2011 FRC Game Hint #2

[penguinfrk]

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18713

A low resolution picture of the FIRST logo.
There was a post on the game hint 1 thread about the dimensions of the picture (the Comic Sans post :P)

Hmmmm :confused:

[BrendanB]

1. Either all three shapes will be used in the game OR:

2. Something from the 1st FIRST game will be used.

[DarrinMunter]

Were playing Triple-Play, but hanging upside down from tracks.

[GGCO]

20th year anniversary, right? Maybe they're just reminding us this. Or are they telling us that we haven't remembered this in our interpretations of the 1st clue?

[GGCO]

Notice how the shapes are linked together? Kind of like train cars....

[JohnBoucher]

I suspect 3 different shaped game pieces :ahh:

[dodar]

IDK if it's just me but the triangle looks more emphasized in this logo. Maybe we are going back to tetras or some form of triangles for game pieces???

[Josh Fox]

I suspect 3 different shaped game pieces :ahh:
This was my first thought.

[GGCO]

I suspect 3 different shaped game pieces :ahh:

That'd kind of would surprise me. I thought the GDC wanted games that were super simple to understand and decided to use a few game pieces all of which are the same.

Has anyone analyzed the image for hidden content or anything? Any significance that it appears to be a lower resolution?

[dodar]

Has there been any previous games with multiple game pieces of different shapes?

[Robert Cawthon]

Any significance that it appears to be a lower resolution?

Lower resolution may mean faster camera throughput to the driver's station by lowering the resolution of the camera.

[GGCO]

Has there been any previous games with multiple game pieces?

If you're talking about different shaped game pieces, none come to mind. However, there have been game pieces worth different values - like in Lunacy.

[FlyingD662]

Game pieces are my vote. Even though that does seem a bit too straight forward...

[Grim Tuesday]

My guess is recycled game!

[Robert Cawthon]

Game pieces are my vote. Even though that does seem a bit too straight forward...

Sometimes the best hiding places are in plain sight.

EDIT: I like the three game pieces. It covers all the games throughout the year with first.

[Cyberphil]

Hmm. Very interesting. Has anybody found the size out yet? 336x237 I think. 336-237=99. 99 game pieces maybe? Many possibilities.

[Taylor]

Outstanding. I've been looking forward to a game that uses multi-shape game objects. They finally took my advice (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/29429). Good on ya, mates!
Edit: There have been multiple-sized elements - FIRST Frenzy: Raising The Bar, and a couple VRC games.

[Joe G.]

I'm going to guess it's something related to the Archimedes-inspired origins of the FIRST logo that they talked about at championships last year.

Displacement?
Levers?
Archimedes screws?

Hm, 2 out of 3 seem to point to water game...

[SteveGPage]

With what we know from the 1st hint, assuming "locomotion", I think we can look at a couple of possibilities:
1. Trains - we see these symbols linked together
2. FIRST logo - definitely a game celebrating the history of FIRST.
- question - I know there were some minor changes made to the logo that Dean's father originally put together - if so, what year did this particular logo appear.
3. Shapes - multiple game pieces
4. Floor - perhaps not game pieces, but varied surface bumps and obstacles? Certainly would cause "loco" motion driving over them.

Side note- is there a way to change the thread title to say - Hint #2 - read the first 5 pages - so we don't get 250 "beating a dead horse" posts? :)

Steve

[JaneYoung]

Notice how the shapes are linked together? Kind of like train cars....


Connections.

---
Yay! We have another game hint! Yay!

A tote, a trackball, and a tetra! That would be so funny.

[dodar]

Tennis balls and Water game?

http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/blog/busted_racquet/post/Video-Rafael-Nadal-and-Roger-Federer-walk-on-wa?urn=ten-302793

[BIGWILLI2081]

Side note- is there a way to change the thread title to say - Hint #2 - read the first 5 pages - so we don't get 250 "beating a dead horse" posts? :)


That is a fantastic idea

[rsisk]

Probably means that this year's game will be brought to us by FIRST.

Might as well go for the obvious :yikes:

[Robert Cawthon]

How about three surfaces on the playing field? Or maybe two surfaces and a circle in the center spinning slowly? Driving onto the circle woud definately cause 'Loco-Motion'. Or maybe two circles in the gaps of a wall so that the bots have to enter the spinning circle to get past the wall?

[BrendanB]

With what we know from the 1st hint, assuming "locomotion", I think we can look at a couple of possibilities:
1. Trains - we see these symbols linked together
2. FIRST logo - definitely a game celebrating the history of FIRST.
- question - I know there were some minor changes made to the logo that Dean's father originally put together - if so, what year did this particular logo appear.
3. Shapes - multiple game pieces
4. Floor - perhaps not game pieces, but varied surface bumps and obstacles? Certainly would cause "loco" motion driving over them.

Side note- is there a way to change the thread title to say - Hint #2 - read the first 5 pages - so we don't get 250 "beating a dead horse" posts? :)

Steve

Multiple game pieces = cargo.

[skebhners2]

Lets combine two thoughts here.

Game Hint #1 and Game Hint #2. Maybe its that simple. This could verify the concept of having to link to our alliance, due to the fact that the FIRST logo is linking a triangle and square.

[Dustin Shadbolt]

Kind of agree with the multiple game pieces as cargo. Even the rotating center field would be awesome!

[TD912]

Has anyone analyzed the image for hidden content or anything? Any significance that it appears to be a lower resolution?

I doubt FIRST would hide data inside the image, but I'll have a go at it anyway.

It was created in Photoshop CS3, and has a resolution of 336x237 @ 100dpi when printed. It was created on December 16th, 2010 at 11:51:07. Other than that, there is no other EXIF or IPTC or JFIF metadata. No attached keywords. Raising the contrast and brightness don't really do anything out of the ordinary. Also, compared to other FIRST logos, none of the shapes are any larger or smaller than normal. I don't think any of this is really important.

And somewhat off topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography

[synth3tk]

Multiple game pieces = cargo.
Million-dollar idea right here.

We might act as trains, having to load up our bots, then dumping them at a target. Going further with the "locomotion/train" idea, the bots may only be restricted to certain "tracks" or "lanes", depending on criteria.

[engunneer]

I'm going with skebhners2 here. Robots linked together. The fun question:

Are you linked to your partner, or to your opponent? :yikes:

[EJB2081]

Yeah im gonna have to say this one seems like its a linkage clue....

just going obvious here, these one seems to be the most blunt clue yet

[JesseK]

Cones have a square base, a rounded shape, and a triangular side-profile view.

And they stack.

Lord help us all...

[BIGWILLI2081]

Lets combine two thoughts here.

Game Hint #1 and Game Hint #2. Maybe its that simple. This could verify the concept of having to link to our alliance, due to the fact that the FIRST logo is linking a triangle and square.

also, the triangle is red and the square is blue, possibly representing the red and blue alliances, so maybe the game is a huge game of chasing the opponent around and attempting to link onto them. However that doesn't seem like the most high scoring/exciting game, so maybe that's just the end game.

[GGCO]

Yeah im gonna have to say this one seems like its a linkage clue....

just going obvious here, these one seems to be the most blunt clue yet

That or a cargo clue. BTW, When this thing gets to 5 pages, someone should do a summary of all the activity.

[SteveGPage]

- question - I know there were some minor changes made to the logo that Dean's father originally put together - if so, what year did this particular logo appear.

Steve

Answering my own question. This style logo appeared in 2005, with Triple Play - which was also released on January 8th.

Maybe an updated version of that game. 3D tic-tac-toe was certainly easy for audiences to comprehend!

[AllenGregoryIV]

The image on the hint page has dimensions 315x223 while the actual image that is only labeled as logo.jpg has dimension 336x237.

I don't know if that means anything just seems odd that they would specifically change it and only make it a tad smaller on the hint page.

[dodar]

I do like the opponents being linked together idea. The logo has red linked with blue/a triangle linked with a square. Now "linked" could be taken a few ways: linked like 2009, linked with a long rope, maybe even a bungee cord, or the game field could be split in 3 sections and alliances are 3v3 but pitted against another team 1v1.

[Natesbug73]

Red and blue next to eachother reminds me of 3D glasses. ::safety::

[BrendanB]

Or what if we have to put the cargo into certain containers (train cars) and then link them together. Points for types of cargo in the cars times how many cars are connected together.

[synth3tk]

Red and blue next to eachother reminds me of 3D glasses. ::safety::
I'm sure I speak for a majority of the teams, volunteers, and spectators, when I say: I hope not!!!

[skebhners2]

also, the triangle is red and the square is blue, possibly representing the red and blue alliances, so maybe the game is a huge game of chasing the opponent around and attempting to link onto them. However that doesn't seem like the most high scoring/exciting game, so maybe that's just the end game.

Also, It could represent our alliances linking together. Maybe witht he though of each team in the alliance performs a different task to let the other robot continue.

[Robert Cawthon]

Perhaps a reference to coopertition? Your alliance cannot do something till the other alliance has done something? That way the play is linked together.

[skebhners2]

Perhaps a reference to coopertition? Your alliance cannot do something till the other alliance has done something? That way the play is linked together.

Exactly what I just stated above. It makes perfect sense.

[JaneYoung]

Perhaps a reference to coopertition? Your alliance cannot do something till the other alliance has done something? That way the play is linked together.

How would scoring work?

[Grim Tuesday]

Cones have a square base, a rounded shape, and a triangular side-profile view.

And they stack.

Lord help us all...

How can we work in locomotion?

IMO cones are a great game piece, they also fit in the 20th anniversary, with the stack attack reference.

[Jared Russell]

Cones have a square base, a rounded shape, and a triangular side-profile view.

And they stack.

Lord help us all...

And there are two traffic cones visible in this picture of Dave's summer vacation... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36002)

[Jack Jones]

Lets combine two thoughts here.

Game Hint #1 and Game Hint #2. Maybe its that simple. This could verify the concept of having to link to our alliance, due to the fact that the FIRST logo is linking a triangle and square.

Hint #1: Locomotion
Hint #2: A Logo

#1 + #2 = Logomotion

My guess: It's a shooting game but with moving FIRST Logo targets.

[GaryVoshol]

Multiple game pieces = cargo.

"Cargo" was a newly-defined term in FLL rules this year.

It seems to me that they have violated their own logo rules here. Maybe a game with no rules penalties? :ahh: We could only hope.

[806Blacksmith]

2. Something from the 1st FIRST game will be used.

I was thinking the same thing :) Something along those lines would be possible. It would maybe be some recreation of the 1st FIRST game since it is their anniversairy. Another thing is that it could be a linakge game because of "Little Eva" and her song "Loco - Motion". Possibly all teams on the alliance's robots are connected together to do some sort of race, or an obstacle course, considering Robot locomotion is the study of how to design robot appendages and control mechanisms to allow robots to move fluidly and efficiently.



Hope to give some people ideas :D

[pandamonium]

Introducing the White alliance

actually I am going to go with the game piece idea

Tetras, totes and tubes-Balls

[skebhners2]

How would scoring work?

Scoring could be based on teamwork, until a divided end game begins.

[rabridges]

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18713

A low resolution picture of the FIRST logo.
There was a post on the game hint 1 thread about the dimensions of the picture (the Comic Sans post :P)

Hmmmm :confused:

In the first hint of little Eva, her face, shoulder and pole make a triangle. Her buttons are circles and the picture is itself is almost square.

[synth3tk]

And there are two traffic cones visible in this picture of Dave's summer vacation... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36002)
And now we're flying somewhere...

[TD912]

Maybe it has to do with Coopertition? Maybe you have to work with the opposite alliance?

Or maybe linking and unlinking to a rail?

Linking to another robot? Meaning some part(s) of the robot may extend outside the bumper zone?

A third alliance...? (Don't think so)

Hmm...

EDIT: By the time I typed and posted this, it seems a bunch of other people also posted my ideas. Sorry if I repeated things.

[skebhners2]

Maybe it has to do with Coopertition? Maybe you have to work with the opposite alliance?

Or maybe linking and unlinking to a rail?

Linking to another robot? Meaning some part(s) of the robot may extend outside the bumper zone?

A third alliance...? (Don't think so)

Hmm...

Though, a 3rd Alliance-White Alliance, would be quite interesting...

[BrendanB]

Haha! The two plastic totes we get with the kit could be a game piece! :rolleyes: :p

[Robert Cawthon]

Perhaps a reference to coopertition? Your alliance cannot do something till the other alliance has done something? That way the play is linked together.

How would scoring work?

For example, there is a ball dispenser in the middle of the field. One set of red balls and one set of blue balls. Neither set of balls is released until a red button and a blue button is pushed unless one of them is pushed in autonomous mode, then the both drop. I am sure others will have better ideas, but this is just spur of the moment.

[Grim Tuesday]

I doubt that they would ever actively link robots, considering how many simply end up not working, possibly crippling an alliance. Maybe the linking is metaphorical--your score is tied to that of your opponents:

An extremely coopertition heavy game.

[BrendanB]

I doubt that they would ever actively link robots, considering how many simply end up not working, possibly crippling an alliance. Maybe the linking is metaphorical--your score is tied to that of your opponents:

An extremely coopertition heavy game.

Linking field objects is an idea.

[thefro526]

Crap. There was a second hint after all, looks like I was wrong... :o

I really, really, really hope this means that there are going to be multiple scoring objects or objectives. That would be too cool.

Or another Alliance. That'd be cool too.

[EJB2081]

also, the triangle is red and the square is blue, possibly representing the red and blue alliances, so maybe the game is a huge game of chasing the opponent around and attempting to link onto them. However that doesn't seem like the most high scoring/exciting game, so maybe that's just the end game.

also theres the white circle in between so maybe thats a common link between red and blue alliance.....

one blue and one red link up?

[Robert Cawthon]

The problem with three alliances is that two of the alliances tend to team up against the third, especially if the third is a real good alliance. I don't think FIRST really wants this. Unless, of course, the game is designed to prevent that in some way.

EDIT: Of course, they may do it for one year just to get us out of our comfort zone.

[pandamonium]

Lets assume that there are three different game pieces. would they be worth the same amount of points? Would one be a multiplier? Would one be used only in autonomous mode, What would the Human Players do?

One human player on each alliance handles balls, totes, and triangles.

Would they have separate scoring areas, or one container, or we would need to score them in the opposing alliances tailor...

[EJB2081]

this is not my idea but it needs to be passed along, it actually belongs to a teammate named Michael K.

stack cones on top of a pillar, maybe even as an end game

or the more you stack on top the more points, also gives descoring a possibility

just fueling the fire

[Mike Rizzo]

I was thinking along the Idea of 3 alliances myself, I find it unlikely but it could be where there are 3 periods, red + blue, then blue + white, then white + red

Where each alliance links up, for part of the match, down side is it may become confusing and we’ll have to make another set of bumpers :p

Like a 3 legged robot race :p

[BJC]

Opposite alliance cooperation is unlikely because the GDC is trying to make FIRST more sport-like.

The first game hint was the cover of Little Eva's greatest hits album.
The second game hint is the logo of FIRST.

My vote goes to the GDC reusing old game functions.
It's going to be one "loco" game!

[cbeavers6790]

1. Either all three shapes will be used in the game OR:

2. Something from the 1st FIRST game will be used.

i think the 1st one is a possibility becuase they have used it in FTC games with goals and those types of things though it could be game pieces

[EJB2081]

isnt this year the 20th anniversary so arent they trying to celebrate or whatever?

maybe the three pieces (triangle circle square) are old pieces?

circle = tubes from Rack N' Roll
triangle = tetras from Triple Play
squares = Goal from breakaway or maybe even the tower

[D.Allred]

Cones have a square base, a rounded shape, and a triangular side-profile view.

And they stack.

Lord help us all...

I love the traffic cone idea! Although, they would probably be crushed after a few qualification rounds.

How about another obstacle course game. That would definitely give us some "loco" motion!

[jerry w]

Hint #1: Locomotion
Hint #2: A Logo

#1 + #2 = Logomotion

My guess: It's a shooting game but with moving FIRST Logo targets.

WOW i like this connection! LogoMotion would mean that field elements shaped like the logo are movable. Pushing the "LOGOS" into a scoring zone would get the points. With more logos than robots, it will be tough to hang onto a single piece. Simple scoring by counting the pieces in each zone. Simple setup.
Lots of pushing!!!

[JesseK]

I love the traffic cone idea! Although, they would probably be crushed after a few qualification rounds.

That's what was said in 2007 with the inner tubes. It was true, too -- many a tube was demolished. Yet the tubes were cheap enough to enable having spares, as are most cones.

[arizonafoxx]

If you look closely at the picture, there is no white circle, only shadows that alludes to a circle being there. Maybe the absence of the circle means no balls this year.

[cbeavers6790]

If you look closely at the picture, there is no white circle, only shadows that alludes to a circle being there. Maybe the absence of the circle means no balls this year.

well they have a habit of switching from a ball to a non-ball piece every other year and i am thinking we have the three differnet game pieces with three different shaped goals and possibly in order to goal you must put a red triangle in first than a circle then a square or some order that must make an alliance plan combine their efforts

[arizonafoxx]

An upside down cone could be a funnel. Maybe the game piece is small cubes and the goal is a round funnel. The trick is to get a square through a round hole.

[smurfgirl]

This one doesn't give me much to overanalyze - it fits in with my previous theory that this year's game will pay tribute to previous years as FIRST celebrates its 20th season. Or the linked aspect of the logo is related to the first hint which we got "Locomotion" out of.

Maybe I've just realized that I'm never going to guess the game from the game hint and that even if I did guess the whole thing, it wouldn't make that much of a difference. I did guess the date of the release of the second hint correctly, though!

[cbeavers6790]

maybe they will take an idea from an FTC game two years ago with three levels (each one of the three shapes) and the lowest is the least points highest is the most. they might also take it up a notch and instead of just using the same piece (hockey pucks in FTCs case) and make us put the different shaped pieces in their corressponding goal.

[CassCity2081]

circle = tubes from Rack N' Roll
triangle = tetras from Triple Play
squares = Goal from breakaway or maybe even the tower

Also the circle could represent a ball as in trackball from overdrive, moon rock from lunacy, or an aim high ball.

I also think that the square would have to be a game piece rather than gust a tower, maybe has something to do with the train idea.

[funggiss]

1. Either all three shapes will be used in the game OR:

2. Something from the 1st FIRST game will be used.

the first game had tennis balls and a sand box:ahh:
tethered robots
and you had to collect the tennis balls and hold them

[Tetraman]

Balls, Tetras, and Bins.

Bring it on!

(Goes to design some new games in sketchup)

[rcmolloy]

Anyone else have a severe headache right now?

[Andy Grady]

I will say it because no one else has. Red, white, and blue alliance. 2 v 2 v 2.

[cbeavers6790]

i know i am just spitting out ideas but maybe the piece will be the actual first logo and you have to put it in a slot that is a track or conveyor that pulls it back to the human player who can give it back to a robot ( think lunacy and breakaway combined)

[Robert Cawthon]

This one doesn't give me much to overanalyze - it fits in with my previous theory that this year's game will pay tribute to previous years as FIRST celebrates its 20th season. Or the linked aspect of the logo is related to the first hint which we got "Locomotion" out of.

Maybe I've just realized that I'm never going to guess the game from the game hint and that even if I did guess the whole thing, it wouldn't make that much of a difference. I did guess the date of the release of the second hint correctly, though!

If you aren't overanalyzing the second hint, you aren't trying hard enough! :D

Granted, it doesn't do much good, other than reving up your brain cells for kick off, but its still fun!

[cbeavers6790]

Anyone else have a severe headache right now?

I will say it because no one else has. Red, white, and blue alliance. 2 v 2 v 2.

i dont have a headache it actually went away because i got so happy and excited about the new game hint
and to andy grady- i dont think they would do that becuase that would make the whole alliance thing into just a pair thing and plus it would screw up the field (try and fit a triangular field into most places and still have room to put stands) also if they are saluting first they wont switch a thing that has been around for quite a while

[smurfgirl]

If you aren't overanalyzing the second hint, you aren't trying hard enough! :D

Granted, it doesn't do much good, other than reving up your brain cells for kick off, but its still fun!

I've got a million other things going on this week so I'm saving up as many brain cells for Kickoff as possible :p

[thefro526]

the first game had tennis balls and a sand box:ahh:
tethered robots
and you had to collect the tennis balls and hold them

Close - The field wasn't a Sand Box, it was covered with Corn.

Still would like to see a re-make of Maize Craze though.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Ahhh, minutes to late to have this be an original suggestion, but still. Even if all three shapes are significant to the game, game pieces aren't the only important parts of the field. Just look at the BUMPs. I'm horrible at predictions, though, so here are some random ideas:

Circles: balls, rods, tall hollow cylinders, racetracks(ish)(again?), discs/frisbees
Triangles: pyramids, funnels, upside down pyramid goals, ramps, teeter-totter ramps, aerobees
Squares: blocks, boxes, steps/stairs, bricks,

Or.... A load of really funny shaped inner tubes or PVC rings that look exactly like the logo.

One thing I'm pretty sure of is we're not doing balls again, though. We've done balls three years in a row now, so I think the GDC has played that out for a little while.

<--------Pointless unrelated rambling below this point-------->

Actually, I like pyramid goals and balls. Different size balls. And maybe you get a multiplier based on how full or empty the goal is, so packing efficiency and the order you put things in is important. A vibratory robot to settle the balls in the goal might be important.

[BJC]

What if tennis balls were scattered across the field similar to corn of the first FRC game. Then there could be other game elements which would act like the tennis balls of the first FRC game. That could be very challenging.

[alectronic]

I will say it because no one else has. Red, white, and blue alliance. 2 v 2 v 2.

I think this would be interesting from a strategy point too; what if one from each of the 3 alliances was on each side? So a red, white and blue on one side, red white and blue on the other.
Mixin up the strategies and everything. ("Things are not as they appear")

[JaneYoung]

I will say it because no one else has. Red, white, and blue alliance. 2 v 2 v 2.

How would that work as in placement?

Or... could the 3rd alliance serve a different purpose? Same goals, same game, different purpose?

[Mike Rizzo]

I'm not sure what year the FIRST Logo was created but looking at the game history page it was not used on the game manuals until 1998 Ladder Logic, not sure if that is actually relevant either

EDIT: I see the logo was used the 1st year but it was black and white, wasn't used again and in color until 1998 Ladder Logic

[Chuck Glick]

Hey... wasn't this image first used in 2005? ;)

Note: if anyone posted something like this, sorry for the double post.

[Taylor]

For example, there is a ball dispenser in the middle of the field. One set of red balls and one set of blue balls. Neither set of balls is released until a red button and a blue button is pushed unless one of them is pushed in autonomous mode, then the both drop. I am sure others will have better ideas, but this is just spur of the moment.

The FRC version of the Prisoner's Dilemma? I like it.

----

The Red button is accessible to the Blue alliance; the Blue button is accessible to the Red alliance. If the Red button is pressed during auto, all Red game pieces are released at the start of teleop. If the Blue button is pressed during auto, all Blue pieces are released at the start of teleop. If both are pressed, all game pieces are instantly released.
Otherwise, the game pieces are inaccessible until 30 seconds after the start of teleop.

[cbeavers6790]

maybe not three alliances but three zones (possibly levels) and each robot has to do a differnet task on each and there would be limits on how many robots in each zone ( like last year) and in each zone there is a different shaped goal and maybe the middle zone raised so if you score there its more points

[Tetraman]

How would that work as in placement?

Or... could the 3rd alliance serve a different purpose? Same goals, same game, different purpose?

White Blue Red
| Field |
| Field |
| Field |
| Field |
White Blue Red

Maybe each of the 6 teams are working together, but they score points seperate into their Alliance? Kinda Diabolical Dynamics.

[dodar]

How would that work as in placement?

Or... could the 3rd alliance serve a different purpose? Same goals, same game, different purpose?

Or what if there is still 6 robots on the field and still distinguishable red and blue alliances but there are 2 robots that are like the white/invisible circle in the logo and they arent part of either alliance but can play and score for both. Wouldnt that be a change from the norm? lol. Red+/-White vs. Blue+/-White! And if they kept the scoring close to the same system as last year, the White/free-lancers would get the combined score. This would make the competition alot higher because the red and blues would want to win and the white/free-lancers would want the highest score possible.

[cbeavers6790]

The FRC version of the Prisoner's Dilemma? I like it.

----

The Red button is accessible to the Blue alliance; the Blue button is accessible to the Red alliance. If the Red button is pressed during auto, all Red game pieces are released at the start of teleop. If the Blue button is pressed during auto, all Blue pieces are released at the start of teleop. If both are pressed, all game pieces are instantly released.
Otherwise, the game pieces are inaccessible until 30 seconds after the start of teleop.

interesting maybe during auto they make it so there are two drops one for each alliance and the opposing allilance robots goal in that zone is to block the other robot (last year blocking goals)

[rabridges]

Maybe there are no alliances, maybe three different fields with three robots.

[JesseK]

Maybe there are no alliances, maybe three different fields with three robots.

Teams would have to have fewer qualification rounds to compensate for the additional strain on the schedule that fewer concurrent matches would cause. We already get too few chances to have iterative success, in my opinion.

[Taylor]

I really doubt they'll decrease the 3 teams per alliance structure. One of the best ways to promote an activity or sport is to have a lot of success. Sending 3 champions (plus chairman's plus rookie all-star) home after every event helps raise visibility in the schools & communities; also the automatic invites for 5 teams from each regional to the Championships helps boost the number of quality participants, and by extension, excitement level.

[dag0620]

Just finished skimming (This wasn't hear at Lunch :()

Ummm wow This was not what I was looking for in a hint. I can say this is probably the first Red Herring that be came a hint :P.

In all honesty, I gotta go with the gut on the past pages were more then likely looking at another Smashup Game (First Frenzy V2 If you will).

I like the idea of those are the game pieces, as It could be (Triangle as Tetrad, The Circle could be a number of things) but I don;t believe we've used the square Since Frenzy.

Or It could simply mean that yes it is a FIRST Game, and I at the moment am sticking with that.

[Robert Cawthon]

I really doubt they'll decrease the 3 teams per alliance structure. One of the best ways to promote an activity or sport is to have a lot of success. Sending 3 champions (plus chairman's plus rookie all-star) home after every event helps raise visibility in the schools & communities; also the automatic invites for 5 teams from each regional to the Championships helps boost the number of quality participants, and by extension, excitement level.

Not only that, the teams live for the chance to see their creation in operation. Win, lose, or draw, it can be exciting to watch your baby compete. (Of course, winning is a lot more fun!) And the more often you run, the better!

[dag0620]

Earlier Someone Mentioned How if you combine the three shapes together you get a cone.

I find that while a little far fetched with this clue, and intriguing Idea. It has not been done before in a shape, and could be relatively hard to work with (depending on how it was set-up and used).

Any Ideas on this theory?

[Tetraman]

REMINDER: The Blue Square in the logo does not actually represent a cube. It's actually a Cylinder.

[DMetalKong]

I'm not sure what year the FIRST Logo was created but looking at the game history page it was not used on the game manuals until 1998 Ladder Logic, not sure if that is actually relevant either

EDIT: I see the logo was used the 1st year but it was black and white, wasn't used again and in color until 1998 Ladder Logic

Referencing this page (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18620#).

The logo used in Ladder Logic looks similar but appears to have a different aspect ratio. Triple Play looks to be the first game where the logo is the same.

[Tetraman]

Referencing this page (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18620#).

The logo used in Ladder Logic looks similar but appears to have a different aspect ratio. Triple Play looks to be the first game where the logo is the same.

The logo was redesigned for the 2006 season.

[pandamonium]

"Tetraman REMINDER: The Blue Square in the logo does not actually represent a cube. It's actually a Cylinder."

explain?

[SteveGPage]

"Tetraman REMINDER: The Blue Square in the logo does not actually represent a cube. It's actually a Cylinder."

explain?

The short answer is - looking at a cylinder from the side, it looks like a square.

The long answer deals with an animated video that was shown at World, where the various shapes were used to demonstrate concepts by Archimedes. I don't know if that video is available or not.

Hope this helps!

Steve

[Erik_2505]

So for anyone coming into this thread right now: we know nothing.

[Tetraman]

REMINDER: The Blue Square in the logo does not actually represent a cube. It's actually a Cylinder."

explain?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_39NGKVWYg3o/SpVIE9ABY7I/AAAAAAAAAkQ/x1oh6gTjosU/s320/Picture+3.png

BAM

The logo was created from proof of the Archenemies Principal. (I think I got this right) The volume of a cylinder is the same as a Sphere and Cone of the same height and width.

[thefro526]

REMINDER: The Blue Square in the logo does not actually represent a cube. It's actually a Cylinder.

I totally forgot about this little fact.

Maybe it's a reference to the Column in the first hint?

[DMetalKong]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_39NGKVWYg3o/SpVIE9ABY7I/AAAAAAAAAkQ/x1oh6gTjosU/s320/Picture+3.png

BAM

The logo was created from proof of the Archenemies Principal. (I think I got this right) The volume of a cylinder is the same as a Sphere and Cone of the same height and width.

Perhaps the game will have to do with balancing objects? Flashback to 2001 (10th anniversary incidentally) where there were no alliances so all of the teams were cooperating?

Edit: Diabolical Dynamics sounds like it could be related to Loco Motion.

[skebhners2]

Perhaps the game will have to do with balancing objects? Flashback to 2001 (10th anniversary incidentally) where there were no alliances so all of the teams were cooperating?

Edit: Diabolical Dynamics sounds like it could be related to Loco Motion.

But that has alot to do with the FTC challenge this year, ballancing on boards.

[jmanela]

I totally forgot about this little fact.

Maybe it's a reference to the Column in the first hint?

and maybe a few of those columns would hold up a second story structure of some sort that was mentioned in the hint 1 thread.

[Tetraman]

I don't know where or how to set up huge pillars on the game field. If they are too wide they block vision of the field from a player station or audiance standpoint. Grr...

Dave Lavery where are you? Explain this mess to us! Pleeeeeeease...

[rabridges]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_39NGKVWYg3o/SpVIE9ABY7I/AAAAAAAAAkQ/x1oh6gTjosU/s320/Picture+3.png

BAM

The logo was created from proof of the Archenemies Principal. (I think I got this right) The volume of a cylinder is the same as a Sphere and Cone of the same height and width.

Here is a video FIRSTWorldTube posted May 6, 2010 on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuSDypGi_IA

[synth3tk]

I don't know where or how to set up huge pillars on the game field. If they are too wide they block vision of the field from a player station or audiance standpoint. Grr...

Dave Lavery where are you? Explain this mess to us! Pleeeeeeease...
He will... in 4 days.




















.

[Josh Fox]

Dave Lavery where are you? Explain this mess to us! Pleeeeeeease...
I'm pretty sure a Dave Lavery "explanation" will only leave us more confused.

[SteveJanesch]

I'm going with the lyric "now that you can do it let's make a chain" and the fact that the objects in the logo are linked. I think the game pieces will have to be linked/connected/joined together for scoring. Still two alliances, still 3v3.

I'm not a fan of 'bots on opposing alliances linked to each other. I don't think pushing/pulling matches would be an interesting game, and not much strategy is involved (torque wins, and that's it).

How 'bout this - each alliance attaches game pieces from the far end of the field to one alliance member who drags it back to the home zone. Endgame bonus for the other two alliance members climbing on the train.

[Robert Cawthon]

If they are too wide they block vision of the field from a player station or audiance standpoint.

Depends on how tall the columns are. 18 inches wouldn't be much different than the humps last year.

[Chris is me]

Has no one else noticed that these shapes are ripped straight from the 20th logo and don't look like the normal FIRST logo? Seriously, I looked through the thread and couldn't find that.

I laughed when this hint come out at just how little it tells you. :P

[elemental]

I laughed when this hint come out at just how little it tells you. :P

I showed the hint to my sister and she yelled "How does that help!!!" at my computer. :D

[Jeffy]

With talk of another alliance, I can't help but think about "House robots":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lJz-o56uRA

[Tetraman]

Has no one else noticed that these shapes are ripped straight from the 20th logo and don't look like the normal FIRST logo? Seriously, I looked through the thread and couldn't find that.

Hmm? It looks like the same logo to me.

http://usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2011_Assets/logo.jpg
http://myweb.wit.edu/firstrobotics/First%20Logo.png

[Bjenks548]

I thought of an interesting idea, combining the idea of Cooperation and balance, what if the alliance each of two goals. Both goals count the same to that alliances score, but if 1 red and 1 blue goal have equal points in them there is a large multiplier on those goals.

[Chris is me]

Hmm? It looks like the same logo to me.

http://usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2011_Assets/logo.jpg
http://myweb.wit.edu/firstrobotics/First%20Logo.png

Ah, that's odd. I always thought the FIRST Logo normally had a black outline. Nevermind then!

[EricH]

I think this might be significant...and I've read the thread and haven't seen it.

Why is the text that is normally right below the logo missing? No FTC. No FLL. No FRC. No FIRST. Normally, that's right below the shapes. Very few times is it missing (typically when there isn't space for it, like on a Firefox tab).

From KarenH: the game name might have the word "FIRST" in it.

The last time that happened, to my knowledge, was 2004, FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar. I wonder if they've diabolically twisted that game...

Oh, and I like the cone idea. It's been suggested quite a bit lately...

[pandamonium]

each robot will be pulling a trailer that is the goal for the opposing alliance. One trailer for circles, one for squares, one for rectangles.

[Robert Cawthon]

each robot will be pulling a trailer that is the goal for the opposing alliance. One trailer for circles, one for squares, one for rectangles.

Noooooo! Pleeeeaaassssseeee! No trailers! Oh, I hope not! Especially on carpet! No backing up without jackknifing! At least not without a lot of practice!

[Kailey1023bx]

im so confused! D:

[rabridges]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_39NGKVWYg3o/SpVIE9ABY7I/AAAAAAAAAkQ/x1oh6gTjosU/s320/Picture+3.png

BAM

The logo was created from proof of the Archenemies Principal. (I think I got this right) The volume of a cylinder is the same as a Sphere and Cone of the same height and width.

I think this might be significant...and I've read the thread and haven't seen it.

Why is the text that is normally right below the logo missing? No FTC. No FLL. No FRC. No FIRST. Normally, that's right below the shapes. Very few times is it missing (typically when there isn't space for it, like on a Firefox tab).

From KarenH: the game name might have the word "FIRST" in it.

The last time that happened, to my knowledge, was 2004, FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar. I wonder if they've diabolically twisted that game...

Oh, and I like the cone idea. It's been suggested quite a bit lately...



The Logo without FIRST below it is 315X223, if you subtract this to numbers you get 92. Being that the first FIRST game was in 1992, reinventing the first game with more difficulty. And possible the FIRST could be in the name of the game, FIRST Loco-Motion.

[JaneYoung]

The Logo without FIRST below it is 315X223, if you subtract this to numbers you get 92. Being that the first FIRST game was in 1992, reinventing the first game with more difficulty. And possible the FIRST could be in the name of the game, FIRST Loco-Motion.

Logo Motion. :)

(Name inspired by this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=990982&postcount=853) post.) Even if it is wrong, I am so singing this all season. Come on baby, do the logo motion. It rocks!

[dag0620]

Has no one else noticed that these shapes are ripped straight from the 20th logo and don't look like the normal FIRST logo? Seriously, I looked through the thread and couldn't find that.

I laughed when this hint come out at just how little it tells you. :P

A small group of us have been cleaning the shop in time for kick-off. Today I went home to get my little sis off the bus.Checked CD, saw the hint, thought the same things as everyone else. I went back to school to the shop and told everyone about it.

They would not believe me! Only until I showed them did they believe me!

[rabridges]

Logo Motion. :)

FIRST Logo-Motion sounds nice too, along with FIRST Craze Motion.

[iblis432]

Red and blue next to eachother reminds me of 3D glasses. ::safety::

I actually came up with something related when I messed with the image a little. This is what I got (note, this was not 'hidden' in the image, i used a fragment filter).

I was thinking something 3d. Not only are red and blue 3d related, but the image itself is made to look like the three shapes are 3d. Could someone check the colors of standard red/blue 3d glasses and the colors in this image? After all, the color index only carries 4 colors in it in this. Plus, the last hint was produced by 'dimension' records. It took this image i made to make me think of it.

[dlavery]

Dave Lavery where are you? Explain this mess to us! Pleeeeeeease...

I wonder if it could be...

Nah, that would just be way too...

Never mind.






.

[iblis432]

I wonder if it could be...

Nah, that would just be way too...

Never mind.






.

you wouldn't. haha. Now you have me even more confused. :confused:

Judging by this, I would guess that we have hit the nail on the head somewhere, but where? :confused:

[EricH]

Well, he did ask for that, Dave.

I'll ask for another hint in, oh, about 4 days; 6 if you're really feeling pressed for time to finish that rendering.;)

[Beta Version]

combining the first clue with this you get... "logo-motion!" Each member of the alliance gets a circle, triangle, or square. The first team to use all three of these (in the game format, such as scoring, placing, connect, whatever) properly wins!

[Bjenks548]

I wonder if it could be...

Nah, that would just be way too...

Never mind.






.
At least that's one thing cleared up, thanks for the help Dave!






.

[Robert Cawthon]

you wouldn't. haha. Now you have me even more confused. :confused:

Judging by this, I would guess that we have hit the nail on the head somewhere, but where? :confused:

The nail or your thumb? :rolleyes:

[Andrew Lawrence]

Perhaps a reference to coopertition? Your alliance cannot do something till the other alliance has done something? That way the play is linked together.

I doubt any of you play video games, but there is one that came out quite recently (Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks), and parts of the game consist of you controlling 2 to 3 characters, each separated by walls, where you have to have a player do something to open up a passage for another character, and so on.

The point is that it would be completely logical and quite easy to create a game field similar to Breakaway, cut into 3 pieces, but unlike Breakaway, has walls that prevents the robots from moving through each section.

So imagine this: A game split into 3 separate "fields", each with a robot from each alliance in each field. Your robot would have to find a way to get balls over to the next side, or be able to catch the balls coming over and score points with them.

Interesting idea, huh!

[synth3tk]

I wonder if it could be...

Nah, that would just be way too...

Never mind.






.
I can safely say I saw a response along these lines coming from a mile away.

[bearbot]

2849 Therory

1.THeir will be train tracks that we move on
2.this year game will have a reverse mode (switch antonomus and tele op time )
3.The playing pices r a triangle, circle and square
4.yoou hav to sort them objet and untangle them and put the in locomotive trains (carts) the drive to the next oone
OR robot hook together to pick up pieces to help the coopertive bonus at the actcual compettion

[iblis432]

So imagine this: A game split into 3 separate "fields", each with a robot from each alliance in each field. Your robot would have to find a way to get balls over to the next side, or be able to catch the balls coming over and score points with them.

Interesting idea, huh!

Or howabout the three games that were voted favorite in the 20th anniversery poll? Your robot has to be able to compete in a subversion of each one. :yikes:

The GDC will have made the miniture ones throughout off season, then when the results of the poll come in, they give you those three games. That's why the manual hasn't even be released for encrypted download yet. XD I can dream can't I?

[arizonafoxx]

I doubt any of you play video games, but there is one that came out quite recently (Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks), and parts of the game consist of you controlling 2 to 3 characters, each separated by walls, where you have to have a player do something to open up a passage for another character, and so on.

The point is that it would be completely logical and quite easy to create a game field similar to Breakaway, cut into 3 pieces, but unlike Breakaway, has walls that prevents the robots from moving through each section.

So imagine this: A game split into 3 separate "fields", each with a robot from each alliance in each field. Your robot would have to find a way to get balls over to the next side, or be able to catch the balls coming over and score points with them.

Interesting idea, huh!

I like this idea of the separation with walls but I would much rather have some inverted track above so you could transition from one side of the field to the other

[Are Jay]

A member on our team brought up the idea that maybe this hint could be that there are going to be three alliances... :/

[Andrew Lawrence]

Or howabout the three games that were voted favorite in the 20th anniversery poll? Your robot has to be able to compete in a subversion of each one. :yikes:

The GDC will have made the miniture ones throughout off season, then when the results of the poll come in, they give you those three games. That's why the manual hasn't even be released for encrypted download yet. XD I can dream can't I?

Good Idea! That would be fun!!!

WHEN WILL WE HAVE AN ATR COMPETITION??? (All-Terrain Robot) I've always wanted a field with water on the floor, about 2 to 3 feet deep with floating islands, and rocky, mountainous goals, up high in the mountains!! You could have 4 types of robots: Robots who can go in the water, those who travel on land and jump from island to island, those who climb the mountain, and my team's robot: RoboCopter, the flying robot!!!

[Duke461]

I honestly don't think that the FIRST logo is hinting at linking in the sense of the field and alliances. The only possibilities for linking would be the game objects themselves. My random guess that I came up with over the summer would be that they're going to combine an aspect of every past game. The linking in terms of locomotion along with the symbols in the FIRST logo linking together support my theory of linking all the games together. The logo could also be trying to remind of us its the 20th anniversary, which supports my idea further. But eh, who knows? (besides Dave Lavery and the GDC :yikes: ) On a side note, some of the ideas have been extremely far-fetched; let's try and stay a little rational here :rolleyes:

[Andrew Lawrence]

A member on our team brought up the idea that maybe this hint could be that there are going to be three alliances... :/

3 alliances with 2 teams on each? Or the standard 3 teams? That would be interesting!

[Are Jay]

3 alliances with 2 teams on each? Or the standard 3 teams? That would be interesting!

He brought up the idea of the 3 alliances with 3 teams on each. and the teams would be the normal Red and Blue with an additional White...

[EricH]

3 alliances with 2 teams on each? Or the standard 3 teams? That would be interesting!
More than you know.

3-alliance (OK, 3 single teams) games lead to the 2-alliance games we know and love. Seems that the "weaker" teams kept pairing up against the "strongest" team in a given match. 1 strong team isn't quite a match for 2 weak teams, so the strong teams lost quite a lot. It could not be proved that the weaker teams colluded/allied...but it couldn't be disproved either. The result? Alliances were required starting in 1999.

[Duke461]

3 alliances with 2 teams on each? Or the standard 3 teams? That would be interesting!

this was discussed earlier in the thread (i know its a huge thread but try and read it anyway before posting).
The response to the notion went as follows:
The problem with three alliances is that two of the alliances tend to team up against the third, especially if the third is a real good alliance. I don't think FIRST really wants this. Unless, of course, the game is designed to prevent that in some way.

EDIT: Of course, they may do it for one year just to get us out of our comfort zone.
.....which i completely 100% agree with

[Andrew Lawrence]

this was discussed earlier in the thread (i know its a huge thread but try and read it anyway before posting).
The response to the notion went as follows:

.....which i completely 100% agree with

You know what would be fun? A game on a GIGANTIC field, with 2 alliances, with 10 teams on each alliance! That would mix up the games A LOT!!!

[SuperBK]

First hint - locomotion
second hint - interlocking pieces
conclusion - train game

[GGCO]

First hint - locomotion
second hint - interlocking pieces
conclusion - train game

Spot on.

[Tetraman]

I wonder if it could be...

Nah, that would just be way too...

Never mind.






.

....

..

....yea. :rolleyes:

Alrighty. I'll post some Sketchup fields tonight of some ideas.

[Andrew Lawrence]

First hint - locomotion
second hint - interlocking pieces
conclusion - train game

I'm hoping though that it's interlocking GAME pieces, not robots. Interlocking robots would be interesting as an "end of game" mission, but for the whole game? That's rediculous!

[quinxorin]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet:

The logo is missing the TM sign in the lower right hand corner. All the official FIRST Logos either have an (R) or a TM.

[smistthegreat]

The two most logical guesses I've seen so far are:
Train Game: Locomotion and interlocked shapes. Not too far of a stretch.
Something with cones: Square base, circular shape, triangle profile.
Trains of cones!?!?!?

P.S. The gdc has never given us the most logical hints, so this is all shooting in the dark, of course.

[Andrew Lawrence]

The two most logical guesses I've seen so far are:
Train Game: Locomotion and interlocked shapes. Not too far of a stretch.
Something with cones: Square base, circular shape, triangle profile.
Trains of cones!?!?!?

P.S. The gdc has never given us the most logical hints, so this is all shooting in the dark, of course.

I'm not sure about making "trains of cones", but if there are cones, I think they would be similar to those orange caution cones you see on the street. That means that we may have to pick them up (maybe place them on a train?)

[Bjenks548]

This is the only FIRST game i could find with the logo used. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvOI3WmYPas

[iblis432]

Let's face it, the train is definiatly a must, or at least something related to trains or train terminology. We know this from the hints and Dave's most auspicious choice of a profile picture. XD So besides that, what can we think of ignoring anything already said?

[synth3tk]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet:

The logo is missing the TM sign in the lower right hand corner. All the official FIRST Logos either have an (R) or a TM.
Please read the thread before posting.

[FIRSTtm134]

I suspect 3 different shaped game pieces

It makes sense
to tie it in with the history of first:
Tetras for the triangle
Some sore of ball for the circle (oversized tennis ball?)
and the storage boxes from 2003

[TheoBlacksmith]

I do not get why you guys are wasting time and energy trying to figure this out. even if you Figure it out, you would never know till kickoff! (and just to put this outthere, i agree with the train theory)

[GaryVoshol]

Logo Motion. :)

(Name inspired by this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=990982&postcount=853) post.) Even if it is wrong, I am so singing this all season. Come on baby, do the logo motion. It rocks!
Wouldn't it be great if the game name was "revealed" by a typo?

Logo Motion: you have to get objects in goals that are somehow related to a moving FIRST logo. Maybe lights go on and off, or goals open and close. Or maybe the goals - shaped like circle, square and triangle - move around.

Edit: I think the train angle is the ultimate red herring.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Wouldn't it be great if the game name was "revealed" by a typo?

Logo Motion: you have to get objects in goals that are somehow related to a moving FIRST logo. Maybe lights go on and off, or goals open and close. Or maybe the goals - shaped like circle, square and triangle - move around.

What about this: 3 symbols, 3 teams on each alliance! What if each team in an alliance was given a certain symbol, and at the end of the match they had to line up to make the FIRST symbol!!!

[TheoBlacksmith]

More beating around the bush. my advive, sit tight and wait for kickoff,

[Andrew Lawrence]

More beating around the bush. my advive, sit tight and wait for kickoff,

We know this i just wild guessing, but it helps us with the wait!

[rabridges]

I wonder if it could be...

Nah, that would just be way too...

Never mind.






.

This is the only FIRST game i could find with the logo used. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvOI3WmYPas


There could be elements used form this game used, that would very interesting to see robots coming off of a spring loaded platform on to the field. Different playing field surfaces mentioned in Hint 1 Thread would be fun and a test to all teams.

[Andrew Lawrence]

There could be elements used form, that would very interesting to see robots coming off of a spring loaded platform on to the field.

Or spring-loaded walls on the sides that you could use to launch yourself!

[dag0620]

Going back on the idea that the three shapes represent the three game peices.

If anyone remembers, back in I think June ( Bill Posted that the GDC wanted students, Alumnist, Mentors etc. to e-mail them about what they wanted to see in next years game. I sent them an e-mail and said how the king of the hill part of Stack Attack would be a good element to return. I'm hoping that based of of this theory, Stack Attack would return in some way or form.

Here's my e-mail just in case any of what I asked for makes it in :P

Hello to the entire GDC.

My name is Dave Givens, I am a programmer on 1071, and 2010 was my Rookie Year.

For next years game, I was hoping especially as a new person, to bring back an older game, with a new twist, to celebrate the 20th anniversary of FRC. This would allow the new guys like me to see some of these classics I hear my older mentors talk about.

Some specific games I would like to see return, or see elements from these games return

Maize Craze - My little joke is to support Maize Craze 2011 whenever I walk into the shop. On a sirius note as simple as this game is, it is the original game, and I think some tribute either on the 20th or 25th anniversary should be given to.

Stack Attack - There was just something about this game I really liked. I'm pretty sure it was the sorta King of the Hill aspect of the game that made it seem interesting to me. If somehow next years game could include King of the Hill, whether specifically as a flashback to Stack Attack or not, would be interesting. Plus it would keep up the high and changing strategy that Breakaway had.

Other - As I mentioned before, I like the games that are more high paced and have more strategy like sports (no matter if they are sports based or not). Its because of that reason I Prefer games like Breakaway and Overdrive over games such as Rack n Roll and Triple Play (even though our Teams first Regional win was on that game)

In closing I want to thank everyone on the GDC for putting together a spectacular game that made my Rookie Year enjoyable. This game really got me involved with First, and I can guarantee you I don't see myself going anywhere anytime soon.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to my ideas,

-David Givens

[dodar]

Wouldn't it be great if the game name was "revealed" by a typo?

Logo Motion: you have to get objects in goals that are somehow related to a moving FIRST logo. Maybe lights go on and off, or goals open and close. Or maybe the goals - shaped like circle, square and triangle - move around.

Edit: I think the train angle is completely a red herring.

Thats not a bad idea. Maybe there are lights above the goals like in 2007 that go off and on and each team has 3 goals: 1 for scoring triangle game pieces, 1 for circle game pieces, and 1 for square game pieces. But you can only score points when the logo above the goal is lit up(of course in autonomous all the goals would be lit up). Building a robot to score 3 different game pieces in a match, wouldnt that be a treat to build.

To build off this idea. Maybe it would be split into time slots within the match more like 2006, where triangles can get scored during the first period, then the circles, then the squares, then all 3. IF you did end up doing that, though, you would have to raise the points up more and more for the harder objects to score. Like circles would be worth 1pt, then squares worth 2pts and triangles worth 3pts, etc...

[rabridges]

Or spring-loaded walls on the sides that you could use to launch yourself!

Like turbo boosting over the alliance, or maybe a game piece.

[JaneYoung]

More beating around the bush. my advive, sit tight and wait for kickoff,

A lot of us enjoy the hints and the guessing part of them. We enjoy that much like a puzzle. It doesn't matter if we are right, wrong, close, or totally off. For us, it is fun and provides an opportunity to think and dream together.

There's nothing wrong with that. For those who do not enjoy it, don't read the threads but don't spoil the fun for the rest of us.

Jane

[Andrew Lawrence]

Going back on the idea that the three shapes represent the three game peices.

If anyone remembers, back in I think June ( Bill Posted that the GDC wanted members to e-mail them about what they wanted to see in next years game. I sent them an e-mail and said how the king of the hill part of Stack Attack would be a good element to return. I'm hoping that based of of this theory, Stack Attack would return in some way or form.

Here's my e-mail just in case any of what I asked for makes it in :P


Well, if that's true, then we know what we're looking for! Dave just said what he'd like to see, and what elements of gameplay that he wanted! He also told us that he was trying to "renovate" a previous game. So, with that in mind, let's look at all previous games, especially the ones he mentioned, and see how or if they tie into the FIRST logo, and the first hint with the locomotion theory.

[1086VEX]

one idea i concluded form this was that the current FIRST logo (hint picture) is simply an updated rendition of the original FIRST logo from 1992 and the late '90's-'04. seems to me like this clue if pointing to a game that is an updated rendition of a previous FIRST game.
the other idea is that from here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=18620#) you can see that every game that featured the FIRST logo on the game image had either FIRST or FRC under the logo except...1992.

on another note from the first clue... the word locomotion was used. there were really only 2 games that have given a type of "crazy" motion those being 1992 and 2009 (please no more regolith...).

topped with the tennis ball red herring, my money is on a 1992 remake game.

[arizonafoxx]

Maybe the cone could actually be the field element. We could have a very low sloping cone in the center of the field. Maybe the dimensions would be 20' diameter with a 1' height. The sphere is a 4" tennis ball and the cylinder is the goal(s).

[Mike Schreiber]

The first thing I noticed about this logo is that it does not have a trademark or a copyright symbol like every other instance of the logo, but is otherwise identical to the official one (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRSTicon_RGB.jpg).

Why would they pull the TM off this image?

[Andrew Lawrence]

Maybe the cone could actually be the field element. We could have a very low sloping cone in the center of the field. Maybe the dimensions would be 20' diameter with a 1' height. The sphere is a 4" tennis ball and the cylinder is the goal(s).

Maybe the sloping cone is a spot where you can get extra points! Maybe if your team has something on the top of the slop, such as a colored game piece or a robot, you get points! It would also be interesting because your game piece/robot could fall off!

[Andrew Lawrence]

The first thing I noticed about this logo is that it does not have a trademark or a copyright symbol like every other instance of the logo, but is otherwise identical to the official one (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRSTicon_RGB.jpg).

Why would they pull the TM off this image?

That;s been mentioned before, and has been marked as nothing. It means nothing, so fogetabouti! (Forget about it)

[AlftanSr]

Here is a video FIRSTWorldTube posted May 6, 2010 on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuSDypGi_IA

After watching that video, I am now convinced it's a water game.

[Andrew Lawrence]

After watching that video, I am now convinced it's a water game.

Are you serious? Robots and water? THAT'S AWESOME!!!!

[EricH]

That;s been mentioned before, and has been marked as nothing. It means nothing, so fogetabouti! (Forget about it)
Au contraire!

FIRST would not release a document with their logo missing parts without a very good reason. Remember, their logo is trademarked/copyrighted, and as such the proper format needs to be used (i.e., copyright/trademark logos as necessary).

If those items are missing--as they are--and there is no organizational tag (also part of the logo for all intents and purposes), and this is on a logo that FIRST itself has put out, then there must be a very good reason.

If an organization violates its own logo-usage guidelines, there is either a very good reason or someone has a lot of explaining and fixing to do. I go with very good reason. What that reason is remains to be seen.

[arizonafoxx]

Maybe the sloping cone is a spot where you can get extra points! Maybe if your team has something on the top of the slop, such as a colored game piece or a robot, you get points! It would also be interesting because your game piece/robot could fall off!


Maybe you could move, or push the goal (cylinder) and place it on top of the cone in the center for bonus points. The goal could have a concave dug out in the bottom.

[brizkin]

Hello everybody,

I did not bother reading the hundreds of posts before mine because I know what the game hints mean.

Summary:
Game hint one- a flipped picture of a singer who's most famous song is also the name a video game (Locomotion).
Game hint two- FIRST Logo in low resolution.

My conclusion: the flipped picture is symbolic of the fact that this is FIRST's 20th anniversary and this game will go back to the beginnings of the league. The first competition FIRST held was a game in which contestants collected tennis balls, which is very similar to the game Locomotion (see the connection?).
The FIRST logo in low resolution could also represent the history of the league.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Au contraire!

FIRST would not release a document with their logo missing parts without a very good reason. Remember, their logo is trademarked/copyrighted, and as such the proper format needs to be used (i.e., copyright/trademark logos as necessary).

If those items are missing--as they are--and there is no organizational tag (also part of the logo for all intents and purposes), and this is on a logo that FIRST itself has put out, then there must be a very good reason.

If an organization violates its own logo-usage guidelines, there is either a very good reason or someone has a lot of explaining and fixing to do. I go with very good reason. What that reason is remains to be seen.

Yes, because the logo with the TM gives away the whole game! Nobody has been able to find a viable solution to what that can mean for two whole threads! Unless you find some significant meaning, then it's signified as meaningless.

[dag0620]

Yes, because the logo with the TM gives away the whole game! Nobody has been able to find a viable solution to what that can mean for two whole threads! Unless you find some significant meaning, then it's signified as meaningless.

This is a moment at which I really wish Mr. Lavery would just come in and tell us that is was a goof of Copyright left off before I go crazy:rolleyes:

Back to my scrutinizing of the hint.

[TheoBlacksmith]

agree with above.
also, does anyone have a picture of the original hint? i cant seem to find it anywhere.

[Andrew Lawrence]

This is a moment at which I really wish Mr. Lavery would just come in and tell us that is was a goof of Copyright left off before I go crazy:rolleyes:

Back to my scrutinizing of the hint.


I'm thinking of ways for the TM symbol to mean something, but the only thing I can think of is someone other than FIRST is doing something for the competition.

[rabridges]

Or spring-loaded walls on the sides that you could use to launch yourself!

agree with above.
also, does anyone have a picture of the original hint? i cant seem to find it anywhere.

Your Request

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2011_Assets/FRC%202011%20Game%20Hint%201.jpg

[arizonafoxx]

agree with above.
also, does anyone have a picture of the original hint? i cant seem to find it anywhere.


All hints can be found at usfirst.org

[EricH]

Yes, because the logo with the TM gives away the whole game! Nobody has been able to find a viable solution to what that can mean for two whole threads! Unless you find some significant meaning, then it's signified as meaningless.Excuse me, but it's one thread.

The FIRST logo with the TM would mean nothing--it's the FIRST logo. The absence of the TM (or anything else other than the shapes) means that it is NOT the FIRST logo as it would normally be seen. The game logo is not the FIRST logo; the game logo would give away the game.

The significance is that SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE THERE IS NOT. What the missing thing is is the confusing thing.

...Wait a minute. The first hint was an album cover, reversed, and with the title removed. The second hint is the FIRST logo, normal, with thecompetition/organization tag and the trademark removed.

Both hints have something removed; an identifier or title. Could the game involve removing something from somewhere on the field?

--Don't go looking for no significance where there might be some significance that you can't see.

[Leeebowitz]

I think it's a good bet that there is going to be some kind of blast from the past involved in this game. There's a lot of evidence pointing there.

However, I don't think there will be trains and I don't think the logo has to do with the game pieces. If it did, my money would be on the cylinder since the other two "add up" to it. Somehow, though, I don't feel like the GDC would be that obvious.

I have noticed something that I haven't seen anybody else mention. Look at how we reacted to this hint. Before the hint, I kind of took the logo for granted. I knew about its origins from the video about Archimedes, but it was still just a logo. But, as soon as they posted it as a hint, we all started re-examining the logo (a game element so crazy it makes us re-examine FIRST???)--which the GDC could easily anticipate us doing--looking into its history and origins (blast from the past game)--also something the GDC could anticipate us doing--and interpreting the symbolism of the shapes, the linkage, and even the color scheme (I got nothin').

I would like to think said crazy game element would be treadmills, which I believe someone either mentioned in this thread or the first game hint thread. It would fit in with the locomotion idea without using trains. But who knows? It might be that our robots go on the walls instead of the floor.

Fuel for the fire.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Excuse me, but it's one thread.

The FIRST logo with the TM would mean nothing--it's the FIRST logo. The absence of the TM (or anything else other than the shapes) means that it is NOT the FIRST logo as it would normally be seen. The game logo is not the FIRST logo; the game logo would give away the game.

The significance is that SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE THERE IS NOT. What the missing thing is is the confusing thing.

...Wait a minute. The first hint was an album cover, reversed, and with the title removed. The second hint is the FIRST logo, normal, with thecompetition/organization tag and the trademark removed.

Both hints have something removed; an identifier or title. Could the game involve removing something from somewhere on the field?

--Don't go looking for no significance where there might be some significance that you can't see.

I don't mean to be rude! Sorry! The only thing I could think of is that someone besides FIRST is doing something for the competition. Your idea is good too! Maybe each alliance can take something away from the opposing alliance!

[MattC9]

Shall we connect the logo, or the anniversary to the game?

[TheoBlacksmith]

the most obvious is that It would maybe be some recreation of the 1st FIRST game since it is their anniversairy. Another thing is that it could be a linkage game because of "Little Eva" and her song "Loco - Motion". Possibly all teams on the alliance's robots are connected together to do some sort of race, or an obstacle course or some sort of train design to push or pull down a track.

[rabridges]

Excuse me, but it's one thread.

The FIRST logo with the TM would mean nothing--it's the FIRST logo. The absence of the TM (or anything else other than the shapes) means that it is NOT the FIRST logo as it would normally be seen. The game logo is not the FIRST logo; the game logo would give away the game.

The significance is that SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE THERE IS NOT. What the missing thing is is the confusing thing.

...Wait a minute. The first hint was an album cover, reversed, and with the title removed. The second hint is the FIRST logo, normal, with thecompetition/organization tag and the trademark removed.

Both hints have something removed; an identifier or title. Could the game involve removing something from somewhere on the field?

--Don't go looking for no significance where there might be some significance that you can't see.

Maybe the Human element might be removed from this years game as mentioned in Hint 1 Thread, A full Autonomous game. Robots just relaying sensors and good programming.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Maybe the Human element might be removed from this years game as mentioned in Hint 1 Thread, A full Autonomous games. Robots just relaying sensors and good programming.

Sounds good for us programmers, but that would make a lot of people who run the robot and are the human player quit robotics, so that's probobly not going to happen. PLUS, it could result in a lot of crashes, and would take the excitement out of the game.

[CassCity2081]

Maybe the Human element might be removed from this years game as mentioned in Hint 1 Thread, A full Autonomous game. Robots just relaying sensors and good programming.

I have to believe that a full autonomous game is impossible. the littlest bump from another robot could completely screw up any match in full autonomous mode.

[Andrew Lawrence]

I have to believe that a full autonomous game is impossible. the littlest bump from another robot could completely screw up any match in full autonomous mode.

Agreed. If you want full autonomous mode, try Botball. That's always fun!

[Tetraman]

Excuse me, but it's one thread.

The FIRST logo with the TM would mean nothing--it's the FIRST logo. The absence of the TM (or anything else other than the shapes) means that it is NOT the FIRST logo as it would normally be seen. The game logo is not the FIRST logo; the game logo would give away the game.

The significance is that SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE THERE IS NOT. What the missing thing is is the confusing thing.

...Wait a minute. The first hint was an album cover, reversed, and with the title removed. The second hint is the FIRST logo, normal, with thecompetition/organization tag and the trademark removed.

Both hints have something removed; an identifier or title. Could the game involve removing something from somewhere on the field?

--Don't go looking for no significance where there might be some significance that you can't see.

Good

Post

I've got a feeling that you have figured it out. It's not just the FIRST logo - it's the design that is what's important.

[Grim Tuesday]

Full autonomous would never be possibly, it would put too much strain on any of the teams programmer-requiring them to make a legitimate artificial intelligence, instead of a scripted on as is.


EDIT: After reading through this thread, I have come to agree with Tetraman and EricH: It's not about the picture, its about what isnt in the picture.

[Speeder]

Maybe something like a Railroad Switch Yard. Positioning (and linking) large game pieces into a 'train', of course the chosen order wouldn't be revealed until the start of each match.

[SteveGPage]

Let's try a different "track" (pun intended).

What if the hint has nothing to do with the game, but refers to the robots instead? In several of the previous seasons, we have had to design the robots, while also keeping in mind what other teams might design. Can I lift, can I be lifted, can I support another, etc. I would not be surprised if we have 3 different configurations (size, height, weight) and have to design the robot within those different and unique specs. So the first part of the design is how you expect to play the game, and how this robot will be a part of an alliance. Maybe, using the train motif - you have to figure out if you are the engine, the cargo car, or the caboose! Your alliance would be severely limited if all three were the same configuration!

Steve

[Andrew Lawrence]

Maybe something like a Railroad Switch Yard. Positioning (and linking) large game pieces into a 'train', of course the chosen order wouldn't be revealed until the start of each match.

That sounds like an FRC game! Especially because it has the randomness of the order in it!

[rabridges]

Excuse me, but it's one thread.

The FIRST logo with the TM would mean nothing--it's the FIRST logo. The absence of the TM (or anything else other than the shapes) means that it is NOT the FIRST logo as it would normally be seen. The game logo is not the FIRST logo; the game logo would give away the game.

The significance is that SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE THERE IS NOT. What the missing thing is is the confusing thing.

...Wait a minute. The first hint was an album cover, reversed, and with the title removed. The second hint is the FIRST logo, normal, with thecompetition/organization tag and the trademark removed.

Both hints have something removed; an identifier or title. Could the game involve removing something from somewhere on the field?

--Don't go looking for no significance where there might be some significance that you can't see.

Agreed. If you want full autonomous mode, try Botball. That's always fun!

I have to believe that a full autonomous game is impossible. the littlest bump from another robot could completely screw up any match in full autonomous mode.

True the game could be a bit dry without some human element, what else is trademark of FIRST that could be removed?

[TheoBlacksmith]

Maybe something like a Railroad Switch Yard. Positioning (and linking) large game pieces into a 'train', of course the chosen order wouldn't be revealed until the start of each match.

Defenitly agree. also i am a programmer and i know that a fully autonamous game would be near impossible(nothing is impossible)but pretty close.

[EricH]

No autonomous period. There wasn't one up until 2003; it would be an interesting throwback to not have one for a year.

[jakegorov]

The two pictures are just there to antagonize us. They can't release any information until this Saturday.

[rutzman]

The first thing I noticed about this logo is that it does not have a trademark or a copyright symbol like every other instance of the logo, but is otherwise identical to the official one (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Branding_and_Logos/FIRSTicon_RGB.jpg).

Why would they pull the TM off this image?

Perhaps it means they are borrowing ideas from things that someone's already done...
Remix of old games, anybody?

[Andrew Lawrence]

No autonomous period. There wasn't one up until 2003; it would be an interesting throwback to not have one for a year.

I think that that would be an interesting twist......in the wrong direction. No autonomous would make the match kind of predictable, knowing that your opponents will start exactly where they are! Plus, there wouldn't be that all robots for themselves time where it's easy to score!

[Creator Mat]

I got it we got to put a square peg in a circular hole... o wait we do that every year already

[Andrew Lawrence]

I got it we got to put a square peg in a circular hole... o wait we do that every year already

After serious evaluation, I've come up with the first fact proven true about this years competition: There will be robots!:eek:

[remulasce]

Further analysis of the picture:
Size is 336 by 237
The RGB values of the red in the triangle is 237, 27, 36

The 237 comes up twice... and 336, which cannot be a legal RGB color, reappears as 36 in the blue channel

Suspicious...

[TheoBlacksmith]

After serious evaluation, I've come up with the first fact proven true about this years competition: There will be robots!:eek:

Full heartedly agree(but ya never know).......
also im prettty sure the robots are going to be made out of aluminum.
just throwing that out there

[Andrew Lawrence]

Full heartedly agree(but ya never know).......
also im prettty sure the robots are going to be made out of aluminum.
just throwing that out there

I think we're on to something here!

[BJC]

Excuse me, but it's one thread.

The FIRST logo with the TM would mean nothing--it's the FIRST logo. The absence of the TM (or anything else other than the shapes) means that it is NOT the FIRST logo as it would normally be seen. The game logo is not the FIRST logo; the game logo would give away the game.

The significance is that SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE THERE IS NOT. What the missing thing is is the confusing thing.

...Wait a minute. The first hint was an album cover, reversed, and with the title removed. The second hint is the FIRST logo, normal, with thecompetition/organization tag and the trademark removed.

Both hints have something removed; an identifier or title. Could the game involve removing something from somewhere on the field?

--Don't go looking for no significance where there might be some significance that you can't see.

I think this is very right except one thing.

The first game hint was not the cover for locomotion. It was actually the cover for Little Eva's greatest hits, one of the songs being Locomotion.

The second hint, as someone pointed out, appears to be the same one used in the FIRST 20th aniversery logo minus some key features.

Both hints, however, have been stripped of words and dishinguishing marks so as to make the connection dificult.

Putting 2 and 2 togeather it seems to me that this points at taking the "greatest hits" of the last 20 years of FRC and rolling it up into one game.

[TheoBlacksmith]

Further analysis of the picture:
Size is 336 by 237
The RGB values of the red in the triangle is 237, 27, 36

The 237 comes up twice... and 336, which cannot be a legal RGB color, reappears as 36 in the blue channel

Suspicious...

???????????????

[Andrew Lawrence]

I think this is very right except one thing.

The first game hint was not the cover for locomotion. It was actually the cover for Little Eva's greatest hits, one of the songs being Locomotion.

The second hint, as someone pointed out, appears to be the same one used in the FIRST 20th aniversery logo minus some key features.

Both hints, however, have been stripped of words and dishinguishing marks so as to make the connection dificult.

Putting 2 and 2 togeather it seems to me that this points at taking the "greatest hits" of the last 20 years of FRC and rolling it up into one game.

It's back to the original picture! A mix of the best parts of all previous games!

[TheoBlacksmith]

I think we need to take in several aspect
1. both pictures were stripped of identification( obviously just to throw us off the trail)
2. the FRC logo simply tells us that this is going to be a FRC competiiton
3. though the picture was on little eva's greatest hits. the one listed the greatest was" locomotion".
leading me to belive that this year's competition will have something to do with trains or linking.

[Mike Schreiber]

I think this is very right except one thing.

The first game hint was not the cover for locomotion. It was actually the cover for Little Eva's greatest hits, one of the songs being Locomotion.

The second hint, as someone pointed out, appears to be the same one used in the FIRST 20th aniversery logo minus some key features.

Both hints, however, have been stripped of words and dishinguishing marks so as to make the connection dificult.

Putting 2 and 2 togeather it seems to me that this points at taking the "greatest hits" of the last 20 years of FRC and rolling it up into one game.

Can you really claim it's the "20th anniversary logo"? From this thread I thought that logo came out in '05 which would be 14 years of FRC

Good thinking though. Eric I think you're onto something.

[iblis432]

Perhaps it's not WHAT was taken away but the fact that it WAS taken away. Game pieces can't be reused? Or instead of a game piece coming into the game during endgame, it is removed during endgame. Or we have something built on the field and have to take it down. Or better yet, that game (i forgot the name) where you take bricks out of the tower without letting the tower fall. I can hear the animation now "if a team takes a high brick, its 2 points, and if a team takes a low brick, its 4 points, however, if a team causes the tower to collapse, they lose 25 points. There are a total of 6 towers on the field, 3 blue, and 3 red. You are allowed to score points on an opponents tower only during the last 30 seconds of the match." XD

[Andrew Lawrence]

Perhaps it's not WHAT was taken away but the fact that it WAS taken away. Game pieces can't be reused? Or instead of a game piece coming into the game during endgame, it is removed during endgame. Or we have something built on the field and have to take it down. Or better yet, that game (i forgot the name) where you take bricks out of the tower without letting the tower fall. I can hear the animation now "if a team takes a high brick, its 2 points, and if a team takes a low brick, its 4 points, however, if a team causes the tower to collapse, they lose 25 points. There are a total of 6 towers on the field, 3 blue, and 3 red. You are allowed to score points on an opponents tower only during the last 30 seconds of the match." XD

That would be a hazard for the robot, that unlike previous hazards, could destroy the robot.

[rabridges]

I think this is very right except one thing.

The first game hint was not the cover for locomotion. It was actually the cover for Little Eva's greatest hits, one of the songs being Locomotion.

The second hint, as someone pointed out, appears to be the same one used in the FIRST 20th aniversery logo minus some key features.

Both hints, however, have been stripped of words and dishinguishing marks so as to make the connection dificult.

Putting 2 and 2 togeather it seems to me that this points at taking the "greatest hits" of the last 20 years of FRC and rolling it up into one game.

To add to about stripped of distinguishing marks, What if we are removing off something on our robots that makes us different from other bots?

[Dustin Shadbolt]

No autonomous period. There wasn't one up until 2003; it would be an interesting throwback to not have one for a year.

it would be interesting. that could be tied into the "missing elements" from the pictures. Such as FIRST and the album title.

[dag0620]

It's back to the original picture! A mix of the best parts of all previous games!

I think we hit the nail on the money! I understand it's been discussed before, but I feel that the explanation referenced is the most thought out and reasonable one to back up that theory.

[TheoBlacksmith]

Perhaps it's not WHAT was taken away but the fact that it WAS taken away. Game pieces can't be reused? Or instead of a game piece coming into the game during endgame, it is removed during endgame. Or we have something built on the field and have to take it down. Or better yet, that game (i forgot the name) where you take bricks out of the tower without letting the tower fall. I can hear the animation now "if a team takes a high brick, its 2 points, and if a team takes a low brick, its 4 points, however, if a team causes the tower to collapse, they lose 25 points. There are a total of 6 towers on the field, 3 blue, and 3 red. You are allowed to score points on an opponents tower only during the last 30 seconds of the match." XD

I can see where you are taking this and i can here the animation 2 lol. but i think your taking it into to much detail without enuf evidence.

[iblis432]

That would be a hazard for the robot, that unlike previous hazards, could destroy the robot.

Not necasarrily. The tower can be made out of something soft and cushiony. I don't know what the material is, but the Science Museum of Virginia has this thing where you build an Arch, and it has this hard yet soft to the touch and extremely light weight material on the pieces. I've had teammates throw them at my face and it didn't even sting a little. We've piled 30 of them on someone else and they stood up with minimum ease saying there was no weight on them. Something like that could make the towers. Part of inspection could be making sure nothing critical on the robot is exposed from the top.

[rabridges]

I think this is very right except one thing.

The first game hint was not the cover for locomotion. It was actually the cover for Little Eva's greatest hits, one of the songs being Locomotion.

The second hint, as someone pointed out, appears to be the same one used in the FIRST 20th aniversery logo minus some key features.

Both hints, however, have been stripped of words and dishinguishing marks so as to make the connection dificult.

Putting 2 and 2 togeather it seems to me that this points at taking the "greatest hits" of the last 20 years of FRC and rolling it up into one game.

Perhaps it's not WHAT was taken away but the fact that it WAS taken away. Game pieces can't be reused? Or instead of a game piece coming into the game during endgame, it is removed during endgame. Or we have something built on the field and have to take it down. Or better yet, that game (i forgot the name) where you take bricks out of the tower without letting the tower fall. I can hear the animation now "if a team takes a high brick, its 2 points, and if a team takes a low brick, its 4 points, however, if a team causes the tower to collapse, they lose 25 points. There are a total of 6 towers on the field, 3 blue, and 3 red. You are allowed to score points on an opponents tower only during the last 30 seconds of the match." XD


You mean Jenga, a giant game of Jenga. That would be nuts.

[iblis432]

I can see where you are taking this and i can here the animation 2 lol. but i think your taking it into to much detail without enuf evidence.

Oh don't worry, I know, but It all came into my head so fast I thought the cd community would giggle a little. :)

[Andrew Lawrence]

Not necasarrily. The tower can be made out of something soft and cushiony. I don't know what the material is, but the Science Museum of Virginia has this thing where you build an Arch, and it has this hard yet soft to the touch and extremely light weight material on the pieces. I've had teammates throw them at my face and it didn't even sting a little. We've piled 30 of them on someone else and they stood up with minimum ease saying there was no weight on them. Something like that could make the towers. Part of inspection could be making sure nothing critical on the robot is exposed from the top.

True! I didn't think about that!

[thefro526]

I think this is very right except one thing.

The first game hint was not the cover for locomotion. It was actually the cover for Little Eva's greatest hits, one of the songs being Locomotion.

The second hint, as someone pointed out, appears to be the same one used in the FIRST 20th aniversery logo minus some key features.

Both hints, however, have been stripped of words and dishinguishing marks so as to make the connection dificult.

Putting 2 and 2 togeather it seems to me that this points at taking the "greatest hits" of the last 20 years of FRC and rolling it up into one game.

This is perhaps one of the most logical posts I've seen in a hint thread.

Well Done.

I just hope that Greatest Hits means that there will be more than one task this year. :D

[BJC]

Can you really claim it's the "20th anniversary logo"? From this thread I thought that logo came out in '05 which would be 14 years of FRC

Good thinking though. Eric I think you're onto something.

I don't know if it is or not. It's speculation like everything else in this thread.

[TheoBlacksmith]

that could work for it. i suppose. but were really not getting anywhere. its like walking through a door and you see 50 more doors and every door leads you down a hallway to 100 more doors. and on and on. and you have to find the one door with the bathroom nearly impossilbe

[Grim Tuesday]

Let's try a different "track" (pun intended).

What if the hint has nothing to do with the game, but refers to the robots instead? In several of the previous seasons, we have had to design the robots, while also keeping in mind what other teams might design. Can I lift, can I be lifted, can I support another, etc. I would not be surprised if we have 3 different configurations (size, height, weight) and have to design the robot within those different and unique specs. So the first part of the design is how you expect to play the game, and how this robot will be a part of an alliance. Maybe, using the train motif - you have to figure out if you are the engine, the cargo car, or the caboose! Your alliance would be severely limited if all three were the same configuration!

Steve


Thats a very interesting idea, though I believe that was the plan with suspending last year. I've thought long and hard about how suspending could have worked, and came up with an idea, should a similar game mechanic be used this year: Within the first week, many teams get together, and design a common "harness" system in which their robots may interlink, then try to get as many teams as possible to use it.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Thats a very interesting idea, though I believe that was the plan with suspending last year. I've thought long and hard about how suspending could have worked, and came up with an idea, should a similar game mechanic be used this year: Within the first week, many teams get together, and design a common "harness" system in which their robots may interlink, then try to get as many teams as possible to use it.

Sounds good! The only problem is that most people don't want to connect their robots unless they have too, me included!

[EricH]

It was suggested in 2007.

Once people figured out about ramps, though, nobody went for it.

Same in 2010, but it didn't become universal.

[dag0620]

Sounds good! The only problem is that most people don't want to connect their robots unless they have too, me included!

If something like that was to be done, wouldn't FIRST Standardize it ahead of time (Like the Trailer Hook-Ups of '09)

[Andrew Lawrence]

It was suggested in 2007.

Once people figured out about ramps, though, nobody went for it.

Same in 2010, but it didn't become universal.

Most every game has some sort of elevation, and we'd be sure to run into problems going up a slope!

[Grim Tuesday]

If something like that was to be done, wouldn't first Standardize it ahead of time (Like the Trailer Hook-Ups of '09)

They could leave it to the teams to figure out--innovate in.

[acrease77]

Does anyone remember that video at championships last year about how the first logo was invented? maybe theres some clues in that, or ways we could figure out what this actually means.

Also, this may sound stupid, but if you try saving the game hint as a picture, the name of it is "logo", so it probably hasnt been tampered with, besides taking out the words.

[Andrew Lawrence]

If something like that was to be done, wouldn't first Standardize it ahead of time (Like the Trailer Hook-Ups of '09)

This is my first year in FRC, so I wasn't in 2009's competition. If what you say is true, that makes me feels a lot better!

[Red One]

Since the rumor arose about a "coupling" or "chain" as seen in the hint, could there be some utilization of a trailer such as in Lunacy? That had a coupling-like fixture.

[Hawiian Cadder]

my thought is this, a very large, movable goal in the center of the field at start, the goal is to score some game piece in this movable container, however as another component, the large movable trough is able to slide back and forth between sides of the field, the goal is to move the goal so that the game pieces resting in the bottom are on your side of the field.

[TheoBlacksmith]

seems that this is just a wild goose chase......

[demosthenes2k8]

The flaw with this is, the best option is simply to have your robot have a bar that's identical to the one on the field.

[TheoBlacksmith]

Since the beginnings of civilisation man has had a fascination for a human-like creation that would assist him. Societies in the early part of the first millennium engaged in slavery and used those slaves to perform the tasks which were either dirty or menial labours. Having slaves freed the enslavers to carry on their society and concentrate on what they perceived as more important tasks such as business and politics. Man had discovered mechanics and the means of creating complex mechanisms which would perform repetitive functions such as waterwheels and pumps. Technological advances were slow but there were more complex machines, generally limited to a very small number, which performed more grandiose functions such as those invented by Hero of Alexandria.
In the first half of the second millennium man began to develop more complex machines as well as rediscovering the Greek engineering methods. Men such as Leonardo Da Vinci in 1495 through to Jacques de Vaucanson in 1739 have made plans for, and built, automata and robots leading to books of designs such as the Japanese Karakuri zui (Illustrated Machinery) in 1796. As mechanical techniques developed through the Industrial age we find more practical applications such as Nikola Tesla in 1898 who designed a radio-controlled torpedo and the Westinghouse Electric Corporation creation Televox in 1926. From here we find a more android development as designers tried to mimic more human-like features including designs such as those of biologist Makoto Nishimura in 1929 and his creation Gakutensoku, which cried and changed its facial expressions, and the more crude Elektro from Westinghouse in 1938.
Electronics now became the driving force of development instead of mechanics with the advent of the first electronic autonomous robots created by William Grey Walter in Bristol, England in 1948. The first digital and programmable robot was invented by George Devol in 1954 and was ultimately called the Unimate. Devol sold the first Unimate to General Motors in 1960 where it was used to lift pieces of hot metal from die casting machines in a plant in Trenton, New Jersey.
Since then we have seen robots finally reach a more true assimilation of all technologies to produce robots such as ASIMO which can walk and move like a human. Robots have replaced slaves in the assistance of performing those repetitive and dangerous tasks which humans prefer not to do or unable to do due to size limitations or even those such as in outer space or at the bottom of the sea where humans could not survive the extreme environments.
Robots come in those two basic forms: Those which are used to make or move things, such as Industrial robots or mobile or servicing robots and those which are used for research into human-like robots such as ASIMO and TOPIO as well as those into more defined and specific roles such as Nano robots and Swarm robots.
Man has developed a fear of the autonomous robot and how it may react in society, such as Shelley's Frankenstein and the EATR, and yet we still use robots in a wide variety of tasks such as vacuuming floors, mowing lawns, cleaning drains, investigating other planets, building cars, entertainment and in warfare.

[Andrew Lawrence]

The flaw with this is, the best option is simply to have your robot have a bar that's identical to the one on the field.

not unless you can move your bar!