2011 Game Hint #1

[unionylibertad]

they have alternated between balls as game pieces
not the last two years...
I think they should stay away from storage bins for a while
actually, 2004 was pretty interesting IMHO

[rahilm]

they have alternated between balls as game pieces (though I think they should stay away from storage bins for a while...) and other things as game pieces ... if they keep that going ... guess there's a possibility of a weird piece this year since they did soccer balls last year.


2008 (giant trackball), 2009 (orbit balls), 2010 (soccer balls) have all been years using a ball of some sort.

[unionylibertad]

i say there is a 90% chance that they will not use balls this coming season

id say there's a 55% chance that pool noodles will be used

[IndySam]

That would mean clowns.

clowns are scary!

[Karibou]

i say there is a 90% chance that they will not use balls this coming season

id say there's a 55% chance that pool noodles will be used

Is that 55% a chance of pool noodles being used outside of bumpers, or are you suspecting that there's a 55% chance of bumpers being used?

Edit: I also found this in the spotlights. It was from last year's thread about Dave's "hint" http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=880922&postcount=44

(someone please tell me that I'm not the only one laughing about how train tracks came up LAST year as well)

[unionylibertad]

^as game pieces :)

[RoboDesigners]

(someone please tell me that I'm not the only one laughing about how train tracks came up LAST year as well)

You're not the only one... :)

[alectronic]

^as game pieces :)
Can you imagine the numbers of destroyed pool noodles as a result of that? I think it would be unlikely they are the game piece, but the shape would be interesting.

[davidthefat]

Apparently, the Lunacy's hint was a Moonfish. That had no connection with the game play what so ever, but had connections with the name and theme. Now what if the locomotion is a hint about theme? Locomotion = Railroads = Wild Wild West? Possibly a "desert" themed game. The purpose of the game is to move and posses water bottles or something. Since when you think of desert, you think of lack of water. Possibly capture the flag or something similar to the railroad building. Where the alliances try to conquer more ground than the other alliance before the timer runs out. Just like how the Union Pacific and Central Pacific were doing in the late 1800s

Or territory control like in the civil war. More railroads led to the Union victory. The more railroad you control, the higher chances of you winning the game.

[rahilm]

Apparently, the Lunacy's hint was a Moonfish. That had no connection with the game play what so ever, but had connections with the name and theme.

It had a direct connection with gameplay. The surface was meant to imitate the moon's reduced gravity with reduced friction.

[JaneYoung]

Apparently, the Lunacy's hint was a Moonfish. That had no connection with the game play what so ever, but had connections with the name and theme. Now what if the locomotion is a hint about theme? Locomotion = Railroads = Wild Wild West? Possibly a "desert" themed game. The purpose of the game is to move and posses water bottles or something. Since when you think of desert, you think of lack of water. Possibly capture the flag or something similar to the railroad building. Where the alliances try to conquer more ground than the other alliance before the timer runs out. Just like how the Union Pacific and Central Pacific were doing in the late 1800s

Or territory control like in the civil war. More railroads led to the Union victory. The more railroad you control, the higher chances of you winning the game.

What if it is a different type of locomotion?

[Karibou]

Can you imagine the numbers of destroyed pool noodles as a result of that? I think it would be unlikely they are the game piece, but the shape would be interesting.

Do you remember the 2009 Orbit Balls? I don't believe that a single one made it out of that competition perfectly in tact.

[davidthefat]

What if it is a different type of locomotion?

Like the video of the NCAA 10 locomotion a few pages back? Or like literal Loco = crazy motion? or just movement in general? Or referring to the various other art forms titled "locomotion"? Who knows?

BTW this was posted using the class mate running Puppy Linux:yikes:

[tonystark_23]

Classmate with Pupply Linux FTW!!!!!

[JaneYoung]

Like the video of the NCAA 10 locomotion a few pages back? Or like literal Loco = crazy motion? or just movement in general? Or referring to the various other art forms titled "locomotion"? Who knows?


Perhaps giving yourself an opportunity to understand it better. Do a search for it. It's a great word to apply to the science aspect of things that you enjoy. Look at it in the context of motion. Don't necessarily make assumptions and giant leaps without doing some work. That's what I am saying.

Jane

[yarden.saa]

http://wikileaks.com/
They know what the game is but someone in FIRST caused the site to don't work






just a joke - we will know the game at the kick off

[underachiever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5OoQadZTPk

maybe the human players will have to do the dance? that would be fun xD

[Robert Cawthon]

But, if Chuck Norris is infinity, what happends if you trap Chuck Norris AND Billfred? Undefined score?:confused:

Infinity minus infinity equals infinity. Simple math.

[TabooMonster123]

OK, if that's Little Eva as David found in his reverse image search, then her big hit was "Locomotion". Another cart/trailer game?

Mike

Maybe, but she was also awarded a golden disk... Perhaps we'll have to throw and catch Frisbees?:D

[TabooMonster123]

Ok my first thought when i saw stand by was the pressure pads used in 2005 for tetra loading.
And my thought on the stairs and his 30,000ft comment was maybe you have to climb stairs to a 2nd level of the competition field.
Something is also just telling me that the vertical lines in both the beam and her shirt have some significance along with that shirt having 5 buttons also in a vertical pattern.
And a hint towards climbing is also present because she is wrapping her arms around the beam.

Aren't all buttons arranged in a vertical pattern? XP
But I agree that her arm may indicate climbing.

[Thing2_1723]

Maybe, but she was also awarded a golden disk... Perhaps we'll have to throw and catch Frisbees?:D

2011 is going to have the World Championships Beach Ultimate 2011 with Ultimate Frisbee... :D

[PAR_WIG1350]

Locomotion--> trains
trains are articulated vehicles
maybe they have modified the bumper rules to allow some type of frame articulation.

[Arefin Bari]

... Still not pulling out my hair Dave. :)

[Cyberphil]

... Still not pulling out my hair Dave. :)

Agreed! Not quite as aggravating as past years, although it is interesting to see all of the connections showing up here and there...

[Randy Picolet]

Agreed! Not quite as aggravating as past years, although it is interesting to see all of the connections showing up here and there...
Oh man... Haven't you ever heard the saying, "Don't spit into the wind?"... Please don't challenge the guy to come up with harder clues; don't you realize the power he has over us?

Dave, they didn't mean it, really, ask them! This is a wonderfully challenging clue, and I'm sure no one has come even close to guessing... ;)

[greivousfan226]

both of Little Eva's albums have to do with trains, The Loco-Motion, and Back on Track. Lavery's summer picture shows a trip to the trainyard. Put the 2 together and you have kind of the like the lunacy game, in that you probably will hauling around a "trailer train". As for the game pieces, the trailers could be the game pieces, so the team that has the most trailers hooked on, wins the match. Just a thought...

[greivousfan226]

here's the image that first probably used

http://www.spectropop.com/gallery/d/1303-2/Little+Eva.jpg

[GaryVoshol]

here's the image that first probably used



Which had already been posted 6 times in this thread.

[gustagoose]

All I know is that I'm gonna sit back, enjoy my Haagen Dazs, and listen to Eva. It is very fun to speculate with you guys!

[Cuog]

Something to consider about Penn Station is the copious use of columns in its original construction. There's also a lot of interesting info on the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Station_(New_York_City)#Original_stru cture_.281910.E2.80.931963.29 Including that fact that Penn station has been in operation for just over 100 years and one month.

[metalsoft]

I'm guessing the challenge is to stack rectangular bars up on the columns look here in this picture title: http://people.csail.mit.edu/hanna/Egypt/index20.html
http://people.csail.mit.edu/hanna/Egypt/architecture.jpg

[Katie_UPS]

Well, I was thinking. Little Eva is a human, and humans are mostly made of... WATER!
Also, she sang locomotion... and what's sort of power is used? Steam Power! Steam is the gaseous form of what liquid? WATER!

All roads lead to a water game. ;)

[metalsoft]

The game might be about stacking bars atop of the columns, this hint is just like the hint from lunacy where they gave a fish called the "moon fish" but here its about the column and what its used for. maybe they mean as in the way they would set up the columns to create buildings. this game might be one in which we must stack something

http://people.csail.mit.edu/hanna/Egypt/index20.htmlhttp://people.csail.mit.edu/hanna/Egypt/architecture.jpg

[IndySam]

... Still not pulling out my hair Dave. :)

newlyweds don't count.

[Czukkiemonster]

both of Little Eva's albums have to do with trains, The Loco-Motion, and Back on Track. Lavery's summer picture shows a trip to the trainyard. Put the 2 together and you have kind of the like the lunacy game, in that you probably will hauling around a "trailer train". As for the game pieces, the trailers could be the game pieces, so the team that has the most trailers hooked on, wins the match. Just a thought...

I feel like this is along the right track, pardon the pun.
But putting two and two together, there has been a lot of hits towards trains.
the game peice I doubt will be round this year, how many years has it been since it's been something other than round? perhaps it may be a "trailer"
hmmmm sooo many possiblities :ahh:

[CHHS_METALSKINS]

HER NAME IS LITTLE EVA. SHE WAS A SINGER. SHE SANG THE SONG LOCOMOTION! THE ONE THE BEACH BOYS SING!

[wrenauld]

A student team member pointed out that is a picture of Little Eva. She had a hit dance song Loco Motion that was a later covered by another group. It is pointed out that the picture is a cover picture and it is reversed. Lettering is also missing.

Maybe we will be doing a brand new dance.:) :) :)

[nadya1196]

what i think is that it may have something to do also with some of the other people that recorded this song
some of the others that recorded this song are:Grand Funk Railroad, Dave Stewart and Barbara Gaskin, Kylie Minogue (who had very big success with it worldwide), Sylvie Vartan, and La Toya Jackson

what really to me stood out of all of these was Kylie Minogue
so im not sure if that could help, but yeah thats what i came up with so far based on the song Locomotion

[DarrinMunter]

Someone awhile back posted that EVA is NASA's term for "EXTRAVEHICULAR ACTIVITY"

Thought #1 FIRST likes to keep NASA happy - they give us funding.
Thought #2 FIRST has a big push for FTC to grow.
Thought #3 FIRST is giving FRC teams a discount if they start a FTC team.
Thought #4 FIRST Choice has FTC parts as one of the choices.

In keeping with the train idea, what if the FRC robot had to tow a small FTC size robot? - In which clue #2 will hopefully tell us what the small robot needs to do.

[Fletch1373]

Infinity minus infinity equals infinity. Simple math.

wouldn't it have to be 0 though? the commutative property of addition...

infinity - infinity = infinity...
-infinity + infinity = -infinity... right?

[RyanReneRobot]

OMG! An locomotive track over a huge pool, but that wouldn't allow teams to move as freely... hoever "Locomotion" seems like a great name for the game. Teams being forced to make chains seems great, but different teams might have different ideas on how to hook up to other robots. Unless FIRST regulates the ways you can hook up, it won't be very creative. I looked up the invention of the locomotive (1781) so IDK if 229 or 230 means anything. I LOVE this time of year! :P


Where is this water idea coming from that everyone is speaking about? I've read this whole thread &I dont understand why everyone believes that this may be a water game..

[Randy Picolet]

wouldn't it have to be 0 though? the commutative property of addition...

infinity - infinity = infinity...
-infinity + infinity = -infinity... right?
I think infinity minus infinity is undefined. You can add and multiply (the result is still inifinity) but not subtract or divide. So (somebody correct me if I'm wrong):

inf + inf = inf
(-inf) + (-inf) = -(inf + inf) = -inf
inf x inf = inf
(-inf) x (-inf) = (-1 x -1)(inf x inf) = inf

inf - inf => undefined
inf/inf => undefined

Weird, but infinity is not actually a number, but a concept of increase beyond bounds.

[Randy Picolet]

Where is this water idea coming from that everyone is speaking about? I've read this whole thread &I dont understand why everyone believes that this may be a water game..
It's an old running gag on game hint threads; it will never happen (for safety and cost reasons). Some folks just like to figure out extremely circuitous/nebulous paths to that conclusion. Like everythiong else here, you can read 'em, join 'em, or ignore 'em. Sometimes they are fairly creative...

[Dustin Shadbolt]

Where is this water idea coming from that everyone is speaking about? I've read this whole thread &I dont understand why everyone believes that this may be a water game..

Just an old tradition on CD. :P

[EricH]

Back in the day, there was speculation that there would be water. It is possible to run an FRC robot on a soaking wet field.

However, it is logistically impossible, so it's now just a joke.

As for infinity minus infinity:
1) The origination of this hint was a suggestion that trapping Billfred in a certain field area was worth negative infinity. It isn't, it's worth a caption contest. (JVN is a caption contest and negative infinity.)
2) Depending on how you think of infinity, you could come up with zero (I have an infinite number of robots, and I give you all of them), infinity (I give you half of that number of robots), or a number (I give you all but X finite number of robots). Because there are 3 different answers to the same problem, it is not defined. (And I suppose that you could come up with similar situations to have it be negative.)

[dlavery]

However, it is logistically impossible, so it's now just a joke.

I love it when someone tells me I can't do something.






.

[marwahaha]

I know this is late, and most people have gone, but here are some more thoughts...

I like the EVA extra-vehicular activity. but particularly this link:
(From wikipedia)
The first (and only) three-person EVA was performed on May 13, 1992, as the third EVA of STS-49, the maiden flight of Endeavour.[5] Pierre Thuot, Richard Hieb, and Thomas Akers conducted the EVA to hand-capture and repair a non-functional Intelsat VI-F3 satellite. See photo at right.

1992 was the maiden year for FIRST.
also, in the 1992 EVA there were 3 "people" to repair something, working together.... similar to 3 "machines" to do something, working together in an alliance.

Like...coopertition! an idea FIRST has been particularly pushing these past couple of years. And we've had 3-person alliances for a while now.

So maybe the three alliance members are working together to grab or build something or lift each other up, racing the other alliance? This would be non-contact and a serious focus on coopertition and working together.

In addition, pillars could be holding something up, that the goal is to reach or attach an object upon the pillars, working together with your alliance? I like the idea of a second-story but am unsure how it could be truly practical. possibly like the ball-return towers of Breakaway?

Also: if locomotion and 1992 are important, then why not have the field covered in tennis balls? similar to the 1992 game of maize craze. that way, we would tie in the idea of a new "bumpy" playing field for new drive techniques, while working on top of the tennis balls to create something new.

AND: Maize craze was played with a layer of corn as the playing field. A non-smooth playing field has been built before, and having one this year would be yet another reference to the past.

So...idea for a game name? To tie in all of the concepts, i like "Working Upward" or "Building Up" or "Reaching Skyward" or something like that. In 1992 we had to herd the tennis balls, now we work on top, building upon past ideas and innovations.

......................

but another idea for a game name: Smoke and Mirrors.
why? because it sounds cool, and locomotion-->trains-->smoke...and mirrors because the picture is flipped. maybe mirrors has something to do with the task each alliance would receive, like positioning mirrors to point lasers or see the other alliance over a wall...

This will be an interesting game. We will have fun this year :cool:

[IndySam]

It's an old running gag on game hint threads; it will never happen (for safety and cost reasons).

Back in the day, there was speculation that there would be water. It is possible to run an FRC robot on a soaking wet field.

However, it is logistically impossible, so it's now just a joke.


Wait, what, a joke?



PS don't poke the bear!

[nil_lp]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loco-Motion_(arcade_game)

thoughts?

[alicen]

I think I've read several times now the suggestion of the entire field being covered in tennis balls to create an uneven terrain (referencing to Maize Craze and "Loco-motion"). Personally, I don't see this as much of an option because there are so many rules implemented for the safety of volunteers and competitors alike.

Remember last year, how you could not walk across the bump carrying your robot? Now imagine a floor covered in tennis balls that you've decided to walk around on for fun. Add 150 pounds of robot and it's a recipe for disaster and hospitals. I realize that some people might try to refute this argument and say they'll add the tennis balls after all the robots are on the field, but logistics of picking up and depositing THAT many tennis balls is insane. The turn over rate for matches would go from 5 minutes to 30. And in the past couple years, the push for more matches (meaning lower turn over rates) has been obvious.

Personally, I think the game is going to be called Locomotion, the game pieces will not be round (the last students to see non-spherical game pieces have now all graduated, or at least are supposed to), and autonomous will have more importance*.

*Every year there is one aspect of the game that is weaker than the others. Human Player for Overdrive for example. I think that based on opinions gathered at regionals and Championships and after, the GDC tries to improve on that aspect to make a more well-rounded game. This is why I think autonomous will gain a lot of importance this year.

[Dustin Shadbolt]

I love it when someone tells me I can't do something.






.

:p

[BIGWILLI2081]

PS don't poke the bear!

I love it when someone tells me I can't do something.

too late!:yikes:

[Lil' Lavery]

http://wikileaks.com/
They know what the game is but someone in FIRST caused the site to don't work






just a joke - we will know the game at the kick off

FYI, it's not wikileaks.com. It was originally .org, but now has a list of regional mirrors that can be found at http://wikileaks.info/.

[DonRotolo]

Something to consider about Penn Station is the copious use of columns in its original construction. There is more than one Penn station.
I love it when someone tells me I can't do something.Double-dog dare!

(I predict that Mr. Lavery will be dousing me with water when we next meet.)::safety::

[theprgramerdude]

wouldn't it have to be 0 though? the commutative property of addition...

infinity - infinity = infinity...
-infinity + infinity = -infinity... right?

Infinity minus infinity is undefined. Not all infinity's are created equal (since it's not a defined number), and thus you can't tell when one infinity is equal to another infinity.

[rahilm]

Infinity minus infinity is undefined. Not all infinity's are created equal (since it's not a defined number), and thus you can't tell when one infinity is equal to another infinity.
Wouldn't this be equivalent to lim x->infinity (x-x) ? This would equal 0 since x-x = 0
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=limit+as+x+goes+to+infinity+of+x-x

[Randy Picolet]

Wouldn't this be equivalent to lim x->infinity (x-x) ? This would equal 0 since x-x = 0
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=limit+as+x+goes+to+infinity+of+x-x
Nah, to evaluate the expression "x - x" you have to assume substitution of both occurences with the exact same real numeric value (however large). Infinity is not an actual number or value; it is the concept of increasing without bounds. In other words, the limit approach (while correct) is not equivalent to actually trying to subtract one infinity from another...

[Karibou]

Nah, to evaluate the expression "x - x" you have to assume substitution of both occurences with the exact same real numeric value (however large). Infinity is not an actual number or value; it is the concept of increasing without bounds. In other words, the limit approach (while correct) is not equivalent to actually trying to subtract one infinity from another...

So if infinity is a concept...is mathematical manipulation of a concept possible?

[dlavery]

Double-dog dare!

Here, put your tongue on this flag pole....







.

[Justin Montois]

Here, put your tongue on this flag pole....



http://static.thepioneerwoman.com/homeschooling/files/2010/01/tongue1.jpg

The best way to get it off is with a nice hot glass of.....:eek:

[Bill_B]

http://static.thepioneerwoman.com/homeschooling/files/2010/01/tongue1.jpg

The best way to get it off is with a nice hot glass of.....:eek:
I was thinking of an available warm liquid not usually found in a glass. ;)

[Shalmezad]

dlavery is at it again with the multiple blank lines.
But why use multiple lines unless you wanted your post to be tall?
Like a pillar...

And the comment itself: "Here, put your tongue on this flag pole...."
yet again, pillar/pole.

View from 30,000 ft? tall/climbing/vertical.

My guess? maybe trying to retrieve a flag from a pole for bonus points?

and of course, Little Eva's "Locomotion": "come on baby, jump up, jump back"

Could be anything at this point. Ah well, only a few more days left...

edit: Also, http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3178682 shows the posts. Multiple instances of multiple blank lines...

Final note though, maybe we could be following the wrong track. "Lavery red herrings: Numerous. Random sayings, faked pictures, comments about whack the Billfred being the game, you name it. Epic red herring was the morse-code signature spacing for the 2010 season. And yes, some herrings are red when Dave posts them. Typically 3-4 or more per season."
via. EricH http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88042
Also, the multiple lines goes back to Feb. 19, so unless the GDC finished early...

[zachmartin1806]

I'm not trying to knock the idea of a water game but how would that be cost effective? Plus the water would need to be above ground. But if it does have anything to do with stairs you could look at team 71's robot from I believe 2002.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

After finally going through all 500 and something posts, I have come to a conclusion.

This may mean nothing but last year at the Las Vegas regional, my mentor was having a very interesting conversation with Bill Miller and Bill asked what would you like to see in next years game. There was then a pretty interesting conversation of having an obstacle course. I think the game is going to be just that. The way you might play it is by moving a trolley around a simple obstacle course around the field. Robots could get through the obstacles faster by performing certain tasks giving that "Veteran Team" advantage over rookie teams. Throughout this obstacle course, many features from past games will be involved such as getting past stairs. Of course this is just an educated guess and may be totally irrelevant to what the game really is but this is just something to think about.

[davidthefat]

After finally going through all 500 and something posts, I have come to a conclusion.

This may mean nothing but last year at the Las Vegas regional, my mentor was having a very interesting conversation with Bill Miller and Bill asked what would you like to see in next years game. There was then a pretty interesting conversation of having an obstacle course. I think the game is going to be just that. The way you might play it is by moving a trolley around a simple obstacle course around the field. Robots could get through the obstacles faster by performing certain tasks giving that "Veteran Team" advantage over rookie teams. Throughout this obstacle course, many features from past games will be involved such as getting past stairs. Of course this is just an educated guess and may be totally irrelevant to what the game really is but this is just something to think about.
Now lets say that is this year's game, how would one score? Would it be based on time, the number of "short cuts" taken or what?

[Randy Picolet]

So if infinity is a concept...is mathematical manipulation of a concept possible?
Kinda depends on what you mean by "mathematical". If you mean just real-number arithmetic and algebra, then no, infinity is not a real number, and cannot be manipulated as if it were.

On the other hand, math is a lot bigger than just arithmentic and algebra, and all of its various fields and specialties can just be considered to be "manipulations" of "concepts"; i.e. math, including arithmetic and algebra, is purely conceptual. Numbers themselves (of any sort) are just concepts with which we associate symbols/digits for purposes of communication (the numbers exist in our heads independently of their symbols).

I know, I know, I got kinda abstract for a game hint thread, and what's this got to do with Little Eva anyway? :cool:

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Now lets say that is this year's game, how would one score? Would it be based on time, the number of "short cuts" taken or what?It probably wouldn't be based on time but how many obstacles you got through before time expires and if you finish the obstacle you would most likely go through it again.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

After finally going through all 500 and something posts, I have come to a conclusion.

This may mean nothing but last year at the Las Vegas regional, my mentor was having a very interesting conversation with Bill Miller and Bill asked what would you like to see in next years game. There was then a pretty interesting conversation of having an obstacle course. I think the game is going to be just that. The way you might play it is by moving a trolley around a simple obstacle course around the field. Robots could get through the obstacles faster by performing certain tasks giving that "Veteran Team" advantage over rookie teams. Throughout this obstacle course, many features from past games will be involved such as getting past stairs. Of course this is just an educated guess and may be totally irrelevant to what the game really is but this is just something to think about.

i was part of that conversation along with my advisor at the LV Regional.. i do agree with you.. he [Bill] had mentioned how people think robots should be more autonomous just like dean kaemon had suggested to people.. this could be interesting

[EricH]

Dave: I take it that NASA is volunteering their training tanks for competition use? Otherwise, we're all going to have a tough time!:p

Shalmezad: You've got the wrong start date for the blank lines. Well, it may be the right day, but it's been at least since 2005. I'm pretty sure Dave just wants to have his signature somewhat down from the text in the post, and a period (or, as was the case last fall, Morse Code) is about the only way to do that without vBulletin helpfully removing all the blank space.




.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

so.. im just violently confused.. another thread posted this "lavery summer vacation" or something like that.. enjoy the headache.. train.. and stairs.. + dave.. NOT COOL.. ::rtm::

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/459/459b7a347e7cd2dd8156a992e59715ef_m.jpg

if i was not allowed to post something from another thread i apologize in advance

[Karibou]

That was JVN being a confusing meanie. That picture is just a picture of Dave (and others) while on vacation during the summer, and it has no intentional relation to this year's game. JVN must have thought that it was funny after the topic of trains came up in this thread. Just to keep things straight, Dave Lavery is the only one currently interfering with this thread who knows what the game is, so nobody else knows how relevant the train picture may or may not be.

...so if the game DOES involve stairs and trains, JVN will be regarded as some kind of psychic hero.

[Elgin Clock]

A keyword search indicates this has not been mentioned before in this entire thread. I doubt that is true, but hey.. searches never lie right? :rolleyes:
Anyways...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Little_Eva%22_B-24_Liberator

Very interesting little bit of history there with a blatantly obvious name connection.

[Tyler Hicks]

I noticed that First says "check out the 2011 game hint"....does this mean they'll only give us that one hint? I don't remember if they usually put a #1 by it.

[rsisk]

I think JVN just wanted an excuse to spend 4 hours sweeping the shop floor.

From Facebook:
JVN
Any Robowrangler student I catch talking about the game hint gets 4 hours shop sweeping duty. No exceptions. Enjoy the holiday!

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Because I am bored and have no life, I have decided to make a diagram and a list of possible obstacles if the game were an obstacle course with a train theme.

Obstacle List

Getting over stairs
Shooting a ball into a lunacy-like goal
Going over a bump to activate 2 switches that must be held down at same time while on a corn field
Throwing a ball(maybe not as big as overdrive) over a goal
Shooting a football into a high goal while scoring a soccer ball XD
Etc

Note that if no robots can do a task then they will have to take the longer way by driving around.

Again this is just an educated guess.

[DonRotolo]

I'm pretty sure Dave just wants to have his signature somewhat down from the text in the post, and a period (or, as was the case last fall, Morse Code) is about the only way to do that without vBulletin helpfully removing all the blank space.Dave posted an explanation to that effect 2 or 3 years ago.
Dave Lavery is the only one currently interfering with this thread who knows what the game is, so nobody else knows how relevant the train picture may or may not be. Maybe it means we'll have to participate in some kind of Training...?:rolleyes:
I noticed that First says "check out the 2011 game hint"....does this mean they'll only give us that one hint? I don't remember if they usually put a #1 by it.The short answer is "we don't know". Some years there is only one clue, some years there are more than one. We will not know for certain until Kickoff.

[Dick Linn]

Infinity minus infinity is undefined. Not all infinity's are created equal (since it's not a defined number), and thus you can't tell when one infinity is equal to another infinity.

Some are metric. ;)

[JaneYoung]

A keyword search indicates this has not been mentioned before in this entire thread. I doubt that is true, but hey.. searches never lie right? :rolleyes:
Anyways...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Little_Eva%22_B-24_Liberator

Very interesting little bit of history there with a blatantly obvious name connection.

It's another Australia reference and in the North Territory.

It's about time you joined in, Elgin! You've shed a different light on the use of tracks/tracking.

[Fennig247]

Now this is a very confusing hint and still is throwing us all for a loop. Love all the ideas being tossed around. I am wondering if since we are going for the 20th anniversary, if we will maybe be doing a repeat or a remake of "Maize Craze".

Reasons why it could be:
1. "Locomotion" can be used to move and haul trailers around the field to herd tennis balls.
2. The columns look just like trailers.
3. The fact she is holding onto the column like the robots could use to haul them around the field to make it more interesting.

Just figure I would throw my hat in the ring. See what others are thinking.

[Fennig247]

Here's thought for food:

People keep hinting at stairs, correct? This is a special year in FIRST, correct? Stairs have been used in a previous game, correct?

What other previous game elements/features can you extract from this game hint? It's possible we're seeing a combination of games from years past.



This is another key idea. I mean a lot of other games fall into this picture.

"Zone Zeal" was moving trailers that you had to latch onto and move around and collect balls in there
"Raising the Bar" had to deal with the stairs
"Aim High", "Stack Attack, "Ramp and Roll" all had ramps to climb up to score points.

I mean there is multiple different ideas. Maybe there taking the best of all the worlds and pulling out one piece in each game and make it an awesome 20th anniversary game!!

[dodar]

Now this is a very confusing hint and still is throwing us all for a loop. Love all the ideas being tossed around. I am wondering if since we are going for the 20th anniversary, if we will maybe be doing a repeat or a remake of "Maize Craze".

Reasons why it could be:
1. "Locomotion" can be used to move and haul trailers around the field to herd tennis balls.
2. The columns look just like trailers.
3. The fact she is holding onto the column like the robots could use to haul them around the field to make it more interesting.

Just figure I would throw my hat in the ring. See what others are thinking.

never thought about the pole looking like a trailer but it does. Since she is kind of holding it from the front, and that guy in JVN's train picture is trying to push it, maybe its like a reverse Lunacy game where instead of the trailer being ni the back of your robot that it has to be connected in the front of your robot.

[GaryVoshol]

... so if the game DOES involve stairs and trains, JVN will be regarded as some kind of psychic hero.

As opposed JVN already being regarded as a technological hero.

Or perhaps Dave got some very good ideas while on vacation ......

[dag0620]

Just one thought...

2009 Lunacy - Besides the Name being mooned theme, Lunacy also means commotion, craziness, and just no sense.

Locomotion - Same idea can also mean craziness and commotion.

I can't make a conclusion out of this, but a similarity I noticed and wanted to throw out there.

[frank.pendzich]

I believe the woman in the photograph is a young Little Eva. Could it be that we're going to do the Locomotion? Swing hips... jump up... jump back... make a chain. Whoa Whoa

[Grim Tuesday]

Alright, this is the original image.

http://www.spectropop.com/gallery/d/1303-2/Little+Eva.jpg


Look at what it says at the bottom: 1650 broadway.

The year 1650 had many things in it, also both it and 2011 start on a Saturday. Coincidence?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1650

[Fennig247]

Just an FYI. Dimension Records (the company that made this all happen for little eva) is a record company company that was concentrated on girl group sounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension_Records

Is that what first is all about. Finding the hidden talent in what others could not see before?

[dabig hammer]

i feel like im the only one who noticed that dlavery changed his avatar to a train... and when you put it with his summer vacation pic and that little eva's big hit was locomotion either hes got a thing for trains or the game is trains... but its almost like hes tryin to make it too obvious so basically i have no idea:confused:

[Grim Tuesday]

i feel like im the only one who noticed that dlavery changed his avatar to a train... and when you put it with his summer vacation pic and that little eva's big hit was locomotion either hes got a thing for trains or the game is trains... but its almost like hes tryin to make it too obvious so basically i have no idea:confused:

No, my friends and I have taken note of it too. We just feel like it's either a red herring or not. Which gets us nowhere.

[dabig hammer]

it just seems like everyone is overanalyzing everything but with dave something crazy might be exactly right ya know? i love this :D

[JVN]

That was JVN being a confusing meanie.

Only to those people who spent their holiday deciphering game "hints". The rest of us are just enjoying a laugh!

-John

[BJC]

This thread is getting very repetitive.

We should start doing this.

http://xkcd.com/307/

[dabig hammer]

hey wasnt there something in this thread about a robowrangler discussing game hints and the consequences thereof being 4 hours of shop sweeping duty?

[BJC]

hey wasnt there something in this thread about a robowrangler discussing game hints and the consequences thereof being 4 hours of shop sweeping duty?

"Do what I say, not what I do."

Edit: JVN, sorry if you took offense, I was joking.
I really respect you. (perhaps I should have used a sacastic smily?)

[JVN]

"Do what I say, not what I do."

You're implying hypocrisy that isn't present.

The point was I didn't want our students expending brainpower trying to figure out the hint -- I assure you, I haven't. In fact, I haven't even looked at the hint. Someone at work told me "it has something to do with trains."

-John

[pfreivald]

This thread is getting very repetitive.

We should start doing this.

http://xkcd.com/307/

Wait, are you saying that this is an xkcd-themed game? BEST... GAME... EVARRRR!!!!1!!!11!!!!eleven!!!!!11!!!1!!

[JaneYoung]

This is on its way to becoming a train wreck.

It has been a great ride though. I've enjoyed this game hint and many of the posts. It's easy to ignore or overlook the repetitious ones and fun to talk about the good ones that introduce new thoughts or perspectives.

My thinking behind the game hint tradition is that it was started as fun and continues to be fun for those who care to participate. For those who don't - who cares? If a jigsaw puzzle is set up in a room, does it require that every person who walks into the room attempt to add a piece to the puzzle or is it there for pleasure, enjoyment, and fun problem-solving for those who choose to participate?

If someone chooses to play games on a phone or the computer, does that mean everyone has to? Nope.

Jane

[Cyberphil]

This probably has nothing to do with anything, but has anyone seen Dave's new profile pic on FB? It is a rendering of one of the game animation robots but it is a little different than any of the ones from past years:


It does not have bumpers

And


It has what looks like a tiny tail on tha back


Now, this was just changed on the 22nd, so it is most definitely new. Whether it is for this years game or not beats me. I just watched all of the game animations, and if it is one of the already made ones, it is most likely 2007 because of the wheels, the lack of bumpers, and the tail thing (Flag holder). I am pretty sure this means nothing, but it was just something to do while I was in my state of boredom.

[293spike]

COuld you post the picture or a link to the picture on Dave's Facebook?

[alectronic]

Attached is the image. I do not think it really anything to worry about, this robot has been in past videos. Also, we know bumpers are required, Bill said so, and we all know the video's are usually not game-rule accurate anyways. But, still an interesting find.
Edit: Wasn't he the one that got flipped in the 2010 video? :) He was also on the blue alliance in the 2009 Lunacy animation, but with bumpers.

[Cyberphil]

Attached is the image. I do not think it really anything to worry about, this robot has been in past videos. Also, we know bumpers are required, Bill said so, and we all know the video's are usually not game-rule accurate anyways. But, still an interesting find.
Edit: Wasn't he the one that got flipped in the 2010 video? :) He was also on the blue alliance in the 2009 Lunacy animation, but with bumpers.

He was in every one I found, just different versions. 2007 was definitely the closest though because of the bumper-less bot. This is the one in the 2010 animation that got flipped, but the 2010 one did not have the, "Tail." If you look at the 2007 Game Animation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khTGSKvDyS4), you can tell that it is the exact one. The tail is the Flag holder to determine the alliances.

[Robert Cawthon]

I still think the name of the game will be 'Back on Track' because its the B side of Loco-Motion 45 rpm and the picture was mirrored.

[Elgin Clock]

It's another Australia reference and in the North Territory.
It's about time you joined in, Elgin! You've shed a different light on the use of tracks/tracking.

Hey, no problem Jane. I've been on a vacation from CD since about April, so I figured it was due time to get back in the game. ::safety::
Kinda surprised that wasn't mentioned before. I found that reference after only 10 minutes of online searching.

[Fletch1373]

A keyword search indicates this has not been mentioned before in this entire thread. I doubt that is true, but hey.. searches never lie right? :rolleyes:
Anyways...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Little_Eva%22_B-24_Liberator

Very interesting little bit of history there with a blatantly obvious name connection.

Definitely and excellent find Elgin

[dag0620]

Attached is the image. I do not think it really anything to worry about, this robot has been in past videos. Also, we know bumpers are required, Bill said so, and we all know the video's are usually not game-rule accurate anyways. But, still an interesting find.
Edit: Wasn't he the one that got flipped in the 2010 video? :) He was also on the blue alliance in the 2009 Lunacy animation, but with bumpers.

That robot has been in the animations as far back as I've seen the game animations(2003). It's always is the off-beat cookie robot who has various things happening (the flip in 2010, it's human player constantly stopping it in 2003.)

I really think that it needs a name? Any suggestions

Ahh well thats for another thread, but then again whats there left to discuss about this hint??

[BIGWILLI2081]

The tail is the Flag holder to determine the alliances.

So, we might have to have a flag holder on our robot this year instead of colored bumpers like last year?

[Bjenks548]

So I know most people have decided that the hint from this picture is a train. I'm just going to throw another idea out there. Her name is Little EVA, when I first heard Eva and robots, WALL-E came to mind. First has been trying to go green, I wonder if it will be a green or recycling type thanks to WALL-E.

[rajikurbaj357]

It looks like an old picture, maybe around the 80's.. symbolizing an old game, dont forget this year is FIRST's 20th year

[gvarndell]

It looks like an old picture, maybe around the 80's..

That's funny.
Yes, it is an old photo but, even in 1983, Eva would have been 40 years old.
:rolleyes:

[Cyberphil]

So, we might have to have a flag holder on our robot this year instead of colored bumpers like last year?

I highly doubt it. That idea was put to rest after a few years of losing the flags on the field and them getting caught in other robots. Plus, another problem with the flags was that they had a minimum height mount requirement, which I believe was about 2 feet for visibility purposes. This meant that if you designed a low, sleek robot, you needed to have some kind of pole or something to hold the flag.

[JaneYoung]

It's another Australia reference and in the North Territory.


I've been thinking about Ayers Rock. I've also been thinking about the Northern Territory. Today, I decided to do some reading about it and learned that the Stuart Highway is also called "The Track". There was also some interesting information on standard gauge railways and narrow gauge railways and the speed limits on public roads.

If nothing else, I would love to go visit. 40,000 years is a long time ago and the history of the area is very interesting. And, I've always wanted to see Ayers Rock.

[Dripto]

I haven't caught up completely to this thread, but one idea I had was that there may be a bunch of "train car" type things filled with tennis balls. Teams would need to manipulate the train cars in some way and get the balls into a scoring zone, either by lining them up or getting the balls out.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML8ryBkEsfc/SzpToS0kF9I/AAAAAAAAAHM/RPuMX-eHyrU/s400/coaltrain.jpg

Example of what I mean as a car.

[CrazyCarl461]

I really think that it needs a name? Any suggestions?
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=899581&postcount=26

[Grim Tuesday]

Just a note about the profile pic robot.

That robot has been in every game video to date. In each one, it illustrates the safety principles of the game, ie, in 2010 it falls over the bump, in 2009 it crashes into a wall.

One thing it tells us is that that robot will be able to play this game: NO ROBOTS ON TRAIN TRACKS!


EDIT: Just realized, this has already been mentioned. Durp.

[Bjenks548]

Just a note about the profile pic robot.

That robot has been in every game video to date. In each one, it illustrates the safety principles of the game, ie, in 2010 it falls over the bump, in 2009 it crashes into a wall.

This robot also tells us how the kit of parts bot can play the game. 2010 it pushes balls into the goal. 2009 it recycles balls to the human players. However there is a slight difference in the dozer on Dave's profile picture. The tail like thing, combine this with the idea of a train, I think its a hitch. I could be wrong but my guess would be there is the spot where a robot has the attach to something, probably a train cart type thing.

[GGCO]

I haven't caught up completely to this thread, but one idea I had was that there may be a bunch of "train car" type things filled with tennis balls. Teams would need to manipulate the train cars in some way and get the balls into a scoring zone, either by lining them up or getting the balls out.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML8ryBkEsfc/SzpToS0kF9I/AAAAAAAAAHM/RPuMX-eHyrU/s400/coaltrain.jpg

Example of what I mean as a car.

I thought perhaps in the end game, these cars would need to be pulled or pushed by robots up a hill or something like that.

[jphilipp3]

i think that you guys are lookin at this too complex...look at how shes grabbin the column almost as if she were goin to lift it....and if you would like to defer to the era that the pic was taken in...the hairstyle, clothes, and characteristics point to 50's to early 60's more 50's than anything though...note the most likely red (or some variable of the color red) sweater and the hairstyle common to that era... the make up also suggests this being that she is wearing very little but just enough to keep her appearance up to social standards...

[CrazyCarl461]

i think that you guys are lookin at this too complex...look at how shes grabbin the column almost as if she were goin to lift it....and if you would like to defer to the era that the pic was taken in...the hairstyle, clothes, and characteristics point to 50's to early 60's more 50's than anything though...note the most likely red (or some variable of the color red) sweater and the hairstyle common to that era... the make up also suggests this being that she is wearing very little but just enough to keep her appearance up to social standards...Yikes! So you think we're the ones reading too much into it? Reminds me of a few years ago when people were trying to read the backward text from the other side of the scanned moonfish page for clues. The GDC may be wily and clever, but they don't get that obscure with their clues.

[IndySam]

After an exhaustive Google search, an interesting find...




http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/scott4020/haveabanana.jpg






.

[davidthefat]

Did anyone bring up the watch on her wrist or the number of buttons on her sweater? Maybe even the angle of her head from the pillar. Or that ring on her other hand.

[Alan Anderson]

Did anyone bring up the watch on her wrist or the number of buttons on her sweater? Maybe even the angle of her head from the pillar. Or that ring on her other hand.

Here's information about what people have said about the buttons (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=little+eva+buttons+site:www.chiefdelphi.com), to get you started.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

nice work there alan. ::rtm::

[bearbot]

yea we figure the hint is something with trains prolly carts we hav to fill then trasport them also sounds like u either have to pull a flag down or hang like the recent events that i know about i say back to 2004

[ghallsimpsons]

I'm not sure if this has already been stated, but it should be noted that in the spirit of locomotion and historical allusion in previous competitions, 2011 marks the 10th anniversary of Dean Kamens invention of the Sagway. Gyroscope? Narrow center of mass?

[Team#2057-Vegas]

center of mass? lets cut to the chase then and hope we have to put our robot in a motorcycle dome of death like on the simpsons movie :) :rolleyes:

[1086VEX]

after thinking about this a little more i really dont think the game will involve trains. as some people pointed out earlier, robotic locomotion has nothing to do with trains. other than that im sticking with the idea that the game will be a rendition of an earlier game, specifically 1992. seeing that maize craze involved both tennis balls and pillars, along with it being the 1st FRC game i think it be a good game to remake.

[Tetraman]

The boxcars are on a track (two outside color bars) and are actually sunk into the field. The center bar is just a large strip of colored tape or material to further identify the side the boxcars belong to. Yes, I gave the boxcars bumpers.

The boxcars would have a slick surface under them, like the regolith from Lunacy, so the boxcars will slide easily back and fourth when pushed by a robot.

Red alliance will take the closer right station in this image, as the smaller car is closest to them. Perhaps where the cars are positioned at the end of the game will determine bonus points.

I also just thought of a flat box car, where a single robot would climb on top of to score end-game points.

Once more hints come up I'll add/subtract to this, my theory.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/LocomotionPossibility.png

Link to the image of the track: http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Track.png

[Bill_B]

Angling for a spot on the GDC, Evan? Just think, those cars could have aquarium tanks on them (water game anyone?) Or why limit to two tracks? Eight side-by-side sliding platforms on tracks with robots on top of them would provide some truly loco motions. OR perhaps the track would be an oval with alternating red and blue cars that need to be filled by robots which scoop tennis balls off the floor. The positions of the cars on the track would be subjected to alliance strategies and cooperation to aid or thwart those filling attempts.

Good thinking Evan. thanks for getting us back on track.;)

[Tetraman]

Angling for a spot on the GDC, Evan?

Actually, yes. haha. :D It's my FIRST dream.

But as for the game idea, I figure it has something to do with tracks. Even if it isn't boxcars, I feel that there is something that will play out as a track, even if it is vertical like a pole.

[davidthefat]

I think this game will incorporate watch towers of some sort, possibly a ring of watch towers.

[markantonio37]

Well, her name is Eva, so I'm thinking it has to do with EVA foam? The same foam that's used in padding for different sports.

[BJC]

It would be farily easy to not use tracks while still getting the "track" feel by making the "train cars" mounted on something like the KoP chassis. It would use only four sticky wheels in a long orentation (or plaction if AM wanted too donate.) This set-up would result in the "train cars" being very difficult to turn so they would basically function as if they were on a track.

If they were actually used in the game they would also proabably have bumpers (for protection of the game pieces and alliance marking) and say 50-100 pounds of weights a couple inches from the ground to make them extreamly difficult to tip over or to move anything but forward and backward. (as if on a track)

I'll laugh if this is the case; it would be pretty cool.

[2403baby]

compared to the original album cover that the picture comes from she is reversed so possibly a reverse in autonomous order? another thing is that she is standing by a collumb so could play effect. lastly dont get stuck on locomotion she had plenty of other songs and locomotion is too obvious

[Steve Compton]

One of my students sent me this link....thinks it would be a good challenge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBMUvAUPTGM

[GCentola]

After an exhaustive Google search, an interesting find...




http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/scott4020/haveabanana.jpg






.

You guys are missing something important. The Banana. Bananas are plants, and they need water to grow. WATER GAME!
Or the column....hmmmm looks kinda Greek, and the greeks had bath houses and stuff right? Water Game!

[Tetraman]

HA! A front train car with a smokestack. Maybe put a giant ball on the top for a bonus multiplyer and the car is flat, so you can have a robot try and stand on it at the end of the game.

...I'm just having some fun with this haha.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/TrainCars.png

[rcmolloy]

You know Tetraman, I'm kind of considering the actual real possibility that this could be the game. Like I am really looking at it and I could see the GDC making this as the game.

[gvarndell]

After an exhaustive Google search, an interesting find...

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/scott4020/haveabanana.jpg
.

Am I the only person thinking this is offensive?
Really? A banana?
And we're all ok with this?
:confused:

[rcmolloy]

I do think its pretty offensive but was it intended that way...I don't know for sure. If anything it's just a joke to Eva and trying not to be insulting in any way possible. So I hope...:(

[Jared Russell]

Am I the only person thinking this is offensive?
Really? A banana?
And we're all ok with this?
:confused:

A few years ago, Dave Lavery was seen with a banana in his shirt pocket - an obvious game hint, and a recurring meme ever since.

I am 100% sure that is what IndySam was getting at.

[Tetraman]

You know Tetraman, I'm kind of considering the actual real possibility that this could be the game. Like I am really looking at it and I could see the GDC making this as the game.

I could see the game, but I'm missing a lot of the aesthetics that many of the previous games have had. That's why I have that center color bat between the tracks - it has the aesthetic of previous games.

I'm missing the main game element, if it's a ball or something.

I have thought about trailers, like how many trains carry trailers that go on tractor trailer trucks. Maybe if we had to stack PVC 'crates' on the boxcars, but I'm having trouble figuring how to fit the boxcars and multiple other objects I'm adding to the field into the wooden crates that are used for storage of the torn down FIRST field as it travels to regionals. Which is the big thing when thinking about making FIRST games - how much space these field elements take up when torn down for travel.

[rcmolloy]

It seems you have most of the aesthetics down. The real game piece could vary in so many ways that it seems easier to leave that to others to decide. I think that there would be enough space to have both of those "trains" travel as well. FIRST could also add another crate to the mix but I am not sure how much more money that would cost them to pay for the shipping between regionals. It's a really good concept overall and if this were to be the game for 2011 I say bring it on!

[IndySam]

Really? A banana?
And we're all ok with this?
:confused:[/QUOTE]

What is offensive about a woman holding a banana?



A few years ago, Dave Lavery was seen with a banana in his shirt pocket - an obvious game hint, and a recurring meme ever since.

I am 100% sure that is what IndySam was getting at.

Bingo, it's a long standing traditional joke.

[gvarndell]

What is offensive about a woman holding a banana?

Nothing, of course.

Bingo, it's a long standing traditional joke.

And now, for those of us who weren't aware of the joke, there is no reason to take offense.

[bearbot]

HA! A front train car with a smokestack. Maybe put a giant ball on the top for a bonus multiplyer and the car is flat, so you can have a robot try and stand on it at the end of the game.

...I'm just having some fun with this haha.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/TrainCars.png

is this an autodesk file

[rsisk]

I'm missing the main game element, if it's a ball or something.


How about loading varying lengths of PVC pipe into box cars? pipe could be located in dispensers around the field to be picked up by the robot, or taken from opponents cars.

[Dripto]

PVC batons are the FTC game piece this year, I doubt that they would make similar games for FRC and FTC in the same year.

[Tetraman]

is this an autodesk file

Google SketchUp is the program I use.

How about loading varying lengths of PVC pipe into box cars? pipe could be located in dispensers around the field to be picked up by the robot, or taken from opponents cars.

Hmm, I like. Short Green pieces for 1 point maybe 3 inch PVC in 2' 6" lengths and longer yellow 3 inch PVC in 4' lengths, each with a PVC cap. Maybe short pieces are given to robots via the human player and the longer pieces are in smaller and more specific supply.

OR What if the game pieces are on the trains to start, and the object is to take them out of the trans and put them into specific locations? Like lets say there are five scoring zones. Each game the "required building materials" for each scoring zone changes (Zone 1 needs 3 short pieces, 2 long pieces and 2 yellow balls.) Each object scores points based on if the order has been filled or not. - For instance in the Zone 1 example, alliances could give as many short pieces to the Zone 1, but only the first three will score for points. Once the order is filled, the alliance that gave the most to the Zone gets a small bonus, ties don't offer a bonus. Maybe the balls and short pieces are the only elements that are allowed to get sent back to the field, making them something for a robot to want to control.

So in this way, you can control where you place your trains on the track, making it less of a drive to gather parts and getting to the right zone, and getting more points! It's a game about getting product to locations in the quickest way possible. That would be a fast paced game! The best defense might not be pinning a robot, but instead moving a boxcar!

LOVE THIS I'm working on it!

PVC batons are the FTC game piece this year, I doubt that they would make similar games for FRC and FTC in the same year.

I agree. They won't make similar games, but using similar elements is a possibility.

[Bill_B]

Game pieces for trains? I know you guys have seen trains, even if in between PSP/Xbox/Nintentdo hibernations.

Ever hear/see intermodal transport containers? Cattle? Cars? Doubtful it would be bulk items like coal or grain. Lumber? There are even people on some trains. Maybe the game pieces are Barbie and Ken?

[Tetraman]

Ever hear/see intermodal transport containers?....Lumber?...

:D

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/TrainCarContainers.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/LumberCar.png

[Dripto]

You're really good with SketchUp, I could never get a hang of it. :<

But yeah, I kinda hope it isn't a competition like this because I think the more...competitive(?) competitions are more fun to watch and to build for. What I mean is that the last couple of years the games have been more like soccer or basketball as opposed to lets say, golf, where you're essentially trying to put up a high (or low, in this case) score.

[rabridges]

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18713

Go crazy.

I really don't this game has anything to do with trains, I really think the game is more towards navigation. More Lunacy, maybe the surface of the playing field is a different material causing the robots to move crazy (this may have been mentioned before). Also, FIRST will most likely take elements from the first First game and other games.

As for the game play:
- Stacking game pieces might be a possibility, cubes, hoops, cylinders, etc.
- Possibility angled areas on the field.
- Short Movable goals, High movable goals or both.
- Large stationary goals on angled platforms

Loco-Motion and Back on track do sound like a Xcellent name for a game as mentioned early in the thread. Being this is the only hint we are going to get, trying to figure out up until kick off will not hurt.

[DonRotolo]

Instead of a large yellow ball, what IF it was a tennis ball that went into the smokestack?

Maybe add a train carload of tennis balls to go with the 'logs'.

But I feel there's something missing. Two trains like that would be difficult to maneuver past, and I'd like to see a structure by which robots receive playing pieces somehow.

[Tetraman]

Instead of a large yellow ball, what IF it was a tennis ball that went into the smokestack?

Maybe add a train carload of tennis balls to go with the 'logs'.

But I feel there's something missing. Two trains like that would be difficult to maneuver past, and I'd like to see a structure by which robots receive playing pieces somehow.

Taking this idea and rolling with it:

I bet that if there were three carts for each alliance, and there were 9 possible obtainable crates (with two of each alliance's cart starts with a crate) and you have robots try and get the crates on...THEN you could have soccer balls or something similar that can be put into the carts. The more crates on your cart, the more soccer balls you can hold, the more points you can gain.

Tonight I'll come up with some more ideas on receiving game pieces and opening the space for robots, yet after last year I don't think having massive game elements on the floor to be that much of an issue.

Maybe after this season of FIRST, I should make a "let's design a FIRST game" game thread, having everyone input and vote on ideas, get Dave Lavery to tell us how well we did. haha.

[Garret]

Google SketchUp is the program I use.

Yeah....... I love Google SketchUp :) .
Excellent drawings by the way.........
Just needed to say that........

[TomH]

One thing I think we need to consider in ideas for game possibilities is the use of cameras. In the last 2 years, FIRST has tried to implement camera use into each game, like the targets for the goals in Breakaway and the top of the cart things in Lunacy. That is probably one of the most essential things that need to be considered in ideas, as how cameras can be used with the game. Look at modern day robots that are used by militaries, police, etc., most of them have cameras, and I think that FIRST is trying to get them well implemented into the games. Just something I thought that might need to be considered.

-Tom H

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Eva? (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2o1luyMKkqY/TA11hIqH6RI/AAAAAAAAAPk/Lt6N4YfnBng/s1600/Evangelion+-+Units+00+-+02.jpg) :rolleyes:

I agree that Locomotion sounds like the hint, but I'd argue that it's more likely to be the name than a reveal about the actual gameplay.

[Dripto]

On the other hand, they also try to make it possible to play the game without any camera control whatsoever. I could see them somehow making the pieces hard to place in the train without a camera or something, but I'm not sure how vital that would be, the GDC will figure something out.

[Creator Mat]

Something i noticed as i was reading some of the older posts was that Dave Lavery's profile had a picture of a locomotive in it... has that always been there or is this important or is this him just messing with (my) our heads?

[Cyberphil]

Something i noticed as i was reading some of the older posts was that Dave Lavery's profile had a picture of a locomotive in it... has that always been there or is this important or is this him just messing with (my) our heads?

That has been there for a few days now. If you read the whole thread I believe someone brings it up. It is a CCR album cover or something like that. But nice try! :)

[EricH]

Something i noticed as i was reading some of the older posts was that Dave Lavery's profile had a picture of a locomotive in it... has that always been there or is this important or is this him just messing with (my) our heads?
Changed a couple days after the hint came out. Might be important, but I think I'll take the default fallback:

It's a train!But it can't be just a train, can it?Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.Does this tie in to last year's Morse Code?Dave's just messing with our heads.

[DarrinMunter]

Another big event this year - Kodak's Kodachrome film has come to an end after 75 years of the best color pictures ever taken.

Since this years clue is a picture.....

[thefro526]

One thing I think we need to consider in ideas for game possibilities is the use of cameras. In the last 2 years, FIRST has tried to implement camera use into each game, like the targets for the goals in Breakaway and the top of the cart things in Lunacy. That is probably one of the most essential things that need to be considered in ideas, as how cameras can be used with the game. Look at modern day robots that are used by militaries, police, etc., most of them have cameras, and I think that FIRST is trying to get them well implemented into the games. Just something I thought that might need to be considered.

-Tom H

Cameras have been in use since at least 2005, but the importance and use varied by the game.

2005 - Vision Tetra (Don't really know the purpose of the vision tetra, auto bonus?)
2006 - Above the High Goal, most often used for auto targeting.
2007 - Above every other Column on the Rack - Used for autonomous scoring.
2008 - No specific Camera Objective, though some teams did attempt to differentiate blue and red trackballs from one another.
2009 - Targets above Trailers, used for auto targeting
2010 - Targets above Goals, used for auto targeting

Looking at past camera use, odds are that there will either be some sort of uniquely colored target or lit structure for the cameras to find and assist in scoring - Probably above, around, or inside of a goal or other scoring structure.

Seems like more often than not, Camera assist is usually written off as being unnecessary due to the amount of programming resources invested or because the task can be done just as easily with Dead Reckoning or a more simple sensor setup.

[Mike o.]

Cameras have been in use since at least 2005, but the importance and use varied by the game.

2005 - Vision Tetra (Don't really know the purpose of the vision tetra, auto bonus?)
2006 - Above the High Goal, most often used for auto targeting.
2007 - Above every other Column on the Rack - Used for autonomous scoring.
2008 - No specific Camera Objective, though some teams did attempt to differentiate blue and red trackballs from one another.
2009 - Targets above Trailers, used for auto targeting
2010 - Targets above Goals, used for auto targeting
........

Some further notes about camera use. There was in fact no camera use in 2008. This was the year they had the IR receivers/transmitters and had the RoboCoach that could aid in controlling the robot during Hybrid (that year's autonomous) Period. Also, 2009 is when they introduced the new Camera (Axis 206 Camera) that allowed for a little more complexity than the old camera (CMUcam). During the 2010 game, the primary purpose of the camera was to track the large targets over the corner goals, but teams were also able to get visual feedback at the DS and possibly could use it to help them navigate (e.g., through the tunnels). I think that we will see that continuation of multipurpose use of the camera during the game, not just for use in autonomous for tracking something.

With everything that has been mentioned and discussed, I think that it will be interesting this year to see how the GDC has integrated the use of the camera into the game. I truly can't wait.

[Chernicki]

I think we are all reading into this a little too far... I really think the hint has more to do with the fact that the image was REVERSED

Anyone with me on this??:confused: :confused:

[Robert Cawthon]

Perhaps. I really don't think it has anything to do with a train. The name of the song Loco-Motion really means crazy motion. (like when I try to drive our bot!) I do think, however, that the 'B' side of Loco-Motion (Back on Track) may have something to do with it. It is the 'flip side' (mirror side) of the main record. But, as memory serves me, this picture isn't even from the cover of Loco-Motion, but rather from a 'Best of' album by Little Eva. I could be wrong, though.

[cricket66]

Her name is Little EVA.

[Tetraman]

Dave Lavery is probably laughing at me...but here goes:


ON TRACK

Game Field:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Field2.png

Other Views of the Game Field:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Field1.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Field3.png

View of the Game Field with Robots in place:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/FieldRobots.png

These are the Boxcars:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Elements1.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Elements4.png

A Look at the "Crates" and the "Ore":
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Elements2.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Elements3.png

The object of the game is to collect Ore and put them onto the Boxcars. Using Crates, the alliance will be able to fill the Boxcars with more Ore.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Scoring1.png

Game:
Each Alliance has one free Crate they are allowed to place on any of their three Boxcars at the beginning of the game.

Each alliance starts with the control of 8 Ore. They are allowed to give each of their alliance robots two of them. (During the rest of the game, Robots are allowed to control/handle any number of Ore. (Ore are made of 16" diameter balls.)

During Automous Mode, robots are allowed to attempt to score Ore on their boxcars.

For the first minute and a half of the game, robots are allowed to remove Crates from opposing alliance's Boxcars. In the last 30 seconds of the game, no Crates may be removed. All though the game, Human Players may toss the remaining Ore the alliance is given to enter the Ore into the Field.

Points:
Alliances gain 1 point for each Ore scored inside on ontop of a Boxcar. (If a Boxcar has no crates on it, any Ore that happens to balance on the boxcar will count.)

Any Ore scored during Automous mode are worth 2 points.

Alliances gain no points from the crates they stack on their boxcars.

At the end of the game, Alliances should attempt to combine together their Boxcars. If after the end of the game, the three Boxcars are touching each other (anywhere on the track) the Alliance gains 6 points. Thats the same as 6 scored Ore.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Scoring4.png

[IndySam]

Some further notes about camera use. There was in fact no camera use in 2008. This was the year they had the IR receivers/transmitters and had the RoboCoach that could aid in controlling the robot during Hybrid (that year's autonomous) Period.

Not exactly true, a few teams used the camera to show the robot where the random ball was instead of using the IR.

[Cactus_Robotics]

Tetraman I really like the concept of that game. I think it has alot of the elements FIRST looks for in game design. Quick question should the ore be able to leave the field via a shoot for human players after the fact or just for the beginning ore given?

[chemipanda]

Tetraman i wouldnt be surprised if you are mostly correct.

And you did this all in google sketchup?

[dodar]

@tetraman, like the concept but idk, i just dont see that being a WOW game. And it doesnt look to have a good auto or end game.

[Tetraman]

Tetraman i wouldnt be surprised if you are mostly correct.

And you did this all in google sketchup?

I had help. The main outside of the field was already created by someone else. I found Breakaway on the 3D warehouse, so I took the outside player stations and reformatted it. Everything else I made, but if I didn't have a player station to work with I would have made it myself.

Tetraman I really like the concept of that game. I think it has alot of the elements FIRST looks for in game design. Quick question should the ore be able to leave the field via a shoot for human players after the fact or just for the beginning ore given?

Not sure. Good thing to think about.

@tetraman, like the concept but idk, i just dont see that being a WOW game. And it doesnt look to have a good auto or end game.

True. The auto's power comes from the bonus of getting 2 points for 1 score, and the ending would be a terrible thing to miss, especially if an opponent's robot ends up in the middle or a ball of Ore is between the mine carts.

But I'm done designing this one. I'll work on a different angle of locomotion, hopefully if/when a second hint comes out. Another thing I was thinking of is that if the CD was her "Greatest hits" and she is hugging a pole, maybe the object of the game is to "hit" a "pole" or something like that.

[gvarndell]

the 'B' side of Loco-Motion (Back on Track) may have something to do with it. It is the 'flip side' (mirror side) of the main record.

As far as I can tell, 'Back on Track' was an album name, not a song name.
See here -- http://www.spectropop.com/remembers/LEobit.htm

It seems the B side of Eva's original single was entitled "He is the boy".
Citing this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Loco-Motion

I do find the fact that Grand Funk Railroad also covered Loco-motion interesting...

[C_Helm]

Little Eva -- LocoMotion. That's who it is.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000024VI6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amiright.com/parody/60s/littleeva6.shtml&usg=__oYUd_VyEY6IgrFZODBINhhoTHGw=&h=300&w=300&sz=19&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&tbnid=B8UVrizbTJ9zLM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlittle%2Beva%2Blocomotion%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D679%26bih%3D368%26tbs%3Di sch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=362&ei=OggdTaf9No66sQPT2M2_Ag&oei=MwgdTd3MLImesQP0nMGACg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=9&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:3&tx=79&ty=68

If the link up top doesnt work, then just go to Google and type in Little Eva Locomotion.

The picture looks very similar, just flipped or "mirrored" from the hint picture. Also, the Google picture has her name and record company on it.

The hint picture was probably edited.

Locomotion - game name for 2011? It is also a type of propulsion.

[gvarndell]

I think we are all reading into this a little too far... I really think the hint has more to do with the fact that the image was REVERSED

Anyone with me on this??:confused: :confused:

I don't think this conjecture is any more of a stretch than any others I've read. :)
But I'm not clicking with it myself.
Unless, maybe, has anybody tried playing Loco-Motion backwards?
Might be something there.

[IndySam]

Little Eva -- LocoMotion. That's who it is.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000024VI6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amiright.com/parody/60s/littleeva6.shtml&usg=__oYUd_VyEY6IgrFZODBINhhoTHGw=&h=300&w=300&sz=19&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&tbnid=B8UVrizbTJ9zLM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlittle%2Beva%2Blocomotion%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D679%26bih%3D368%26tbs%3Di sch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=362&ei=OggdTaf9No66sQPT2M2_Ag&oei=MwgdTd3MLImesQP0nMGACg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=9&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:3&tx=79&ty=68

If the link up top doesnt work, then just go to Google and type in Little Eva Locomotion.

The picture looks very similar, just flipped or "mirrored" from the hint picture. Also, the Google picture has her name and record company on it.

The hint picture was probably edited.

Locomotion - game name for 2011? It is also a type of propulsion.

Your kidding me right?






No.






Seriously.

[gvarndell]

Little Eva -- LocoMotion. That's who it is.

You only get one first post. ;)

[Tetraman]

Unless, maybe, has anybody tried playing Loco-Motion backwards?
Might be something there.

Lots of weird noises. That's all I hear.

[JaneYoung]

Your kidding me right?






No.






Seriously.

Now now, Indy - you know as well as I do that we can beat a game hint to death without reading the first 45 pages of the thread that have already beaten it to death a few times. I kid you not. Although, I do take the time to read the pages, thinking they might have involved people trying to set thoughts in motion regarding the game.

I'm not big on begging for the 2nd game hint but I'm about to get big on asking folks to at least read the first 3 pages of this thread and discover what we have.

Jane

[Tetraman]

I'm not big on begging for the 2nd game hint but I'm about to get big on asking folks to at least read the first 3 pages of this thread and discover what we have.

But your request will be lost in about 3 or 4 more pages of ideas. You'll have to keep posting it each page.

[BJC]

I had an idea for a really fun game, but I don't have time to draw it up in sketchup, this is just a very rough paint sketch. Perhaps someone else could. It combines.. well I'll let you see for yourself.

[JaneYoung]

But your request will be lost in about 3 or 4 more pages of ideas. You'll have to keep posting it each page.

nah - I'll make a post in another 45 pages and it will be a demand by then: RTWTP.

But thank you for encouraging me to post - Lord knows, I don't post enough in CD. :)

Good work on your game design ideas, Evan.

Jane

[TD912]

I've only read a few of the 40+ pages, but it seems like we keep sticking with the idea of traincars and "Locomotion".

What about the column? Perhaps we have to climb it? Or place something on top of it like a pedestal (http://artisticthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Pedestal1.jpg)?

Or the fact that Little Eva is hugging it? Does something wrap around it? Something like a game of horseshoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoes)?

Then again, we're probably all going to be amazed at how incorrect our guesses are when kickoff arrives...

[Karibou]

I think we are all reading into this a little too far... I really think the hint has more to do with the fact that the image was REVERSED

Anyone with me on this??:confused: :confused:

I see three possible reasons for the image being reversed:
1. The reversal has something to do with the game
2. The GDC wanted us to work a LITTLE (no pun intended) harder to figure out who is in the image.
3. All of the above.

Even if the game does have to do with the reversal, there still has to be some significance of the image. They could have pulled a random image off of google, reversed it, and said "here's your clue," but I doubt that the full picture of Little Eva (not the cropped one that appeared on the record (a what?) cover) would be the result of a random search. She has something to do with the game. They chose this specific image for a reason.



nah - I'll make a post in another 45 pages and it will be a demand by then: RTWTP.

Jane
Oooo, does the 'P' stand for 'please'? :D I like this.

[JaneYoung]

Oooo, does the 'P' stand for 'please'? :D I like this.

Why yes - thank you for noticing, if I may be so bold.:D

[hihi11111]

idk if this is a big thing, but everyone already knows that the picture is reversed... and so i looked up the backwords verson of EVA and its AVE which is a train in spain... maby this backs up the locomotion idea?

[Tetraman]

I had an idea for a really fun game, but I don't have time to draw it up in sketchup, this is just a very rough paint sketch. Perhaps someone else could. It combines.. well I'll let you see for yourself.

Ah. Took me a sec but I see what you've got. Give me a while and I'll be happy to sketchup your idea.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

idk if this is a big thing, but everyone already knows that the picture is reversed... and so i looked up the backwords verson of EVA and its AVE which is a train in spain... maby this backs up the locomotion idea?

its really weird.. whether true or not.. all of these thoughts with the words little eva point us all over the place with trains..

we're gonna find out for sure in ---> 9 DAYS <--- but maybe they're gonna stop messing with us about trains and really do it (:

[216Robochick288]

its really weird.. whether true or not.. all of these thoughts with the words little eva point us all over the place with trains..

Or we keep looking for connections with trains which is not what they were hinting at!!!:ahh:

I think that this may have nothing to do with trains, but because people kept looking into it, the more things happened to line up which is not what the GDC had in mind for the hint.

And Dlavery might just be being 'evil' and put the train picture up to tease us.. after all, think about who it it...::rtm::

[Karibou]

its really weird.. whether true or not.. all of these thoughts with the words little eva point us all over the place with trains..


I'm not sure how much this concept is still preached, but what I've learned from reading medieval war books is that you often only see what you want to see, and if there's something that you think that you should see, you will see it. If you're looking for the enemy soldier in the forest, you may miss the mountain lion that's about to attack you from behind. By just looking for connections to trains because that was our initial reaction, we may not see other clues because we are not looking for them.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

i agree with both of you.

just at the same time.. its even the little things that point to it.. (: we may be looking for train stuff.. but at the same time it really could be.. that darn GDC and darn dave aha

[unionylibertad]

it could be that slightly grayer pixel in the upper right hand corner that we didnt notice :P

[Jash_J]

Looking at past camera use, odds are that there will either be some sort of uniquely colored target or lit structure for the cameras to find and assist in scoring - Probably above, around, or inside of a goal or other scoring structure.

This got me thinking, just like last year, how they only showed one piece of the game which was a piece of the twoer where the ball woudl fall from, maybe they are doign the same this year? Only this year they are talking about the camera uses in the game this the picture being reversed and in black and white. Maybe it means there is a target with similar properties?

[h1n1is4pigs]

or maybe the clue has no relevance and we are just being screwed with

[Team#2057-Vegas]

it ALWAYS has some type of relevance.. even small things sometimes

[Grim Tuesday]

it ALWAYS has some type of relevance.. even small things sometimes

The relevance could be that there is no relevance: We know the game isnt going to be about 60s singers...

Right?

[h1n1is4pigs]

i dont even think we can be sure that it wont be about 60's singers all that we can really be sure about is there will be a game

[Coach B.A.D.]

The 2011 pix is Little Eva - famous song "Loco-motion" - does that hint a railroad activity or simply "Loco" or crazy motion?

[gvarndell]

The 2011 pix is Little Eva - famous song "Loco-motion" - does that hint a railroad activity or simply "Loco" or crazy motion?

:o

[PAR_WIG1350]

^ that should be added to the list of available smilies

[Robert Cawthon]

^ that should be added to the list of available smilies

I agree! Great emoticon!

[IndySam]

:o

Not a propper use of the phrase.

""flog (or beat) a dead horse. Though he supported the measure, British politician and orator John Bright thought the Reform Bill of 1867, which called for more democratic representation, would never be passed by Parliament. Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, he said in a speech, would be like trying to 'flog a dead horse' to make it pull a load. This is the first recorded use of the expression, which is still common for 'trying to revive interest in an apparently hopeless issue.' Bright's silver tongue is also responsible for 'England is the mother of Parliament,' and 'Force is not a remedy,' among other memorable quotations. He was wrong about the Reform Bill of 1867, however. Parliament 'carried' it, as the British say." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997."

[Team#2057-Vegas]

^ that should be added to the list of available smilies


agreed.. that just made my day.. thank you

[Tetraman]

I had an idea for a really fun game, but I don't have time to draw it up in sketchup, this is just a very rough paint sketch. Perhaps someone else could. It combines.. well I'll let you see for yourself.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Custom1.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Custom2.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Custom3.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Custom4.png

I'm not sure how much this concept is still preached, but what I've learned from reading medieval war books is that you often only see what you want to see, and if there's something that you think that you should see, you will see it. If you're looking for the enemy soldier in the forest, you may miss the mountain lion that's about to attack you from behind. By just looking for connections to trains because that was our initial reaction, we may not see other clues because we are not looking for them.

Or maybe that's what they want us to think! The hint is exactly what we are saying, it's just that even if we figure out what the hint really is, it isn't the right encryption code for the PDF or the elaborate design of the FIRST game. Hints are fairly useless even if we do figure it out.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

good design tetraman ::ouch::

and i forget who came up with the idea but kudos to them as well. Would definitely be an interesting and exciting game! ::rtm::

[Tetraman]

NEW IDEA! hahaha

This came from the concept of holding the column.

Rules: Robots are allowed to touch the colored zones and yellow "danger zone" of the field. If a robot touches the gray "Dead Zone" then the robot's signal is cut off for 10 seconds. (similar to how robots would be disconnected in Triple Play once the human player stepped off the pad.)

Not sure about what the robots would do yet. It's just the start of the idea.

Putting pics in links to help keep the clutter off the posts.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/JungleGym1.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/JungleGym2.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/JungleGym3.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/JungleGym4.png

[Karibou]

Not a propper use of the phrase.

""flog (or beat) a dead horse. Though he supported the measure, British politician and orator John Bright thought the Reform Bill of 1867, which called for more democratic representation, would never be passed by Parliament. Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, he said in a speech, would be like trying to 'flog a dead horse' to make it pull a load. This is the first recorded use of the expression, which is still common for 'trying to revive interest in an apparently hopeless issue.' Bright's silver tongue is also responsible for 'England is the mother of Parliament,' and 'Force is not a remedy,' among other memorable quotations. He was wrong about the Reform Bill of 1867, however. Parliament 'carried' it, as the British say." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997."

Does it matter? I just spent multiple minutes laughing at it; I think it's good enough :p

[RoBoCrAzY155]

The photo is of Little Eva Narcis, she released two albums in 1962 and 1989, they were "The Loco-Motion" and "Back on Tracks".

I assume some kind of train or railroad connection from this. :confused:



Also the photo is the reverse of the cover to her 2001 "Llll-Little Eva!: The Complete Dimension Recordings".

Reversed image could just be a way to make identifying the picture harder, or it could mean a reversing of something in the game.



Personally I think it is just the first one (the design board trying to make identifying the picture harder), but wouldn't put it past FIRST to try something like that in their design. :mad:

[IndySam]

The photo is of Little Eva Narcis, she released two albums in 1962 and 1989, they were "The Loco-Motion" and "Back on Tracks".

I assume some kind of train or railroad connection from this. :confused:



Also the photo is the reverse of the cover to her 2001 "Llll-Little Eva!: The Complete Dimension Recordings".

Reversed image could just be a way to make identifying the picture harder, or it could mean a reversing of something in the game.



Personally I think it is just the first one (the design board trying to make identifying the picture harder), but wouldn't put it past FIRST to try something like that in their design. :mad:

Wow thanks, who would of figured!

[BJC]

Wow thanks, who would of figured!

We REALLY need that dead horse icon.

[Bjenks548]

The photo is of Little Eva Narcis, she released two albums in 1962 and 1989, they were "The Loco-Motion" and "Back on Tracks".

I assume some kind of train or railroad connection from this. :confused:



Also the photo is the reverse of the cover to her 2001 "Llll-Little Eva!: The Complete Dimension Recordings".

Reversed image could just be a way to make identifying the picture harder, or it could mean a reversing of something in the game.



Personally I think it is just the first one (the design board trying to make identifying the picture harder), but wouldn't put it past FIRST to try something like that in their design. :mad:

Before anyone posts on this thread please at least read the first couple pages. There's a lot of information and discussion that has already taken place.

[CrazyCarl461]

The photo is of Little Eva Narcis, she released two albums in 1962 and 1989, they were "The Loco-Motion" and "Back on Tracks".Hmmmmmmmm...

[DonRotolo]

Maybe we should include the horse in every even-numbered post?

Little Eva? Locomotion? How come we haven't heard of that before now? :rolleyes:

[skebhners2]

So here is what we've got after a full day of brainstorming.

To start, the obvious.
In 1962 Loco-Motion was released. So the game involves track, or trains. The concept of E.V.A. may or may not be a factor. Also, something in the game is going to be mirrored, because the image FIRST used is flipped.

Now for our takes on this.
Maybe there is a multi-level playing field. Which includes stationary robots with moving arms, and a moving goal on the upper level track. Robots must place game piece in the moving goal on the track.

Or, maybe connecting to your alliance for part of the game. Your alliance picks up pieces together.

Or, maybe to go with the mirror theory, reversing goals randomly throughout the game, using alternating red and blue LED lights. (Note: LED lights were invented in 1962...)This would result in a game of high scoring.

Or, also with the mirror theory, maybe the drivers are divided from the playing field by one way mirrors, so they can see the field, but cannot be seen. Also, the human players would somehow correspond.

Or, to explain the column, and Greek background of Eva's middle name, maybe there is a multi-level playing field in which the robots can hook on to a monorail type system held up by columns.

And lastly, think about where a lot of our game equipment comes from. Walmart. Yes, Walmart taking over FIRST. See, Walmart first opened in 1962 as well. Maybe the game has to do with a 3 part alliance as usual. One robot picks up game pieces, placing them on the next robot to travel on a track, to the third robot that places them on a shelf.

[ttldomination]

So here is what we've got after a full day of brainstorming.

Wait, your team spent a full day brainstorming the game hint?

[skebhners2]

Wait, your team spent a full day brainstorming the game hint?
Well, my "team" meaning me and another team member.

[EricH]

Wait, your team spent a full day brainstorming the game hint?
Only one full day of brainstorming on the hint? Boy are they behind... This thread's been busy for a week!

[skebhners2]

Only one full day of brainstorming on the hint? Boy are they behind... This thread's been busy for a week!
Other members of the team have known of the hint, and haven't really looked into it much.
We just figured, is there a better way to ring in the New Year than having a random brainstorm?

[skebhners2]

Happy New Year XD
7 Days Till Kickoff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Robert Cawthon]

Hints are fairly useless even if we do figure it out.

Maybe, but its still fun to think about it and try to figure it out.

[skebhners2]

Exactly, Which is why we do it.
Maybe there will be a hint #2...

[robox89]

I got to say, I look forward to having game hints and kickoff as much as I do Christmas

[skebhners2]

I got to say, I look forward to having game hints and kickoff as much as I do Christmas
Cant wait to whip out "Twas the night before Kickoff"...

i seriously need sleep...lmao

[Team#2057-Vegas]

lol i love kickoff and hints <3

oh.. and the night before kickoff.. please do :p

btw love the signature.

[robox89]

Cant wait to whip out "Twas the night before Kickoff"...

i seriously need sleep...lmao

Theres no time for sleep. We've got games to think of and robots to design soon lol. 3am build nights are always the best.

[Cyberphil]

Theres no time for sleep. We've got games to think of and robots to design soon lol. 3am build nights are always the best.

Most definitely. :cool:

[Matt Goelz]

... just to throw something else out there: what if it is as simple as saying that we will be returning to robots with arms and extending outside the frame perimeter? She is extending her arms in the picture and the reversing of the image could mean reversing what has been done recently. AKA: going back to how it was before 2009: robot extensions and not having a 'no leaving the frame perimeter' rule. (I count last year as a 'no leaving the frame' year, even though technically you could for a 3 second time period or less and in the last 20 seconds) I always liked games with robots manipulating a game piece with an arm or the sort.. [ specifically, 2005 and 2007 were my favorites :) ]

Happy new year to all teams and good luck this season!
-Matt G

[Cyberphil]

... just to throw something else out there: what if it is as simple as saying that we will be returning to robots with arms and extending outside the frame perimeter? She is extending her arms in the picture and the reversing of the image could mean reversing what has been done recently. AKA: going back to how it was before 2009: robot extensions and not having a 'no leaving the frame perimeter' rule. (I count last year as a 'no leaving the frame' year, even though technically you could for a 3 second time period or less and in the last 20 seconds) I always liked games with robots manipulating a game piece with an arm or the sort.. [ specifically, 2005 and 2007 were my favorites :) ]

Happy new year to all teams and good luck this season!
-Matt G

This very well could be. I really think we will be allowed to extend out of the frame perimeter, but I would not call it undoing what was done. The GDC created those rules to make the games more challenging (and various other reasons), not to change the course of all future games.

I really hope that we will be able to extend out of the frame perimeter. I am tired of robots looking more or less the same. I loved it when I walked through the pits and did not see one robot that resembled another. That is what FIRST is about. Coming up with your own unique designs! :)

[CrazyCarl461]

what if it is as simple as saying that we will be returning to robots with arms and extending outside the frame perimeter?Though this is usually not how the picture hints have played out in the past, I think it seems to make as much sense as anything else. In the past, it has almost always been the large pick-and-place arms that made for the most unique and memorable robots.

2011: Return of the super arms!

[dodar]

Though this is usually not how the picture hints have played out in the past, I think it seems to make as much sense as anything else. In the past, it has almost always been the large pick-and-place arms that made for the most unique and memorable robots.

2011: Return of the super arms!

2007 & 2008. Ahhhhhhhh, the good 'ol days :D

[Cyberphil]

2007 & 2008. Ahhhhhhhh, the good 'ol days :D

Most definitely!

[dodar]

2007 was the last entirely complete game. Fun to play, fun to build for, fun to watch, fun to just walk through the pits and look and look and look at all the robots. Autonomous was fun to watch, tele-op was an intense version of checkers, and the finale, IMHO, has been the best to watch and be a part of as a team/drive member. And for the non-team-member, watching that game was very easy to comprehend. That game was truly red vs blue, 3 vs 3 no 6/5/4 vs 0. Thats what sets 2007 a part from 2010.

[PAR_WIG1350]

but will the robots that drastically change orientation at the start of matches (such as 71 in 2002 of swampthing in 2003) ever return? I want to see more of them.

[EricH]

Under the bumper rules... It's difficult. 16 pulled it off in 2008 somehow, but the bumper rules were different--I think it was something like X% of the frame covered, or something like that.

[Jash_J]

I think the only part we should get from this clue is that there will be some type of reverse play in the game? -- due to the picture being reversed. Yes, they could have chosen any picture being reversed then....however i think they picked this one to play with our minds a bit because of her songs/albums and how their names refer to many options to this years game.
They did this just to play with our minds/build hype..

[Sarah2729]

I've been trying to think of what the picture could mean, and I'm probably reading wayyyy too much into it, but here are some ideas/thoughts I had:

-Dimensions- The fact that the picture was an album cover from Dimension Records could mean something
-Like someone said earlier, the fact that it's an album cover could signify a disk and the column could represent a goalpoast, so maybe some sort of frisbee thing?
- Based on lyrics from The Loco-Motion, maybe part of it is forming a train or chain with alliance members
-Someone else on here said something really clever: the fact that the image was reversed and Little Eva is famous for the Loco-Motion could signify doing something backwards, such as pulling objects.
-Not sure if anyone said this, but the nickname "Little Eva" comes from a character in the book Uncle Tom's Cabin...that could be significant.

I'm really anxious to see what the game is going to be!

[Mikekizer]

She looks like a mo-town singer, this could be an album cover. Finding her and the song could be part of the clue.

Or it could be a pole to climb or simply an obstacle in the game...

[rutzman]

She looks like a mo-town singer, this could be an album cover. Finding her and the song could be part of the clue.

Or it could be a pole to climb or simply an obstacle in the game...

Please read the first 3-5 pages of the thread...

[Dripto]

-Dimensions- The fact that the picture was an album cover from Dimension Records could mean something


That seems like an interesting way to look at it.

[demosthenes2k8]

Well, my team found that the singer's Little Eva, who has the hit "Loco-Motion". Could that mean anything?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285110/beatdeadhorse5.gif

Just kidding, don't worry.

If the reversed image and title "Loco-Motion" were to mean anything, wouldn't it mean PUSHING, not pulling, because trains pull, and you're reversing it?

[GGCO]

I've been trying to think of what the picture could mean, and I'm probably reading wayyyy too much into it, but here are some ideas/thoughts I had:

-Dimensions- The fact that the picture was an album cover from Dimension Records could mean something
-Like someone said earlier, the fact that it's an album cover could signify a disk and the column could represent a goalpoast, so maybe some sort of frisbee thing?
- Based on lyrics from The Loco-Motion, maybe part of it is forming a train or chain with alliance members
-Someone else on here said something really clever: the fact that the image was reversed and Little Eva is famous for the Loco-Motion could signify doing something backwards, such as pulling objects.
-Not sure if anyone said this, but the nickname "Little Eva" comes from a character in the book Uncle Tom's Cabin...that could be significant.

I'm really anxious to see what the game is going to be!

First, you need to go here (http://www.comicsanscriminal.com/).
Second, I think you're reading too much into the clue.

[SEV33RoboMan]

Now i've never been big on strange things happening for certain reasons but this seems just a little suspicious.

The harmelen train disaster:

"It was shortly before twenty past nine in the morning of Monday January 8, 1962 when a train bound for Amsterdam was snaking through the junction. Consisting of two electric multiple units it was moving at about 45 mph. The manouvre was protected from oncoming train by a red signal on the approach to the junction from the Utrecht direction.

A Utrecht to Rotterdam express train, headed by an electric locomotive, No. 1137 and travelling at about 60 mph was approaching the junction. Perhaps because of the foggy conditions, the driver missed a yellow light warning that the next signal was at red. It must have been at the last moment that he saw the danger signal. The driver applied the brakes but there was nothing more that he could do. Collision was inevitable."

Now i find it strange that the LED was also invented in 1962 and the little eva narcis song loco-motion came out in 1962

My thought we have a course that does indeed involve trains and i beleive mirrors will be a big part while using LED's. Maybe there is a part of the field that is hidden and we must use lights and mirrors to get there?

[Tetraman]

New Idea

Highest ring is 10' up, the second ring is 7' up. The circle step is just a simple 2".

Just brainstorming on the idea of the column. So I thought something Colosseum-like.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Columns.png

[Team#2057-Vegas]

New Idea

Highest ring is 10' up, the second ring is 7' up. The circle step is just a simple 2".

Just brainstorming on the idea of the column. So I thought something Colosseum-like.

its a interesting idea.. but what would the game be with a design like this? im curious ::rtm::

[Tetraman]

its a interesting idea.. but what would the game be with a design like this? im curious ::rtm::

Not sure. I have been brainstorming, just that. Maybe you have to hang PVC hooks, like candy canes, on the bars...or something. Not really sure yet.

[demosthenes2k8]

No, clearly they have to get balls from the center into the opponent's color zone. But they can't touch the middle circle. HAVE FUN.

[DonRotolo]

Let's be rational for a moment here:

Thinking back to Overdrive and the game hints: Remember the GPS coordinates? A bronze statue of a tortoise and a hare, in Boston's Copley Square. "It is a race"

Or Lunacy and the "Moon Fish"

Now we have a picture of Little Eva. Her *very* famous song is Locomotion.

My point is that the clues in the past have been very upfront, basic and plain. Overt is the word, I think. So reading all these conspiracies and double (or triple) meanings into it (Covert) - I don't think so.

"Locomotion". That's the whole clue. Nuthin' else in there, sorry. Probably the game's name. We'll see who's right in 6 days.

Craziness may resume now.:p

[cmac3]

It's Little Eva, A singer in the 1960's. Her most famous song was "Loco-Motion". Something tells me we're gonna have to build with high torque this year with a low center of gravity. Maybe this game has something to do with trains?

[Tetraman]

It's Little Eva, A singer in the 1960's. Her most famous song was "Loco-Motion". Something tells me we're gonna have to build with high torque this year with a low center of gravity. Maybe this game has something to do with trains?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285110/beatdeadhorse5.gif

[JaneYoung]

This is the hint that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people start guessing not knowing what it was, and they'll continue to guess forever just because...This is the hint that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend.

Jane