pic: Team 148 - 2011 - Raptor

[JVN]

[cdm-description=photo]36404[/cdm-description]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XECmOwmYiu8

[O'Sancheski]

I will be the first to comment and that is the coolest looking bot i have ever seen

[Matt704]

Another year, another great Robot!! See y'all in Dallas. :cool:

[AndrewMorrison]

Amazing again!

[seans341]

Is that another nonadrive I see there?

[O'Sancheski]

I was just looking closely at your drivetrain. Is that the same drive system you guys used last year?

[MrForbes]

Beautiful! Hope to see it in person later this season...

[Hegemoni]

I cannot wait to see this bot in action. Jaw dropping to say the least.

[BrendanB]

Wow! This is one of the most beautiful robots I have seen!

Another quality machine from the 148 crew!

[Chris is me]

Congratulations. That's really all I have to say.

[MattC9]

Another great one I counting down the days to Alamo to see this bad boy in action. Just curious, why the name raptor after armadillo, tornado, tumble weed, ect.

[jwfoss]

I for one am glad I live and compete in New England. Awesome job guys.

[DinerKid]

Beautiful. Just Beautiful. I need to calm down before i can figure out what i am feeling...

~DK

[JaneYoung]

Another great one I counting down the days to Alamo to see this bad boy in action. Just curious, why the name raptor after armadillo, tornado, tumble weed, ect.

Taking 1 guess: Birds of prey feel quite at home here in Texas. If you search for 'photos of Texas raptors' - you will see what I'm talking about. If 148 is choosing to stay true to their Texas theme, they are - beautifully.

Jane

[Zach O]

Between the underglow and the engineering, it's mesmerizing.

Great video to go along with it. It's always fun to watch the videos.

[BJC]

I really like the way you throw tubes out to the end of the lane instead of going up to the wall.

Oh ya, cool robot too.;)

[s_forbes]

Killer mechanism, the extending linkage on the top is brilliant! The large gear/arm member on the bottom looks like a part that could cause a lot of headaches... did you have any strange issues to overcome with meshing a gear to the stacked aluminum plates?

I also love the way you implemented a telescoping mechanism with the rollers in the tube, I'm gonna have to play with that idea in the future. Lots of clever bits wrapped into your bot this year.

Fantastic robot as usual, and once again I'm super jealous of your fabrication abilities.

[thefro526]

Wow.

That robot is amazing, I'm especially fond of the deployment system for the mini-bot.

Way to go 148.

[JVN]

Killer mechanism, the extending linkage on the top is brilliant! The large gear/arm member on the bottom looks like a part that could cause a lot of headaches... did you have any strange issues to overcome with meshing a gear to the stacked aluminum plates?

I also love the way you implemented a telescoping mechanism with the rollers in the tube, I'm gonna have to play with that idea in the future. Lots of clever bits wrapped into your bot this year.

Fantastic robot as usual, and once again I'm super jealous of your fabrication abilities.

The low gearbox driving a high shoulder joint via a linkage (we call this the "hip joint") was inspired by the 67-2007 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/27133) robot which had this VERY cool feature. We added our own twist by making it a 4-bar linkage. Now it is a double 4-bar (we've been making double 4-bar jokes ALL season).

The practice robot shoulder joint has been running up and down since Day 18 of the build. It "just works." No worries at all with the plate gear experiment. Lots of laser cut plate gears on Raptor...

Yes, we are proud of some of the more subtle features inside Raptor. I know there are some that most people totally ignore that will be impressive to a mechanical designer with a good eye...

-John

[sgreco]

That right there is what FIRST is all about...simply inspiring...

[EricH]

It reminds me of a certain dominating machine from 2007... with some very scary twists. Scary, that is, if you're behind the opposite glass. Looking good!

[Cyberphil]

Wow. Thats all I have to say.

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Very nice robot, 148. Much to learn from this one. Good luck to you this year, and you can be sure I'll be paying your pit a visit in St. Louis ::safety::

P.S. Awesome musical taste, as usual ;)

[Brandon Holley]

Eh, looks decent.... ;)


Kudos on another terrific machine 148. The hard work your entire team puts in all season really shows in the final(ish) product.

-Brando

[R1ffSurf3r]

how quick is that minibot

[Adam Freeman]

Thank you, this is exactly what I needed after a long day in the shop.

Great design! I love the push link and the roller claw....seems vaguely familiar.

Thanks for the note :p

Can't wait to see it in person. I guess I will have to watch the video a few more times...maybe there's more hidden gems.

Awesome job 148!

EDIT: Didn't notice the first 10 times, but that is an articulating roller claw....just amazing!

[Aren_Hill]

Not enough polycord for a Raptor john

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/33501

:P

[1086VEX]

wow... i wish we could get the chance to play with you guys more often. your bots are always some of the most intricate and well designed machines out there. props on another insane bot!! best of luck this year!

[ratdude747]

wow... you guys seem to love the the robot lights.

looks sweet, thats for sure. performs well.

Good luck!

[Pat Fairbank]

Totally awesome. I've been following the blog all season, and the finished product definitely exceeds the high expectations I developed from that.

Can't wait to see it in person at CMP (and maybe get a guided tour of the subtleties?).

Yes, we are proud of some of the more subtle features inside Raptor. I know there are some that most people totally ignore that will be impressive to a mechanical designer with a good eye...

[AdamHeard]

It's a great machine, I loved the intro! Love the four bar even more, especially combining the rotation of the claw into the four bar.

I hope it does better than the last two robots named raptor (973 in 09, and 254 in 07), both fell in the semis at champs.

[Akash Rastogi]

I for one am glad I live and compete in New England. Awesome job guys.

I wish we competed down in Texas.

Looking good 148.

And remember, don't let them haters hate.

[robodude03]

John and 148 Members,

This is a beautiful machine and excellent intro video as always. We hope to see you in champs and good luck this season! I absolutely love the physical stop you placed on the arm to articulate the tubes into the right position.

[Flyer522]

Absolutely Awesome!

[SteveGPage]

JVN and crew:

You are more than engineers, you are artists!

(or maybe that should read - you are more than artists, you are engineers!)

[Arefin Bari]

Dear team 148,

You are giving me nightmares. I admire your capabilities and your teamwork. Thank you for sharing the video with us and I sure hope I get the chance to see this robot in person. You all are an inspiration to the young generation.

- Arefin.

[Jacob Paikoff]

Great video, awesome robot.

I hope that I have a chance to see it in person in St. Louis

[flippy147852]

Wow... once again 148 has produced a stellar bot.

Can't wait to (hopefully) see it in person in St. Louis!

[Leav]

What can I add beyond what has already been said? I am quite simply floored.

If you are making a pamphlet which explains your robot mechanically (I'm thinking of this one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31324) from simbotics in 08), I'd love to see it.

I'm constantly sharing great designs with my team and, well, let's say your design "qualifies"... :)

Yet another reason for us to strive for st. louis...

-Leav

[Chris Fultz]

Very cool.

Great work 148.

[Tetraman]

Can you imagine what they can do if a "feeder robot" was on their alliance?

[MagiChau]

Can you imagine what they can do if a "feeder robot" was on their alliance?

They probably don't even need a feeder robot if there is a human player chucking tubes over at them to hang.

[kgzak]

Video has been blocked by Sony Music Entertainment :mad:

[Alex.q]

Wow. I love robots like this where everything is planned out and fits together perfectly. I'd love to work on a robot like yours.

I'm interested in how you guys operate during the build season. How long does your team take to design before you begin to build the robot, when do the programmers get their hands on it, how much time do you leave for drivers to practice?

[Bjenks548]

Glad this beast in down in Texas. Unfortunately I'm going to have to deal with its Green twin probably. Any specs on the Mini bot speed? Looks to be magnetic. Robot looks awesome, hope you aren't on the blue alliance too much.

[Greg Needel]

Unfortunately I'm going to have to deal with its Green twin probably.


There are no twins of this robot besides our practice bot.

[Amy Yznaga]

I'm interested in how you guys operate during the build season. How long does your team take to design before you begin to build the robot, when do the programmers get their hands on it, how much time do you leave for drivers to practice?

JVN blogged about 148's entire build season. you can read it here: http://blog.iamjvn.com/

[Bjenks548]

Was there any collaboration between 217 and 148 this year?

[Greg Needel]

Was there any collaboration between 217 and 148 this year?

148 did not collaborate with any teams, if there are any similarities between us and any other teams that share our sponsor it is because we are all friends and share manufacturing capabilities, but there was no direct design sharing this year.

[ks_mumupsi]

nice looking, though I wouldnt expect anythin gless :).. hope to see you guys in St. Louis.

[pacoliketaco]

One of my favorite videos this time of year is always the final display from 148. yet again i am not disappointed. you guys amaze me in what you are capable of. One thing id like to know is how you train your students to make such amazing robots. The design alone must take many many hours of CADing. as a sophomore meche with a considerable amount of design experience i know I'd have quite a challenge making something like your robots.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Eh, it is ok, I think it will get better as the season progresses. ;)


Seriously though, nice video can't wait to see how this thing works by the time Championship comes around.

[bcharbonneau]

Great job again RoboWranglers. We look forward to seeing you in San Antonio.(Team 1296).

[Tyler Hicks]

I noticed there is a 217 sign in the background of the shop.

Hmmmmm.

[ahollenbach]

It's beautiful! Everything is so fluid and an excellent design!

[EricH]

I noticed there is a 217 sign in the background of the shop.

Hmmmmm.
And there was a Simbotics sweatshirt on one of the students in a picture...

[Nick Rixford]

Sick bot as always! hope to see you at St. Louis!

[ouellet348]

nice bot, I'll be curious to see what 217 and 1114 look like this year though, either way this is a very well engineered bot

[James Tonthat]

Yes, we are proud of some of the more subtle features inside Raptor. I know there are some that most people totally ignore that will be impressive to a mechanical designer with a good eye...


Not claiming I have a good eye, but really impressive. I love how you guys keep outdoing yourselves.

Can't wait to see it in San Antonio.

[Norman J]

Echoing the sentiments of many before me, I congratulate 148 on an awesomely impressive robot. Your designs are inspiring and your videos extremely cool.

[Karthik]

I was going to post a funny joke, but it may not have been appreciated. ;) Either way, awesome robot once again.

[samir13k]

Karthik took down his funny joke so i took down my funny response :/

on the other hand though, Oh dang...

[xSAWxBLADEx]

I was going to post a funny joke, but it may not have been appreciated. ;) Either way, awesome robot once again.

i wanna hear, i wanna hear :)

[nuggetsyl]

The mini bot alone will win most of there matches. Great job guys.

[PaW]

I really have to commend your media crew. The insane amount of hours it must've taken to compile all the pictures and edit the video footage... that is A LOT of work. And every year, the reveal video is breathtaking, and just a bit better than the previous year. Nice work!

The robot looks pretty good too. ;)

My jaw has become quite adept at self-healing, even with all the repeated drops to the floor.

[SuburBot]

Hello Robowranglers,
Very impressive robot! :eek:
This year, I'm hosting a Robot video unveiling competition. More info can be found here:
http://suburbots2115.wordpress.com/ruv-comp/
I believe your video fits all the requirements. Would you consider joining for the chance to win bragging rights and a PNG image file badge? All you have to do is post your team name and number and a link to your video on this CD thread:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=88184
Thank You

[JesseK]

Great music selection :cool: and a front-contending bot as usual. I got some interest in creating an offseason nonadrive based on this video, but I'm still fairly certain it's beyond our fabrication abilities. Maybe we'll do a 12fps+ slide drive instead.

Those of us who never saw 67's linkage are left to ponder the way the 148 linkage works. Is it like the locomotive linkages on old-school trains?

[Chris is me]

I've got a question. This question isn't a criticism disguised as a question.

What reasons would a team want to deviate from the "standard" method of powering an arm by bolting a sprocket to it and chaining it off a high reduction gearmotor? Basically, what are the advantages of the cool linkage pushing up on your arm as opposed to driving the rotational joint of the arm?

I've never learned much about arms and I don't understand the advantage or disadvantage of either system, other than CG placement.

[Bochek]

I've got a question. This question isn't a criticism disguised as a question.

What reasons would a team want to deviate from the "standard" method of powering an arm by bolting a sprocket to it and chaining it off a high reduction gearmotor? Basically, what are the advantages of the cool linkage pushing up on your arm as opposed to driving the rotational joint of the arm?

I've never learned much about arms and I don't understand the advantage or disadvantage of either system, other than CG placement.


I had the same thoughts, and can't seem to find a reason besides CG.

Defiantly interested to know.

- Bochek

[JVN]

I've got a question. This question isn't a criticism disguised as a question.

What reasons would a team want to deviate from the "standard" method of powering an arm by bolting a sprocket to it and chaining it off a high reduction gearmotor? Basically, what are the advantages of the cool linkage pushing up on your arm as opposed to driving the rotational joint of the arm?

I've never learned much about arms and I don't understand the advantage or disadvantage of either system, other than CG placement.

CG isn't reason enough?

One other reason is my hatred of chain, but mainly for CG reasons.
I would also suspect this is lighter than an equivalent low-gearbox + chain + sprocket...

Plus... c'mon... DOUBLE FOURBAR!

[Jonathan Norris]

Plus... c'mon... DOUBLE FOURBAR!

HOOWWW DOESS IT WORK??!?!? :confused:

[Bochek]

CG isn't reason enough?

One other reason is my hatred of chain, but mainly for CG reasons.
I would also suspect this is lighter than an equivalent low-gearbox + chain + sprocket...

Plus... c'mon... DOUBLE FOURBAR!


Now I must ask, where does your hatred of chain come from? Honestly The only time i have ever had problems is when it is very very poorly tensioned.

-Bochek

[AdamHeard]

Now I must ask, where does your hatred of chain come from? Honestly The only time i have ever had problems is when it is very very poorly tensioned.

-Bochek

You hit a point in design where you almost get bored, and you have to go further and try new things.

Chain is functional, 148's goals are higher than achieving functionality. There were some benefits (some may say they're small, I disagree) to this design over chain and they designed for that. I imagine never having to break chain, tension chain, deal with chain growing, etc. are pretty nice. I would imagine their goal is to keep making cool, great performing stuff, while never having to do repair or maintenance.

[MasonMM]

Oh, my god. Double fourbar! What does it mean?!

Its so vivid!

[Akash Rastogi]

Oh, my god. Double fourbar! What does it mean?!

Its so vivid!

Lololololol

[Adam Freeman]

I've never learned much about arms and I don't understand the advantage or disadvantage of either system, other than CG placement.

When we did it in 2007, it was specifically for CG purposes. I did not want to mount a gearbox near the top of the arm. I also did not want to run chain from the gear box to a sprocket at the top of the arm.

There is also a design elegance to doing something different than running chain.

I can tell you there are advantages and disadvantages to it. CG is probably the biggest advantage...other than 4 bar linkages are always cooler. In my mind the biggest disadvantage is the amount of packaging room required to allow the push link and connecting link to swing in the bottom of the robot.

In 2008 we wanted to use a double 4 bar, but could not get it to package... so we mounted a sprocket to the arm and ran a long strand of chain.

[MrForbes]

I would imagine their goal is to keep making cool, great performing stuff, while never having to do repair or maintenance.

If they don't have to repair or maintain the robot, they can spend their time and talent improving it. I like that idea.

[JaneYoung]

If they don't have to repair or maintain the robot, they can spend their time and talent improving it. I like that idea.

While true, when at the actual competitions, 148 can be found spending their time helping other teams. That's another way of spending their time and talent, improving.

It's going to be fun seeing the looks on a lot of rookies' faces when they see Raptor and 148 in action for the very first time.They'll wonder just what this FRC thing is all about and they'll want to learn more.

Jane

[JVN]

Those of us who never saw 67's linkage are left to ponder the way the 148 linkage works. Is it like the locomotive linkages on old-school trains?

I just put up a blog post highlighting how the linkage works:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-hip-joint.html

-John

[Akash Rastogi]

I just put up a blog post highlighting how the linkage works:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-hip-joint.html

-John

Very cool. Thanks for explaining.

What's driving the hip joint on your robot?

[Brandon Holley]

I just put up a blog post highlighting how the linkage works:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-hip-joint.html

-John

If you can't appreciate cool mechanisms like this, you probably can't appreciate anything!!

I especially like the use of sheet metal for everything, including the stacked plates to create the gear teeth on the smaller arm driven by the gearbox.

Thanks for sharing JVN.

-Brando

[JVN]

Very cool. Thanks for explaining.

What's driving the hip joint on your robot?

The shoulder joint is driven by (1) Banebots 775 motor, and (12) bands of surgical tubing.
You can see the 775 in this pic:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rFQ0CRqTKRc/TWRYohAQgvI/AAAAAAAAAr8/GpMz0pPT4HI/s1600/IMG_8024.JPG

-John

[Brandon Holley]

The shoulder joint is driven by (1) Banebots 775 motor, and (12) bands of surgical tubing.
You can see the 775 in this pic:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rFQ0CRqTKRc/TWRYohAQgvI/AAAAAAAAAr8/GpMz0pPT4HI/s1600/IMG_8024.JPG

-John

You guys obviously rivet a lot, I assume you have a pneumatic rivet gun.

Any recommendations on one that is pretty reliable?

-Brando

[JVN]

You guys obviously rivet a lot, I assume you have a pneumatic rivet gun.

Any recommendations on one that is pretty reliable?

-Brando

We buy the crappy ones from Harbor Freight -- they last about a season before they break. We replace them every year. Students are hard on riveters.

-John

[Garret]

This robot is amazing.

I would think that the double fourbar linkage would actually simplify the arm's joint design (at least in my mind it seems so much easier to deal with weight and taking loads) in that you would have to worry less about powering the pivoting point (gearboxes and chain) and instead focus on the making the actual joint stronger and more stable. I also could see it as isolating the motors and gearboxes from the abuse (as in side loads) the arm could take in a match, which I see as beneficial seeing how much defense this robot will likely have to put up with. Those are some of many potential benefits that I thought of when I first saw it.

[JVN]

Yes, we are proud of some of the more subtle features inside Raptor. I know there are some that most people totally ignore that will be impressive to a mechanical designer with a good eye...

-John

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.

Here is a glimpse at one of the SIMPLE subtle features that I think makes Raptor special... press-on CIM pinions:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-pinion-gears.html

-John

[thefro526]

Here is a glimpse at one of the SIMPLE subtle features that I think makes Raptor special... press-on CIM pinions:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-pinion-gears.html

-John

Wow, that's a really good idea. I can't tell from the picture, but does the pinion have the Key Shape cut into it, or do you just rely on the press fit to transfer the torque?

[IKE]

Wow. The press on pinions are very elegant. Did you guys do any slip calcs or tests?

[Brandon Holley]

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.

Here is a glimpse at one of the SIMPLE subtle features that I think makes Raptor special... press-on CIM pinions:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-pinion-gears.html

-John

Hell. Yeah.

Awesome idea Greg. Kudos to team 20 for producing the parts.

-Brando

[Chris is me]

That's a cool idea! I wish we had the resources to try cool things like that.

What's the easiest way for Low Resource Team to get press on CIM pinions?

[Aren_Hill]

Well it works for dewalt pinions, why not elsewhere, great idea

[MrForbes]

If you had the right size reamer, you could do it that way....

Press fits are a reliable way of holding gears onto shafts. Getting the fit right is sort of critical, but even if you can get it within a thousandth of an inch or so you should be ok, if it's a tight enough fit.

Drills don't work too well for this.

Also the dewalt gear is IMHO too small to fit reliably on the CIM shaft, there just isn't enough meat there. Others will disagree...

[JVN]

Wow, that's a really good idea. I can't tell from the picture, but does the pinion have the Key Shape cut into it, or do you just rely on the press fit to transfer the torque?

We rely on just the press fit to transfer the torque. It works fine -- no problems after hours of aggressive use.

[Travis Hoffman]

What's the easiest way for Low Resource Team to get press on CIM pinions?

Bring the idea to Andy Baker's attention? :)

Identify potential sponsors in your area who have EDM capability, and ask nicely.

...or reach out to a team in your region who already has an EDM-capable sponsor, then see if you can barter with them. We'll machine X parts for you if you give us Y extra parts or machine Z for us in return. Bartering is fun around these here parts. Our NEOFRA teams trade materials and sponsor services all the time. Example: I submitted some lexan from 379 to our waterjet sponsor along with all our parts; in return, the RoboCats gave me their unused KOP accumulator.

[Andy Baker]

Bring the idea to Andy Baker's attention? :)


Huh, what, did someone mention me in the same thread as this beautiful and effective robot?

I will be sure to bug John and Greg about this in San Antonio next week.

Andy

[thefro526]

We rely on just the press fit to transfer the torque. It works fine -- no problems after hours of aggressive use.

Huh, what, did someone mention me in the same thread as this beautiful and effective robot?

I will be sure to bug John and Greg about this in San Antonio next week.

Andy

Hmmm, I really, really hope this makes it into the AM Product line. Now that I think about it, Press Fit Pinions would make transmission assembly way easier.

[MrForbes]

Hmmm, I really, really hope this makes it into the AM Product line. Now that I think about it, Press Fit Pinions would make transmission assembly way easier.

And pinion/motor disassembly more difficult.

Not that WE've ever lost a gear due to lack of lubrication....just sayin.....but I suppose having a couple extra motors with gears pressed on would be a reasonable thing to do.

[Manoel]

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.

Here is a glimpse at one of the SIMPLE subtle features that I think makes Raptor special... press-on CIM pinions:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-pinion-gears.html

-John

One of those d'oh! moments... We've been wire EDM'ing all gears for our gearboxes since 2007 and that stupidly simple idea never occurred to me! In 2012 we won't be fighting with keyways, let me tell you that!

[Greg Needel]

That's a cool idea! I wish we had the resources to try cool things like that.

What's the easiest way for Low Resource Team to get press on CIM pinions?


The easy answer is find someone with a wire edm to make them for you. You can do pressfits with a reamer on a lathe, but the issue with these is that every gear that I found that was off the shelf 11tooth already had a bore which was over the pressfit size. So you would need to find a source for some gear stock (if you find it let me know I couldn't find any. )

[Cory]

The easy answer is find someone with a wire edm to make them for you. You can do pressfits with a reamer on a lathe, but the issue with these is that every gear that I found that was off the shelf 11tooth already had a bore which was over the pressfit size. So you would need to find a source for some gear stock (if you find it let me know I couldn't find any. )

You can get 12T 20DP gearstock. Obviously not quite what you have, but if a team were to be satisfied with a 12T already and just wanted to press it on, that would be a solution.

[Meredith Novak]

Awesome robot, 'Ranglers. Can't wait to see it in person next week!!!

We will be up against a Raptor and a Dragon...and we look like a duck...a mighty duck...

[JVN]

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.


Another in this series, discussing the one of the reasons we chose to build the design we did, and some more detail on the wrist joint:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-philosophy-wrist-joints.html

-John

[Madison]

Another in this series, discussing the one of the reasons we chose to build the design we did, and some more detail on the wrist joint:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-philosophy-wrist-joints.html

-John

John -- thanks for taking the time to do this series of blog posts. I often wonder if the way I conceptualize and design things is "right," or if I'm off in my own corner of the world somewhere doing weird things that are crazy.

The manner y'all use to extend the upper part of your four-bar is exactly like something I'd conceptualized a few years ago after I was unhappy with the telescoping mechanism on our 2005 robot. It's awesome to see that someone else had a similar idea and even better to see it implemented so well.

[JVN]

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.


Here is another in this series describing our use of aluminum plate gears this season:

http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-plate-gears.html

-John

[Cory]

Here is another in this series describing our use of aluminum plate gears this season:

http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-plate-gears.html

-John

John,

I'm curious how you avoid misalignment of the teeth relative to each plate after assembly. Do you bolt both plates together and then cut the teeth? Do you use pins to align them and then clamp them with bolts? is it just "good enough" that you can bolt them together without any alignment aids?

[sgreco]

I'm curious as to why you chose to stack plates instead of just cutting a thicker plate? I can understand if it was really thick for cost purposes, like over a half an inch, but wouldn't it be easier for a 3/8 piece to just cut one from a thicker piece of metal? I suppose if you're laser cutting then thicker aluminum isn't an option on all lasers because of aluminum's reflective properties.

I've also always been curious, are your parts lasered of waterjetted?

[JVN]

John,

I'm curious how you avoid misalignment of the teeth relative to each plate after assembly. Do you bolt both plates together and then cut the teeth? Do you use pins to align them and then clamp them with bolts? is it just "good enough" that you can bolt them together without any alignment aids?

It is just "good enough."

We align the plates (using a mating gear + eyeballs) and then clamp them with c-clamps before riveting.

These are aluminum gears, and we figured they'd wear in happy.

Again -- we were surprised how well this worked. We were expecting more hassle... but... it just works.

-John

[JVN]

I'm curious as to why you chose to stack plates instead of just cutting a thicker plate? I can understand if it was really thick for cost purposes, like over a half an inch, but wouldn't it be easier for a 3/8 piece to just cut one from a thicker piece of metal? I suppose if you're laser cutting then thicker aluminum isn't an option on all lasers because of aluminum's reflective properties.

I've also always been curious, are your parts lasered of waterjetted?

Our parts are lasered. We use 1/8" plates stacked instead of thicker plates for two main reasons:

1. The laser does have some "blow out" which will affect the tooth profile in thicker materials.

2. Our shop stocks 1/8" 6061 aluminum, so we can get it without a special order. When I'm trying to get 24 hours turns, I try not to make our shop do anything they don't normally do for production.

-John

[s_forbes]

Cool stuff, John!

Maybe you guys need to start up a Robowranglers R&D division to test more neat ideas like this... you can attempt all kinds of weird projects that would normally be foolish to try during a build season*. Though it sounds like your offseason work already accomplishes this. :)


*cough* walking robot *cough* *cough*

[LBseale]

CG isn't reason enough?

One other reason is my hatred of chain, but mainly for CG reasons.
I would also suspect this is lighter than an equivalent low-gearbox + chain + sprocket...

Plus... c'mon... DOUBLE FOURBAR!

If you dislike chain so much, why did you choose to chain together your omni-wheels and traction wheels? From your models it looks like you have enough CAD experience to space and use timing belts. SolidWorks (at least, maybe Inventor does too) comes with a tool for calculating belt lengths that's very handy. Belts are quieter and don't need tensioning.

[JVN]

If you dislike chain so much, why did you choose to chain together your omni-wheels and traction wheels? From your models it looks like you have enough CAD experience to space and use timing belts. SolidWorks (at least, maybe Inventor does too) comes with a tool for calculating belt lengths that's very handy. Belts are quieter and don't need tensioning.

Maybe next year.

We dislike chains that we need to worry about. This low-load application is pretty happy the way it is.

[sdcantrell56]

We've used laser cut gears in manipulators before when a small range of motion was desired but Ive never thought about using them in a drive application. Be sure to post up at the end of the season about any wear issues you encountered because otherwise it is a very simple solution to custom gears. I'll be sure to check them out at alamo.

[JaneYoung]

I wonder if there is any maximum allowance of people/teams per pit. Looks like 148 is going have a crowd. Non-stop. :) Again.

[Ian Curtis]

How do you generate the tooth profiles? Does IFI just have a piece of software that spits it out, do you do it by hand :ahh: , or is there a handy SW feature that I've missed that does it for you?

[MagiChau]

I wonder if there is any maximum allowance of people/teams per pit. Looks like 148 is going have a crowd. Non-stop. :) Again.

Well 148 would be nagged about the safety issue of too much people crowding your pit.

[JaneYoung]

Well 148 would be nagged about the safety issue of too much people crowding your pit.

Actually, it's always a pleasure to notice how planning committees work to make the pits efficient and, at the same time, a showcase for teams like 148 and 118, allowing space where there is some to be had. It's also nice when rookies are placed between veteran teams or are placed in an area together where they can be accessed and helped easily by veteran teams and volunteers who will help. Teams like 148 are very aware of their draw and they work hard not to infringe on other teams' space. I've seen it on Championship level and Regional level. It's also the job of the pit volunteers to help keep things orderly and running smoothly.

[JVN]

How do you generate the tooth profiles? Does IFI just have a piece of software that spits it out, do you do it by hand :ahh: , or is there a handy SW feature that I've missed that does it for you?

There are lots of ways to do this. Some of my favs:

1. Pull out your handy Machinist's Handbook and sketch the tooth profile by hand.

2. Buy one of those gear profile generation programs and get it to spit it out for you.

3. Download the gear from somewhere online. bostongear.com has all their gears available online.

For this year's robot we used option 3. I downloaded the gear I wanted from Boston gear, then traced over the tooth in Solidworks (eliminating splines with simple arcs, so it would import cleaner into our laser cutter's NC program). I grabbed this sketch, dropped it into a new sheetmetal part and away we went...

-John

[Tristan Lall]

There are lots of ways to do this. Some of my favs:

1. Pull out your handy Machinist's Handbook and sketch the tooth profile by hand.

2. Buy one of those gear profile generation programs and get it to spit it out for you.

3. Download the gear from somewhere online. bostongear.com has all their gears available online.

For this year's robot we used option 3. I downloaded the gear I wanted from Boston gear, then traced over the tooth in Solidworks (eliminating splines with simple arcs, so it would import cleaner into our laser cutter's NC program). I grabbed this sketch, dropped it into a new sheetmetal part and away we went...

-JohnA few more options: It's surprisingly easy to generate a real involute using equations; this (http://web.archive.org/web/20071011214323/http://www.profilesmagazine.com/p33/marsalek.html) and this (http://www.ptc.com/company/news/inprint/articles/1999_04_84.htm) explain how to do it in Pro/E (but any CAD software ought to be able to do the same).
If you can make do with an approximation instead, either follow the second method in the link above, or get GearGen (I think it's shareware*) from here (http://www.mfgworld.com/fileid.html) or here (ftp://ftp.bu.edu/pub/mirrors/simtelnet/msdos/cad/geargn11.zip). (It's a DOS program, so the interface might be a little unfamiliar nowadays....) This makes a sort of segmented polyline when exporting, with arcs that (as near as I can determine) are approximate. But thanks to modern, fast computers, you can create an arbitrarily large gear and scale it down to whatever degree of precision you need—so this isn't a problem so long as your CAM software won't choke on the geometry. (Note that all of those facets will make 3-D CAD really slow to regenerate; use the equation in that case, or just approximate it for visual purposes.)

*Does anyone even use that term anymore?

[JVN]

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.


Another from this series which highlights the Drive Module layout.
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-drive-module.html

-John

[MrForbes]

Nice drive module!

for making that strange gear for the arm lifter....you could also get the arm gear from a door window regulator from a car, and trace it onto the aluminum

http://images2.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/archive/pictures/44877/600/1/P/28C253A/chevy_cavalier_window_regulator_front_right_oem_22 621948.jpg

[sdcantrell56]

Why did you decide to ditch the drop down perpendicular omni wheel this year? I would think strafing would be the only upside to this whole switching drivetrain

[hurtzmyhead]

Why did you decide to ditch the drop down perpendicular omni wheel this year? I would think strafing would be the only upside to this whole switching drivetrain

Im not sure that they did: Looks like they can go side to side (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XECmOwmYiu8&t=1m7s)

if im mistaken and it does not have a 5th omni to go side to side... here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XECmOwmYiu8&t=2m35s) it shows the robot "auto magically" lining up to the pole.

[tim-tim]

Why did you decide to ditch the drop down perpendicular omni wheel this year? I would think strafing would be the only upside to this whole switching drivetrain

From the blog on the drive module, he states that there is a reduction through gears and another through chain. This essential provides a two speed transmission with two different driving characteristics. This will allow for a change of speed and torque. The omni-wheels still provide more degrees of freedom for the robot to move in, than IFI traction wheels.

There are plenty of advantages to this system. I really like this system and hope to develop something similar in the off-season.

-Tim

[Chris is me]

From the blog on the drive module, he states that there is a reduction through gears and another through chain. This essential provides a two speed transmission with two different driving characteristics. This will allow for a change of speed and torque. The omni-wheels still provide more degrees of freedom for the robot to move in, than IFI traction wheels.


If there is no powered movement in the lateral direction, they don't. However, I'm tempted to believe that 148 did put in the "kicker drive". I just don't see why they would choose an articulating drive like this if they couldn't strafe controllably.

I really like how the traction wheels are geared differently than the omni wheels. Simpler than shifting indeed!

[tim-tim]

@ Chris, you do bring bring up a valid point. However, the omni-wheels will allow for a more maneuverable robot. This is what I was trying to say. Thanks for catching that

[Joe G.]

I can imagine that the all-omni wheel drivetrain would create a nice "drift" effect when turning around during high-speed motion, a maneuver that can be seen at about 1:44 in their video. I can imagine that this will come in handy, due to the "back and forth" nature of driving in this game, and that this may have actually been hampered by the kicker wheel.

CAD drawings that flash by all feature a kicker wheel, as well as many practice bot pictures. But all footage of the final robot seems to place the battery in the center of the robot, in place of the mass of sheet metal that (presumably) supported the sideways wheel.

Also, John mentions a major change to subsystem 1 (the drivetrain) here. (http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/2011-build-day-31.html) Coincidence? Or iterative design?

[JVN]

I can imagine that the all-omni wheel drivetrain would create a nice "drift" effect when turning around during high-speed motion, a maneuver that can be seen at about 1:44 in their video. I can imagine that this will come in handy, due to the "back and forth" nature of driving in this game, and that this may have actually been hampered by the kicker wheel.

CAD drawings that flash by all feature a kicker wheel, as well as many practice bot pictures. But all footage of the final robot seems to place the battery in the center of the robot, in place of the mass of sheet metal that (presumably) supported the sideways wheel.

Also, John mentions a major change to subsystem 1 (the drivetrain) here. (http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/2011-build-day-31.html) Coincidence? Or iterative design?

You got it.
The original drivetrain was a full Nonadrive system, but we ended up removing the sideways wheels around Day 31 (see the blog post linked above). After a week of practice we decided it wasn't necessary. In my mind, all our work and testing since that point has confirmed we made the right decision.

When we removed the middle wheel our original plan was to swap out the 4 primary omni wheels with 6" traction wheels, however... well... we were impressed with what our driver Connor can do with it.

We call this configuration "Butterfly Drive." Which is a joke in reference to how this robot can be pushed sideways while on all omni wheels (obviously when we drop the traction wheels she stops floating like a butterfly and stings like a... you know.)

I don't think all of it's virtues are readily apparent. I assure you there are more reasons to do an articulating drive than moving sideways. Though I realize most other teams may not value the same things we do, and as such may not make the same tradeoffs we did.

We love "traction mode" and it's virtues in autonomous and driver control. We love the simplicity and modularity of this module design. We love how the drivetrain performs on all omni-wheels (super efficient geartrain + 4 omni wheels = smooth like butter). We're very happy with what we ended up with...

-John

[sanddrag]

I remember way back to 2003, team 980 had a similar drive system in which they raised or lowered two different sets of wheels to essentially have two different final drive speeds/ratios.

[Manoel]

I remember way back to 2003, team 980 had a similar drive system in which they raised or lowered two different sets of wheels to essentially have two different final drive speeds/ratios.

Team 810 did the same thing in 2002, from what I remember.

[sdcantrell56]

While I think its cool shifting wheels instead of shifting gears, I don't really see how it is simpler at all. A transmission is quite compact and requires a small amount of force to shift versus needing enough force to lift the robot to drop down the traction wheels. The only potential benefit I see of this system without the perpendicular omni wheel is the ability to change the center of rotation although the benefit of that wouldn't necessarily be worth the added weight of the system.

JVN given that you ended up taking out the 5th omni wheel would you stick with this drive if you could do it over or go with a more conventional 6 or 8wd with shifting transmission?

[AdamHeard]

While I think its cool shifting wheels instead of shifting gears, I don't really see how it is simpler at all. A transmission is quite compact and requires a small amount of force to shift versus needing enough force to lift the robot to drop down the traction wheels. The only potential benefit I see of this system without the perpendicular omni wheel is the ability to change the center of rotation although the benefit of that wouldn't necessarily be worth the added weight of the system.

JVN given that you ended up taking out the 5th omni wheel would you stick with this drive if you could do it over or go with a more conventional 6 or 8wd with shifting transmission?

From a fabrication standpoint for a team with limited resources, it is far easier. Having worked through the "fun" of getting the speeds right for multiple gearboxes, it is also nice in that it is easier to change the difference between high and low gear.

Utlizing COTS gearboxes and wheels, a team with a drill press (or even a hand drill), could make such a drivetrain.

[Chris is me]

Utlizing COTS gearboxes and wheels, a team with a drill press (or even a hand drill), could make such a drivetrain.

While it can be done with less resources, I'd be worried about these low resource teams trying this, mainly because wheel pod side loading is a pretty big concern with this style of drivetrain.

By the way, the above blog post refers to large performance gains with the removal of the 5th wheel. What are those gains?

[Andrew Schreiber]

While it can be done with less resources, I'd be worried about these low resource teams trying this, mainly because wheel pod side loading is a pretty big concern with this style of drivetrain.

By the way, the above blog post refers to large performance gains with the removal of the 5th wheel. What are those gains?

Depends on the way you place your wheels. Obviously if you use omni wheels as your dropped wheels you will slide rather than break the pods. If you use traction wheels the problem becomes more significant.

[Chris is me]

Depends on the way you place your wheels. Obviously if you use omni wheels as your dropped wheels you will slide rather than break the pods. If you use traction wheels the problem becomes more significant.

Yes, but the system is designed around giving the traction wheels a higher reduction, so they aren't the natural choice to be directly driven / the pivot point.

Unless, of course, you've put the CIM on the module... like 148 does...

[JVN]

Depends on the way you place your wheels. Obviously if you use omni wheels as your dropped wheels you will slide rather than break the pods. If you use traction wheels the problem becomes more significant.

This was something we learned last year, which is why the Generation 3 & 4 drivetrains have stationary traction wheels and actuated omni wheels. When we're in traction mode if we take a hit, all the load gets transferred straight into the chassis.

This layout comes with its own set of challenges and constraints, but we like it a lot more.

-John

[Dad1279]

While it can be done with less resources, I'd be worried about these low resource teams trying this, mainly because wheel pod side loading is a pretty big concern with this style of drivetrain.

By the way, the above blog post refers to large performance gains with the removal of the 5th wheel. What are those gains?

Not to hi-jack, but that's how we did it, Drill press and bandsaw. Only machined parts are the two plates. Traction wheels direct drive, larger mecanums raised and lowered. 1-CIM 1-775 per module.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/18d/18d8860edfc8dd371a3ccebe108f1204_m.jpg

Side loading is not a problem, as the traction wheels are mounted conventionally with a bearing on both sides of shaft, and the mecanums are braced with sideplates/slides. Obviously not all is shown in this rendering.

[JVN]

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.


Another in this series:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-bearing-retainers.html

Want to retain a flanged bearing? Drill some holes and rivet a washer over the flange.

-John

[Alex Cormier]

Another in this series:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/02/inside-raptor-bearing-retainers.html

Want to retain a flanged bearing? Drill some holes and rivet a washer over the flange.

-John

Did you also replace the bolts in the AM omnis with rivets?

[Greg Needel]

Did you also replace the bolts in the AM omnis with rivets?

Yes we did and they haven't failed us yet. Not sure how much weight we saved by doing this but anything we can do to save a little bit is worth the effort. Additionally by doing this it was and opportunity to check each roller to make sure it rolled freely.

[Madison]

Team 810 did the same thing in 2002, from what I remember.

810 used 9" Bead-lok wheels for its main drive and lowered two absurdly wide belts to the ground for pushing. I don't recall the overall ratios, but the difference between the wheels and belts was 3:1.

[Captaindan]

haha fusion answered the call for awsome funchional leds check it out at the bayou regional ladies and gentlemen

[lynca]

Yes we did and they haven't failed us yet. Not sure how much weight we saved by doing this but anything we can do to save a little bit is worth the effort. Additionally by doing this it was and opportunity to check each roller to make sure it rolled freely.

I've noticed that our omni rollers eventually stop spinning. We have tried loosening the screws but sometimes we have to change the rollers completely.

How often do you guys swap out rollers ?

Did you notice any difference between riveting omnis instead of screws ?

[Akash Rastogi]

On the topic of plate gears, I remembered that 1771 had plate gears integrated into their turreted shooter's hood. The entire thing was also turreted on a huge laser cut sprocket. Guess they should've published some documentation on their robots! What a dominant machine they had that year.

I'm hoping 1477 and 2415 also have some cool integrated components in the coming seasons.

For anyone interested, it was a simple but pretty cool application.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/__ArY7hvTSao/SYjsm7l_d4I/AAAAAAAABac/GdUlxTf3KQM/s512/DSC00013.JPG

[Andrew Schreiber]

On the topic of plate gears, I remembered that 1771 had plate gears integrated into their turreted shooter's hood. The entire thing was also turreted on a huge laser cut sprocket. Guess they should've published some documentation on their robots! What a dominant machine they had that year.

I'm hoping 1477 and 2415 also have some cool integrated components in the coming seasons.


For anyone who is feeling left out on the laser-cutty-goodness you can achieve a similar effect by taking a length of timing belt and wrapping your circular surface in it with the teeth facing out. It isn't as effective as having the teeth laser cut but for low torque applications it does work. 2337 use this approach somewhere on their 2009 robot (I'll snap a pic next time I am down there).

[jwfoss]

The adjustable length four bar link is a really slick trick. I've had that sketched out in my engineering notebook since the first time I ever saw that done back in 2008 at FLR. They had an adjustable lower link to stay within the sizing rules and to tilt the gripper up, whereas you adjust your upperlink to actuate your wrist. Also I believe theirs may have been passive (gas shock) where your is pnuematically adjusted.

FRC67 - HOT from 2008
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/30680

[pwnageNick]

This robot is awesome. My first year of FRC was last year, and I remember being very frightened after seeing your promo video last year. I can't wait to see how you guys do at Alamo this weekend. Good luck this season 148, 2949 can't wait to see you guys perform at Worlds!

[Redo91]

You guys always impress.

Are you not worried with getting pushed too easily from the side when your traction wheels are up?
How well does the robot turn when the traction wheels are down?

I wish I could see your robot in person.

[Adam Freeman]

The adjustable length four bar link is a really slick trick. I've had that sketched out in my engineering notebook since the first time I ever saw that done back in 2008 at FLR. They had an adjustable lower link to stay within the sizing rules and to tilt the gripper up, whereas you adjust your upperlink to actuate your wrist. Also I believe theirs may have been passive (gas shock) where your is pnuematically adjusted.

FRC67 - HOT from 2008
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/30680

Unfortunately our 2008 adjustable lower link design never made it passed our practice field. The mechanical implementation on that design (PVC and gas shocks) had a serious transition phase that caused our programmers fits. We ended up re-designing the lower arm and replacing it with a solid link as soon as it came out of the crate Thursday morning @ FLR.

Raptor's adjustable arm is much more elegant and functional than that HOT '08 adjustable arm ever dreamed of being.

[JVN]

After receiving a number of requests in response to this post, I decided to highlight some of the subtle parts of this year's design on my blog as part of an "Inside Raptor" series.

Another post in this series, my last before we take her out of the bag tomorrow morning at the Alamo regional:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/03/inside-raptor-arm-potentiometer.html

Our programmers accuse me of having a mental block which keeps me from designing sensors into the robot. To them I say: "BAGH!"

Good Luck to everyone who competes in week 1!
Raptor has one more big surprise up her sleeve which is ready to go. See you on the field ;)

-John

[JesseK]

Hmm. More compactness (potentially):

1. Fix 2 long VEX metal pieces to the dead axle of the arm such that one of the square holes is concentric with the axle. The hole will have to be enlarged of course. The two pieces of metal should be far enough apart that the slop is minimized, regardless of whether the potentiometer gear is cantilevered or dual-supported.
2. Attach the VEX gear to the arm, as shown.
3. Attach the potentiometer and the potentiometer gear to the VEX metal using appropriate spacing for the chosen gears. The spacing is built-in since it's VEX.
4. Profit.

We've always had issues with potentiometers since we can't seem to keep them from slipping in the shafts we directly mount them to (thus needing to recalibrate them). Or the rubber band / polycord belts we make slip. It results in a bad calibration. Maybe we can try VEX this off season. Right now we use limit switches with encoders -- not too bad coding-wise, but man that's a lot of little wires to run.

[Travis Hoffman]

We've always had issues with potentiometers since we can't seem to keep them from slipping in the shafts we directly mount them to (thus needing to recalibrate them).

Quite evil, that.

Cross-drill a hole through the pot shaft and the mechanism shaft, and secure with a cotter pin or other suitable clip, bolt, whatever.

[ChuckDickerson]

148 just scored 2 uber tubes BY THEMSELVES in autonomous during match number 55 at Alamo! Now folks, THAT defines just how uber cool 148 are!

[waialua359]

Nice job!
That's two teams now that can score 2 in auto.
The other being that one Michigan team that posted a video of it.:rolleyes:

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Hey John that's a pretty cool piece of SOFTWARE you've got there. ;)

[JVN]

Some video of Raptor in the elimination rounds of the 2011 Alamo Regional:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/03/san-antonio-2011-video.html

Check out Final 1 for a glimpse of the week 1 national high score, and our 2 tube autonomous mode.

[tim-tim]

The 2012 release should be in the near future.

Correction, the much anticipated 2012 release should be in the near future, and I can't wait.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Aww. Got me excited over last year's robot. :(

[stundt1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3jeR_CfC-I&feature=channel

There human player has skill.

[its da PAT!!!]

Aww. Got me excited over last year's robot. :(

I know right? I saw that and got so excited. lol

[V_Chip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3jeR_CfC-I&feature=channel

There human player has skill.

Isn't he from 118 Robonauts?

[s_forbes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3jeR_CfC-I&feature=channel

There human player has skill.

I see a robot in the background that may be of interest.

[Peyton Yeung]

I see a robot in the background that may be of interest.

Looks like a wide base

[V_Chip]

I see a robot in the background that may be of interest.

I see a wide config bot :)

[CalTran]

Aww. Got me excited over last year's robot. :(
I'm thinking the same thing.
Replay of the last few moments:
:eek: 148 released their robot already?? :confused: *reads thread* :mad: I got played.

[Walter Deitzler]

Looks like a wide base

It is definetly a wide base.
I almost mistook it for the Raptor when I first saw it, becuase of the triangular frame. I wonder how it looks...:confused:

[V_Chip]

It is definetly a wide base.
I almost mistook it for the Raptor when I first saw it, becuase of the triangular frame. I wonder how it looks...:confused:

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa476/V_Chip/

[tim-tim]

Sorry for the false hope guys. It is not unusual for 148 to release their robot soon after the ship/bag&tag deadline.

I will agree that it does appear to be a wide based robot. However, I would not put it past JVN and Greg to have placed a 'fake' robot in the back corner to create discussion...

I am just waiting on how simple their design will be (as always, simple, clean, and effective).

[Walter Deitzler]

It looks as if they have a tall bridge lowering arm or ball manipulator running up the front, then a shooter tower behind it. The image is too fuzzy to make out anything from there.

[ChristopherSD]

Would it upset you all if I mentioned that this is their 2011 robot?

[BrendanB]

Would it upset you all if I mentioned that this is their 2011 robot?

The picture in the video is not their 2011 based on the bumper configuration but i would laugh if they put a hole in them as a joke for the video!

[akoscielski3]

Would it upset you all if I mentioned that this is their 2011 robot?

No cause you would be wrong. Their bumpers had to be all the way around last year and had numbers in the middle of bumpers. This clearly isnt.