Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please? [Archive]

popnbrown

01-05-2011, 14:43

I personally can't say how I felt as a team member in the stands as I'm an alum, and my team wasn't there. But I don't think the pit fields were terrible. It seemed like you could easily talk in the pits without having to talk over ridiculously loud speakers. And it definitely helps for commute and scouting. I actually always disliked having the fields all the way in the Dome at Georgia.

First time I went in 07, we were in Archimedes which was on the farthest side from the entrance. So it was either you stay in the pits or you stay in the stands...which was terrible. I jumped back from Curie and Newton all the time. Even ran over to the dome towards the end.

Other than that, the only thing I missed was the middle outside little park in Atlanta. Good memories! And the carnival, which they tried to attempt here but didn't work out so well. The concert totally made up for that though.

Also, all the companies that were on display this time, was very very cool. I was super impressed. At how much stuff was going on and it seemed so efficient and well organized. Not to mention a bus and car that I saw, that were moving FIRST Championship ads and all the restaurants welcoming the FIRST Championships. It was pretty awesome and I'm excited to go back next year.

Edit: They should definitely add more stands, I think that addition would make it pretty great.

Kevin Sevcik

01-05-2011, 14:44

So first, the good things about St Louis. The trip from the pits to the dome was great for people and robots. Parking was super convenient. Pits were good and I liked the layout. Traffic wasn't too bad in and out of downtown.

I wouldn't have minded fields in the pits, if there was anything approaching adequate seating. I didn't even try to watch the Curie Elims because there wasn't any hope of getting a seat anywhere. And there were certainly a number of teams that didn't help matters by trying to save seats. Clearly some teams didn't bring their gracious professionalism.

Matters weren't helped by the strange lack of a video feed in the pits. It was pretty annoying keeping track of the current match when we were in the dome on Friday. The lack of video feed, current match display, or updated rankings list forced me to use the FRC Spyder app to keep track of things. So I found it a bit laughable when the pit announced that we shouldn't trust any iphone or android apps for match schedules. I presume we should have just rented the magic 148 ball to stay on time.

Also, I feel like I should apologize to 359 for missing their Chairman's presentation. I skipped the concert because my wife would have had a panic attack in the concert and, you know, no one ever said anything about anything important happening at that optional concert thing. It sure would've been embarrassing if my team won it and I wasn't there with them. I'm also told that the complete lack of crowd control left our team mom/regional director in fear of her life when half the student population at championships tried to shove through a small set of doors to get to the concert. So I'm still glad I skipped the concert.

And don't get me started on Load-In. One guy with handing out the wristbands and jotting down team numbers on a cardboard box? I could have dragged two kids further up the line and gotten some wristbands for team 47 in addition to team 57. Cramming everybody through four doors in the morning wasn't that great either.

Sooooooo on the whole, I think St Louis has a lot of potential, but needs some serious work on signage and crowd control to get back up to the level of Atlanta.

Chexposito

01-05-2011, 14:57

the fields in the pits were better than i anticipated for the drive teams. i really liked my pit because we could watch matches for our division when bored on thursday and saturday, but i also got to see Galileo compete on friday, something the dome never really permitted for those in the pits or on drive team with 100% dome fields. the one bad part was that the noise in the pits increased rapidly, and the safety inspectors got complained to teams when people came by our pit for various reasons when the majority of the path was taken up by standing field spectators... the concert had one problem that i thought i never would have seen as happening... crowd surfing started and PEOPLE WERE INJURED. from what I saw, a member of 1305 was crushed by one of these surfers. this was sickening to me because an innocent person was injured due to a concert that they went to that was designed to be a reward to their efforts. i don't know what else to say about this, maybe a no crowd surfing rule? people need to be considerate of those around them? i don't know how to fix it, but i have never heard any good stories about what happens when someone finishes their crowd "surf"...

Chexposito

01-05-2011, 15:12

i think the problem with wednesday was the rain... i think everyone would have been a lot more forgiving to each other without it, the traffic would have been able to clear before the doors opened because teams wouldn't be afraid of getting their stuff wet... maybe a rain load in strategy for the pits? it would be nice if there was some area like the georgia dome, where the buses could load and unload. the load in/out there was really easy, the doors were big and the pits were not accessible by this area, so loading into a building was possible...

fuzzwaz

01-05-2011, 15:12

Before I give you all my thoughts, I would like to congratulate the championship winners, and especially 359- every time I was able to visit your pit during the championship I left in awe. You guys truly deserve it.

I was disappointed in a lot of things... But It was also extremely fun because I love being part of the FIRST community. Instead of going on about all the things I liked and disliked, I just want to talk about one thing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friday afternoon, my team was approached by a ref and told us that there were rumors going around that said that this year's 2011 chairmans award was going to be presented during the concert (AKA in a few hours). Rumors are rumors. I didn’t know what to think of it, so I didn’t worry much about it. I also had some MAJOR issues with that rumor for a lot of reasons.. Including...

-Some teams will not be attending the concert for various reasons. I know of a few teams personally who had scouting meetings or just didn’t want to go. Thankfully I am positive that all of 359 was there to accept the award, otherwise I would have been even more disappointed if they decided to reveal the winner at the concert and the team they choose being nowhere in sight.

-The judging of the award was altered to be ready for the concert. All presentations were held on Thursday, and the final decision was made before Friday night. So for the teams that were curious, that’s why it seemed as if question asking was light this year. ALTHOUGH, I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION EVEN WITH THE REGULAR JUDGING STYLE. I'm just noting that they even adjusted the way the judges had to prepare for this award (and awards in general) all for the concert.

-I think the number is 52? 52 teams compete for the chairmans award at the world championship? (or 50, 51, correct me please). I don't know how many of those teams knew about this rumor, if any. My team knew just solely because a ref of a team friend, and warned us to go. I heard a few other teams heard about it, and I also heard a lot of people did not hear about it. FIRST threw a concert so students could enjoy their time at the championship, but announcing to 51 other teams that they lost an award in the middle of a concert seemed kind of harsh to me.

-Besides all the discomfort this may have brought to a few teams, I was also unsure of the benefits this brought to the winning chairmans team. If I recall, no video was ever played, and as I anxiously waited to see excited students raise up that large clock in pure happiness, I never did. The clock was never officially handed to 359. Not to mention, I still am in love with the past's tradition of announcing the award during the finals, with ALL eyes on you. It has always seemed so magical, and everyone could just feel all the hardwork a team as done. Watching 341 stand up and start hugging each other while the crowd went wild was.. amazing to me. I REALLY hope 359 enjoyed themselves and had an amazing time at the concert, but I would not recommend FIRST does that again.

Overall.. Feel free to disagree with my opinions. I feel like they could have handled this better. The concert was REALLY fun and awesome to watch. Better than expected in my opinion. I just feel like they could have just waited the extra day, and announced some of those awards the day later. (Although the dean's list winners on stage was something I would recommend again)

Billfred

01-05-2011, 15:14

From my perspectives:

YAY:
-Playing in the pits was not bad at all.
-The robot commute to the dome was painless.
-The concert and the food after Einstein were awesome, and much appreciated.
-The LED curtains on Einstein were a nice touch, even if they rendered some logos with finer-width lettering (read: just about every college) illegible.

BOO:
-Sitting in the pit field stands was rough. I don't think anything further needs to be said there.
-The commute to the stands for spectators was a hike.
-Having seen it now, I totally get that an enlarged FTC area meant at least one field wouldn't fit in the dome regardless of the entertainment. (Bill Miller was highlighting that this change was already in the works for the move beforehand.) Given how much it got CD and teams (via the FRC Live questions box) riled up, I wish they'd mentioned this in advance to head it off the grumblers at the pass.
-The lack of music on Einstein took a little bit away from the spectacle...though if the i.am.FIRST crew (which was filming from that small platform near Einstein) is the reason, I'll give them a bit of a pass this time.
-I noticed that the noises on the pit fields could get a little loud for those in nearby pits (like us), while pit announcements could overpower the pit field PA. Perhaps some curtains would help block the sounds.
-It felt like the Hall of Fame was put way out in the boonies. I hope they'll be featured a bit more next year.
-Unlike the Georgia Dome, you don't really get a good perspective on where you are from the concourse unless you look through the portals. Some extra signage to highlight what field you're near (and how to get back to the pits--I know I made a couple of block-long dashes at first) would greatly aid navigation.
-At the risk of being nit-picky...drop the picnic chicken from the pre-order lunch list. It was pretty bad (though the other options I had, and the service, was fine).

That looks like the cons are longer than the pros, but most of them are pretty easily fixed. I give the overall experience a B+--no small feat for the first time trying to hold the event in a new facility.

vhcook

01-05-2011, 15:14

I attended championships purely as a spectator. I spent most of my time in/near Newton. I had to leave Friday evening, so I can't comment on Saturday. For a first time in the city and venue, I think things went fairly well, but there is definitely some room for improvement.

The pit fields were very cramped. In addition, it was quite difficult to hear the person standing next to you in the pits immediately adjacent to those fields, and I needed earplugs (which were kindly provided by team 1764). I can't imagine how crowded it would have been during eliminations. Things were considerably better in the dome, plus I was able to see some FTC matches during FRC's inter-match gaps. I was delighted by the quality of many of the matches, and I had a great time talking to teams that don't normally attend the same events I do.

FIRST Conference was as usual, a delightful learning opportunity. I had a bit of trouble finding them Wednesday evening, but I had allowed extra time, so that wasn't a problem.

Food options were plentiful and good, although there was a bit of a shortage of trash cans in key areas. There was plenty of seating available for lunch. Parking was easy and reasonably priced, even when I arrived a bit late Friday morning. Traffic in and out was not a problem.

It was hard to find the ballroom for the Dean's List presentations, and since my feet were already tired the standing got a bit old. I'm short, so I ended up using my camera as a periscope to see over the sea of bodies to the stage and the screens around it. The energy level was good.

The Collegiate Aerial Robotics Demo was neat, and I'm glad I got a chance to see it.

The venue maps posted around the building were helpful, although difficult to read at my height (5'2"), and in quite a small font. In addition, the second floor was not mapped - if it had been, I wouldn't have had any trouble finding things.

All things considered, I had a wonderful time, and I'm looking forward to attending next year.

Tristan Lall

01-05-2011, 15:21

the concert had one problem that i thought i never would have seen as happening... crowd surfing started and PEOPLE WERE INJURED. from what I saw, a member of 1305 was crushed by one of these surfers. this was sickening to me because an innocent person was injured due to a concert that they went to that was designed to be a reward to their efforts. i don't know what else to say about this, maybe a no crowd surfing rule? people need to be considerate of those around them? i don't know how to fix it, but i have never heard any good stories about what happens when someone finishes their crowd "surf"...I was surprised when I heard that FIRST was willing to sanction a standing crowd during the concert. There was an incident a few years ago (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=322864&postcount=8) that caused FIRST to restrict that sort of activity. (I'm not sure where I stand on allowing/disallowing/not caring about that sort of behaviour at an FRC event.)

Cyberphil

01-05-2011, 15:40

Although the event was proposed to be a complete disaster by some people, I was pleasantly surprised. This was only my second time to the championship event, but it was not far off from Atlanta in terms of overall quality of the event.

Goods:
The pit fields were very convenient and allowed students on the drive team to take a quick walk over and watch a few matches in between their own matches. They were also extremely exciting and filled with enthusiasm.
Edit:The college level competition was really interesting! Aftering hearing about it when it was first announced publicly, I was excited. Looks like this could be the next FIRST competition.
At least for us, our hotel, The Renaissance Grand, was right across the street from the Americas Center, and a 8 minute walk total to the pits. Could not have worked out better.
Loading and unloading was not bad (besides the rain). It seemed there was plenty of space for the teams to bring their stuff in and out.
I thought it was nice they fed us (Despite how basic it was) on Saturday after the closing. The St. Louis cookies were a nice touch! :p

Bads:
The stands for the pit fields NEED to be bigger. Significantly bigger! Two times what they had might be enough.
At least in the place in the pits where we were, the lane seemed very crowded. There was definitely not as much space as Atlanta, but with a few changes, I think they could make it work better.
The performance was pretty awesome, but it would've been nice to let some more people into the, "Mosh Pit," area (on a lottery basis or something) as it was kind of dead in there in most parts. I understand that there were smaller kids in there, but it was really calm where we were.
Edit: The only other complaint I had was the placement of the HOF booths. It seems they were figured out last minute where they would go, so they were put in a corner. Maybe this is bias because I was over there more than most people, but I think they should be celebrated a bit more.

Overall, a great experience. I am glad the negative feelings were proved wrong. Great job volunteers, planning committees, and FIRST! :D

DblD22

01-05-2011, 15:43

The good.
I liked the shorter distances to the fields both in the dome and the pit fields.
Inspection and inspectors helpful and efficient.
Numerical pits made it easier to find people who needed parts and help.
Even though it seemed crowded the shorter distances to many of the displays and the other levels of FIRST was nice.
Robo Prom was great!! and enjoyed by all my team.
Concert Saturday was great as far as team members concerned. Adult feedback was too much emphasis on making a video of it which was distracting. I put it in the good since we a here for the kids!

The bad.
Load-in was very bad. No covered unload area and nothing done to accommodate teams who arrived a little before 5:00 PM. Should have let teams offload and come inside to wait to go to pits. I went through one door that had no one checking in and the next door had one very slow person (linear single tasker) checking in only those coming in that door (about 5 minutes per team). Again teams lined up outside in rain! Event coordinator Jerry saved the day for us but don't know how others fared.

Bleachers way too small.

Newton field in the dome located 15' too close to the stands. Couldn't see 1/2 of the competition floor without standing up.

Adult coaches on the floor way to pushy and looking out only for their own team - don't need adult coaches on the floor in the first place but that is another issue. Seeding is when teams get to show what they can do and in many cases checkout fixes and teams should be allowed to demonstrate their robot to their fullest. Again winning is not everything - just the robot being able to function as designed is a victory for many teams.

Several teams (primarily rookie) around us expressed disappointment in the treatment by other teams - yelled at their drivers when their robot had problems during seeding rounds, etc. My team saw some of this since we had communication problems during most of seeding but since we have been around a while and don't have the win at all costs attitude of some of the teams we just ignored them. We were there to have fun, help others, and learn from the designs of other teams. FIRST is not just about winning the robotics portion of the competition. I felt really bad about one team who had travel a long way that expressed doubt they would ever return to the championship.

Shepard shipping was poor. Took an 1-1/2 hours to get our crate and finally had to go get it ourselves when we located the crate and found one of the crate handlers leaning on their pallet truck. Observed as many a six pallet handlers sitting around doing nothing while Shepard continued to tell us it was being delivered. If Shepard want a separate document it needs to be included with the shipping paperwork at check-in - you shouldn't have to go through line twice to get checked out. Shepard lines need roping to help control the inconsiderate people. (Like Atlanta in 2009 when FedEx handled it). Overall it took me over 2-1/2 hours dealing with Shepard.

Saturday night - just forget it. Atlanta in 2009 was OK - food was good and spread out enough to have some fun, even if it was just Frisbee. St. Louis food poor, not enough activities and couldn't find anything without a lot of walking around. Just don't do it if you can't make it memorable.

Don Davenport
Team 2655.

Chexposito

01-05-2011, 15:57

I was surprised when I heard that FIRST was willing to sanction a standing crowd during the concert. There was an incident a few years ago (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=322864&postcount=8) that caused FIRST to restrict that sort of activity. (I'm not sure where I stand on allowing/disallowing/not caring about that sort of behaviour at an FRC event.)

i was surprised too, they told our team that the wristbands were for "special seating" we didn't figure that was "floor" until we distributed the tickets where some said "floor" and others had sections.

i do however find it funny that so many of the students were watching the teleprompter that they had a staff member hold a sign in front of it. also there seemed to be a lack of energy in the finals crowd (late night...). i remember the massive waves on all the decks last year, the crowd beach balls, all of which were fun. especially when we got into doing more than one wave per level and people used their physics knowlege to go really high up when they met and both sides of this continued the respective waves. oh well :rolleyes: i guess this is where i miss the georgia dome.

the airplane throwing competition was fun to watch though. especially the crowd reaction to them making it far (to the torn down devision field area) or to the awards stage

Dan Petrovic

01-05-2011, 16:09

Man, this will be my first time posting in years, but since I was able to attend and I opinions, let's let them fly!

The Good
St. Louis - It was a nice area that wasn't too crowded, the parking around the dome was incredible and, I felt, that there were plenty of places to eat in and around the dome. Also, the people from the area all seemed extremely interested in what was happening in their dome.
The Saturday Afterparty- I had been to Atlanta twice and getting dinner was never that easy. They were EXTREMELY prepared to feed all of the people there and they were able to get food to every very quickly and easily. Well done there. Also, the Talent Show was everything we've come to expect after years of seeing the IRI Talent Show.
The distance between the dome and the pits - I'm glad that I don't need to pack a lunch before going between the stands and the pits.
The weather - I know those in charge have no control of this, but it's still worth noting that the weather was fantastic.
The concert - Not only did it have the teams excited, but the commoners on St. Louis were excited to hear that the Black Eyed Peas would be in town. That was a ton of fun. Would attend again.
The hour before the Einstein matches - I never knew that music and airplanes would make waiting around so much fun.
utcjobs.com/first - As a college student, this is very much appreciated.

The Bad
The concert - The effect that this concert had on the rest of the competition cannot be overlooked.
The fields in the pits - This wouldn't have been so bad if there was more seating, or more space around the field. It felt like the Boilermaker Regional, but with twice as many teams. There's no way that would work.
Einstein matches - I don't know about you guys, but I felt that Einstein was rather lackluster. Not to take anything away from the teams who played there, congratulations to you all, but it wasn't what I was expecting this game would end with. Maybe it was the lack of music, which I'm assuming had to be done because of the I.Am.FIRST, but that doesn't make it any less true.
Announcing the Chairman's Award Winner at the concert - This might be my biggest gripe of the whole event. My team was able to attend the championship event because of winning the RCA at GSR. We got on the floor, which was awesome and had a ton of fun at the concert. However, there were people from my team that did not go to the concert because they were tired, did not care for the Black Eyed Peas, etc. How would they have felt if they had not been there to receive the Chairman's Award? It wouldn't have been so bad had we been told that the Chairman's Award winner was going to be announced, but we had no word of that.

All in all, the sheer volume of the event still made it a great place to be. I just hope that this publicity that FIRST is getting wont continue to get in the way of the experience that the students are having. If you ask me, I'd tell you that FIRST is great no matter what the celebrities say.

Nemo

01-05-2011, 16:38

Good:

The availability of good seating for Einstein was much better in St. Louis than it was in Atlanta. Having more space around Einstein and having the upper levels open was key.

The convenience of immediate free boxed supper after Einstein was really amazing - I am hoping we see this again in the future. Best idea ever.

Finishing Einstein on time was much appreciated.

The concert was really cool. I was initially negative toward that idea, but it turned out to be great for the students. Even if it made us more exhausted on Saturday morning.

Allowing pit work and inspections on Wednesday evening was GREAT.

Starting qualifiers on Thursday afternoon was GREAT.

Bad:

Having every single door on the 9th street side of the pits closed was really annoying. At least setup a single door as an exit for people who parked over there.

I got confused trying to get from the pits to the dome. Some well placed signs would help directions stupid people like me.

The pit fields made the pits very noisy.

No field monitor screen in pit area.

Crowded / uncomfortable bleachers in pit fields.

fsgond

01-05-2011, 17:05

I have to say that one of my biggest problems that I had was the seating at the concert. Our team was up as high as you could possibly be, not by choice mind you. We could not understand what the speakers were saying. Also we could not actually see the black eyed peas. It could have been 4 of our team members down there, and I could have not told the difference. I felt as though we got the bad end of the deal when there were teams that were right up at the stage. If the would have rotated the entire venue 90 degrees there would have been more seating at a reasonable level.

I am sure that a lot of these problems will be addressed after a few years.

Grim Tuesday

01-05-2011, 17:09

Watching the Einstein webcast, they didn't play music, or the music wasn't broadcasted to the web viewers. It make the whole event seem toned down.

I was forced to play thunderstruck in the backround myself :(

elemental

01-05-2011, 17:16

Pros:
- Fields in the pits
- Roboprom
- Black Eyed Peas Concert (Letting Chairman's teams have floor tickets was a nice touch.)
- Meeting Hall of Fame teams
- Attending the Chief Delphi WebHug
- Aerial Robotics!

Cons:
- Little space outdoors or indoors to decompress. It seemed that anywhere I went was loud and crowded.
- The Black Eyed Peas concert. Taking up half of the arena made the commute to Galileo/Newton much longer as everyone had to use the same route.
- The wrap party. It was extremely chaotic and my team decided to leave earlier than planned to because of the crowds.
- Seating for the fields in the pits.
- Having Chairman's interviews on Thursday.

DeAnnaC

01-05-2011, 17:25

Just a few more thoughts (and I'm from St. Louis):

Pros:
It was nice sleeping at home each night!

I thought for the most part, the layout in the Convention Center with pits and vendors was good, there were some traffic jams (esp when returning from the dome at the first corner).

The St. Louis Planning group did a good job of getting the word out - we saw it on multiple billboards, soda cans, at the little screens at gas stations, on sheets attached to pizza boxes, etc. We ran into a family in the dome who had seen it on tv and drove over from Illinois. We helped them into the convention center and gave them info to navigate around (do we need a 'Are you new to FIRST? ' table?

I had a blast at all the events, and it may be next weekend before I've recovered. The Black Eyed Peas - I'm glad we went, I thought the video clips (esp Jack Black's) was hilarious. It was good to laugh. We decided we were way too old to be down on the floor, lol.

The talent show - we are just glad more people were able to witness Fishboy. And it's always nice to see the variety of talent that these kids have.

The collegiate teams - that was very interesting - they need more seating and a posted schedule :)

Cons:
The price of parking, even at the same lot. On 2 days we had to leave and return, and the price at the same lot had changed while we were gone.

The STINKY tennis shoes from our team mates after standing in the 6 inches of water to unload - they were dry by the next day but in a small vehicle each day back down there the smell was awful, maybe the shoes need replaced? Ugh.

Lack of things for younger visitors to do on Saturday - the Lego booth should have stuck around for local people who came down.

At the Georgia Dome, there was more than 1 set of doors to enter the building - routing everyone thru the same set of doors every day and for the concert was a mess. I know that this event lacked some volunteers, perhaps this is the reason other doors were not open?

I can't wait for next year though.

DeAnna
FEED THE FISH!

Pjohn1959

01-05-2011, 17:51

Refresh

01-05-2011, 17:52

The Good:
St. Louis:Wonderful Venue. The Commute across the field wasn't that bad and didn't take much time to get from one place to another.
The Concert:Really enjoyed the Black Eyed Peas.
CARD matches:With me being a College student, I've really missed participating in this year's game. This just might be a cool challenge to participate
The Lego station: The whole station was great. From the structures of the Arch and Boba Fett to the Lego Chess board really made the place enjoyable.

the Bad:
The Concert: Our team got to be all the way up in the nosebleed seats and we weren't able to see any of the video's or the special effects that were displayed on the back screen. If they had put it on the front screen that was down between acts, people at the top would probably have had a chance to see the videos.
Pit seating:The fields in the pit were fine really, the only thing that needs to change is more seating. The stands were packed with people and even the steps had people with it. Apart from that, I didn't really have a problem with the stands being in the pits.

lpickett

01-05-2011, 19:21

I have only been to Atlanta once, so I do not have a lot to judge this by. That being said, there are definately pros and cons. Pros: short distance from pits to dome for robot traffic. Parking was close and not too bad on cost. The bleachers were not big enough. Missouri/Illinois teams had large groups since it was such a short trip for us. I was disappointed in the cleanliness of the center and dome. When we arrived Saturday morning, there was still trash-filled containers outside the dome. This did not present a good look for Missouri or St. Louis. There were not enought trash containers in the pit areas for the number of people. The robot crossing route was right by the bathrooms. Needed to be better monitored and maybe routed away from bathrooms and water fountains. Food venues closed earlier than pits. Not handicap friendly for movement from pits to dome, especially if you are on the other side of the dome. It took me two days to figure out how to get my husband from one place to another easily with his oxygen tank.

pbawesome

01-05-2011, 19:37

wow, this was my first year at the championships. That was so much fun. It was unbelievable having so many famous people helping first. Will Smith, Willow Smith, Morgan Freeman!, black eyed peas, jack black, will.i.am. that was awesome!

I wish we could've seen the teams at full force in the finals, I think it was just a very crazy season and the robots just couldn't take it anymore.

I never got a chance to talk to 177, so if you guys see this, congratulations on your second place! 1100 was cheering for you the whole time.

Koko Ed

01-05-2011, 19:40

Jaxom

01-05-2011, 20:27

I dont know how other people felt about it, but I enjoyed the fields in the pits. I was in Curie division and so I was in the pits for two days. It was a much shorter commute to get to and from the field and I was able to get to my scouts quicker for information on the teams we would be playing. I think that it was better than many people thought it would be.

I agree that the shorter commute to the pit fields was nice. However, I think the negatives overweigh the positive. The bleachers were terrible:
* The leg room MAY have been appropriate for a 6th grade class; it was painful for me & I'm not that tall. Actually, I thought the legroom in the dome was also bad as compared to other stadiums, but it was better than those bleachers.
* No backs to the bleachers. Seats in the dome had backs....
* At least in the Curie bleachers there weren't enough aisles, making getting to the middle seats difficult and somewhat dangerous. Someone ran some caution tape up the middle of our section on Saturday; that helped the difficulty part but was possibly even more dangerous.
* People walking by & standing at the edges of the fields blocked the view of the lowest levels of seats. This is a seating fault; we should expect people to be walking by & standing on the field during matches.

I almost would have rather been in the pits all three days (assuming adequate seating) instead of being tempted with Friday in the dome & then being thrown back to the pits for Saturday. But I would have rather had all teams be given the opportunity to have had all of their matches in a true Championship venue.

Overall I think it was a good event. I think the issues (and yes, there were more, as are being pointed out all over the place) are correctable, and next year the St. Louis folks will be putting on an even better event.

Koko Ed

01-05-2011, 20:43

I admit I was skeptical when FIRST said they were taking their act to St. Louis. I was wondering why a taser wasn't included in the Kit of Parts but St. Louis wasn't so bad once I got there. The event itself was really trying hard to impress (sometimes too hard) and the volunteers were treated really well (though there was a moment when they nearly made a huge mistake). The pits were a bit tight with everything going on and I wish I could have seen some of the Arial Robotics competition. It seemed pretty cool.
The pit fields weren't so bad from a volunteer perspective but the stands needed to be MUCH larger and FIRST saying it's up too the audiance to make a hole for people after kicking them into the pits. That's very Delta of them (to blame the customer for having the nerve to be being inconvienced). They should fall over themselves to make sure there is enough room for everyone and then some.
The celeb sightings were interesting and all if a bit inconvient (it was much worse at Midwest when Dean showed up and a whole wave of kids just poured over the walls down onto the field to approach him. I was livid! Not only was it dangerous but they were clogging the back of the que area and we were still running matches).
The concert (I think of it as more of a glorified FIRST pep rally) was pretty cool though I found Will.i.am's assertion that he wanted to make FIRST loud quite amusing. I think a good amount of adults find FIRST is quite loud enough already thank you.
And the lack of music during Einstien was just creepy. It was like being at a funeral.

Karibou

01-05-2011, 20:46

As usual, the speeches/presentations during the finals were too many and too long. I had three family members who were completely unfamiliar with FIRST come for the entire day Saturday. One of them actually fell asleep DURING THE FINALS because of the speeches, only to wake somewhat disoriented for the next game.

If the speeches had been more spread out, I would have enjoyed them more. Alternating between speech and award would have been far better than doing all of the awards at the end. There were three or four long speeches in a row at one point, and I was on the verge of falling asleep. I do appreciate what the speakers had to say, but I was tired after four long days and didn't have the attention span for what was probably 20 minutes of speeches aside from Dean's, and I would have appreciated it if they were broken up by matches or awards.

i do however find it funny that so many of the students were watching the teleprompter that they had a staff member hold a sign in front of it. also there seemed to be a lack of energy in the finals crowd (late night...). i remember the massive waves on all the decks last year, the crowd beach balls, all of which were fun. especially when we got into doing more than one wave per level and people used their physics knowlege to go really high up when they met and both sides of this continued the respective waves. oh well :rolleyes: i guess this is where i miss the georgia dome.

I think that the reason for the sign on the teleprompter was to let the performers/speakers know when to speak and when to not. My one peeve about the teleprompter was that it let those on the floor see who had won the awards before the speaker got to it (I personally turned away from it and looked at the speaker for Chairman's), even though we all had it figured out halfway through. If something like this were to happen again in the future, I think that it would be more appropriate to have the whole award speech be read from a piece of paper to keep the element of surprise there.

-Pit fields: Executed way better than I had anticipated, though still some things that could be fixed. Overall noise level was not a problem. However, there were times when the pit announcer drowned out the field announcer/MC, and vice versa. Traffic flow seemed very good, but the staging area for the red alliance made it hard for volunteers to get back to the drink table and to the area where we stored extra and popped tubes. I think that the issues with the stands have been vocalized enough, so I won't add any further comments.

-St. Louis: Holy cow, this city did a lot. There were signs everywhere. The team I traveled down with stopped at Union Station for dinner and putt-putt golf, and we were surprised to find signs in the station museum and FIRST bookmarks in the golf place. There were a lot of close hotels; I saw a lot of teams walking. Great job, St. Louis.

-Venue: It would have been GREAT to have "you are here" stickers on the maps, or a significantly higher amount of FIRST greeters (the venue greeters were good, but only if you knew exactly where you wanted to go). I spent at least half an hour wandering around because I didn't know how to get into the dome. The entrance by the volunteer check-in was not open until the end of that half an hour, and it wasn't clear that there was an entrance from the pits. I asked a greeter, who directed me to do xyz and then talk to another greeter down there. A few times, I was unable to find another blue-vested individual, or the one that was there was already swamped with people waiting.
Also, I never attended a CMP in Atlanta, but I've heard that getting to the pits from the fields was a trek. Here, I was able to do a complete circuit of the venue (from the dome through the pits and back through the hallways to the dome) in 10 minutes, with traffic.

-Concert: I thought that it was great. I had a floor ticket because of a connection with another team who was able to give me one, and I found it enjoyable. Some of my friends in the nosebleeds didn't enjoy it as much. The stands in the lower levels on that curtained-off part of the dome were not used end-to-end, if I remember correctly. There was still no way to avoid seating some in the nosebleeds, though. I'm excited to see the program on TV

--Crowd surfers: Yes, that was bad. Really bad. I saw a mentor standing next to me get a foot to the back of his head, and had to drag my friend out of the way to avoid her getting crushed by people who were trying to support the body overhead. They also all seemed to be in the same area, and I saw one or two traffic jams between surfers. This isn't FIRST's fault at all, and I don't know how it could have been avoided (it's a personal discipline issue).

-Volunteer food: I'm a vegetarian. I was starving. 2 out of the 3 entrees always had meat in them, and that third one was usually something very small or not even enough to constitute as an entree. I was wary about taking more than my share of cornbread, or biscuits, or dessert, because I knew that those ran out frequently, so I took extra half the time and sucked it up for the rest. I also feel bad for any volunteer that was a vegan, because they probably couldn't eat much of anything (I felt that too, since I don't like eggs at all and couldn't eat those for breakfast).

-BrendanB, I ended up being the recipient of the paper plane that you threw during the finals matches. I texted the number, but never got a response. I probably didn't type it into my phone right. Just thought you'd like to know in case you didn't get the text or can't :P

Jaxom

01-05-2011, 21:13

-Volunteer food: I'm a vegetarian. I was starving. 2 out of the 3 entrees always had meat in them, and that third one was usually something very small or not even enough to constitute as an entree. I was wary about taking more than my share of cornbread, or biscuits, or dessert, because I knew that those ran out frequently, so I took extra half the time and sucked it up for the rest. I also feel bad for any volunteer that was a vegan, because they probably couldn't eat much of anything (I felt that too, since I don't like eggs at all and couldn't eat those for breakfast).

While I thought the food was pretty good, I have to agree with you; the choices weren't broad enough. I eat meat, but I've got to watch my fat intake, among other things. So even without the meat, there was the cheese; even harder to remove. There were nowhere near enough vegetables & salads, although the fruit at breakfast was OK. We actually got somewhat more healthy food at the St. Louis regional; a LOT fewer volunteers to feed there, of course.

At least we were somewhat compatible; I almost never eat desserts. :)

Tristan Lall

01-05-2011, 21:28

BrendanB

01-05-2011, 21:30

-BrendanB, I ended up being the recipient of the paper plane that you threw during the finals matches. I texted the number, but never got a response. I probably didn't type it into my phone right. Just thought you'd like to know in case you didn't get the text or can't :P

If ANYONE got one of those it wasn't from me! Some of our students were suprised by how many people I knew so they started writing my name on paper planes and sending them out so I have no idea how many there are in the dome with my name on them! I do not know what phone number was sent out! :rolleyes:

The good:
Short pit walk.
Pits fields weren't too bad.
It was nice being within walking distance
There were a several great places for food within walking distance but the lack at the dome wasn't so good.

The bad:
Load in. This seemed very poor and maybe next year they can allow some teams who arrive earlier have a coach pre check in with the bands. FTC leaving at the same time we were enetering was very bad and was a traffic nightmare. We didn't get into our pit until 6ish.

Pit stands were far from sufficient.

The pits I found were very unsafe especially in the rookie rows. We had teams minibot poles in the aisles, tables, robots getting tested in the aisles, large groups of people who didn't move when you asked them to move they just starred at you, some teams took up half the row to work on a part, and it was just a nightmare trying to get through because they just wouldn't listen and some safety people walked right by most if not all of the occurrences.

No music on Einstein was really sad, the energy was just gone from the dome and you'd never expect we were in the finals.

I personally thought the Einstein background was rather cheesy and FIRST could have done a lot better especially with some of the multi colors and funky designs put up. It also doesn't do their sponsors justice since you can't read most of the logos they put up.

I was told by several quers on Thursday morning that we only had two matches PERIOD no matter if we were fully inspected or not and one man made us get out of the fast lane.

I'm still iffy on the concert, it was fun but I felt it ruined the event by announcing chairmans and it was still that giant curtain throughout the entire weekend.

I did find it sad when more people cheered for Jack Black and Morgan Freeman than Dean Kamen, the Dean's list, or the Chairmans award.

I loved how to stay on time we had to carry live robots onto the field! :p

I wish they could outlaw wheeled vehicles in the pits. Segways are one thing but several kids were on scooters or long boards.

JaneYoung

01-05-2011, 21:43

This isn't FIRST's fault at all, and I don't know how it could have been avoided (it's a personal discipline issue).

Really? It's not FIRST's fault? When the door to opportunity is opened, those who open that door should have precautionary measures set in place to help protect their clients and their volunteers.

Jane

cpeister

01-05-2011, 21:49

One additional observation: unless I wasn't paying enough attention, they basically ignored the plight of 781 during the Einstein finals. I hypothesize that this was a personal decision on the announcer's part to avoid a potentially embarrassing situation: one robot wasn't moving during the two most critical matches of the world championship, and perhaps he felt the less said of it the better.

(Incidentally, has anyone got the backstory about 781's robot? What was wrong with it, and what prompted them not to call for the backup?)

After the first failure of our bot, the drive team tethered it up and tested it, and everything seemed to be working fine. From what I understand, they fully expected the robot to be functioning in the next match, and therefore did not call in a backup bot.

Evidently, our problems were not solved and we experienced a near identical failure in the next match.

On the way home last night we believed that the digital sidecar had failed. This could have been the result of 4 events worth of wear and tear, as well as playing our first defense of the season, with some heavy hits.

Then, biancs15 from Team 610 brought this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1057789&postcount=13) to our attention today, regarding the banebots motor on our arm.

At this point we don't know the cause of our problems, but we will be looking into it in the coming days.

Although what happened was disappointing, we are still very excited to have gone as far as we did. 2016 and 177, sorry we couldn't perform for you guys in the end.

Debbie

01-05-2011, 22:16

-I think the number is 52? 52 teams compete for the chairmans award at the world championship? (or 50, 51, correct me please). I don't know how many of those teams knew about this rumor, if any. My team knew just solely because a ref of a team friend, and warned us to go. I heard a few other teams heard about it, and I also heard a lot of people did not hear about it. FIRST threw a concert so students could enjoy their time at the championship, but announcing to 51 other teams that they lost an award in the middle of a concert seemed kind of harsh to me.

- I can tell you that JUDGES came to our pit and told us that they were announcing Chairman's at the concert! I am not sure if they went to all pits, or just Chairman's candidates, but they did try to inform that it was happening. It did modify some of our parent's plans, but on the other hand, it was pretty neat to be a part of it and pretty special for the team that won, to have it broadcast on the television special (at least I am assuming so).

As for the event as a whole, I would say it was great! There were only 2 major issues I had...

1- being the pit fields... and the fact that people saved seats so that if you didn't save seats, you didn't get to watch your team play...despite repeated announcements from pit admin about not saving seats and letting others watch matches. I was able to sit and watch 2 of the 4 matches we played in the pit field. My team did not get to sit together for any of the 4 matches. THAT was majorly disappointing to me!!!!!! I also like having the fields close, but didn't like that it loses the feeling of "worlds" in the pit instead of being on the dome floor.. feels more like a regular regional...

and 2 -

the pre-ordered food was dangerous... Finding MOLD in 10 of my team's turkey wraps was highly unsettling.. the fact that after we returned our wraps they continued passing them out was highly disturbing to me... To pay TEN DOLLARS a meal for that meal which at best contained brown lettuce and hard cheese, and at worst.. mold.. was unacceptable... 2 of my team members got sick and I have to question if it came from the food. Most of my team did not eat the meals after the mold instance, which sadly was noticed on Saturday and not Thursday! The Finale party food was sitting in unrefrigerated crates for how long? Dangerous.. and I won't be ordering food there again, unless a new caterer is brought in.. missed the food spread at the finale party in Atlanta and the fireworks!!!!!

But.. on the good side... I liked the pit layout.. liked having all programs close.. liked having the scholarship row expanded and in there with us... liked the displays that were brought in and all of the "real life" robots that were displayed from the Air Force, and others, liked our hotel, the advertising around the city (even bookmarks in union station), liked the closer walk to the arena(though missed the outside walk and sunshine), liked the HOF teams being close by us and I could go on ...

I really appreciate all that has been done for us and it was another great FIRST experience! We met some new friends, said hi to some old friends, learned a lot and are already looking forward to next year!

Thanks to everyone for making it such a great program!

Karibou

01-05-2011, 22:17

Really? It's not FIRST's fault? When the door to opportunity is opened, those who open that door should have precautionary measures set in place to help protect their clients and their volunteers.

Jane

What I meant was that there was no real way to control it. I'm sure that FIRST could have explicitly said "no crowd surfing," but they did not, and even if they had, I'm sure that it still would have happened.

However, they did make several pit announcements saying that we would not be allowed to take pictures of the event, and that was not enforced in the slightest.

If ANYONE got one of those it wasn't from me! Some of our students were suprised by how many people I knew so they started writing my name on paper planes and sending them out so I have no idea how many there are in the dome with my name on them! I do not know what phone number was sent out!

Awwww XD I still think that it's pretty funny that at least one made it to someone who was actually on CD, though...

JaneYoung

01-05-2011, 22:29

FirstFan2011

01-05-2011, 22:30

cpeister

01-05-2011, 22:43

The t-shirt stand was a total failure. Way too many logo choices, way too many options on type and color of clothing, nothing preprinted, order taking process way too slow, numerous orders late and messed up. Need I go on?
People were p*ssed off!!!!!!!!!

I was quite surprised at the sheer number of choices available. This I have no problem with, although it made decision making harder.

The lack of preprinted shirts did surprise me, but it didn't bother me either.

I can speak to the messed up orders though. I ordered a Tshirt and a sweater. When I went to pick up my order, the Tshirt was missing and the sweater had the wrong logo. No big deal for me, but I am glad that I checked. I returned a couple of hours later to get my updated order and tye tshirt was present but the sweatshirt had the same wrong logo again. I checked my order form against the codes on the display i wanted and they were identical. The lady at the pickup counter was great about it though. She grabbed one of the logo loc guys and I went over and showed them what it was I wanted. They asked me to wait 5 minutes and then it was ready.

All in all, I found stuff overpriced, but the employees were helpful which greatly enhanced the experience.

Shof

01-05-2011, 22:56

Im a bit surprised that the first store did not have that much items that had St Louis, Mo on it except for a few tshirts. I remember a couple years at the Atlanta first store they had key chains and other things on that had the date Atlanta on it and the dome name on it. Was a bit disappointed with that, since i wanted something that had St Louis on it

Debbie

01-05-2011, 22:56

The t-shirt stand was a total failure. Way too many logo choices, way too many options on type and color of clothing, nothing preprinted, order taking process way too slow, numerous orders late and messed up. Need I go on?
People were p*ssed off!!!!!!!!!

I really love how we can pick from so many choices! It allows for many different tastes and we aren't all walking around with the same t-shirt! What I think they lack is enough workers. I tell my team to shop on Thursday or early Friday because it gets crazy there toward the end. They offer great quality with many choices and I really like having them there... just wish they had more help! :)

Also, they do make mistakes, but they always fix them for you!

Blackphantom91

01-05-2011, 22:57

My thoughts

The Good

The pits- They where Pretty cool to walk around this year for some reason.
Teams- This year It seemed like teams all over steeped their game up and made the compositions all over the event harder thus even better to enjoy.( would love to see it continue) Congrats to everyone and winners on Einstein.
Concert- I went into this concerto thinking it was going to be a sham and overrated I was wrong it was extreme fun and I thought it was cool to make it a celebration about the teams. It also helped That some members of the thunderchickens were making me laugh every two seconds. I believe that he wants to help first now im generally convinced.
Competition overall Fantastic Its a wonderful experience and I loved it this year.

Alright now its time for the bad.
The bad

The setup- It would have been better if they explained way earlier than what they did by the time I saw it It wasn't bad until we played in the dome then I got lost and was confused on my way back to the pits. (not fun) I liked the pits close to the competition.
the weather]- Flooding and rain bad combo.
Lack of Music on Einstein Nuff said!

I really loved championships this year it was fun, Next year I hope is even better Great days of competition great robots and teams on Einstein and in the divisions. Left with a smile and met new people great time! Shout outs to everyone!:)

DonRotolo

01-05-2011, 22:58

See my comments in the "2011 lessons learned" threads.

BrendanB

01-05-2011, 23:02

What I meant was that there was no real way to control it. I'm sure that FIRST could have explicitly said "no crowd surfing," but they did not, and even if they had, I'm sure that it still would have happened.

However, they did make several pit announcements saying that we would not be allowed to take pictures of the event, and that was not enforced in the slightest.

This is just one of the sad facts that even though you try to enforce something, make announcments things still happen.

To kinda go along with that I was very disappointed and yet laughed so hard when they announced that teams needed to be considerate in the pit stands so everyone could see! :yikes:

Wait, they didn't think that would be a problem?!?!!?

The t-shirt stand was a total failure. Way too many logo choices, way too many options on type and color of clothing, nothing preprinted, order taking process way too slow, numerous orders late and messed up. Need I go on?
People were p*ssed off!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I do think that there were too many choices and what made it worse was that there were only two people taking orders and there should have been a line to take orders. I was waiting 30 minutes to make an order before giving up due to how many people would just cut me off when I finally went to order. I'm not the person to get into a fighting match with things like that but it was very annoying especially for someone who works in managing retail!

I will echo that the finale lunch was very poorly planned! It was warm, tasted, "10 minutes shy of going bad", and getting the sandwiches and then getting out was a nightmare! I think what hurts the STL venue is even though there is a number of hotels nearby there isn't the space that Atlanta has with the foyer outside the pits that was great for HOF and the green between buildings.

I was very sad that HOF was such a hike away from it all and not a center of attention!

Katie_UPS

01-05-2011, 23:05

All I can say, and I'm going to say this briefly;
The concert was fun. I was a foot-dragger (I was dead tired* and sore all over**) and still liked it. I was glad at the intention of it. And having Curie be ten yards away from my pit was incredibly convenient and made more things possible.

I still wasn't happy with it.

It wasn't the execution or the logistics, but the message it sent: that its okay to "cheapen" a team's championship experience for an entertainer. I mean, when a good chunk of your dome is lost to a performer and you're telling kids that STEM is the important... I'm sure I'm just reading into this too much, but its still doesn't sit well with me. It goes against what Dean says... or what I interpret from his speeches...

Clayton Yocom

01-05-2011, 23:06

I personally had a great time as St. Louis even though our team had problems with penalties for several reasons, we all had fun. We had a lot of fun at the talent show giving Andy Baker a standing ovation because of his excellent MC'ing, and I was told that several members of our team had even more fun stalking him after the talent show :eek: This was my first year at a championship, and, as I was in the pit almost the entire time, it was different than that of the rest of the team.

Pros -
-Dome fields were easy to view
-Walk from Pits to Dome (to watch games) was quick
-The Dome is near quite a few hotels, and eateries, so walking to and from the dome was completely viable.
-The Concert was a lot of fun
-The walk to and from the pit fields our pit was convenient
-Paper airplanes.
-Paper airplanes with names and phone numbers.
-The talent show
-The "First Conversation" show, I was the second guy of the "guys in the blue shirts" to talk, it was very interesting as a "do'er" to hear what Amir said about getting the bureaucrats to agree with doing more mentor based education in public schools. For those who weren't there, the answer to the question, "How did you get the bureaucrats...to agree," was, (paraphrased) See, That's the interesting part...I didn't...I did it, then basically challenged them to tell me that what I was doing wasn't the answer to the problem at hand, and my school has now embraced FIRST into the culture as much as, if not more than, any other sport.

Cons-
-Pit fields. Everything about them other than the walk there as someone who knew where they were going was bad, in my opinion. Trying to get family who didn't know/understand the pit rules into the pits and to the fields was atrocious. The seating was horrid, we only had our scouts in the stands during our matches, unless teams were gracious enough to harbor us for 5-6 minutes (thanks to the team from mexico that let me and a few of our pit crew sit with them during some of the qualification matches).
-Hard to find standing screens
-Lack of room in pit isles
-The walk from the pits to the dome was impossible to explain unless you had someone show you the route (or you took the elevator)
-Load-in. The lady who was in charge of the gate we were at was misinformed or something, as she kept telling all the teams that they could only bring in what they could carry, (aka, no rolling tables, carts, etc. etc.) and even after we were given our wrist bands we were told that we had to go through the small entrance carrying what we could, so that the lady could count us off her list. After about 30-45 minutes all of this was sorted out, and the lady in charge was very nice in-the end, but some of the handling of the event was quite unprofessional. Also, finding an inch or two of water in our electrical crate was very concerning.
-ROBOT! - I'm a supporter of people yelling robot ONCE if there is a large group of people in front of you and you are behind on queing, I am not okay with you yelling robot every 10 seconds when there is an obvious clear lane in front of you.
-Even though I think it is awesome that we are getting the word of FIRST out there, I think the Concert was a disappointment due to the lack of seating in reasonable places (section 405 was like watching a bunch of ants move around on the floor) and some of our team felt like the show was more for TV than it was for us.
-Chairman's Award at the Concert - I feel I am obliged to agree with everyone else on this, and restate their claims, this was a serious oversight to the people who were planning this.
-The volume of the pit announcer was way too loud. You could not yell over the PA unless you were yelling into the person's ear next to you.
-Crates. Trying to get our crate at the end of the day was way to hard. Trying to get them to take the crate away was way to hard. (actually didn't happen until after we left Wednesday night, and some pit lanes were completely blocked off by so many robot crates
-Pit layout. Unless you looked at the image before-hand, it was really hard to determine if some of the teams in Galileo were in Galileo or in Archimedes. The Curie/Archimedes inspection tables were very confusing at first as well. The stickers on the floor needed to be much more visible for people with robot carts, or just people in general to see.

These were just what I could come up with at 10:30pm at night, I felt like I had a good time. The cons really do detract from the experience though, and the pit fields were almost as bad as I had thought. Hopefully they can see some of the feedback on CD and improve next year.
PS- Sorry for the wall-of-text :/

Peyton Yeung

01-05-2011, 23:24

Clayton we have school tomorrow so nighty-night.
For the most part I agree. One of my biggest disappointments was that the lanes between pits were tiny...in some cases a robot could just fit. Most of this was due to too many spectators in the pit but overall many of the lanes were too small. If they have a similar concert to next year then they should get a better seating arrangement or make sure the lights aren't constantly shining in the eyes of us in the nose-bleeds.

I seem to prefer Atlanta over St. Louis but for their FIRST time with this (pun intended) it wasn't bad.

Novi Hopper

01-05-2011, 23:34

I can tell you that JUDGES came to our pit and told us that they were announcing Chairman's at the concert! I am not sure if they went to all pits, or just Chairman's candidates, but they did try to inform that it was happening. It did modify some of our parent's plans, but on the other hand, it was pretty neat to be a part of it and pretty special for the team that won, to have it broadcast on the television special (at least I am assuming so).

Thinking back, there were three off-duty judges that came to our pit that wanted to see us, but we had to deal with a medical issue that came up with one of our mentors and we apologized to them that we couldn't talk at the moment. However, if they were there to tell us about the concert and wish us good luck, that was still pretty late in the day- roughly at 5 or 6. Also, when I had talked to some of the students on 359 after we saw the three judges, they were not aware of the rumored announcement themselves. Our FLL team who was in the running for the Champion's Award was not informed either.

All in all, I think the concert announcement was pretty disheartening. If only Chairman's-eligible teams were the ones informed, then I would have to shake my head at FIRST for thinking that the award and the newly-crowned team should only be celebrated by a chosen few teams and the ones that just wanted to attend the concert. The event, though it will probably look nice on the ABC broadcast, seemed to devalue the Hawaiian Kid's, the FTC team's, and the FLL team's (I sadly can't remember their names) efforts by only giving them a few short sentences before quickly shoving them offstage to give the Black Eyed Peas room. You can make FIRST as loud as you want, but there's a point where you're going to get deaf to the message.

With that being said, I want to congratulate 359 and the FTC and FLL teams on three very well-deserved awards. What you guys have done for FIRST have been astounding and in the case of the Hawaiian Kids it was my pleasure to hear your story when I visited your pit on Friday.

pathew100

01-05-2011, 23:41

The bad:
...The pits I found were very unsafe especially in the rookie rows. We had teams minibot poles in the aisles, tables, robots getting tested in the aisles, large groups of people who didn't move when you asked them to move they just starred at you, some teams took up half the row to work on a part, and it was just a nightmare trying to get through because they just wouldn't listen and some safety people walked right by most if not all of the occurrences.

I was a volunteer (robot inspector) and I agree completely. FIRST really needs to have a comprehensive safety plan for the event, and someone whose job it is to ensure that plan is implemented (right now it seems this is on the shoulders of the volunteer coordinators who have other jobs to do)

The amount of students RUNNING through the pits was staggering.

Also, pushing the robot carts too fast shouting "ROBOT!" as if that's going to move the crowd.

Sandals/Flip Flops were more an issue with visitors/parents but if rules are rules, then they need a way to enforce this in the pits.

Simply having a handful of volunteers at the entrances handing out safety glasses and trying to stop the improper shoes is not an effective safety plan.

Also, many of the worst offenders of 'bad' safety weren't the teams but the Black Eyed Peas crew, the FIRST production company, building facilities, Suppliers, etc... They simply weren't informed of the rules of the pit or ignored them.

How many people saw the motorized carts driving through the pits without beeping their horns? I personally had forklift cut right in front of me across the hallway from America's Center to the Dome. He never beeped the horn, just cut across the pedestrian path... This was by far the worst event I've been to from a safety perspective.

MrForbes

01-05-2011, 23:52

Please tell us what you thought about the Championship event this year, the First year in St Louis.

I liked it, and had fun! I got to talk to lots of neat people, spend 4 days with a HOF team (842 Falcons), watch lots of very competitive matches, spend some time in a huge stadium, see a special just-for-us concert, spend 4 days hanging out with my son, and get a lot of exercise.

See you next year!

BrendanB

01-05-2011, 23:55

I was a volunteer (robot inspector) and I agree completely. FIRST really needs to have a comprehensive safety plan for the event, and someone whose job it is to ensure that plan is implemented (right now it seems this is on the shoulders of the volunteer coordinators who have other jobs to do)

The amount of students RUNNING through the pits was staggering.

Also, pushing the robot carts too fast shouting "ROBOT!" as if that's going to move the crowd.

Sandals/Flip Flops were more an issue with visitors/parents but if rules are rules, then they need a way to enforce this in the pits.

Simply having a handful of volunteers at the entrances handing out safety glasses and trying to stop the improper shoes is not an effective safety plan.

Also, many of the worst offenders of 'bad' safety weren't the teams but the Black Eyed Peas crew, the FIRST production company, building facilities, Suppliers, etc... They simply weren't informed of the rules of the pit or ignored them.

How many people saw the motorized carts driving through the pits without beeping their horns? I personally had forklift cut right in front of me across the hallway from America's Center to the Dome. He never beeped the horn, just cut across the pedestrian path... This was by far the worst event I've been to from a safety perspective.

Agreed, agreed, AGREED!

We had an issue this weekend where our team was late for a match due to a robot issue I had to grab a tetrix battery and didn't get out of our row before a large group from a team came to the pit next to us to give an award that shut down the row for a few minutes.

I wish that FIRST would come up with a role of 1-3 individuals for each field/regional that would roam the pits occasionally to check that everyones stuff is in their pits and break up the "lets have the entire team stand outside our pit" parties.

The pits are becoming more an more unsafe! The teams testing their robots in the rows really, really set me off but it wasn't impressed at all with many safety people this weekend with what I saw them walk by.

Karibou

02-05-2011, 00:29

I wish that FIRST would come up with a role of 1-3 individuals for each field/regional that would roam the pits occasionally to check that everyones stuff is in their pits and break up the "lets have the entire team stand outside our pit" parties.

Sadly, that's the role that I would expect the student safety captains to play, but their responsibilities is an entirely different matter. Given that this isn't an ideal world, I wouldn't be disappointed if that became a prominent volunteer role (I say "prominent" because wearing a nice polo, like a VC or judge, seems to give the impression of a lot more authority than a white volunteer shirt. A lot of people don't respect the white shirts).

rwood359

02-05-2011, 01:49

-Some teams will not be attending the concert for various reasons. I know of a few teams personally who had scouting meetings or just didn’t want to go. Thankfully I am positive that all of 359 was there to accept the award, otherwise I would have been even more disappointed if they decided to reveal the winner at the concert and the team they choose being nowhere in sight.

We were all present. Sadly one mentor who was unable to stand in the mosh pit for an hour did not get to go on stage to receive the award.

-Besides all the discomfort this may have brought to a few teams, I was also unsure of the benefits this brought to the winning chairmans team. If I recall, no video was ever played, and as I anxiously waited to see excited students raise up that large clock in pure happiness, I never did. The clock was never officially handed to 359. Not to mention, I still am in love with the past's tradition of announcing the award during the finals, with ALL eyes on you. It has always seemed so magical, and everyone could just feel all the hardwork a team as done. Watching 341 stand up and start hugging each other while the crowd went wild was.. amazing to me. I REALLY hope 359 enjoyed themselves and had an amazing time at the concert, but I would not recommend FIRST does that again.

Our Chairman's video was not played at either event.

Enjoyed is a relative term. Four of us are 60+ and music that makes your insides shake doesn't qualify for enjoyed. Being with the team waiting for the announcement and hearing our team called was far beyond enjoyed.

santosh

02-05-2011, 02:07

although i have a laundry list of things that I along with many other believe should be changed my real quick thoughts are:
concert on einstein to resume previous pit conformation
there is no green space for kids to screw around on
and dear god put up some signs on where to go for pits and stands (or lack thereof).

Flalex72

02-05-2011, 02:25

the concert had one problem that i thought i never would have seen as happening... crowd surfing started and PEOPLE WERE INJURED. from what I saw, a member of 1305 was crushed by one of these surfers. this was sickening to me because an innocent person was injured due to a concert that they went to that was designed to be a reward to their efforts. i don't know what else to say about this, maybe a no crowd surfing rule? people need to be considerate of those around them? i don't know how to fix it, but i have never heard any good stories about what happens when someone finishes their crowd "surf"...

Pleased to report that although shaken, the 1305 team member was not injured in this incident, aside from a bit of a fall to the floor. Doesn't make this incident any less of an issue though.

Koko Ed

02-05-2011, 02:33

I was quite surprised at the sheer number of choices available. This I have no problem with, although it made decision making harder.

The lack of preprinted shirts did surprise me, but it didn't bother me either.

I can speak to the messed up orders though. I ordered a Tshirt and a sweater. When I went to pick up my order, the Tshirt was missing and the sweater had the wrong logo. No big deal for me, but I am glad that I checked. I returned a couple of hours later to get my updated order and tye tshirt was present but the sweatshirt had the same wrong logo again. I checked my order form against the codes on the display i wanted and they were identical. The lady at the pickup counter was great about it though. She grabbed one of the logo loc guys and I went over and showed them what it was I wanted. They asked me to wait 5 minutes and then it was ready.

All in all, I found stuff overpriced, but the employees were helpful which greatly enhanced the experience.

I was uninterested in paying $30 for a t-shirt.
What do they think this is the NFL?:rolleyes:

d.courtney

02-05-2011, 03:10

After the first failure of our bot, the drive team tethered it up and tested it, and everything seemed to be working fine. From what I understand, they fully expected the robot to be functioning in the next match, and therefore did not call in a backup bot.

Evidently, our problems were not solved and we experienced a near identical failure in the next match.

On the way home last night we believed that the digital sidecar had failed. This could have been the result of 4 events worth of wear and tear, as well as playing our first defense of the season, with some heavy hits.

Then, biancs15 from Team 610 brought this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1057789&postcount=13) to our attention today, regarding the banebots motor on our arm.

At this point we don't know the cause of our problems, but we will be looking into it in the coming days.

Although what happened was disappointing, we are still very excited to have gone as far as we did. 2016 and 177, sorry we couldn't perform for you guys in the end.

Cale,

I had a chance to watch most of your qualifying and elimination round matches, and if I am not mistaken the very same incident happened once on Archimedes. It was 781's last match on Thursday, match 57. Team 781 was immobile after slightly moving in autonomous and then unable to move throughout the match resulting in a score of 78-7. The peculiar thing about it all was that you were in Blue 3 that match, like the two finals matches. I wonder if there was something about being at the Blue 3 station that caused a communication issue for your robot, whether it was a hardware/software problem on your end or theirs... It seems weird that tethered wouldn't be a problem, if it was in fact the banebots motor. You only played on Blue 3 5 times, 3 of which resulted in a robot that couldn't move. Now it could just be a coincidence. Does anyone with detailed scouting reports have anything suggesting that it happened to other teams, specifically playing on Blue 3? (Likely an isolated or unrelated problem though). Anywho it would be nice to find out what happened. As amazing as watching your journey was to the finals I felt like 111, 254, 973's alliance would have been victorious regardless, but that is something which can only be speculated. What I personally would love to see is the finalists and champions play another couple matches just for fun at an invitational, like IRI. Obviously it wouldn't be the same as changes may be made to robots between now and then and maybe new drivers etc, but it would be fun!

David

Hawiian Cadder

02-05-2011, 03:39

i personally prefer the Georgia dome to saint Louis many times over. most of this has nothing to do with the actual facility, but the area itself.

cons.
there are not nearly enough lunch venues around the dome. the CNN center was excellent for this.

there is no park nearby. my team has a tradition of playing ultimate Frisbee against other teams in Olympic park. it was sorely missed this year.

the stadium part of the dome is almost too big. its is so big that nobody can get a good view of the fields. in Georgia the stands were packed. but even the nosebleeds were not so far away that you couldn't see anything.

the distance from the pit to the stands is unbelievable.

it was far to easy to get lost in saint Louis, the dome is squished in a small plot, and there are no open spaces to get ones bearings.

pro's

saint Louis is a larger venue, i believe that they might be able to open up more team slots.

lighting in the pits was much better.

there is no choke point where one 6 story escalator attempts to keep up with 500 teams coming back from lunch.

Koko Ed

02-05-2011, 03:53

the distance from the pit to the stands is unbelievable.

The walk from the pits to the floor was a couple of hundred feet where it was a quarter of a mile in Atlanta, if not more.

Cory

02-05-2011, 04:16

The walk from the pits to the floor was a couple of hundred feet where it was a quarter of a mile in Atlanta, if not more.

But how many people had floor access? maybe 1/10 of the people there? If that?

Koko Ed

02-05-2011, 07:27

But how many people had floor access? maybe 1/10 of the people there? If that?

Most people didn't have floor access in Atlanta either and I bet it was still a significantly longer walk because of the courtyard.

EricH

02-05-2011, 12:38

cons.
there are not nearly enough lunch venues around the dome. the CNN center was excellent for this.

there is no park nearby. my team has a tradition of playing ultimate Frisbee against other teams in Olympic park. it was sorely missed this year.

[...]

it was far to easy to get lost in saint Louis, the dome is squished in a small plot, and there are no open spaces to get ones bearings.

Next time you're there, do this: go out the the main entrances, and go straight away from the Dome on one of the streets. Keep your eyes open. Stop when you reach the park (should be about 10-15 minutes if you're on foot, max). Look around. You should see at least a couple places to eat. And there are others closer to the venue--you might have spotted them on the way out to the park.

What might help that for next year is for there to be a readily-available map with all the local places to eat--I know such things exist (and am mildly surprised that teams apparently didn't get them). You don't need open spaces to get oriented, just intersections.

Valkyrie133

02-05-2011, 17:40

For anyone complaining about crowd control at the concert, I'll add my 2 cents...we were going up a (moving) escalator, only to find that the crowd had pretty much stopped at the top, and the large hallway was blocked by crowd control barriers. This meant there was no place for us to go, and a solid wall of people was still coming up the escalator. Fortunately, one of our student team members had the presence of mind to press the e-stop on the escalator, which solved that problem...but it was a completely avoidable problem that should NEVER have happened at all. :eek:

Acerflamma

02-05-2011, 19:02

As a member of a rookie team at FIRST the competition itself was amazing. I had tons of fun, and the experience was nearly overwhelming. While 3588 didn't perform the best, the people, events, and sights were amazing. Everyone is so friendly! I made many new friends while I was there.

Personally everything had a good aspect to it, or my team made something good out of it. With the lack of seats we made chairs out of extra parts, we mingled with every person willing to chat, and tried to attend every event related to it, like the rookie meet up, robo prom, and the stuff happening after the closing ceremonies. I just wish I wasn't a senior. Hopefully I can start a CARD team to compete next year. Anyone have a link that has more information on CARD? Or a way to register a team?

The fields in the pits - This wouldn't have been so bad if there was more seating, or more space around the field.
Well, team 3588 built a wooden bench out of extra wood for us to sit on since we had no chairs. We did end up carrying the bench around the pit area to have other teams sign it though! Overall we got several thousand signatures, including Dean Kamen and Woody Flowers! Anyone on here sign our bench?

torihoelscher

02-05-2011, 19:09

and 2 -

the pre-ordered food was dangerous... Finding MOLD in 10 of my team's turkey wraps was highly unsettling.. the fact that after we returned our wraps they continued passing them out was highly disturbing to me... To pay TEN DOLLARS a meal for that meal which at best contained brown lettuce and hard cheese, and at worst.. mold.. was unacceptable... 2 of my team members got sick and I have to question if it came from the food. Most of my team did not eat the meals after the mold instance, which sadly was noticed on Saturday and not Thursday! The Finale party food was sitting in unrefrigerated crates for how long? Dangerous.. and I won't be ordering food there again, unless a new caterer is brought in.. missed the food spread at the finale party in Atlanta and the fireworks!!!!!

B

Oh yes. We had the same issue. I did not feel well after eating the chicken sandwich on friday and refused to eat the finale food on Saturday. FIRST, we love ya but please get better vendors!! (Loved the dome food but really expensive)

JaneYoung

02-05-2011, 19:27

Well, team 3588 built a wooden bench out of extra wood for us to sit on since we had no chairs. We did end up carrying the bench around the pit area to have other teams sign it though! Overall we got several thousand signatures, including Dean Kamen and Woody Flowers! Anyone on here sign our bench?

What a fantastic idea. Can you post a photo of your team/community bench?

Jane

1986titans

02-05-2011, 19:32

and 2 -

the pre-ordered food was dangerous... Finding MOLD in 10 of my team's turkey wraps was highly unsettling.. the fact that after we returned our wraps they continued passing them out was highly disturbing to me... To pay TEN DOLLARS a meal for that meal which at best contained brown lettuce and hard cheese, and at worst.. mold.. was unacceptable... 2 of my team members got sick and I have to question if it came from the food. Most of my team did not eat the meals after the mold instance, which sadly was noticed on Saturday and not Thursday! The Finale party food was sitting in unrefrigerated crates for how long? Dangerous.. and I won't be ordering food there again, unless a new caterer is brought in.. missed the food spread at the finale party in Atlanta and the fireworks!!!!!

Same here. I had a turkey wrap on Saturday and stopped eating it after I tasted something weird. At the time, I thought it was Mayo that wasn't on the one I had on Friday or something. I was very sick Saturday night, so this seems like a likely culprit.

BigJ

02-05-2011, 19:44

Well, team 3588 built a wooden bench out of extra wood for us to sit on since we had no chairs. We did end up carrying the bench around the pit area to have other teams sign it though! Overall we got several thousand signatures, including Dean Kamen and Woody Flowers! Anyone on here sign our bench?

Haha, we did. 1675 signed with the caption Ultimate Posterior Seat.

EDIT: Agreed with Jane, post pictures!

Jimmy the Kidd

02-05-2011, 19:55

\

the airplane throwing competition was fun to watch though. especially the crowd reaction to them making it far (to the torn down devision field area) or to the awards stage
*cough*

I'll have to take credit for starting that...
:D

torihoelscher

02-05-2011, 20:34

Same here. I had a turkey wrap on Saturday and stopped eating it after I tasted something weird. At the time, I thought it was Mayo that wasn't on the one I had on Friday or something. I was very sick Saturday night, so this seems like a likely culprit.

I had a bad feeling about the turkey. but i ate the cookie and some chips. It was weird seeing all those people eating those dangerous boxed lunches. Anyone else have any issues?

Boydean

02-05-2011, 21:01

The Good
- The venue. The walk from the pits to the dome was obviously a lot closer. I got to see the pits this year because of this! Not much more to say.

- 2 fields in dome, 2 fields in pits. Some said this was awful, some people really liked it. I really liked it. I think it mixes it up, and gives the pits a warner feel with the game announcer in the background. Not to mention that the pit fields clearly had a queuing advantage over the dome pits.

- The concert was a fantastic addition to the event. It made up for the lack of fireworks during the finale, not to mention giving out the Chairmans award during it was amazing. Could have lived with not having the Willow Smith performance though ("Where's my 21th century girls!!", sorry I had to say it).

- FIRSTies during the finale was amazing. Enjoyed every minute of it. Thanks AndyMark!

- Volunteers were spoiled, like they should be. The food was amazing (aside from the lack of vegetarian friendly food as Kara pointed out earlier, and the finale food), they were giving volunteers free massages, and a room full of bean bags for resting.

- The number of good hotels that were seconds from the dome by foot. I stayed in the Missouri Athletic Club which was 2 blocks (5 minute walk) from the dome. It was a nice hotel, great price, and they gave me free parking for the entire weekend (versus $10 a night like their site says). Not to mention they have a basketball court on the 5th floor.

The Bad
- The very clear lack of knowledge of the facility staff. Multiple times I had to ask facility staff how to get to things and they would look at me with a blank face. One staff member didn't know what I meant when I said "FIRST Robotics Competition pit area". This could be solved with a simple, short staff meeting before the event.

- The lack of directional signs throughout the venue. Several times I got absolutely lost when I thought I was following the signs.

- The lack of food around the venue was awful. I know there were places to eat, but the problem was...they were all out of food Friday. I walked into Subway, Quiznos, and Atlanta Bread; all of them some way or another were out of food. After that I called a chick-fil-a that was a bit down the road from where I was - they were just closing up because they ran out of food.

Notes
Some people complained about the safety of crowd surfing. Crowd surfing is extremely dangerous, but it is unavoidable. I've worked in events about the size as the BEP one, you can discourage it, stop it, and even throw people out for doing it, but people are still going to do it. I do wish, though, that people in FIRST would understand the dangers of it and not do it.

I wish they would have explained more of what the Chairmans team did. Either at the concert or at the award ceremony.

Lack of music on Einstein made the entire thing kinda...well, boring. Although, if it was for the documentary I can deal with that.

The speeches on Einstein were longer then usually. But FIRST really only has two times in a year to make that kind of show - the kickoff, and the championships.

Mike Marandola

02-05-2011, 21:35

Pros:
-The fields in the pit were cool so I could go see our robot fast between matches
-All of the free stuff!
-In a city with a national monument (The Arch)
-Jack Black in the i.am.first event video
-The Roboprom was cool, especially since Deadmou5 was there:D
-The comfortable seats in the dome
-The paper airplanes at the concert and Einstein
-Tons of close hotels
Cons
-uncomfortable pit field seating
-poor boxed lunch food
-pit field bleachers were a tad too small
-Hotel service was horrible (Holiday Inn Select)
-Many of the dome floors were sticky
-wearing safety glasses in the pit field bleachers while scouting was pretty annoying
-where was Morgan Freeman, I was told he walked around the pits but that's it?
-The First finale was pretty boring, we decided dinner was more fun and left after staying for about 20 minutes
-there could always be more free stuff!:D

So after attending both venues, I decided that I enjoyed Atlanta a lot more. I expected this due to the fact that this is the first year in St. Louis. I would only imagine the organizers will continue to learn from the previous year and get better.

Acerflamma

02-05-2011, 22:08

What a fantastic idea. Can you post a photo of your team/community bench?

Jane

I will get some photos up when we get the bench back from our crate. Some higher quality pictures would probably be better to put up.

Haha, we did. 1675 signed with the caption Ultimate Posterior Seat.

EDIT: Agreed with Jane, post pictures!

I remember you guys trying to get it to match UPS! I think I can remember where to find it. I'll take a picture of it and post it when we get it back.

treffk

02-05-2011, 23:48

Pros:

As a volunteer I got that food which was yummy.
I liked the seating going up higher because more people could get a centered view of the field and the concert.
The concert was a nice touch as a reward for teams
I loved the fact the venue was only a 4 hour drive from my house rather than a plane trip. STL is just more centered geographically, I did hear some east coast teams complaining about having to fly(those in Georgia) or having to pay $300 more dollars to fly to STL.
I enjoyed how many restaurants are close by with a short walk. Lacedes Landing has many restaurants that were told in advance about us coming, which gave them time to prepare themselves. Some even do call ahead seating(the old spaghetti factory for example). Most of the food in the area is reasonably priced too. I got a hamburger from Big Daddy's for $6.

Cons:

Even as a volunteer I was confused about how to get around the pits. I'd walk and find a dead end filled with crates.
Lack of safety being enforced in the pits. I saw some teams having students sit on the ground in the aisle. I was walking with other volunteers and one got ran into with a robot all because the team was being quiet. I know even on the playing fields my cousin was holding the robot waiting for their cart and got shoved by another team which ended up giving her a wicked bruise.
I was shocked by certain doors being open one day and then locked another, or vice-versa.
I enjoy having the FIRST Store there because it allows us all to purchase items without paying shipping. (Big plus for my team because we by the iron on patches on which shipping tends to get ridiculous.) I felt that there were too few people taking orders for as much business they do. At first I didn't realize that they has specific people taking orders and I went to find an order form and was told by a seeming rude person I could not fill it out myself. I understand why due to as many messed up orders happen. When I went to pick up my order I handed one of the workers the sheet. He stared at me for a minute then snapped at me "Want to help me?" I was wearing my volunteer name tag and did not realize my name was not legible on the order form.
I was not aware on how to get food for the Finale and it seemed like they were not enforcing the wristbands. When I found out where to get the food all they had left was salads and possibly sandwiches further down. I was not a fan of the doughnut glazed cookie or the vitamin water. I decided not to risk it. I ended up not eating it anyways, volunteers were given pizza instead.

I have no opinion on fields in the pits due to me not watching many matches. I was too busy showing around my boyfriend who is still somewhat unfamiliar to FIRST. Possibly look forward to a Navy booth next year, he got excited about it and called his recruiter to tell him about it. We all have to remember that this was the first year at this venue and all they can do is improve. It was a learning experience for all and we will benefit from it next year.

Cory

03-05-2011, 00:06

Pros:

Short walk to dome floor from pits, short walk to pit fields
Comfortable seats in dome
(I feel bad just putting 2, because the much higher number of cons is going to make it sound like I had a bad experience, which isn't the case)

Cons:

Awful Hall of Fame placement. I'm guessing the majority of people never saw it, as it was hidden way off in the corner by FLL/College FIRST. Maybe there was a reason, but they ought to have displaced something else to put it front and center like in Atlanta.

Terrible signage. It was very confusing at times where things were. Galileo pits were the worst. It was really confusing at first.

Terrible crowd control. We showed up very early to ensure we got the seats we wanted, either in the dome, or in the pits. The venue staff either told us to stand one place and then let other people in front of us, or left various random doors unlocked such that other teams ended up in the dome/pits well in advance of them opening.

Event staff forcing everyone to leave the pits for the opening ceremonies. We got up at 4:30 in the morning so we could get to the event early enough to get the seats we wanted. We get them and then the volunteers force us to leave for the dome and hope that when we come back someone else hasn't sat in our seats. We pay $5,000 to come to the event. If we don't want to go see the opening ceremonies we shouldn't have to.

Limited food choices in the vicinity of the pit. I may have missed something, but it seemed like you had three choices. Hot dogs, corn dogs, and traditional stadium snacks. There was that little "cafe" but they had a limited selection and I heard it was pretty bad.

Volunteers being extremely over zealous about safety glasses in the pit entrance. If all you are doing is walking to the pit fields, why do you need safety glasses? Compounded by the fact that they will not hand out safety glasses to team members (I understand the reasoning, but come on, just let people walk to the field without them).

Rude volunteers on multiple occasions. Not the fault of St Louis or FIRST even, really. There's always going to be a few.

Minor, but I'm fairly certain that the event staff mopped every single row of seats and the concourse inside the dome with soda every night. It was that sticky.

CrystalWolf

03-05-2011, 01:25

Unfortunately, I could only spend a few hours at the event and did not attend the concert, Einstein matches, or the finale, so I'm probably not as qualified as others here to make a complete list of the good and the bad. But there are a few things that haven't been mentioned yet.

Good:
- Clearing up the mess quickly at the airport or using different concourses. I wasn't there, but it was great to see that everyone actually made it here.
- The shorter distance between the pits and the stands, as already mentioned.
- Having the entire venue in one building. It keeps out the elements when walking between the pits and the stands.
- Having the St. Louis Metrolink nearby made for easier transportation.
- No bag checks at the Dome. It's nice to actually be able to carry full water bottles to the stands for once.
- Getting the word out, both through signs and ads all over the city and through celebrities and sponsors.

Bad:
- Lack of signs. I'd like to say I'm good at finding my way around unfamiliar places, but I was utterly lost initially. Wandered around until I walked into the pits, had to ask for directions to the Dome. It would be helpful to provide FIRST-related maps, not just general venue maps.
- Lack of organization in the pit area. It was hard to determine which division I was in, and everything not pit-related was pushed to the sidelines.
- Lack of large division signs or banners. In Atlanta, there were large banners that read, "Archimedes," "Newton," etc., so we knew which division we were watching. In St. Louis, these were too small to be readily noticeable. Maybe this is not a big deal for most, but it would confuse anyone new to FIRST.
- Pit fields. I understand the rationale but did not like the general idea any more because of it.
- I miss the CNN Center food court...
- The overall layout of the area was more cramped than in Atlanta. I think St. Louis is a smaller city and having the venue in the downtown area didn't help matters.
- It got very crowded in the FIRST store at times. This was just like Atlanta, but they could at least expand a little without having to add more items.
- They could enforce basic safety rules in the pits better. Safety glasses on at all times, hair ties for girls, close-toed shoes, etc.

pathew100

03-05-2011, 11:11

Cons:

Volunteers being extremely over zealous about safety glasses in the pit entrance. If all you are doing is walking to the pit fields, why do you need safety glasses? Compounded by the fact that they will not hand out safety glasses to team members (I understand the reasoning, but come on, just let people walk to the field without them).

You needed safety glasses to get to the fields because you went through the pits to get to them. Who knows when an accident is going to happen?

There needed to be a way to get to the pit fields without going through the pits. As there was not, you needed safety glasses to get there. It's easier to try to enforce the rule for everyone entering than trying to ask every individual where they are going anyway.

Safety glasses on in the pits at all times.

JVN

03-05-2011, 11:29

You needed safety glasses to get to the fields because you went through the pits to get to them. Who knows when an accident is going to happen?

So by this logic, do you wear safety glasses while walking down the street?

BrendanB

03-05-2011, 11:33

So by this logic, do you wear safety glasses while walking down the street?
No, with that logic you wouldn't be walking down the street at all! :p

Don Wright

03-05-2011, 11:37

You needed safety glasses to get to the fields because you went through the pits to get to them. Who knows when an accident is going to happen?

There needed to be a way to get to the pit fields without going through the pits. As there was not, you needed safety glasses to get there. It's easier to try to enforce the rule for everyone entering than trying to ask every individual where they are going anyway.

Safety glasses on in the pits at all times.

Or they just trust that everyone is smart and thinks for themselves and trusts us to wear safety glasses when working on the robot like we do in our shop.

We aren't children...

And btw...to all the teams that then make the issue even sillier by sending members to stand by the door with signs and yelling at people to put on their safety glasses in order to win the safety award...really, REALLY? Is that necessary?

pathew100

03-05-2011, 12:04

So by this logic, do you wear safety glasses while walking down the street?

No, but I wear safety glasses when I enter any shop environment. At work, at my teams build site, wherever.

Just because you are walking down an aisle in between pits does not make you invulnerable to injury.

pathew100

03-05-2011, 12:06

Or they just trust that everyone is smart and thinks for themselves and trusts us to wear safety glasses when working on the robot like we do in our shop.

We aren't children...

No, but the children ARE children.

Like I mentioned above, you could also be injured outside of your 10x10 pit area. Every other team is operating power tools, etc as well.

Cory

03-05-2011, 13:30

No, but the children ARE children.

Like I mentioned above, you could also be injured outside of your 10x10 pit area. Every other team is operating power tools, etc as well.

It's highly improbable that you could be injured in one of the central walkways leading to the pit fields where there really aren't pits that close to you.

My point is FIRST either needs to put a path directly to the fields like along the wall where the robot path was, or they need to stop being so rude about safety glasses.

Mike Soukup

03-05-2011, 13:45

And btw...to all the teams that then make the issue even sillier by sending members to stand by the door with signs and yelling at people to put on their safety glasses in order to win the safety award...really, REALLY? Is that necessary?
Apparently it is. I think the mascot of the team that won the safety award yelled at me while I was entering the pits to put on my glasses as I was wiping them off to put them on. Since that behavior was rewarded by FIRST with an award, expect more copycats next year.

ChristinaR

03-05-2011, 16:47

Now that I'm finally home from my long travel saga, I'll add my 2 cents:

The Good:

Volunteers and media were very well taken care of this year. The media room was great. We were fed well and all the necessary resources were available (brochures, books, helpful volunteers, fast internet!).
Lots of maps available.
No bag checks. It made getting into the dome a lot easier.
The short walk to the dome floor.
Nearby, seemingly plentiful parking
The collegiate demo. While I don't necessarily want a full collegiate FIRST program, it was cool to see the flying 'bots.
To whomever had that great WALL-E bot roaming around, well done.

The Neutral:

I'm conflicted about the concert. I'll admit it was great and everyone had a great time. However, I still don't know how I feel about the pit fields.
While they were fun to watch, I saw someone get socked in the face by a paper airplane. If it were sharp enough, that could hurt!
The celebrity videos during the concert. They were funny, but the sentiment "my robot is better than your robot" seemed a bit off of the GP base.
It's harder to travel to STL. It took me 18 hours to get there from Boston because of weather (unavoidable) and lack of flights (ironically, my layover was in ATL, where I slept overnight). I also had to stay another night in STL due to lack of flights out. Of course, this may be tornado related.

The Less-Than-Good:

It took over a day to get my bearings. The pit layout was very confusing my first few times in there.
Hard to initially tell what division was on what field for that day.
Crowd control around the pit fields didn't really exist, especially during eliminations.
Inconsistent handling of media. Sometimes I could photograph the field from a certain spot, where at another field I'd get yelled at. As someone whose been photographing these events for years, it was frustrating.
On the same note, the media box location for finals/awards was pretty rough. They did do what they could to help us, but I hope next year it is in a better location, as I could not properly photograph the stage OR Einstein due to people standing in the way.
This may have been a contract issue, but I wish the concert, or at least the awards there, were webcast. I'm sure the parents of the winning teams that could not attend would have liked to see it live!
The HOF location was not ideal.
My main problem with the pit fields: Anytime I'd go there to photograph a match, I felt like I was standing in someone's way, which I was. I felt bad that I'd be blocking the view of folks on the bleachers.
Bleachers are inherently uncomfortable. As someone with back problems, I'm quite glad I never had to watch matches from them.
Some of the volunteers were downright crabby. (Most were wonderful!)
The whole will.i.am versus Dean Kamen FTC thing wasn't handled very well.

1986titans

03-05-2011, 17:32

The Neutral:

The celebrity videos during the concert. They were funny, but the sentiment "my robot is better than your robot" seemed a bit off of the GP base.

I couldn't understand much of the song that was repeated throughout the awards, but I could very clearly hear "my robot is better than your robot" by about the third time through. Given the fact that a Google search of that phrase doesn't turn up any song lyrics, I wonder if it is somehow connected to a soon to be released song by one or more of the artists featured in the videos.

pathew100

03-05-2011, 18:18

It's highly improbable that you could be injured in one of the central walkways leading to the pit fields where there really aren't pits that close to you.

My point is FIRST either needs to put a path directly to the fields like along the wall where the robot path was, or they need to stop being so rude about safety glasses.

First, I completely agree that there needs to be a pedestrian path to the pit fields. This was definitely an oversight when they came up with this floorplan and caused much confusion and confrontation at the entrances.

Second, an eye injury is low probability but high severity. And the chance is non-zero. The policy is safety glasses in the pits at all times. I don't understand why that is so hard to comprehend.

Also, what you might consider rudeness is a volunteer trying to do their job. Because they do their job (which is not easy), your team can compete and have fun in a safer environment for all. You might try thanking them next time instead of brushing them off.

Karibou

03-05-2011, 19:26

So by this logic, do you wear safety glasses while walking down the street?

You don't? ;P

More thoughts on the pit fields: I agree that they need to be moved to an area that doesn't require safety glasses to get to. Given the non-negotiable path of robot traffic to the dome, this would probably mean placing the fields around where the FTC and FLL areas were. That could move the pits for those programs closer to the entrance to the dome (by where the fields were this year), which I don't have any objection to. Moving the FRC fields there would pose two options for safety glasses: a) the only connection between the pits and the field would be the queuing line, or b) it would have to be made VERY clear where the field ends and the pits start, and another safety glasses table would likely be needed (which presents the opportunity for a huge, dangerous bottleneck).

Also, if anyone decides that they considered the safety glasses volunteers rude (not just doing their job), complaining to or about FIRST about that will do nothing, especially with no substantial and objective proof. While volunteers are a part of and represent FIRST at events, they are not employees. It's not like they can be fired from their job. At this point, all that could be done is scolding.

Edit, to avoid posting twice in one hour:
Ed and Richard are right about reassigning/passing on people. I've heard the stories too. There will still be volunteers every year that are considered rude, though, whether they are the same people or new ones.

Koko Ed

03-05-2011, 19:31

You don't? ;P

More thoughts on the pit fields: I agree that they need to be moved to an area that doesn't require safety glasses to get to. Given the non-negotiable path of robot traffic to the dome, this would probably mean placing the fields around where the FTC and FLL areas were. That could move the pits for those programs closer to the entrance to the dome (by where the fields were this year), which I don't have any objection to. Moving the FRC fields there would pose two options for safety glasses: a) the only connection between the pits and the field would be the queuing line, or b) it would have to be made VERY clear where the field ends and the pits start, and another safety glasses table would likely be needed (which presents the opportunity for a huge, dangerous bottleneck).

Also, if anyone decides that they considered the safety glasses volunteers rude (not just doing their job), complaining to or about FIRST about that will do nothing, especially with no substantial and objective proof. While volunteers are a part of and represent FIRST at events, they are not employees. It's not like they can be fired from their job. At this point, all that could be done is scolding.
I have heard cases of FIRST passing on people for volunteering before when they prove to be a problem.

rsisk

03-05-2011, 19:43

While volunteers are a part of and represent FIRST at events, they are not employees. It's not like they can be fired from their job. At this point, all that could be done is scolding.

Volunteers cannot be fired, but it is possible they can be assigned to a different position the next year or not return at all.

From my experience at CMP, I would say about 90% of the volunteers were pleasant to work with, 9% were extraordinarily wonderful to work with, .9% had their moments, and .1% were in the needs improvement category. Not perfect, but pretty darn close. I'd apply the same percentages to the teams we were working for.

Feedback like we are seeing on these threads is good, it gives a chance to evaluate what we have done right and wrong and provides an opportunity for improvement. It's healthy and appreciated.

Kevin Sevcik

03-05-2011, 22:27

MrForbes

03-05-2011, 23:04

My cars have laminated windshields.

My guess is that the safety glasses issue is something that has to do with insurance, and it's unlikely that we'll be able to modify it.

pathew100

04-05-2011, 01:22

I feel like we should start a new thread specifically about FIRST's safety glasses policy.

Arguments that there's a non-zero chance of eye injury are not persuasive. There's a non-zero chance that a rock will shatter your car windshield into a million pieces. To paraphrase JVN, do you drive with your safety glasses on? I should hope not, as the loss of peripheral vision is much more dangerous.

Which is to say, perhaps we should examine whether the costs of wearing safety glasses outweighs the benefits.

I'm wondering if we might get more benefit if we pull the volunteers and team "volunteers" from the safety glasses Maginot Line* and distribute them around the pits to monitor other, more serious safety issues. Issues like teams standing around crowding pits and aisles, teams working on robots outside their pits, minibot towers outside of pits, and various other dangerous doings. I have to think that it's better to reduce the possibility of accidents than to reduce the potential severity of a small class of those accidents.

*We all surely realize that the door guards are useless once someone's behind them without safety glasses, right?

There's no question that the other safety issues need to be looked at. There were many other violations in the pits that could be avoided. Running in the pits was a particular problem at this event with the distances involved.

I have to ask you if you've ever worked in a manufacturing plant/test lab/machine shop environment. If so, then you were required by your employer to wear eye protection. This is not just for their insurance, employers are required by OSHA regulation to ensure compliance.

I understand that FIRST isn't an employer except for a few people but they are following industry best practices regarding eye protection and it is probably part of their liability insurance as well.

The facts are that safety glasses are a simple method to reduce potential injury. You say that the cost of safety glasses isn't a benefit? What is the cost of an eye?

EricH

04-05-2011, 03:10

I'm almost with Kevin on the safety glasses issue. However:

There are only three ways to deal with this. You either make darn sure that every casual spectator going to a pit field puts on safety glasses to go there (and then have someone to take them at that end, possibly), you move the fields out of the flying debris area, or you make a "No debris" zone all the way down the route to the field.

Ideally, of course, you move the fields back to the Dome area. Not exactly practical.

The safety glasses for "transit" purposes is tricky. I know I don't want to be the volunteer forcing everyone to put them on!

But, I think the "No debris" zone is a reasonable alternative. On some industry assembly/production floors, you can walk around without safety glasses. However, you do not go beyond a certain clearly marked line! This line is far enough from the equipment that you have time to try to dodge or deflect anything thrown off the machines. Granted, this is not in a machine shop. But that doesn't mean that stuff doesn't occasionally go flying.

I would suggest the following, actually: One extra safety glasses distribution point at each pit field AND a marked "No Debris" zone. Anybody just there for matches can go to the fields without safety glasses, provided that they stay in the "No Debris" zone. If they change their mind while at the field, or are there for the pits in the first place, they can pick up a pair of glasses at either end of the zone to wander around the pits (and drop them of at either end as well.

ToddF

04-05-2011, 07:47

Ideally, of course, you move the fields back to the Dome area. Not exactly practical.

I emphatically disagree. Without an entertainment stage taking up half the dome floor, all four division fields would have been in the dome, where they belong in the first place.

Not only did having fields in the pits cheapen the championship experience for the teams that had to play on them, and their team members, parents and sponsors who could not find seats, it also unnecessarily exposed spectators to an unsafe environment, possibly leading to serious eye injury. All of which was foreseeable and preventable by the organizers of the event.

Lawyer: "Members of the jury, FIRST made the decision to place the production of a promotional television show above the safety of the attendees of their event. As a result, my client sustained irreparable injury and needless emotional distress. For this reason, we ask you to award maximum monetary damages so that this organization and others like it think twice before placing publicity and self promotion above safety."

Don Wright

04-05-2011, 07:58

Not only did having fields in the pits cheapen the championship experience for the teams that had to play on them, and their team members, parents and sponsors who could not find seats, it also unnecessarily exposed spectators to an unsafe environment, possibly leading to serious eye injury. All of which was foreseeable and preventable by the organizers of the event.

Lawyer: "Members of the jury, FIRST made the decision to place the production of a promotional television show above the safety of the attendees of their event. As a result, my client sustained irreparable injury and needless emotional distress. For this reason, we ask you to award maximum monetary damages so that this organization and others like it think twice before placing publicity and self promotion above safety."

Really? Unsafe environment? Possibly leading to serious eye injury? Is this really how you are thinking?

Don Wright

04-05-2011, 08:08

Likes:

- The relaxed security into the dome
- Allowing us on the upper levels in the Dome for Finals
- Once they finally opened the doors to the shorter route to the Dome, the walk from the pits to the Dome
- I actually like the fields in the pits
- Parking
- Bus unloading here was significantly better than that huge long bus queue line in Atlanta
- I didn't like it at first, but the semi-intertwined pits caused me to see some robots and teams I probably wouldn't have sought out specifically if I hadn't just run into them.
- Lots of other displays for people to visit

Dislikes:

- No broadcast of the action on the fields in the pits so we can see some matches without leaving the pit area
- Need better display of rankings
- Practice fields not open earlier (I know this was to protect for opening ceremony)
- Some refs not seemingly knowing the rules (speculation)
- Need better food near the pits
- Over zealous volunteers
- need routes on the maps - the maps were great, but didn't tell you that if you walk down that long hallway and get to the end, the doors will be locked.

Overall I think it was a tremendous start and I look forward to the next two years in St. Louis.

ToddF

04-05-2011, 10:02

Really? Unsafe environment? Possibly leading to serious eye injury? Is this really how you are thinking?

For me personally, not really. I do all kind of crazy activities that most people would find way too risky.

But, reviewing the thread, I think a skillful lawyer could make that case. I have seen many posts about "unsafe" actions committed by teams which were tolerated by the FIRST safety monitors. When unsafe practices are allowed to exist by the responsible authority, that creates liability.

I think it could be argued that the pit area is inherently more dangerous than the spectator seating in the dome. If there were not a threat of serious eye injury, there would not be a requirement for safety glasses to be worn in the pit areas at all times. At the regionals I have attended, it was not a requirement that spectators expose themselves to this increased level of hazard in order to simply watch the matches. But at the finals, it was.

Statistically, at some time, some spectator IS going to be injured. Their health insurance company lawyers are going to examining the circumstances which lead up to that injury. If FIRST has in any way been negligent, they are going to get taken to the cleaners.

If I were on that legal team, the first thing I would do is subpoena any video footage shot by every team at the event that might show unsafe conditions which FIRST could have or should have anticipated, but did not prevent from occurring. I'm betting that if I were to review the footage that even our one team took of the matches, I would find many, many people in the stands of the pit fields not wearing safety glasses. I would present this to a jury as evidence that FIRST created a known safety hazard, and allowed it to exist, even in violation of it's own rules.

Why should FIRST even go there? Putting the match fields back in the dome shows that FIRST exercises due diligence to protect spectators from preventable harm. We live in a lawsuit happy culture where hanging a "Beware of Dog" sign is not evidence of concern that visitors not be harmed. It is evidence that the owner knew that their pet was dangerous and yet did not take steps to prevent the public from harm.

And in the interests of full and open disclosure, I personally don't believe that anywhere at the competition was unacceptably dangerous. But, I am willing to use this hypothetical argument as a way to get the pit fields out of the pits and back into the dome.

pathew100

04-05-2011, 10:07

Really? Unsafe environment? Possibly leading to serious eye injury? Is this really how you are thinking?

Yes, the pits are an environment where you could sustain an eye injury. All eye injuries are serious! That's why safety glasses are mandatory

There were many other hazards and bad behavior in the pits as well.

People running down the aisles
Teams crowding the aisles
Teams pushing robot carts too fast through/around slower traffic
Teams operating robots in the aisles
Facilites/Production company people operating carts/forklifts/manlifts in pedestrian traffic without using their horn

A good lawyer could turn spin all that into a negligent/unsafe environment.

Dancin103

04-05-2011, 10:20

Although the event was proposed to be a complete disaster by some people, I was pleasantly surprised.
Edit: The only other complaint I had was the placement of the HOF booths. It seems they were figured out last minute where they would go, so they were put in a corner. Maybe this is bias because I was over there more than most people, but I think they should be celebrated a bit more.

Overall, a great experience. I am glad the negative feelings were proved wrong. Great job volunteers, planning committees, and FIRST! :D

I definitely agree with Phil here. After seeing everything that Bill Miller was blogging I had visions of this event being a complete disaster, and for those of you who remember Houston in 2003, I thought it was going to be worse than that. I must say, I loved Championships in Saint Louis. I loved the intimate setting of the whole thing. I loved the two fields in the pits, although, the stands could have been bigger. My one BIG complaint is where the Hall of Fame teams were located. I feel as though the HOF area could have been placed in a different location in the pit area and more in the FRC area for teams to come and interact with the students more.

The performance was absolutely awesome! I thank the Black Eyed Peas and Will.I.Am for putting on such a fantastic show and for celebrating FIRST. It was also very gracious of FIRST to provide boxed dinners on Saturday as well.

All in all I felt like the event was great and I can't wait for next year!

Cassie Beck

TD78

04-05-2011, 10:55

My one BIG complaint is where the Hall of Fame teams were located. I feel as though the HOF area could have been placed in a different location in the pit area and more in the FRC area for teams to come and interact with the students more.

Perhaps they could have been relocated to just outside the main FRC pit entrance (in the huge common area where people waited in the mornings to get into the pit)? Everyone would have to walk by them then! My only thought against it would be a possible fire hazard for mass exit from the pits?

Lots of positives from St. Louis makes me think next year will be even better. The issue of needing safety glasses to get to a field was a bit of a pain. Since I forsee pit fields in the future, perhaps the fields could be moved closer to the main entrances, and put the pits where the fields were this year? The side doors to the halls could have been better utilized, even if it required more volunteers and more safety glasses to distribute. Would have made the commute to the dome a little easier.

Other than the food at the after party being less than desirable and the mass confusion that was the after party, I thought everything at Championship was great!

Bill_B

04-05-2011, 11:11

JaneYoung

04-05-2011, 12:10

EricH

04-05-2011, 12:12

No debris zones? how can that be laid out.
It's kind of tricky--you'd want a 25'+ wide path. 5'+, marked, for people to walk in, with a good, solid 10'+ on either side, running on the most direct route possible. Anybody not in safety glasses needs to stay in the marked area; everybody wearing safety glasses can go wherever they need to.

Looking at the load-in diagram (I don't have a pit map), the run to Curie would run from the corner entrance area around Pit Admin. Ideally, Galileo and Curie pits in that area would be swapped, and the aisle right behind the first aid station would be widened to the minimum distance. Newton would run along the wall (15'+ wide--the wall prevents anything flying from the other side) where the robot route is now up to the end of the practice field, then go straight to the field from there. Where possible, all those paths would go along walls (lower space requirement due to the wall on one side).

BrendanB

04-05-2011, 12:41

If FTC expanding is what started the move of one FRC field then how about some FTC fields move to the pits for a year! ;)

I have a serious question about the initial plans for fitting items in the new arena before the concert was in the works. IF FTC was growing and needed more space, what about the far ends of the dome? Remembering back to Atlanta there was space on the ends for some smaller event to be held like FTC or FLL.

Maybe there are some things I am not considering as I am not involved with FTC, but when someone mentioned Bill saying that with FTC growing they had to move a field but that didn't make sense to me since I remember space leftover in ATL.

my $0.02

JesseK

04-05-2011, 13:00

Hey, whatdya know -- the 2011 Championship Survey was just emailed to team contacts a few minutes ago.

With all of the robot cross-traffic of teams going to the Dome, I understand why it may be necessary to require safety glasses for pit fields. Yet they (possibly) could have arranged the pit fields so as to facilitate a safety zone where goggles weren't required. However, I'm sure there's some logistical/other tradeoff to doing so.

Great
Food -- the boxed lunch was spectacularly better than either DC or VA. DC's was something next to 'god awful' and VCU's was a 'not bad', but Champ's was great. Bottled water, chips/cookies/sandwich left me hungry at 4pm rather than 2-3pm at the regionals.
Pit field proximity to pit, and feeling like we had 'court-side seats' to some of the best matches FRC can offer spectators. If we could figure out how to increase the quantity of seating, I'd be all for pit fields next year.

Good
For once, I didn't feel like the music was trying to rip a hole through my eardrums as we stood in queue or put the robot on the field.
Wildstang broke 2 paradigms on my team last week (though they weren't my own POV's). They'll forever be on my 'rock stars' list becaue of it. 1.) You don't NEED high traction wheels to make it to Einstein. 2.) No, the driver coach doesn't need to micro-manage the drivers. We simply need to design the robot in such a way that gives the operators more opportunities to quickly recover from the inevitable failures (dropped tube, misalignment, etc). Thanks Raul!

Meh
I didn't get a shirt this year, for the first time in 3 years. Honestly, I hope several others noticed their elevated prices and didn't purchase because of it.

I think I stated enough about the bad in the 2011-Negative thread, but the only other thing I'd add on top of what others have stated regards the safety advisors. Safety is taken seriously most of the time, yet it's not administered evenly. That cute little WallE robot attracted crowds that would make a 20-30-foot circle, including 2 safety advisors at one point. I understand that it's very easy to lose focus at a championships; but really if they're going to be pedantic about us having too many people in front of our pit, they need to be pedantic about the other situations that happen as well.

Kevin Sevcik

04-05-2011, 13:26

Lots of thought fodder in this thread. I'd like to see some diagrams made to support some of the relocation ideas proposed. Want larger bleacher areas? where? Better routing? sketch out what you mean. No debris zones? how can that be laid out.

Hey, you're not designing a robot for a while, why not try your hand at "venue" design.
I can't chop up the Load-In PDF at the moment, but I'm thinking you land the two fields in the hall next to 9th street, possibly oozing out into the corner of the two halls. If you keep them the same orientation as now and slide them close together, you can economize on the extra space usually taken up around fields for equipment, storage, aisles, etc. Then pits and all the other miscellanies go in the hall occupied by Newton. Yes, you'd be back to the giant labyrinth of pits, but you have to admit that the packing efficiency is a good bit higher. Plus it keeps the FRC pits completely separate from the stands, which eliminates the need for debris-free lanes, etc. And puts the fields right next to FTC in case any of them are interested in checking things out.

Yes, you could swap this around and have the fields where Newton is, but then you've got a lot of robot traffic all headed in one direction, inevitably crossing the path to the fields for the public. Plus it'd be harder to balance pit vs. field locations to keep travel distances mostly equal.

If you're concerned this puts the fields too close together and could cause cross-talk problems, then you could separate the fields more and fill up the in-between space with scholarship row, the NI and Autodesk stages, etc, etc. More added benefit there in that the public could check out those venues without the safety glasses hassle.

Mind you, that Load-In map is a complete and utter lie. I sure don't recall those spots near the fields for "Spare Parts" and "TV Viewing". And the pit layout was a little different. And that map cleverly doesn't show all the space taken up on the Curie/Archimedes border by a wall o' robot crates not even stacked double high. If space was really at a premium and we really wanted to expand things to fit in bigger bleachers, I would think we could do something better with crates than just shoving them across the aisle. I'll admit it was personally convenient during loadout since our crate was right there, I'd have gladly traded that for more seats around Curie.

Debbie

04-05-2011, 18:32

Hey, whatdya know -- the 2011 Championship Survey was just emailed to team contacts a few minutes ago.

Food -- the boxed lunch was spectacularly better than either DC or VA. DC's was something next to 'god awful' and VCU's was a 'not bad', but Champ's was great.

[/list]
You must have A) not looked inside your food.. or you would've seen the mold that I found on 10 sandwiches our team ordered... and B) have a much stronger stomach than those that got sick on my team! :) I'm glad someone enjoyed it! It certainly wasn't me :D lol

Karibou

04-05-2011, 19:27

I just keep on thinking of more things to add. Sorry for always posting something new :/

Did anyone else feel like the arrows on the floor weren't accurate? I don't know which ones in particular, but I remember looking down a few times after I had gotten my bearings, saw "FTC/FRC to __location__" and thought "That's not right..." There were even a few that had one of the competition names blocked out in black Sharpie.

rwood359

04-05-2011, 19:45

I wish they would have explained more of what the Chairmans team did. Either at the concert or at the award ceremony.

Visit our web site http://waialuarobotics.com.
There will be a link to our Chairman's video shortly. All shot in HD, I think that it is excellent.

kristin329

04-05-2011, 19:52

Good
The concert! I was originally sore about it kicking out 2 fields, but it was well worth it!
The hotel we stayed at was beautiful with great views of the arch.
The representatives at scholarship row helped me narrow down my top schools.
Roboprom!!
St. Louis was wonderful, they really did their best to welcome us.

Bad
Crowd surfing...my team was on the floor for the concert, and I'm pretty small and weak, so when a crowd surfer came my way, he fell on me and it hurt!
The food was disgusting and overpriced.
The after party was not worth going to, there was virtually nothing to do.

Overall, I had a fantastic time and I'm sure that I can say the rest for my team. :D

john.hobbins

04-05-2011, 20:29

Our team (1241) had an amazing time on the Curie field. I cannot believe that we did not get it done (the job)! However, it goes to show you that anything is possible: what a confidence booster! I want to say that this division was strong, well played and organised - kudos to all teams. Regarding the stands, I found myself wondering what we would do if our team brought more than the 12 students? Looking ahead to next year, I am sure that we would bring a bus load, but, where would they sit? I have always thought that saving seats was ok, especially if your team was aggressive enough to seek out the seats. BUT, at worlds, there is not enough seats. Where should all the people go? Back to the matches; why was the ref calling pushing the opponent into the lane a penalty against the pushing robot? Most times, they did not call a single robot in violation of this rule when they themselves crossed the line? Anyway, I can't wait for the day to play Einstein...
Back in 2004, we were picked by team 60 and 33. We had the catcher robot with a very good human player...who remembers??? Team Hot remembers from the Michigan regional...don't you. You capped us just as the balls were dropping - GREAT STRATEGY!
Worlds 2004 -Wow, getting knocked out in the quarters because of the stick-it note that said our arm was touching the doubler ball :(
Anyway, we have already had several team meetings so that we prepare for next year!

robobandmom

05-05-2011, 16:24

The Championship event was a great competition, but like most events, it had its highs and lows.

The Highs

Lots of great hotels pretty close to the venue. We qualified Week 6 and nice hotels downtown were still available.

Impressive facility. I can understand why St Louis was chosen; the Edward Jones dome and convention center are nice, HUGE facilities.

Upper Deck seating for Einstein. We were on the upper deck and you could see and hear things pretty well.

Friday Night Concert. I went as a parent chaperone, and it was great. I'm not really a huge BEP fan, but the concert had lots of energy and the kids loved it. It was a fantastic bonus for the RCA winners that got floor passes. Our kids had a great time. It would have been nice if the teams that had to play in the pits for 2 of the 3 days got floor passes.

Vending machines for drinks. This seems like a little thing, but if you ask me not to bring outside drinks I expect to be able to get a drink easily...and I could.

The Lows
One area to enter the complex was difficult. In Atlanta you could enter thru the Dome and thru multiple sides of the convention center. I don't understand why you could only enter from one area.

Lack of trash cans. This has been mentioned, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thought this was a problem. One day I carried trash to several overflowing trash cans before I finally just sat my trash down next to an overflowing can.

Three stalls. The 2 women's restrooms closest to the Newton field and pits had 3 stalls each. There was always a line...usually a long line. Why were some of the restrooms in the pits blocked off? Perhaps they were under construction, but we really could have used them.

Layout in the pits for robot traffic. When you entered the pit area, you were immediately crossing the robot lane to get to the dome. This was not safe. I am careful and pay attention so I didn't get clobbered, but I'd be surprised if no one else did. Maybe a crossing guard is needed.

Seating for the Pit Fields. The seating was terribly inadequate. If Championships continues to be run in this way, they will see a drop in attendance. I for one will not bring my family and will discourage extended family from coming. It was too difficult and uncomfortable to sit in the pit fields all day on Saturday. I would expect this to also effect large teams. You can't bring all your students and supporters if you don't have anywhere to put them.

cluksic

05-05-2011, 19:25

the fields and pit areas in the same place was cool. not a long walk and everything was nearby. the only thing about the championships is that saint louis is a dead town, not much at all to do or see.

mgurgol

06-05-2011, 10:41

Debbie

06-05-2011, 11:13

I currently live in St Louis and it is not a dead town. Here is a link to 52 things to do in St. Louis to start with. There are plenty of things to do/visit in town if you are willing to look.

http://www.archcityhomes.com/2010/05/discover-52-st-louis-attractions/

That is a great link. I found a lot to do also... unfortunately.. i couldn't find the time to do any of them.. LOL I had really hoped to get to the zoo, especially since it is free... BUT.. some robots kept me too busy to do anything else... :D

Shof

06-05-2011, 11:28

I currently live in St Louis and it is not a dead town. Here is a link to 52 things to do in St. Louis to start with. There are plenty of things to do/visit in town if you are willing to look.

http://www.archcityhomes.com/2010/05/discover-52-st-louis-attractions/

compare to new york city life, i think overall st louis is somewhat of a dead town with everything closing by 8-9pm. The closest subway near the dome closed by 5pm which is a bit strange considering subway here in the city closes around 11pm-12am. Making getting some food nearby around 7pm is a bit of a challenge

EricH

06-05-2011, 11:45

When you're comparing to a city that never sleeps, then yeah, you *might* have a point.

But you're comparing a city in the Midwest to a city that never sleeps, and you aren't looking anywhere near hard enough. Admittedly, I've heard that the Landing area near the arena is a place that maybe HS students don't want to go at night--even college students want to go in largish groups. But there are other places to go, within walking distance, that should be open. Like quite possibly the TGI Friday's over near the Capitol building would be open, some pizza places are quite probably open--and those are within walking distance.

Joe Ross

06-05-2011, 11:56

But there are other places to go, within walking distance, that should be open. Like quite possibly the TGI Friday's over near the Capitol building would be open, some pizza places are quite probably open--and those are within walking distance.

It was frustrating to walk past place after place that was closed at 9:30, and find that the places that were open (like TGI Fridays) had lines 1+ hours long.

Mr V

06-05-2011, 12:53

Well, team 3588 built a wooden bench out of extra wood for us to sit on since we had no chairs. We did end up carrying the bench around the pit area to have other teams sign it though! Overall we got several thousand signatures, including Dean Kamen and Woody Flowers! Anyone on here sign our bench?

Yup I signed it on the left side of the back and used it too for a brief rest while touring the pits. It was great to see you guys there!

Koko Ed

06-05-2011, 16:13

When I am busy busting my butt from 8 in the morning til 6 in the evening moving teams on and off the field the only thing I am interested in doing is going back to my hotel room and sleeping.

jblay

06-05-2011, 17:38

Koko Ed

06-05-2011, 17:53

This very well could have been the greatest championship event yet. This game was incredible in terms of excitement when watching the matches. Why was Einstein so boring? The lack of music hurt things a lot but the most disappointing thing is how every year the amount of info about each team and the amount of excitement before each match created by the MC has been scaled down. For those who don't know what I am talking about I suggest you watch this Einstein match from 06 and how exciting it was before the match even started.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006cmp_sf2m1

That excitement just wasn't there this year and the whole process seemed to be rushed
They were rushing teams to the field to sit there for an hour while an endless parade of speakers verbally bludgeoned the audience into unconsciousness and they didn't get any wake up call from any sound effects to let them know they actually started the match. Like they didn't want to wake them up. How considerate of them.

Mike Soukup

06-05-2011, 18:49

This very well could have been the greatest championship event yet. This game was incredible in terms of excitement when watching the matches. Why was Einstein so boring? The lack of music hurt things a lot but the most disappointing thing is how every year the amount of info about each team and the amount of excitement before each match created by the MC has been scaled down. For those who don't know what I am talking about I suggest you watch this Einstein match from 06 and how exciting it was before the match even started.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006cmp_sf2m1

That excitement just wasn't there this year and the whole process seemed to be rushed
Unfortunately whoever at FIRST puts together the schedule for Einstein + awards thinks that it's important for a multitude of speakers to say the same thing over & over, which unfortunately doesn't leave enough time for Dave's captivating introductions. The lack of music was also a real downer; I'm pretty sure they didn't have any music because it would interfere with the filming that was going on during the matches.

FRC4ME

06-05-2011, 18:56

This very well could have been the greatest championship event yet. This game was incredible in terms of excitement when watching the matches. Why was Einstein so boring? The lack of music hurt things a lot but the most disappointing thing is how every year the amount of info about each team and the amount of excitement before each match created by the MC has been scaled down. For those who don't know what I am talking about I suggest you watch this Einstein match from 06 and how exciting it was before the match even started.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006cmp_sf2m1

That excitement just wasn't there this year and the whole process seemed to be rushed

This has been a problem since 2007. The awards + finals format just doesn't work. It kills the excitement of the finals.

I would love to see something done to make the final match of the world championship at least as exciting as your average regional match.

Koko Ed

06-05-2011, 19:02

This has been a problem since 2007. The awards + finals format just doesn't work. It kills the excitement of the finals.

I would love to see something done to make the final match of the world championship at least as exciting as your average regional match.

I can't ever recall a FIRST championship without matches wrapped around endless speeches.

jblay

06-05-2011, 19:36

I can't ever recall a FIRST championship without matches wrapped around endless speeches.

Wrap it around endless speeches, that is fine, but make sure that Einstein is exciting enough to inspire teams to work hard to strive to reach Einstein. Einstein is supposed to be the most exciting field in the world and it was the least exciting field this year and that is just not acceptable. Have the speeches, but also have the MC speak to his heart's content because that is part of what makes Einstein so special.

Richard Wallace

06-05-2011, 21:22

... have the MC speak to his heart's content because that is part of what makes Einstein so special.As has already (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1059811&postcount=122) been pointed out, an unleashed Dave Verbrugge can and will pump the finals to a fever pitch.

Both at MSC and on Einstein this year, Dave was not completely free to work his magic. That's because both were being filmed for TV productions, to be seen later. I think in each case the eventual show would have been better with full-throttle Dave on the field.

JaneYoung

06-05-2011, 23:10

I've read and re-read all the threads here in CD and talked to a few people about the events leading up to the Championship event and the Championship event, itself.

We know it was the anniversary year.
We know from Kick Off that something was in the works with Will.I.Am and that Dean was going to make as much use of it as he could.
We had a brand new location/shift for the Championship event this year, along with some new regionals.

Lots of new. Lots of special (anniversary recognition). Lots of spotlight potential - also being used to full advantage.

We know that celebrities can burn white hot and then not so much. We also know that celebrities can have staying power - Morgan Freeman.

We know that FIRST pushed out of the comfort zone (whatever that is) and took all of us along for the ride.

We know that the ride is bringing in mixed reviews but they seem to be positive, overall.

We know that FIRST and CD are loaded to the gills with problems solvers and analysts.

Basically, we know that water seeks to find its own level and always does. Seasons come and go and with them, change. If we continue to remember and value the reasons that we joined and have remained in the program in the first place, we can continue to contribute in a positive way, offering constructive insight, wisdom, and knowledge to help the program continue to develop.

An area that I have seen woefully neglected in all of the current discussions is the area of sustainability. We can be made loud but will it be the noisy clash of a cymbal crashing or will it be the depth and breadth of a bell ringing loud and clear? That depends on our leadership and our leaders' leadership. In the end, the water will find its own level.

Jane

pathew100

06-05-2011, 23:53

As has already (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1059811&postcount=122) been pointed out, an unleashed Dave Verbrugge can and will pump the finals to a fever pitch.

Both at MSC and on Einstein this year, Dave was not completely free to work his magic. That's because both were being filmed for TV productions, to be seen later. I think in each case the eventual show would have been better with full-throttle Dave on the field.

This is an issue that they should be able to address if they make the production companies filming do it in a "Live" style instead of "Taped for editing later". For lack of better terms.

There were huge delays at MSC because of the TV production. The idea of teams needing timeouts/backup robots was out the window because teams had quite a while between matches in the semis and finals.

In other sports, yes, they stop the action occasionally to take a "TV timeout" that lasts 3-4 minutes. This is no longer than the setup time between matches typically.

I think in the future if events are to be filmed they shouldn't hold up the show. Shoot what you need to shoot, get more cameras, whatever. But as you said Richard, it does detract from the "live show" aspect of the event greatly.

Pat Fairbank

07-05-2011, 16:03

This very well could have been the greatest championship event yet. This game was incredible in terms of excitement when watching the matches. Why was Einstein so boring? The lack of music hurt things a lot but the most disappointing thing is how every year the amount of info about each team and the amount of excitement before each match created by the MC has been scaled down. For those who don't know what I am talking about I suggest you watch this Einstein match from 06 and how exciting it was before the match even started.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006cmp_sf2m1

That excitement just wasn't there this year and the whole process seemed to be rushed
Agree completely. This was my second time participating on a team that made it to Einstein (the first being 296 in 2006) and it was a huge letdown compared to then. Back then, the Einstein teams got to parade in behind the Atlanta Drumline, and Dave got to do a grand entrance (and pull an epic prank). Then, starting in 2008, they nixed the parade and showed pre-recorded team intros on the big screen. This year, they didn't even do that.

Whatever happened to celebrating the 12 teams who make it to the pinnacle of the competition season?