2011 compressor

[Bruceb]

Veteran team needs a compressor.
Where do I get a new compressor? The pneumatics manual lists the provider but I can't find them listed in any link.
Bruce

[IndySam]

The Viair 090C Air Compressor is popular with off roaders. A simple Google search will reveal many different places to purchase one.

such as:

http://www.knowwhere2jeep.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=318&products_id=10990

http://www.rjroffroad.com/viair-090c-air-compressor-kit-with-external-check-valve-9-duty-offroad-pr-17608.html

[Mrpalmere]

Try 4wheelsonline.com they have it for $59.63 delivered

[morganh2550]

Does anyone have any experience with these new compressors?

[jason701802]

And how do these compressors compare to the old ones?

[JB987]

The Viair 090C Air Compressor is popular with off roaders. A simple Google search will reveal many different places to purchase one.

such as:

http://www.knowwhere2jeep.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=318&products_id=10990

http://www.rjroffroad.com/viair-090c-air-compressor-kit-with-external-check-valve-9-duty-offroad-pr-17608.html

These compressors look great...are they legal this year?

[James Tonthat]

And how do these compressors compare to the old ones?

The specs are much better on the new ones. 1.3 cfm versus 0.8 cfm, looking at the spec sheets for both they're consistently better on the new one.

http://www.gd-thomas.com/product.aspx?id=12084&tp=p

http://www.viaircorp.com/OffRoad/90C.html

Edit:
These compressors look great...are they legal this year?

Yes, they're legal. <R69>

[Bill_B]

The Viair 090C Air Compressor is popular with off roaders. A simple Google search will reveal many different places to purchase one.

such as:

http://www.knowwhere2jeep.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=318&products_id=10990

http://www.rjroffroad.com/viair-090c-air-compressor-kit-with-external-check-valve-9-duty-offroad-pr-17608.html
Loving the specs at the first site. Startup and refill pressurization times are impressive for half-gallon tank. Have not got the chance to evaluate the new storage cylinder. Only one port so saving a plug that sometimes caught the ziptie hold-down. Gotta re-think the mounting for this puppy.

[hg273]

And how do these compressors compare to the old ones?

I haven't had experience with the new one, but here's a spec comparison:

Viair 090C 90 Series Air Compressor
*12-Volt
*Permanent Magnetic Motor
*Duty Cycle: 9% @ 100 PSI
*Max. Working Pressure: 120 PSI
*Inline Check Valve
*Amp Draw: 10 Amps
*Dimensions: 6.00” L x 2.10” W x 4.30” H
*Net Weight: 2.50 lbs.
*1.03 CFM at 0 PSI
*0.43 CFM at 90 PSI
*0.34 CFM at 120 PSI

Thomas Industries 405ADC38/12
*12-Volt
*Amp Draw: 10.5 Amps
*MAX. PSI CONT./INT. 100/100
*0.79 CFM at 0 PSI
*0.41 CFM at 40 PSI
*0.24 CFM at 100 PSI
*Diamensions: 7.50" L x 4.25" W x 5.375" H
*Motor: Shaded Pole, Thermally Protected with High Torque Start Winding
*Net Weight: 5.40 lbs

Huge weight savings to be sure!

[mryeagle]

can someone point me to a rule which prohibits the use of a previous compressor. (ie. are we forced by a rule that requires us to use the new compressor? ) and if so..what rule?

[keericks]

The Pneumatics manual calls out that veteran teams can legally use the compressor from past years KOP. Rookie teams have been provided the newer compressor, which veteran teams can acquire and use at their own cost.

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2011_Assets/Kit_of_Parts/2011_FIRST_Robotics_Competition_Pneumatics_Manual. pdf

[Bruceb]

Is there no official FIRST place to purchase one of these??
Bruce

[Sandvich]

The specs are much better on the new ones. 1.3 cfm versus 0.8 cfm,

Isn't it 1.03cfm on the new compressor? <R69> forbids anything more powerful than that.

[anyheck]

I think some of the difference is accounted for by the Viair compressor being rated at a supply voltage of 13.8V vs the old compressor at 12V.

[idahorobot]

I haven't had experience with the new one, but here's a spec comparison:

Viair 090C 90 Series Air Compressor
*12-Volt
*Permanent Magnetic Motor
*Duty Cycle: 9% @ 100 PSI
*Max. Working Pressure: 120 PSI
*Inline Check Valve
*Amp Draw: 10 Amps
*Dimensions: 6.00” L x 2.10” W x 4.30” H
*Net Weight: 2.50 lbs.
*1.03 CFM at 0 PSI
*0.43 CFM at 90 PSI
*0.34 CFM at 120 PSI

Thomas Industries 405ADC38/12
*12-Volt
*Amp Draw: 10.5 Amps
*MAX. PSI CONT./INT. 100/100
*0.79 CFM at 0 PSI
*0.41 CFM at 40 PSI
*0.24 CFM at 100 PSI
*Diamensions: 7.50" L x 4.25" W x 5.375" H
*Motor: Shaded Pole, Thermally Protected with High Torque Start Winding
*Net Weight: 5.40 lbs

Huge weight savings to be sure!

This is at 13.2 volts

[AJ R]

Our team ordered the 90C compressor from rjroffroad and the website says 1.03 cfm, but the one we received has .88 cfm printed on the compressor, but the box says it is the 90C. Has any one else come across this?

[Joe Ross]

Our team ordered the 90C compressor from rjroffroad and the website says 1.03 cfm, but the one we received has .88 cfm printed on the compressor, but the box says it is the 90C. Has any one else come across this?

.88 cfm is suspiciously close to the viar specs scaled for 12 volts instead of 13.8 volts.

[Dale]

The Viair compressors we just received also have the lower rating printed on the side. We ran a side by side comparison between the Viair and the old Thomas compressor filling up a giant Bimba cylinder to the point it was fully extended. I don't have the data in numerical form but subjectively the Thomas was substantially faster. This would be a 0 PSI test. It was running straight from a FRC-style battery.

Sorry for the lack of solid data here but the point is that teams should run their own tests to see if the Viair what they need it to do.

The ones were ordered were supposed to be 90Cs but, like the previous poster, the specs printed on the compressor didn't match the web. Maybe it's a voltage thing or maybe something else. The number on the compressor says it's a 090 but doesn't include a "C".

Could someone with a KOP Viair post the 0 PSI CFM spec that's printed on their compressor? Does your's say it's a 090C or just 090?

[Dimitri]

Is the new compressor for 2011 season as durable as the old compressor? Does anyone know of any problems with it?

[Peter Matteson]

Is the new compressor for 2011 season as durable as the old compressor? Does anyone know of any problems with it?

Not even close. The duty cycle is really low, around 9%. We burnt one out in 1 regional during Final 1-3 at the WPI regional last year and its failure vented the pnuematics on our robot essentially preventing us from playing in the match after 30 seconds. The compressor had been new at the begining of the practice day.

Make sure you have plenty of storage on board so the compressor has time to cool off.

[Jared Russell]

By the way, AndyMark has started selling these: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2005.htm

Note that the duty cycle rating is really, really low on these. I recommend keeping around the old Thomas compressors for long practice sessions, if not for the competition bot if heavy pneumatic usage is critical to your design.

[thefro526]

The 2011 compressor seems to run extremely hot from my limited experience with it, and by hot, I mean hot enough to burn your hand if you're not careful.

Interestingly enough, Andymark has started to stock the Valair compressors: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2005.htm

AM's recommendation is that they're not to fill more than a 1 Gallon Tank. There are approximately 231 Cubic Inches in 1 Gallon. From here, you should be able to calculate whether or not you may be overtaxing the compressor.

[IndySam]

Make sure you have plenty of storage on board so the compressor has time to cool off.

Having extra storage on board will not necessarily help here. The compressor will work just as hard to fill up the extra storage.

[JonathonSchad]

Our team used a Series 215 Thomas compressor for the 2011 season. The Viair compressor is basically the Chinese copy of it. It's the same weight but has a CFM rating of 0.97 which was below the 2011 CFM limit of 1.03. It outperformed it's rating unlike the Viair which wasn't even close to the 1.03 it was rated at.

[Ninja_Bait]

Our team used a Series 215 Thomas compressor for the 2011 season. The Viair compressor is basically the Chinese copy of it. It's the same weight but has a CFM rating of 0.97 which was below the 2011 CFM limit of 1.03. It outperformed it's rating unlike the Viair which wasn't even close to the 1.03 it was rated at.

That looks like a great alternative to the Viair, which does look a little, shall we say, fragile. Why isn't everyone on top of this? Price?

[Mark McLeod]

The Thomas is about $140-150
Here's one source: http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/Air-Ride/Air-Compressors/Thomas-Air-Compressor-Model-215-_-ARC1550/554425/
Specs: http://www.gd-thomas.com/product.aspx?id=12622&tp=p

[IndySam]

That looks like a great alternative to the Viair, Why isn't everyone on top of this? Price?

Bingo!

We used the Viair at our second competition last year at Smoky Mountain and at two off season events (IRI and CAGE Match) with zero troubles. That's on a robot with seven different cylinders three of which were 2" variety.

Remember compressors are heat generators and must have plenty of air to breathe and cool off or they will not last long. If you are going to be really pushing one hard you should even consider putting a large muffin fan on it.

[Peyton Yeung]

Having extra storage on board will not necessarily help here. The compressor will work just as hard to fill up the extra storage.

I think he means that with more capacity, the compressor won't need to turn on as often.

[IndySam]

I think he means that with more capacity, the compressor won't need to turn on as often.

But when it does turn on it will run longer and that is what will burn it out.

[JDNovak]

If you want reliable air the original KOP Thomas compressor is hard to beat. we have abused them over the years and never have destroyed one. I have had a couple of failures but one was the screw holding the reed valve loosening up and the other was trash under the valve. After maintenance, Both compressors still run 30 minutes at a time filling game elements or tires without complaining.

They are available at EStop Robotics:
http://www.estoprobotics.com/estore/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=55

It's funny how reliability is directly proportional to price and weight.

There are applications that favor one or the other depending on air usage and available weight.

[Mk.32]

We ran the new 90c compressor with a 1gal tank + KOP tank though out the season and never had a single problem. The compressor always ran at least for half of every match we played.

Is there any better alternatives to the 90C or the Thomas that fits within the rules?

[Garrett.d.w]

Personally, I have found that the new compressor does its job just fine, as long as you don't overheat it. We had to be careful while practicing to make sure that it stayed cool, but other than that, performance was comparable to our old compressor.
My recommendation for anyone who is running the new compressor is to pre-charge your pneumatics while practicing using a shop compressor (this is really easy to plumb into the release valve). This should avoid burning it up when you have to drain it every five minutes to modify a prototype.

[Peter Matteson]

Having extra storage on board will not necessarily help here. The compressor will work just as hard to fill up the extra storage.

If you have enough storage that it won't need to run too much during the match you can monitor the compressor while filling in the pit so it doesn't overheat and burn up the piston cup.

[Gdeaver]

If a tea team does not use the KOP compressor then make sure you account for it on the BOM. That Previous year compressor is expensive.

[Gary Dillard]

If a tea team does not use the KOP compressor then make sure you account for it on the BOM. That Previous year compressor is expensive.

Unfortunately last year, veteran teams who used their previous year's KOP compressors had to include their cost in the BOM; if you wanted to use a "free" compressor on the robot you had to buy the 2011 compressor.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=17185

Is there any better alternatives to the 90C or the Thomas that fits within the rules?
I guess we'll find out when we see the rules January 7th

[Mk.32]

I spoke to soon.... our 90C compressor just died...
Like I said before it was under high load (1gal tank) for most of the matches.
Is the Thompson really that much better? Considering we need a replacement now...

[artdutra04]

I spoke to soon.... our 90C compressor just died...
Like I said before it was under high load (1gal tank) for most of the matches.
Is the Thompson really that much better? Considering we need a replacement now...The Thomas 12v compressors (while heavier and larger) are significantly more reliable than the 90C compressors in a FRC environment.

[Brandon Holley]

We didn't have a single issue with the smaller Viair compressor this past season. We had a single 1/2 gallon storage tank with 5 pneumatic cylinders (all but one of them relatively small bore).

We strapped a fan to that compressor right off the bat and it seemed to do a decent job of cooling. It did get warm, but it never got to the point of failing through all of our preseason testing, 2 regionals and 4 off-season events, plus plenty of summer demonstrations.

-Brando

[de_]

We measured both compressors filling 4 air tanks a) from empty and b) from 100 psi to 120 (more realistic in a match: compressor comes on at ~100 psi.

In both cases the Thomas was noticably faster. The 100->120 test was 28 secs versus 39 seconds. You might ask how that is possible when the Viair is rated at 0.34 cf/m at 100 psi versus the Thomas at 0.24 cf/m at 100 psi (at 13.2v). You would hope the difference would be there (scaled down) at 12v operating voltage. Clearly the Viair either falls apart at 12v or they have a different way of rating their compressors.
Of course the Viair is way lighter, way smaller profile for limited space robots but does run hotter (but just as you don't touch motors immediately after a match, don't touch the compressor). I have not heard of any reliability complaints.

[pmangels17]

Is there no official FIRST place to purchase one of these??
Bruce

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2005.htm
They have the new compressor.

[theawesome1730]

The 2011 compressor seems to run extremely hot from my limited experience with it, and by hot, I mean hot enough to burn your hand if you're not careful.


For quite a while last season I had an imprint of the heatsink of that compressor burned into the palm of my hand...

For those of you wondering, they do cook ridiculously quickly. We went through 2 in 2012