2011 FRC Game Hint #2

[dag0620]

This is my first year in FRC, so I wasn't in 2009's competition. If what you say is true, that makes me feels a lot better!

I wasn't around for that either (well I went to a couple competitions to watch, wasn't on the team).

However teams were given a diagram on how to make a standardized Trailer Hitch on the Back of their robots which was used to connect the bots to the scoring Trailers (which came with the field at events.

So I would be shocked if FIRST didn't standardize that ahead of time if it was to happen.

[TheoBlacksmith]

Bars are very tricky, ya know

[Andrew Lawrence]

Bars are very tricky, ya know

not if they're done right and have a good team to maneuver the robot!

[TheoBlacksmith]

I was being sarcastic ..... -_-

[SteveGPage]

It was suggested in 2007.

Once people figured out about ramps, though, nobody went for it.

Same in 2010, but it didn't become universal.

I agree, and would expect the GDC to also have seen that - that's why my comment wasn't based on connecting physically like in previous years, but to "connect" operationally or strategically by function. Three separate design types and three separate functions that you can choose from. It would make for a very different way of playing the qualification rounds, since the chances of seeing the correct pairing would rarely happen for both alliances, but the elimination rounds would be something else!

BTW, congratulations on your 10,000th post Eric! I've enjoyed reading what you have to say!

Steve

[Andrew Lawrence]

I was being sarcastic ..... -_-

Oh. Sorry. I'm a literalist.

[Mike Schreiber]

Since the beginnings of civilisation man has had a fascination for a human-like creation that would assist him. Societies in the early part of the first millennium engaged in slavery and used those slaves to perform the tasks which were either dirty or menial labours. Having slaves freed the enslavers to carry on their society and concentrate on what they perceived as more important tasks such as business and politics. Man had discovered mechanics and the means of creating complex mechanisms which would perform repetitive functions such as waterwheels and pumps. Technological advances were slow but there were more complex machines, generally limited to a very small number, which performed more grandiose functions such as those invented by Hero of Alexandria.
In the first half of the second millennium man began to develop more complex machines as well as rediscovering the Greek engineering methods. Men such as Leonardo Da Vinci in 1495 through to Jacques de Vaucanson in 1739 have made plans for, and built, automata and robots leading to books of designs such as the Japanese Karakuri zui (Illustrated Machinery) in 1796. As mechanical techniques developed through the Industrial age we find more practical applications such as Nikola Tesla in 1898 who designed a radio-controlled torpedo and the Westinghouse Electric Corporation creation Televox in 1926. From here we find a more android development as designers tried to mimic more human-like features including designs such as those of biologist Makoto Nishimura in 1929 and his creation Gakutensoku, which cried and changed its facial expressions, and the more crude Elektro from Westinghouse in 1938.
Electronics now became the driving force of development instead of mechanics with the advent of the first electronic autonomous robots created by William Grey Walter in Bristol, England in 1948. The first digital and programmable robot was invented by George Devol in 1954 and was ultimately called the Unimate. Devol sold the first Unimate to General Motors in 1960 where it was used to lift pieces of hot metal from die casting machines in a plant in Trenton, New Jersey.
Since then we have seen robots finally reach a more true assimilation of all technologies to produce robots such as ASIMO which can walk and move like a human. Robots have replaced slaves in the assistance of performing those repetitive and dangerous tasks which humans prefer not to do or unable to do due to size limitations or even those such as in outer space or at the bottom of the sea where humans could not survive the extreme environments.
Robots come in those two basic forms: Those which are used to make or move things, such as Industrial robots or mobile or servicing robots and those which are used for research into human-like robots such as ASIMO and TOPIO as well as those into more defined and specific roles such as Nano robots and Swarm robots.
Man has developed a fear of the autonomous robot and how it may react in society, such as Shelley's Frankenstein and the EATR, and yet we still use robots in a wide variety of tasks such as vacuuming floors, mowing lawns, cleaning drains, investigating other planets, building cars, entertainment and in warfare.

Word for word from the geniuses at Wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot)

[buildmaster5000]

Going on the train idea...

If the endgame bonus is to couple all the robots together in a train (ramps are not allowed) and before that, we are doing something that has a fairly high speed. Overdrive with some other stuff is roughly the idea.

[TheoBlacksmith]

well at least i can count to 20. take That!

[Andrew Lawrence]

Going on the train idea...

If the endgame bonus is to couple all the robots together in a train (ramps are not allowed) and before that, we are doing something that has a fairly high speed. Overdrive with some other stuff is roughly the idea.

Well it is supposably a mix of different games!

[TheoBlacksmith]

Well it is supposably a mix of different games!

Going on the train idea...

If the endgame bonus is to couple all the robots together in a train (ramps are not allowed) and before that, we are doing something that has a fairly high speed. Overdrive with some other stuff is roughly the idea.


I defenitly agree with the train idea. but i think it will be more than an endgame bonus points

[Andrew Lawrence]

I defenitly agree with the train idea. but i think it will be more than an endgame bonus points

I just don't want the robots connected as a train. That takes away the possibility of tank-drive!

[iblis432]

They could leave it to the teams to figure out--innovate in.

Hmm, if this was the case on the idea of connecting robots together like a train, wouldn't the logical conclusion for most teams be to build a train hitch (the piece connecting the cars that look almost like a hand shake, to me anyway) and then get as many other teams as possible to consider the idea?

[TheoBlacksmith]

I just don't want the robots connected as a train. That takes away the possibility of tank-drive!

i donot think that the robots will be linked together. mainly because if one robot has a disfunctional linker then the whole alliance is comprimised. also i think that it will be like pulling and pushing "cargo loaded" train cars around on tracks.

[TheoBlacksmith]

Just came up with this qoute now!

[Andrew Lawrence]

i donot think that the robots will be linked together. mainly because if one robot has a disfunctional linker then the whole alliance is comprimised. also i think that it will be like pulling and pushing "cargo loaded" train cars around on tracks.

That's reassuring! Our team relies on tank-drive!

[iblis432]

say... back to the idea of taking things away, couldn't it be that the thing taken away is individuality? Before, it was suggested that you work with your alliance partner, but not really required, it was possible to win when your partner did not show up. But what if that was taken away? What if it was a train, on a track, the leader would be chosen at random, and the others have mechanisms that do the rest of the game. Such as activate turntables and such, or maybe have like ball cannons to fire into a center goal. The idea is, all three teams (or two) on an alliance have to work in perfect unison, or else it's all lost. In the case a robot does not come to the field, a blank board with the specificed track wheels is put in its place, and a different leader is chosen.

Don't imagine what I'm saying to be exact, I'm saying something similar could happen

[TheoBlacksmith]

of course we could be completly wrong and this has nothing to do with trains

[Andrew Lawrence]

say... back to the idea of taking things away, couldn't it be that the thing taken away is individuality? Before, it was suggested that you work with your alliance partner, but not really required, it was possible to win when your partner did not show up. But what if that was taken away? What if it was a train, on a track, the leader would be chosen at random, and the others have mechanisms that do the rest of the game. Such as activate turntables and such, or maybe have like ball cannons to fire into a center goal. The idea is, all three teams (or two) on an alliance have to work in perfect unison, or else it's all lost. In the case a robot does not come to the field, a blank board with the specificed track wheels is put in its place, and a different leader is chosen.

Don't imagine what I'm saying to be exact, I'm saying something similar could happen

That would be interesting, but extremely hard, and there would be no way to go against another team, because you'd have to be on separate tracks, othwise you'd collide.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Some friends and I were talking over the game hints and we came up with the following idea: we think that hint one has been over-interpreted. The only commonality between the pictures is a link to a white, round object (the triangles to the circle in the FRC Logo/Little Eva to the pillar).

Our hypothesis is that each team will be linked to one immovable, white, round object in a zone of the field, one red robot and one blue robot per object.

Remember that in the past FRC has been trying to make it a good idea to have robots that don't try to do everything at once. By placing a physical limitation on where a robot can go, they would be strongly encouraging teams to specialize in one particular area on the field.

[TheoBlacksmith]

say... back to the idea of taking things away, couldn't it be that the thing taken away is individuality? Before, it was suggested that you work with your alliance partner, but not really required, it was possible to win when your partner did not show up. But what if that was taken away? What if it was a train, on a track, the leader would be chosen at random, and the others have mechanisms that do the rest of the game. Such as activate turntables and such, or maybe have like ball cannons to fire into a center goal. The idea is, all three teams (or two) on an alliance have to work in perfect unison, or else it's all lost. In the case a robot does not come to the field, a blank board with the specificed track wheels is put in its place, and a different leader is chosen.

Don't imagine what I'm saying to be exact, I'm saying something similar could happen

something to ponder apon

[TheoBlacksmith]

is it just me or is this starting to get REAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL confusing

[Andrew Lawrence]

Some friends and I were talking over the game hints and we came up with the following idea: we think that hint one has been over-interpreted. The only commonality between the pictures is a link to a white, round object (the triangles to the circle in the FRC Logo/Little Eva to the pillar).

Our hypothesis is that each team will be linked to one immovable, white, round object in a zone of the field, one red robot and one blue robot per object.

Remember that in the past FRC has been trying to make it a good idea to have robots that don't try to do everything at once. By placing a physical limitation on where a robot can go, they would be strongly encouraging teams to specialize in one particular area on the field.

Yes, but then you'd be stuck if you were in an alliance where you all specialized in the same thing. I don't think FIRST would want that.

[iblis432]

That would be interesting, but extremely hard, and there would be no way to go against another team, because you'd have to be on separate tracks, othwise you'd collide.

That's why you gotta build a cow catcher, although it'd be more like a robot catcher. 25 points if you derail your opponent.

Idk, you could still challenge the other alliance. Maybe the tracks are side by side, you could block for defense. Compete to grab the same items. Idk

[Andrew Lawrence]

is it just me or is this starting to get REAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL confusing

Well it depends on what you are doing in this conversation. If you are making ideas, then you're almost out of luck, because we already have a pretty good idea of what's going on. I'm just looking at the ideas of game aspects that people post and look at the logistics of them. If it is unlikely to occur, then I say so, eliminating anything that could throw us offtrack!

[TheoBlacksmith]

ha! u used a pun " of track" anyway i think we defenitly agree that this will have something to do with trains. the details are just all up for grabs. theres no way to verify them till saturday

[EricH]

It is unlikely that any team will successfully guess the hint. (It's happened, on occasion, but nothing useful came out of it at the time.)

It is unlikely that any team will redirect balls from the ball return into their own goals. This is partially due to that being last year's game, but even then people said it was unlikely.

[Andrew Lawrence]

ha! u used a pun " of track" anyway i think we defenitly agree that this will have something to do with trains. the details are just all up for grabs. theres no way to verify them till saturday

Now that we are 99% sue that it involves trains, we need to either find out what the trains can/will do, and if there are actual trains, or what the second hint means!

[TheoBlacksmith]

i guess the only good that can come from bickering is that someperson here will have bragging rights when the game is realeased. and be able to say I TOLD YOU SO lol

[Andrew Lawrence]

i guess the only good that can come from bickering is that someperson here will have bragging rights when the game is realeased. and be able to say I TOLD YOU SO lol

But we can also get a good idea of the game and tell our team about it!

[iblis432]

Trains, steam engine. I got it...

It's a water game. The person who converts the most water into steam wins. I is smart.:p

[dag0620]

Alright well I feel we hit that the thread hit redunacy (a little bit ago actually but I was waiting for something to happen).

See you all on the big hint in 3 days!

[Andrew Lawrence]

Alright well I feel we hit that the thread hit redunacy (a little bit ago actually but I was waiting for something to happen).

See you all on the big hint in 3 days!

what do you mean? This is the best part yet!

[TheoBlacksmith]

Trains, steam engine. I got it...

It's a water game. The person who converts the most water into steam wins. I is smart.:p
you is smart!

Alright well I feel we hit that the thread hit redunacy (a little bit ago actually but I was waiting for something to happen).
See you all on the big hint in 3 days!

i agree but i have nothing better to do at this time


what do you mean? This is the best part yet!
.......

[iblis432]

same here, got nothing to do for the night, although I think its safe to say that the next hint will be "All your FIRST game are belong to us." We're going back to the old poetic quotes. XD

Do you think the low color index has anything to do with this second hint? There are only 4 color values in the whole picture. No slightly different colors to make shadow tints or anything.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Yes, but then you'd be stuck if you were in an alliance where you all specialized in the same thing. I don't think FIRST would want that.

So you mean like last year, when alliances were stuck if they had three frontfield bots?

Anyways, just like last year, you'd be operating at 1/3 efficiency. And it wouldn't happen in elimination if teams chose wisely. Probably the tasks would be similar enough that robots could reasonably do all three, but in order to excel at one they'd have to sacrifice efficiency on the other two.

[iblis432]

What if we're thinking to broad? what if its a hint to a piece in the Kit of Parts? I feel like they did that in a year past, can't remember though.

Anyway, what type of new part could be related to either of the hints?

[Andrew Lawrence]

So you mean like last year, when alliances were stuck if they had three frontfield bots?

Anyways, just like last year, you'd be operating at 1/3 efficiency. And it wouldn't happen in elimination if teams chose wisely. Probably the tasks would be similar enough that robots could reasonably do all three, but in order to excel at one they'd have to sacrifice efficiency on the other two.

But you forget. If you were tethered to a spot where you couldn't do anything, you'd be hopeless. If you were placed in a field last year that you didn't make your robot for, you could still succeed because you could push/kick the ball from wherever. Plus, you could travel over or through the tunnel to get to the side you needed. And if all else failed, you could ask your alliance members to let you go in the zone you wanted, unlike the "random" choosing of being tethered.

[EricH]

What if we're thinking to broad? what if its a hint to a piece in the Kit of Parts? I feel like they did that in a year past, can't remember though.
2008, Game Hint 1 was an IR sensor sent to the teams. 2006, the game hint's original shape was sort of roundish like a ball.

In other years, it's been either vague or roundabout if it hit the KOP at all.

[IndySam]

Now that we are 99% sue that it involves trains, we need to either find out what the trains can/will do, and if there are actual trains, or what the second hint means!

It won't involve trains.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

But you forget. If you were tethered to a spot where you couldn't do anything, you'd be hopeless. If you were placed in a field last year that you didn't make your robot for, you could still succeed because you could push/kick the ball from wherever. Plus, you could travel over or through the tunnel to get to the side you needed. And if all else failed, you could ask your alliance members to let you go in the zone you wanted, unlike the "random" choosing of being tethered.

I never said teams would be randomly assigned to a tether point, or that any part of the game field would be randomized. Remember, the GDC tries to encourage specialized designs that work together.

[Andrew Lawrence]

It won't involve trains.

I don't necessarily mean there will be actual trains, but an aspect related to them.

[BrendanB]

Now that we are 99% sue that it involves trains, we need to either find out what the trains can/will do, and if there are actual trains, or what the second hint means!

Locomotion was Little Eva's greatest hit, the logo is the 20th anniversary logo. Greatest hits from 20 years of FRC in one game!

[Andrew Lawrence]

I never said teams would be randomly assigned to a tether point, or that any part of the game field would be randomized. Remember, the GDC tries to encourage specialized designs that work together.

Then if you badly needed to be tethered to a spot you tell your team, and if they can work better than you in that position, then try your best somewhere else, and hope for the best. That's why you always need a backup plan. If you can't play on the spot you do best at, be sure you can at least compete somewhere else at least somewhat well.

[iblis432]

Locomotion was Little Eva's greatest hit, the logo is the 20th anniversary logo. Greatest hits from 20 years of FRC in one game!

Already covered earlier in the thread... multiple times. Besides, that really tells nothing of the game, only explains what has already be said, that it celebrates 20 years of FRC

[Andrew Lawrence]

Already covered earlier in the thread... multiple times. Besides, that really tells nothing of the game, only explains what has already be said, that it celebrates 20 years of FRC

Though this has been mentioned countless times before,
It could mean that this game takes the best of the last 20 year's games, and puts them into one super-game.

[BrendanB]

Already covered earlier in the thread... multiple times. Besides, that really tells nothing of the game, only explains what has already be said, that it celebrates 20 years of FRC

I know, I have read through every post in this thread and the 1st one. That is why I am certain that it has anything to do with locomotives after an afternoon of thought. You have to look at what I was replying too.

[Karibou]

2. the FRC logo simply tells us that this is going to be a FRC competiiton
.

I just want to clarify, since I'm sure that someone else will make the same mistake somewhere along the line.

The triangle, circle, and square are not the FRC logo. Those shapes are also used in the FIRST, FLL, and FTC logos. What differentiates the different images is the text that appears underneath the shapes - which was left out of the hint.

That being said, we don't know exactly which logo this image is supposed to imply. It could mean that we will be utilizing elements from FLL and FTC, for all we know.

[Robert Cawthon]

It won't involve trains.

I agree. I think. Maybe.

[Andrew Lawrence]

I just want to clarify, since I'm sure that someone else will make the same mistake somewhere along the line.

The triangle, circle, and square are not the FRC logo. Those shapes are also used in the FIRST, FLL, and FTC logos. What differentiates the different images is the text that appears underneath the shapes - which was left out of the hint.

That being said, we don't know exactly which logo this image is supposed to imply. It could mean that we will be utilizing elements from FLL and FTC, for all we know.

That's new! It could be a FRC'd version of a previous FLL or FTC competition!

[Andrew Lawrence]

I agree. I think. Maybe.

Well, we know it either has trains or It is a mix of past competitions. I'm leaning toward the latter of the two, but I must admit, I'm still undecided.

[293spike]

I feel as though we are all missing a bluntly obvious hint. What's missing from the logo? FIRST. Instead of recognizing it as an acronym however simply take it as a word. What happens first in the game? Autonomous. No autonomous this year.

[keehun]

Nothing shows up on meta-data.

Have we tried to see if this image contains any other extra data? (Other than visual literal image). Like an embedded file or message?

[demosthenes2k8]

keehun: It's not a .zip, .rar, or .7z. There's no alpha in it (or if there is, I messed up)

I don't think they're removing Autonomous. It would be too big a change.

[Sarah2729]

I feel as though we are all missing a bluntly obvious hint. What's missing from the logo? FIRST. Instead of recognizing it as an acronym however simply take it as a word. What happens first in the game? Autonomous. No autonomous this year.

I like this idea! It's something we probably wouldn't expect but fits with the logo clue!

So my guess is something with trains and/or linking without autonomous mode! :)

[bassoondude]

I'm thinking it has something to do with gamepieces that link together in some way, and they have to be scored into a moving goal

[Creator Mat]

Our hypothesis is that each team will be linked to one immovable, white, round object in a zone of the field, one red robot and one blue robot per object.

Just remember what they say about a immovable object that meets a unstoppable force...

An excellent (and kind of funny) example was team 117 last year. Part of their strategy was to wedge themselves into the tunnel so they couldn't be moved. However, I know there was discussion of how the field was moved as a consequence of teams trying to dislodge them. Just goes to show how there is never a truly immovable object

[kornjones]

Locomotion was Little Eva's greatest hit, the logo is the 20th anniversary logo. Greatest hits from 20 years of FRC in one game!

I've been hoping for this all year. :D

[rutzman]

Just remember what they say about a immovable object that meets a unstoppable force...

An excellent (and kind of funny) example was team 117 last year. Part of their strategy was to wedge themselves into the tunnel so they couldn't be moved. However, I know there was discussion of how the field was moved as a consequence of teams trying to dislodge them. Just goes to show how there is never a truly immovable object

Hmmm.....I don't remember that being one of 117's abilities, but I could be wrong.....I do remember hearing a similar story about 469, however...

[Dustin Shadbolt]

Hmmm.....I don't remember that being one of 117's abilities, but I could be wrong.....I do remember hearing a similar story about 469, however...

Yeah I remember 469 continued to get rammed in hopes they would move out from under the tunnel.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Yeah I remember 469 continued to get rammed in hopes they would move out from under the tunnel.

Well let's hope that no-one can block the path this year.

[MattC9]

Alright this was previously metioned 3 alliances of 2 robots Red, white, and blue and the each have to manipulate a shape, cone,sphere,clinder and we have to make a maniplulator that has too be able to grab all 3!!!!!

[Creator Mat]

Hmmm.....I don't remember that being one of 117's abilities, but I could be wrong.....I do remember hearing a similar story about 469, however...

woops got the wrong team number... My bad

[Andrew Lawrence]

Alright this was previously metioned 3 alliances of 2 robots Red, white, and blue and the each have to manipulate a shape, cone,sphere,clinder and we have to make a maniplulator that has too be able to grab all 3!!!!!

I don't think so. You usually have to compete in FRC to get points, not create a shape.

[Joe Schornak]

Alright, excessively detailed hint and game analysis time! Before we launch into wild speculation, I feel that we should take a look at the factors that have historically determined past game elements.

FRC Game Morphology
By Joe Schornak

I believe that one of the most important factors of pre-Kickoff game prediction is analysis of previous games and previous years. FIRST has quite a bit of infrastructure set out already, and will likely try to keep as much of that the same as possible. For example:

-The Field. There are already a number of existing competition quality field kits in existence, and FIRST will probably not heavily modify them due to cost and labor. This field must also be able to fit a variety of venues, from sports stadiums to high-school gyms. Thus, factors like field size and shape, robot count, alliance number, and field surface will be dependent on the existing field.

-The Kitbot. The game must be playable by the most basic of robots. This has been a feature of past games; robots could herd trackballs and run laps in Overdrive, avoid opponents and push balls to the return slots in Lunacy, and play defense and score goals in Breakaway. While some game elements will be more complicated, to encourage robot variety and challenge veteran teams, the game must be fundamentally simple.

-The Matching System. FIRST's current team ranking and matchmaking system is designed for use in the two-alliance system. While I am not particularly well-versed in such things, I suspect that it would take quite a bit of work to develop and troubleshoot a three-alliance program. A one-alliance program could be possible, or simpler, but I consider a one-alliance game unlikely, for reasons I will detail later.

FIRST will also attempt to keep the field as technologically simple as possible, due to the difficulties that arise with more complex systems. All field elements will be gravity-fed or human-operated, and will be no more complex than the Breakaway ball return track sensor, which often led to technical difficulties despite its relative small size and narrow field of effect. The elements must also be sturdy enough to be bashed by robots for weeks on end, since they are re-used for each regional event.

Since it is well-known that the GDC develops the game using humans in place of robots, the game must be playable (at least basically) by students with minimal equipment. The game elements must also be simple and made of easily acquirable materials, so that teams can construct mock-ups for practice.

The game must also be exciting and easy for non-nerd onlookers to comprehend. Overdrive and Breakaway are good examples of this; the object of the game is evident, and the action is easy to follow. This ties into FIRST's goal of making the competition more accessible to a wider audience. This requirement makes very technical games unlikely. Additionally, since competitive games are more exciting and understandable to an audience, a single-alliance, non-competitive game is unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.

The game must also accommodate rookie teams with little to no previous experience. This ties into the kitbot factor above, but it also involves a skill and resource component. Teams that have yet to establish a strong mentor and industry base could find it more difficult than other teams to construct a large, complex robot or manipulator. The game must also not be entirely sensor-based; despite working on the problem constantly since last season, my team has yet to fully solve all the issues behind our camera, gyroscope, and accelerometer, only managing to achieve a fully-autonomous kick and goal last week. While there may be a reward for sensor use, the game must fundamentally be playable without any sensors.

Summing up:
This year's game will be played on a predominately flat field, to accommodate teams using kit-provided frames and wheels. There may be raised elements, but it will not be necessary to interact with them to contribute to the game. It will almost certainly be beneficial to do so, but the game will not hinge on them. The field will use the current basic setup, with alliance stations on either end of the field. The game will feature two alliances in tense head-to-head competition. The game object will either be easy to build or purchase (provided that Walmart doesn't run out this time), or it will come with the kit. It will be large enough to see from the other end of a gymnasium, and will be a color contrasting the primary field color. Bumpers will be required, although the game will not necessarily be contact-focused.


Now for some hint analysis...

Knowing previous game hint patterns, the "answer" to the hint(s) was likely discovered within the first eight pages of the hint thread. Thus, the first hint's primary answer is Locomotion. This has a number of possible interpretations. "Locomotion" would be an excellent game name. In fact, I believe that this is the true answer to the hint. It would be just like the GDC to reveal the game's name in a hint, knowing that the FIRST community would immediately discard such an audacious move as impossible. Unfortunately, little about the game itself can be drawn from the game's name. We must dig further!

I find it significant that the name of one of Little Eva's record labels was Dimension Records. This is a very "sciency" term, and just the sort of thing that the GDC would pick up on. Dimension can refer to a number of mathematical concepts, from multiple dimensions and their relation to location and time, to the volume of an object in space. While a fourth-dimensional game would certainly be interesting, I find more meaning in the latter, since all past FRC games have dealt with three-dimensional objects on a plane.

While intriguing by themselves, these factors become infinitely more intriguing when taken in the context of the second hint. Tetraman's discovery about the relation of the volume of the cylinder to that of the sphere and the cone is very significant, since it ties into something that FIRST has evidently used in the past. And behold! A cylinder is present in the original photograph! Despite these clear connections, I have no idea what these relations mean.

What about the symbology of the FIRST logo? The logo consists of three different parts, inseparably linked together. While different in shape and color, they remain unified by their common linkages. This is representative of the three-alliance system; three different robots and teams united together for a common goal! It also represents FIRST’s philosophy of coopertition; although they are different and perhaps at odds with each other, the shapes still work together and remain connected.

As always, the information provided in the game hints is far too limited to determine the game, or really anything relating to the game beyond its name and theme. However, I feel that with careful analysis of FIRST’s patterns in designing the game, the possibilities can be narrowed down to a range of potential games. While FIRST could release a third hint that will tie all this together, it is more likely that a certain Mr. Lavery will appear to sow mayhem.

Oh. He already did. Hm.

Best of luck in the coming season!

[Thing2_1723]

I like the Idea of combining FTC and FLL, however, some schools have FRC teams and FTC teams and some students have participated in FLL too. For those people that haven't, it would possibly be an unfair advantage.

At our meeting today, our team saw the hint and one of our advisers immediately thought of linking together (like previously mentioned several times), but he thought it could be for bonus points at the very end of the match. It may be too easy though.

But, don't count on anything I say to be remotely close to reality. :D

[Creator Mat]

Some people mentioned how FIRST was trying to hide the origins of the game hints by editing them slightly

Game hint #1: The GDC did do a good job of hiding the true origins of the pic. It took the FRC community ~ 2 hours to figure it out. Which is pretty impressive considering the technical know how and obsessiveness of some (most... ok all) of the posters on Chief Delphi.

Game hint #2: On the other hand, I really hope no one was confused about this hint. It is the FIRST logo for crying out loud, so what if they deleted the words. The GDC should have had no dreams about disguising this hint. This is a FIRST game hint for a FIRST event that used the FIRST symbol. I think they should have thought that we would make the connection to FIRST.

[Dkt01]

Vision targets with the FIRST logo. Maybe only the logo? We'll see in T-4 days.

[bigblockchevy]

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18713

A low resolution picture of the FIRST logo.
There was a post on the game hint 1 thread about the dimensions of the picture (the Comic Sans post :P)

Hmmmm :confused:
what if the game involes conecting and transporting all the first pices like making your own train:confused:

[Andrew Lawrence]

Vision targets with the FIRST logo. Maybe only the logo? We'll see in T-4 days.

We've never used vision tracking before! If you can vision track this year, we will defenatly try!

[Andrew Lawrence]

what if the game involes conecting and transporting all the first pices like making your own train:confused:

I just had the worst thought ever. I imagined the field with a bunch of blocks, each with part of the logo on it, and you had to arrange them by pushing/pulling the blocks so that you create the FIRST logo. Similar to a puzzle in the forrest temple in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (best game ever!!)

[davidthefat]

We've never used vision tracking before! If you can vision track this year, we will defenatly try!

You will be surprised how much work WPI did for the programmers. If you look through the library, it has everything from edge detection to object recognition. You just have to call the functions:eek:

[bigblockchevy]

I just had the worst thought ever. I imagined the field with a bunch of blocks, each with part of the logo on it, and you had to arrange them by pushing/pulling the blocks so that you create the FIRST logo. Similar to a puzzle in the forrest temple in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (best game ever!!)

that would be interesting and hard:ahh:

[iblis432]

We've never used vision tracking before! If you can vision track this year, we will defenatly try!

Last year we had the ability to track and aim at the target, it was a slightly edited version of the one seen in the default LABview template, I don't think we ever used it though. During Lunacy, we did eventually get working tracking of the trailers, but we scrapped the camera in the final robot design.

[team388girl]

My thoughts on the hint are:
--all three shapes will be used
or
--there will be connecting trains like the shapes overlap each other.

[rabridges]

Vision targets with the FIRST logo. Maybe only the logo? We'll see in T-4 days.

You be right, the same thing was done in 2007 or Rack n Roll. One of the
diamonds plat with a 5 on was the hint.

[taichichuan]

1) Little Eva did Locomotion.
2) OK, so the logo looks like a train.

Possible hint #3?
And, the picture that Dave Lavery was in was taken at the "Boxcar Willie Memorial Overpass" on I35. OK, I think the operative part of this is the "Overpass". When coupled with the boxcar aspect, it sounds like trains of linked things and we have to go over an overpass.

As another thought, Boxcar Willie died in 1999. Maybe some aspect of the 1999 game ("Double Trouble?") coming back? In that game, we had to lift the game pieces up (maybe to an overpass?) and we got more points the higher they got. Maybe we have to distinguish different shaped game pieces and lift them to different levels to get different points?

Just more grist for the mill...

Mike

[rabridges]

Vision targets with the FIRST logo. Maybe only the logo? We'll see in T-4 days.

I just had the worst thought ever. I imagined the field with a bunch of blocks, each with part of the logo on it, and you had to arrange them by pushing/pulling the blocks so that you create the FIRST logo. Similar to a puzzle in the forrest temple in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (best game ever!!)



I was think the same thing earlier, but of a 3D logo. Stacking blocks to make the logo.

[Karibou]

And, the picture that Dave Lavery was in was taken at the "Boxcar Willie Memorial Overpass" on I35.

I hate to ruin the fun, but Dave has had that picture as his WAI for years. It means nothing in regards to the hints and game.

[bigblockchevy]

My thoughts on the hint are:
--all three shapes will be used
or
--there will be connecting trains like the shapes overlap each other.

what if when you connect the tran pices you have to do it in order so the first alliance to have three logos wins:confused:

[alectronic]

Here are the two hints again, just for reference sake. It does seem a bit odd that one is labeled "FRC 2011 Game Hint 1.jpg" while the other is simply "logo.jpg"
Hum. 4 days.

[jyh947]

FIRST hid a lot of metadata in the second hint in comparison to the first hint:

First hint:
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?b=3&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usfirst.org%2FuploadedIma ges%2FRobotics_Programs%2FFRC%2FGame_and_Season__I nfo%2F2011_Assets%2FFRC%25202011%2520Game%2520Hint %25201.jpg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usfirst.org%2FuploadedImages% 2FRobotics_Programs%2FFRC%2FGame_and_Season__Info% 2F2011_Assets%2FFRC%25202011%2520Game%2520Hint%252 01.jpg

Second hint:
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?b=3&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usfirst.org%2FuploadedIma ges%2FRobotics_Programs%2FFRC%2FGame_and_Season__I nfo%2F2011_Assets%2Flogo.jpg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usfirst.org%2FuploadedImages% 2FRobotics_Programs%2FFRC%2FGame_and_Season__Info% 2F2011_Assets%2Flogo.jpg

[pwortman]

Perhaps it can mean that all three robots on the alliance will need to work together more tightly in order to complete the game entirely, instead of previous years when each robot did it's own thing to help the alliance...

[sithmonkey13]

Just my thoughts, please no "but that has already been posted," I know, I just want to contribute some extra food for thought.

1. I agree with the idea that the things taken out of the pictures are important, if it had happened on one or the other, it wouldn't be important, but on both is too big a coincidence.
2. I doubt the people who say that a tube (like a column) would be used, because FTC's game pieces this year are tubes
3. I believe that the trains are the biggest red herring ever (although many ideas sound very awesome)
4. Going to the idea of things being taken away, the beta testers for the software said that in LabView one of the autonomous (I don't remember off the top of my head) was removed (Most likely unconnected to the game, but you never know)

My own opinions on some of the previously posted ideas:
1. I wouldn't mind having autonomous taken away (even though I enjoy programming it, it would leave time for troubleshooting other areas)
2. I would to have tetras back

[rahilm]

Now here's something interesting I figured out:
Take the aspect ratio of the hint, and divide it by the aspect ratio of http://usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRSTvert_Reversed.gif

The result:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(315/223)/(1019/919)

Notice the period for the repeating decimal...112998...an anagram for 1/8/1992, which happens to be the date for kickoff this year, and the year of the first game in FIRST. Probably just a coincidence, but pretty cool.

Edit: I am slightly confused by the Wolfram Alpha result though, because the decimal approximation doesn't show this repeating decimal. I may have misinterpreted, but a cool coincidence nonetheless.

Edit: After further research, I realized by period they mean period as in lamda, no in the grammatical sense.

[davidfv]

keehun: It's not a .zip, .rar, or .7z. There's no alpha in it (or if there is, I messed up)

I don't think they're removing Autonomous. It would be too big a change.

Paraphrasing Dave Lavery:
"I love it when people tell me what I can not do"

[24568]

what about if we have to build 3 different robot and each has to do a different function. Then we have to link together one of our robots with two form other teams. That would be links, locomotion, and having smaller robots like in the beginning of FIRST

[unionylibertad]

Now here's something interesting I figured out:
Take the aspect ratio of the hint, and divide it by the aspect ratio of http://usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRSTvert_Reversed.gif

The result:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(315/223)/(1019/919)

Notice the period for the repeating decimal...112998...an anagram for 1/8/1992, which happens to be the date for kickoff this year, and the year of the first game in FIRST. Probably just a coincidence, but pretty cool.

Edit: I am slightly confused by the Wolfram Alpha result though, because the decimal approximation doesn't show this repeating decimal. I may have misinterpreted, but a cool coincidence nonetheless.

Edit: After further research, I realized by period they mean period as in lamda, no in the grammatical sense.
notwithstanding, that's pretty cool

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Then if you badly needed to be tethered to a spot you tell your team, and if they can work better than you in that position, then try your best somewhere else, and hope for the best. That's why you always need a backup plan. If you can't play on the spot you do best at, be sure you can at least compete somewhere else at least somewhat well.

This is a design strategy, not a reason why the game is bad.

Honestly, though, I bet it'll just be the Greatest Hits game.

[h1n1is4pigs]

I'VE GOT IT!!!!!!!!!

IT MEANS THAT THE GAME WILL BE PUT ON BY FIRST!!!!
:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Justin Montois]

Putting it all together...

The first hint. A greatest hits album, words removed, image reversed.
= The game name will be "Locomotion" and it will be one of FIRST's greatest hits
= The reversed image means "Locomotion" will be played reversed, with auto mode being the last 20 seconds or so of the match


The second hint. The symbol that represents FIRST, with the wording removed showing just linked shapes.
= You will have to "Link up" with something, in order to go into auto mode
= You can't do this first(The first wording removed) you have to do this last, cause if your not first, your last.

Take it to the bank.

































Don't.

[lightsandmusik]

All three robots must have trailer hitches in front and back and create a train type chain.

[HedgeHogGal99]

My first thought when I saw this hint was interlocking pieces, seems like that could be a little hard to do though.

[galewind]

I just got to thinking that image one -- locomotion -- trains linked together.
image 2, first logo - linked symbols, but no FIRST logo.

Perhaps the game is called something like "The Missing Link" or something like that.

[JohnBoucher]

We've never used vision tracking before! If you can vision track this year, we will defenatly try!

Sorry Vision Tracking played a big part in three games

2005 Triple Play
2006 Aim High
2007 Rack and Roll

[HedgeHogGal99]

The shapes of the logo could always be like the carts of a train, you might have to hook up to the symbols or something like that.

[Tetraman]

The logo is based on the Archimedes Principle.

The Archimedes Principle is the law of displacement of liquid.

The Archimedes Principle was discovered by Archimedes

He discovered this when he got into a filled bathtub and when he got in water split over the sides

The bathtub was filled with water.

Water game.

[indubitably]

I am a firm believer in the thought that the game hints do not hide all of the rules, nor do they describe several parts of the game.

From reading the posts on this thread and the first game hint thread, the interpretations I believe in most are:

Game Hint 1:
The idea of locomotion has been too prevalent in the red herring and game hint #1 to be ignored. This does not mean we will be on a track, or linked up; but a much more loose interpretation of the word locomotion will be used to describe the game.

Also, I really like the idea of the reversal of the image signifying that autonomous will come last.

Game Hint 2:
I truly believe that first is just showing that the three alliance members will be working closely; not interlocked.

[JaneYoung]

i guess the only good that can come from bickering is that someperson here will have bragging rights when the game is realeased. and be able to say I TOLD YOU SO lol


This was about when I decided the thread had become dull and boring last night.

There are many ways to communicate one's thoughts and ideas. There are many ways to interpret what has been communicated. In deciding to ignore several pages in this thread, I based my decision on 3 separate frustrations linked together:

- the rapid-fire posts and exchanges over several pages
- the use of typos
- the shallow repetitive nature of the guesses

All of that would have better served its purpose in a private discussion.

Regarding thoughts of tethers and no autonomous... when thinking along these lines, are we keeping in mind, the meaning of the symbols and how they relate to the acronym of FIRST and what it stands for? When making guesses, are we thinking about the vision of the founders 20 years ago and how that vision has grown and developed over this span of time - moved along by the the program, the sponsors, and by the teams, themselves? The game will be rooted in 2011 and the advancements made over the twenty year span, while at the same time, it will have the potential to reflect back over the years in which the advancements have been made. It will not be going backward - it will bring the inspiration and recognition of science and technology - forward. You only have to look as far as FRC 118 to understand and appreciate the impact of this.

I'd take that to the bank.
Jane

[billbo911]

The logo is based on the Archimedes Principle.

The Archimedes Principle is the law of displacement of liquid.

The Archimedes Principle was discovered by Archimedes

He discovered this when he got into a filled bathtub and when he got in water split over the sides

The bathtub was filled with water.

Water game.

This got me thinking. (Insert your favorite one-liner here.)

No, I do not believe it will be a water game, but if.... The logo is based on the Archimedes Principle.

The Archimedes Principle is the law of displacement of liquid.
Wouldn't it be possible that the game would be one where three goals: one cone, one cube and one cylinder? These goals would need to be filled with scoring objects, like tennis balls.

Now, let's re-visit Eva. Instead of Extra Vehicular Activity, why not Extra Value Added. In other words, bonus points!
Maybe these points can be awarded if the number of scoring objects in the cone plus the cylinder equal the number in the cube.

This could also be done with two dimensional goals: a triangle, a circle and a square. That would allow the less experienced teams to also contribute.
Side note.


If the 2D goals had no rim or lip to keep the balls in, it would be like herding cats.:yikes:

[R2D2DOC]

I have read "most" of this thread. And apologies in advance for any repeats.

(A) Three different shaped pieces (points assigned based on having the same or nearly the same number of each shape in the alliances' scoring): Hint #2
(B) Different hopper cars or BOXCARS: Hint #1 and Dave's picture at the Boxcar Willy Memorial Overpass
(C) Place the cars on one or multiple overpasses (again, Dave's picture). They would be secured and freewheeling (like roller coaster cars). They could be color coded for two alliances.

Arena design to make it easy to manufacture and maintain without costs skyrocketing. Scoring to be obvious like 2007 (okay some math 2^n), 2009 or 2010, and NOT like 2008.

[Robert Cawthon]

I have read "most" of this thread. And apologies in advance for any repeats.

(A) Three different shaped pieces (points assigned based on having the same or nearly the same number of each shape in the alliances' scoring): Hint #2
(B) Different hopper cars or BOXCARS: Hint #1 and Dave's picture at the Boxcar Willy Memorial Overpass
(C) Place the cars on one or multiple overpasses (again, Dave's picture). They would be secured and freewheeling (like roller coaster cars). They could be color coded for two alliances.

Arena design to make it easy to manufacture and maintain without costs skyrocketing. Scoring to be obvious like 2007 (okay some math 2^n), 2009 or 2010, and NOT like 2008.

You can discount Dave's Willie Nelson Overpass picture. Thats been there as long as I have been paying attention to his posts.

[JesseK]

I would cry if there were no autonomous. This year the stdudent talent on our programming team outnumbers the student talent on the manipulator team, heh.

I like the idea of an end-game autonomous, with prerequisites.

I think at this point we can only hope that the game matches the better parts of what some of us have come up with over the last couple of weeks from the hints.

[yarb65]

Going to be a tractor pull.

[Jonathan Ryan]

What about the reversed EVA being AVE, which is a high speed train in spain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE

Which I am sure travels mainly on the plain.

Saturday cannot come fast enough!!!!

[ncordova1993]

The game is going to deal with trains! the girl is Eva Boyd and her hit single is Loco-motion. Robots will probably have to latch onto carts and pull them through gates for points!

P.S. check out the First website for a week zero event in Nashua NH. We are playing on a 2011 field and the game design committee from FIRST will be there! (yes woody and folks)

*sponsored by team 151 and FIRST
contact Malcolm Paradise at paradisem1@gmail.com

[karomata]

I think chains may also be a big part of this year's game. little eva's best-known song the loco-motion created a kind of dance called the chain dance and the shapes in the first logo shows them being interconnected like a chain.

it's also very hard to find the history behind the first logo

[zachmartin1806]

i dont have a headache it actually went away because i got so happy and excited about the new game hint
and to andy grady- i dont think they would do that becuase that would make the whole alliance thing into just a pair thing and plus it would screw up the field (try and fit a triangular field into most places and still have room to put stands) also if they are saluting first they wont switch a thing that has been around for quite a while

It wouldn't have to be a triangle it could be a square field with an alliance on three sides of the sides and the control table on the fourth. That could be the square part of the logo, use tertras or cones as the game pieces (the triangle), and a cylinder that you stack the game pieces on, hence the colum in the 1st hint. :ahh:

[Brianna]

I think the end game is going to have all three alliance partners hook up together (Locomotion, and the FIRST shapes that are hooked together.) They would have to do something, like drive in a circle or have the first robot pull the rest.

[Sean Raia]

I think the end game is going to have all three alliance partners hook up together (Locomotion, and the FIRST shapes that are hooked together.) They would have to do something, like drive in a circle or have the first robot pull the rest.

That sounds like a great end game.

[Brad1413]

It could be possible that we are using pieces from older games in each shape,for example, the tetras from triple play, the bins in stack attack, and the balls from aim high.

[JaneYoung]

It could be possible that we are using pieces from older games in each shape,for example, the tetras from triple play, the bins in stack attack, and the balls from aim high.

I am hoping for that but I'd rather see the return of the trackballs. Love those things.

[Brad1413]

I am hoping for that but I'd rather see the return of the trackballs. Love those things.I agree with you on that but i just don't see how FIRST would use them.

[torihoelscher]

Sorry if anyone else posted this but:
My Software mentor and I was brainstorming and we think that the first logo will be on the game pieces this year. Also this year's main event is Ice Hockey. The reason why I bring up the Hockey thing is because last years event was Soccer and the game was soccer and for Lunacy it was NASA, and the year before that was Nascar. If it is hockey related then the first logo will be on pucks (any size) really, and at a beginning of a hockey game they line up in a chain and face each other. They will be connected like a train and "push" the pucks into the goal.


Please tell me someone else has thought of this as well?

Please reply!

[thefro526]

I am hoping for that but I'd rather see the return of the trackballs. Love those things.

Trackballs would be awesome as some sort of end game objective. Drop Two of them onto the field in a way similar to the kick balls from 2004 in the last 20 seconds of the match or so and that'd be one heck of a twist.

I can imagine it now... :D

[JaneYoung]

Can you imagine the storage demands for bins, tetras, and trackballs?!

[SenorZ]

I think a cool game would be involve moving of pillars (like fence posts) to form a wall (hint#1) in order to prevent the opposing team from collection an objective (capture the flag style).
As for the FIRST logo in hint #2 I like the idea that it's just team members working together, but I think the literal "chain" inference is better. Maybe the posts can be linked together to make them harder to remove?

I'm a rookie mentor. Looking back at the 2010 hints I can't believe people figured that one out!

[Doug G]

And there are two traffic cones visible in this picture of Dave's summer vacation... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36002)

I'd be stoked if the playing element were traffic cones. Each year I give my robotics students a design task around a mock game for the week before kickoff. This year I made up a game called Cone Zone using standard 28" traffic cones.

http://www.vandenrobotics.com/bin/ConeZone.ppt

Other year's mock games are listed here (http://www.vandenrobotics.com/bin/).

[EricH]

We had hockey in 2009 as well. That "1/6 gravity" surface sure resembled ice.

Pucks... 1999's game, anybody? (The big strategy item that year was a large octagonal platform that moved. If it was on your side of the field, your score was doubled. It was known as the puck.)

[torihoelscher]

We had hockey in 2009 as well. That "1/6 gravity" surface sure resembled ice.

Pucks... 1999's game, anybody? (The big strategy item that year was a large octagonal platform that moved. If it was on your side of the field, your score was doubled. It was known as the puck.)

Yes but that was supposed to represent the moon's surface! This would actually be ice!

[demosthenes2k8]

I agree, trackballs are amazing. Volleyball with Trackballs is not, though. (Try spiking. Go ahead. Try it.)

I like the "moving pillars" idea, but there'd probably be some weird rules like "you can't tip the pillars" or similar, or you'll be unable to completely block off an area.

[onecoolc]

Alright, at this point it's unlikely I can say anything that hasn't already been said. So here's what I'm going with:

1. Train themed game
2. Heavily coopertition based
3. Possibility of a white alliance

They're probably ALL wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :P

[billbo911]

I'd be stoked if the playing element were traffic cones. Each year I give my robotics students a design task around a mock game for the week before kickoff. This year I made up a game called Cone Zone using standard 28" traffic cones.

http://www.vandenrobotics.com/bin/ConeZone.ppt

Other year's mock games are listed here (http://www.vandenrobotics.com/bin/).

That would actually be a really great FRC game!

Doug, you get my vote to be a member of the GDC next year! :)

[TheoBlacksmith]

Alright, at this point it's unlikely I can say anything that hasn't already been said. So here's what I'm going with:

1. Train themed game
2. Heavily coopertition based
3. Possibility of a white alliance

They're probably ALL wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :P

i agree with most of what onecoolc said except for the possilbilty of a white alliance. it would be to racist.

[thefro526]

Can you imagine the storage demands for bins, tetras, and trackballs?!

What if they got bins big enough to store the other game pieces, but were also game pieces themselves?

That'd be nifty.

[TheoBlacksmith]

Crap. There was a second hint after all, looks like I was wrong... :o

I really, really, really hope this means that there are going to be multiple scoring objects or objectives. That would be too cool.

Or another Alliance. That'd be cool too.

a piece that can hold other pieces will probably be a score multiplyer,

[JJ Hoo]

Has anyone considered shape of the field itself? or the fact that international is no longer in Atlanta?

[IndySam]

I like the whole balls scored in movable round, triangle and square goals thing. With hanging or elevating of some sort.

Logo-Motion

[Tetraman]

Has anyone considered shape of the field itself? or the fact that international is no longer in Atlanta?

As for the competition being in St. Louis, I don't see any big connection.

The shape of the field might not change, but there might be specific shapes that are formed on the field in the shape of a triangle or circle that would be different then just a simple splitting the field in half.

I like the whole balls scored in movable round, triangle and square goals thing. With hanging or elevating of some sort.

Logo-Motion

So...Zone Zeal meets Raising the Bar?

I would see something like that but feels a bit empty.

[Travis Hoffman]

We had hockey in 2009 as well. That "1/6 gravity" surface sure resembled ice.

Pucks... 1999's game, anybody? (The big strategy item that year was a large octagonal platform that moved. If it was on your side of the field, your score was doubled. It was known as the puck.)

Search for "1999 FIRST Championship Finals" on YouTube if you want to see robots interact with the puck. Specifically, one robot that was known for keeping others off of it.

[EricH]

Search for "1999 FIRST Championship Finals" on YouTube if you want to see robots interact with the puck. Specifically, one robot that was known for keeping others off of it.
It's been a few years, but I remember one CA robot that went right over the puck at the start of the match, and a certain orange and black robot that curled onto the vertical poles on the sides much like many teams this year.

[Tetraman]

Search for "1999 FIRST Championship Finals" on YouTube if you want to see robots interact with the puck. Specifically, one robot that was known for keeping others off of it.

Feels like a flat version of Stack Attack. Lots of pushing and shoving and more about being able to bully around the field. FIRST fields changed very fast though, wow. I didn't know that the player stations were that arcane back then.

Maybe if the field had two steps. A 4" step in the shape of the Triangle and Square, and the circle was a 8" step.

[Christopher149]

I am hoping for that but I'd rather see the return of the trackballs. Love those things.

When I saw this, I thought: Locomotion => Trains => Train Tracks => Trackballs. It's a possibility.

[ghostmachine360]

That's new! It could be a FRC'd version of a previous FLL or FTC competition!

I noticed that one of the items available for teams to get from FIRST Choice, from AndyMark, is an FTC Mini Kit. Maybe there is an element from FTC that we could consider in this year's FRC game. Just a thought.

[Travis Hoffman]

Here’s my final (and only) wild and crazy guess about the 2011 game:

Game Name: Logomotion (not an original guess – others have suggested this name – it sounds cool to me!)

Originally, I thought there could be three moveable goals, similar to those built in 2002. One will be triangular. One will be circular (likely octagonal for ease of construction). One will be square. They will start in the FIRST logo orientation. Robots would be able to grab and move these goals around. There would be some advantage for positioning these goals in specific areas of the field. Hence – “Logo”motion.

However, now, instead of PVC goals, I'm thinking the three shapes could manifest in the form of 3 1999 pucks. These were castered carpeted platforms robots could drive on top of. Maybe the puck platforms would be set at 2 or 3 different heights - I'm thinking the triangle and square would be easy enough for robots to get on, but the central circular/octagonal platform would be taller and more difficult for robots and human players to reach. Maybe game piece scoring containers would be fixed at the center of each puck.

Just for fun, perhaps each puck would be fixed in its center to a pivot point and freely rotate. In fact, I can see this being a very cool field to pay homage to the 20th anniversary of FRC, as it would not mess with the chi of the FIRST logo – the shapes would always be in the same spatial relationship – triangle, circle, square.

There will be 1 big ball (perhaps the 2008 trackball), but playground kickballs will be the most prevalent game pieces. Each alliance has X game pieces in their alliance color - red or blue.

The big ball will start the match on top of the central circular (and tallest) puck structure. Small balls can be scored in any of the 3 puck goals, but you get double points for scoring in the center goal.

Human players get to be jump shooters like in 2004. Both HP's and robots can score small balls in the goals.

Capping your goal with the big ball doubles that goal's ball score for your alliance. Capping the center goal with the big ball doubles the ball score for EACH alliance's balls contained within the center goal (which are already worth 2x points). Awwww coopertition. Warm fuzzies.

The big ball can be freely descored at any time during the match.

There could likely be some other field element - we need more to the endgame, right? A king of the hill platform like 2004 would be fun. In fact, the center puck will serve as a stepping stone to this highest platform (but remember - it rotates...evil). Heck - add a hanging bar on top. Double heck - add steep ramps as a direct path to the KOH platform. Robots also get a smaller endgame bonus for being on the center puck at match end.


So there you have it.

Finally, some have suggested there will be 3 distinctly-shaped game pieces – one of each logo shape – 2005 tetras, 20-whatever balls, 2003 bins, for example. I hope FIRST doesn't go this route, as any type of triangular or square game pieces sturdy enough to handle the rigors of an FRC competition are likely either custom-built or hard/pricey to obtain.

[Jilllian]

I think chains may also be a big part of this year's game. little eva's best-known song the loco-motion created a kind of dance called the chain dance and the shapes in the first logo shows them being interconnected like a chain.

it's also very hard to find the history behind the first logo

I, too, think chains may play a major role in this year's game. As it would be difficult to chain robots together and operate them in unison, perhaps points will be scored through creating a chain of some sort of specialized game piece. Another idea is similar to the bonus round of last year's game; using some sort of arm, this time horizontal rather than vertical, to latch on to other robots to form a chain. Of course, knowing our dear friends at FIRST, it's very unlikely that it will be that easy.

[TheoBlacksmith]

Here’s my final (and only) wild and crazy guess about the 2011 game:

Game Name: Logomotion (not an original guess – others have suggested this name – it sounds cool to me!)

Originally, I thought there could be three moveable goals, similar to those built in 2002. One will be triangular. One will be circular (likely octagonal for ease of construction). One will be square. They will start in the FIRST logo orientation. Robots would be able to grab and move these goals around. There would be some advantage for positioning these goals in specific areas of the field. Hence – “Logo”motion.

However, now, instead of PVC goals, I'm thinking the three shapes could manifest in the form of 3 1999 pucks. These were castered carpeted platforms robots could drive on top of. Maybe the puck platforms would be set at 2 or 3 different heights - I'm thinking the triangle and square would be easy enough for robots to get on, but the central circular/octagonal platform would be taller and more difficult for robots and human players to reach. Maybe game piece scoring containers would be fixed at the center of each puck.

Just for fun, perhaps each puck would be fixed in its center to a pivot point and freely rotate. In fact, I can see this being a very cool field to pay homage to the 20th anniversary of FRC, as it would not mess with the chi of the FIRST logo – the shapes would always be in the same spatial relationship – triangle, circle, square.

There will be 1 big ball (perhaps the 2008 trackball), but playground kickballs will be the most prevalent game pieces. Each alliance has X game pieces in their alliance color - red or blue.

The big ball will start the match on top of the central circular (and tallest) puck structure. Small balls can be scored in any of the 3 puck goals, but you get double points for scoring in the center goal.

Human players get to be jump shooters like in 2004. Both HP's and robots can score small balls in the goals.

Capping your goal with the big ball doubles that goal's ball score for your alliance. Capping the center goal with the big ball doubles the ball score for EACH alliance's balls contained within the center goal (which are already worth 2x points). Awwww coopertition. Warm fuzzies.

The big ball can be freely descored at any time during the match.

There could likely be some other field element - we need more to the endgame, right? A king of the hill platform like 2004 would be fun. In fact, the center puck will serve as a stepping stone to this highest platform (but remember - it rotates...evil). Heck - add a hanging bar on top. Double heck - add steep ramps as a direct path to the KOH platform. Robots also get a smaller endgame bonus for being on the center puck at match end.


So there you have it.

Finally, some have suggested there will be 3 distinctly-shaped game pieces – one of each logo shape – 2005 tetras, 20-whatever balls, 2003 bins, for example. I hope FIRST doesn't go this route, as any type of triangular or square game pieces sturdy enough to handle the rigors of an FRC competition are likely either custom-built or hard/pricey to obtain.

most logical answer ive seen yet

[Tetraman]

So there you have it.

It's a work in progress, but if you are still in the thread, tell me what you think:

I added the idea of four of the PVC poles in the center goal be longer, thus if a robot gains hold and moves it to the right spot, it can block the opponent from scoring in that goal. The Triangle and Square platforms are 5" high and the circle is 1' high.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/TCS.png

[EricH]

I added the idea of four of the PVC poles in the center goal be longer, thus if a robot gains hold and moves it to the right spot, it can block the opponent from scoring in that goal.

You mean like the stationary goals in 2004--If it's rotated right, it's a backstop, and if it's wrong, it's an obstacle, but not an insurmountable one. Very interesting--and the match starts with the low side aiming towards the audience.

[Tetraman]

You mean like the stationary goals in 2004--If it's rotated right, it's a backstop, and if it's wrong, it's an obstacle, but not an insurmountable one. Very interesting--and the match starts with the low side aiming towards the audience.

correct! I figure that since the center goal is more important, giving a total of 2 free minutes to shoot at will would be too easy. Giving a robot something to do during that time. Would be fun I think, though very rough and tough and I kinda don't like high-struggle FIRST games.

[dodar]

I do like the idea but what would be a fun/interesting/thrilling end game on that field? Also, would there be any stairs or just the goals floors raised up.

[SoftroniX]

The first game hint was the album cover for an album by Little Eva. The FIRST logo could just be referencing the first track on the album, seeing as the company name has been removed from the picture. If this were true, then the first track on the album is The Locomotion. So are we possibly gonna have to pull a series of carts or maybe even go on a track of some sort?

[TomH]

I think this years game is going to be a game with columns that correspond with the shapes of the FIRST logo, and game pieces that have to be places around them. How it would be set up and all I don't know, but the column idea can have targets and there for camera use. Just what I thought of.

[dodar]

Ok, there should be a kind of thread lock so that to see the next post, you have to spend atleast 5 seconds on the previous post. People, Im begging you, READ THE PREVIOUS POST BEFORE YOU POST!

[279 EMPIE]

What if the Triangle, Circle, and Square were scoring pieces(using pieces to score)

[rabridges]

What if the Triangle, Circle, and Square were scoring pieces(using pieces to score)

Someone mention that early in the thread, but is a good game idea.

[SoftroniX]

I also just found on a thread that the codename for the 2011 game is supposedly "Kokomotion" which I guess could relate back to "Locomotion".

[279 EMPIE]

I also just found on a thread that the codename for the 2011 game is supposedly "Kokomotion" which I guess could relate back to "Locomotion".

I wonder what the koko part would refer to then

im going to google it!!!!!

[279 EMPIE]

it came up with stuff about Gorilla foundations

[Tetraman]

I also just found on a thread that the codename for the 2011 game is supposedly "Kokomotion" which I guess could relate back to "Locomotion".

What did KokoEd tell Dave Lavery?

[279 EMPIE]

just found that there is a Koko Taylor
Koko is a singer so the 1st hint would be the music thing or something
IDK maybe something to do with it

[Determan]

One thing that I have noticed in game hint #1 is that " Little Eva" 's picture is mirrored to the album version of the same picture...
-Little Eva- (http://www.last.fm/music/Little+Eva/+images/6550963)

I don't know what this means however...

[SoftroniX]

that may be so that we couldn't just pop the picture into TinEye and do a reverse search. I flipped the image before doing the search though which is how I got results. It was really just a lucky guess.:D

[279 EMPIE]

One thing that I have noticed in game hint #1 is that " Little Eva" 's picture is mirrored to the album version of the same picture...
-Little Eva- (http://www.last.fm/music/Little+Eva/+images/6550963)

I don't know what this means however...

What about the locomotion music video????????????

[dmitch]

Each team on an alliance will get a shape, either a triangle, a square, or a circle. For example {{red alliance: square}} might be your allocated slot for the match. The goal will be to compete directly against the other teams robot(for example, {{blue alliance: square}}) while also helping out your teammates. You will score by getting your square-shaped pieces into some sort of goal on the other teams side. Pillars are in the middle of the field because this idea was running dry and i had to put pillars in somewhere.

[SoftroniX]

I've watched it. It's just a bunch of people with retro hairdos dancing the locomotion. I sure hope they aren't trying to say that our robots will be controlled with DDR mats or something like that. Although it would make things interseting :rolleyes:

[279 EMPIE]

What about the locomotion music video????????????

http://www.last.fm/music/Little+Eva/+videos/+1-C5OoQadZTPk
The spot llights make the shape of a triangle

The next hints could also make the shapes of the circle and square

[dmitch]

OR The reversed album picture means that the field will be a reversed version of the first logo. WIN.

[EricH]

I also just found on a thread that the codename for the 2011 game is supposedly "Kokomotion" which I guess could relate back to "Locomotion".
If you didn't notice, that thread was in the RUMOR MILL, and was discussing an earthquake that happened in central Indiana, in jest saying that it was related to the new game.

In other words, the code name is not "Kokomotion"; in fact, I don't know if it even has a code name.

Now: I suggest that anybody thinking they found something new and obvious read the first 5-10 pages of both game hint threads. It'll take half an hour and save a lot of annoyance when you figure out that 47 people already posted the same thing, 51 hours ago.

[279 EMPIE]

:(

[bassoondude]

At a leadership meeting today we were tossing around ideas, and 1 struck me as really interesting and quite possible. The shapes are different games pieces (as has been mentioned millions of times before), and the goal of the game is to sort pieces into different train cars based on their shape. (this train is moving, by the way). To expand on this thought, the human player would control the train by pressing a button that randomly changed the speed of the train.

[rabridges]

Did anybody notice that star bucks change there logo too? No words around the logo, maybe the field will be covered in coffee beans. Just joking, as far hint 2. I noticed that the picture is magnified, that's probably why it looks like it is low resolution.

[kgzak]

I know what the game is. I'm not telling until saturday though. :rolleyes:

[davidthefat]

I know what the game is. I'm not telling until saturday though. :rolleyes:

I call lies:mad:

[rabridges]

I call lies:mad:

I know what the game is. I'm not telling until saturday though. :rolleyes:

Unless he figured out the manual password.

[ReapersRule]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this (or if it's significant) but her fourth finger on her right hand (in the first pic FIRST gave us) looks like it goes through the pole. Any significance there?

[Tetraman]

I know what the game is. I'm not telling until saturday though. :rolleyes:

nice try.

Though around now the special people in charge of building the game elements are given the plans to build some game elements for kick-off locations. Plenty of people know the game by now and are just good people not to say a word.

And then there is Dave who just taunts us.... :)

[rabridges]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this (or if it's significant) but her fourth finger on her right hand (in the first pic FIRST gave us) looks like it goes through the pole. Any significance there?

Yeah noticed, did not work up a explanation as how it would fit in the game.

[Grim Tuesday]

Maybe he brute forced it :P

[Chris is me]

Though around now the special people in charge of building the game elements are given the plans to build some game elements for kick-off locations. Plenty of people know the game by now and are just good people not to say a word.

Isn't Gracious Professionalism great?

Though, with regards to that specific example, I was once told that the field set-up people were given partial plans of specific areas on the field, with no idea how they'd go together until a few days before.

I imagine a select number of folks at AndyMark have plenty of advance knowledge of the game. They have to design and make a kit chassis every year along with many other kit parts. They must be GP champions to keep a tight lid as long as they know about the game.

[KrazyCarl92]

Isn't Gracious Professionalism great?

Though, with regards to that specific example, I was once told that the field set-up people were given partial plans of specific areas on the field, with no idea how they'd go together until a few days before.

I imagine a select number of folks at AndyMark have plenty of advance knowledge of the game. They have to design and make a kit chassis every year along with many other kit parts. They must be GP champions to keep a tight lid as long as they know about the game.

No surprises there, we should have already known that!

[IndySam]

Isn't Gracious Professionalism great?
I imagine a select number of folks at AndyMark have plenty of advance knowledge of the game. They have to design and make a kit chassis every year along with many other kit parts. They must be GP champions to keep a tight lid as long as they know about the game.

The folks at AM have to sign a very strict non-disclosure statement. If they leak any info they would be out of business.

If I had a dollar for every time Mark said to me "I can't tell you" .......................

[thefro526]

Isn't Gracious Professionalism great?

Though, with regards to that specific example, I was once told that the field set-up people were given partial plans of specific areas on the field, with no idea how they'd go together until a few days before.

I imagine a select number of folks at AndyMark have plenty of advance knowledge of the game. They have to design and make a kit chassis every year along with many other kit parts. They must be GP champions to keep a tight lid as long as they know about the game.

I've often thought that those who made mock-up fields for remote Kick-Off's were probably given an entire set of field drawings, but no manual. Without game rules and knowing the game piece, anyone could be given drawings of the field and not really be able to make much use of them.

Oh, and I heard that Andy Baker already knows what 2030's game is and it already working on the kitboat for that. ;)

[Tetraman]

I've often thought that those who made mock-up fields for remote Kick-Off's were probably given an entire set of field drawings, but no manual. Without game rules and knowing the game piece, anyone could be given drawings of the field and not really be able to make much use of them.


This is true. I helped out for the kickoff in Rochester last year, and on the day of the reveal, a few hours early, the kit arrived and everyone who promised not to say a word helped put it all together. We just saw a top view of the field and then a page for assembling the tower, two bumps and the human player station. There was nothing that said what each part was or what it was used for, we had to guess. Didn't matter too much, 2 hours after finishing it up the webcast started.

It was really cool to actually hold that kind of serious secret position, ::rtm:: even if it was for only two hours and a webcast. haha

[Dogtag]

Maybe this new hint has no new information, it could just be a confirmation of the "locomotion" idea. The shapes are linked like train cars...

[JesseK]

I've often thought that those who made mock-up fields for remote Kick-Off's were probably given an entire set of field drawings, but no manual. Without game rules and knowing the game piece, anyone could be given drawings of the field and not really be able to make much use of them.

Oh, and I heard that Andy Baker already knows what 2030's game is and it already working on the kitboat for that. ;)

In 2030, we will be flying 3D CAD's of our robots via human gestures and no controls. The physics engine will be so real, the 3D technology so awesome, and the audience so large that Verizon and ATT will have to make whole new business plans to compensate for the insane increases in bandwidth to viewers' mobile devices.

Andy Baker told me so himself.

[Dogtag]

My awesome cool friend looked at the hints and said "You might have to link something together..."

[spartan058]

Maybe this new hint has no new information, it could just be a confirmation of the "locomotion" idea. The shapes are linked like train cars...

Which when combined with Little Eva's hit single being entitled " The Loco-Motion", leads one to suspect that maybe it is related to trains in some sort, or Locomotion in general. I agree though, this could be a more subtle reaffirmation of Locomotion being involved.

[robox89]

Hey everybody out there! Just to let you know the encoded manual is out...

[TriRulz]

Remember the game couldn't invole track or trains because the 'bots would always be crashing right? Right???:eek:

[R2D2DOC]

The tracks and "boxcars" (hoppers or gondolas) could be on an OVERPASS ! !

[Tetraman]

I have a theory.

CD receives the most new members during game hint season.

[thefro526]

I have a theory.

CD receives the most new members during game hint season.

I'd venture to say that's a truth.

[TriRulz]

@above yes i agree but i joined because my teacher said something about it not because of the hint threads...

[GaryVoshol]

Remember the game couldn't invole track or trains because the 'bots would always be crashing right? Right???:eek:

As opposed to robots running around anywhere on the field and crashing?

PS As a newbie, you may want to review what Gracious Professionalism means ( http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/content.aspx?id=36&terms=gracious+professionalism ) and decide whether that applies to your signature.


EDIT: Hmm, this just popped up as a spotlight post: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=880922&postcount=44 What goes around, comes around.

[Brianna]

Some other kids of 93 and I have decided that because it's the 20th anniversary, FIRST is going to borrow things from other seasons. Track balls from 2008, and the tetrahedron from Triple Play 2005, because of the logo being a hint. Not sure about the square game piece.

[Frenchie461]

I don't think i've seen this yet, but has anyone looked at any of the other songs on the album besides locomotion for possible game inspiration? The number of tracks on the album could also be a giveaway for something.

My personal theory is that the game will be a greatest hits of past first games, but that's just me...

[karomata]

the reason that that song is so looked into is because the chain dance developed out of it.

[DarrinMunter]

That album was released Feb. 2001

http://new.music.yahoo.com/little-eva/albums/

[karomata]

after more research,

Little Eva's song Swing'in on a Star looks interesting

that would be new for FRC

[bcieslak]

Hmmmm....Triple Play returns???

[Robert Cawthon]

This should probably be in Game Hint #1, but it seems to me that since the album is a compilation of Little Eva's songs and the image is reversed, the game would be a compilation of the previous games (Best of?) with a twist. i.e. the trackball has to roll under the ladder and the robot has to climb over or some such. And I like the idea of three game pieces.

[thefro526]

Some other kids of 93 and I have decided that because it's the 20th anniversary, FIRST is going to borrow things from other seasons. Track balls from 2008, and the tetrahedron from Triple Play 2005, because of the logo being a hint. Not sure about the square game piece.

Last (and only?) Sqaure/Rectangular game piece were the Totes from Stack Attack which was the game in the 2003 Season.

Though, the First Logo isn't a Triangle, Circle and Sqaure, it's actually a Cone, Sphere and Cylinder...

This should probably be in Game Hint #1, but it seems to me that since the album is a compilation of Little Eva's songs and the image is reversed, the game would be a compilation of the previous games (Best of?) with a twist. i.e. the trackball has to roll under the ladder and the robot has to climb over or some such. And I like the idea of three game pieces.

I agree with this, I think FIRST's Greatest Hits with a Twist is far more likely than a Train inspired game. For some reason, I can't bring myself to interpret the first clue as a hint to the song "locomotion".

[pwortman]

I had an idea that maybe more was removed from the originals for the hints, so i found the originals and placed them side by side and played "find the differences" :P unfortunately, I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary :/

maybe someone else can see what I cannot?

9584

Heck, there may not be anything anyway :P

(if anyone wants a bigger pic, email me and i'll send it to ya! :P ptwortman@gmail.com)

[SEV33RoboMan]

Ive read thousands of threads before in years past on game hints but this year has been amazing. Game hint 1 is well over 800 post and climbing and now this one is soon to catch up.

My thought with this little time left before kick-off it wont matter how well or how close you guess.

[Christopher149]

It's probably not significant, but the hint uses a brighter blue, a slightly darker red, and less color variation within the shapes.

[Grim Tuesday]

It's probably not significant, but the hint uses a brighter blue, a slightly darker red, and less color variation within the shapes.

That actually might be significant, considering that it means that it was not a simple crop operation.

Maybe this year will have something to do with sorting colors.

[holygrail]

I think maybe there will be three alliances this year instead of two (red, white, and blue). Maybe with just two robots on each alliance (that's a throwback, there used to be 2 team alliances). The robots will be linked together either with your alliance, or, more interestingly, with your opponents at some point during the match. That brings in the "locomotion" concept (the name of the song by the lady in the photo in hint 1).

My opinion. I'm really just saying this so that I get bragging rights if I'm in any way correct.

[JesseK]

Slide 3 of this official document (http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRSTbrandGuide_MAR262010.pdf) shows that the hint actually used the official colors of the FIRST logo. Use the CMYK/RGB values given on that slide to do a more quantitative analysis. You'll also have to account for .jpg artifacts that show up as part of the compression as well.

Do not confuse those colors with the other colors of the 'family' of programs, explained on slide 17: while the FRC color is a darker blue, that darker blue is never actually on the Square part of the logo, ever! It's only used in lettering for FRC.

[Robert Cawthon]

I think maybe there will be three alliances this year instead of two (red, white, and blue). Maybe with just two robots on each alliance (that's a throwback, there used to be 2 team alliances). The robots will be linked together either with your alliance, or, more interestingly, with your opponents at some point during the match. That brings in the "locomotion" concept (the name of the song by the lady in the photo in hint 1).

My opinion. I'm really just saying this so that I get bragging rights if I'm in any way correct.

except that you weren't the first to suggest either, although I must say I do not recall anyone putting both in one post.

[TD912]

That actually might be significant, considering that it means that it was not a simple crop operation.

Maybe this year will have something to do with sorting colors.

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRSTbrandGuide_MAR262010.pdf

There's official colors in this PDF. A lot of times programs inadvertently change the colors of an image slightly on computers where the screen colors are not properly calibrated for graphic design use. Plus there's this whole thing on converting RGB screen colors to CMYK printer colors.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

someone said the interlocking pieces on this one.. and on the last clue the collumn was mentioned.. what if we have pieces of a column of some type we have to build.. and when its complete we have to hang on it for extra points.. more autonomous things too like line following to be able to get some of the pieces

[demosthenes2k8]

Building a column would be interesting, but difficult, depending on how many and what kind of pieces it would be broken into. Hanging on it would be too dangerous, though. Maybe something else...since the Little Eva picture was reversed, assembling some mirrors to make light paths would be a fun challenge.

[karomata]

our drivers may have to put up with vision-disorienting mirrors on the field.

[Timmur]

could it possibly be based on her first ever song and they are using their logo to point it out? it is a stretch but anything goes right? We could also go with the linked idea that you are linked with one other bot and you are trying to hook up with as many of your alliance as you can. the only problem is, is that gracious professionalism? I read most posts but if an idea was already stated out of this, I'm sorry. there are just too many posts :)

[EricH]

I had an idea that maybe more was removed from the originals for the hints, so i found the originals and placed them side by side and played "find the differences" :P unfortunately, I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary :/


Start by finding the album cover with the title on it. Then we'll talk difference finding. (Oh, and quick hint: email might be better off not posted publicly. PMs and forum email work pretty well, if enabled.)

[beastoftheeast]

you guys, i figured it out, it's so OBVI! the playing field is going to look exactly like the logo, but actually in 3dimentions, and it will be a race track to see who can complete 3 laps first, for the triangle you may go straight up, up the sides, or a loop in the center and return to the circle, finally, for the extra points, since the album cover is from the past, there will be a wormhole in the middle of the circle that if players reach it first (because everyone knows, only 1 thing may travel through a wormhole before it closes) they will be taken back in time 10seconds, to help complete the last lap.


what do you guys think? fool-proof right?

[zfadness]

[QUOTE=Joe G.;990826]I'm going to guess it's something related to the Archimedes-inspired origins of the FIRST logo that they talked about at championships last year.

I believe this has a big part to do with it. It is the type of vague thing they would go for. The greek pillar and historical background of the logo. I also believe the loco-motion idea has merit. Maybe a type of claw to get game pieces out of an elevated bin, then take it (possibily in in some kind of trainlike, cargo carrying way) to something something simialar to archimedes screw to put it in opponent's bin. Least amount of pieces wins.

[Christopher149]

Here is the album cover:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000024VI6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Something interesting is that while searching, there are many other pictures of her with various columns.

[Grim Tuesday]

As Yoda would say:

A dead horse, you are beating.

[Bjenks548]

If i combine the two hints with how Interpret them I get this
-Locomotion (trains)
-The archenemies balance principle
I think here is your end game, all the way back from I think 2002, balance a towed something on a bridge. Although if i had to guess FIRST will make it much harder to balance the bridge or whatever it is then back in 2002.

[XXShadowXX]

A dead horse, you are beating.
Dude this is the game hint we aren't beating a dead horse. We are beating the Elmer's glue bottle.

to avoid a double post, my thoughts:

1) The first hint a reflection of the album cover in question.. Or a different picture. What ever the posing suggests a reflection.

2) Low res picture.

Inference: 1 & 2 are pictures, I would expect a camera to be used in some way because of this. The reflection suggests that we may have to work with some sort of distortion to make that robot function correctly, I.E.: visible light either to the camera or person. The Low res picture strengths this argument in my opinion because it tells us we are dealing with limited data. Looks like in some way we will be signal processing IMO. That is as far as I'll venture a guess.

Edit 1:
Despite technical challenges I still maintain this game will take place either on or below water.

[T-Whit]

I'm starting to think that maybe we are looking too deep. This is our teams first year and I don't have any experience with game hints but I think I have a point. I like the idea of old games brought back. Think about it the picture of Lil Eva is old and the FIRST logo looks like it's an older picture as well. Just a thought. Also, advice for my team would be nice:D

[Bill_B]

If i combine the two hints with how Interpret them I get this
-Locomotion (trains)
-The archenemies balance principle
I think here is your end game, all the way back from I think 2002, balance a towed something on a bridge. Although if i had to guess FIRST will make it much harder to balance the bridge or whatever it is then back in 2002.
I think you meant to say "Archimedes" and the spell checker offered a different word. Archenemies would be something like Batman and the Joker. I'm not aware of a balance principle, unless it has something to do with the Flying Wallendas or maybe Circ du Soliel. Some sort of balance requirement would indeed be a challenge for FRC robotics. We humans have quite some difficulties with it ourselves.:D

[Team#2057-Vegas]

I think you meant to say "Archimedes" and the spell checker offered a different word. Archenemies would be something like Batman and the Joker. I'm not aware of a balance principle, unless it has something to do with the Flying Wallendas or maybe Circ du Soliel. Some sort of balance requirement would indeed be a challenge for FRC robotics. We humans have quite some difficulties with it ourselves.:D

Team 2057 claims putting batman ears on our bot if this is the case :ahh:

[Grim Tuesday]

Im so tired right now, I read what was supposed to be Archimedes as arc-e-meanies, as in really mean people. Then when I read the Joker, I thought of this joker (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100909055252/masseffect/images/thumb/a/a6/Joker_Character_Box.png/603px-Joker_Character_Box.png)


I need some sleep.

[Chief Samwize]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned many times but here are my thoughts.

The first hint is a picture of the Little Eva album cover for "The Complete Dimension Recordings". The album about amounts to a "greatest hits" collection. This year will be the 20th game for FIRST. The second clue is simply a picture of the FIRST logo.

Adding the two clues together I interpreted it as possibly being a "greatest hits of FIRST" so to say. With it being a landmark year for FIRST, possibly a remake of a past game or elements from previous games combined for a new game.

Then again I may be completely over analyzing the clues :D

-Sam

[rabridges]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/RaulMonkey/Animated/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[279 EMPIE]

At a leadership meeting today we were tossing around ideas, and 1 struck me as really interesting and quite possible. The shapes are different games pieces (as has been mentioned millions of times before), and the goal of the game is to sort pieces into different train cars based on their shape. (this train is moving, by the way). To expand on this thought, the human player would control the train by pressing a button that randomly changed the speed of the train.

Someone on team 279 suggested the almost same exact thing

[chris janney]

my team did some thinking of their own. the chick sang locomotion,so we may have to pulll something

[2bkrul]

my team did some thinking of their own. the chick sang locomotion,so we may have to pulll something

We already know this. Read the past posts

[bobosalad]

One thing I noticed was "little" from the first hint. now that I see the second hint, all I can think of is the childs game where you have to put a circle prism in a circle hole. and most kids try to put the rectangular prism in the circle hole.

[Tetraman]

Whipped this up for fun. Not sure what I'm really doing to it yet, but it looks intense.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/FRCFieldEmpty.png

[rabridges]

Whipped this up for fun. Not sure what I'm really doing to it yet, but it looks intense.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/FRCFieldEmpty.png

That's xcellent, how would the game play out?

[Tetraman]

That's xcellent, how would the game play out?

Not sure. Maybe something like Overdrive where the idea is to pass balls over the alliance's colored bars...

Or my "hook" game piece idea and you need to hang big hooks on the bars, but you get those from your triangle area.

Still thinking.

[SteveGPage]

Not sure. Maybe something like Overdrive where the idea is to pass balls over the alliance's colored bars...

Or my "hook" game piece idea and you need to hang big hooks on the bars, but you get those from your triangle area.

Still thinking.

I hope you make it on to the GDC! You would make a great addition! Thanks for all the sketches you have provided during the hint threads!

15 hours and ticking! Let the games begin! :)

[alectronic]

I just heard that the game pieces take a hour to assemble... one of our mentors is going tonight to assemble ours for the k.c. kickoff tom....

Everyone that gets the plans early have signed non-disclosure agreements and they are not supposed to tell you or anyone else what they get. And, the plans they receive do not come with the game piece (or at least not in the past 19 games) so they are probably mistaken about what they are seeing.
I guess we will know tomorrow.

[Karibou]

I just heard that the game pieces take a hour to assemble... one of our mentors is going tonight to assemble ours for the k.c. kickoff tom....
Probably wrong. They may have been talking about how it takes about an hour to build/assemble the part of the field that they have been given to set up, not the game piece.

[dag0620]

I just heard that the game pieces take a hour to assemble... one of our mentors is going tonight to assemble ours for the k.c. kickoff tom....

I don't think any of you got the comedy behind what he said!:D

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Now that it's the night before kickoff, I'll give my thoughts on these hints (I'm most likely to be wrong anyways)

The first hint strongly suggested 'loco-motion' was what they were getting at. I believe that this will reference 'crazy motion' that the robots will be forced to do, due to the requirements put on the drivetrains (see further)

The second hint suggests that something will be missing (the missing TM in the logo) that has been standard since ... well almost forever.

Hence, my belief that the drivetrains this year will not be allowed motors, and will instead be required to move through pneumatic power.

I also believe that the game will be a variant of a previous game ... keeping with the greatest hits theme and the mirrored album cover.

Here's to hoping I'm wrong :yikes:

[dodar]

your post just gave me an interesting thought. The 2nd game hint is missing something at the bottom, the Little Eva hint is the album cover for her greatest hits for the past 20 years. Maybe this means we are going back to the no-bumpers option., becasue bumpers are also at the bottom of the robots.

[JaneYoung]

Logo Motion. :)

(Name inspired by this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=990982&postcount=853) post.) Even if it is wrong, I am so singing this all season. Come on baby, do the logo motion. It rocks!

I'm so singing this all season long. :) Great game!

[Jack Jones]

Hint #1: Locomotion
Hint #2: A Logo

#1 + #2 = Logomotion

My guess: It's a shooting game but with moving FIRST Logo targets.

"Missed it by this much!" - the shooting part. We really wanted to revisit Aim High, but will settle for another shot at Rack N Roll. :)

[Alex Whipple]

Does anyone have any idea how many Inventor licenses we got with the kit?

[Flimsor]

For some reason whenever i open the link it takes me to a page that says the page doesn't exist. Could someone possible repost the link or the images. thanks

[Justin Montois]

This was last years game hint...

[Andrew Lawrence]

Thanks Brian. You got me all excited... :(

[Flimsor]

Fail, that's probably why the page is gone. I guess i just really can't wait for the 2nd clue.

[Andrew Lawrence]

lol it's alright. Welcome to Chief Delphi, Brian!

[bearbot]

ye it deal wit the titanic sinking heavy feild maybe the field moves NS ROCKS smoke stackes used as minibot tower i think so

[EricH]

Can some of the mods lock this thread so we don't get utterly confused by a 2011 game hint thread when we should be utterly confused by a 2012 game hint thread?