View Full Version : Michigan State Championship
arbasnaw
27-03-2011, 22:02
I'm from a rookie team 3638 and i was wondering how many teams go to the state championship.
If it helps at all, the number of teams in attendance last year was 65.
MagiChau
27-03-2011, 22:11
I'm from a rookie team 3638 and i was wondering how many teams go to the state championship.
Top 55 teams according to a ranking found here http://firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2011/2011_Results.xls and the 9 district chairman award winners
nikeairmancurry
27-03-2011, 22:23
Well, it's Winners of each District event, Chairman's Award Winners from each event, and from there it's just down the State Ranking List until there's 65 teams attending.
Techincally according to the state ranking, the event winners do not have an auto bid...
Well, it's Winners of each District event, Chairman's Award Winners from each event, and from there it's just down the State Ranking List until there's 65 teams attending.
Winners of each District event do not automatically qualify for States, but in most cases, the amount of points they earn by winning will almost guarantee they have enough points to make the cut. Only district Chairman's award winners automatically qualify for States.
Please refer to the Michigan Rules Supplement for details.
http://www.firstinmichigan.us/FRC_2011/2011_Rules_Supplement.pdf
Sorry this file is so hidden. It is underneath the table of all the competition events. I will find a better place for it next year.
arbasnaw
27-03-2011, 22:58
Thanks those really helped.
SPatel94
03-04-2011, 12:37
Regarding MI State Championships, the MI rules supplement said that the final state rankings will be posted no later than 9 AM the Sunday following the week 5 events. Have the rankings been updated yet and posted on the FIRST in Michigan site? It is already Sunday and past 9 AM, so I was wondering if there was some other reason causing the delay. If anyone has any more information on this, it would be helpful.:)
Richard Wallace
03-04-2011, 12:47
Here. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=94265) 818 is in.:)
SPatel94
03-04-2011, 12:49
Thank You!!!
Chris is me
03-04-2011, 12:51
Wow, no auto qualify for Rookie All Star, or event winner?
68 Is in :)
Unless I'm mistaken don't the engineering inspiration award winners get in automatically also?
David Dawson
03-04-2011, 13:11
Wow, no auto qualify for Rookie All Star, or event winner?
Not this year only chairmans get a auto bye for the championship. district winners don't even get a auto go.
Huskie65
03-04-2011, 13:15
Wow, no auto qualify for Rookie All Star, or event winner?
Rookie All Star isn't even worth any points towards States. Bit strange really.
Chris Hibner
03-04-2011, 13:22
Here. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=94265) 818 is in.:)
For some reason when I go to that link and download the spreadsheet, it's still not updated for this weekend's events.
rmhooks573
03-04-2011, 13:23
For some reason when I go to that link and download the spreadsheet, it's still not updated for this weekend's events.
it's updated.
Richard Wallace
03-04-2011, 13:25
For some reason when I go to that link and download the spreadsheet, it's still not updated for this weekend's events.Try clearing your downloads folder. The link shows me updated rankings as of this morning.
Team # Auto Qualify for State based on Award
Team # Registered for St. Louis
Team # Qualify for State
Overall Ranking Point Results
cummulative through 4/2/2011
Rank Team # Points Elimination Round Performance Points Best Elimination Round Finish Draft Points Highest Draft/Seed Achieved Qualification Round Win-Loss Points Events Played Auto Qualify for State Registered for St. Louis
1 1918 155 60 30 31 16 44 2
2 2137 135 60 30 32 16 38 2
3 2054 135 50 30 31 16 44 2
4 217 130 40 30 31 16 42 2 Y
5 469 127 50 30 31 16 36 2 Y
6 1023 124 40 30 30 16 42 2 Y Y
7 33 116 40 30 31 16 40 2 Y Y
8 3539 114 50 30 26 14 36 2
9 201 113 40 30 30 16 36 2
10 51 113 40 30 27 16 36 2 Y
11 494 111 50 30 26 16 33 2
12 245 109 30 20 28 15 40 2
13 548 105 50 30 27 15 26 2 Y
14 2337 104 40 30 28 16 36 3 Y
15 27 97 30 30 29 15 31 2
16 3098 97 30 20 31 16 36 2
17 2767 96 30 20 28 15 38 3
18 1718 96 30 20 27 14 34 2 Y
19 573 95 20 10 30 16 36 2 Y
20 302 92 20 10 27 14 35 2 Y
21 2612 86 20 20 24 15 32 3
22 2145 81 20 20 26 15 30 2
23 67 81 20 20 25 16 31 2 Y
24 1528 80 20 20 23 15 30 2
25 3542 79 20 20 28 15 29 2
26 2246 79 20 10 25 14 25 2
27 308 79 20 10 24 12 30 2
28 66 77 34 24 13 12 30 2 Y
29 2619 77 18 10 20 14 29 2
30 2834 74 20 20 15 15 30 2
31 74 74 10 10 24 14 30 3 Y
32 2959 70 10 10 27 14 33 2
33 70 70 10 10 26 13 34 2
34 1941 68 26 16 16 14 26 2
35 1243 68 20 20 21 11 27 2
36 3547 67 10 10 22 12 28 3
37 3620 66 24 24 16 11 26 2
38 326 65 10 10 22 14 28 2
39 1250 65 10 10 22 14 28 2
40 2000 65 0 0 26 14 34 2
41 3536 64 0 0 26 15 34 2
42 226 62 10 10 23 14 24 3
43 141 61 24 24 10 9 22 3 Y
44 247 60 16 16 12 10 25 2
45 280 60 10 10 21 12 25 2
46 3234 59 0 0 23 12 36 2
47 3548 58 32 24 4 3 22 2
48 85 58 10 10 21 12 27 2
49 2604 57 10 10 20 11 25 2 Y
50 1596 57 10 10 14 14 28 2
51 1322 56 0 0 25 15 24 2
52 2611 56 0 0 24 13 32 2
53 2832 54 16 16 11 9 25 2
54 1025 53 8 8 14 10 26 2
55 2474 53 0 0 22 14 26 3
56 68 53 0 0 19 12 27 3
57 2586 51 16 16 11 8 24 2
58 3875 51 0 0 21 11 28 2
59 818 50 8 8 13 10 27 2
60 1504 50 0 0 20 13 30 2
61 1684 49 16 16 15 8 18 2
62 830 49 16 16 11 9 22 2
63 3535 49 8 8 15 10 26 2
64 3688 48 10 10 11 11 25 2
65 3572 48 0 0 19 12 25 2
66 910 48 0 0 19 12 22 2
67 3322 47 0 0 18 9 27 2 Y
68 3617 46 24 24 1 1 21 2
69 3707 46 0 0 13 13 29 2
70 1 44 24 24 8 7 12 2 Y
71 3357 44 24 24 2 2 18 3
72 858 43 24 24 2 2 17 2
73 894 43 0 0 14 14 29 2
74 3414 42 16 16 9 7 17 2
75 835 42 8 8 10 5 24 2
76 3096 41 24 24 1 1 16 2
77 703 41 8 8 17 11 16 2
78 3773 41 0 0 13 13 26 2
79 503 40 8 8 14 11 18 3 Y
80 3602 40 0 0 17 9 23 2
81 2851 40 0 0 15 8 23 2
82 3638 40 0 0 11 11 29 2
83 3538 38 0 0 9 9 24 2
84 107 37 16 16 1 1 15 2
85 903 37 0 0 13 13 24 3
86 1701 37 0 0 11 11 26 2
87 857 37 0 0 10 10 27 2
88 1188 36 0 0 14 10 22 2 Y
89 3658 35 8 8 10 6 15 2
90 2620 35 0 0 13 13 17 2
91 3302 35 0 0 11 11 24 2
92 2591 34 16 16 1 1 17 3
93 3115 34 8 8 8 5 18 2
94 2676 34 0 0 11 11 23 2
95 313 34 0 0 10 10 24 2
96 815 34 0 0 9 9 21 2
97 440 33 8 8 5 5 20 3
98 123 33 0 0 13 13 20 3
99 1677 33 0 0 12 12 21 2
100 3603 33 0 0 11 11 22 2
101 3771 32 0 0 10 10 18 2
102 3618 32 0 0 9 9 23 2
103 3570 31 8 8 4 4 15 2
104 3452 31 8 8 3 3 20 2
105 3604 31 8 8 3 3 20 2
106 3450 31 8 8 2 2 17 2
107 3401 31 0 0 10 6 21 2
108 3568 30 0 0 9 9 21 2
109 1502 30 0 0 4 4 24 2 Y
110 3656 29 0 0 10 10 19 2
111 322 29 0 0 9 9 20 2
112 3640 28 0 0 7 7 21 2
113 1506 28 0 0 6 6 18 2
114 862 28 0 0 6 6 17 2 Y
115 240 28 0 0 4 4 24 2
116 244 27 8 8 4 4 15 2
117 3546 27 0 0 9 9 18 2
118 3641 27 0 0 9 9 16 2
119 2771 27 0 0 3 3 20 3
120 3770 26 8 8 1 1 17 2
121 3509 26 0 0 5 5 17 2
122 470 26 0 0 2 2 24 2
123 3537 26 0 0 0 0 21 2
124 1711 25 0 0 10 10 11 2
125 904 25 0 0 5 5 20 3
126 2075 24 0 0 6 6 14 2
127 288 22 0 0 6 6 16 2
128 515 22 0 0 6 6 16 2
129 3069 21 0 0 0 0 21 2
130 1896 20 0 0 0 0 20 2
131 2245 20 0 0 0 0 20 2
132 2960 20 0 0 0 0 20 2
133 3605 20 0 0 0 0 20 2
134 3657 20 0 0 0 0 20 2
135 3767 19 0 0 4 4 13 2
136 1189 19 0 0 0 0 17 2
137 2405 19 0 0 0 0 15 2
138 1254 18 0 0 0 0 18 2
139 3458 18 0 0 0 0 18 2
140 3398 18 0 0 0 0 16 2
141 314 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
142 1076 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
143 2673 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
144 3175 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
145 3421 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
146 3534 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
147 3601 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
148 3621 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
149 3632 17 0 0 0 0 17 2
150 519 16 0 0 0 0 16 2
151 2048 16 0 0 0 0 16 2
152 2224 16 0 0 0 0 16 2
153 3639 15 0 0 0 0 15 2
154 3768 15 0 0 0 0 15 2
155 2153 14 0 0 0 0 14 1
156 3002 14 0 0 0 0 14 2
157 3415 14 0 0 0 0 14 2
158 3769 14 0 0 0 0 14 2
159 94 14 0 0 0 0 12 2
160 3619 14 0 0 0 0 12 2
161 468 13 0 0 0 0 13 2
162 3667 12 0 0 0 0 12 2
163 3668 12 0 0 0 0 12 2
164 3772 12 0 0 0 0 12 1
165 216 10 0 0 0 0 10 2
166 3655 9 0 0 0 0 9 2
167 3706 6 0 0 0 0 4 1
168 49 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
169 1998 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
170 2627 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
171 3708 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Chris Hibner
03-04-2011, 13:26
it's updated.
Apparently it was something with Google Chrome. When I download the spreadsheet with Google Chrome, it would be the old version (I think Chrome was just saving something it had cached). When I tried downloading it with IE, it downloaded the updated spreadsheet.
Chris is me
03-04-2011, 13:27
Rookie All Star isn't even worth any points towards States. Bit strange really.
Wow, that's just stupid. So first year teams have to do as well as 67 or 33 to play?
rmhooks573
03-04-2011, 13:31
Wow, that's just stupid. So first year teams have to do as well as 67 or 33 to play?
that's how it goes. but everyone is on the same platform if you think about it. no one knows the game until it comes out and afterwards and no one has "a leg up" as you can see, rookies can do well such as teams 3539 3542 and such
Steve Ketron
03-04-2011, 13:41
When do the invites get sent out?
Jimmy Cao
03-04-2011, 13:54
When do the invites get sent out?
According to the supplement,
The final ranking list will be posted on the FIRST in Michigan website no later than 9:00 A.M. on the Sunday morning
following the Week 5 events. All eligible teams, whether they plan to attend or not, are required to go to TIMS no later
than noon on Monday following the the Week 5 events, and either register for the State Championship, or decline.
If any of the eligible teams are unable to attend, choose not to attend, or do not respond by Monday at noon, the next
team in ranked order will be eligible to take their place. Eligibility will continue to move down through the ranks until all
places at the State Championship are filled. This makes it vital for teams to notify us quickly if they do not plan to attend
So you have until Monday noon to go to TIMS and accept. There is no explicit invite besides having your team # colored in on the spreadsheet.
910 missed out by acouple of points this year. :( So i have to ask, anybody not going that ranked high enough?
Huskie65
03-04-2011, 14:22
910 missed out by acouple of points this year. :( So i have to ask, anybody not going that ranked high enough?
I really hope you guys get in. You totally deserve it. After the whole MC debacle at Troy effectivly ending our season right there, the award your team gave us really made that competition for our team. Its nice to not walk away from a good first season totally empty handed :)
After the whole MC debacle at Troy effectivly ending our season right there
This statement has me a bit confused. What happened?
rmhooks573
03-04-2011, 14:38
This statement has me a bit confused. What happened?
i'm in agreement. what happened at troy? i was unable to attend.
MagiChau
03-04-2011, 14:48
The rankings are updated for week 5. If you got at least 49 points and aren't chairmans which already is qualified, except for team 3535, you are currently qualified.
http://firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2011/2011_Results.xls
Huskie65
03-04-2011, 14:48
This statement has me a bit confused. What happened?
The 5th alliance captain 910 for their second pick choose 3538. The MC got it mixed up with 3539 (3rd alliance captain) and told him (twice) we were unavailable. They poor kid looked so confused and then the MC started in on him with the jeopardy theme and he made another pick. In the stands we thought we heard right but the 910 kid was quiet and the sound was bad so we all just stood there confused instead of speaking up then. We ended up not getting picked and the alliance didn't get out of the first round. It was unfortunate but the event coordinator apologized to our kids and First in Michigan gave us the 5 points for being picked 12th overall (along with the 3115) afterwards.
Chris is me
03-04-2011, 14:50
the event coordinator apologized to our kids and First in Michigan gave us the 5 points for being picked 12th overall (along with the 3115) afterwards.
This is a really nice thing of them to do! A great way to handle a bad situation.
rmhooks573
03-04-2011, 14:52
The 5th alliance captain 910 for their second pick choose 3538. The MC got it mixed up with 3539 (3rd alliance captain) and told him (twice) we were unavailable. They poor kid looked so confused and then the MC started in on him with the jeopardy theme and he made another pick. In the stands we thought we heard right but the 910 kid was quiet and the sound was bad so we all just stood there confused instead of speaking up then. We ended up not getting picked and the alliance didn't get out of the first round. It was unfortunate but the event coordinator apologized to our kids and First in Michigan gave us the 5 points for being picked 12th overall (along with the 3115) afterwards.
wow!!!!!!!!!! :ahh: i'm speachless. but at least you did get 5pts toward state ranking.
Ian Curtis
03-04-2011, 14:57
Wow, that's just stupid. So first year teams have to do as well as 67 or 33 to play?
By my math, if you went 12-11-1 in qualifying, were the 8th seed's 1st pick twice, and made it to the semis at one event you'd make the cutoff. So, not at the same level as 67 or 33, but a solid robot is definitely a requirement. (Making it to the semis could be traded for two awards or winning 5 more qualifying matches)
I'm not sure exactly where the rookie numbers start this year :o, but there are at least 6 teams who qualified with numbers in the higher 3000s. About 10% rookie seems par for the course.
Huskie65
03-04-2011, 14:57
wow!!!!!!!!!! :ahh: i'm speachless. but at least you did get 5pts toward state ranking.
Ya its not near enough to qualify but it does make us feel better to end the season in the top half. Troy was an emotional end to our tough season but 910 made things a lot easier. We are a super small team with no engineers or teachers and we are super proud of what we accomplished this year. As long as we secure the funding we will for sure be back next year better than ever :)
XaulZan11
03-04-2011, 15:03
I'm not sure exactly where the rookie numbers start this year :o, but there are at least 6 teams who qualified with numbers in the higher 3000s. About 10% rookie seems par for the course.
True, but I think the bigger issue is that an award that probably means more than robot preformance has no effect on if you attend the state championship. Something seems out of wack, I think.
tracie3538
03-04-2011, 15:39
The 5th alliance captain 910 for their second pick choose 3538. The MC got it mixed up with 3539 (3rd alliance captain) and told him (twice) we were unavailable. They poor kid looked so confused and then the MC started in on him with the jeopardy theme and he made another pick. In the stands we thought we heard right but the 910 kid was quiet and the sound was bad so we all just stood there confused instead of speaking up then. We ended up not getting picked and the alliance didn't get out of the first round. It was unfortunate but the event coordinator apologized to our kids and First in Michigan gave us the 5 points for being picked 12th overall (along with the 3115) afterwards.
ya but 910 could've possibly gone farther if they had been able to compete with the alliance they originally wanted.
Chris is me
03-04-2011, 15:46
By my math, if you went 12-11-1 in qualifying, were the 8th seed's 1st pick twice, and made it to the semis at one event you'd make the cutoff. So, not at the same level as 67 or 33, but a solid robot is definitely a requirement. (Making it to the semis could be traded for two awards or winning 5 more qualifying matches)
I'm not sure exactly where the rookie numbers start this year :o, but there are at least 6 teams who qualified with numbers in the higher 3000s. About 10% rookie seems par for the course.
My issue is that FIM apparently now defines success as having a good robot - seems like a different direction than the rest of FIRST. Other FIRST events give multiple pathways to success and let you choose which you really want to take (robot, "chairman's", etc) - but MSC is only concerned about the robot.
Jimmy Cao
03-04-2011, 15:52
My issue is that FIM apparently now defines success as having a good robot - seems like a different direction than the rest of FIRST. Other FIRST events give multiple pathways to success and let you choose which you really want to take (robot, "chairman's", etc) - but MSC is only concerned about the robot.
This is not the case. The robot competition part of MSC is centered around the robot, but the culture changing portion of MSC is completely independent of the robot.
Teams that receive Engineering Inspiration or Rookie Allstar who do not qualify for the robot portion of MSC are still invited to present for those awards, which are judged apart from robot performance.
Wow, that's just stupid. So first year teams have to do as well as 67 or 33 to play?
Michigan is all about tough love. If you can make it there you can make it anywhere.
rmhooks573
03-04-2011, 16:03
Michigan is all about tough love. If you can make it there you can make it anywhere.
love it
David Dawson
03-04-2011, 16:07
Michigan is all about tough love. If you can make it there you can make it anywhere.
And I wouldn't have it any other way. In Michigan the #1 alliance is always in danger of losing due the the mass amount to strong teams. Having the best and worst pick sometimes isn't good enough to beat a team with 3 all around good bots. Look at Waterford as an example.
rmhooks573
03-04-2011, 16:19
And I wouldn't have it any other way. In Michigan the #1 alliance is always in danger of losing due the the mass amount to strong teams. Having the best and worst pick sometimes isn't good enough to beat a team with 3 all around good bots. Look at Waterford as an example.
either way, states is going to be a bit more challenging than st. louis.
RyanCesiel
03-04-2011, 16:29
either way, states is going to be more challenging than st. louis. just a sheer fact
We cannot go so far as to say that. There is a bountiful amount of teams outside of Michigan that are top-notch and very competitive. 1114, 111, 2056, 254, and 148 are just some of the teams that are what some would call "perennial powerhouses" and are once again living up to their reputations.
However, I am willing to bet that MSC is the most challenging event prior to St. Louis.
Richard Wallace
03-04-2011, 16:31
either way, states is going to be more challenging than st. louis. just a sheer factThe Michigan field is deeper. I agree seeding matches at MSC will be more competitive than seeding matches at the FRC Championship. But division eliminations will be the other way 'round. And Einstein will be a whole new level.
I'm looking forward to IRI this year -- expect to see 6 ubertubes, 6+ logos, and 4 minibots in MANY matches. :D
rmhooks573
03-04-2011, 16:34
The Michigan field is deeper. I agree seeding matches at MSC will be more competitive than seeding matches at the FRC Championship. But division eliminations will be the other way 'round. And Einstein will be a whole new level.
I'm looking forward to IRI this year -- expect to see 6 ubertubes, 6+ logos, and 4 minibots in MANY matches. :D
einstein will be just. . . ..chaotic. :yikes:
Jack Jones
03-04-2011, 18:00
My issue is that FIM apparently now defines success as having a good robot - seems like a different direction than the rest of FIRST. Other FIRST events give multiple pathways to success and let you choose which you really want to take (robot, "chairman's", etc) - but MSC is only concerned about the robot.
The rest of FIRST, as you put it, apparently defines success as winning. Qualifying for the Championship is, for the most part, a winner-take-all situation. You have to have won the previous Championship, won a previous Championship Chairman’s Award, won a Regional, won the Engineering Inspiration Award, or have won the Rookie All-Star Award.
There are a number of teams who are always the bride’s maid. They always seed high or get picked by those who do, but never walk away with the gold. Their continued high performance should earn them the right to compete in the State championship and not give that up to a rookie who only had to compete with other rookies for their award.
By my math, if you went 12-11-1 in qualifying, were the 8th seed's 1st pick twice, and made it to the semis at one event you'd make the cutoff. So, not at the same level as 67 or 33, but a solid robot is definitely a requirement. (Making it to the semis could be traded for two awards or winning 5 more qualifying matches)
I'm not sure exactly where the rookie numbers start this year :o, but there are at least 6 teams who qualified with numbers in the higher 3000s. About 10% rookie seems par for the course.
If you were in the #8 seed, making it to the semifinals is very unlikely. I can say this because my team went 12-11-1 in qualifying then became the 8th seed captain, twice. My team also won the imagery award, which is worth 2 points. Had we won an award worth 5 points, we would have ended up with 50 qualifying points, thus qualifying for states.
David Dawson
03-04-2011, 18:28
I wonder can anyone explain why the rookie inspiration got points instead of the rookie all star.
Tyler Hicks
03-04-2011, 18:36
MSC is definitely one of the hardest, most competitive, and most exhilarating FIRST Events out there. I can tell you right now, the elimination rounds are going to be intense...very intense.
Best of luck to all teams attending, we'll see you there! :D
Andrew Schreiber
03-04-2011, 18:43
I wonder can anyone explain why the rookie inspiration got points instead of the rookie all star.
"Cultural Awards"... From my understanding FIRST wanted to make it and the Chairman's above all that "petty" point stuff. I don't have a source for this, just baseless rumors I have heard.
Bjenks548
03-04-2011, 19:16
"Cultural Awards"... From my understanding FIRST wanted to make it and the Chairman's above all that "petty" point stuff. I don't have a source for this, just baseless rumors I have heard.
The thing that confuses me here is how a team qualifies for nationals in Michigan. Winning a district gives you quite a few points, while a Chairman's award gets you 0 points. I understand it is an auto qualify for States, but these points also count towards national qualification. I was disappointed when I saw a big 0 for award points next to 548 after Waterford where we won the Chairman's award.
As far as the competition goes before you say Einstein is going to be far more competitive then States. Look at the teams going, assume they were all on one field at nationals, are there enough great robots out there to make the other 3 fields just as competitive? Also take a look at the Winners from last year from states and nationals. States is 1918, 469, and 2834. Nationals is 67, 294, and 177. Which do you think would win?
The thing that confuses me here is how a team qualifies for nationals in Michigan. Winning a district gives you quite a few points, while a Chairman's award gets you 0 points. I understand it is an auto qualify for States, but these points also count towards national qualification. I was disappointed when I saw a big 0 for award points next to 548 after Waterford where we won the Chairman's award.
As far as the competition goes before you say Einstein is going to be far more competitive then States. Look at the teams going, assume they were all on one field at nationals, are there enough great robots out there to make the other 3 fields just as competitive? Also take a look at the Winners from last year from states and nationals. States is 1918, 469, and 2834. Nationals is 67, 294, and 177. Which do you think would win?
I wouldn't be so quick to diminish the quality of a team because they don't play in Michigan.
They are quite a few good teams who play outside of Michigan actually.
Huskie65
03-04-2011, 19:23
The thing that confuses me here is how a team qualifies for nationals in Michigan. Winning a district gives you quite a few points, while a Chairman's award gets you 0 points. I understand it is an auto qualify for States, but these points also count towards national qualification. I was disappointed when I saw a big 0 for award points next to 548 after Waterford where we won the Chairman's award.
As far as the competition goes before you say Einstein is going to be far more competitive then States. Look at the teams going, assume they were all on one field at nationals, are there enough great robots out there to make the other 3 fields just as competitive? Also take a look at the Winners from last year from states and nationals. States is 1918, 469, and 2834. Nationals is 67, 294, and 177. Which do you think would win?
The year before you could say the same thing. 67, 217, and 65? Well one would be playing on both alliances lol
As always there are some amazing teams/robots attending MSC this year. So, at the end of qualifications who do you think will be the #1 overall seed?
548swimmer
03-04-2011, 20:05
I wouldn't be so quick to diminish the quality of a team because they don't play in Michigan.
They are quite a few good teams who play outside of Michigan actually.
I do not think the intent was to downplay the quality of non-Michigan teams, but instead to provide an example of how intense the MSC will be.
Bjenks548
03-04-2011, 20:58
I wouldn't be so quick to diminish the quality of a team because they don't play in Michigan.
They are quite a few good teams who play outside of Michigan actually.
I defiantly agree that they are many many good teams outside of Michigan. I was saying that to look at MSC vs National as far as competitiveness, look to see if there are enough robots to fill the other 3 fields at nationals at the caliber of MSC. If there are then nationals is more difficult to win. If not then MSC is more difficult to win. Obviously in Michigan I don't get to see all of the great teams outside of it so I don't know which is harder to win.
r2davis2
03-04-2011, 21:26
Also take a look at the Winners from last year from states and nationals. States is 1918, 469, and 2834. Nationals is 67, 294, and 177. Which do you think would win?
Not to dismiss the quality of other teams, but we went up a very similar if not more skilled alliance, that some called unstoppable...
But on the other hand I do agree with some of what you said about the Chairman's award that does deserve points as it is a very important award. But you have to look at it from a comparative stand point to other states. For example, there are many central and southern states, who share regionals, and out of the 2 or 3 states that get to participate only one sends a Chairman's team to St Louis. So to give all 9 district Chairman's winners more of a chance to compete at champs for Chairman's would cause a huge imbalance in being able to compete for Chairman's at champs.
Not to dismiss the quality of other teams, but we went up a very similar if not more skilled alliance, that some called unstoppable...
But on the other hand I do agree with some of what you said about the Chairman's award that does deserve points as it is a very important award. But you have to look at it from a comparative stand point to other states. For example, there are many central and southern states, who share regionals, and out of the 2 or 3 states that get to participate only one sends a Chairman's team to St Louis. So to give all 9 district Chairman's winners more of a chance to compete at champs for Chairman's would cause a huge imbalance in being able to compete for Chairman's at champs.
Of course, Michigan is a good 8% of FRC, so of the 60-ish RCA/DCA winners, about 4-5 of the CMP Chairman's contenders should, if it's based on amounts of teams, be from Michigan. The reason there's 3 SCA (State Chairman's Award) winners is likely because there were three Michigan regionals, and thus three RCA winners, prior to the District system.
Jim Zondag
04-04-2011, 01:21
I wonder can anyone explain why the rookie inspiration got points instead of the rookie all star.
This decision comes from FIRST NH. The FIRST home office wants the 3 "cultural awards" (CA, EIA, RAS) to remain separate from the rest of the competition. They believe that if we give points for these awards, that this somehow degrades them. I am sure that everyone who's team got one of these awards would probably disagree with this. If so, please forward any and all complaints to Bill Miller at FIRST. I have tried for 3 years, but apparently I am not convincing enough.
Akash Rastogi
04-04-2011, 01:29
This decision comes from FIRST NH. The FIRST home office wants the 3 "cultural awards" (CA, EIA, RAS) to remain separate from the rest of the competition. They believe that if we give points for these awards, that this somehow degrades them. I am sure that everyone who's team got one of these awards would probably disagree with this. If so, please forward any and all complaints to Bill Miller at FIRST. I have tried for 3 years, but apparently I am not convincing enough.
Wow, I had no idea of this. That's pretty, actually really really, dumb.
Thank you Jim for pointing this out to those of us outside of FiM. I think a letter is in order.
Jim Zondag
04-04-2011, 02:18
MSC is definitely one of the hardest, most competitive, and most exhilarating FIRST Events out there.
For all of you aspiring Math and Science students out there:
The reason that the MSC is so awesome is that it is the only in season event that is screened for robot capability. In 2009 and 2010 it has surpassed even the World championship divisions on competitiveness, falling second only to the IRI both years (the IRI is also screened for quality). This year will likely be the same.
Run the numbers and the truth of this should jump out at you:
- The Average OPR of most 2011 Regional and District Events is 12 or less.
-The Standard Deviation of the OPRs at all the events so far is greater than the average. (get your Stats textbook and understand what this means!)
- Going into the MSC, the Average OPR will likely be 21, nearly double the average for all other events this year.
- The OPR Standard Deviation at the MSC will likely be the about 14, making it the only event where the Average - Stdev > 0, (again, check the math text to understand what this means).
So the MSC has the highest average capability, and the lowest variablity relative to the average, of any event so far this year. This is how you define a highly competitive environment: Lots of good teams, with similar capability, in the same place, at the same time.
Divisions at STL have not yet been defined, but doing the math on the 271 teams signed up so far, it is unlikely that any of the 4 STL divisions will have the concentration of skill that the MSC will have.
I, for one, live for events like this!
I can hardly wait for next weekend!
Thank you Jim for pointing this out to those of us outside of FiM. I think a letter is in order.
I might try my hand at a letter too, but after competition season. I've got a hunch it might be more carefully considered then.
Wayne TenBrink
04-04-2011, 08:39
The "top end" of teams at MSC is no better than the "top end" of the teams at CMP - less, in fact, because the best non-MI teams won't be there. However, only the top 1/3 of the teams in the state make it to MSC. This will change the caliber of the qual matches because every robot in every match will be very capable of playing the game. This will make every qual match comparable to elims at a regional/district. Elims will be perhaps comparable to division elims at CMP. Einstein remains in a class by itself.
On another note - TIMS is still not letting us register for MSC. I won't have access to a computer between now and noon and haven't been able to reach our alternate team contact to make sure he can get us registered. I'm sure we are not the only team in this situation. Hope it all works out...
tr6scott
04-04-2011, 11:18
I, for one, live for events like this!
I can hardly wait for next weekend!
I agree, how about we meet for a best robot performance in a bag match tonight? :yikes:
Clinton Bolinger
04-04-2011, 11:34
I agree, how about we meet for a best robot performance in a bag match tonight? :yikes:
It might come down to who can deploy their Minibot the fastest out of the bag.
-Clinton-
Don Wright
04-04-2011, 11:48
It might come down to who can deploy their Minibot the fastest out of the bag.
It would look like Aliens...
OK... So you guys thought to put your "Tesla-beamed-power" receivers into your 'bot bags? Rats... we left ours back in the shop ... :-)
anyone up for shirt trade @ MSC? my teams not attending but i plan on spending the day there anyway on saturday.i have 2 large 862 shirts for anyone interested.
rmhooks573
04-04-2011, 22:02
anyone up for shirt trade @ MSC? my teams not attending but i plan on spending the day there anyway on saturday.i have 2 large 862 shirts for anyone interested.
do you have a small?
do you have a small?
sorry, i only have the two larges
nikeairmancurry
04-04-2011, 22:07
anyone up for shirt trade @ MSC? my teams not attending but i plan on spending the day there anyway on saturday.i have 2 large 862 shirts for anyone interested.
Im In!
Im In!
1 sold, 1 up for grabs yet, first come first serve
ya but 910 could've possibly gone farther if they had been able to compete with the alliance they originally wanted.
3115 was a great partner, you can't be sure that our alliance would of done better with 3538. I mean, we did win the first match but then 910s minibot deployment stopped working. Still a good run though. We were sitting with some mentors from 2337and they said our alliance was a big worry for them if we advanced.
TNT280Staff
05-04-2011, 06:41
Good Luck to all teams attending the Michigan State Championship - TnT is glad to be back, it's going to be a great competition
1 sold, 1 up for grabs yet, first come first serve
I'll take one!
I'll take one!
and there goes #2
nikeairmancurry
05-04-2011, 13:36
326 will be there with a good amount of Minibots and deployments... We are going to try and let as many teams as possible try to use them... The minibot can easily be fitted to almost any robot and the minibot itself is about 1 second.. For more information, we will be passing out flyers in the pits and you can stop by our pit...
MagiChau
05-04-2011, 13:42
Can't believe the pits open in just one more day. Excited to see the robots in person that didn't go to West Michigan or Traverse City. BOB has a new and improved deployment system itching to be tested on the field. Let's rack and roll.
Andrew Schreiber
05-04-2011, 13:56
Can't believe the pits open in just one more day. Excited to see the robots in person that didn't go to West Michigan or Traverse City. BOB has a new and improved deployment system itching to be tested on the field. Let's rack and roll.
Don't remind me, I still haven't recovered from Troy.
Rack 'n Roll was 2007... What's the name of the game? (Stack Attack)
MishraArtificer
05-04-2011, 17:09
Don't remind me, I still haven't recovered from Troy.
Rack 'n Roll was 2007... What's the name of the game? (Stack Attack)Calling you out for a ABBA reference!
With that uot of the way, I may be able to sneak out there on Saturday after work in my last vintage 2005 Team 240 TEMPEST Robotics shirt.
Wow, 910 made it in. I'm real happy for you guys. Now i have something to do saturday.:)
rmhooks573
05-04-2011, 18:29
Wow, 910 made it in. I'm real happy for you guys. Now i have something to do saturday.:)
great job 910! can't wait to see you guys at states. its just not the same without the blue tie-dye shirts there
rmhooks573
05-04-2011, 19:44
btw, if anyone wants to trade shirts or is selling a shirt i'm always looking for trade/buy
wo-bot 141
05-04-2011, 20:37
ill be bringing old shirts i have from 141 up for trades. should be around the pits if your interested. shirts go back to 05!!
Carolyn_Grace
05-04-2011, 22:12
Make sure to let someone on your team know about the NEMO (Non-Engineering Mentors Organization) meeting at 9:30am on Saturday. This is a great opportunity to network with other teams and learn about helpful non-technical resources. The meeting will be about an hour long, with the following goals in mind:
1. To stimulate the growth of NEMO by recruiting new members
2. To bring NEMs together for networking
3. To bring NEMS together to encourage sharing of resources
4. To network with teams who do not have NEMs
Please come and go as you wish: we know that your first priority is to your team.
It'll be in Room 137A, Arena level, in the west hallway, by robot queuing.
rmhooks573
06-04-2011, 09:30
Nice Work Productions will be fimling MSC and it will be televised on april 16th on ABC. but because of this, music will NOT be played throughout the semis and the finals. :eek: but as a trade off this is a great way to promote FIRST.
Nice Work Productions will be fimling MSC and it will be televised on april 16th on ABC. but because of this, music will NOT be played throughout the semis and the finals. :eek: but as a trade off this is a great way to promote FIRST.
Whoa? Where did you find this? This is awesome! Well, not the no music part, but still!
Jimmy Cao
06-04-2011, 09:39
Whoa? Where did you find this? This is awesome! Well, not the no music part, but still!
From an email from Gail Alpert, yesterday afternoon
This year we've hired Nice Work Productions to create a one hour TV show of the Semi-finals and Finals at the State Championship. The show will be structured like a real sports broadcast, with play by play announcing and color commentary.
The show will air at:
1:00 pm on Saturday, April 16 on ABC and all of the ABC affiliates across Michigan except for WJRT in Flint which will broadcast it at 11:00 am on Sunday, April 17.
We hope the show will be viewed not only by those currently involved in FIRST, but by the general public as well.
Nice Work will have one chance to get it right. To do so, we ask for your help with the following:
1. Additional lighting above the Alliance Stations.
A strip of small bulbs will be placed above the Alliance stations on the back of the team numbers during all qualifying and the elimination rounds. This will give teams a chance to get used to them before the semis and final rounds. The lights will help the production cameras see the driver's faces.
2. Robot mounted cameras:
Each alliance that makes it to the semi-finals will be asked to choose one robot on their alliance that will allow a small, light-weight camera to be mounted to it for live action robot shots.
3. Music will be off during matches:
No music will be playing during the semi-final matches and final matches. This will allow the play by play and color commentary to be heard more clearly.
4. Unscheduled time-outs:
There may be some time outs taken between rounds to allow the cameras to get set up. The producers will do their best to keep these at a minimum.
5. Briefing for all 8 alliances during lunch with producers:
There will be a lunch time briefing for all alliances with the production team (location tba) to go over any issues and to answer any questions.
Thank you in advance for your flexibility with these changes and we look forward to a great event.
This is so cool!!!! Man this event is going to be awesome!!!!
rmhooks573
06-04-2011, 09:54
i guess i'm going to have to dance to the music like crazy during the qualifications :cool:
MagiChau
06-04-2011, 10:41
I wonder how their commentary will go. Hopefully they had some practice familiarizing themselves with FIRST.
RyanCesiel
06-04-2011, 12:27
Just a FYI... As if General Motors doesn't already have enough invested in the Michigan State Championship (I believe 22 teams? which would = 110,000 in entrance fees), this program that will be airing on ABC is also thanks to General Motors. My dad, our team's contact with General Motors, mentioned that the airtime for this program was paid for by General Motors and the program will be "sponsored by Chevrolet".
Not enough can be said about GM's support of FIRST and FIRST teams. A HUGE thank you to our team's sponsor and the sponsor of many, many other FIRST teams. Thanks also to Dave Verbrugge, the primary FIRST team contact for GM, Tom Stephens (GM Global Chief Technology Officer) for helping maintain a strong relationship between GM and FIRST, and all GM employees (and former employees) that mentor FIRST teams (our team has 4!).
Andrew Schreiber
06-04-2011, 12:51
Calling you out for a ABBA reference!
What?
Andy Baker
06-04-2011, 13:11
I wonder how many folks from outside of Michigan will be traveling to Ypsi to see the MSC. Chris Fultz, Dan Green, and I will be there. It will be exciting to see this great event. Who else is coming in?
Andy B.
nikeairmancurry
06-04-2011, 13:14
In years past Koko Ed and Karthik have made appearances... I'd suggested this to many other teams outside Michigan... This event is probably the most competitive event other then IRI and Einstien...
I wonder how many folks from outside of Michigan will be traveling to Ypsi to see the MSC. Chris Fultz, Dan Green, and I will be there. It will be exciting to see this great event. Who else is coming in?
Andy B.
Teams 1114 and 2056 will be represented.
Teams 1114 and 2056 will be represented.
And you would certainly be in our thoughts even if you weren't there! :D
nikeairmancurry
07-04-2011, 21:52
This Event has been insane so far!!!! In what other event can you score over 100 points can lose a match!
Craig Roys
07-04-2011, 21:55
Through the first 33 matches, day one had been incredible:
We're seeing an average score of just under 73 - which means average combined score so far is just under 146.
Average winning alliance score is 94 and average losing alliance score is 51.
We've seen a combined score of 215 twice.
We've seen an alliance score 106 points and lose.
I'm extremely excited to see what develops tomorrow and heading into Saturday. I'm thinking the the eliminations rounds will be insane.
Through the first 33 matches, day one had been incredible:
We're seeing an average score of just under 73 - which means average combined score so far is just under 146.
Average winning alliance score is 94 and average losing alliance score is 51.
We've seen a combined score of 215 twice.
We've seen an alliance score 106 points and lose.I'm extremely excited to see what develops tomorrow and heading into Saturday. I'm thinking the the eliminations rounds will be insane.
Also averaging over 2.5 successfully deployed minibots per match. Simply astounding.
KrazyCarl92
07-04-2011, 22:13
Also averaging over 2.5 successfully deployed minibots per match. Simply astounding.
And not a single match without a successful Minibot, wow!
The serpentine draft may very well "stack" the *bottom* alliances -- quarterfinals should all be furballs, too!
Bjenks548
07-04-2011, 22:22
One problem I am noticing for strategy is the robots are too good. Its very difficult to score with all three robots scoring, and the robots are good enough that all of them should be. Its bad telling a robot I just saw score 4 tubes on the top row that there going to have to play defense/ feeder this match.
nikeairmancurry
07-04-2011, 22:32
One problem I am noticing for strategy is the robots are too good. Its very difficult to score with all three robots scoring, and the robots are good enough that all of them should be. Its bad telling a robot I just saw score 4 tubes on the top row that there going to have to play defense/ feeder this match.
I don't think so.. In the 109-106.. All 6 robots were scoring easily... Its all about knowing where your putting the tube... And you can easily stay out of others way...
Whatever happened to "tube starvation" strategies?
Alex Dinsmoor
07-04-2011, 22:53
Whatever happened to "tube starvation" strategies?
We still see some starvation strategies, but for the most part we are seeing a flood.
As the matches get more important, we will see more and more starvation.
Chris Hibner
07-04-2011, 22:53
Whatever happened to "tube starvation" strategies?
The human players are too good. Too many human players that can throw the length of the field.
No one has mentioned it yet, but there was a practice match where the entire rack was filled with logos on the red side, and two red minibots made it up the pole.
nikeairmancurry
07-04-2011, 22:55
The human players are too good. Too many human players that can throw the length of the field.
No one has mentioned it yet, but there was a practice match where the entire rack was filled with logos on the red side, and two red minibots made it up the pole.
There were 4 practice matches with 5 logos
Coach Tom
08-04-2011, 09:46
Is the webcast working? I get to the page of Coderedrobotics but no video or audio? Address?
Is the webcast working? I get to the page of Coderedrobotics but no video or audio? Address?
http://www.coderedrobotics.com/webcast/Michigan-FIRST-Robotics-District-Competition-State-Championship/ works for me!
By the way, Q38 was 134-102. 236 total points!
Can anyone post the link to the standings? I am on my dads blackberry and it won't let me get to it through the FIRST websites.
Can anyone post the link to the standings? I am on my dads blackberry and it won't let me get to it through the FIRST websites.
Is this what you want? http://www2.usfirst.org/2011comp/events/GL/rankings.html
CassCity2081
08-04-2011, 14:24
Here are the standings http://www2.usfirst.org/2011comp/events/GL/rankings.html
Also, is it lunch break or is the webcast down?
musicspeaks
08-04-2011, 14:30
Here are the standings http://www2.usfirst.org/2011comp/events/GL/rankings.html
Also, is it lunch break or is the webcast down?
It was down, but it's back up now :)
Very impressive competition at Michigan. Wow.
How does that group of teams compare to the field we'll see in St. Louis? Are we going to see an average winning alliance score approaching 100 there?
Kudos to all the Michigan teams, what an awesome day of competition. I had the webcast up against a couple other regionals and there was no comparison. It was like watching Einstein compared to a Week 1 regional. Wow!
nikeairmancurry
08-04-2011, 19:47
I love watching matches were a group of teams can score 100 points and lose... It's so much fun to watch this... Did I mention the 6 tube auton???!!!
548swimmer
08-04-2011, 20:36
I love watching matches were a group of teams can score 100 points and lose... It's so much fun to watch this... Did I mention the 6 tube auton???!!!
We had one! And MSC is a truly amazing competition, and I'm looking forward to elims tomorrow!
nikeairmancurry
08-04-2011, 20:56
All matches to this point are online, thanks to 2337!
http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan
kwotremb
08-04-2011, 22:11
These matches are a blast to watch. When you see a team score over 100 and lose in multiple qualification matches, you know there are some high quality teams there. Glad I went in to support my team rather than head into work. Cant wait to watch the elimination matches. There should be at least one match then with all 6 ubertubes and all 4 minibots. Good luck to all the teams that make it to eliminations. Curious to see how everything will work out with the semi and finals being recorded. Definitely going to DVR that next weekend.
Does anyone else think we might see an entire side of the field covered with logos? I think the most was 5 of the 6 logos made during one match which was ridiculous.
FoleyParent
09-04-2011, 00:20
It seemed like the scores were running really high at the MSC. This made wonder what the average alliance score was. So I quickly averaged the red alliance and blue alliance scores from the match results. They currently are 75.8 and 79.9, respectively!!! This doesn't even include the elimination results. I wonder how that compares to other regionals running this same weekend?
Travis Hoffman
09-04-2011, 01:00
It seemed like the scores were running really high at the MSC. This made wonder what the average alliance score was. So I quickly averaged the red alliance and blue alliance scores from the match results. They currently are 75.8 and 79.9, respectively!!! This doesn't even include the elimination results. I wonder how that compares to other regionals running this same weekend?
Considering the MSC is comprised of teams who've had to earn their way there via a qualifying process vs. Week 6 regionals (or any other regionals) where anything goes, trying to compare them is rather irrelevant.
Naturally, OPR's reflect the "filtered" nature of the MSC:
0 OPR 217 63.1971
1 OPR 2054 54.3076
2 OPR 3539 51.9337
3 OPR 469 51.4599
4 OPR 548 46.708
5 OPR 27 45.4467
6 OPR 2137 42.8841
7 OPR 33 42.7585
8 OPR 2337 42.5653
9 OPR 1023 42.492
10 OPR 245 41.9155
11 OPR 67 41.8466
12 OPR 74 41.7564
13 OPR 2000 37.6843
14 OPR 1918 37.6422
15 OPR 494 37.0665
16 OPR 68 36.9266
17 OPR 1250 36.1123
18 OPR 573 35.3035
19 OPR 1718 35.2787
20 OPR 201 34.3753
21 OPR 51 32.1326
22 OPR 302 31.4854
23 OPR 3547 31.3266
24 OPR 326 31.0389
25 OPR 2145 29.8776
26 OPR 70 29.6905
27 OPR 3098 28.276
28 OPR 910 27.9009
29 OPR 308 26.945
30 OPR 3234 24.4481
31 OPR 2612 24.1668
32 OPR 1528 23.906
33 OPR 280 22.7003
34 OPR 1684 20.9915
35 OPR 226 20.7288
36 OPR 85 20.3404
37 OPR 2959 17.1181
38 OPR 2832 16.5081
39 OPR 3542 16.3976
40 OPR 3536 15.9605
41 OPR 2834 15.8259
42 OPR 2619 15.7058
43 OPR 2767 15.6863
44 OPR 1243 15.6028
45 OPR 3535 15.1242
46 OPR 1 15.091
47 OPR 2474 14.8213
48 OPR 2246 14.6719
49 OPR 66 14.5963
50 OPR 1941 13.7935
51 OPR 2586 13.6906
52 OPR 1504 13.588
53 OPR 830 12.5419
54 OPR 3548 11.0763
55 OPR 141 10.9416
56 OPR 503 9.56611
57 OPR 3620 9.46045
58 OPR 3688 9.36553
59 OPR 1596 9.30376
60 OPR 247 8.34541
61 OPR 1322 6.8221
62 OPR 818 2.41628
63 OPR 2604 -0.676305
2 OPR 3539 51.9337
Wow, they are really good! Even better than 1718...
Gotta love 201's acceptance speech :)
SavtaKenneth
09-04-2011, 13:35
Gotta love 201's acceptance speech :)
Could you elaborate for those of us who missed it?
The major upset of Michigan State Championships:
#FRCGL TY E MC 9 RF 91 BF 122 RE 469 201 217 BL 3098 74 548 RB 15 BB 50 RP 0 BP 0
The #1 Alliance gets knocked out by the #8 Alliance
flippy147852
09-04-2011, 15:38
The #1 Alliance gets knocked out by the #8 Alliance
Only in Michigan... ;)
Only in Michigan... ;)
And 2007 Championship:D :D
548swimmer
09-04-2011, 20:42
The major upset of Michigan State Championships:
#FRCGL TY E MC 9 RF 91 BF 122 RE 469 201 217 BL 3098 74 548 RB 15 BB 50 RP 0 BP 0
The #1 Alliance gets knocked out by the #8 Alliance
We try to do our best to mix things up :).
Thanks to 74 and the 3098, we couldn't have done it without you!
MagiChau
09-04-2011, 20:54
Anyone mind telling me who won the Autodesk Animation peer vote? We had to leave early.
Vikesrock
09-04-2011, 20:59
Anyone mind telling me who won the Autodesk Animation peer vote? We had to leave early.
3547 won the Autodesk award.
MagiChau
09-04-2011, 21:30
3547 won the Autodesk award.
I meant the animation contest about changing the world of the iikos, not the excellence in design. Sorry about that miscommunication.
Vikesrock
09-04-2011, 21:51
I meant the animation contest about changing the world of the iikos, not the excellence in design. Sorry about that miscommunication.
That animation contest about changing the world of the iikos is the Autodesk Excellence in Design Award
MagiChau
09-04-2011, 22:01
That animation contest about changing the world of the iikos is the Autodesk Excellence in Design Award
okay then, sorry about that.
The #1 Alliance gets knocked out by the #8 Alliance
This competition was not good to us... just check our qualification match schedule. Oh, and we're only 1 team away from qualifying for nationals -__-
Gaurav27
10-04-2011, 00:10
This is probably the first time, I've been inspired just by looking at numbers, truly "strength in numbers."
And 2007 Championship:D :D
Just had to remind me, didn't you? : )
Tom Line
10-04-2011, 09:30
Wow, they are really good! Even better than 1718...
We're very very proud of 3539's performance. They were chosen for the eliminations, and made it to nationals based on points!
(For those who didn't know, very few teams are eligible for the nationals from Michigan based on their points: I believe it's something like 12).
Now they're desperately scrambling to put together the funding. Go BULLDOGS!
For a hint of how hard it is to get in from Michigan, 3539 won a district (Waterford), were the finalists at Troy, won 2 Rookie allstar awards.... and was the LAST robot to make it to nationals in Michigan based on points.
What a wonderful event. The actions was absolutely unbelieveable. This Link really says it all:
http://www2.usfirst.org/2011comp/events/GL/rankings.html
With an average RS of 60.3 points!!!!!!! That means the average "losing" score was over 60 points before penalties.
I was in the TV truck a good deal of the weekend, and the footage should be amazing.
Thank you to all 64 teams for putting on a great show. It was truly a sight to behold.
Eliminations were as to be expected... Complete wild cards. 2 weeks ago I looked at the stats and saw that there would likely be 7 alliances capable of 100+ points. Then a couple more teams stepped up, and there were 8 alliances that really could have taken it yesterday. There were only 2 pairings that only went to 2. The QF were so exciting. 3/4 going to 3 matches. Semis were amazing as well. Then the finals really could have gone either way.
Bjenks548
10-04-2011, 09:36
Are videos posted anywhere of all the matches? Also thanks to 74 and again to 3098. Congrates to 33, 67, and 70 (just realized all 2 digit teams).
Are videos posted anywhere of all the matches?
http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan
Jim Zondag
10-04-2011, 10:03
Then the finals really could have gone either way.
Amazing event! That was the most competitive action I have ever seen in 15 years of FIRST. It was a real Championship. All 8 Alliances were stacked. Giant scores, major strategy, serious fun.
The HOT team lived up to their long standing reputation of being the best team in the world. Adam, Jim, it was great finally playing with you guys, after 12 years of playing against each other. You have a great team, great strategy, and a great robot. You are an inspiration to us.
More Martians were a steal. I could not believe that your team was still available at the 15th pick. Great job with the defense, tube delivery and minibot. You were the key to our victory. Excellent grace under pressure doing a Crio swap in 5 minutes in the Semifinals.
IKE is right, the finals could have gone either way. ONE POINT determined the winner. ONE POINT in 3 matches with totals over 200! Split second finishes on the minibots made the difference. Amazing.
Great Job by RUSH, Adambots, and Bedford Express! Your alliance was great and it was an honor to play against you. I hope at least one of you is in our division in St Louis.
I can't wait to see the ABC program next weekend.
ChristopherSD
10-04-2011, 10:06
This competition was not good to us... just check our qualification match schedule. Oh, and we're only 1 team away from qualifying for nationals -__-
We knew it would be close, but not that close. Our matches were very difficult...
If a backup is needed, at least we're the first to be used.
Congrats to the winners!
Wow what a great event... One big official mistake was elimination match 2-1 EngiNERDs clearly won this match but it looks like the refs or the score keepers got it wrong in the mini bot race. 245 did deploy a mini bot, but it finished 2nd!!! 1718 score there's first. The 30 points went Team Rush with 20 going to the EngiNERDs alliance. Finial score 101 - 98 The EngiNERDs alliance went on to win the next match. It should have been over. Competition VS GP you telling me after watching 3 days worth of mini bot racing that anyone would get this wrong? 1718 clearly had a faster mini bot they demonstrated it throughout the event. So sorry for the EngiNERDs alliance 1718 and 326 you guys got robbed. I did not check but I am sure this changed who is qualifying for nationals.
VID: http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan#p/c/133/LTnOYwfay34
Maybe I did not see this correctly it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys.
Wayne TenBrink
10-04-2011, 11:06
I want to explain the TRUE reason that the NC Gears didn't repeat as MSC Champions. It wasn't our robot, our drivers, our strategy, our opponents, or our "other" alliance partner - nothing as rational as that. It was the NC Gears/Martians Curse! Since 2009, the NC Gears have been winners or finalists at every event we attended with a few "curious" exceptions:
- 2009 TC Disrict: No Martians - Finalist
- 2009 Lansing District: With 494 Martians - Semifinalist
- 2009 WM District: No Martians - Winner
- 2009 MSC: No Martians - Finalist
- 2009 Newton: No Martians - Finalist
- 2010 TC Distric: No Martians - Winner
- 2010 WM District: No Martians - Finalist
- 2010 MSC: No Martians - Winner
- 2010 Archimedes: With 70 More Martians - Quarterfinalist
- 2011 TC District: No Martians - Winner
- 2011 WM District: No Martians - Winner
- 2011 MSC: With 494 Martians - Quarterfinalist
Not only that, but 2 of the 3 qualification matches we lost at 2011 MSC were with or against Martians. Yikes!
Oh, well. The NC Gears, Martians, and More Martians all qualified for the Championship. I just hope that we wind up in different divisions!
As you may know, my younger brother Jay is a mentor for the Goodrich Martians (494) & More Martians (70). As kids, we always played well together. As adults, apparently we don't. Maybe our Mother needs to have a few words with us.
But seriously, MSC was a great event. In the five matches we played on Saturday, there was only one where the losers (us) scored less than 100 points! Congratulations to everyone who made it there. Thanks to 494 for selecting us and 3539 for joining our alliance. Congratulations to 33, 67, and 70 on a well deserved victory. Thanks to all who make this event possible!
Don Wright
10-04-2011, 12:40
Wow what a great event... One big official mistake was elimination match 2-1 EngiNERDs clearly won this match but it looks like the refs or the score keepers got it wrong in the mini bot race. 245 did deploy a mini bot, but it finished 2nd!!! 1718 score there's first. The 30 points went Team Rush with 20 going to the EngiNERDs alliance. Finial score 101 - 98 The EngiNERDs alliance went on to win the next match. It should have been over. Competition VS GP you telling me after watching 3 days worth of mini bot racing that anyone would get this wrong? 1718 clearly had a faster mini bot they demonstrated it throughout the event. So sorry for the EngiNERDs alliance 1718 and 326 you guys got robbed. I did not check but I am sure this changed who is qualifying for nationals.
VID: http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan#p/c/133/LTnOYwfay34
Maybe I did not see this correctly it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys.
Actually, I believe I see 27 finishing first, and 1718 finishing second... It was a great and close match.
FYI...accusation and confrontational posts like this and then calling out the teams for GP to post their opinions won't get you very far on CD...
Ya, 1st = 27 2nd = 1718 3rd = 245
HighLife
10-04-2011, 12:57
Wow what a great event... One big official mistake was elimination match 2-1 EngiNERDs clearly won this match but it looks like the refs or the score keepers got it wrong in the mini bot race. 245 did deploy a mini bot, but it finished 2nd!!! 1718 score there's first. The 30 points went Team Rush with 20 going to the EngiNERDs alliance. Finial score 101 - 98 The EngiNERDs alliance went on to win the next match. It should have been over. Competition VS GP you telling me after watching 3 days worth of mini bot racing that anyone would get this wrong? 1718 clearly had a faster mini bot they demonstrated it throughout the event. So sorry for the EngiNERDs alliance 1718 and 326 you guys got robbed. I did not check but I am sure this changed who is qualifying for nationals.
VID: http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan#p/c/133/LTnOYwfay34
Maybe I did not see this correctly it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys.
If I remember correctly, the ref at that tower ruled that we deployed too early and we did not get points for our minibot. We didn't think it was possible because we have a 10.3~5ish second timer in code, but when teams are deploying their minibots that close to 10 seconds, how can a ref really tell? That being said, I think there could be a points argument for both sides, but that's just competition.
I think 27 tower was disabled that is why I edited my post. It would be GP for the teams to let CD folks and me who had to watch the hole thing on the web cast what went on.
Can't see but the lights show the tower is disabled
Even though 27's lights didnt trigger they did hit before 1718 and it was 245's pole that was disabled.
Richard Wallace
10-04-2011, 13:08
..., but when teams are deploying their minibots that close to 10 seconds, how can a ref really tell? That being said, I think there could be a points argument for both sides, but that's just competition.I recall that match -- was sitting right behind 548, across the aisle from 2337, so I had a good view of the tower. I thought 245's deployment might have been a little early, but it was a close call.
Generally, I thought the MSC refs got nearly all of the close calls right. The endgame moves very quickly, making those calls very tough for the refs.
Andrew Schreiber
10-04-2011, 13:09
Wow what a great event... One big official mistake was elimination match 2-1 EngiNERDs clearly won this match but it looks like the refs or the score keepers got it wrong in the mini bot race. 245 did deploy a mini bot, but it finished 2nd!!! 1718 score there's first. The 30 points went Team Rush with 20 going to the EngiNERDs alliance. Finial score 101 - 98 The EngiNERDs alliance went on to win the next match. It should have been over. Competition VS GP you telling me after watching 3 days worth of mini bot racing that anyone would get this wrong? 1718 clearly had a faster mini bot they demonstrated it throughout the event. So sorry for the EngiNERDs alliance 1718 and 326 you guys got robbed. I did not check but I am sure this changed who is qualifying for nationals.
VID: http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan#p/c/133/LTnOYwfay34
Maybe I did not see this correctly it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys.
27 Alumni here also a 2337 mentor, you heard from me ... not sure what this has to do with GP though. Oh wait, it is just another example of people using GP as a shield for them saying whatever they want and slandering other people/teams.
The call on the field stands there is no recourse, when a ref makes a call and stands by it there is nothing we can do after the fact. Evaluating why it happened and how we can avoid calls like that in the future may be of some value but calling out well respected teams sure isn't the way to do it.
BrendanB
10-04-2011, 13:11
I want to explain the TRUE reason that the NC Gears didn't repeat as MSC Champions. It wasn't our robot, our drivers, our strategy, our opponents, or our "other" alliance partner - nothing as rational as that. It was the NC Gears/Martians Curse! Since 2009, the NC Gears have been winners or finalists at every event we attended with a few "curious" exceptions:
- 2009 TC Disrict: No Martians - Finalist
- 2009 Lansing District: With 494 Martians - Semifinalist
- 2009 WM District: No Martians - Winner
- 2009 MSC: No Martians - Finalist
- 2009 Newton: No Martians - Finalist
- 2010 TC Distric: No Martians - Winner
- 2010 WM District: No Martians - Finalist
- 2010 MSC: No Martians - Winner
- 2010 Archimedes: With 70 More Martians - Quarterfinalist
- 2011 TC District: No Martians - Winner
- 2011 WM District: No Martians - Winner
- 2011 MSC: With 494 Martians - Quarterfinalist
Not only that, but 2 of the 3 qualification matches we lost at 2011 MSC were with or against Martians. Yikes!
Oh, well. The NC Gears, Martians, and More Martians all qualified for the Championship. I just hope that we wind up in different divisions!
As you may know, my younger brother Jay is a mentor for the Goodrich Martians (494) & More Martians (70). As kids, we always played well together. As adults, apparently we don't. Maybe our Mother needs to have a few words with us.
But seriously, MSC was a great event. In the five matches we played on Saturday, there was only one where the losers (us) scored less than 100 points! Congratulations to everyone who made it there. Thanks to 494 for selecting us and 3539 for joining our alliance. Congratulations to 33, 67, and 70 on a well deserved victory. Thanks to all who make this event possible!
Why didn't you tell our alliance captain on archi last year that you two were a black hole together! :eek:
Congrats though on 3 very successful seasons!
RyanCesiel
10-04-2011, 13:17
I recall that match -- was sitting right behind 548, across the aisle from 2337, so I had a good view of the tower. I thought 245's deployment might have been a little early, but it was a close call.
Generally, I thought the MSC refs got nearly all of the close calls right. The endgame moves very quickly, making those calls very tough for the refs.
I agree. With the increased competition in the minibot deployment and race, I think our referees did an excellent job.
Akash Rastogi
10-04-2011, 13:24
Only in Michigan can the 8th seed alliance put up a score of 143 points...just wow.
Watching youtube match videos all day:D
Wayne TenBrink
10-04-2011, 14:11
Why didn't you tell our alliance captain on archi last year that you two were a black hole together! :eek:
Congrats though on 3 very successful seasons!
We hadn't established much of a trend by that point...Sorry. Same to 3539, I guess. As for me and my brother, perhaps we should have listened to Mom when she said "Play nice together or somebody is going to get hurt!"
WOW you do not sound bias at all. Did not know that the simply two letters would cause so many folks to get all bound up inside "slandering other people/teams." Really? OK PLEASE READ THE POST BEFORE RESPONDING SIMPLY COPYING IT INTO YOUR POST IS NOT THE SAME.
WHAT r the facts: 3 mini bots went up two were scored???
::rtm::
Josh Fox
10-04-2011, 14:40
WHAT r the facts: 3 mini bots went up two were scored???
That seems to be the case. As stated previously, it looks like 27's mini won the race, even though it didn't appear activate the tower. That Adambots may have deployed slightly early as well from the look of it, justifying the tower deactivation.
I don't really understand how hearing opinions from the teams on the winning alliance has anything to do with GP.
Andrew Schreiber
10-04-2011, 14:46
WOW you do not sound bias at all.
You're right, I'm not. I have reasons for wanting both teams to win.
Did not know that the simply two letters would cause so many folks to get all bound up inside "slandering other people/teams."
You are the one who called out 27/245/1023, not me. You are the one who, instead of asking for clarification. No, wait, you asked for GP... whatever that is. " it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys."
Really? OK PLEASE READ THE POST BEFORE RESPONDING SIMPLY COPYING IT INTO YOUR POST IS NOT THE SAME.
Better? Did I read enough of your post this time? Remember, you are the one who called out teams. Had you asked for clarification for why things turned out as they had I doubt anyone would have had a problem explaining it. Instead you claimed 2337 should have won and, as I read it, that the alliance that won was not displaying GP. I'm not even sure how you are defining GP or why it is relevant to a call a ref made but the point is YOU called out teams. I responded because I have had experience with several of the teams you called out.
Talking to the refs after the match, they said this:
27's minibot won the race, despite the tower lights not activating.
1718's minibot came in second.
245's tower was disabled due to an early deployment.
There is your clarification.
Talking to the refs after the match, they said this:
27's minibot won the race, despite the tower lights not activating.
1718's minibot came in second.
245's tower was disabled due to an early deployment.
There is your clarification.
Watching from the stands, it looked extremely close. Because we were the Blue Alliance team, I obviously was immediately inclined to say that 1718's minibot went up first; however, watching the match video, I can't call it. It was so extremely close that there was no honest way for me to tell, since I can't watch both towers simultaneously. I think it could have gone either way, but it looks to me that RUSH's minibot scored first by a millisecond or two :eek: . Regardless, it was a close quarterfinals match. The red alliance and blue alliance matched each other in points throughout the round (Red by 3, then Blue by 43, then Red by 40, I believe). I trust that the referees made the right decision. That entire alliance was absolutely phenomenal, and I only regret that our alliance partners were having the sort of trouble that they were; otherwise those last two matches might have been as exciting as the first one.
Congrats to teams 27, 245, and 1023 for playing hard in the eliminations and coming within one point of upsetting a STACKED #2 seeded alliance, not to mention beating a strong #8 alliance in the semis. For anyone from that blue alliance in the quarters, please let this go. Sometimes mistakes are made, but don't go pointing fingers, especially since, in this case, I don't think there was one.
Coach#3536
10-04-2011, 15:19
A huge thanks from 3536 to all the teams we played against and with over the weekend. We believe that we really were part of something cool with the tube hang and the minibot race this year so far.
As the highest rookie seed we really enjoyed how the teams pulled with us in the end. We were able to keep our HIGHLY defensive robot up there in a mix of excellent tube hangers. While the Mini bot we had was consistent, it was no match to the blistering bots put up by Foley Freeze, TORC, Enginerds and by far not least MARTIAN were really awsome. I know there were many others that I didn't get to watch that I failed to mention. We hope to mimic some of the designs ideas we saw and have it on EPIC for St. Louis to help our role in the alliances next time.
We knew the defensive role in itself would be a tough sell at the end of the day. Even with keeping the hangers points down or off the board as we showed we could. Sorry to those that got knocked in the 1 vs 8 story. That was a heartbreaker. But it also is what makes a compelling story too. Yep MSC was wild for our first experiance there, crazy for sure. But alot of cool teams and the rookie tube hanging done by 3539 was impressive. Nice Job to EVERYONE we met very cool, thanks!
Eric Kosek
10-04-2011, 15:58
As the driver of Team 1718, that in the heat of the moment I thought that we beat 27 in the mini bot race and when they gave it the first place, like any driver would have been, I was very mad. After looking at it on video i realized that it was actually a very close race and that it was too close for to call. The ref already has one of the hardest jobs there is and I beleive that he made the right call. I realize that if I had been on 27's team, i would have been mad if 1718 got the first place points and cost us to lose the match so i beleive that even though it was a tough call, the ref made the right decision. The quarterfinal ended up going to a third match anyways although we had some drivetrain issues and I give all the credit in the world to 27, 245 and 1023. They were a very strong alliance, as was every alliance there, but to take the strong number 2 alliance to three matches in the finals was a feat in itself. The finals were three of the most exciting matches I have ever seen. Great job you guys.
Also congrats to 33, 67 and 70 on winning the championship. You guys all have awesome robots this year and I cant wait to see you guys down in St. Louis.
And thank you to Team 2337 for choosing us as your alliance partners and team 326 for joining our alliance. Both of you guys had two awesome robots this year and it was an honor to play with you guys.
techvikesmom
10-04-2011, 16:28
Congrats to TEAM 2054 "TECH VIKES" you did awesome, too!!!:)
You were reliable and a consistent robot in every concept of the tournament!!! We are so excited about going to Nationals at St. Louis.
Good luck to all teams going and see you there!!!
Michael Corsetto
10-04-2011, 18:27
Talking to the refs after the match, they said this:
27's minibot won the race, despite the tower lights not activating.
1718's minibot came in second.
245's tower was disabled due to an early deployment.
There is your clarification.
Thanks for the clarification!
I am concerned about 27 receiving the points despite the lights not triggering. Per TU#18, "So moving forward, we will be relying on the automated scoring of the MINIBOT RACE."
Is this not to be taken as a rule, and instead more of a guideline? At the Sacramento Regional, our (1868's actually) MINIBOT didn't trigger the tower in our last final match, but it was clearly first place in the MINIBOT RACE. We were not awarded the points, but it didn't matter since we won without that minibot. Earlier in the day, our actual MINIBOT (a slow one) hit one of the bolts as it attempted to trigger the tower, didn't trigger it, and we did not receive the points again.
So, is this a matter of inconsistency in the refereeing? Or was there something different about the situation with team 27? Because as I understand TU#18, if the tower doesn't show those lights, no points.
Also, for anyone interested, I attached a screen grab of 245 deploying early. You can see that the yellow light is still on the tower base and their MINIBOT is just barely within the BASE projection.
Awesome matches at Michigan, the World Championship is going to be intense!
-Mike
nikeairmancurry
10-04-2011, 18:29
Thanks for the clarification!
I am concerned about 27 receiving the points despite the lights not triggering. Per TU#18, "So moving forward, we will be relying on the automated scoring of the MINIBOT RACE."
Is this not to be taken as a rule, and instead more of a guideline? At the Sacramento Regional, our (1868's actually) MINIBOT didn't trigger the tower in our last final match, but it was clearly first place in the MINIBOT RACE. We were not awarded the points, but it didn't matter since we won without that minibot. Earlier in the day, our actual MINIBOT (a slow one) hit one of the bolts as it attempted to trigger the tower, didn't trigger it, and we did not receive the points again.
So, is this a matter of inconsistency in the refereeing? Or was there something different about the situation with team 27? Because as I understand TU#18, if the tower doesn't show those lights, no points.
Also, for anyone interested, I attached a screen grab of 245 deploying early. You can see that the yellow light is still on the tower base and their MINIBOT is just barely within the BASE projection.
Awesome matches at Michigan, the World Championship is going to be intense!
-Mike
Its seems the Ref right there... Jason was spot on...
There've been a couple of cases where lights just didn't work on a tower for some reason, but the scoring system picked up the points anyway. (Or, in the case I'm thinking of, it was known that the tower's lights weren't working and they hadn't fixed them, so they went by FMS times.)
It's triggering the tower, not turning on the light, that is important.
Michael Corsetto
10-04-2011, 18:55
There've been a couple of cases where lights just didn't work on a tower for some reason, but the scoring system picked up the points anyway. (Or, in the case I'm thinking of, it was known that the tower's lights weren't working and they hadn't fixed them, so they went by FMS times.)
It's triggering the tower, not turning on the light, that is important.
This makes sense, I was not aware that the status lights might not change even if a trigger is detected by the FMS. If this was the case, then no problems from the peanut gallery, carry on...
Overall, one of the best i've ever seen. Amazing.
I still felt a little angered by a couple things, but they weren’t too bad. I don't like it when people cheer because of other people's losses. I understand it when it is your victory, that’s fine. Example would be 469 last year, during the April Fool's joke. Tons of people were cheering wildly.
Although not nearly as bad, when the 8th seed beat the 1st seed, I felt it a little bit. Its ok to get excited about an upset (no matter what you think about the robots, if an 8th seed beats a 1st seed it is by default a technical upset) but please please don't be happy because of someone else's loss. I had a few friends on 217 who were irked by it, but again. It was not too bad, just something I noticed. And It happened more than just during the upset, it happened a little bit during award ceremonies, but I won’t get into that too much.
DON’T cheer because a team lost an award… That’s just plain wrong. Way worse than cheering because a team lost a match. Usually teams only get around one award per competition, and when I see (and hear from specific people who came up to me afterwards and complained) that certain people were cheering because a team won a certain award and not the one they wanted… wow…
Congrats to the winning alliance, you guys truly deserved it. I loved watching your matches; it really shows how awesome LOGO MOTION can be.
Also, I want to give a big congrats to teams 548 and 1023 on their chairman award wins. They are absolutely amazing and I really enjoyed walking through their booths and seeing their team's accomplishments throughout 2010-2011
Excited for Nationals :)
548swimmer
10-04-2011, 19:56
Although not nearly as bad, when the 8th seed beat the 1st seed, I felt it a little bit. Its ok to get excited about an upset (no matter what you think about the robots, if an 8th seed beats a 1st seed it is by default a technical upset) but please please don't be happy because of someone else's loss. I had a few friends on 217 who were irked by it, but again. It was not too bad, just something I noticed. And It happened more than just during the upset, it happened a little bit during award ceremonies, but I won’t get into that too much.
If I had to guess (and this is just a guess because I was obviously cheering for the win) I would guess that the primary reason people were cheering was because of the upset. 217 being upset is understandable, but on some level everyone wants the underdog to win.
Then again, maybe it just sounded like everyone was cheering because our team is so huge.
Haha :), well I know it wasent your team. And when I say cheering, its more like.. People coming up to me and saying things like "YES 217 is out!! LOLOLOL im soososos happy!" and then you realize that they are just happy because a team lost. And not because of the upset, or because their team won.
I could tell 548 was going wild, congrats, it was a great match.
548swimmer
10-04-2011, 20:12
Haha :), well I know it wasent your team. And when I say cheering, its more like.. People coming up to me and saying things like "YES 217 is out!! LOLOLOL im soososos happy!" and then you realize that they are just happy because a team lost. And not because of the upset, or because their team won.
I could tell 548 was going wild, congrats, it was a great match.
Ah, that makes sense to bring up. Things like that are just wrong, and should not be a part of FIRST.
This competition was not good to us... just check our qualification match schedule. Oh, and we're only 1 team away from qualifying for nationals -__-
Hope you make it in! Any word yet?
.
Great Job by RUSH, Adambots, and Bedford Express! Your alliance was great and it was an honor to play against you. I hope at least one of you is in our division in St Louis.
I can't wait to see the ABC program next weekend.
We had a great time sitting by the bees, cheering with the bees, and competing with the bees! You are one of the many teams in Michigan that has helped get Bedford Express where they are today! Thank you for your leadership and your kind words!
Wow what a great event... One big official mistake was elimination match 2-1 EngiNERDs clearly won this match but it looks like the refs or the score keepers got it wrong in the mini bot race. 245 did deploy a mini bot, but it finished 2nd!!! 1718 score there's first. The 30 points went Team Rush with 20 going to the EngiNERDs alliance. Finial score 101 - 98 The EngiNERDs alliance went on to win the next match. It should have been over. Competition VS GP you telling me after watching 3 days worth of mini bot racing that anyone would get this wrong? 1718 clearly had a faster mini bot they demonstrated it throughout the event. So sorry for the EngiNERDs alliance 1718 and 326 you guys got robbed. I did not check but I am sure this changed who is qualifying for nationals.
VID: http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan#p/c/133/LTnOYwfay34
Maybe I did not see this correctly it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys.
I don't think we got points for Adambots because their tower was disabled. I could be wrong yesterday was a blur and I am still trying to watch all of our matches. It was close, but I think RUSH did beat them to the top.
If I remember correctly, the ref at that tower ruled that we deployed too early and we did not get points for our minibot. We didn't think it was possible because we have a 10.3~5ish second timer in code, but when teams are deploying their minibots that close to 10 seconds, how can a ref really tell? That being said, I think there could be a points argument for both sides, but that's just competition.
.. Ahhh I should read all the posts before I post.. LOL It was great playing with you all, and I enjoyed yesterday much better than when you took us out in Detroit! :)
ChristopherSD
10-04-2011, 21:11
Hope you make it in! Any word yet?
All we can really say right now is that we're the first alternative in case another team cannot make it. It's been a very tough weekend. The fact that FEDS 201 was one spot off is really upsetting.
Congrats to 1023 on the award though!
Congrats to teams 27, 245, and 1023 for playing hard in the eliminations and coming within one point of upsetting a STACKED #2 seeded alliance, not to mention beating a strong #8 alliance in the semis.
Thanks!! It definitely was the toughest matches we have ever played. When I looked at the top 8, I knew it could go to anyone. I am thankful we were able to contribute to our alliance and play a different position than we had ever played this season. The thing I love about FIRST in Michigan is that there are great teams that are willing to help build great teams which lead to great friendships and promote all of FIRST values! It is a GREAT state to play robots! :)
Jay TenBrink
10-04-2011, 21:22
In my 11 years in FIRST this was one of the toughest competitions I been a part of. It was almost like the last few years at IRI only without the talent show.
As field coach for the Martians, team 494, it was once again a great pleasure to play side by side with the NC Gears and be behind the glass with my big brother. It was also my pleasure to work with team 3539 Electro Eagles. You guys are a class act. Sorry to bring you into the Martian/Gears jinx (see above).;)
As mentor for More Martians team 70, It was a great honor to be invited to join forces with two of the greats in FIRST Robotics: The Killer Bees and HOT.
As I have said before, no other team has helped our team more that team 33, and no other mentor has helped me over the years more that Jim Zondag. Thanks again.
Sorry Andrew Schreiber Clearly GP was not a good word combo (I really have not earned the right to use such a heavily waited word) its an Adjective and a Noun I obviously used it incorrect. I still think your comments were not very "gp" (lower case). This is were you may consider switching to decaf.
Other than this single match (Elimination Qtr 2-1) I think the Ref's did a great job.
Thanks for the clarification!
All we can really say right now is that we're the first alternative in case another team cannot make it. It's been a very tough weekend. The fact that FEDS 201 was one spot off is really upsetting.
Congrats to 1023 on the award though!
I bet! We have a few empty seats on our bus and a few extra BX shirts. :) Seriously though, hope you all get in. .. and thank you!
BX would like to thank team 67, RUSH and team 245, Adambots for digging down into the rank list to see our robot's performance instead of our results from some tough matches! We had a great time working with you. Kyle, you are a FIM legend and as a coach, I learned so much working with you and listening to you yesterday. Your team has shared many resources with my team. Being able to play in some very intense matches with you all was an honor!
I would like to thank many teams for helping 1023 grow into a Chairman's team!
Team 67-You all have inspired us and led us and helped us grow. Tom, your faith in us has pushed us higher than maybe I even thought we were capable.
Team 27 - You have shared many resources with us! We used your toolkit to revamp our program last year and look where it took us. How sweet to be able to play with you in the championships and be awarded the Chairman's Award in the same year!
Team 503 - We love the frogs! Thanks for being there to answer questions any time we had them and for helping us reach the next level! You are an inspiration and winning Chairman's with you was an honor!
Team 201 - Your help with scouting and strategy last year has lead to a whole new scouting procedure for us! We had the best scouting we have ever had this year. Thanks for helping us see the importance of good scouting! We had some of our highest scoring matches with you this year! We hope you make it to worlds!
Teams 33, 51, 217, 469, 1528 - Thank you for always being there with spare parts, assistance and support! We truly appreciate you and all you do for this program!
Team 3773 - We are so proud of you for winning highest rookie seed in Livonia and for all you have accomplished since creating your team last December! Looking forward to seeing you grow next year!
Dave V. - You are the BEST MC in the WORLD! Thank you for all you do! Actually being one of the teams that was introduced while you were doing your trademark handstand was SUCH an honor!
Juan and Tom - You two are awesome MC's as well! Thank you both!
Team 2137 - TORC! We have really enjoyed getting to know your team this year, winning Livonia with you, and building friendships. Thank you for letting us run our mini-bot up in our last match together! We know you took a risk with that and we will never forget it! Hope we are in the same division so we can play together again!
Thanks to all of the volunteers who make this program work. Thanks to Gail and Pam for all of your work to make this state so strong! Thanks to EMU (my alma mater) for hosting this event!
The cool thing about Michigan FIRST is that everyone shares, everyone helps, everyone cares AND when you go to St. Louis you have so many friends. We are really looking forward to seeing you all there and seeing who will be in our division!
GOOD LUCK to ALL Michigan teams! See you in St. Louis!!
Wayne TenBrink
10-04-2011, 22:05
Congratulations to Ken Platteshorre for winning the Woodie Flowers award. Ken is a quiet guy who works tirelessly for the West Michigan robotics community. He is a role model for other mentors as well as the students on his team.
Craig Roys
10-04-2011, 22:13
Wow what a great event... One big official mistake was elimination match 2-1 EngiNERDs clearly won this match but it looks like the refs or the score keepers got it wrong in the mini bot race. 245 did deploy a mini bot, but it finished 2nd!!! 1718 score there's first. The 30 points went Team Rush with 20 going to the EngiNERDs alliance. Finial score 101 - 98 The EngiNERDs alliance went on to win the next match. It should have been over. Competition VS GP you telling me after watching 3 days worth of mini bot racing that anyone would get this wrong? 1718 clearly had a faster mini bot they demonstrated it throughout the event. So sorry for the EngiNERDs alliance 1718 and 326 you guys got robbed. I did not check but I am sure this changed who is qualifying for nationals.
VID: http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan#p/c/133/LTnOYwfay34
Maybe I did not see this correctly it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys.
245's tower was disabled because the ref said they deployed early so that wasn't even a factor in the match - after rewatching a couple of times, it seems they did in fact deploy early. The race between our minibot (1718) and RUSH's was very close. I know that we deployed a split second after RUSH, but I didn't see who hit first. Even though our tower showed first place, the refs saw RUSH's hit first - their tower malfunctioned (what a surprise that one of the towers might malfuntion). It was a judgement call and I didn't see anything to contradict it. The real problem is the inconsistency of the towers in important close races like that one. No one was robbed. Make no mistake - 27, 245, and 1023 deserved that win as evidenced by their performance the rest of the way.
74Robotmom
10-04-2011, 22:25
Congratulations to Ken Platteshorre for winning the Woodie Flowers award. Ken is a quiet guy who works tirelessly for the West Michigan robotics community. He is a role model for other mentors as well as the students on his team.
I'll second the congratulations! My family has been involved for 5 years now with Team 74-Holland CHAOS, and most importantly Ken and his fabulous team of coaches and mentors. Ken is one of the most giving people I know, and his almost limitless generosity and contagious love for FIRST is unmatched. CHAOS has had an awesome season this year, and it's wonderful to know that we'll be going to St. Louis not only to represent Michigan on the Championship field, but to also cheer on Michigan's Woodie Flowers recipient!
Way to go Ken-the Refresh Family is very proud of you!
flippy147852
10-04-2011, 22:58
It was also my pleasure to work with team 3539 Electro Eagles. You guys are a class act.
Just to clarify, 3539 are The Byting Bulldogs, not the Electro Eagles (3536).
There were so many 35xx teams at state, so your confusion is understandable.
Thanks for picking us both to join you. We were so close to moving on!
J@GMFlint
11-04-2011, 08:14
Congrats to all who qualified & attended MSC, you (we) all have a lot to be proud of. One of our high points was being a part of the 6-tube Autonomous!
To those who made it into the eliminations, absolutely outstanding work! Regardless of the outcome, don't sweat the ref. calls, etc. You were the best of the best in MI! Those of you who are going to the CMP will do quite well. I know it's been said before, and debated, but as those who have been there can attest, and support by the numbers, the MSC is by far the toughest Official FIRST event in the world- look out St. Louis!
Team #1243 would also like to extend special thanks & congratulations to Team #326 for teaming up with us in the mini-bot race & adding some extra-firepower to pull-off a couple of surprises, your m-bot was awesome! Also, on your winning the Gracious Professionalism Award! After the experience our team had with you guys, and the positive impact it had on our team (a couple students in particular) we were all so happy you guys had won. Great Work for such a small team!! :)
Re: #1 being beat by#8 and booing/cheering. To anyone who's beein in FIRST for a while in MI, there are a few teams who always seem to be in the elims, because they are truly awesome teams. When some of them pair together, it paints an almost perfect picture of the "high-powered" alliance just by name. Having been an under-dog several times before, pulling off an upset creates a huge release of energy and emotions in everyone at the event as it is simply unexpected. Not that anyone is necessarily "pleased" that a good team lost, afterall everyone loses sooner or later. I wonder, if it would have gone the other way -as some might have expected- would the subject have even came up because the release of energy and cheering might not have been as loud?
pathew100
11-04-2011, 11:40
I was your scorekeeper at MSC this past weekend. I should be able to clear up some confusion about the tower lights vs minibot order.
We have to change the order of the minibot race when host robots hit the tower and trigger the scoring inadvertently.
This happened a couple times in the eliminations. We can adjust the scoring correctly but we can't change the tower lights to show the correct finish order. So it can be confusing if you are just watching a video and looking at the lights.
We had refs, the FTA, FTAA and myself watching all of the "drag races" to ensure we got the order correct. There are also refs assigned to each tower to determine early deployment and tower disables.
We had many matches where four minibots scored in 4 seconds so this was very challenging!
Amazing event! That was the most competitive action I have ever seen in 15 years of FIRST. It was a real Championship. All 8 Alliances were stacked. Giant scores, major strategy, serious fun.
The HOT team lived up to their long standing reputation of being the best team in the world. Adam, Jim, it was great finally playing with you guys, after 12 years of playing against each other. You have a great team, great strategy, and a great robot. You are an inspiration to us.
More Martians were a steal. I could not believe that your team was still available at the 15th pick. Great job with the defense, tube delivery and minibot. You were the key to our victory. Excellent grace under pressure doing a Crio swap in 5 minutes in the Semifinals.
IKE is right, the finals could have gone either way. ONE POINT determined the winner. ONE POINT in 3 matches with totals over 200! Split second finishes on the minibots made the difference. Amazing.
Great Job by RUSH, Adambots, and Bedford Express! Your alliance was great and it was an honor to play against you. I hope at least one of you is in our division in St Louis.
I can't wait to see the ABC program next weekend.
Congratulations to ALL the MSC participants. Viewing from afar, this was definitely edge-of-my-seat entertainment. Kudos to all, especially the refs & the field crew!
Insanely efficient tube scoring...
Incredible human players...
Tenacious defense...
Photo-finish minibot races...
Record-setting combined scores...
...and Mr. David Verbrugge... wow.
:)
I can't wait to see the ABC program next weekend.
What ABC program are you referring to?
Chris Hibner
11-04-2011, 12:11
What ABC program are you referring to?
FIRST In Michigan Championship Powered By Chevrolet
All ABC affiliates in Michigan on Saturday, April 16 at 1 p.m. WJRT in Flint will air it on Sunday. (I have my TiVo set for it, so if you have TiVo it should already be in the database.)
ABC videotaped the event. They are making a 1 hour video which will show the semi finals and finals. It was really cool. They put a high def. camera on all of the captain robots. I know they got video of the Martians shanging their cRIO. I also believe that Paul Copioli was commentating. It'll definatly be worth watching.
They also put camera's on the minibot towers so there should be some great footage on that. Especially the matches where the tower was shaken a bit from contact.
(what a surprise that one of the towers might malfuntion). It was a judgement call and I didn't see anything to contradict it. The real problem is the inconsistency of the towers in important close races like that one. .
They should have used at least these (http://www.boltdepot.com/material.aspx?cc=13&cs=73) bolts from the underside of the tower plastic disk so that minibots could not hit the bolt heads. Better yet an elevator bolt or shoulder bolt.
Craig Roys
12-04-2011, 08:26
They should have used at least these (http://www.boltdepot.com/material.aspx?cc=13&cs=73) bolts from the underside of the tower plastic disk so that minibots could not hit the bolt heads. Better yet an elevator bolt or shoulder bolt.
I don't think it was a bolt problem - I believe 27's minibot, like ours, is not wide enough to hit one of the bolts. I think the problem (at least from my understanding) comes from the delay programed in to prevent false triggers. FIRST didn't expect minibots to hit and be gone so fast not giving the tower enough time to trigger.
Adam Freeman
12-04-2011, 08:52
WOW…what an insane event!
I can honestly say that I have never seen a more deserving collection of teams at a competition. There were teams that should and would have made elimination rounds at any other tournament in the country, that weren’t in these eliminations.
Unfortunately for some teams, there were some amazingly stacked qualification alliances…this lead to some awesome displays of offensive power and some unique defensive strategies for how to counter act it. It was a joy to watch all of the qualification matches that I could.
To all our friends, it was great to be able to see and play with everyone again. One thing I love about this event is that there is almost never a time where you can’t find someone interesting to talk to about robots.
As everyone has already mentioned, the elimination were incredible. The strength of that #8 alliance was unreal. I couldn’t decide which team I wanted to win in that last SF match.
Congratulations to 27, 245, and 1023…you guys were awesome. 3 matches…1pt victory, crazy tube scoring, awesome human players, minibot “drag races”….just crazy!
To RUSH, I hope there will come a time soon where we can work together instead of competing against each other. You guys are awesome, and we would love an opportunity to play with you.
Killer Bees and HOT…finally….what (?) 12 years in the making. I mentioned to the other mentors before the season started this was the year we finally play with 33. We were denied at Kettering, but this is even better. Jim, it was awesome to be on the same side of the glass with you! I think we worked great together. It was great to know our scouting teams worked well together, also.
More Martians, you guys are always great to work with. Last year at Kettering and again this year…you guys do whatever we need you to do. Your tube running in the quarters and semis was awesome and your defense in the last match was outstanding. Plus the versatility you gave us on the minibots was great. I have never seen a cRIO fixed that quickly. I am really glad Jim kept believing in you guys, I was really nervous that something was going to happen. You guys earned it!
Congrats to all the Chairman’s teams and all the other teams that qualified for St. Louis. Let’s keep the streak of Michigan teams in the Championship match going!
Steve Ketron
12-04-2011, 09:15
WOW…what an insane event!
I can honestly say that I have never seen a more deserving collection of teams at a competition. There were teams that should and would have made elimination rounds at any other tournament in the country, that weren’t in these eliminations.
I agree, our team (1528) had an awesome time. We were on 4 alliances that scored over 100 points and another match were we hung 10 tubes and still didn't get picked. That says a lot for the teams that did. Great job Michigan in putting together such a great competitive competition.
I'll continue to congratulate everyone who made the eliminations rounds, considering the fact that EVERYONE deserved to be there (evidenced by #8 upsetting #1, #7 giving #2 a ROUGH time, and #4 coming close to the upset victory in the finals); however, special congrats go to Teams 67, 33, and 70 for being champions; 503, 1023, and 548 for winning the State Championship Chairman's Award; and all of the other award winners for representing the best of the FIRST in Michigan powerhouse.
mrRefresh74
12-04-2011, 12:50
I checked our local listings (Grand Rapids/Holland, MI) and WOTV is carrying it, but WZZM (Channel 13) is not. Saturday, April 16 at 1:00 p.m.
Chaoskitty
12-04-2011, 17:15
Team 74 would like to thank teams 3098 and 548 for joining us in the quarter and semi final matches. We couldn't have made it as far as we did without your help.
To teams 469, 201, and 217, it was great playing against you guys.
stuart2054
13-04-2011, 07:54
Congratulations to ALL the MSC participants. Viewing from afar, this was definitely edge-of-my-seat entertainment. Kudos to all, especially the refs & the field crew!
Insanely efficient tube scoring...
Incredible human players...
Tenacious defense...
Photo-finish minibot races...
Record-setting combined scores...
...and Mr. David Verbrugge... wow.
:)
I second this sentiment. Congratulations to all teams that competed, it was awesome to watch. The seeding matches were great and showed just how many good teams there are here.
All eight final alliances were impressive and the outcome of it was a true "cliff hanger". You wouldn't think it would be with the "Bee's", "HOT" and "More Martians" together, (that alliance would put fear into any FRC alliance) but there were many awesome teams and powerhouse alliances.
Many thanks to team 2137 "TORC" for choosing the TECH Vikes and to 910 "Foley Freeze" for your valiant efforts. We enjoyed working with both of you and hope to do so again.
tr6scott
14-04-2011, 10:57
Many thanks to team 2137 "TORC" for choosing the TECH Vikes and to 910 "Foley Freeze" for your valiant efforts. We enjoyed working with both of you and hope to do so again.
The Honor was ours! That is a great bot, and so efficient in movement. Great minibot too!
Congrats to all the elimination teams, Wow!
A special thanks to 33 and 1023 for picking 2137 at the Kettering and Livonia districts, and our first and second Blue Banners. It has been a story book year.
I also look forward to the Nationals, and some Michigan alliances. :)
A special thanks to 33 and 1023 for picking 2137 at the Kettering and Livonia districts, and our first and second Blue Banners. It has been a story book year.
I also look forward to the Nationals, and some Michigan alliances. :)
I second the story book year! That is what we feel about this year. It was great working with you in Livonia! Looking forward to worlds! I take it you got your crate re-made?
I second the story book year! That is what we feel about this year. It was great working with you in Livonia! Looking forward to worlds! I take it you got your crate re-made?
I guess I can say "Third" even though I wasn't a part of yours. Coming into our team's fourth season skeptical about the design of our robot and apprehensive about seeing how it would stack up against veteran team designs, it was incredible to finish the District season with two District championships and a District Chairman's Award. As my third season with the team (and the team's fourth), it was as indescribable of an experience as I have had thus-far in FRC, and I hope that our team can succeed in its constant and long-term goal of improving on a working system.
I guess I can say "Third" even though I wasn't a part of yours. Coming into our team's fourth season skeptical about the design of our robot and apprehensive about seeing how it would stack up against veteran team designs, it was incredible to finish the District season with two District championships and a District Chairman's Award. As my third season with the team (and the team's fourth), it was as indescribable of an experience as I have had thus-far in FRC, and I hope that our team can succeed in its constant and long-term goal of improving on a working system. You guys did awesome!!!
You guys did awesome!!!
Thank you! And congratulations on your State Championship Chairman's Award win. We were pulling hard for it, but we're just too young and haven't done nearly enough to deserve it. You, on the other hand, were more than qualified for it, and I was glad to see you all win.
And we'll definitely see you at the Championship!
Thank you! And congratulations on your State Championship Chairman's Award win. We were pulling hard for it, but we're just too young and haven't done nearly enough to deserve it. You, on the other hand, were more than qualified for it, and I was glad to see you all win.
And we'll definitely see you at the Championship!
Thank you and don't sell yourselves short.. That was a tough crew to compete with! So many amazing teams. There was a time not so long ago that we thought we couldn't ever win it. Just keep pushing for your goals. The good news is, FIRST in Michigan is affecting a lot more than robots! :) So many teams doing so many things! You have a very strong team!!! Keep up the great work! See you in a couple weeks!
Speaking of.. anyone need a ride? We have a couple spaces left on our bus for stowaways! :)
Here is the broadcast schedule of the Michigan State Championship for around the state of Michigan:
SATURDAY, APRIL 16, 1:00-2:00 P.M.
Detroit / SE Michigan
WXYZ-ABC 7
West Michigan (Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek)
WOTV-ABC 4
Traverse City / Cadillac
WGTU-ABC 29 & 8
SUNDAY, APRIL 17, 11:00 A.M. - 12:00 P.M.
Tri-Cities (Flint, Saginaw, Bay City)
WJRT-ABC 12
SATURDAY, APRIL 23, 1:00-2:00 P.M.
Marquette / Calumet
WBKP- ABC 10
Spread the word!
MagiChau
15-04-2011, 17:55
I am wondering if the organizers and sponsors of this program are planning on putting the FIRST Robotics Competition Michigan State Championship on local television in future years or is this just a test to see how well it works?
Think I am going to have time tomorrow to watch the program and see how good it looks.
FoleyParent
16-04-2011, 09:40
The producer, who we ran into at the Traverse City district, said this is definitely a test. He saw states last year (I think while covering the story for WXYZ, ABC Detroit) and fell in love with the idea of trying to put it on TV. He then pitched it to the network and GM as if it was a sporting event with brains to get them to buy in.
So, he said, if we would like to see FIRST on TV again next year, we need to be sure it has the ratings. So, get everyone you know to record it or watch it, so it gets the ratings it needs to be on again next year! Or better yet, gather a group for lunch at your favorite sports bar and watch it on their big screen. That's what we are doing. Think of all of the extra people you will be exposing robotics to at the restaurant.
It was recorded and will be aired in HD, so the quality should be great! For those of you out of the Michigan viewing area, why not go to wzyz.com and ask them if they are going to make it available on the internet afterwards or if they will be streaming. The real questions then will be... what tab would be listed under, 'Entertainment' or 'Sports'.
Bjenks548
16-04-2011, 12:47
Is there any place online I can watch the show? I'm currently not in Michigan and am going to miss it.
MagiChau
16-04-2011, 12:49
I checked television program listing for WOTV and it appears that the program called the "Michigan First Robotics Championship" is color-coded as a sport.
Did anyone record the showing? If someone did, could they post a link on CD for people to watch? I don't live in Michigan, and I checked the wxyz site but they didn't live stream it. The idea sounded amazing, and I really wanna see how the footage from atop the towers turned out XD
Pat McCarthy
16-04-2011, 15:44
I recorded the ABC broadcast in Standard Def on my computer and cut out the commercials. The end credits says the copyright belongs to FIRST in Michigan, so if I get an ok from them, I think that allows me to post it online. Anybody know if this is an accurate assumption?
I know I would have to wait until all of the ABC affiliates air the program, so as not to detract from the ratings before I could do anything with it though.
Don Wright
16-04-2011, 20:33
How was it? I'm in Europe and missed it (hopefully my DVR got it)...
How was it? I'm in Europe and missed it (hopefully my DVR got it)...
I thought it was awesome!
Chris is me
17-04-2011, 00:15
How was it? I'm in Europe and missed it (hopefully my DVR got it)...
Good news is you guys got picked first... after that, not so good...
Don Wright
17-04-2011, 06:18
Good news is you guys got picked first... after that, not so good...
Gee...thanks... I was more talking about the show... Was it produced well...give FIRST a good light... Could it have drawn some non-FIRST'ers in to FIRST?
Gee...thanks... I was more talking about the show... Was it produced well...give FIRST a good light... Could it have drawn some non-FIRST'ers in to FIRST?
It went very fast. Overall, it looked pretty good. We were watching at CK Diggs, so the audo was tough to follow.
A couple of points I would like to see for next year.
1. Instant replays of deciding quarterfinal factors so that all 24 teams get a quick shout out. This would eat up about 6-8 minutes, but I think it would be nice to "set" the stage.
2. Live scoring total. They didn't have the live score posted, so it was difficult to tell what the score was until the end of the match. I know two minutes isn't that long to wait, but a live tally really helps.
Otherwise, the action seemed fast paced and very captured very well. I am excited to watch it again.
Oh, I was just reminded. A special thanks to Paul Copioli. He did an excellent job on the play by play. I wish you guys could have heard his quarterfinal analysis as we were practicing the instant replays. There was a higher variety of key moments in the quarters than just minibots and ubertubes. Anyone who watched/listened to Waterloo knew that PC was the right person for the job.
David Doerr
17-04-2011, 08:38
Did anyone record the showing? ... I really wanna see how the footage from atop the towers turned out
I recorded it in HD on our DIRECTV box, but I don't know how to transfer it to my computer. I'd be glad to share if I can figure out how to do it -- and if I can satisfy myself regarding any copyright issues.
I was fun seeing the minibot races from the tower tops.
Gee...thanks... I was more talking about the show... Was it produced well...give FIRST a good light... Could it have drawn some non-FIRST'ers in to FIRST?
I thought it was an excellent show and very well done. There were several overtures made to non-FIRST'ers -- you don't have to be an engineer to start a team -- go to this web site (FIM) if you are interested in starting a team -- etc.
To introduce the game they used footage from the game pieced together that ended up being a lot more entertaining than the FIRST animation.
My only criticism -- I wish a better job had been done introducing and explaining FIRST at the beginning of the show. There were several nicely-done profiles throughout the show, one of how Team 51 and Pontiac High School took shape from Teams 65 and 47 and Pontiac Northern and Pontiac Central ... another of rookie Team 3688 which made a good plug at how to go about starting a new team ... one of Wayne and Jay TenBrink ... and another of Gina and Russ Sweet.
Before seeing the show, and having been at most of MSC, I confess I was apprehensive about how things would come across on-screen. However, all of the game announcing on the show was by Paul Copioli doing a first-rate job (intentional pun) with his play-by-play and explanation of the game and strategy. I haven't heard a FIRST play-by-play as well done as this one. I learned a lot. I have advice for you coaches who want to learn how to do a better job -- find a recording of this show and listen to Paul.
Carolyn_Grace
17-04-2011, 08:45
Gee...thanks... I was more talking about the show... Was it produced well...give FIRST a good light... Could it have drawn some non-FIRST'ers in to FIRST?
hahaha, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time waiting to see who won. ;)
Seriously, in my opinion, it was really great. It went by so fast though. Filming the semis and finals took agonizingly long, yet the actual robot action was chopped down to about 25-30 minutes (due to commercials, short awards ceremony, and some interviewing). I enjoyed the background information that they recorded of some of the HOT and Martian mentors. Next year it would be nice to see some background information on some of the students. Also, one hour just didn't feel long enough. Though I'd like to hear from someone who had never seen a FIRST event and tuned in to the show. I wonder if the one hour was just enough time for someone like that.
GaryVoshol
17-04-2011, 08:47
I thought it was a great show. They edited the order of the matches, so that all the games of one semi-final were shown before the other semi-final, which was good for the general audience.
Some good human interest stories too - rookies from Suttons Bay, Gina and Russ Sweet, the 47+65=51 merger. Maybe next year one of those stories can focus on Chairmans and other not-directly-related-to-the-robot activities.
While the importance of Ubertubes was stressed, I don't think the autonomous aspect was emphasized enough. I'd also have liked to see more on the design/build process (although that was touched on in the Suttons Bay story).
The high-def video was great - no comparison to the YouTube and other videos we usually see.
The commentators did a good job with it. Heather did some good sideline interviews, and the other announcer (can't remember his name) made some insightful comments and questions for only having seen the game for such a short time. And of course Paul is Paul - if anyone still doubts the rationale for having a good strategist behind the glass, just listen to his commentary. I never dreamed that the coaches were thinking all those things that he came up with. And he didn't even get on the referees, well, not too much ...
I think it was a great showcase of the competition. If it gets done again, there will be time for a little more depth so that viewers can get the idea of what kind of full-season commitment the students and mentors make.
[QUOTE=GaryVoshol;1053718]
The commentators did a good job with it. Heather did some good sideline interviews, and the other announcer (can't remember his name) made some insightful comments and questions for only having seen the game for such a short time. [QUOTE]
The anouncer's name was Jimmy, and he really did his research. Not only did he go through kick-off, but he had watched a whole bunch of matches on Youtube, and read a lot on Chief-Delphi (you never know who will be looking in) beforehand. I sat in on the pre-production meeting and was impressed with the quality of the thoughts and question he was asking. He did a great job documenting the "unkowns" he had as an "outsider", and then asking Paul those questions to get an insider's perspective.
It was also neat to hear the crew getting excited during the filming. After watching a day or so, they had picked their favorites and were making predictions.
Huskie65
17-04-2011, 09:47
1. Instant replays of deciding quarterfinal factors so that all 24 teams get a quick shout out. This would eat up about 6-8 minutes, but I think it would be nice to "set" the stage.
2. Live scoring total. They didn't have the live score posted, so it was difficult to tell what the score was until the end of the match. I know two minutes isn't that long to wait, but a live tally really helps.
Otherwise, the action seemed fast paced and very captured very well. I am excited to watch it again.
Oh, I was just reminded. A special thanks to Paul Copioli. He did an excellent job on the play by play. I wish you guys could have heard his quarterfinal analysis as we were practicing the instant replays. There was a higher variety of key moments in the quarters than just minibots and ubertubes. Anyone who watched/listened to Waterloo knew that PC was the right person for the job.
Overall very well done. Really liked the 51 piece (I'm biased lol)
*I'd have liked them to show the apprehension and excitement of the crowd as the scores were actually announced (especially the finals) instead of just throwing them on the screen for the viewer.
They've been running FLR on live tv the last few years all day long. They even had Paul Copioli doing color commentary last year. It wasn't on ABC. They ran it live on public access over two days (no way the bog networks would agree to run a full FIRST event from start to finish). They do a great job. I wish they would do this at every event. FIRST rates that kind of treatment.
The Cyborg
17-04-2011, 10:41
I really enjoyed the broadcast. It did a great job simplifying the game to any outside viewers.
I also enjoyed the part where they did an insight on a couple of teams, especially 51. The best part about the bit on 51 was that I didn't even know about it ( I blame college ), so I was extremely excited to see my team get highlighted. They did an exceptional job on providing insight on the background of the team, and the adversities they faced from the merger of two rivaling schools.
As for the automated scoring, it did look like they tried to fit that in because they had spaces above for the red and blue alliances. I'm guessing they ran out of time before they can put in real time scoring.
The ABC crew and Copioli overall did a fantastic job on covering the event, and I do hope they will be back to do the same next year :)
PayneTrain
17-04-2011, 10:56
I'd really like to see how Michigan's ABC affiliates put together their broadcast. In Virginia, our ABC (EDIT: CBS) affiliate in Richmond televises Scholastic Bowl/Battle of the Brains. How can you not pitch a more "live-fire" scholastic competition on a relatively quiet weekend in broadcasting. It would also fill up a chunk of E/I programming if it can be counted as such.
EDIT: Well, CBS isn't exactly low on things to broadcast in March and April... maybe we could pitch it to the PBS affiliates in Charlottesville and Metro Richmond. My grandparents get the idea behind the competition, but they are too old to really brave the rush downtown and come see it. I'm sure other kids can look at it that way. Not to mention the outreach VAFIRST could generate from the broadcast.
I'm really hung up on this idea...
Craig Roys
17-04-2011, 11:16
Next let's see them do this with the finals on Einstein...of course getting a national/world tv market is a little more difficult than one state/region. It would be cool to see it on ESPN2 or something like that.
TNT280Staff
17-04-2011, 11:39
My DVR puked on me so someone please post up the broadcast so we can watch it / save it. Someone contact Gail Alpert to get the approval from FIRST in Michigan to post it up. I'm quite sure that this is something that would like to be shown in as many venues as possible - Remember it was a homework assignment!!
Patrick Seeney
17-04-2011, 11:44
I thought that they did a great job, kept it engaging and entertaining for the audience at home. Paul was an excellent color commentator and I too agree you could see how his understanding of the game and strategies really made it easy for the viewer at home to know what is going on.
The only area that was confusing was with the other cameras. I watched it on a big screen, and they had the 6 other camera views on the side. It was tough to see the action on my big screen, so I can only imagine on smaller tv's. I think if they would have cut to some of those shots during the match, it would have made the action more intense. I found myself focusing mainly on the main camera. I know that ESPN does things like this online where you can select different angles to view during game. Something like that could make use of the angles and integrate them more in to the action.
Editing was great, transitions were great, and the side stories were even greater. The sideline reporting was amazing in that it showed the emotion as events were developing and you could see the excitement in the students faces. I too thought playing the matches in a row really helped keep the audiences attention. Only piece of advice here is that there needed to be a scoreboard of some sort on TV. Paul did a great job of keeping up to date on the score, but that is a must in any sporting event.
Paul was an excellent color commentator and I too agree you could see how his understanding of the game and strategies really made it easy for the viewer at home to know what is going on.
Spot on, I think. Paul did a great job of explaining things as they developed in a timely fashion while not being to intrusive. His analysis was very good, and his criticism was, I think, generally well placed.
The only area that was confusing was with the other cameras. I watched it on a big screen, and they had the 6 other camera views on the side. It was tough to see the action on my big screen, so I can only imagine on smaller tv's. I think if they would have cut to some of those shots during the match, it would have made the action more intense.
I noticed that they did cut to those cameras quite frequently, but within reason. I think that it was, generally, well done. I'm not sure if I would have even left those there in the first place and, instead, just cut to their feeds from time-to-time.
Editing was great, transitions were great, and the side stories were even greater. The sideline reporting was amazing in that it showed the emotion as events were developing and you could see the excitement in the students faces. I too thought playing the matches in a row really helped keep the audiences attention. Only piece of advice here is that there needed to be a scoreboard of some sort on TV.
I couldn't agree more. The way that the show was put together was, I though, phenomenal. And the brevity of the entire broadcast meant that it was more engaging for the person not involved with FIRST than it would have been otherwise. It's programs like this that can really expand FIRST even further, and make FRC a more widely-known program.
I recorded the ABC broadcast in Standard Def on my computer and cut out the commercials. The end credits says the copyright belongs to FIRST in Michigan, so if I get an ok from them, I think that allows me to post it online. Anybody know if this is an accurate assumption?
I know I would have to wait until all of the ABC affiliates air the program, so as not to detract from the ratings before I could do anything with it though.
I checked with Gail Alpert from FiM. She loves the idea of posting that online. However she prefers if we can post the HD version of it. Did anybody record it in HD? Also FiM has a channel already on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan
I believe Team 2337 took all those match videos and Clinton maintains that channel. I would like to have the ABC broadcast uploaded into that channel. I will have all the videos linked from the FiM website.
Also FiM has a channel already on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan
I believe Team 2337 took all those match videos and Clinton maintains that channel. I would like to have the ABC broadcast uploaded into that channel. I will have all the videos linked from the FiM website.
The produced broadcast is certainly in a class of its own, but yes, we do have the FiM videos up. If anyone did record the broadcast in HD, we'd be glad to have it, or even have you upload it. Check with Clinton.
We're also in the process of moving HD (1080p) to youtube, and are getting to Troy currently (thanks to Jared; it was originally his pet project and he continues to run the program). See http://www.youtube.com/user/jfmiles94
We're also in the process of moving HD (1080p) to youtube, and are getting to Troy currently (thanks to Jared; it was originally his pet project and he continues to run the program). See http://www.youtube.com/user/jfmiles94
For right now, the videos on my channel are only of 2337's matches, as I've had trouble with figuring out a good way to streamline the upload process (when each video is approximately 250 MB and I have 100+, it's difficult to tend to the attempts). For next year, I'd like to see if I can't find a way to get all of the videos online with similar video quality and improved audio.
Regardless, hopefully you all can find something worth watching on the channel!
Clinton Bolinger
17-04-2011, 14:57
If someone would like to send me a copy of the broadcast, I will be sure to post it on the www.youtube.com/FIRSTinMichigan channel.
-Clinton-
FoleyEngineer
17-04-2011, 15:54
I recorded it in HD. I can see if I can post it on the YouTube channel. I'm not sure if there's a limit to how long a video can be. I'd be surprised if you can post an hour-long video. I might need to do it in pieces.
I'll see what I can do and post back here when I have something to report.
Take care,
John
P.S. I agree. It was great! My only suggestion would have been to show the "real-time" score as the matches progressed. Looking at a wall of tubes just isn't the same - especially for new viewers. All other sports do it, and with how fast the score changes, it's pretty helpful.
My only suggestion would have been to show the "real-time" score as the matches progressed. Looking at a wall of tubes just isn't the same - especially for new viewers. All other sports do it, and with how fast the score changes, it's pretty helpful.
I think the difficulty there was integrating the FMS scoring with the broadcast score. Also, unlike in other sports, FRC Match scores are only tentative, and aren't always correct in real-time. I think that not showing a running score would cause less confusion with people who would see one match score when the timer hit zero and a completely different score after penalties were figured and minibots scored.
Patrick Seeney
17-04-2011, 16:16
I think the difficulty there was integrating the FMS scoring with the broadcast score. Also, unlike in other sports, FRC Match scores are only tentative, and aren't always correct in real-time. I think that not showing a running score would cause less confusion with people who would see one match score when the timer hit zero and a completely different score after penalties were figured and minibots scored.
This broadcast was all put together post competition. With all the camera angles and production notes taken, they could have kept the score relative to what was happening. I understand that the score at the end changes...but that is part of the suspense, especially in those really close matches.
FoleyEngineer
17-04-2011, 16:40
Well, I'm uploading it now. It's a 6gb file (hey,it's HD!). I installed the YouTube Advanced Video File Upload option, sowe'll see... I wouldn't be surprised if YouTube kills it because it was recorded off the air and they usually call that a copyright infringement. It does contain all the ads and everything so that might help, but I doubt it.
I'm uploading it right now at about 500kb per second. With 6gb to go, that works out to about 30 hours!
PayneTrain
17-04-2011, 16:47
They will only kill a video when requested by the owner of the copyright. You have permission to do it anyway, so there shouldn't be a big deal at all.
Patrick Seeney
17-04-2011, 17:15
Well, I'm uploading it now. It's a 6gb file (hey,it's HD!). I installed the YouTube Advanced Video File Upload option, sowe'll see... I wouldn't be surprised if YouTube kills it because it was recorded off the air and they usually call that a copyright infringement. It does contain all the ads and everything so that might help, but I doubt it.
I'm uploading it right now at about 500kb per second. With 6gb to go, that works out to about 30 hours!
Are you uploading the raw footage? I am not sure what editing suite you use, but Final Cut Studio has a program called compressor. You can easily compress that video down to a manageable size and still maintain the quality. I believe there is a youtube setting already in there, but you can easily play around with the many many settings it has.
FoleyEngineer
17-04-2011, 19:45
I decided to transcode it to DivX in an AVI wrapper. That got it down to 1.6gb. Should be done in 470 minutes. We'll see!
Did this get posted?? Whats the title? Thanks.
FoleyEngineer
18-04-2011, 19:03
Okay, it's up!
Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq1Lq_n3Tfc
Let me know if it works for you all.
Take care,
John
Very nice John. It worked perfectly for me. And thanks a million. I'm in Texas and didn't get to see it before I left.
Okay, it's up!
Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq1Lq_n3Tfc
Let me know if it works for you all.
Take care,
John That is SWEET John! So far. works for me! (on the first commercial break now after 2 semi's) THANKS SO MUCH for doing that!!! WOOT!
I really appreciate this! I've already watched parts of the youtube video. The quality is excellent. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated, sir!
Vikesrock
19-04-2011, 00:04
Thanks a ton John! Those of us outside Michigan really appreciate it.
Those of us outside Michigan really appreciate it.
Agreed. Best way to spend a Monday night ever. :) Now I gotta work on bringing something of this sort to Kansas for the Greater Kansas City Regional...
TNT280Staff
19-04-2011, 19:11
Thanks John for taking the time to do this for the rest of us, it is greatly appreciated
... There were several nicely-done profiles throughout the show, one of how Team 51 and Pontiac High School took shape from Teams 65 and 47 and Pontiac Northern and Pontiac Central ... another of rookie Team 3688 which made a good plug at how to go about starting a new team ... one of Wayne and Jay TenBrink ... and another of Gina and Russ Sweet.
... all of the game announcing on the show was by Paul Copioli doing a first-rate job (intentional pun) with his play-by-play and explanation of the game and strategy. I haven't heard a FIRST play-by-play as well done as this one. I learned a lot. I have advice for you coaches who want to learn how to do a better job -- find a recording of this show and listen to Paul.
... and excellent use of the super-slow-mo and 'screen chalk' ... well done.
Thanks John for taking the time to convert and upload... thank you for sharing and letting us non-FiM folks enjoy the program.
fireyoshi
20-04-2011, 13:25
This show just makes the Michigan District Format that much better: for less money, you get two events, a state championship, and a professional-quality television broadcast.
For a regional, you pay more, and just get ten matches + elims.
I am so jealous :)
I also liked how they explained the game at the beggining. Short, sweet, to the point.
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