Dragonfly's First Flight

[Akash Rastogi]

Tired of watching the same old roller claw robot play around with tubes?!? :D Well, from South Philly High School, the Rambots team 3553 present Dragonfly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtUw_cJ0gCs

Two weekends worth of work on this guy. We're still tweaking. (Don't mind the title of the video, it was our first run :p )

FAQ-
1) Can it turn with the wings down? Answer- no, but we already knew this.

2) Will you be passing tubes? Answer- yessir

Feel free to ask other questions. We are proud of our unique design and even more proud that we stuck with it and pulled it off.

Judging by the video posted by 126 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLEWiEHinY), I think we'll be able to effectively shut down a match.

Enjoy! Personally my favorite part of the video is the end lol. "What was that sound?"

[thefro526]

Judging by the video posted by 126 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLEWiEHinY), I think we'll be able to effectively shut down a match.



I believe you are correct.

After watching some videos from the pre-ship scrimages, it looks like any obstruction in between the towers is going to be a pain, now make that obstruction nearly seven feet wide and immovable, and you've got an even bigger pain on your hands.

Needless to say, I have no desire to play against 3553. You're more than welcome to come over to our side though. ;)

[Akash Rastogi]

Always appreciate the praise, Dustin. What I haven't appreciated is hearing about some people who heavily dislike our strategy and feel it is not within "the spirit of the game." We have no intention of breaking others robots through aggressive play nor does our drivetrain have that capability, we will be playing peaceful passive defense on the field. It is hurtful when you put in work and follow through with a risky design, and people feel the need to put down your work. (sorry had to vent that out).

[Karthik]

Always appreciate the praise, Dustin. What I haven't appreciated is hearing about some people who heavily dislike our strategy and feel it is not within "the spirit of the game." We have no intention of breaking others robots through aggressive play nor does our drivetrain have that capability, we will be playing peaceful passive defense on the field. It is hurtful when you put in work and follow through with a risky design, and people feel the need to put down your work. (sorry had to vent that out).

Haters gonna hate. Just ignore them, they're not worth your time. Congrats on taking the road less traveled.

[sdcantrell56]

Akash I would totally hate to play against you guys because I have a feeling your bot would annoy me to no end but thats only because it would majorly complicate placing our usual amount of tubes.

CD is kinda full of haters these days so don't worry about it and just stick to your gameplan. I have a feeling you guys will be playing saturday afternoon!

[Akash Rastogi]

PS- To ensure that we stayed "within the spirit of the game" we sacrificed a good couple pounds by adding bumpers to our outriggers in the spirit of gracious professionalism because we don't want to damage other robots. We could easily lose 10 pounds in extra bumper weight if we didn't care at all and save us a lot of headaches. 357's mentors kept asking us why we are wasting weight by adding those- it is because we all agreed that it will keep everyone happy.

[Rich Kressly]

it will keep everyone happy.

Unfortunately, this is most likely not true, however the effort will be something your whole team will be able to look in the mirror about and say, "we did all we could and we're proud of our team, strategy, and design." As Karthik put so well, after that, no worries - dissenters aren't worth your time.

Best wishes to Dragonfly and the team.

[PayneTrain]

Hey man, 422 got into eliminations last year for having a purely defensive robot. In fact, we might have been ranked second both times, behind 1676 each of those times. I always heard secondhand grumbles about our blocking and pinning.

FRC always has many angles in which to approach the game. Pick the one you think will make the best show in regionals.

[rsegrest]

Cool looking bot!

The only question I have is if you are playing this defense in the middle of the field then aren't you also running the risk of shutting (or at least majorly slowing down) your alliance parnters?

[Ryan Dognaux]

What I haven't appreciated is hearing about some people who heavily dislike our strategy and feel it is not within "the spirit of the game."

They are just afraid of you guys completely shutting down the field. Haters gonna hate, let them voice their opinions publicly if they feel that strongly about this robot. Let me remind people that this is a completely legal, valid strategy. If you're going to be mad at anyone, be mad at the GDC, not a rookie team building an effective robot within their means.

That being said, I can't wait to see it in action during week 5 at the Philly regional.

[AlexGrant]

Great job guys! My team, 3042, built a robot similar to yours in that we both have fold down wings. Our team has always tried to build a more defensive robot in our 3 years of competing due them being typically easier to build with our limited resources and shop tools.

On Saturday we went to a practice regional at another local high school (Simley High School, 2518), and we were met with a multitude of opinions. It is disheartening to hear people say your robot is against the spirit of the game, but everyone interprets the rules differently and that is the beauty of FIRST. People are just jealous when you can stop multiple robots from doing anything for a whole match. :)

Keep up the good work guys, looking forward to watching your matches on the blue alliance.

p.s. I will try to get some pictures of our robot today here if I can make it to our shop, Snow storm will probably be keeping me out however.

[Akash Rastogi]

Yes I did hear about your robot from 1625. You have mechanums right?

[AlexGrant]

Yeah we do, and we love them, heh. What did you guys hear about us?

[Akash Rastogi]

Yeah we do, and we love them, heh. What did you guys hear about us?

Nothing really, just that there is a similar robot in your state as ours but with mechanums.

Have you guys completed the robot yet and had it fully functioning during a scrimmage match? I'm curious to see video of a similar setup in action in a real match.

[AlexGrant]

Yeah we had it running for almost the whole day, only issues we had were with our D-link that burned out. I will ask around and see if anyone recorded a video of it at the matches.

[HannahF]

I'm so happy to see this running.:D I have loved this design since day 1 and I am really proud of you guys for sticking with it and pulling it off.

I have no doubt that you guys will do well at Philly, and don't let the haters get you down, they are just jealous because your design truly is ingenious ;)

~Hannah

[Akash Rastogi]

Thanks Hannah. And thank you to 433 for helping the Rambots during the initial week of build.

[George A.]

I've always been a fan of defensive strategies from the first defensive game I was part of (Zone Zeal...I joined in 01, but that game had no defense).

I don't mean the "ram until your bot breaks" defense but the "we'll get in your way until your head explodes from frustration" defense. So I can't wait to see how this bot plays in Philly....and if Akash had something to do with it? IT'll be good!

[Ian Curtis]

This rowboat looks like it will float. :)

After watching video from scrimmages, it seems like this will be a pretty low scoring game. No doubt you guys will play a big part in this. I just hope for your sake you don't go early on the way back up the serpentine to a team who doesn't know whats up, because you'll definitely be memorable...

[thefro526]

....and if Akash had something to do with it? IT'll be good!

Or it'll talk a good game and then not do anything? :p

I kid, I kid. (<3 you Stogi bro.)

[Akash Rastogi]

Or it'll talk a good game and then not do anything? :p

I kid, I kid. (<3 you Stogi bro.)

Well then fortunately for 3553, I won't be at the regional until Saturday. :rolleyes:

[rcmolloy]

Stogi bro, good stuff man. I know we've been at that for a long time talking about the bot but man does it look good.

I definitely do NOT want to be on the other side of the field of 3553 during Philly.

Oh yeah, by the way, I love you?

[Lil' Lavery]

All you guys are strange, I personally look forward to playing against this machine in Philadelphia. It should make for an interesting change in the style, and will certainly help test the limits of 1712's robots and drivers. Should be fun.

[MaxMax161]

Hey man, 422 got into eliminations last year for having a purely defensive robot. In fact, we might have been ranked second both times, behind 1676 each of those times. I always heard secondhand grumbles about our blocking and pinning.

FRC always has many angles in which to approach the game. Pick the one you think will make the best show in regionals.

*innocent whistle about team number*

We decided to go with a more offensive tube scoring robot this year but I can see some great elim alliances because of a solid defensive backbone, or tube shuttle.

That's a really great strategy for defense, good work.

[Grim Tuesday]

Whats your drivetrain? How easilly can you be pushed when you have the wings down?

Our robot should counter your type of robot, think of it as a defense-defense (meta defense!).

Im curious, can you guys be pushed around by a robot with treads on supershifters?


EDIT: I also love the idea of your robot. Totally within the spirit of the game, I hope you win Philly, and some awards for innovation too.

[Lil' Lavery]

Whats your drivetrain? How easilly can you be pushed when you have the wings down?

Our robot should counter your type of robot, think of it as a defense-defense (meta defense!).

Im curious, can you guys be pushed around by a robot with treads on supershifters?

I'm about to make several assumptions.

I'm assuming based on your questions that your robot has treads and supershifters. And that your method of "defense-defense" is to attempt to move and/or pin the defensive team (possibly while attempting to score).

My assumption is that's going to exacerbate the problem more than it will solve it in a vast majority of cases. There are likely going to be better ways to work around and counteract this type of defense.

[Akash Rastogi]

Whats your drivetrain? How easilly can you be pushed when you have the wings down?

Our robot should counter your type of robot, think of it as a defense-defense (meta defense!).

Im curious, can you guys be pushed around by a robot with treads on supershifters?


EDIT: I also love the idea of your robot. Totally within the spirit of the game, I hope you win Philly, and some awards for innovation too.

With our wings down, we have 8 wheels perpendicular to an on-coming robot. I don't doubt there are plenty of robots that can push us around, but you are missing the point if you think the goal of the robot is to have pure traction. With the wings up and being pushed inline, someone with supershifters should not have much of a problem with us. We are running 4 toughboxes with the optional reduction on direct driven 8" roughtop plaction wheels. The outrigger wheels are wedgetop 8" plactions.

While pushing most common robots head to head with the wings up, we should be fine.

We are simply a nuisance:p , and we have yet to have any robot to robot contact so I really cannot judge effectiveness of the design yet.

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm about to make several assumptions.

I'm assuming based on your questions that your robot has treads and supershifters. And that your method of "defense-defense" is to attempt to move and/or pin the defensive team (possibly while attempting to score).

My assumption is that's going to exacerbate the problem more than it will solve it in a vast majority of cases. There are likely going to be better ways to work around and counteract this type of defense.

The theory is that if they are playing "back and forth in front of the zones" defense, then we can plough through them.

However, as I look through the scrimmage videos, I see that that type of defense isnt how logomotion defense is going to work: It will most likely be played in the middle zone, delaying teams. A 10 second delay each trip could result in a net loss of up to 12 points, ideally for you guys. Still, like I said, we would like to think that we can plough through you.


Maybe we will get the pleasure to play with you guys in St. Louis (we can dream, right?)

[pfreivald]

All those mecanum bots (like ours) will probably have to tag-team you... You can't be in both places at once *AND* let your own team members through, so you might shut down the entire match tube-wise, which leads me to the following two questions:

1. How good is your autonomous scoring?
2. How good is your minibot?

...because you might just be so darn effective that those are the only points people see (or close to it)!

Good on you guys... I hope your rookie year is memorable and inspirational -- to your own team members, to others in your school, and to everyone else!

[Akash Rastogi]

For us, each match will be a whole different ballgame depending on who we are with and against. Each match will have its own pe-match strategy session so we are synced with our alliance partners on what we want to do.

We will have to be super careful with our strategies and keep watch of when our alliance partners are heading back to the loading zone.

Honestly though, this is what I care about most right now...
I hope your rookie year is memorable and inspirational -- to your own team members, to others in your school, and to everyone else!

These kids need something more significant in their lives. We want to bring them that.

[Robby Unruh]

If only you guys had omni/mecanum's on those "wings", you'd be set. :p

Hey man, 422 got into eliminations last year for having a purely defensive robot. In fact, we might have been ranked second both times, behind 1676 each of those times. I always heard secondhand grumbles about our blocking and pinning.

FRC always has many angles in which to approach the game. Pick the one you think will make the best show in regionals.

This. Our team got by last year with no kicker, and we couldn't hang, get over the bump, or go under the tunnel. We managed to rank 7th out of 60 or so at Buckeye last year. Unfortunately, we lost in the quarters. We had a great rookie season though. Hope 3553's is just as good, if not better.

[Akash Rastogi]

If only you guys had omni/mecanum's on those "wings", you'd be set. :p



This. Our team got by last year with no kicker, and we couldn't hang, get over the bump, or go under the tunnel. We managed to rank 7th out of 60 or so at Buckeye last year. Unfortunately, we lost in the quarters. We had a great rookie season though. Hope 3553's is just as good, if not better.

I'm hoping to just get these kids motivated and thinking in a different light than they are used to. I want them to experience at least a fraction of the good influences I have experienced throughout my time in FIRST and in life.

I am hopeful for a lot of the students. The fact that they show up and some are even from the football team, gives me even more hope.

I hope teams come by and talk to the kids and the other mentors involved with this team so they can feel what they are involved with.

[davidthefat]

Oh man, you know how much I love your bot. Well I like to think of it as more of a goalie than a linebacker. Now imagine 2 similar bots trying to defend the scoring zone (now that is legal, just blocking the SAME bot isn't) as long as one of them is closer to the mid field you are fine.

Honestly: with some great programming with a great AI. You don't even need a driver!

[techtiger1]

To the 3553 crew,

Keep your heads up and never give up on a robot (Thanks Amanda Morrison for passing this on to me a long time ago). What you've accomplished in just days out of the KOP framing with dragonfly is amazing and a testament to how good your team is and can become. As a veteran on a veteran team I can tell you that "smart" defense is usually a great way to go. Show what you can do and do it consistently and you will do well. Always remember to keep working and keep improving.

-Drew D.

[davidthefat]

The Road Not Taken
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

[sammyjalex]

The closer to Philly we get, the more I believe that this design will be incredibly effective. There is so little space between the two towers. I saw defense today at New York almost like a wall. Two robots angled on each side of an opposing scoring robot and pushing back. That scoring robot could do little to nothing. I look forward to seeing what Philly brings, especially after now seeing the great jobs this year already of 816, 369, 395 and 272.

[Akash Rastogi]

816, 369, 395 and 272.

Don't underestimate 1647 either. They will be an even greater force at Philly.

We are very excited to play.:D