View Full Version : Minibot Rules
Just a question about the minibots....
1) Is it allowed to be a two aprt machine.. ie something attaches to the base and another launches off that via surgical tubing or something?
2) Are we even allowed to "kinetically" launch the minibots.. as in have them fired up the pole no motors or anything?
1) No, see <G42>.
2) Not clear, although there has been much discussion of this. We'll have to wait for team update #1.
joeduderey
10-01-2011, 22:30
Are VEX kits included in part of the TETRIX kit?
Are VEX kits included in part of the TETRIX kit?
Much to the chagrin of many, VEX parts are not allowed on the minibot...
As for the G42 rule im talking about kinetially shooting the minibot up the pole once the mechanism has attached to the pole itself... like launching it using the polea s a guide to hit the top/....
Al Skierkiewicz
10-01-2011, 23:48
Dr.,
Please be patient...
Al, I think I understand what he's asking: When the minibot is deployed, it's in two parts. One part is a launcher for the other, and both contact the pole.
If they were one unit, I don't think there would be a problem. However, in the case of there being two units, <G42> applies, as the minibot is intentionally detaching a part. Or, the launcher could be part of the hostbot.
Caveat: If the GDC decides that launched minibots of any form are not legal, disregard this.
professorX
11-01-2011, 06:56
1) No, see <G42>.
That rule exempts mini-bot deployment so detaching a part to launch a mini-robot is legal.
(with the exception of appropriate DEPLOYMENT of the MINIBOT)
The word that sets me off a little is "appropriate". What do they consider appropriate?
J
1) Is it allowed to be a two aprt machine.. ie something attaches to the base and another launches off that via surgical tubing or something?
The problem I see with this is that anything defined as being part of the minibot must stay within a 12" x 12" x 12" box.
if the launcher is part of the robot (which we are not sure is legal) it would be ok, but if it's part of the minibot then leaving part of the minibot behind while the other part is shot up the tower would be illegal since the two parts would be seperated by more than sqrt(3)*12" (longest straight line in a 12" cube).
Al Skierkiewicz
11-01-2011, 07:55
I believe Leav has the correct response. G42 adds to that, no parts left behind.
Although there has been little discussion thus far, teams should keep in mind that they need to get the minibot down at the end of the match. If you don't, the field reset people will. Can you say hardhat area?
Although there has been little discussion thus far, teams should keep in mind that they need to get the minibot down at the end of the match. If you don't, the field reset people will. Can you say hardhat area?
Nothing says the minibot has to stay at the top once it has triggered the target.
(slightly) Off topic, but am I correct in thinking the minibot's power is completely separated from the field? i.e. after the game, when all robots power down, the minibot is still running unless manually stopped, right?
GaryVoshol
11-01-2011, 08:05
(slightly) Off topic, but am I correct in thinking the minibot's power is completely separated from the field? i.e. after the game, when all robots power down, the minibot is still running unless manually stopped, right?Unless the GDC tells us otherwise, that is correct. I have seen nothing that indicates the MINIBOT will be under any kind of field control. And it has to be autonomous, so it can't be under the control of the team.
Al Skierkiewicz
11-01-2011, 08:28
Yes, you are correct. There is no connection to field management and no connection to the robot. It is a completely autonomous device.
MINIBOT an autonomous vehicle designed and built to perform specific tasks when competing in the 2011 competition LogoMotion. The MINIBOT must obviously follow a design approach intended to play the 2011 FRC END GAME and must be compliant with all MINIBOT rules defined in Section 4.3.14.
Emphasis mine for correction of the reference to robot rules.
Dmiller28
11-01-2011, 09:40
AnotherQuestion:
does the robot need to be self proppelled up the post?
does a minibot have to remain in the 12x12x12 size once deployed?
GaryVoshol
11-01-2011, 09:44
does the robot need to be self proppelled up the post?We don't know; I'm sure it will be asked when Q&A opens.
does a minibot have to remain in the 12x12x12 size once deployed?
No, it could get smaller. ;) But it can't expand.
<R91> The MINIBOT may not exceed a 12 x 12 x 12 volume and weigh no more than 15 lbs. - no time provision; it applies the entire match.
Slightly unrelated, but would it be legal for the minibot to have an external power source?
Ex: Having the Minibot's power come from a tether cable connected to the main robot?
Slightly unrelated, but would it be legal for the minibot to have an external power source?
Ex: Having the Minibot's power come from a tether cable connected to the main robot?Let's see... Minibot must be 12"x12"x12" or less (<R91>) and must be constructed of only the things in <R92> (which includes one specific battery and no other).
You tell me.
Sheesh, maybe we missed something in our prototyping. For the life of us we couldn't get any sort of minibot to 'launch' up a pole with enough efficiency to hit 8', let alone hit it with enough force to trip a sensor...
Though I suppose that a PVC piece that gets velcroed together around the pole is something that we didn't try. If only there weren't a snow day today...
It would be such a shame if a velcroed PVC pipe consituted a pole-climbing minibot. (Just my opinion though)
1) No, see <G42>.
2) Not clear, although there has been much discussion of this. We'll have to wait for team update #1.
<G42> States that "Robots, Minibots, or Hostbots may not intentionally detatch parts or leave Mechanisms on the Field (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF APPROPRIATE DEPLOYEMENT OF THE MINIBOT)" So that means that you could actually have two parts to your Minibot, as long as it is ONLY used for the deployment of it.
Bob Steele
11-01-2011, 17:22
Actually the minibot would not have two parts... the deployment part is part of the hostbot.
I think we all need to wait and see what Q and A or the Updates say about much of this. I am sure they will make it more clear.
or they could make it more confusing... errr...
I personally don't think that thinking of the minibot as a projectile is worth much time until we know...
My personal odds on that are about 99 to 1 against allowing a mini-projectile ring launch...
Al Skierkiewicz
12-01-2011, 16:35
SPF,
That is not what the rule states. The exception to the robot rule is to allow the detachment of the mini from the main robot during deployment.
D,
Since there is no rule that modifies the mini size, the interpretation therefore is it may not expand beyond the 12" cube at any time.
Tytus Gerrish
12-01-2011, 18:52
This is a better place to post this idea.
9661
by attaching a windmill to the pole-bot it rolls up the pole using wind supplied by my parent robot.
Grim Tuesday
12-01-2011, 18:57
This is a better place to post this idea.
9661
by attaching a windmill to the pole-bot it rolls up the pole using wind supplied by my parent robot.
Someone came up with the idea of using a magnet on the robot to pull up a corresponding magnet on the minibot. Quite similar to your idea.
TronHoward
13-01-2011, 20:53
No, it could get smaller. But it can't expand.
Quote:
<R91> The MINIBOT may not exceed a 12 x 12 x 12 volume and weigh no more than 15 lbs.
The rule says 12"x12"x12" VOLUME... so does 18"x8"x12" fit in the rules? It is the same volume.
Mike Schreiber
13-01-2011, 22:43
I thought this was a good spot to point this out.
There are several rules disallowing certain things on the ROBOT, which in my understanding includes the MINIBOT according to their definition.
R42 implies that you can't use the motor controller to run 2 FTC motors.
R43 & R48 imply you have to use the motor controller to run your minibot's motors
Any thoughts? I doubt this is the case, but I just wanted to point it out.
Does this mean you can't run wire from the battery directly to the motor (bypassing the NXT brick)?
<R42> Each power-regulating device (speed controller or relay module) shall control one and only one electrical load (motor, actuator or compressor).
<R43> Custom circuits shall NOT directly alter the power pathways between the battery, PD Board, speed controllers, relays, motors, or other elements of the robot control system (including the power pathways to other sensors or circuits). Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to the ROBOTS electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the ROBOT outputs should be inconsequential.
<R48> All electrical loads (motors, actuators, compressors) must be supplied by an approved power regulating device (speed controller, relay module, or Digital Sidecar PWM port) that is controlled by the cRIO-FRC on the ROBOT.
....
D. Each other electrical load (motor or actuator) must be supplied by one and only one approved speed controller, or one and only one relay module.
gbrettmiller
13-01-2011, 23:13
If the rules had said the MINIBOT may not exceed 1 cubic foot (or 1728 cubic inches), then your example would be acceptable. Since it specifies the hxwxd, though, I'd say your example would not pass inspection.
big1boom
14-01-2011, 00:12
First wave of Q&A answers are coming out right now.
Does the MiniBot, once it has hit the top of the tower, and triggered the sensor, have to stay at the top until the end of the match, or can it climb the pole, hit the sensor, and immediately fall back down the pole to the bottom?
Per the definition of TRIGGERED, once the disk sensors are tripped, the MINIBOT RACE on that TOWER is complete. Therefore, the MINIBOT does not need to stay at the top of the tower. It is encouraged that you design your MINIBOT so that it's easily retrieved at the end of the MATCH.
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16121
Seems fairly clear now, minibot just needs to trigger the sensor.
Al Skierkiewicz
14-01-2011, 15:52
The minibot sizing box will be 12 x 12 x 12 inches as specified.
Michael, the rules you are quoting relate to the robot, the minibot rules at the end of the robot section, 4.3.15 &4.3.15 specify for the minibot only.
There are several rules disallowing certain things on the ROBOT, which in my understanding includes the MINIBOT according to their definition.
R42 implies that you can't use the motor controller to run 2 FTC motors.
R43 & R48 imply you have to use the motor controller to run your minibot's motors
Any thoughts? I doubt this is the case, but I just wanted to point it out.
Does this mean you can't run wire from the battery directly to the motor (bypassing the NXT brick)?
Yes, as written, <R42>, <R43>, and <R48> seem to prohibit wiring the motors directly to switches. However, it's pretty clear from the wording of <R48> that this a copy-paste error. It's obviously not legal to control the MINIBOT motors with the CRIO. In fact, the rules currently prohibit using the NXT to control the MINIBOT, which certainly isn't the intent of the rule!
<R48> All electrical loads (motors, actuators, compressors) must be supplied by an approved power regulating device (speed controller, relay module, or Digital Sidecar PWM port) that is controlled by the cRIO-FRC on the ROBOT.
I wonder if team update 3 is going to consist of a long list of "ROBOT HOSTBOT" corrections.
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