Feeder Bot

[spiffyspleen]

I got my first opportunity to mess around with the logo tubes this evening and I noticed that they are very heavy duty and it is possible to throw them pretty far( I was able to get about 30 to 40 feet). The circular one flies the best but the other ones go almost as far. this got me thinking that it would be possible to make a robot that sat in front of one of the player stations and got fed logo tubes. It would then throw them across the field to its alliance partners saving them long trips across the field. Has anyone else considered doing something like this? Has anyone done anything like this before?

[BIGWILLI2081]

our team has decided to go against throwing pieces onto the field at anytime based on the fact the piece becomes available to the opposing teams when put past the lane.

[Tetraman]

Very interesting idea. Would make for a very unique and sought after robot, so long as the robot is able to get those tubes to fly far enough to your side of the field with 100% success. Maybe it wouldn't sit there, it might drive out to the edge of the blue feeder zone and shoot them off there...or it just hands pieces to allied robots.

If I had an entire robotics team for myself, I'd actually do that.

[Chris is me]

We tried throwing tubes and couldn't get them to track very straight.

[r2davis2]

This idea has definitely come up in 294's discussions, the fear however is that you really need to get the full distance of the field to avoid your opponents stealing the tubes you've thrown, it will also be very hard to actually build this successfully. But the biggest issue we came up with is that unless you are able to launch at-least 3/4ths of the field you can probably count on a few human players being able to match your distance.

That being said, I do really like this idea from the stand point of a well-built alliance, and would definitely prototype it a little to make sure it is reasonably feasible.

[spiffyspleen]

In my opinion a well designed mechanism to throw the intertubes should outperform a human arm, the main thing that I am also worried about is the intertubes curving a lot and going out of the field, although you could probably minimize this as much as possible through trial and error with the throwing machanism.

[davidthefat]

Apparently throwing of any sort is out of the question for our team... They want full control of the tubes at all times.

[Stephen of REX]

Don't aim too high, you might hang a tube on the opponent's tower and ruin their chances of getting a minibot up.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Darn, and here we thought we had a truly original idea. Anyways, we're strongly considering it, though overcoming the tendency of the tubes to not go straight is of course an issue.

Human players can and probably will do it at some point, but I think a bot could do it better if only because they're far more likely to actually reach the safe zone. The only problem is if it gets there and bounces out...

[GaryVoshol]

We tried throwing tubes and couldn't get them to track very straight.

I recall this problem from 2007. There weren't too many rings that scored directly on the rack. Whether thrown frisbee style or vertically "rolling" in the air, they usually swerved.

It would only seem to be compounded when throwing the triangle and square.

[Taylor]

Keep in mind that the tubes would pretty much have to be launched with some sort of spin about the vertical axis to have a controllable flight. The arc that is created could be repeatable in a mechanical launching device. If done well, this idea certainly has potential, but keep in mind it would require at least one of your alliance partners to be able to floor-load the game pieces (or catch them in midair).

[Bill_B]

Apparently throwing of any sort is out of the question for our team... They want full control of the tubes at all times.
The team realizes they will be in a variety of alliances with other teams, don't they? The longer the time before an actual event that the team comes to grip with the A-factor, the better their strategy will be. Just ask the team how they will convince an alliance team who thinks throwing will be OK.

[Tetraman]

We tried throwing tubes and couldn't get them to track very straight.

I would think it's not an issue of getting them to go where you want it, but about getting the most tubes over to your side of the field as fast as possible.

Say you were able to only catapult the Circle tubes. Well, just catapult a Circle and then grab yourself a triangle or square with an arm. Score with the arm and if everyone was too busy to take care of the circle, which I think will occur more often then not, score the circle. You'd get points and Logos much faster that way. Sure you'd need to pick up from the floor, but even if you had your human player throw them, you'd have to pick them up from the floor on your opponent's side anyway.

[Techokami]

We do plan on throwing them in, as it would be faster than inserting them through the slot, however it's hard to get good accuracy or distance with the square and triangle.

[mahumnut]

1418 discussed this as well, we tried throwing the pieces around and the only way we could get them to go anywhere with any sort of distance or accuracy was with a bunch of spin. Designing a mechanism to impart enough spin and launch it across the field length would be REALLY tough. We decided against it.

The other problem is you have to drive all the way across the field from the starting position to get to the loading lane. Because you can't cross the middle line in autonomous, you would have to wait for teleop to start. After a few games, I'm assuming other teams would be able to catch on and block you from ever getting into position. You would also have to avoid hitting the towers which are in the way.

Even if you were to build a robot that could launch the pieces, I still don't think it would be a game breaking strategy such as Las Guerrillas last year.

[Chris is me]

I would think it's not an issue of getting them to go where you want it, but about getting the most tubes over to your side of the field as fast as possible.

We also could never, ever, ever get a tube 45 feet.

That being said... if someone were to pull it off...

[Karibou]

Maybe it wouldn't sit there, it might drive out to the edge of the blue feeder zone and shoot them off there...or it just hands pieces to allied robots.


As of right now, we can't just hand pieces to allied robots (the rule doesn't make an exception for allies as written). Dropping them in front of other robots is an option, as is what you also suggested - shooting them off.

[spiffyspleen]

As far as imparting spin goes couldn't you just have a simple design, like two parrallel sets of wheels to accelerate the tubes. If you ran one set of wheels faster than the other, it should give it some spin. I was thinking if you got it optimized enough you could even curve it around the pole by the safe zone and try to get it to land in the middle of the safe zone in front of your pegs.

[Erik Huang]

This was HUGE in our strategy meetings; we even found some really effective elim. strategies using this;

don't forget, to bring 6 tubes across the field in one game, you'd have to make the roundtrip in under 15s, without obstruction. most team will realize that, so they might be throwing into the field as well.

[Erik Huang]

out of curiosity, i was wondering the dimensions of the pin/peg on the scoring rack/alliance wall: i know it's make of, essentially, a cylinder with a flange on the end: what is the radius/diameter/circumference of the flange?

[Chickenonastick]

Sounds like a lot of work for the tube dispenser :p

[Stephen of REX]

If I were to do this I would make the robot receive the tube out of the slot, rotate it 90 degrees, then catapult it over the field.

[spiffyspleen]

If I were to do this I would make the robot receive the tube out of the slot, rotate it 90 degrees, then catapult it over the field.

Do you think it would fly further in a vertical position?

[pandamonium]

I will have for you tonight video of team 73's prototype that Accurately shoots all sized tubes 10+ feet in the air and over 30 feet.

It was working yesterday but my camera was not :(

I am really excited because the feeder concept is slowly becoming a reality!

[Cyberphil]

I will have for you tonight video of team 73's prototype that Accurately shoots all sized tubes 10+ feet in the air and over 30 feet.

It was working yesterday but my camera was not :(

I am really excited because the feeder concept is slowly becoming a reality!

Hmm, I really want to see this. Sounds impressive. At this point in time, its a little late to change our pace, but this sounds very interesting...

[MagiChau]

I will have for you tonight video of team 73's prototype that Accurately shoots all sized tubes 10+ feet in the air and over 30 feet.

It was working yesterday but my camera was not :(

I am really excited because the feeder concept is slowly becoming a reality!

I would applaud if you guys can manage to get your human feeder to just keep chucking tubes at it and your robot spits them out while on the edge of the lane safe from pesky robots. :D

[pandamonium]

I think optimally we would not even need to move. Which would allow a more rapid fire, shooting tubes at about as fast as the human player can load them, approximately 2 - 4 seconds. For this to be viable we will need to add another 15 feet on to our range, but keep in mind this is a prototype made out of 4 pieces of wood and is not the most sturdiest of mechanisms.

[jyh947]

If a human player were to throw a game piece, would hitting a tower cause your team to receive a red card?

[rawrbot]

I am looking forward to seeing this feeder in action. i've been prototyping a tube launcher but wasn't able to get past 20 feet. a launcher feeder would be a huge advantage to any alliance.

[pandamonium]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrgc6KNDgY8

Distance: Triangle 27 feet, circle 30 feet, Square 28 feet, also the side to side was Fairly accurate.

Height: we had to limit the height because we were in a room with a ceiling but it was still at least 12 feet

The design is using two single surgical tubes tied on either end.

Ideally I would like to get about 10 more feet out of a final design but I think that will come with a more rigid design

as always any thoughts or suggestions you have are welcomed