iPhone Driver Station, No Computer Needed [Archive]

mobilegamer999

06-12-2010, 22:01

Title pretty much says it all.
I have created a iPhone/iPod touch (sorry iPad users) application, that allows for full, 100% control of the robot without the need for the driver station, becasue the application IS the driver station.

The app features the ability to

Enable/Disable the robot
Teleop/Autonomous Control
Read battery voltage and robot state
Full digital and analog I/O
10 joystick buttons
2 virtual joysticks
accelerometer control

Future Abilities will include

Camera View
Robot debug messages
Anything suggested that is "reasonable" :D

This app will have a few final improvements to be made (icons, splash screen, etc) but should be submitted to apple shortly. Updates will be posted on the state of the applications submission progress

Also attached are a few images of what the UI looks like so far. As always on CD, any and every comment/suggestion is more than welcome.

Edit:
This application also requires no flashing/specialized reprogramming on the robot to work, joysticks are initialized and read in as normal.

davidthefat

06-12-2010, 22:22

Can I ask how you got it to communicate with the robot without the driver station.

I always thought the communication was proprietary.

MrHance

06-12-2010, 22:23

This is great news!

But what about those that do not use the I-phone/I-touch?

Is the program able to be transfers to other systems?

Are you working on an I-Pad version?

Can this be uses for a touch screen laptop computer?

These would be excellent options for various other input devices.

Again, Great work.:rolleyes: :cool:

Ethan E

06-12-2010, 22:27

I knew that creating a custom dashboard was (relatively) simple, but was under the impression that the driver station (I/O, joysticks, enable/disable) was locked down by FIRST. Did they publish an API, or did you reverse engineer it, or what? (Sorry if the answer is obvious, I don't frequent CD too much)

mobilegamer999

06-12-2010, 22:31

@davidthefat
#EDIT
I used a mix of packet analyzer (wireshark - a program to analyze the packets being sent to/from the drivers station) and packet definitions found in WPIlib to determine how the robot and driver station communicated so I could make an iPhone application that would communicate in that manner.

@MrHance
It could be written for other systems without a tremendous amount of work, more details about what system you would like it made for would be helpful. Also, i would like to make an iPad version of this to test with, but the lack of an iPad to test with is kinda an obstacle (however i might be able to borrow one from someone)

BrendanRadabaug

06-12-2010, 22:37

really want it, cant wait to try it out and possibly break our robot with it.

kgzak

06-12-2010, 23:07

Looks sweet. I'd love to try this out. I'll be waiting. Is this app going to be free?

mobilegamer999

06-12-2010, 23:18

@kgzak
the finesse and approval process will probably take about 3 weeks or so, and im planning on either .99 or 1.99, but im leaning more towards 99 cents.

kgzak

06-12-2010, 23:50

Are you using it as a fund raiser for your team?

mobilegamer999

07-12-2010, 00:16

not really, its more of a "help me through college" deal, but if the app turned significant profit, a good portion WOULD go to my team.

nighterfighter

07-12-2010, 11:37

zwz8495

07-12-2010, 11:57

That is really amazing. I cant wait to try it out.

viperred396

07-12-2010, 12:01

Nice idea! i would love to see a port for android phones sometime :P

billbo911

07-12-2010, 12:03

Nice idea! i would love to see a port for android phones sometime :P

Ditto!

mobilegamer999

07-12-2010, 12:58

Me and my friend are hoping to make an android version, it will take me a little time to get used to the android sdk versus iPhone sdk, but I will keep everybody posted on android status :D

mobilegamer999

07-12-2010, 14:00

This sounds really interesting.

So it should work with any current robot, no matter what the programming language is? Will the cRIO properly recognize the "getY()" function from the Iphone?

Regardless, I can't wait for it to come out and test it.

Yes, the 2 virtual joysticks are mapped to when the robot does getX and getY.
and for second joystick its getRawAxis(3) - for x, and getRawAxis(4) for y

linuxboy

07-12-2010, 18:30

Also, i would like to make an iPad version of this to test with, but the lack of an iPad to test with is kinda an obstacle (however i might be able to borrow one from someone)

I have some experience with iOS programming as well as an iPad. I'd be happy to beta test the ipad version or even help with the app if you would find that agreeable. I can always email you copies of NSLog's output as well as safes of instrument runs. (At least I think you can save trials from instruments)

Good luck
Oliver

raymohi2181

07-12-2010, 18:59

Also, i would like to make an iPad version of this to test with, but the lack of an iPad to test with is kinda an obstacle (however i might be able to borrow one from someone)

I have an iPad, so I could test it and send feedback. If you would like. The current robot I would use has a verity of custom senors and outputs.

-Ray H.

DDSLoan96

07-12-2010, 19:15

When will it come out and what is it going to be called??

mobilegamer999

07-12-2010, 19:51

When will it come out and what is it going to be called??

It will most likely be called simply "Drive Station" or "FRC Driver Station" and it will be submitted to apple as soon as I make an icon and a splash image for it.

MrHance

07-12-2010, 21:09

I have been following this thread with great interest as I am sure that FRC is as well.

I am not a programmer so bear with me.

I am a Design Engineer so these questions are to help me understand the relationship of the system with the existing FRC controls.

Some other questions as far as using it at comps.

Will it be legal?

Will the WiFi signal interfere with other teams that maybe using the same applications or other application?

What is the range limitation?

How does this interface with the driver station controller?

Will this app. work with other systems like VEX, NURC and LEGO controll?

As I think of other applications I will post the questions here.

Agian, Great work and I hope this will help you all make it thru college.

mobilegamer999

07-12-2010, 21:38

MrHance, I'm glad you brought that up, and that is probably something I should have stated in the opening post, this would not be a legal control system during competitions, due to the fact that it is WiFi based and any wireless is not allowed on the field during a match except for the wireless the robots are using. On a side note to that however, I am looking into a possible way this could be modified to be a legal control method, but its unlikely that it would be very practical if it were in working, legal condition.

As far as your question of "How does this interface with the driver station controller?"
This is actually a complete replacement for the drive station, this application runs 100% independently by itself with no computer required anywhere in the system.

And No, this application is not programmed to work with the VEX,NURC, or LEGO controllers, it can only control FRC robots.

This app is mainly expected to be used for demonstration purposes, or in any circumstance where it is inconvenient/impractical/impossible to use the driver station. As far as the range of the system is concerned, if the iPhone is within the range of the WiFi network, and so is the robot, they you have control, which typically, line of sight would be about 200-300 feet, and with many walls in between about 100 feet. If you have any more questions feel free to ask me.

Tom Bottiglieri

07-12-2010, 23:37

@kgzak
the finesse and approval process will probably take about 3 weeks or so, and im planning on either .99 or 1.99, but im leaning more towards 99 cents.
Wow, this looks pretty cool! May I suggest making this a free app? I think more people would be willing to give it a shot. Even though a buck is cheap, there are a ton of people who refuse to pay for apps.

mobilegamer999

08-12-2010, 00:02

Wow, this looks pretty cool! May I suggest making this a free app? I think more people would be willing to give it a shot. Even though a buck is cheap, there are a ton of people who refuse to pay for apps.

As much as I would love to make this app free, because it IS the first community, I'm still trying to break even on the price of my apple developer license, but as soon as I break even on that, this would be the first app I would want to make free.

chemipanda

09-12-2010, 13:10

Is there a possibility to get a YouTube video up of it in action?

Fennig247

09-12-2010, 14:42

So I love the idea. I have been on the team for 9 years and wanted to see something like this come about. Luckily, there is a company that has already made an app to work with robots for the ipad and iphone. I will get more information on it but they were out in Michigan at somerset mall and where demoing off some amazing pieces of work.

mobilegamer999

09-12-2010, 23:34

Is there a possibility to get a YouTube video up of it in action?

We recorded some videos at our last meeting, and once they are editied, they will be posted here.

GaryVoshol

10-12-2010, 06:19

Mike Martus

10-12-2010, 07:36

Like Gary said.... check out AndyMark..... there is a company and developers that have this nailed down. The demo from what I have heard was great and has lots of WOW factors and is practical to some level. There are beta testers here in Michigan that have been part of the development. From what I understand the system is available, again, check out andyMark.biz as they are the retailers of it.

mobilegamer999

10-12-2010, 10:18

I saw the iAmDriver app a while ago when andymark first posted about it, but I decided to continue producing this application because this app is significantly different from iAmDriver because it doesnt cost $300, and requires no extra hardware or programming.

mobilegamer999

10-12-2010, 10:31

UPDATE
We have a youtube video of the demonstration at the last meeting. If I could still edit the main post I would put it in there, but I will put it here instead.

Link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69hdTUtH85k

Also, as far as application stage goes, were just finishing some final issues, and mostly waiting on images for the application, but it should be finished soon.

nighterfighter

10-12-2010, 15:52

Looks nice, can't wait to try it out.

EgROS

12-12-2010, 00:02

Wow this sounds really cool!

I don’t think charging 99 cents or even $1.99 is at all unreasonable. For the amount of work and ingenuity you put into this app I'm surprised you aren't charging more.

kgzak

12-12-2010, 01:18

That looks pretty awesome! I can't wait for it to come out! We are like right around the corner from you so we would be glad to help or even offer our robot(s) as test platforms for further development.

buildmaster5000

12-12-2010, 14:27

This app is mainly expected to be used for demonstration purposes, or in any circumstance where it is inconvenient/impractical/impossible to use the driver station. As far as the range of the system is concerned, if the iPhone is within the range of the WiFi network, and so is the robot, they you have control, which typically, line of sight would be about 200-300 feet, and with many walls in between about 100 feet. If you have any more questions feel free to ask me.

This is all well and good, something I am really interested in actually buying (I never buy apps for my itouch), but I have a few questions:
1. If it connects via wifi, what, if anything would have to be done to the gaming adapter on the robot?
2. For joysticks, does the app have virtual joystics on screen, or does it use the accelerometer in the device?
3. How would a user go about changing user I/O? I personally think this needs to be easily accessible at all times.

mobilegamer999

12-12-2010, 14:47

This is all well and good, something I am really interested in actually buying (I never buy apps for my itouch), but I have a few questions:
1. If it connects via wifi, what, if anything would have to be done to the gaming adapter on the robot?
2. For joysticks, does the app have virtual joystics on screen, or does it use the accelerometer in the device?
3. How would a user go about changing user I/O? I personally think this needs to be easily accessible at all times.

1) no changes need to be made to the gaming adapter
2)it uses 2 onscreen joysticks (video page 2) and the accelerometer
2) there is a screen for setting/reading digital IO and the analog inputs

buildmaster5000

12-12-2010, 14:58

1) no changes need to be made to the gaming adapter
2)it uses 2 onscreen joysticks (video page 2) and the accelerometer
2) there is a screen for setting/reading digital IO and the analog inputs

After so many "gaming adapter problems" threads, it is nice to hear that you seem to have put a lot of thought into this app. I look forward to getting my hands on it. One thought: it might be nice to have the capapbility to set the accelerometer as two joystick axis...

mobilegamer999

12-12-2010, 15:51

After so many "gaming adapter problems" threads, it is nice to hear that you seem to have put a lot of thought into this app. I look forward to getting my hands on it. One thought: it might be nice to have the capapbility to set the accelerometer as two joystick axis...

Currently the way it operates, is there is a settings page that lets you choose which joystick 'port' values are read out on.
ex. If you set joysticks to port 1, and accelerometer to port 2, in the robot code, when you initialize a joystick on port 1 by doing "Joystick j = new Joystick(1);" if your using java, it will read in the virtual joysticks, but a joystick initialized on port 2 would read in the accelerometer.

mobilegamer999

12-12-2010, 16:56

According to the forum admin I'm not allowed to advertise on their website without permission (paying for a banner) because of the possibility I am not a 'legit' business. Updates as far as application development goes will still be posted here, but it seems as though I might not be able to post when the application is released or where it can be found or the thread will be deleted. Thank you all for reading this forum and staying interested in this application and I'm sorry that I wont be able to post future release progress.

Patrickwhite

13-12-2010, 02:01

Is there some other site where interested parties could follow updates? Your project is a very interesting one, to say the very least.

mobilegamer999

13-12-2010, 09:24

mwtidd

13-12-2010, 12:29

UPDATE(big update means big font)
As a way to keep everybody informed on this application on CD, the application will be made free for everybody. That way everybody on chief Delphi can know of it's existence.

That's awesome!

Where it is going to be free are you considering open sourcing it?

Also, I'd recommend a donation request in the app itself, so people can donate to your project, and then it won't violate CD.

GGCO

13-12-2010, 12:39

mobilegamer999

13-12-2010, 13:02

That's awesome!

Where it is going to be free are you considering open sourcing it?

Also, I'd recommend a donation request in the app itself, so people can donate to your project, and then it won't violate CD.

I wasn't really planning on making it open source, however, if anybody would like me to give them in-depth details of how it was accomplished, I would be more than happy to help them. It will be on Apple's App Store as soon as I get some art made for it and it it approved.

nighterfighter

13-12-2010, 16:12

Will you have a website, where you might be willing to accept .99 donations?

mobilegamer999

14-12-2010, 02:31

mind the all-caps raging....but
THE APP HAS BEEN SUBMITTED!!!!!!
the review process should take about a week or two (probably two), I will keep everybody posted. The name of the app is "FRC Driver Station Lite"

Robototes2412

16-12-2010, 11:43

can you please post the source so i can port this to python?

i was gonna use pygame to get joystick inputs and forward them to the robot

mobilegamer999

16-12-2010, 12:09

can you please post the source so i can port this to python?

i was gonna use pygame to get joystick inputs and forward them to the robot

As stated in a previous post, I don't really want to post the source code, but if you would like me to give you an in-depth explanation of how the robot and driver station communicate so you can write your own version of the program, I would be more than happy to do so.

Robototes2412

16-12-2010, 12:55

can you do that then?

mobilegamer999

17-12-2010, 14:55

can you do that then?

I sent you a PM with all the information you need.

mobilegamer999

19-12-2010, 19:11

APP RELEASED!!
The app has been approved and released by apple. Information as well as a download link can be found on our team website located here:http://comets.firstobjective.org/iphone-app.html

Updates from now on will be posted within the link on the webpage as well as the webpage itself. Thank you everybody for your support and interest in this application. Questions can be sent to my CD account, my FirstObjective account and my email directly @ mobilegamer999@gmail.com (mailto://mobilegamer999@gmail.com)

chemipanda

19-12-2010, 20:47

Would we connect to the wireless router or the bridge on the robot?

3p1c w1n

19-12-2010, 20:48

Thanks for the app. I'll try it out as soon as I update to ios 4.1

Dave Flowerday

19-12-2010, 20:54

The app has been approved and released by apple.
You violated FIRST's logo usage requirements in your icon. Not good.

GGCO

19-12-2010, 21:28

You violated FIRST's logo usage requirements in your icon. Not good.

Were can I find these requirements/what are they? As the student web design lead for the COMETS, they'd be good to know!

Dave Flowerday

19-12-2010, 21:29

Were can I find these requirements/what are they? As the student web design lead for the COMETS, they'd be good to know!
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/resourcecenter.aspx?id=17122

Zach O

19-12-2010, 21:53

You violated FIRST's logo usage requirements in your icon. Not good.

Just came here to post that! Nice to see someone else got it though.

I plan on playing with the app later! I'd love to offer some feedback about it.

mobilegamer999

19-12-2010, 23:58

If you read the rules on usage of their logo, it is acceptable because I am part of a FIRST robotics team
Commercial entities that are supporters of FIRST Teams or programs may use the FIRST and the Joint FIRST and LEGO Trademarks (word marks and logos)

I will contact FIRST personally to get a final ruling on if it is okay or not, but in the mean-time I will look into creating a new icon.

mobilegamer999

20-12-2010, 00:38

I am truly sorry for the issue that came about, I should have read FIRST's rules regarding the usage of their logo. I found an image that is 100% CC and submitted the new application to the app store, it should only be a couple days before the new version is out. Again, i am deeply sorry for the confusion.

Dave Flowerday

20-12-2010, 01:59

If you read the rules on usage of their logo, it is acceptable because I am part of a FIRST robotics team
I was referring to the fact that you altered the logo - you moved the "FRC" text in relation to the triangle-circle-square logo and removed the "FIRST Robotics Competition" text below it, as well as the (R). Team or not, they are clear that they do not want that done, as well as a few other minor details (sufficient space around the edge of the logo, not put inside a shape or border, etc).

Whether you should even be allowed to use the logo is a separate topic. It's not clear to me based on FIRST's usage policy, but it doesn't seem right using it for your planned paid version. I would certainly get official clarification before using it, as you now say you are.

It is for these reasons that my own app in the App Store uses a custom icon. I would have preferred FIRST's official logo to mine as it is definitely better looking, but I didn't want to use it improperly or against their wishes so it was easier to just avoid it.

Andrew Schreiber

20-12-2010, 02:13

I was referring to the fact that you altered the logo - you moved the "FRC" text in relation to the triangle-circle-square logo and removed the "FIRST Robotics Competition" text below it, as well as the (R). Team or not, they are clear that they do not want that done, as well as a few other minor details (sufficient space around the edge of the logo, not put inside a shape or border, etc).

They do occasionally grant exceptions but they must be approved (see FiM logo).

mobilegamer999

20-12-2010, 04:05

I have removed all FIRST logos from all aspects of my application. I will consult FIRST personally to either better understand their copyright rules so I'm not infringing, get singular granted access, or if all else fails, use separate artwork.

keehun

20-12-2010, 07:39

I'd be interested in making this app gorgeous, UI wise... PM me if you're interested. I'll volunteer my time :P

cred: Interned at CodeMorphic (http://codemorphic.com/) for a while now... Been in a team for couple iPhone/Android projects

mobilegamer999

20-12-2010, 13:35

For anybody who has any idea/suggestions for an icon or splash screen, you can PM me about it, and if an image is chosen, your CD username (or any other info) will be added to the application.

ProgramLuke

20-12-2010, 16:33

What resolution are the icon and splash screen?

mobilegamer999

20-12-2010, 16:39

What resolution are the icon and splash screen?

57x57 for the icon, you don't need to worry about the shading or the beveling.
512x512 for the app store image

and 960x640 for the launch screen, this can be in any orientation, preferably landscape, but anything is acceptable.

Thank you.

mobilegamer999

21-12-2010, 15:53

App update was released with changed icon. Also, has anybody been able test it? If you could leave feedback here or on the app store, it would be greatly appreciated.

chemipanda

21-12-2010, 16:03

when we use this app do we connect to our router thats on the driver station or the bridge on the robot?

mobilegamer999

21-12-2010, 16:05

when we use this app do we connect to our router thats on the driver station or the bridge on the robot?

You just need to connect to the wifi network that the robot is operating on.

chemipanda

21-12-2010, 16:08

You just need to connect to the wifi network that the robot is operating on.

ok that cleared up all the questions

hipsterjr

06-01-2011, 10:10

Any one got video of them testing this app? Just downloaded it but cant get to the shop for a while.

GGCO

06-01-2011, 10:16

Any one got video of them testing this app? Just downloaded it but cant get to the shop for a while.

Yup, it's on The COMETS' youtube channel.

http://youtube.com/user/cometsrobotics

2bkrul

07-01-2011, 08:38

:ahh: That is epic. The only question is...can we use it in competition

hipsterjr

08-01-2011, 00:17

:ahh: That is epic. The only question is...can we use it in competition

I foresee a lot of controversy at competitions with these app, even though I think it is great.

Patrickwhite

08-01-2011, 20:41

With the new driver station software, are there any updates that render this unusable for the time being? It would be nice to have this able to run the kit bot from day one [two I suppose].

Natesbug73

09-01-2011, 00:19

Has anyone heard whether this is legal to use in competition? I can't see why it wouldn't be, is there anything that says you [I]have[I]to use the netbook and joysticks?
Technology is ever changing, and the fact that a team has created a virtual driver station using a technology that so many members already own should be embraced!!

jhersh

09-01-2011, 00:57

:ahh: That is epic. The only question is...can we use it in competition

Has anyone heard whether this is legal to use in competition? I can't see why it wouldn't be, is there anything that says you [I]have[I]to use the netbook and joysticks?
Technology is ever changing, and the fact that a team has created a virtual driver station using a technology that so many members already own should be embraced!!

You would have to ask on the Rules Q&A, but I don't see any chance of this being allowed. The app doesn't support communicating with the Field Management System and there is no Ethernet plug on your iPhone to plug it into the field.

Rule R52 in Section 4 of the Rules pretty clearly disallows the app in its current form...

One D-Link DAP-1522 is the only permitted mechanism for communicating to and from the ROBOT during the MATCH. All signals must originate from the OPERATOR CONSOLE and/or the Field Management System, and be transmitted to the ROBOT via the official ARENA hardware. No other form of wireless communications shall be used to communicate to, from or within the ROBOT (e.g. radio modems from previous FIRST competitions and Bluetooth devices are not permitted on the ROBOT during competition).

-Joe

mobilegamer999

09-01-2011, 03:07

With the new driver station software, are there any updates that render this unusable for the time being? It would be nice to have this able to run the kit bot from day one [two I suppose].

More on this when I am able to test, because I dont know if their protocol has changed with the season update, I will keep you/everybody informed.

As for using this in a competiton
NO
this is dis-allowed on a couple fronts, mainly the fact that there are no wireless communications allowed on the field other than the robots. The only way this would be allowed as an actual, legal control method, is if the application outputted necessary information via the connection port, and that data was then processed by a micro-controller of some sort with an Ethernet connection and then sent to the FMS. While that is kind of an annoying way to do it, I have been looking into the possibility/plausibility/practicality of the system.

Patrick Chiang

09-01-2011, 03:23

Wow. This is amazing stuff!

Even though it's probably not going to be allowed in the competitions, can you give us a brief (or long, whatever works) description of how you got this to work? Did you just capture packets and got the app to emulate sending them out? (Because last year, we tried to write our own customized dashboard using Java and we couldn't figure out how the communication works.) Thanks!

twiggzee

05-10-2011, 13:08

has there been any luck with an android version of this yet?

byteit101

05-10-2011, 15:54

has there been any luck with an android version of this yet?

I know someone on our team is (was?) working on something (albeit rather slowly). He's been rather busy though, and if you want to finish it, you can have a rather simple joystick only driver (and do send the patch/pull request back to him). You'd only need to hook up the joysticks to the sending function (based off ZomB) Its on Bitbucket: https://bitbucket.org/Ancantus/android_zomb