Any human player stategies?

[bhoffman11]

I am the human player for FIRST Team 302 and I was looking around for some useful stategies to use. Is anybody using gloves to help grip the tubes while throwing? If so, what kind? (biking, shop, etc.). Any thowing ideas/ techniques? Thank you for your ideas!

[flippy147852]

I have found that the most effective way to throw the tubes (by careful observation of the better human players from the stands) is to throw the tube overhead and perpendicular to the ground. Doing this, our human player can throw them into our safe zone.

[HarveyAce]

I have found that the most effective way to throw the tubes (by careful observation of the better human players from the stands) is to throw the tube overhead and perpendicular to the ground. Doing this, our human player can throw them into our safe zone.

Yeah, throwing the tubes tomahawk style seems to be the best idea for range and accuracy. otherwise the tubes go all over the place and I've seen some bad penalties because the human players were just throwing then helter-skelter.

[EricVanWyk]

There was one human player at the Alamo Regional that hit the scoring table with over half of his throws. This method is suboptimal.

[PAR_WIG1350]

<T25> seems to be saying no gloves, but I'm not 100% sure.

[XaulZan11]

Score on your opponents rack to break up their logos. I'm only half kidding and no idea if this is legal.

[GaryVoshol]

<T25> seems to be saying no gloves, but I'm not 100% sure.
Correct, that would be an item of equipment meant to give an competitive advantage, which is not allowed.

Score on your opponents rack to break up their logos. I'm only half kidding and no idea if this is legal.
Totally illegal:
<G39> ROBOTS and FEEDERS may not SCORE on their opponent's PEGS or descore their opponent‟s GAME PIECES, or interfere with their opponent‟s TOWERS. Violation: PENALTY plus RED CARD.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Score on your opponents rack to break up their logos. I'm only half kidding and no idea if this is legal.

Do not do this, you will get DQed

[bhoffman11]

Well I hit the scorers table during a semifinal match! It was funny, its up on youtube even. I only did it once cuz the square was totally flat. Tomahawk style one handed seems to work for me the best though. I dont understand why everybody's throwing over head with two hands?:confused:



!GRIP IT AND RIP IT!

[delsaner]

I dont understand why everybody's throwing over head with two hands?

Our human player throws two hands over his head, vertically. The intent is to have the square or circle roll to the our scoring rack, so we can just pick them up and score them without a mass amount of driving. Quick scoring.

[racesick222]

I don't even see why you guys are throwing the tubes? Its giving your a opponent a chance to pick them up and score. Also it clutters up the field with tubes making it hard to drive plus there some penalty's you can get. Just feed the tubes through the slots. :o

[Brandon Holley]

I don't even see why you guys are throwing the tubes? Its giving your a opponent a chance to pick them up and score. Also it clutters up the field with tubes making it hard to drive plus there some penalty's you can get. Just feed the tubes through the slots. :o

Oh how much you have to learn young Padawan.

;)

-Brando

[bhoffman11]

I add rotation into my throw. I kind of whip it to add spin so it'll roll or bounce into the safe zone. It goes into the safe or warning zone 90% of the time! I even scored on the mid post too!:D
Kinda depends on personal preference and robot capabilities.

[HarveyAce]

I don't even see why you guys are throwing the tubes? Its giving your a opponent a chance to pick them up and score. Also it clutters up the field with tubes making it hard to drive plus there some penalty's you can get. Just feed the tubes through the slots. :o

There are a surprising amount of teams that can't pick up off the floor. However, if you rely on the feeder lane, I push a tube into the lane, and you can no longer get to the slot. that has seemed to work surprisingly well in some of the regionals so far. plus, I'll take a 5-6 second throw, pick up tube, and score versus a 10-20 (a lot of times more than that!) second drive get tube from slot, try and maneuver back to your zone, hope no one is defending you, then try and score. I'd take the former any day.

[racesick222]

Oh how much you have to learn young Padawan.

;)

-Brando

OK Brandon check this out wait for the last ten seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I52nJ5bJYkU

[bhoffman11]

true, but it all depends on the robots. most people throw cuz its bringing the tubes to them and a opposing robot can easily trap you inside your isolated zone while ur team goes without that precious tube. Plus if you throw, you could knock other tubes out of the opposing bot's hands (or just hit them for fun.) ;)

When all else fails, just shift into crawler gear and push!

[lwhipker]

Another question I had was what the human player in the analyst position does.

Is it just the human player the other teams in the alliance assume to have worse throwing skills or are there other factors going into the decision about which human player is an analyst?

Hard to tell from the videos.

[Brian Ha]

Extra Eyes

[lwhipker]

Extra eyes is great -- but to communicate with who? The coaches, the drivers, their own team/alliance teams, the feeders at the other end?

Did anyone competing last week have a helpful (or even great!) analyst in any of their alliances?

[Siri]

There's actually a thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93289) with some insights on the analyst role. At Week 1 most teams didn't use them much at all, though in some cases I and some other coaches found them helpful for communicating with Feeders.

[GCentola]

Extra eyes is great -- but to communicate with who? The coaches, the drivers, their own team/alliance teams, the feeders at the other end?

Did anyone competing last week have a helpful (or even great!) analyst in any of their alliances?

We often used our own team's HP as analyst, and he provided time calls, relative score updates (whether we were up or down, and by about how much), and was able to scan the field and inform me of any nearby tubes, if anyone else was going to the tower and much useful info. Point being: Analyst = great, if you use it right

[George Nishimura]

Control supply of game pieces. watch both scoring grids, and watch your teams robot. Don't gift possession to the other team.

You can also be another pair of eyes for lining up the minibot and for picking up tubes.

[Koko Ed]

You should throw tubes across the field if:
* consistently get them to your safe zone or at the very least to the other side of the field.
* You have a good to excellent floor pick up on your robot or the robots on your alliance or your opposing alliance is not very good at picking up from the floor.


Do Not throw tubes across the field if:
*Your throws are weak and end up on the same side of the field as yourself or worse in the opposing alliance's scoring zone (this happened in Florida with an alliance in the elims)
* You have a weak to non existing floor pick up on your robot or the robots on your alliance or your opposing alliance is better at picking up from the floor than your alliance is.
* Your throws are going over into the opposing loading lanes where your robots cannot go or your throws are flying everywhere and crashing into judges and the scoring table at the sides (or just going straight up into the air or having a glass shot bounce right back straight into your face).


Also if you are an analyst you should engage your feeder FROM THE DRIVERS STATION during a match. Not in their feeder station on the opposite side of the field. And when the referee spots you and tells you to go back to your station you do it immediately!
Also there should be one person to a feeder station and don't touch the tubes til the tel-operated period begins.

[Travis Hoffman]

I saw 291's feeder and others in Pittsburgh getting good distance and accuracy by throwing tubes over their heads backwards, facing away from the field.

[Hurband]

Our Human Player certainly made a huge contribution to the success of 525 at the Greater Kansas City Regional this weekend in both qualification and elimination matches. Check out some video from MORE.net (qualification semi-finals 1 was high score for entire regional).

Our player, who is wellover 6 ft tall, grips the game pieces with 2 hands from the very corner and throws backwards. we call it the "French Fling" as he is an exchange student from France.

He was able to put gamepieces in the safe zone with amazing accuracy. Note that he had practiced this technique for may weeks and we knew that it was a big part of our plan for success this year. The circles travel the most predictably and furthest but with proper release the triangle and square generally end up where we or our alliance parnters could quickly pick them up.

We also used placards to let the human players know which gamepiece was required.

By the end of the regional several other human players were using the "French Fling".

[bhoffman11]

Well I'm 6ft 6in and I am exactly the same height as the feeder wall! :)
I tried over the back, but it ended badly. I ended hitting an opposing robot and almost knocking the router off. :ahh:
Is it illegal to hit other robots with tubes or to try to hit the tubes out of the bot's hands? or try to ring them and get them a penalty of carrying 2 tubes?
Also, does anybody know a way to relieve a sore shoulder during a competition? (maybe even when your on the field)
Icy hot?
Shoulder brace?
compression?
good ol' ice?

[ATH1RSTYM00SE]

What i have found success doing was throwing tomahawk style except since i have the gift of being tall what i try and do is reach as high up as i can and throw the square and circle downwards so the bounce is as close to the feed station as possible. I also try to put a fair amount of spin on the tubes by gripping what would be the top when i wind up and i to an extent flick the tube on the way out of my hands. Doing this resulted in a fair amount of my throws landing in the safe zone accurately and where i wanted them. with this method i even hit one of our alliance members in the semi finals match with a tube that they essentially caught with their gripper. hope this helped

[bhoffman11]

Yeah, I like to throw one handed and since i also have such big hands, I can grip it one handed. Spin is the key with the squares and triangles, since they can't really roll, but bounce. I also flick it near the top to add that spin to get it all the way down the field!
What also might work is to look at golf websites, magizines, or talk to ur schools golf team. Throwing these tubes i found is pretty much the same form and rotation as a golf swing. (although i do have a slice in golf, I have a slice in throwing :rolleyes:) Practice rotation, arm position, and arm movement to get a added whip effect. thanks for your reply. it really helped! :cool:

[GiannaLeigh3]

Since I am sooo short compared to most of the guys that are human players(I'm only 5'4"), I have to take a big step or two before throwing the tube. I also have to arch my back and snap it forward while throwing the tube with both hands above my head! (: Does anyone like throwing one tube more than the other tubes? I find throwing the square easier than the triangle. And the circle way easier to throw than both.

[CassCity2081]

Just from watching some regional videos I was just wondering if throwing the tubes is the best strategy? I saw many teams that tried to throw the tubes and ended up not getting them far enough and giving the other team easy scores. I would appreciate any help from teams who have already been to a regional.

[Sunshine]

Just from watching some regional videos I was just wondering if throwing the tubes is the best strategy? I saw many teams that tried to throw the tubes and ended up not getting them far enough and giving the other team easy scores. I would appreciate any help from teams who have already been to a regional.

I believe that it is critical that you train your human players to get good at throwing accurate tubes. With practice it is not that hard to get 8 out 9 in a position you want.

[ATH1RSTYM00SE]

I saw 291's feeder and others in Pittsburgh getting good distance and accuracy by throwing tubes over their heads backwards, facing away from the field.

I don't believe backwards is the best strategy because this takes away your ability to aim and often resulted in embarrassing failures such as hitting the feeder station, hitting the minibot tower, or missing the field completely.

[GiannaLeigh3]

I feel like throwing tubes is the best option. At the Manchester Regional we did try both throwing the tubes and feeding them, and feeding them definelty worked best for us. Throwing the tubes cut down on the time it takes to collect the tube, if they are well thrown. However, if your human player isn't that good you can get penalties for throwing the tubes out too many times. Feeding the tubes can be slower because the robot has to go all the way across the field each time. Also if you drop a tube in the feed lane, a robot might not be able to get close enough to the feed slot to collect a tube( wee noticed a few of the teams had to be basically touching the wall in order to collect the tube). If the other alliance has a robot playing defensivly it can be a real time consuming pain to get down the field and collect the tubes from the feed slots. Also, if your hand goes even the littlest bit through the slot to feed the robot a tube, it is a penalty.

[Eagleeyedan]

Score on your opponents rack to break up their logos. I'm only half kidding and no idea if this is legal.

Someone did that at our regional in our match for us! She scored the triangle in the right place for us to complete our logo! It bumped the top of the wall just as she threw it and it tumbles onto our pegs.

[Eagleeyedan]

Has anyone seen the analyst doing anything? It seemed to me that they just stood there but I could be wrong. I only saw 3 matches.

[NCSUMAN]

Would height give an advantage for throwing tubes?

[Eagleeyedan]

Would height give an advantage for throwing tubes?

Yes it helps a lot.

[Koko Ed]

Has anyone seen the analyst doing anything? It seemed to me that they just stood there but I could be wrong. I only saw 3 matches.

I saw an analyst standing in the feeder station instructing on of his feeders during the match, get told by the ref to go back to his side of the field hang out at the edge of the field and then be instructed by me to go back to their station immediately.
The analyst might be the most useless thing done with the human player since 2008.

[Eagleeyedan]

I saw an analyst standing in the feeder station instructing on of his feeders during the match, get told by the ref to go back to his side of the field hang out at the edge of the field and then be instructed by me to go back to their station immediately.
The analyst might be the most useless thing done with the human player since 2008.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[flyingcrayons]

ive noticed a lot of people trying to throw it over their heads. this works as long as your human player can pull it off. 25 did pretty well with it (there were some wayward throws).. there was one human player that probably should stick to watching where he throws the tubes. he managed to hit the station wall, have the tube go back over his head, and all the way back into the stands! he continued to hit the station wall because he wasnt looking at the field when he threw and his angle was too low. so just be careful with that strategy.

[Siri]

I saw an analyst standing in the feeder station instructing on of his feeders during the match, get told by the ref to go back to his side of the field hang out at the edge of the field and then be instructed by me to go back to their station immediately.
The analyst might be the most useless thing done with the human player since 2008.I remember this at FLR. As long as the Analyst knows the rules though, they can at least be marginally helpful (or not unhelpful) with some alliances in relying coaches' tube requests. My HPs did have a few analysts they liked. Granted, I didn't have as many as a coach (please stop yelling necessarily, it's loud enough).

Then again, a few teams managed to use Robocoaches in 2008 too. Possibly the same number...

[MaxMax161]

I think that a good human player could really make an alliance. If the scoring bots don't have to worry about getting tubes because all the tubes they'll ever need are always right there then they can score a lot faster. Also, if the human player can consistently get tubes to the right bots and not the wrong ones then it makes it impossible to starve them of tubes. In St. Louis a amazing human player is going to take an elims alliance one, two, or maybe more tiers higher then they would have been.

[bhoffman11]

Has anybody thought of throwing more than one tube at once? is it illegal?

[Grim Tuesday]

Interesting thought, as far as I see, it is legal. "logo package coming through!"


Anyways, the most interesting thing I have seen a human player do was at FLR, quaterfinals, 1126's human player de-scored our tubes. Twice. Yes, should have been a red card, but since we were still pulling back from scoring, the tube was wiggling a bit. Also, we talked about it after the match, it wasnt intentional in the least.

[Lokhagos]

At the San Diego regional one of the red alliance feeders threw a triangle tube that knocked the lighted top off of a minibot tower on another tower. the red alliance had a 90 point lead and still lost because of the damage to the field equipment, and this was during the first match of the quarter-finals.

I realize it is an effective strategy, but unless you have a trained thrower you could end up failing miserably.