Teams to watch out for in week 3

[mwtidd]

After running through the biggest practice matches today I have a few teams worth checking out...

Shows the importance of having both a minibot and a robot.
A good robot with a decent minibot is more valuable than a team with a great robot or a great minibot alone.
Also another interesting observation.. it seems a great robot is better than a great minibot.

Maryland:
1218 (20 pt robot, 10 pt mini) #1 team # 2 robot

Texas:
1477 (18 pt robot, 9 pt mini) #2 team #4 robot

Arizona:
498 (18 pt robot, 8 pt mini) #3 team #5 robot
1165 (25 pt robot, 0 pt mini) #4 team #1 robot

Seattle Cascade:
3587 (9 pt robot, 15 pt mini) # 5 team T10 mini

Boilermaker:
2221 (0 pt robot, 21 pt mini) #1 mini

Kansas City:
1098 (19 pt robot, 0 mini) #3 robot

Sorry to Detroit, Seattle Olympic, Sacramento, and West Michigan...
Your regionals didn't tweet so I don't have data for you.

[nighterfighter]

No love for Peachtree? :(

At Peachtree I'd watch out for 2415,1261,2815.

[mwtidd]

No love for Peachtree? :(

At Peachtree I'd watch out for 2415,1261,2815.

ah sorry.. those weren't tweeted either. It seems FIRST isn't able to keep up with the regional growth. The twitter feed was officially supported in past years, but now that 6 regionals in the first 3 weeks aren't running it is disappointing. Especially considering its automated from the field system, it should be available at every regional.

Do you have any info on 2415,1261,2815? strong robots vs minibots?

[ttldomination]

No love for Peachtree? :(

At Peachtree I'd watch out for 2415,1261,2815.

Ah, modesty. I heard good things about 1771 as well. And no floor pick up my bahookey.

- Sunny

[Jim Zondag]

Detroit,
51, 201, 217, 245, 469
West Michigan
27, 67, 1718, 1918

[mwtidd]

Detroit,
51, 201, 217, 245, 469
West Michigan
27, 67, 1718, 1918

Do you have any info on these teams?
Strength of robot vs minibot....

[Grim Tuesday]

How is 469? I have been yearning to see them play for quite a while!

[Refresh]

How is 469? I have been yearning to see them play for quite a while!

I think they play next week.

[Peyton Yeung]

How is 469? I have been yearning to see them play for quite a while!

We all have been yearning to see them play. They probably have a robot that shoots tubes accurately from one feeder station all the way onto the pegs for points as well as a sub 1 second minibot by this point in time. :yikes:

[BrendanB]

67, 469, and 3126 are my picks for this week.

EDIT:

67 had a rough start, but I'm sure they will come out ready to own this weekend.

469 always has incredible, competitive robots.

3126 was very impressive at the BAE unveiling. They had a very good rookie robot last year and I'm sure this years will impress as well. It was sad not seeing them in NH this year, but I'm sure they will represent NH well in Seattle! GO FLASHPOINT!

[mwtidd]

I'd like this thread to be more objective...
I want to hear peoples insights from the practice matches today.

I don't want this to be just a list of past power players.
If you post teams, I'm curious about your reasons why...

[mwtidd]

I think they play next week.

They compete at detroit

[MagiChau]

Do you have any info on these teams?
Strength of robot vs minibot....

Was watching 67 on the practice field today. They have a smooth forklift arm and was able to successfully deploy their minibot rather quickly.

[Donut]

Arizona:
498 (18 pt robot, 8 pt mini) #3 team #5 robot
1165 (25 pt robot, 0 pt mini) #4 team #1 robot


While I certainly love the publicity, take Arizona's practice match results with a grain of salt. There were so few robots practicing throughout the day, especially the early part (everything before match 15) that they were allowing team drivers to act as "robots" on the field to test the scoring system. Outside of 330 I don't believe anyone even got a minibot up the pole in practice.

[Chris is me]

That no one's mentioned 330 yet in this thread is ludicrous.

[mwtidd]

While I certainly love the publicity, take Arizona's practice match results with a grain of salt. There were so few robots practicing throughout the day, especially the early part (everything before match 15) that they were allowing team drivers to act as "robots" on the field to test the scoring system. Outside of 330 I don't believe anyone even got a minibot up the pole in practice.

Right.... This is why I only selected very specific teams, that looked as though they performed well for practice matches, in which most teams are dead. At the end of tomorrow I should have a much better picture of who the power players are. Also who some valuable underdogs may be. I've had a few team's ask for their specific contributions, and I'm developing a tier structure for all teams. So you can have an idea of how good a team is without even watching a match. That being said this isn't intended to replace real scouting, but rather compliment it. Create an objective metric to compare to subjective metrics.

[Lil' Lavery]

Might as well replace my scouts with a freshman with a twitter account.

[XaulZan11]

Might as well replace my scouts with a freshman with a twitter account.

That's what we plan to do. Not sure what I'll be doing with all my free time at Midwest...maybe wondering why we keep losing without good scouting info.;)

[Techhexium]

That no one's mentioned 330 yet in this thread is ludicrous.
In addition, the absence of team 971 in this thread contributes to the Lunacy, but they don't compete until week 4...

Anyway I'm not too familiar with Sacramento teams but I think teams to watch out for can be 100, 604, and 3256.

[CassCity2081]

Just from the practice matches at Boilermaker today it looks like 1018 and 1501 are both heavy scorers, did not see a lot of minibots though.

I also have high hopes for 2081!

[Akash Rastogi]

Sacramento- 100, 604, 1323, 3256

[Dr Fritz]

ha ha yeah hopfully our mini bot points will creep up tomorrow

[martin417]

Ah, modesty. I heard good things about 1771 as well. And no floor pick up my bahookey.

- Sunny

Not sure what a bahookey is :) , but for the record, we never claimed we didn't have floor pickup, only that it wasn't necessary to have a really good robot.

[XaulZan11]

Looks like 234 has a new fast minibot. They will not only be a team to watch this week, but at St. Louis with that new minibot.

[mwtidd]

Team 365 is dominating MD right now
15 pts robot ,16 pts minibot
probably inflating the the teams its been paired with too

Team 1484 in TX is worth watching
11 pt robot, 10 pt minibot

for boiler:
292
18 pt robot, 13 pt minibot
234
16 pt robot, 12 pt minibot

again the pts are fairly low because they are inflating their teammates, at the end of today I should have better pt values

[BrendanB]

Team 365 is dominating MD right now
15 pts robot ,16 pts minibot
probably inflating the the teams its been paired with too

Team 1484 in TX is worth watching
11 pt robot, 10 pt minibot

for boiler:
292
18 pt robot, 13 pt minibot
234
16 pt robot, 12 pt minibot

again the pts are fairly low because they are inflating their teammates, at the end of today I should have better pt values

How do you have a 16, 12, and 13 point minibot?

[mwtidd]

How do you have a 16, 12, and 13 point minibot?

Thats their estimated value right now. I have an algorithm that pulls out:
ETC: estimated teams contribution
ERC: estimated robots contribution
EMC: estimate minibot contribution

These may be off right now, because of point inflation.
1114 at the end of qualifiers had a 33 pt robot and a 14 pt minibot,
meaning they alone were attributed to on average 47 points per match.

The end up being a good metric of both how good and how reliable a robot was.
I want to eliminate every teams 1 or 2 lowest scores, but the logistics of that are a little tough.

[thefro526]

I'll be very interested to see the Data once all of the Friday matches are over.

No offense, but using practice match data to rank teams is probably not the greatest system...

[AustinSchuh]

In addition, the absence of team 971 in this thread contributes to the Lunacy, but they don't compete until week 4...

Anyway I'm not too familiar with Sacramento teams but I think teams to watch out for can be 100, 604, and 3256.

971 competes in week 5.

1868 is definitely a contender at Sacramento.

[mwtidd]

I'll be very interested to see the Data once all of the Friday matches are over.

No offense, but using practice match data to rank teams is probably not the greatest system...

Oh I didn't intend those rankings to be a *true* ranking of the teams.
I just wanted to show a few teams that were already putting up big #s in the practice matches. Putting up #s in practice matches is a very good sign, as most teams are still working out the kinks at that point. We'll see at the end of today how those teams I picked yesterday did today...

Also ETC only looks at qualifying matches, I was just curious if I used it to measure practice matches what the outcome would be. I also figured there wasn't much harm in saying check out a team. Where as come day 3 if you say a team is a good team, your metrics better be pretty certain of it.

I am working on a little algorithm to act as a alliance selection aid. Obviously accuracy would be much more important at this point than in the case of a heads up.

I think the #s are very important, especially after looking at FRCTop25, in which team 217 is very low ranked, where I would pick them over almost any other team (except 1114).

PR tends to swing the view of many people, having a good number to reference may make teams, that are less visible rise to the top.

Also as it differentiates between minibots and robots, it would help to pick a team thats a better match for your alliance. Again this would be used in collaboration with scouting information.

[XaulZan11]

I think the #s are very important, especially after looking at FRCTop25, in which team 217 is very low ranked, where I would pick them over almost any other team (except 1114).

What makes you feel 217 is ranked too low?

[mwtidd]

What makes you feel 217 is ranked too low?

Looking at their contributions they are in the top 5 tier IMO.

going through the ETCs
1114: 47
217: 41
2056: 39
111:38
148: 37

The top 5 are IMO in a tier of their own.
(I don't have 254's ETC, I really wish I did...)

33: 32

However 33 has emphasized PR and their double cap pushing them into the top 5

217 explicitly chose not to do any PR and keep themselves out of the limelight. However, according to my #s they are the only team with a top 10 minibot and a top 10 robot.

Again I believe 217,2056,111, and 148 are interchangeable.
1114 is in a league of its own.

The difference between 33 and 217 is really the minibot. 217s is worth 17 where as 33s is worth 9

[Ian Curtis]

Looking at their contributions they are in the top 5 tier IMO.

going through the ETCs
1114: 47
217: 41
2056: 39
111:38
148: 37

The top 5 are IMO in a tier of their own.
(I don't have 254's ETC, I really wish I did...)

33: 32

However 33 has emphasized PR and their double cap pushing them into the top 5

217 explicitly chose not to do any PR and keep themselves out of the limelight. However, according to my #s they are the only team with a top 10 minibot and a top 10 robot.

Again I believe 217,2056,111, and 148 are interchangeable.
1114 is in a league of its own.

The difference between 33 and 217 is really the minibot. 217s is worth 17 where as 33s is worth 9

Are you keeping live stats for this weekend? 118 has been jaw-droppingly impressive this weekend. They put up 78 unassisted points in their first match... then they did it again in the 2nd*!

Their OPR has been north of 70 all day, I'm curious to see what their ETC is.

*Someone might've helped feed them tubes in the 2nd match, but for the first match they were the only team on their alliance that made it to the field.

[XaulZan11]

*Someone might've helped feed them tubes in the 2nd match, but for the first match they were the only team on their alliance that made it to the field.

I actually think it is easier for a single robot to look good and score a lot when there isn't another robot trying to score at the same. I've seen 118 twice (as well as several other boring Lone Star matches) and think they have benifited from a lack of scorers and the isolation. I think their most impressive improvement is their new deployment.

[mwtidd]

I actually think it is easier for a single robot to look good and score a lot when there isn't another robot trying to score at the same. I've seen 118 twice (as well as several other boring Lone Star matches) and think they have benifited from a lack of scorers and the isolation. I think their most impressive improvement is their new deployment.

Yeah if they have a new minibot deployment. They will be a monster.

[mwtidd]

Are you keeping live stats for this weekend? 118 has been jaw-droppingly impressive this weekend. They put up 78 unassisted points in their first match... then they did it again in the 2nd*!

Their OPR has been north of 70 all day, I'm curious to see what their ETC is.

*Someone might've helped feed them tubes in the 2nd match, but for the first match they were the only team on their alliance that made it to the field.

Overall for 2011:
etc: 30
erc: 21
emc: 8

total etc goes across all Q matches (including multiple events)
if you look at the contributions on a match by match basis
they are according to that event.

Their still top 25, but Q61 hurt them pretty bad

Q18
etc 46
erc 28
emc 18

Q26
etc 37
erc 17
emc 21

Q35
etc 42
erc 23
emc 19

Q43
etc 45
erc 23
emc 21

Q53
etc 33
erc 18
emc 15

Q61
etc 9
erc 9
emc 0

???? what happened in Q53 and Q61?

[mwtidd]

Detroit:
FIRST 1023
ETC: 38
robot: 18
minibot: 21

Bayou:
FIRST 456
ETC: 31
robot: 24
minibot: 7

St Louis
FIRST 1985
ETC: 29
robot: 15
minibot: 15

FIRST 3284
ETC: 30
robot: 11
minibot: 19

[pfreivald]

340 is kickin' bot at Chesapeake... (And I'm not just saying that because they're a fellow Bausch + Lomb team -- they look very impressive!)

[xSAWxBLADEx]

217 doesnt impress me much this year :/ yes they have a great robot but it's not the best I would say 33, 16, 148, 1918,and 548 (there's a few more I just can't think right now) idk it much just me...please 217 prove me wrong :)

[Paul Copioli]

217 doesnt impress me much this year :/ yes they have a great robot but it's not the best I would say 33, 16, 148, 1918,and 548 (there's a few more I just can't think right now) idk it much just me...please 217 prove me wrong :)


I agree with you 100%. Don't even bother watching us the rest of the season.

[BrendanB]

217 doesnt impress me much this year :/ yes they have a great robot but it's not the best I would say 33, 16, 148, 1918,and 548 (there's a few more I just can't think right now) idk it much just me...please 217 prove me wrong :)

I can't wait to see 217!

[xSAWxBLADEx]

I agree with you 100%. Don't even bother watching us the rest of the season.

lol Paul your funny...One thing I've learned in about 5 years with FIRST never count the Thunder Chickens out :)

[jhusser]

team 125 at the bayou regional can score two tubes on the top row in autonomous. big props to them

[Jimmy the Kidd]

team 125 at the bayou regional can score two tubes on the top row in autonomous. big props to them
It's QUITE impressive. They're having some consistency problems with their autonomous, and with their minibot. It's bordering on sub 2 second times every time, but they're burning up motors. 456, however, finished this first day on top. I'm not sure if 364 (us) was either second or third, but NUTRONS (125), 456, and the rookie team 3411 (Team Intrepid) are killing the competition. Not to be counted out is 1927 (Tempest), and my pick for upset is 1912 (Team Combustion.)


Jimmy

[jhusser]

thats true,ps i dont think 3411 is a rookie team, just new people, once we get are autonomous we can be really good because we allso have a consistent minibot now.

[Pjohn1959]

Team 1484 in TX is worth watching
11 pt robot, 10 pt minibot

1484???

I think you have mis-typed. First team 1477 has been very solid all day, with their autonomous, 2+ logos, and mini bot deployment. The other team struggled to get to floor most of the day.


I actually think it is easier for a single robot to look good and score a lot when there isn't another robot trying to score at the same. I've seen 118 twice (as well as several other boring Lone Star matches) and think they have benifited from a lack of scorers and the isolation. I think their most impressive improvement is their new deployment.


You need to see them in person before making a statement like this. They are incredibly fast and accurate with their scoring, and they have a rock-solid mini bot and deployment system. When they have been teamed up with another good scoring robot, it's scary to watch them in action. I look for them and Team 1477 to get together and win this competition.

[Jimmy the Kidd]

thats true,ps i dont think 3411 is a rookie team, just new people, once we get are autonomous we can be really good because we allso have a consistent minibot now.
Ahhh, right you are. I had them mixed up with Project Viking. Also, get with me tomorrow, #364, and I'll see what I can do to maybe help you guys with your autonomous.

[Grim Tuesday]

340 is kickin' bot at Chesapeake... (And I'm not just saying that because they're a fellow Bausch + Lomb team -- they look very impressive!)

What is with TBA? I can't seem to see any of the match records!

[jhusser]

Ahhh, right you are. I had them mixed up with Project Viking. Also, get with me tomorrow, #364, and I'll see what I can do to maybe help you guys with your autonomous.

yeah definatly thanks well be in touch

[pfreivald]

I agree with you 100%. Don't even bother watching us the rest of the season.

Aw, crap. Y'all realize what this means, right?

The Thunder Chickens have developed a 12V cloaking technology! :ahh:

[CassCity2081]

What is with TBA? I can't seem to see any of the match records!

Try looking on the FIRST website. They have been doing pretty good of updating the matches. No videos though.

[XaulZan11]

You need to see them in person before making a statement like this. They are incredibly fast and accurate with their scoring, and they have a rock-solid mini bot and deployment system. When they have been teamed up with another good scoring robot, it's scary to watch them in action. I look for them and Team 1477 to get together and win this competition.

I was only responding to a comment that was essentially "118 is amazing, they scored XX tubes a match with no partners". I think it is easier for a robot to score with no other robot in their scoring zone. It was not a knock on 118, just a reminder about context.

[mwtidd]

Does anyone know what happened in the last match at Lone Star yesterday?

118 only putting up 9 points??

[mwtidd]

What is with TBA? I can't seem to see any of the match records!

I think for TBA to grab the matches greg has to manually run a script. I think TBA is meant to be an after competition resource.

[Akash Rastogi]

Teams who I have been really really happy to see doing well today - 1323, 1771, 2415, 2395, 1477, 714 and 125.

Expect hardware and blue banners from these guys today! :D :D

[IKE]

217 doesnt impress me much this year :/ yes they have a great robot but it's not the best I would say 33, 16, 148, 1918,and 548 (there's a few more I just can't think right now) idk it much just me...please 217 prove me wrong :)

217 really impressed me today while watching them. They are a really solid team again this year. They also showcased some interesting strategies and some very impressive human player action.

[Pjohn1959]

Does anyone know what happened in the last match at Lone Star yesterday?

118 only putting up 9 points??

Heavy defense by the blue alliance. 118 had no help. All three blue robots were pounding on them, and kept them from getting to the pole.

[JB987]

217 really impressed me today while watching them. They are a really solid team again this year. They also showcased some interesting strategies and some very impressive human player action.

Strategies such as???

[CassCity2081]

In Boilermaker this weekend 234 played a lot better than they did at Wisconsin including a new and improved sub two second minibot+deployment. We (2081) were able to alliance with them and sweep through the eliminations.

[BJC]

Strategies such as???

They showcased a tube hoarding stratigy where they would place as may tubes in their safe zone as possible without even trying to score them (trusting their partner to score for them.) The result was overall lower scores for both alliances.

[XaulZan11]

They showcased a tube hoarding stratigy where they would place as may tubes in their safe zone as possible without even trying to score them (trusting their partner to score for them.) The result was overall lower scores for both alliances.

So they fetched tubes for their partners to score? Am I misunderstanding something?

[Paul Copioli]

So they fetched tubes for their partners to score? Am I misunderstanding something?


You are not misunderstanding anything. That is all we did. We just acted as a feeder for our alliance partner. No big deal.

[JB987]

You are not misunderstanding anything. That is all we did. We just acted as a feeder for our alliance partner. No big deal.

Makes great sense...if you are mobile and acquire tubes off floor, or from feeder faster than your partner who can also place tubes efficiently...why not? You do what's best for the alliance, right?

[cire]

They showcased a tube hoarding stratigy where they would place as may tubes in their safe zone as possible without even trying to score them (trusting their partner to score for them.) The result was overall lower scores for both alliances.

Considering their alliance scored over 110 points EVERY round in the eliminations at the Detroit regional, I think it only lowered the scores for their opposing alliance. This is one of the best defensive/offensive strategies - reduce the number of tubes available for your opponents to score, and increase the number your team can score.

[Paul Copioli]

Basically, in the SF and Finals at Detroit we were going against alliances with defensive beasts (440 in the SF and 2832 in the Finals) and knew they would try to cut off 51 from getting back to our scoring zone. 51 has a high maneuverable slide drive and can go around defense, but can't really push through it. We have a 6WD with 6 motors using IFI traction wheels and can push through most teams so we felt it was better to keep 51 scoring and have 3096 and us get all of the tubes.

This is a strategy that only works in certain situations and worked well for us in a couple of instances. It requires a lot of faith in your partners and constant communication between the drive coaches.

A big part of the credit for this successful strategy goes to the three drive coaches on our alliance; Tito, Josh, and my brother Mike but that is for another thread.

[Basel A]

Because 217 had a partner that was fast at scoring, it wasn't less efficient to have an excellent scorer such as themselves just moving tubes. However, by getting the tubes out of open play quickly, they limited their opponents' tubes, and thus their scoring. I have to assume this was combined with strictly limited HP throwing from the DT Champion alliance. Excellent strategy!

[mwtidd]

217 doesnt impress me much this year :/ yes they have a great robot but it's not the best I would say 33, 16, 148, 1918,and 548 (there's a few more I just can't think right now) idk it much just me...please 217 prove me wrong :)

217.... the only team to my knowledge with 2 banners :)

[Josh Fox]

217.... the only team to my knowledge with 2 banners :)

294 and 177 both have 2 world championship banners to their name. I know there are more, but I'm drawing a blank right now unfortunately.

[mwtidd]

294 and 177 both have 2 world championship banner to their name. I know there are more, but I'm drawing a blank right now unfortunately.

I meant for 2011.

Given its only week 3...

I hope they get the hat trick at Troy :)

[Jimmy the Kidd]

Coming out of Bayou Regional, I was surprised by a lot of teams. Don't discount 125 at Boston. 1927, 3337, and 364 won at Bayou against them, 456, and 3616, and it was close all matches. 125's minibot and "claw" are top-notch.

[flippy147852]

217.... the only team to my knowledge with 2 banners :)

1918 also has two banners (Traverse City, West Michigan).

[mwtidd]

1918 also has two banners (Traverse City, West Michigan).

Thanks for the correction and congrats!

What do you attribute to you getting the 2 banners?

[Josh Fox]

I meant for 2011.

Given its only week 3...

I hope they get the hat trick at Troy :)

Ah, my mistake.