Springs on a minibot?

[hans4]

So I have some team member wondering if springs are allowed on the minibots.
I believe that rule <r-92> says no, however part J makes me wonder if its possible.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Nick

[cbeavers6790]

i would agree with you and say no. If its not listed under the things that can be used on the mini bots then i wouldnt risk it. I would stick with the things that they say can be used. i will check the rules to make sure though

[EricH]

Spring springs are not in the list.

But rubber bands and surgical tubing are (parts U and V).

Twisted rope could also act as one, but I'd go for rubber bands first.

[hans4]

Thanks guys i'll let my team members know


Nick

[Waffles]

It's rather questionable, considering that ruling <R92> under listed part J says:

non-metallic rope, or cord

If you're thinking about a different materialized spring, it may be considered. Deff check with the Q&A, otherwise assume no because springs can be deemed dangerous in some way shape or form.

Just my two cents.

[Duke461]

So I have some team member wondering if springs are allowed on the minibots.
I believe that rule <r-92> says no, however part J makes me wonder if its possible.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Nick

Well, unless you used a NON-metallic rope or cord for a spring (i dont know how you would, feel free to let me know) you could not use a spring; also, that would be pretty hard because your minibot has to stay in contact with the pole throughout. So
1. it'd be hard to make a non-metallic spring
2. it'd be hard to make a non-metallic spring with a enough force to get to the top
3. it'd be hard to make a non-metallic spring with a enough force to get to the top while touching the pole, which would impede in some way on the upward speed
Happy to help,
-Duke

[ThePeracha]

What about launching it? Can we launch it directly from the robot to the pole?

[cbeavers6790]

What about launching it? Can we launch it directly from the robot to the pole?

NO that would not only be dangerous, but from what i have looked at in the rules it is not allowed please do not try it

[Karibou]

What about launching it? Can we launch it directly from the robot to the pole?

With a spring? As long as the spring is connected to the ROBOT/HOSTBOT, and not the MINIBOT, the spring is part of the ROBOT and would be legal.

[Waffles]

NO that would not only be dangerous, but from what i have looked at in the rules it is not allowed please do not try it

Can you provide a reference point from the manual? I mean, there are methods we've thought about, and considering that we're working with a steel pole, that means that there's potential for magnets as well.

Just my two cents.

[jamie_1930]

If your looking for more of a compression type spring I would suggest using bent polycarbonate. Although too much compression could cause permanent defermation of the polycarbonate, so be careful (also it would be a weak spring). In addition with the mention of using rope to create a spring you could do this by utilizing the rope as torsion catapaults do.

[ThePeracha]

NO that would not only be dangerous, but from what i have looked at in the rules it is not allowed please do not try itHahaha, don't worry, my team already kind of considers my a bit loony.

But why not? It'll have to be sturdy and have a latching mechanism but that's all. Even with a cubic foot of space, we can still make it possible. Plus, we only have 10 seconds to climb 11 feet, and this is the quickest way possible.

I was thinking of using surgical tubing since that would light weight and easily stretched. With no height limit this year, it should be too difficult to make a catapult that could possible also double as an arm.

[ThePeracha]

Can you provide a reference point from the manual? I mean, there are methods we've thought about, and considering that we're working with a steel pole, that means that there's potential for magnets as well.Excellent idea. But won't the magnets disrupt both the sensors and the electronics on the minibot?

[ThePeracha]

From thread http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=993370:It's not necessarily the BASE. When you "deploy":

DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference during the END GAME. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)

DEPLOYMENT LINE – located on the POST, approximately 18 inches above the top surface of the BASE.

These are the Manual definitions.

I believe you have an 18" buffer zone on which you PLACE the minibot.

(Otherwise, correct me if I'm wrong)Does this mean it can't be thrown above the line area?

[nighterfighter]

and considering that we're working with a steel pole, that means that there's potential for magnets as well.

Just my two cents.

I feel like using magnets would only slow you down.

[Mike Ounsworth]

Excellent idea. But won't the magnets disrupt both the sensors and the electronics on the minibot?
Who says the mini-bot needs electronics?

What if your mini-bot was a passive cylinder that wraps around the pole and is then launched from a HOST-mounted "crossbow" (or other stored-energy launcher). I get the feeling this isn't in the spirit of the mini-bot, but I don't see anything in the rules specifically forbidding it.

[ThePeracha]

I feel like using magnets would only slow you down.Size =/= power. A small and light magnet can easily be very powerful. However, a magnet powerful enough to latch a 15 lb bot onto a pole would probably disrupt the sensors on the pole and also the electronics on the minibot as well.

[ThePeracha]

Who says the mini-bot needs electronics?

What if your mini-bot was a passive cylinder that wraps around the pole and is then launched from a HOST-mounted "crossbow" (or other stored-energy launcher). I get the feeling this isn't in the spirit of the mini-bot, but I don't see anything in the rules specifically forbidding it.Interesting. However, I see a few problems. If the magnet is powerful enough to attach a minibot onto the pole, won't the electronics be disrupted on the hostbot and the sensors on the pole?

[salman1992]

<G46> MINIBOTS may only be used to climb the TOWER.

I don't know if launching would be allowed.

[AntonOlsen]

Interesting. However, I see a few problems. If the magnet is powerful enough to attach a minibot onto the pole, won't the electronics be disrupted on the hostbot and the sensors on the pole?

The magnets will not affect the electronics or sensors in any way unless you are using magnetic reed switches or hall effect sensors.

I've build a few VEX bots that use magnets to climb steel walls and I-Beams and never had a problem with the sensors, electronics, or radios.

[Mustangs]

what if you were to us some sort of rounded magnet attached to a drive motor with another two round magnets, all on seperate axles, so that they are in a triangle shape, would the magnet on the drive motor be able to push that up? or would u need too powerful a motor to be able to go up the pole fast enough?

[Waffles]

<G46> MINIBOTS may only be used to climb the TOWER.

I don't know if launching would be allowed.

Depends on how we interpret "climb".

Here's another thread on the same topic: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=88428

On the magnet note, that is a good point about affecting the surrounding electronics XD... forgot about that ~.~

[ThePeracha]

Well, FTC and FRC parts are different, right? Just because the electronics in FTC aren't affected won't mean the electronics from FRC will also hold up.

[GaryVoshol]

<G46> MINIBOTS may only be used to climb the TOWER.

I don't know if launching would be allowed.

That limits what the MINIBOT can do - it's only function is to climb the tower. It doesn't say anything about how that climbing is accomplished.

[gblake]

Folks - Unlees you want to name specific piece of eqmt that is sensitive to magnetic fields, don't worry about their effect on 99.9% of "electronics". There won't be any effect.

[Walker]

also, that would be pretty hard because your minibot has to stay in contact with the pole throughout.
-Duke

Really? Where in the rules does it say this?

[GBIT]

There has also been discussion about launching MINIBOTS here:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=88428

[E F]

A note to consider if using springs:
"Teams must be very careful when incorporating springs or other items to store energy on their ROBOT by means of part of material deformation. A ROBOT may be rejected at inspection if, in the judgment of the inspector, such items are unsafe." <R01> under 4.3.1

[Furrah!!]

Do you guys think that using springs for the purpose of clamping the minibot onto the pole would be legal?

[GaryVoshol]

Do you guys think that using springs for the purpose of clamping the minibot onto the pole would be legal?

Are springs on the list of approved parts for the MINIBOT?

[Andrew Remmers]

Interesting. However, I see a few problems. If the magnet is powerful enough to attach a minibot onto the pole, won't the electronics be disrupted on the hostbot and the sensors on the pole?

Who said you need magnets?

[GW Kalrod]

Are springs on the list of approved parts for the MINIBOT?

They list polycarbonate, which can be made into a spring. They list aluminum, which also could be made into a spring. it's really really unclear at this point.

[JesseK]

In FTC, if you can fabricate a "spring" from allowed parts, then the "spring" you fabricated is allowed so long as it's obvious that the allowed parts exist. This circumvents efforts by teams to make a spring by (for example) "stretching the 1/8" thick wall of an allowed metal tube such that it becomes wire thin, then bending the resulting metal wire into a spring-like shape".

Now, that doesn't mean the "spring" one fabricates from allowed parts in this scenario would put out enough energy. So perhaps one should try to do some spring calculations first. Or just prototype with real springs and try to figure out how to fabriate them later.

Really, prototype the stuff first guys. This conjecture is just ... noisy crap I have to filter out on my CD RSS feed...

[AdamHeard]

Surgical tubing is listed in there... One of the most commonly used springs in FRC.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Really? Where in the rules does it say this?

Potentially in rule <T14> which addresses the uncontrollable falling of minibots.