2011 Game Hint #1

[rtfgnow]

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18713

Go crazy.

[synth3tk]

*darn* you're fast!

[Chris is me]

Okay, first question:

Who is that? When was this picture taken? Where is it used?

[rtfgnow]

First thing that comes to my mind is having to climb that pole. Can someone indentify what kind of pole it is? I think the greeks had three kinds.

[pandamonium]

forgive my ignorance, so who is it?

WOOOO first 5 posts

I believe that the poles are classified by the decorations at the tops and bottoms, not as much by the bottoms

[Chris is me]

A search on TinEye (reverse image search) did not turn up a single result for the picture. It doesn't mean too much other than that the photo isn't likely a picture of a notable person, or widely distributed.

[FIRSTtm134]

I am drawing a blank on this, I have no idea who she is. I will google african american girls, in what looks to be from her clothes, between the 20's and 50's some time...

First thing that comes to my mind is having to climb that pole. Can someone indentify what kind of pole it is? I think the greeks had three kinds.

There is no way to tell what type it is. Doric, Ionic and Corinthian are the 3 types but you need to see the top or bottom to decypher.

[smurfgirl]

I think I'm more excited that the game hint is out than I care what it means. I'm thinking the material of the pole could be important, and it would be helpful to know if the person in the picture can be identified, because she might be part of the clue too.

[elemental]

From this site (http://www.realtor.org/rmoprint.nsf/pages/arch35) the poll looks like it is a Doric column.
The Doric column is the oldest and simplest Greek style--its found on the Parthenon in Athens.

Edit: I want to say it is a Doric because of the lines in the column.

[Jared Russell]

Classically, Doric columns have 20 flutes - Ionic and Corinthian 24. Since I can count ~15 flutes on that column (and I can see at most half of the column), it doesn't belong to any of the classical orders.

[siriustuck13]

I think it's aretha franklin.
http://www.famouswhy.com/pictures/people/aretha_franklin.jpg

[galbm]

if you'll check the properties of the image, you can see that the name of the picture file is "2011_Assets". could that mean anything?

[FIRSTtm134]

All greek columns have lines like that. I was looking through pictures with columns. Something stuck out. Dance studios have columns and a few had columns silimar to the one in the hint

[pandamonium]

Could be a yearbook photo and I am thinking it may have been from early 90's some schools still use black and white for yearbook photos. Bill earlier recognized a few teams from being around since the very first year can anyone from those teams see if they ever had this lady on their team?

I think the game is a combo from years past so i am kind of trying to make this clue fit that idea which is probably not good...

[Robert Cawthon]

From this site (http://www.realtor.org/rmoprint.nsf/pages/arch35) the poll looks like it is a Doric column.


Edit: I want to say it is a Doric because of the lines in the column.

Could be ionic or Aeolic. I say this because it appears to be a slender column and a lot of the column differences are in the base and cornice.

[Jack Jones]

forgive my ignorance, so who is it?

WOOOO first 5 posts

I believe that the poles are classified by the decorations at the tops and bottoms, not as much by the bottoms

Not sure - but think it could be Florence Ballard, who was one of the Supremes of '60s Motown fame.

EDIT:
If it is - one of their hits was. "You keep me hangin' on."

[FIRSTtm134]

Try to notice details in the picture... The hair do, the 5 buttons, lines on the shirt and lines on the column?

[Kimmeh]

This is what we get for hoping the hint would be something that we could possibly make some form of half connection to...

I'm really interested to see how this connects to the game now...

[FIRSTtm134]

[QUOTE=Kimmeh;987071]This is what we get for hoping the hint would be something that we could possibly make some form of half connection to...[QUOTE]
FIRST fooled us on this one... it is a very hard hint...

[smurfgirl]

Could be a yearbook photo and I am thinking it may have been from early 90's some schools still use black and white for yearbook photos. Bill earlier recognized a few teams from being around since the very first year can anyone from those teams see if they ever had this lady on their team?

I think the game is a combo from years past so i am kind of trying to make this clue fit that idea which is probably not good...

I think this could fit well with the 20th anniversary theme... interesting idea

[Robert Cawthon]

Judging by the hair stile, I would say that this picture is from the '60s. Hard to say, though.

[pandamonium]

BALL game Florence Ballard

http://hwof.com/star/recording/the-supremes/77

not the same pic but similar column?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.longislandexchange.com/press/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/TheSupremes.gif&imgrefurl=http://muzikalia.com/foro_leermensajes.php%3Fref_foro%3D1%26ref_mensaje %3D836%26numero%3D551%26paginaanterior%3D56&usg=__epYwncO6LolFdd7wcAu8vXa-Y8c=&h=354&w=294&sz=77&hl=en&start=561&sig2=QostrJ7u7E6EXfmFXSqIXQ&zoom=1&tbnid=6gP23sc6_GAmhM:&tbnh=147&tbnw=144&ei=9M4QTb-zNoGglAf88sXJDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFlorence%2BBallard%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D 1152%26bih%3D625%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:11%2C16963&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=450&oei=U84QTb-nJ8L6lwfXuN3YCw&esq=34&page=34&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:561&tx=83&ty=85&biw=1152&bih=625

[Jessica Boucher]

I would also agree with yearbook photo. Note the ring on the ring finger right hand, typically where that would be placed.

I also think this is a scanned image. 1st, the image reverse searches are coming up with nothing, and 2nd there is an obvious white border on the top and the left. There may be something on the right, but the bottom does not have this border - someone scanned and cropped this.

[keehun]

One thing is certain. The fact is...this is a water game, folks! :rolleyes:

[synth3tk]

Not sure - but think it could be Florence Ballard, who was one of the Supremes of '60s Motown fame.

EDIT:
If it is - one of their hits was. "You keep me hangin' on."
Hard to tell from the pics I'm finding of her on Google Images. I'd be inclined to say it isn't her, but I'm not professional picture-comparerer.

Judging by the hair stile, I would say that this picture is from the '60s. Hard to say, though.
My mom was thinking late 50s/early 60s.

[Zach O]

Hmmm... Can we rule out a water game yet? :D

Has anyone tried Google Goggles yet on a physical picture? I don't think it works well on people, but it might be worth a try.

[catacon]

Image is 252x281 and 18KBs. Not sure if that means anything.

[Jeff Waegelin]

Hmmm... Can we rule out a water game yet? :D

I would say, for practical considerations totally unrelated to the hint, the answer to this question is always "Yes". :)

[Alan Anderson]

It looks a lot like Dihann Carroll to me.

[Chadius012]

Florence Ballard started her movie career in 1964. I found some technological history for that year.

Computer Mouse
Bubble Wrap
Ford Mustang
BASIC code is introduced
VCR Home Video Recorder
IBM's System/360


Bubble wrap sounds important :D

[taichichuan]

Hmm... Well, it's tough to tell. But, that looks like Wilma Rudolph. She was an Olympic sprinter and relay runner for the US at the 1960 Rome games. That explains the Greek column. So, climbing? Sprinting? Handing off batons in a relay? The possibilities are almost endless.

HTH,

Mike

[rtfgnow]

Can we DDOS a site yet?

[keehun]

In a more serious thought I think the importance is on the column being there and not necessarily what type of a column it is. I also think there might be more cryptographic meta data info we need to dig up. I'm just really glad they didn't give us some random new field part rendering...

[synth3tk]

David wins! (no, didn't figure out the game. just the image.)

http://www.tineye.com/search/c5af289126d650232e5dafdab53dbdc335dcdc66/

(Future note: This link expires 72 hours from posting.)

EDIT: Thanks to all who hinted that the image was reversed. A little GIMPing and re-Tineye-ing produced this.

[Chris is me]

I've used multiple reverse image search tools, looked through everything Florence Ballard along with a multitude of her peers and groupmates, and can't find anything even close to this picture.

We could just focus on the pole and say... hey, that pole looks a lot like FIRST's ubiquitous pole goals from 1996, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2009...

edit: Ooh, nice find David. Here's Wikipedia on her: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eva

[Mark McLeod]

Reverse the image before searching in TinEye

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414EV8CQ2VL.jpg

It's Little Eva

[IndySam]

don't have time somebody analyze this, locomotion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eva

[taichichuan]

OK, if that's Little Eva as David found in his reverse image search, then her big hit was "Locomotion". Another cart/trailer game?

Mike

[topgun]

It's obvious!

Recording star means albums. Column means the goal.

We will be stacking discs on various columns while sloshing around in 3 feet of water. It's a water game!

:)

[rtfgnow]

known by the stage name of Little Eva (after a character from Uncle Tom's Cabin)

Maybe the game has to do with a history reference.

[catacon]

Perhaps look at important events from 1943 (when she was born) and 2003 (when she died). First one I noticed from 1943: first ejection seat for an aircraft was used. :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003

[Kimmeh]

known by the stage name of Little Eva (after a character from Uncle Tom's Cabin)

Maybe the game has to do with a history reference.

I feel like "The Loco-Motion" is the bigger picture to this.

Then again, the hint comes from the GDC. Anything goes.

[Chadius012]

Maybe the game has to do with a history reference.

Most FRC games have some type of historical reference to them.

Lunacy for the lunar landings, Breakaway for the world cup, etc...

[jason701802]

The image is reversed, kind of like a mirror. What kind of game can we play with mirrors?

[TD78]

"Locomotion" sounds like a wonderful possible name to the 2011 game...

[GarrettF2395]

Whats obvious to me is locomotion. That has got to be the hint we we're supposed to get.
I wonder if the game has to do with robots being required to follow each other like a train. Or having to hall large "cars" of game pieces and deliver them somewhere on the field.
Hmm wonder if there is anything else i'm missing...

[rsisk]

OK, maybe this is not a game hint. Maybe it is a hint about the music they will be playing at the competition

[pandamonium]

Little EVA - Locomotion - walking robots

from Wikipedia

Robot locomotion is the study of how to design robot appendages and control mechanisms to allow robots to move fluidly and efficiently. Although wheeled robots are typically quite energy efficient and simple to control, other forms of locomotion may be more appropriate for a number of reasons (e.g. traversing rough terrain, moving and interacting in human environments). Furthermore, studying biped and insect-like robots may impact biomechanics.

[Chadius012]

EVA = Wallie

Locomotion along with game piece retrieval and crushing

[jerry w]

Now that you can do it
Let's make a chain now
(C'mon baby do the loco-motion)
Chug-a chug-a motion like a railway train now
(C'mon baby do the loco-motion)
Do it nice and easy now don't lose control
A little bit of rhythm and a lot of soul

[TD78]

Little EVA - Locomotion - walking robots

from Wikipedia

(e.g. traversing rough terrain)


Stairs!!

[candace.73.1995]

actually, if you look at the top of the column, there isnt a top on it.

[JaneYoung]

Back On Track following Locomotion might be something.

What about Magilla Gorilla? Hanging? Are gorillas defensive or offensive?

--
Her story is sad.

Jane

P.S. Thank you for the Game Hint!

[mobilegamer999]

quick google language detection says eva is a sweedish for of the sweedish verb eve, which means home/to home/indoors.

[Wayne TenBrink]

A reverse image & locomotion?

Perhaps we will be pushing instead of pulling...

[Jon Stratis]

Well, the Loco-motion was released in 1962. Other notable happenings in 1962:
- An extremely rare grand conjunction occurred during the new moon and solar eclipse, including the sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and the Earth.
- John Glenn became the first American to orbit the Earth
- the debut of the Hulk and of Spider-man
- The AT&T Telstar, the first commercial communications satellite, was launched
- JFK's speech at Rice (oddly, this is the 4th time that speech has come up for me in the past few months...)
- the first James Bond film
- Cuban Missile Crisis

[robodude03]

Little EVA - Locomotion - walking robots

from Wikipedia

Robot locomotion is the study of how to design robot appendages and control mechanisms to allow robots to move fluidly and efficiently. Although wheeled robots are typically quite energy efficient and simple to control, other forms of locomotion may be more appropriate for a number of reasons (e.g. traversing rough terrain, moving and interacting in human environments). Furthermore, studying biped and insect-like robots may impact biomechanics.

I definitely think you have something here. The column could be in reference to actually climbing something or "traversing rough terrain".

[synth3tk]

A reverse image & locomotion?

Perhaps we will be pushing instead of pulling...
That's an interesting way of looking at it. They had to go through some effort to reverse the image, unless they happened to have found/received the image in that state.

[Bruneau1727]

Back On Track following Locomotion might be something.

What about Magilla Gorilla? Hanging? Are gorillas defensive or offensive?

--
Her story is sad.

Jane

P.S. Thank you for the Game Hint!

I agree that her story is sad, they really used to abuse performers in those days! Can you imagine having a hit song and earning peanuts these days?

I am already working on ways to climb a column

[synth3tk]

I am already working on ways to climb a column
This is FIRST. I wouldn't spend a significant amount of time on it just yet. ;)

[Randy Picolet]

Now that you can do it
Let's make a chain now
(C'mon baby do the loco-motion)
Chug-a chug-a motion like a railway train now
(C'mon baby do the loco-motion)
Do it nice and easy now don't lose control
A little bit of rhythm and a lot of soul
"let's make a chain now"

Hints in the past have rarely given away the main focus of the game, but sometimes allude to autonomous/bonus features. How about forming a train (locomotion) of 2 or 3 robots as the bonus?

[whcirobotics]

I went to youtube and found the song "Locomotion" by Little Eva. I noticed that the singers at the back were on stairs. :S Robots climbing stairs seems awkward but a possibility?

Here is the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5OoQadZTPk

[frcchile]

Hey Look http://www.tineye.com/search/c5af289126d650232e5dafdab53dbdc335dcdc66/
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IPleWqe4J7M/TODrodVFIfI/AAAAAAAAC6g/lN69wXc1ojE/s1600/The_Supremes_%2528Promo_Pic_1%2529.png

[Ian Curtis]

Well, the Loco-motion was released in 1962. Other notable happenings in 1962:
- the first James Bond film


That'd be a fun one!

"Name's Robot, FIRST Robot"
"<gamepiece> shaken, not stirred."

It'd be a neat game mechanic to have to shake something, but I'm not sure how you'd work it in. At any rate, we're pretty far in left field here. :rolleyes:

(You guys are fast!) :ahh:

[FIRSTtm134]

It was an image reversed... So basically what we saw was not reality.

> Things are not always what they seem

Game in which something mid match changes? More than autonomous to oc and oc to finale... something in the oc that changes and you have to account for, field piece transformation? defense offense switches?

[Rob Colatutto]

I believe her first single was used on an episode of HBO's "Curb you Enthusiasm", which would of course mean we have a curb on the field. So there will be a perimeter around the field that you need to climb a 2004 style step to get up. For those of us who have been doing this for quite some time, you'll remember the official game hint for 2004 was the song "Stairway to Heaven". Sometimes the hints are extremely straight forward, so much so that you don't believe they'd be that obvious.

/edit
Roy on the British show "The IT Crowd" also sung her song "The Locomotion" in one episode while wearing red lipstick
/edit

[Bruneau1727]

This is FIRST. I wouldn't spend a significant amount of time on it just yet. ;)

I don't have anything else to work on, except oh no! I just realized we might be carrying columns! (or putting them in a pool of water)

[Robert Cawthon]

Now that you can do it
Let's make a chain now
(C'mon baby do the loco-motion)
Chug-a chug-a motion like a railway train now
(C'mon baby do the loco-motion)
Do it nice and easy now don't lose control
A little bit of rhythm and a lot of soul

The robots have to dance?

[synth3tk]

Here's thought for food:

People keep hinting at stairs, correct? This is a special year in FIRST, correct? Stairs have been used in a previous game, correct?

What other previous game elements/features can you extract from this game hint? It's possible we're seeing a combination of games from years past.

[Dr Theta]

Does anyone else think it is interesting that this image came from something called the complete Dimension recordings? It would have again probably taken effort to remove that from the image...

[catacon]

I don't think the image being reversed is part of the clue. I think they were just making it harder for people to reverse image search it.

I like the idea of Robot locomotion and definitely something with stairs. It would be nice to see FIRST getting away from "simple" wheeled robots and move into more challenging terrain that requires something other than simple AWD and traction control.

[SteveGPage]

Bill's Facebook post says "the first FRC game hint (that we're admitting to)" tells me that there are other hints out there. In his previous posts we have seen:
* stair picture
* "hang in there"
* "stand by"
* Two steps forward, one step back
* View from 30,000 feet

I would think one or more of those could be additional hints, as it may relate to this picture - its setting, the artist, orientation, songs, etc.

My $0.02
* reversed train tracks - above the field, not on the field.
* bots that have to climb up or attach to tracks
* move on tracks
* hang on tracks
* vertical movement
* field elements above the playing field

[Ian Curtis]

Here's thought for food:

People keep hinting at stairs, correct? This is a special year in FIRST, correct? Stairs have been used in a previous game, correct?

What other previous game elements/features can you extract from this game hint? It's possible we're seeing a combination of games from years past.

Yes, but they have never been a particularly important feature. In 2004 many teams elected to just climb straight to the top of the platform via the shear edge since the goal was hard to get around if you climbed the stairs. Extra smart teams just hung from the floor (i.e. 71).

The column reminds me of the tall PVC tube goals FIRST used frequently prior to 2005. We saw them as trailers in 2009, but they used to show up almost every year in the 1990s and first part of this decade.

[Robert Cawthon]

It was an image reversed... So basically what we saw was not reality.

> Things are not always what they seem

Game in which something mid match changes? More than autonomous to oc and oc to finale... something in the oc that changes and you have to account for, field piece transformation? defense offense switches?

This happened in 'Aim High' when the first half of driver controll allowed one team to overload the offense and the second half allowed the other team to overload the offense.

Not out of the question.

[Matt Goelz]

* "stand by"



like 2006? where one robot coundnt cross midfeild during part of the game..

[pandamonium]

things from bill's blogs:

picture of design committee on stairs for bill's birthday

Title: The view from 3000 feet - discussing dean flying - plains use a technique known as stepping, when they lose fuel they get lighter and need to maintain a new optimal altitude.

Title: Two steps forward one step back.

he made bold STAND by in the last entry

Now we add locomotion

Conclusion: Either we are not allowed to use wheels this year and or their are stairs we need to climb

[FIRSTtm134]

I loved the 2004 game where it had stairs and the 2010 game where we had to climb... I love hanging games and staircase games, i think it is unique and a challenge. I would love to see another one!

[pfreivald]

Conclusion: Either we are not allowed to use wheels this year and or their are stairs we need to climb

Must be something in the WNY water -- I came to the same conclusion... ("Conclusion", in this case, meaning "near-baseless speculation".)

...of course, there's the possibility that the "or" in your statement should be an "and"...

[synth3tk]

I loved the 2004 game where it had stairs and the 2010 game where we had to climb... I love hanging games and staircase games, i think it is unique and a challenge. I would love to see another one!
Certainly more interesting to watch than driving around in circles on a flat field. Sorry, 2008.

[FIRSTtm134]

Certainly more interesting to watch than driving around in circles on a flat field. Sorry, 2008.

Or driving around a field playing bumper bots. Sorry, 2009.

[BIGWILLI2081]

with the idea of combining games, the idea of the game name being "loco-motion", and the reversed picture, possibly something like overdrive except alliances go opposite ways?

[FIRSTtm134]

with the idea of combining games, the idea of the game name being "loco-motion", and the reversed picture, possibly something like overdrive except alliances go opposite ways?
Dear god. If i have to play another game where i go around in a circle i will lost all faith in the GDC!

[ghostmachine360]

Feeling like I should listen to all the songs from the Supremes......

[catacon]

with the idea of combining games, the idea of the game name being "loco-motion", and the reversed picture, possibly something like overdrive except alliances go opposite ways?

LOL That would be absolute madness. The 2008 game wasn't terrible, but I think they need to leave that game type alone for awhile.

[CassCity2081]

with the idea of combining games, the idea of the game name being "loco-motion", and the reversed picture, possibly something like overdrive except alliances go opposite ways?

Along with the idea of Loco-motion being the name of the game, could it be possible that they are going to mess with our motion, kind of like they did in 2009 with the 1/6th gravity effect.

[Robert Cawthon]

The term 'Loco' is Spanish for 'crazy' indicating a crazy motion as part of the dance. What does this mean for our 'bots? :ahh:

[s_forbes]

I don't think the image being reversed is part of the clue. I think they were just making it harder for people to reverse image search it.

Given how much effort gets put into figuring out the game hint by all of these smart robotics-enthusiasts, I doubt the GDC would think for a moment that reversing the image would trip us up. The source of the image was figured out within the first two hours of being released!

I think the mirror imaging means something. ...Or they anticipated this string of logic and mirrored it to throw us off. :)

[jerry w]

Of course my favorite Little Eva song is;
"What I gotta do (to make you jealous)".
This may not be important, but there is a line in that song;
"When are you gonna start acting like you really care"

[Team#2057-Vegas]

don't have time somebody analyze this, locomotion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eva

I was just about to say that.. maybe cargo moving? Moving other robots? This game could be a blast just from those thoughts :ahh:

I sent the picture to all my team mates of 2057.. my parents remember that picture and have indeed confirmed Little Eva.. Stairs sound like a plausible thing.. whatever it is.. I can't wait :D

Now all we need is for Dave to come in and change our thoughts :rolleyes:

[pandamonium]

Must be something in the WNY water -- I came to the same conclusion... ("Conclusion", in this case, meaning "near-baseless speculation".)

...of course, there's the possibility that the "or" in your statement should be an "and"...

nah i meant it like one or the other or both

I think Jason from 340 posted the stuff about stepping a week or so ago
so yeah definitely something in our water

I think they will keep the third gate from last year so where do the stairs go?

can't go along the outside because of safety and no one seeing anything. could divide the field in three sections like last year and have 6 sets or divide it in half and have 2 sets. Could also be up against the wall like in 06. The point being there aren't that many field arrangements they can do with stairs, it limits them a bit.

[SteveGPage]

Another possible implication in this clue - Little "EVA" - referring to Extra-vehicular activity - a space walk. Maybe we have to locomote in 3 "Dimension" (the agency label on the picture).

[Jon Stratis]

I bet they mirrored it just to prevent the first post on CD saying "Game hint #1: Little Eva" I mean seriously... they need to at least make us work a little for it!

[robodude03]

things from bill's blogs:

picture of design committee on stairs for bill's birthday

Title: The view from 3000 feet - discussing dean flying - plains use a technique known as stepping, when they lose fuel they get lighter and need to maintain a new optimal altitude.

Title: Two steps forward one step back.

he made bold STAND by in the last entry

Now we add locomotion

Conclusion: Either we are not allowed to use wheels this year and or their are stairs we need to climb

Perhaps there is also a link to the lyrics in the locomotion song:

You gotta swing your hips, now.
Come on, baby, jump up, jump back.
Well, now, I think you've got the knack.

[Robert Cawthon]

Another possible implication in this clue - Little "EVA" - referring to Extra-vehicular activity - a space walk. Maybe we have to locomote in 3 "Dimension" (the agency label on the picture).

How about a cheap little remote control vehicle carried by the bot which is released sometime during the game to perform a given task, perhaps controlled by what was the human player?

[dodar]

Ok my first thought when i saw stand by was the pressure pads used in 2005 for tetra loading.
And my thought on the stairs and his 30,000ft comment was maybe you have to climb stairs to a 2nd level of the competition field.
Something is also just telling me that the vertical lines in both the beam and her shirt have some significance along with that shirt having 5 buttons also in a vertical pattern.
And a hint towards climbing is also present because she is wrapping her arms around the beam.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

How about a cheap little remote control vehicle carried by the bot which is released sometime during the game to perform a given task, perhaps controlled by what was the human player?

great thought robert! that would be insane! Did you notice in FIRST Choice we could choose a ftc extras kit? That makes this sound twice as plausible! programming 2 robots.. 1 to carry the other?

at the same time.. this sounds like a lot to do in near 2 minutes.. :eek:

[JaneYoung]

Well, the Loco-motion was released in 1962. Other notable happenings in 1962:
- An extremely rare grand conjunction occurred during the new moon and solar eclipse, including the sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and the Earth.
- John Glenn became the first American to orbit the Earth
- the debut of the Hulk and of Spider-man
- The AT&T Telstar, the first commercial communications satellite, was launched
- JFK's speech at Rice (oddly, this is the 4th time that speech has come up for me in the past few months...)
- the first James Bond film
- Cuban Missile Crisis

I wonder if there is anything here. One of Dave Lavery's heroes is John Glenn.

Grand conjunction sounds interesting...

[GGCO]

I initially thought that this clue tells us something about the end game. Perhaps the robots must push/pull other robots up a pole or something like that?

At this point I can't decide whether or not to take the lyrics of Loco-motion more seriously than the column in the picture.

[GGCO]

I wonder if there is anything here. One of Dave Lavery's heroes is John Glenn.

Grand conjunction sounds interesting...

Conjunction is a word associated with trains. I am reminded of the "Conjunction junction" video all of our elementary grammar teachers showed us!

[Team#2057-Vegas]

I wonder if there is anything here. One of Dave Lavery's heroes is John Glenn.

Grand conjunction sounds interesting...

interesting as well.. but at the same time we had a space thing 2 years ago and we know USFirst isn't going to repeat that soon, are they? Let's all start researching that list a little more.. ::rtm::

[Kimmeh]

At this point I can't decide whether or not to take the lyrics of Loco-motion more seriously than the column in the picture.

Take neither of them seriously! Or both of them! Or assign one of them heads and the other tails, and flip a coin! It's not like it makes much of a difference... :rolleyes:

18 days...

[JaneYoung]

interesting as well.. but at the same time we had a space thing 2 years ago and we know USFirst isn't going to repeat that soon, are they? Let's all start researching that list a little more.. ::rtm::

They would if games were combined or interconnected in some way.

[pfreivald]

Grand conjunction = planets = spherical game pieces.

(Note: When it comes to figuring out hints, I'm 0/6.)

[dodar]

Guessing games I'm 2/3 but my brother is 1/1.

[Greg Young]

My wife may be right because you folks certainly have a lot more imagination than I do.

It's all very straightforward. It is well known that the GDC uses people as stand-ins for robots when developing the game. We just need to consider Little Eva as a robot stand-in. What is she doing? Hanging onto a column. So we have a robot hanging onto a column.

Now let's go back to what we thought was a red herring from Dave back in November, a tennis ball. This new information makes it obvious.

My official game prediction:
The scoring object this year will be tennis balls. It could be the oversize tennis balls some mentioned in the red herring thread. On the field will be a four inch diameter pipe (column), probably eight to ten feet tall. Or maybe two pipes, one for each alliance. The GDC is good with these details. The top of the pipe will be covered with a spring loaded cover attached to a sleeve around the top 18 inches of the pipe. Scoring is accomplished by dropping the tennis balls down the pipe. But before you can do this a robot has to climb the pipe, grab the sleeve and put enough weight on the sleeve to open the cover.

I've been waiting for this game for years. This'll be awesome.

Greg

P.S. Humor has been attempted in this post. Sometimes my attempts at humor don't work so well.

[Robert Cawthon]

great thought robert! that would be insane! Did you notice in FIRST Choice we could choose a ftc extras kit? That makes this sound twice as plausible! programming 2 robots.. 1 to carry the other?

at the same time.. this sounds like a lot to do in near 2 minutes.. :eek:

Also, weren't the early 'bots small, like VEX?

[Team#2057-Vegas]

Conjunction is a word associated with trains. I am reminded of the "Conjunction junction" video all of our elementary grammar teachers showed us!

I think this game is somehow based off that eclipse last night.. its a once in a lifetime thing that wont happen for another 500 years or more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_%28astronomy_and_astrology%29

When they get even closer.. its called an appulse.. and even closer than that.. an occulation.. it has to do with eclipses though.. which of one we had last night.. maybe there really is a link?

think of a game like this.. stairs in the middle going to a platform with vase like structiures.. (it goes back to the roman-greek times of astronomy).. we start at the bottoms and have to go all the way to the otherside.. (up and down the stairs) to grab our pieces and put them on the vases in the correct order.. but the order is what makes it more complicated..

food for thought :yikes:

[GGCO]

I'm really skeptical of another space themed game. I think the reoccurring theme here is railroads/chains. Maybe the poll, but I think that's a red herring of sorts.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

Also, weren't the early 'bots small, like VEX?

never thought of that.. goes good with the 20th anniversary thing

[Rob Colatutto]

great thought robert! that would be insane! Did you notice in FIRST Choice we could choose a ftc extras kit? That makes this sound twice as plausible! programming 2 robots.. 1 to carry the other?

at the same time.. this sounds like a lot to do in near 2 minutes.. :eek:

A lot of teams did this in 2002. For the home zone scoring, you only needed to touch the zone, not be completely inside of it. Many teams had a small robot that drove off their robot, connected by the AC/control wires as a tether, and drove it back to their home zone in the last 15 or so seconds to score the bonus points.

/edit
This is in reference to the "mini-bot" discussion

Also of interest here, is that many of these small robots got run over by the larger robots, or crushed in between goals, or between a goal and the player station wall. A great example of this is team 329's 2002 robot at the SBPLI Long Island Regional. I may be able to dig up a video of this somewhere later on.
/edit

[Team#2057-Vegas]

A lot of teams did this in 2002. For the home zone scoring, you only needed to touch the zone, not be completely inside of it. Many teams had a small robot that drove off their robot, connected by the AC/control wires as a tether, and drove it back to their home zone in the last 15 or so seconds to score the bonus points.

i need to research the old games more.. this is my 3rd year aha..

Offtopic: Rob, is Team Spyder coming to the Vegas regional again? You guys are awesome, incredibly impressed me last year.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

I know I'm posting a little.. but for some more food for thought.. here's a list of all the historical events in 1991.. 20 years ago when FRC began.. any ideas? enjoy reading!

http://www.hisdates.com/years/1991-historical-events.html ::rtm::

[pandamonium]

can we brainstorm what game pieces would go good with stairs?

[Gary Dillard]

A lot of teams did this in 2002. For the home zone scoring, you only needed to touch the zone, not be completely inside of it. Many teams had a small robot that drove off their robot, connected by the AC/control wires as a tether, and drove it back to their home zone in the last 15 or so seconds to score the bonus points.


Don't even get me started on the Woodie Flowers "Well even though it's against the rules, we'll allow it because they put so much effort into it" debate from 2002.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

can we brainstorm what game pieces would go good with stairs?

well.. knowing the GDC always wants to make it as hard as possible.. it would likely be a ball.. they dont usually sit well on stairs :) boxes on the otherhand do work..

opinion depends on your level of optimism

[Robert Cawthon]

can we brainstorm what game pieces would go good with stairs?

That one is easy! Cubes! When pushed together and stacked correctly, they make the stairs! We have to make the stairs, climb up, and do something (perhaps drop a tennis ball down a vertical tube) to score.

[GGCO]

We need to think about what would be exciting for our audience (a group of non-nerds) to watch. Personally, I don't think watching robots build stairs is an exciting spectator sport.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

That one is easy! Cubes! When pushed together and stacked correctly, they make the stairs! We have to make the stairs, climb up, and do something (perhaps drop a tennis ball down a vertical tube) to score.

that one actually makes a ton of sense.. it even adds in the "jumping" part someone mentioned from locamotion.. this would probably make for bigger game alliances (the idea of a train having several cars) which follows what first has been trying to do which is to have more games in a regional.. my ADD mind is already thinking about how bonus points would be part of this one :)

edit/ I'm really flipflopping everytime someone makes ideas.. hmm.. /edit

[Dustin Shadbolt]

We need to think about what would be exciting for our audience (a group of non-nerds) to watch. Personally, I don't think watching robots build stairs is an exciting spectator sport.

However climbing and playing on an elevated field or something would be.

[Sam Lipscomb]

The image is reversed, kind of like a mirror. What kind of game can we play with mirrors?

If for some reason the mirror-image does play a role in the game...

What if the game were mirror-imaged? Autonomous mode last, AFTER the 2 minutes of teleoperation?

[dodar]

That one is easy! Cubes! When pushed together and stacked correctly, they make the stairs! We have to make the stairs, climb up, and do something (perhaps drop a tennis ball down a vertical tube) to score.

That sounds actually very intruiging! Build the field in your favor to reach something.

[EJB2081]

What if there was a sort of train car with an open top that you have to load a ball int?

could circle the field overdrive style but on train tracks outlining the field

[Robert Cawthon]

If for some reason the mirror-image does play a role in the game...

What if the game were mirror-imaged? Autonomous mode last, AFTER the 2 minutes of teleoperation?

My head hurts thinking about trying to program that one!

[Sam Lipscomb]

We need to think about what would be exciting for our audience (a group of non-nerds) to watch. Personally, I don't think watching robots build stairs is an exciting spectator sport.

I doubt that climbing stairs would be the entire game. But keep in mind that one of Dean's inventions is the iBOT, a wheelchair that can climb stairs. There's no reason it couldn't be one aspect of the 20th anniversary game, just like it was one aspect of the 2004 game!

[EJB2081]

If for some reason the mirror-image does play a role in the game...

What if the game were mirror-imaged? Autonomous mode last, AFTER the 2 minutes of teleoperation?

having autonomous after would put in a need for the camera they tried to implement before.....

just saying it would add to the bring in aspects from every year 20th anniversary thing

[hornetshornets]

For all those who have suggested loco-motion to mean something to do with trains, Amtrak started in May of 1971. That would mean that 2011 is Amtrak's 40 year anniversary

[Karibou]

There is another picture of Little Eva with a column, so I don't think that the column itself is as important as Little Eva is:
http://katiehann.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/250little-eva2.jpg
Maybe it is a field element, but I don't want to speculate on that right now >.>

The image being flipped probably does have something to do with the game, though I don't know what. Maybe the two sides of the field are flipped versions of each other? I'm just saying this because they DID give us a pretty-much-straight-off-of-Google picture of the Opah two years ago, and they would be kind of ignorant to not expect us to figure out any picture (that wasn't generated by them) hint really quickly, no matter what state it's in.

What I find kind of interesting is that the picture covers a longer area than the one that is on the record cover (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414EV8CQ2VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg). Look - in the image provided by FIRST, you can see from her right elbow down. I wonder where they got this picture from? I doubt it's important, but now I'm rather curious.

[BEEKMAN]

Yeah, I doubt that the image itself has much to do with the game, i feel like FIRST in the past more likes to do whats IN the image (Ie Moon fish...)

[dbeckwith]

I notice that the column seems cut off right at about her height. Maybe part of the reason she's in the picture is to show that the poles are only about 5'6"? The pole also seems kind of reflective.

[dodar]

Maybe they are saying that we are going to show you more but we are going to be deceptive of the direction we are sending you. Also, another #5 reference, the record cover has 5 L's.

[alicen]

So after reading through many of the posts in this thread, I came to a sort of muddy idea.

The hint seems to be pointing at "Locomotion" and possibly stairs. To me, this says rails, cargo and climbing. Others mentioned how it might be a mish-mash of some previous game components to create this one, so here's what I've got:

Stairs could mean anything really. It doesn't have to necessarily be exact stairs, it could be a series of steps that aren't exactly the same height from each other, and aren't even going in the same direction. This would be difficult to pull off in mass to create a field, but it's something to keep in mind when you think about stairs. Stairs have also been seen in other games, so it adds to the combination of things from the past theory.

Rails can be seen in the 1998 FRC game Ladder Logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladder_Logic). What if you have to climb up a staircase, or a column or anything really to put the game piece on a set of rails? Could be very interesting. The rails also tie directly back to the past year's game for transporting the game piece back onto the field. What if this year, it takes it off?

This brings me to the last part, I saw where people had mentioned "STAND by" and that made me think of Triple Play from 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Play_(FIRST)). I was a volunteer that year, and it was probably the scariest game to volunteer for in my opinion, especially if you were the "automated loader" person haha. But for this year's game, what if the human player for the teams was in the stand by box to catch the game piece? After they've got it, they probably have to do something more than just throw it back onto the field, but it's a thought.

Karibou -- I was looking through google images and came across the exact game hint picture (but reversed) when I did a search for Little Eva, so I imagine that the GDC grabbed it from there or another similar place.

[EricH]

Don't even get me started on the Woodie Flowers "Well even though it's against the rules, we'll allow it because they put so much effort into it" debate from 2002.That was only on the tape measures, IIRC. A number of the mini-bots were built before that ruling, and built not to entangle. I know 330's had a scissors lift protecting the power cord--until that debate, when most of that lift came off.

Back to the matter at hand: I think the important parts are a) that the picture was reversed and b) who is in the picture. The other part is album name/song name, because there are easier ways to get the person.

The column doesn't factor in here, yet. (Until hint #2, that is.)

[r2davis2]

I hate to be a party-pooper, but couldn't it just be a hint at the name, probably locomotion. Didn't Bill mention something in a recent blog about finally figuring out a name for the game, and wasnt there a hint only for the name in the past(don't know the year but remember someone mentioning it)

Aside from that I can't see us having to build stairs because the first image that comes to mind is a robot on collapsing stairs landing on another robot.

With the chained-together idea, what if it means working together and its another 4v0 type game, or a single alliance

[dodar]

That was only on the tape measures, IIRC. A number of the mini-bots were built before that ruling, and built not to entangle. I know 330's had a scissors lift protecting the power cord--until that debate, when most of that lift came off.

Back to the matter at hand: I think the important parts are a) that the picture was reversed and b) who is in the picture. The other part is album name/song name, because there are easier ways to get the person.

The column doesn't factor in here, yet. (Until hint #2, that is.)

Now this is gonna be my 5th year in FIRST but 1st as a mentor, but I dont really remember many game hints but whats the average time period between game hints being released?

[Mike Marandola]

I have identified the woman as Eva Narcissus Boyd or "Little Eva".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eva
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000024VI6

[FlyingD662]

Off-topic: THIS IS THE REASON WHY I LOVE FIRST!

Anyway, either way you spin it, it's looking like an interesting season for the drive train teams! Looks like team 662 will finally get rid of the tank drive this year!

What if the alliances had to retrieve small carts or train pieces from various levels of the field and put a train together? Certain colors were certain points? Just fueling the fire here people... Although it's quite the bonfire now :)

[r2davis2]

What if the game is like snake, where the point is to attach all the game pieces in a large train and trail them behind you. Though that ignores many other clues.

[EricH]

Now this is gonna be my 5th year in FIRST but 1st as a mentor, but I dont really remember many game hints but whats the average time period between game hints being released?
Prior to 2003: zero hints.
2003-2007: 1 hint per season.
2008: 3 hints, 1st mailed to teams, 2nd a couple weeks later, 3rd a couple weeks after that.
2009: 2 hints, probably about 1-2 weeks apart.
2010: 2 hints, same timespan.

[alicen]

We also have to keep in mind that the GDC has to create a game that everyone can play. That means rookies can play too, which probably means that "no wheels" is not an option (I saw that mentioned earlier in the thread).

[Team#2057-Vegas]

I think I may have to block chief delphi on my computer for the day.. so many thoughts are going to drive me bonkers :ahh: .. nvm. I give up.. I'll keep thinking!

18 days til kickoff guys!

[Karibou]

Anyway, either way you spin it, it's looking like an interesting season for the drive train teams! Looks like team 662 will finally get rid of the tank drive this year!

I wouldn't rule out tank drive yet - we still don't know what the terrain is or how the robots have to interact for each other. Save that speculation for after kickoff!

[JaneYoung]

We also have to keep in mind that the GDC has to create a game that everyone can play. That means rookies can play too, which probably means that "no wheels" is not an option (I saw that mentioned earlier in the thread).

We've played without wheels in BEST before. It was a stationary robot. I liked some of the elements of the game but we were all happy to see wheels again.

And - I would never ever underestimate a rookie. Ever.

Jane

[dodar]

We've played without wheels in BEST before. It was a stationary robot. I liked some of the elements of the game but we were all happy to see wheels again.

And - I would never ever underestimate a rookie. Ever.

Jane

I'll give you 2 perfect examples: 2056 and 3357

[pandamonium]

so if you do not use wheels you start with an additional 5 points

or every game piece you score counts for 2 points instead of 1

or an endgame bonus: Robots not supported by wheels, other robots or field elements get an additional 20 points.

The kit could be a simple walking design kind of like a hex bug

[dlavery]

Now all we need is for Dave to come in and change our thoughts :rolleyes:

Who? Me? :rolleyes:





.

[EricH]

Dave, don't you have an animation to be working on?

pandamonium, I don't think there was ever a bonus for using the RCX over the NXT.

[Robert Cawthon]

Who? Me? :rolleyes:


.

Of course, you! Who else is so fiendishly evil to twist our poor little minds like you so love to do?

[FlyingD662]

Who? Me? :rolleyes:





.

Ohhh boy here we go... Take it away Dave!

[Karibou]

Who? Me? :rolleyes:





.

Yes, you! Dave stole the cookies from the cookie jar...or, rather, the KKs from the box sitting on the table.

[pandamonium]

maybe we shouldn't blame Dave anymore. :) It seems to me that Bill has taken over as the new mastermind, dropping hints about stairs and the view at 3000ft. Other than a tennis ball Dave hasn't been too diabolical recently.

-I may regret saying this though-

[Robert Cawthon]

maybe we shouldn't blame Dave anymore. :) It seems to me that Bill has taken over as the new mastermind, dropping hints about stairs and the view at 3000ft. Other than a tennis ball Dave hasn't been too diabolical recently.

-I may regret saying this though-

How about his references to Paisley and Green?

[JaneYoung]

maybe we shouldn't blame Dave anymore. :) It seems to me that Bill has taken over as the new mastermind, dropping hints about stairs and the view at 3000ft. Other than a tennis ball Dave hasn't been too diabolical recently.

-I may regret saying this though-

Messengers can be very important. Bill Miller is directly connected to FRC - and can connect the official game hint (and perhaps drop hints with unofficial ones) all the while being the messenger via the blog. I wouldn't necessarily call that a mastermind. Those guys (the masterminds) are still dwelling in the GDC and they are alive and well. They all work together on this.

Jane

[mnajork]

Maybe we're looking at it too in-depth. Look at what last year's game hint turned out to be. Maybe the black-and-white photo here is hinting at something old-school or old-fashioned. This could mean a recreation of one of the original FRC games.

[Sunshine]

Who? Me? :rolleyes:





.

Hey Dave,

Send me that game animation and I'll proof it for ya' LOL:D :ahh:

[Robert Cawthon]

Although I really don't have any clues, I am thinking that smaller bots may be the way of the future, although maybe not this year. They can be cheaper, easier to transport, and miniturization is the way to go in the future.

[JaneYoung]

Although I really don't have any clues, I am thinking that smaller bots may be the way of the future, although maybe not this year. They can be cheaper, easier to transport, and miniturization is the way to go in the future.

How small? VEX small? FTC small? BEST small? 2 difference size options small?

[Justin Montois]

I'm with R2D2, I think it's just a hint for the game name.

Welcome to the 2011 FIRST Robotics competition and this year's game Locomotion!

I think "loco" (Crazy) being the important part, They don't usually select game names that don't tie in some how. So I see lots of movement around the field not unlike 2008, also the lyrics 'Jump Up, Jump Back' are intriguing.

What if "Jump up" didn't mean jump forward as much as it did "Up"? ;)

Other ramblings while thinking this over...
- A column could also be called a pillar, 7 Pillars of wisdom..
- In space travel an EVA is an Extra Vehicular Activity

But yeah, I think there's a good chance it's the name of the game.

2011 is almost here!

[Robert Cawthon]

How small? VEX small? FTC small? BEST small? 2 difference size options small?

I like the VEX or two different size options small. How big were the first year's bots?

[Bethie42]

Grand conjunction = planets = spherical game pieces.


I too am getting the planetary vibe.
Well, the Loco-motion was released in 1962. Other notable happenings in 1962:
- An extremely rare grand conjunction occurred during the new moon and solar eclipse, including the sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and the Earth.


With last night's rare combination of lunar eclipse and winter solstice, we may be on to something but as someone else said, another space-themed game doesn't seem likely. I'm personally leaning more to the conjunction of previous games idea.

What about Dave's hint about paisley? /retro/old game elements/history.

[DMetalKong]

Little Eva -> The Loco-motion -> Loco-motion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loco-Motion_%28arcade_game%29)

Loco-Motion is basically an updated version of a sliding block puzzle game where the player can move pieces horizontally or vertically within a frame to complete a picture. However, the presence of a constantly moving locomotive complicates matters. The player controls the playfield and the aim is to guide the locomotive around the tracks to collect the passengers waiting at the stations located around the edges of the screen.

Perhaps there will be bins around the field that we constantly have to be moving pieces around in?

[pandamonium]

locomotion came out in 1962 ... paisley shirts... connection

[Teammax]

Ok so dave comes in to Stir things up. Did everyone see the sign he is standing next to?

[Teammax]

Boxcar Willie Memorial Overpass

Clue #2 (maybe)

[GGCO]

If there are going to be smaller robots on the field, then I think it'd be fair to say they'd be dropped off in a special section so they're not run over by the bigger bots.

[EricH]

Ok so dave comes in to Stir things up. Did everyone see the sign he is standing next to?
He's had that as his WAI picture for years. Nothing there that is hint-worthy.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

Who? Me? :rolleyes:

yes dave.. you.. though.. as someone pointed out.. bill has been a little ahead of you this year.. get back into the game

I do mean that as a double meaning.. tricking us.. and working on that game animation :rolleyes:

[Sunshine]

Although I really don't have any clues, I am thinking that smaller bots may be the way of the future, although maybe not this year. They can be cheaper, easier to transport, and miniturization is the way to go in the future.

You maybe right about the smaller robots. maybe the FIRST Choice selection was a hint also. Option 1 was for the FTC Mini Kit.

Makes sense.

[24568]

http://www.last.fm/music/Little+Eva/+images/6550963

this is the image FIRST used

[RoboDesigners]

I don't think there was ever a bonus for using the RCX over the NXT.

There was a bonus for using the RCX over the NXT in 2006-2008. (not sure about the end date, but I know there was one in 2006 and 07) This bonus was based on score (i.e. If they scored 100 pts, they get 5 more, 200pts, 10 more, etc.)

[jerry w]

Who? Me? :rolleyes:





.

Did he mean the band named the "Who"?
Did little Eva write something for the Who?
Does "Me" refer to Mecanical Engineer? Do we know any engineers who were in a musical group?
Did Little Eva Sing "Yellow Submarine", which means a water game.
I could go on.....

[taichichuan]

Hmm.. In another FWIW thought, EVA is NASA speak for Extra-Vehicular Activity (i.e., something outside the mother ship). So, the game's name is Loco-Motion and we're expected to do a little EVA to make it happen?

Mike

[r2davis2]

okay so eva is extravehicular activity and how do they simulate that on earth...
WATER GAME

but on a serious note can anyone find a connection to 4 as I remember there was a lot of connections to 4 with the red herring tennis ball

[rcmolloy]

Maybe they are saying that we are going to show you more but we are going to be deceptive of the direction we are sending you. Also, another #5 reference, the record cover has 5 L's.

Excuse me if I am wrong but there are also five buttons on her shirt and 5 enter spaces in Dave's post. Hmmm

[taichichuan]

Hmm... Pushing tennis balls in a train outside of the robot's perimeter over steps (or into water ;-)? Geez, this is getting pretty thin on two measly pictures...

Mike

[BrendanB]

Nice picture... 18 more days! :)

[synth3tk]

http://www.last.fm/music/Little+Eva/+images/6550963

this is the image FIRST used
So they did have to reverse it! That lends credibility to the "it's mirrored for a reason" theories floating around.

[remulasce]

You've got it all wrong, guys.... It's obviously a Minecraft game, in celebration of the beta.

The "4" hints at the rectangular nature of the terrain and world in general

The "Locomotion" hints at minecarts... maybe some sort of mining game? Mine then carry the ore away?

The column is like a mineshaft you dig straight down.

Maybe the title is "FRCraft"

[Dustin Shadbolt]

Ah I love this time of the year. It's finally hint time :).

[Carolyn_Grace]

Just throwing some stuff out there:

1. Today is the Winter Solstice...perhaps they specifically picked today to release the game for a reason...

2. Reversing the image also seems intentional....perhaps goals can reverse/change sides without notice?

3. Locomotion: rough terrain....railroad tracks across the field to go over?

4. Eva...Wall-E...space...lots of environmental friendly stuff going on in FIRST right now....Green game somehow?

[acebansal]

well after having read the 12 pages finally, there is one thing that comes to my mind that doesn't seem to have been mentioned:
MOVING GAME PIECES!
maybe we have stationary robots, like someone said earlier, and somehow we have to grab the game pieces which are moving around.
or maybe our robots aren't stationary, but there are still moving game pieces
has it been done before? this is my 2nd year, so i wouldn't know...

[JaneYoung]

Just throwing some stuff out there:
3. Locomotion: rough terrain....railroad tracks across the field to go over?


The ribbing in Little Eva's sweater mimics the column.

Bumpy? That would be hard on the robot.

Edit: you use circular knitting needles to knit a ribbed pattern. The column is circular. Circular tracks. Pushing, linking, collecting?

There's also a sense of doom if we don't wise up. Maybe green stuff there. Pollution, misuse of natural resources, not working together to problem solve/arrive to solutions - Maybe the alliances will work together differently in the competition. You know - that coopertition thing. I can definitely see that as a larger message as part of the 20th year recognition and inspiration aspect of the celebration. In other words, dig a little deeper than an empty celebration. You may find a green herring. *wanders off to find her coffee....*

[smurfgirl]

well after having read the 12 pages finally, there is one thing that comes to my mind that doesn't seem to have been mentioned:
MOVING GAME PIECES!
maybe we have stationary robots, like someone said earlier, and somehow we have to grab the game pieces which are moving around.
or maybe our robots aren't stationary, but there are still moving game pieces
has it been done before? this is my 2nd year, so i wouldn't know...

Well in 2009 the goals were attached to the robots...

I'm going to stick with my theory that to celebrate FIRST's 20th anniversary, this game is going to incorporate elements from previous years.

[catacon]

Bumpy terrain would be excellent. Building robust robots is something lots of teams need to work on. LOL

Perhaps combine the ideas of locomotion and stationary robots. Maybe the robots will be put on to "train tracks" and move around a predetermined course while having to collect game pieces.

I also like the idea of combining previous game elements for the 20th anniversary.

[Teammax]

I guess I am trying to reverse engineer the clue. Would someone want to use the word "Eva" and then find her picture? I don't think so there are tons of 'Eva's out there if you just google the word. Or if they wanted to show columms would that be a pic easily found to display?

It seems to me working backwards if the name of the game has to do with "Loco Motion" then the song is an obvious choice for the clue and then the pic makes sense.

[billbo911]

I guess I am trying to reverse engineer the clue. Would someone want to use the word "Eva" and then find her picture? I don't think so there are tons of 'Eva's out there if you just google the word. Or if they wanted to show columms would that be a pic easily found to display?

It seems to me working backwards if the name of the game has to do with "Loco Motion" then the song is an obvious choice for the clue and then the pic makes sense.

How about "E.V.A." Extra Vehicular Activity?

[Teammax]

How about "E.V.A." Extra Vehicular Activity?

I completely understand that E.V.A. makes sense for a game. What I mean is if you wanted to have a clue about E.V.A. would the singer of "The locomotion' come to mind? Could you even google EVA and come up with her name?

Im certainly not saying I am right nor would I even bet that I am right. Just my line of reasoning. I could see myself thinking about how to give a clue about "Locomotion" and coming up with her picture

[NVM92]

With the hint of loco-motion it does seem that trains would be some part of it. Dave lavery's picture involves him standing next to a sign that says "boxcar". I wouldn't count that picture out as another clue for it being a train like game. EVA could be a reference to a small robot or vehicle you have to collect and add to your train. It could also be a reference to lunacy with the trailers. Maybe everyone has to have slick wheels again? Human players were known as payload specialists and there where other human players in corner fueling stations. Both terms can apply to trains. Slick wheels, trailers, bump in the middle. Maybe its a race like overdrive and it ends in lifting your robot and train up off the ground. Have I used enough games from the past? :ahh:

[dag0620]

Alright so coming into this late in the game, (I'm not going through 10 pages off stuff) my initial reactions

Who is that???
Does she personally have anything to do with robotics?
I think the Pillar might have something to do with it.....

If someone who been following the thread wants to do me a favor and give ne a summarization of whats going on it would be.

[Danny Diaz]

Maybe we're looking at it too in-depth. Look at what last year's game hint turned out to be. Maybe the black-and-white photo here is hinting at something old-school or old-fashioned. This could mean a recreation of one of the original FRC games.

That's where my money is. And the fact that the image is reversed from the original image - a recreation of an original FRC game (or multiple games) that have been "twisted" in some way. Would also fit with what most competitions do with "anniversary" type games.

-Danny

[Teammax]

Alright so Coming into this late in the game, (I'm not going through 10 pages off stuff) my intialr reactions

Who is that???
Does she personally have anything to do with robotics?
I think the Pillar might have something to do with it.....

if someone who been following the thread wants to do me a favor and give ne a summarization of whats going on it would be.

You should skim most of it. There is a lot their worth reading

[BJC]

Alright so Coming into this late in the game, (I'm not going through 10 pages off stuff) my intialr reactions

Who is that???
Does she personally have anything to do with robotics?
I think the Pillar might have something to do with it.....

if someone who been following the thread wants to do me a favor and give ne a summarization of whats going on it would be.

To sum it up... We know nothing.

[catacon]

Alright so Coming into this late in the game, (I'm not going through 10 pages off stuff) my intialr reactions

Who is that???
Does she personally have anything to do with robotics?
I think the Pillar might have something to do with it.....

if someone who been following the thread wants to do me a favor and give ne a summarization of whats going on it would be.

Little Eva. Sang "Locomotion". Born in 1943. Died in 2003.

[r2davis2]

I thought someone said FIRST was gonna wait for the 25th anniversary to reuse games and twist them? I dunno if someone can back me up or knows where this originated from

[EricH]

Dave lavery's picture involves him standing next to a sign that says "boxcar". I wouldn't count that picture out as another clue for it being a train like game.Dave has had that picture about as long as I've been on this forum. If you look at my join date, you'll see that that means there is not a hint there.

[Robert Cawthon]

I guess I am trying to reverse engineer the clue. Would someone want to use the word "Eva" and then find her picture? I don't think so there are tons of 'Eva's out there if you just google the word. Or if they wanted to show columms would that be a pic easily found to display?

It seems to me working backwards if the name of the game has to do with "Loco Motion" then the song is an obvious choice for the clue and then the pic makes sense.

Do not underestimate Bill's deviousness. There is no reason to expect that the picture was chosen for only one dimension. The fact that it is old, AND has a column, AND has Little Eva on it AND that there are five buttons and is the cover for Loco-Motion must all be considered. He could have chosen it for any or all of the above. (Although the five button thing seems to me to be streching it a little far.)

[dag0620]

Still Skimming, but after breezing through and texting with teammates things I have so far....

I seem to keep feeling that this might have to do with Transportation(themed game). Now I know theres a lot left out to be discussed, and other theories. Thinking about some of Bill's pass blog posts, I could see this working.

One thing I haven't seen discussed to much, did anyone try to make a relation between the hint and the Red Herring Dave gave us a few weeks back?

[Teammax]

Do not underestimate Bill's deviousness. There is no reason to expect that the picture was chosen for only one dimension. The fact that it is old, AND has a column, AND has Little Eva on it AND that there are five buttons and is the cover for Loco-Motion must all be considered. He could have chosen it for any or all of the above. (Although the five button thing seems to me to be streching it a little far.)

Yeah I know but I have to start someone and make some assumptions :rolleyes:

[IndySam]

everyone is missing the obvious.....







Steam powered robots!

[Robert Cawthon]

Dave lavery's picture involves him standing next to a sign that says "boxcar". I wouldn't count that picture out as another clue for it being a train like game.

Dave has had that picture about as long as I've been on this forum. If you look at my join date, you'll see that that means there is not a hint there.

If the Lord High Vacuum of Time and Common Sense ever changes his picture, then it might be a red herring. Otherwise, that picture is as old as the hills!

EDIT: Uh, Dave. Don't change it on my account!

[Katie_UPS]

This is like when I play chess. I think 10 moves in advance, when really, three would be sufficient.

I like the EVA theory.

[Chris is me]

I still think the game is Stairs On A Train :rolleyes:

[dwodrich]

how about loading game pieces into an EVA positioned on a track. Bots then have to turn a crank to move the EVA to the goal and dump to score.

[Tom Ore]

They cropped it so her watch is cut in half - maybe half the match will be autonomous.

[dag0620]

Think it's weird I keep thinking about wiki leaks right now :rolleyes:

Another thing that came to my mind is the actual game piece. If FIRST stuck with tradition, we wouldn't have a ball this year (so how RH1 fits in with this theory I don't know). What if the game piece is a Column baton shape? Yes it would be close to the FTC game this year but you never know....

Back to more Brainstorming!!!!

EDIT: 200th Post!!!!

[jmanela]

Maybe, think about a locomotive, a train. There are cars connecting the train so maybe... the robots will somehow be connected? Not for the whole match, maybe just auto or something like that.

Do the Locomotion!

[maltz1881]

Personally though I loved Little Ea's version... I soooooooo wish they had used the guys that I grew up with Grand Funk!! I remember walking into my aunt's house and there sat Mark Farner getting his hair cut at her dining room table!!

Chug a chug a motion like a railroad train.. come on baby do the locomotion!!

[jujuninja]

Well in past year's they go off of some thing special thats happening that year. So what is going on this year? That tie with this hint.

[Rebecca Wasmer]

Okay, so, I have no life and I've been spending too much time on ther computer... here is what I have found (Probably irrelevant... but I like to research):

On December 21 in 1968 NASA sent Apollo 8 to the moon (First manned spacecraft to orbit the moon). According to the 2000 census there were 1,968 people living in the town where "Little Eva" grew up and is now buried. Not sure if there is a connection there... but seems kind of odd that those two numbers line up... especially with E.V.A standing for Extra Vehicular Activity, one of NASA's terms. EDIT: Today was also the winter solstice!

A man named Bill Lange who was a baseball player was nicknamed "Little Eva". He wasn't really good... but he played Baseball, which could possibly be a field element?

In Bill's Blog he mentioned someone bruising their ankle... I think this may mean that the bumper height has changed, but I don't do much mechanical stuff.

"Little Eva"'s full name is Eva Narcissus Boyd. Narcissus is a guy from Greek mythology who fell in love with his reflection. Maybe this has something to do with mirrors of some sort? The image is reflected and according to tiny eye does not exist anywhere in that orientation.

"Little Eva" was the singer of the song "Locomotion". Robot Locomotion is getting over some sort of rough terrain... bumps anyone? On Wikipedia (although I dislike the site very much) It says "However, coordinating a large number of robot joints for even simple matters, like negotiating stairs, is difficult." on the robot locomotion page. Maybe we're dealing with stairs, or actually carrying things.

I tried to find information about tennis balls or penn or four inches... and nothing really seems to be connecting the way I would like it to. So, nothing with that to report so far.

For now, this is all I have in a coherent fashion so that everyone can understand the way my brain is going. I know this is a lot... and some parts kind of repeating, but I am having way too much fun with this. (:

18 Days until we find out the truth! :D

[dag0620]

EDIT:
If it is - one of their hits was. "You keep me hangin' on."

Just a point to bring up about "You keep me hangin' on." We just did the whole hanging thing (sorta). Even if it was to take on a major role, would the GDC really do something that similar back to back?.....

[JaneYoung]

"Little Eva"'s full name is Eva Narcissus Boyd. Narcissus is a guy from Greek mythology who fell in love with his reflection. Maybe this has something to do with mirrors of some sort? The image is reflected and according to tiny eye does not exist anywhere in that orientation.


The mirror image that has been discussed a little in the thread. What does that mean, 'does not exist anywhere in that orientation'? Illusion? Alignment?

[SuperBK]

I'm guessing some one of the elements of the game is a train. Maybe the robots have to get off and on it. The mirror image may mean something too.
Brian

[Rebecca Wasmer]

The mirror image that has been discussed a little in the thread. What does that mean, 'does not exist anywhere in that orientation'? Illusion? Alignment?

As in, with her body on the right hand side of the picture.

[Travis Hoffman]

It'd be a neat game mechanic to have to shake something, but I'm not sure how you'd work it in.

Shake Weights are the game piece. The world is free to end now.

[jmanela]

I'm guessing some one of the elements of the game is a train. Maybe the robots have to get off and on it. The mirror image may mean something too.
Brian

Maybe instead of the robots going on the train, the you score the elements into a train that moves around a track navigating though the field.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

I'm somewhat regretting a hint now :p My life is non-existent for 18 days.. We definitely have a good set of ideas here.. good imput everyone!

[Travis Hoffman]

The robots have to dance?

I told you so:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=986261&postcount=192

[karomata]

i've found something interesting;
there is an american football club in russia named locomotive
could footballs be the game piece?
i have lots of other information and i think i've got it.
more to come
stay tuned;)

[Nashua131]

At the beginning of the thread, someone mentioned the photo looks like a yearbook photo, because of the ring. My guess is that the game is alumni of FIRST focused, or at least Dean will focus on FIRST alumni again. Possible the game will incorporate older elements of previous games?

[Team#2057-Vegas]

i've found something interesting;
there is an american football club in russia named locomotive
could footballs be the game piece?
i have lots of other information and i think i've got it.
more to come
stay tuned;)

that fits with the idea someone had in the "waiting patiently for the 2011" forum.. that the tennis ball said "PENN" on it for pennstate?

[pandamonium]

I am not a fan of the E.V.A theory but i will bite. The human players drive vehicles on a track suspended above the playing field...

[dag0620]

i've found something interesting;
there is an american football club in russia named locomotive
could footballs be the game piece?
i have lots of other information and i think i've got it.
more to come
stay tuned;)

I find that very interesting.....

We all have said in the past that football would be a good way to go, it's not a sphere, and it sticks with the whole making this a sport, and could be another spectator friendly sport..

[jmanela]

that fits with the idea someone had in the "waiting patiently for the 2011" forum.. that the tennis ball said "PENN" on it for pennstate?

I don't think we should speculate too much on the red herrings, due to the fact that the second was just a google image search of "red herring".

[chemipanda]

i don't know if this is helpful but if you go to the link in the picture its a robotics team from Mexico...just throwing that out there

[Team#2057-Vegas]

I don't think we should speculate too much on the red herrings, due to the fact that the second was just a google image search of "red herring".

good point: just throwing things out there ::safety::

[bhaidet]

When you Google Image search "Little Eva", the fourth result is the picture they probably used. It has text that they cropped out and this cropping explains the half-uncovered watch. (it does line up exactly i tried).
So the watch clue is pointless and they most probably just did a search for her, not a column AND her (that search does not turn up this picture on the first page at least)

And even if we only know the game name (if they would actually release it this way), that is a clue in itself. Imagine the conversations that would be taking place if the game hint was:
Game Name: Locomotion

Locomotion would have been an easy way to get TO a search for her. If you try "locomotion" on wikipedia, she is on there, but towards the bottom. If I were trying to make a clue for "Locomotion, I think this is just far enough away to work.


So, I would disregard the column and pay attention to the song name because it has something more to do with robots. I like the column-shaped game piece idea but I don't think they would have gotten to this picture if they intended that as the hint.

[Dustin Shadbolt]

i've found something interesting;
there is an american football club in russia named locomotive
could footballs be the game piece?
i have lots of other information and i think i've got it.
more to come
stay tuned;)

Nice find. That ties into the PENN thing about football from the other thread. And it would spectator friendly.

[iblis432]

EVA can also stand for Electronic Video Assistant. Couldn't it be possible that it has something to do with robot vision? they've been trying to get teams to do more with vision for awhile now, maybe we're required to do it in endgame or something. Or better yet, earlier people were mentioning a major game change before end game but after auto, maybe the screen darkens in front of the drivers and they have to use their vision code to see what's going on.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

EVA can also stand for Electronic Video Assistant. Couldn't it be possible that it has something to do with robot vision? they've been trying to get teams to do more with vision for awhile now, maybe we're required to do it in endgame or something. Or better yet, earlier people were mentioning a major game change before end game but after auto, maybe the screen darkens in front of the drivers and they have to use their vision code to see what's going on.

talk about intense game play and going out with a boom! it'd definitely give a few bonus points..

[musicgurl1329]

Going off of someone's idea of it has to do with the eclipse last night, one of Little Eva's hit songs was Swinging on a Star.

Swinging on a coloumn, swinging on a star... maybe a connection?

Also, a 2 story game field would be quite exciting. :)

[iblis432]

Going off of someone's idea of it has to do with the eclipse last night, one of Little Eva's hit songs was Swinging on a Star.

Swinging on a coloumn, swinging on a star... maybe a connection?

Also, a 2 story game field would be quite exciting. :)

And ridiculous to build a practice field for, FRC is hard enough to build practice fields for, much less a 2 story setup

[jmanela]

And ridiculous to build a practice field for, FRC is hard enough to build practice fields for, much less a 2 story setup

Maybe just part of the field has a second story. For example, to score some "super ball" you might have to climb up a ramp or something to a second story goal.

[musicgurl1329]

You never know A train track (locomotion idea) or some form of track could be the 2nd floor of the field.

The columns are the most plausible thing if this is a game piece hint or an important part of the field.

Maybe her name has to do with the game or is relevant to a central idea or set up of the game?

[roboticsrunner1]

Going off the "Loco-motion" idea, in the same year that song was released (1962) New York City use the first automatic subway train. Could that mean fully autonomous game or is this info have nothing to do with the game. We just have to wait and see!

[jujuninja]

Two level might work... it could mean the underground rail road??

[Zach O]

Someplace always good to look is important events this year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011). For the past few years they've taken things that have to do with events going on in the year and based their games off of it.

Also, Haagen Daz, Diet Coke, and Crackerjacks anyone?

[musicgurl1329]

Someplace always good to look is important events this year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011). For the past few years they've taken things that have to do with events going on in the year and based their games off of it.

Also, Haagen Daz, Diet Coke, and Crackerjacks anyone?

Rugby world cup?

[Eric24]

Little EVA - Locomotion - walking robots

from Wikipedia

Robot locomotion is the study of how to design robot appendages and control mechanisms to allow robots to move fluidly and efficiently. Although wheeled robots are typically quite energy efficient and simple to control, other forms of locomotion may be more appropriate for a number of reasons (e.g. traversing rough terrain, moving and interacting in human environments). Furthermore, studying biped and insect-like robots may impact biomechanics.

I like this theory because it would totally level the playing field with a completely new drive train concept. Its also very interesting that AndyMark will now offer pneumatic muscles as part of the FIRST choice program. Making walking robots is a very difficult and complicated task, but I wouldn't put it past the GDC.

[JaneYoung]

Making walking robots is a very difficult and complicated task, but I wouldn't put it past the GDC.

You have to ask yourself if it is worth the risk of failure. What would be the advantage of that, esp. with the amount of rookie teams that have registered this year? The GDC looks at everything from as many angles and perspectives as they can - and they weigh in factors that only their masterminds can weigh in on. If it is felt that the time has come for walking robots or something along that line, then the risk question has been answered, hasn't it?

Jane

P.S. It may seem that I am contradicting myself regarding never underestimating a rookie. I don't and I also don't underestimate veteran teams experiencing a brand spanking new concept in FRC but... again, I would weigh the risks.

[pandamonium]

some people have complained that the robots are too much like big rc cars. This would totally fix that.

great catch on those AndyMark muscles. There is sooooo much evidence pointing at walking robots...

[Robert Cawthon]

Making walking robots is a very difficult and complicated task, but I wouldn't put it past the GDC.

It could be that some of the tasks can be done with a wheeled robot while the most difficult task is done best with another mode of locamotion. (Not Loco-Motion.)

[Team#2057-Vegas]

Rugby world cup?

that goes with the football idea again (: the balls are more round too!

hmm.. there is also a hockey championship too..

[DSM33]

i just wikipedia'd locomotion and one of the things that came up was "Robot Locomotion"
here's the quote from Wikipedia...

Robot locomotion is the study of how to design robot appendages and control mechanisms to allow robots to move fluidly and efficiently. Although wheeled robots are typically quite energy efficient and simple to control, other forms of locomotion may be more appropriate for a number of reasons (e.g. traversing rough terrain, moving and interacting in human environments). Furthermore, studying biped and insect-like robots may impact biomechanics.

A major goal in this field is in developing capabilities for robots to autonomously decide how, when, and where to move. However, coordinating a large number of robot joints for even simple matters, like negotiating stairs, is difficult. Autonomous robot locomotion is a major technological obstacle for many areas of robotics, such as humanoids (like Honda's Asimo).

looks like we might have to build some arms and legs
and if we have arms and legs you know what that means...
ROBOT BOXING :P

EDIT: nevermind someone beat me to it

[Thing2_1723]

If this hint has anything to do with mirrors, what if the field was divided in half by a giant, robust mirror to where the drivers could only see what their alliance is doing. Non-contact game...?

But then if there is, it may be confusing for the drivers who are use to seeing a full field.

[JohnBoucher]

They cropped it so her watch is cut in half - maybe half the match will be autonomous.

Or the second half :ahh:

[Hadar]

I saw many of you have reminded the "train issue"
how about teams will have to work to work together in the "train method" just like in relay races, having to move a game piece from a robot to a robot?
maybe each robot in the alliance will stand on a different stair i.e on different heights?::rtm::

[Robert Cawthon]

If this hint has anything to do with mirrors, what if the field was divided in half by a giant, robust mirror to where the drivers could only see what their alliance is doing. Non-contact game...?

But then if there is, it may be confusing for the drivers who are use to seeing a full field.

The way I have seen some of the drivers drive (myself incuded), the mirror wouldn't last long. By the way, soccer is supposed to be a non-contact sport, but my kids have been the hospital with various contusions and such more times than I like to remember. Non-contact is a relative thing.

[Tom Ore]

The image is reversed - maybe autonomous in the second half. The first half would be setting yourself up for autonomous mode.

[Tyler Hicks]

Locomotion reminds us all of trains, and so it's probably related to the game somehow. However, FIRST does a great job of making these clues very vaguely attached to the game.

Example:
In 2009, the Moon fish related to the moon, which relates to Lunacy. Even if they said "MOON GAME", there is no way that we could get the Lunacy game from that.

Until we have the lurking variable, or 'lurking clue', have fun guessing :p

[IndySam]

There was no baseball in Triple Play. There will be no trains involved in this game.

[Robert Cawthon]

I wonder if any of us has even come close? We have spread a fairly wide net over some of the possabilities, I just wonder how close we were. Back in 2009, one person guessed that the Zamboni facotory near one of the LAT/LONG clues meant that we would be playing on ice. He was close, but who would have believed it?