll be surprised at how big a chunk you can take out of that goal.


Good Luck!

-Brando

[thefro526]

I know some teams do not condone of this, but I know it has worked for us in the past.

We have a Team Credit Card (Actually I believe it belongs to a Mentor, though I'm not sure) that we can use in a pinch. With an amount like $500 that's easy enough to put on a Credit Card to make Registration and then spend the next week or three fundraising to make it back. As long as you use it with the intention of extending your fundraising deadline you should be alright, but don't look at it as free money.

[Francis-134]

I wholeheartedly agree that pulling the old switcheroo on your teammates is NOT the appropriate response. While it may feel good, or feel like the right thing to do, that will do nothing but create negative feelings for your team. Not to mention that you have publicly discussed this with people in a public forum, meaning it is very easy for your teammates to find this thread and put two-and-two together.

As far as how to get your non-producing teammates to get to work, you should attempt to do other fundraising opportunities besides going to businesses. I know that personally, I have a hard time going up to people I don't know and asking for money. I tend to do it anyway when needed, but with great stress and discomfort that I would not wish on anyone. Perhaps push for more "sweat equity" fundraisers, such as bake sales, car washes etc.

Additionally, because you are so close to your goal, I would suggest soliciting an activity fee from your members. While I have no idea how many people are on your team, if one were to assume an average team of 15 people, its only $33.33 (repeating of course) per person, which IMHO is pretty reasonable. I also would suggest seeing if your school would let you overdraw on your account for a short period of time. However, only do this if you actually intend to get the money to pay them back! Going into debt to your school will hurt you in the long run if not paid off, like when you get that $5000 check from one of your sponsors, only to find out its really $3000 because of the money you owe the school.

[Ether]

Trust is something that is earned over time with honesty and integrity.

A trusted mentor will not remain trusted for very long if he abuses that trust by lying to his students to punish them.

Just my $0.02

[EricH]

On further reflection, using the approach I suggested above would not be appropriate. There is a much better approach to doing the same thing: the "because of/in spite of" approach.

In this case, we'll assume that the money is raised on time. At the next team meeting, someone says something to the effect of, "Because of students X, Y, and Z, we have raised enough to register (in spite of the lack of action of some other (unspecified) students). The amount we had to raise was $A/student; X, Y, and Z raised $B/student, while the rest averaged $C/student. Because of this level of fundraising, X, Y, and Z will have key roles at competition, especially if they continue their activity level." [insert your favorite version of TANSTAAFL here, if desired]

The negative version follows the same lines, except that it's "In spite of the effort put forth by X, Y, and Z, we were unable to register (because of the lack of effort put forth by everybody else), etc." I really hope that this does not have to be used.

The other thing is that it's possible that parents don't want their students to be selling things/fundraising door-to-door/things of that nature. That's fine, but it's a lot better if the team management is informed of this beforehand so that plans can be made around it. Some parents are like that.

[Carol]

On a team, not everyone needs to be equal in everything. I believe that most students have a talent that can be utilized. If you believe that certain students aren't pulling their weight by fundraising, then have them do some other task that they more suited for or are willing to do. As stated before, there are many reasons students won't fundraise, so unless you know the facts, don't assume.

When I was a teenager, I was terribly shy and would NEVER have been able to approach a business and ask them for money. If I was in a organization like FIRST (and I was a teenager in the Dark Ages, where there weren't many opportunities like that, especially for girls), hopefully I would have found another way to contribute.

[Brandon_L]

Thanks for the replies guys.

We stated at our last meeting a pizza party will be held for those who have made an obvious attempt (as in, somehow got money for us) at fund raising. This will be paid for by myself and the teams other captain.

I'm writing up a letter for the kids to take home to their parents, that simply states that $30 per kid at this point will get us in (30x20ish kids=600). I'm stating it as an 'entrance fee' for the kids and can be paid for out of the kid fund raising, getting sponsorships, or the parents/kid paying for it. I think its simple enough to do.

Next week for 3 or so days we have a table in our schools lunch room (school of ~1500) where we will do a "Hey, drive a robot for a dollar!" with a goal and everything set up (worked well at back to school night) as well as selling hexbugs (crabs, ants, and nanos)

As for the credit thing, I never thought of that and it is completely possible for us. Our one mentor pays for the hexbugs with his personal credit card and when we make enough to pay him back, we do. He just put in $400 for us on hexbugs, and if we make that back fast enough he is willing to buy more. I can see if I can possibly get him to put in the $500 if we get it back for him.

THANK YOU so much guys

Still 500 to go

[Tom Line]

Thanks for the replies guys.

We stated at our last meeting a pizza party will be held for those who have made an obvious attempt (as in, somehow got money for us) at fund raising. This will be paid for by myself and the teams other captain.

I'm writing up a letter for the kids to take home to their parents, that simply states that $30 per kid at this point will get us in (30x20ish kids=600). I'm stating it as an 'entrance fee' for the kids and can be paid for out of the kid fund raising, getting sponsorships, or the parents/kid paying for it. I think its simple enough to do.

Next week for 3 or so days we have a table in our schools lunch room (school of ~1500) where we will do a "Hey, drive a robot for a dollar!" with a goal and everything set up (worked well at back to school night) as well as selling hexbugs (crabs, ants, and nanos)

As for the credit thing, I never thought of that and it is completely possible for us. Our one mentor pays for the hexbugs with his personal credit card and when we make enough to pay him back, we do. He just put in $400 for us on hexbugs, and if we make that back fast enough he is willing to buy more. I can see if I can possibly get him to put in the $500 if we get it back for him.

THANK YOU so much guys

Still 500 to go

In the future, make it easy on yourself. Simply tell everyone up front that the cost will be divided evenly among the team members to enter. So if you have 30 team members, then about 5000/30 = entry fee. Then, from there, tell them that every dollar they can bring in will go to paying them back. The dedicated kids will end up having a free robotics experience, and the non-dedicated ones will be more motivated to either fund raise, or leave....

[Brandon_L]

We just got two $100 donations from two of our students family, which is awesome.

And yeah, I told them each how much they need to raise. Didn't do much though.

We had 1,000 left over from last year, and 2,500 or something like that from HTEA. I stated very clearly that 1,500/20=75 per student, and...very few hit that number.

[Steve Ketron]

A lot of teams do the pay to play format and do they whatever you achieve in fundraising is just paying you back. The key to this is that you follow through with the result. If a member doesn't fundraise or pay the $100 then they are off the team.

Because my team is traveling, my students were informed that it would cost them $500 to do all the travel or $200 for the interstate travel. If they don't participate at all in the effort then that shows their lack of committment to the team. That is not wanted on this team and they are removed from the team. If they try to raise the funds or pay the money themself, then that shows their committment to the team and they get to participate.

Now, I know some of you are going to say; "What about those students that family can't afford the funds?". I say tuff, several students and every mentor puts in lots of hours for this team. Your family doesn't have to pay any money as long as they help in the fundraising effort. It works, my team might not have reached their goals but at least they have hit the businesses and tried. Most have them have showed a level of committment by their effort. Those that have not will not be participating on this years team.

[ATannahill]

I see that a lot of teams have students approach businesses for donations. Do you have any system in place to prevent one business from being hit too many times?

[EricH]

I see that a lot of teams have students approach businesses for donations. Do you have any system in place to prevent one business from being hit too many times?
Keep a list. If a business is on the list, don't hit them because they've already been talked to (unless they've been hit up a month ago and showed interest, but nothing's happened since, when someone, ideally the student who talked to them originally, gets to ask them about status.)

[Brandon_L]

We just got over $1,300 in just one day :D were in!

[nighterfighter]

Mind telling how you raised $1300 in a day?

Our team is in a similar situation, (except we need about $4000...)

[rcmolloy]

We just got over $1,300 in just one day :D were in!

Awesome stuff Brandon! We can't wait to see you guys at both Philly and NJ.

[JaneYoung]

We just got over $1,300 in just one day :D were in!

Brandon,

You may know this already but I can't emphasize the importance of a written thank you note enough. Promptly if not sooner.

If you don't have team stationary, you can use a nice thank you card and have one of the lead mentors sign it on behalf of the team or have the whole team sign it. Make sure you have the team information in it.

We have developed a letterhead and have it available for team members to access for printing out stationary, labels, envelopes. We also have business cards that we (mentors and board members) carry (or try to remember to carry) with us wherever we go. Again, I cannot the stress the importance of this aspect of the team promotion and marketing. It presents the team in a professional manner.

A thoughtfully written thank you card can speak volumes for a team just as a picture is worth a thousand words. The organization and planning of that is as important as making the request in the first place.

Also, keep a list of the donors and their information with the business plan/information file so that members in coming years have ready access to the archives.

Jane

[Bethie42]

We just got over $1,300 in just one day :D were in!


AWESOME!! SO glad to hear this :D :D :D

[Brandon_L]

One of the students parents is an engineer, not sure if its his company or not, but the student came in with $500 today. We got another $500 from the school (first time we got money from them, ever), and the rest is $100 and $50 donations other students came in with.

Brandon,

You may know this already but I can't emphasize the importance of a written thank you note enough. Promptly if not sooner.

If you don't have team stationary, you can use a nice thank you card and have one of the lead mentors sign it on behalf of the team or have the whole team sign it. Make sure you have the team information in it.

We have developed a letterhead and have it available for team members to access for printing out stationary, labels, envelopes. We also have business cards that we (mentors and board members) carry (or try to remember to carry) with us wherever we go. Again, I cannot the stress the importance of this aspect of the team promotion and marketing. It presents the team in a professional manner.

A thoughtfully written thank you card can speak volumes for a team just as a picture is worth a thousand words. The organization and planning of that is as important as making the request in the first place.

Also, keep a list of the donors and their information with the business plan/information file so that members in coming years have ready access to the archives.

Jane

Of course, On Wednesday were starting to write them and send them out. We have a spreadsheet with all the donors.

[HannahF]

We just got over $1,300 in just one day :D were in!

CONGRATULATIONS !!!! :D I'm glad 2495 is going to be able to come to Philly this year !

[Brandon_L]

CONGRATULATIONS !!!! :D I'm glad 2495 is going to be able to come to Philly this year !

Don't know about that xD

The 500 that we needed was just for the entrance fee and NJ, we need another $4,000 for philly. Were gonna try!

Thanks for all the help guys, seriously!