2012 Game?

[JesseK]

Fun tidbit of info:

AndyMark released an interesting product today: the 20" Toughbox Nanotube.
Link: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0949.htm

Why is this important, you ask?
In 2009, for AndyMark to be the provider of those special wheels, they probably would have had to know about them around this time of year. This amount of lead time on a business their size is about right for designing producing so many wheels by kickoff. Ergo, we could postulate that they just came out with a product that foreshadows smaller footprints in 2012.

Of course, this could be a residual product of one of their non-FRC projects and could have nothing to do with the 2012 FRC game. But where's the fun in thinking along those lines?

[pctweak]

I would also wager that balls will be the gamepiece, but other interesting things to play with could be:

Footballs, hockey pucks, batons, small rectangular shapes, etc...

[Bjenks548]

For this past year, the GDC used another tube game. It was the first year that no current students had played with tubes. Anyone think we are going to have to launch something this year (Overdriveish)? Current seniors have been involved in Lunacy, Breakaway, and Logomotion. I would like to see something sports based or with one game piece and one way of scoring (Lunacy/Breakaway) to keep explinations simple. I also would love something completely new like Breakaway because there was no way to clone an old robot.

[Andrew Lawrence]

because there was no way to clone an old robot.

Cloning robots. What I disliked most about this season. For me, it just kinda takes the fun away when you see robots that look like the ones from around 5 years back. I also don't like games where every robot looks the same (elevator and roller claw). That takes out half the fun of everything! Don't you like to walk into a regional, or the championships, or a district, and see all of the cool, amazingly unique robots? That's what gets me so pumped up about the competition. But when you walk into a stadium with 62 robots that look just like yours, it makes the competition less fun. I remember in 2010 most all robots I saw were unique, and each one had it's own perks to play with/against. Matches were always different, and each team could be easily recognizable via their robot. Whatever the 2012 game is, I hope it's not as specific as locomotion, and allows unique robots that can still succeed.

tl;dr? I want a simple game.

[Brandon Zalinsky]

I'd love to see the day when duct tape is a game piece. The game? Use the rolls of duct tape to complete some sort of task!

And staple guns...
http://xkcd.com/478/

[roboticsgoof95]

I must say that for the two years of being in FIRST im hoping for a sports type of game, but i truely cannot wait for the next game. :) I will be completely honest, I doubt there will be another mini bot thing at the end, since 2011 was mini bot related.

[roboticsgoof95]

I dunno...they've run out of mainstream sports to do.
ie. 2006 - Aim High (Basketball)
2007 - Rack 'n Roll (Not a sport)
2008 - Overdrive (NASCAR)
2009 - Lunacy (Not a sport)
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion (Not a sport)

2012 - Sport?

I completely agree with this statement! :)

[roboticsgoof95]

I disagree with making a game simple, where would the fun be if it was simple. Its not an every day thing. I mean robotics is important in my life as is yours but i want a difficult game that makes my mind run wild. just a thought.

[Robert Cawthon]

I disagree with making a game simple, where would the fun be if it was simple. Its not an every day thing. I mean robotics is important in my life as is yours but i want a difficult game that makes my mind run wild. just a thought.

Do not confuse "Simple to understand" with "Simple to accomplish". Overdrive was very easy for the audience to understand, but handling a 40 inch ball reliably was not so simple. Still, I think each game should have some tasks that are easy to accomplish and some that are more difficult to reflect the various capabilities of the different teams.

[roboticsgoof95]

Do not confuse "Simple to understand" with "Simple to accomplish". Overdrive was very easy for the audience to understand, but handling a 40 inch ball reliably was not so simple. Still, I think each game should have some tasks that are easy to accomplish and some that are more difficult to reflect the various capabilities of the different teams.

yes, but when its hard to understand it makes it more fun to try to pull what you can out of the rules. such as break away, 469 played with the rules not knowing if they were breaking rules or not. their robot was amazing no doubt, yet the rules were not clear so no other teams thought of it.

[dmitch]

Well since the world's gonna end in 2012 :D , we will have to prevent it. Duh

[roboticsgoof95]

Well since the world's gonna end in 2012 :D , we will have to prevent it. Duh

TRUE DAT!!! :D

[Travis Hoffman]

Hockey on a Lunacy field, only using wheels of cheese as pucks (or if you are not cool, some plastic facsimile). My apologies if this has already been mentioned. For some reason, I doubt it. :D

[roboticsgoof95]

Hockey on a Lunacy field, only using wheels of cheese as pucks (or if you are not cool, some plastic facsimile). My apologies if this has already been mentioned. For some reason, I doubt it. :D

i like it but im thinking instead of cheese you use white castles!! :)

[RayTurner1126]

when thinking in terms of simplicity, lets not forget that our main goal in FIRST is not to entertain an audience, but rather to learn about engineering through building a robot. So, we wouldn't really want a simple challenge, because the experience gained from that is not nearly as great as it is from a difficult challenge, even if it makes the game hard to understand.

[EricH]

when thinking in terms of simplicity, lets not forget that our main goal in FIRST is not to entertain an audience, but rather to learn about engineering through building a robot. So, we wouldn't really want a simple challenge, because the experience gained from that is not nearly as great as it is from a difficult challenge, even if it makes the game hard to understand.
Are you sure about that?

FIRST's vision is "To transform our culture by creating a world where science and technology are celebrated and where young people dream of becoming science and technology leaders." (From the FIRST website)

FIRST's mission is "to inspire young people to be science and technology leaders, by engaging them in exciting mentor-based programs that build science, engineering and technology skills, that inspire innovation, and that foster well-rounded life capabilities including self-confidence, communication, and leadership."

The robots are just a vehicle--you could do just about any STEM mentor-based program with the same effect. The culture transformation needed is accomplished by getting more people involved with the program. If people are not attracted to the program, they will not get involved. Therefore, we do need to make the games attractive. Part of that is making it so that they are easy to understand, which involves making them simple. The simpler, the better--to a point, as you do need to keep the existing teams challenged.

And, something I've been wanting to say for a while: This whole thread is pointless, as the GDC is already working on the 2013 game. Therefore, we should be discussing the 2014 game.

[roboticsgoof95]

Are you sure about that?

FIRST's vision is "To transform our culture by creating a world where science and technology are celebrated and where young people dream of becoming science and technology leaders." (From the FIRST website)

FIRST's mission is "to inspire young people to be science and technology leaders, by engaging them in exciting mentor-based programs that build science, engineering and technology skills, that inspire innovation, and that foster well-rounded life capabilities including self-confidence, communication, and leadership."

The robots are just a vehicle--you could do just about any STEM mentor-based program with the same effect. The culture transformation needed is accomplished by getting more people involved with the program. If people are not attracted to the program, they will not get involved. Therefore, we do need to make the games attractive. Part of that is making it so that they are easy to understand, which involves making them simple. The simpler, the better--to a point, as you do need to keep the existing teams challenged.

And, something I've been wanting to say for a while: This whole thread is pointless, as the GDC is already working on the 2013 game. Therefore, we should be discussing the 2014 game.

Well, you do make a good point ,but i must disagree with you.... when you think about FIRST it is about creating the best robot that you can to preform the task that you are given while still learning with others and working together. Which is why im asking this question, Why do we have to make it simple for them to understand? I mean if the rules and game were simplied then that does not give the team any room to think outside the box. like i said before, If breakaway was such a game that the rules were "a 3 on 3 game of soccer where you score the balls and then you hang at the end" 469 wouldnt have done as well as they did. their robot did nothing more then drive around in atonomis and then park itself and score goals the rest of the match.... we wouldnt get thinkers like that if the game was simplier. just a thought.

[EricH]

Well, you do make a good point ,but i must disagree with you.... when you think about FIRST it is about creating the best robot that you can to preform the task that you are given while still learning with others and working together. Which is why im asking this question, Why do we have to make it simple for them to understand? I mean if the rules and game were simplied then that does not give the team any room to think outside the box. like i said before, If breakaway was such a game that the rules were "a 3 on 3 game of soccer where you score the balls and then you hang at the end" 469 wouldnt have done as well as they did. their robot did nothing more then drive around in atonomis and then park itself and score goals the rest of the match.... we wouldnt get thinkers like that if the game was simplier. just a thought.
You're confusing AUDIENCE simplicity with PARTICIPANT simplicity.

The BEST games are ones that are simple for the audience to understand (3-on-3 game of soccer, hang at the end, goals come back to the middle) but the participants can wow everyone with the "cool/awesome factor" (469, 51, 125 as they redirected--but especially 469). The main way to confuse the audience was the 6v0 that the ranking system encouraged a bit.

Or, to take another example, I'll go to 2002. The game was simple: move three goals, filled as full of soccer balls as possible, into a particular zone of the field (of the 5 zones), then put some part of your robot into a particular non-adjacent zone. There are two legends from that year: FRC71, who raced out to the goals, grabbed all three, and crawled into the proper zone using filecards, and FRC60, who grabbed two goals, got into the zone, lifted them up (you've got to understand, these goals are 30# heavier than even today's robots are while on the field, which have a good 20# on the robots back then), and spun them in a circle whenever someone tried to push a goal.

It's games like that that we need: 30 seconds to explain the basics to some random person off the street, 6 weeks+ championship to show just how innovatively you think to everybody, participant or spectator.

[roboticsgoof95]

You're confusing AUDIENCE simplicity with PARTICIPANT simplicity.

The BEST games are ones that are simple for the audience to understand (3-on-3 game of soccer, hang at the end, goals come back to the middle) but the participants can wow everyone with the "cool/awesome factor" (469, 51, 125 as they redirected--but especially 469). The main way to confuse the audience was the 6v0 that the ranking system encouraged a bit.

Or, to take another example, I'll go to 2002. The game was simple: move three goals, filled as full of soccer balls as possible, into a particular zone of the field (of the 5 zones), then put some part of your robot into a particular non-adjacent zone. There are two legends from that year: FRC71, who raced out to the goals, grabbed all three, and crawled into the proper zone using filecards, and FRC60, who grabbed two goals, got into the zone, lifted them up (you've got to understand, these goals are 30# heavier than even today's robots are while on the field, which have a good 20# on the robots back then), and spun them in a circle whenever someone tried to push a goal.

It's games like that that we need: 30 seconds to explain the basics to some random person off the street, 6 weeks+ championship to show just how innovatively you think to everybody, participant or spectator.

How hard was it to explain the last games such as logomotion? because i sure didnt have a hard time explaining it... i mean even when they showed it on the news paul didnt have a hard time explaining it to the public...

[EricH]

How hard was it to explain the last games such as logomotion? because i sure didnt have a hard time explaining it... i mean even when they showed it on the news paul didnt have a hard time explaining it to the public...
Logomotion wasn't that hard. But trying to explain Triple Play (3D tictactoe where every piece scored counts) could take up to a minute if you included the (seldom used) endgame (and trust me, that short description is missing the vision tetras, the rows, and the pieces under the goals); Lunacy's best description would be something like "you're playing basketball on an ice rink where the baskets are on the backs of your opponents, and the bench is shooting too, and at the end there are some moneyballs that have to be activated and scored"; 2004's FIRST Frenzy was a bit tough due to having three separate scoring objectives (dodgeballs, of which there were two values and four places to score, exercise balls used to double the score of the dodgeballs, and hanging your robot on the bar) and having certain things dependent on a time trigger.

A good game should be able to be explained in a short time to the point where it can be followed (preferably without the announcer--half the time, your remote audience isn't going to be seeing what he's looking at), but the awesomeness of the engineering and strategies will continually amaze competitors and unaffiliated spectators alike.

[Walter Deitzler]

Are you sure about that?

And, something I've been wanting to say for a while: This whole thread is pointless, as the GDC is already working on the 2013 game. Therefore, we should be discussing the 2014 game.

Water Game in 2014?

[roboticsgoof95]

Logomotion wasn't that hard. But trying to explain Triple Play (3D tictactoe where every piece scored counts) could take up to a minute if you included the (seldom used) endgame (and trust me, that short description is missing the vision tetras, the rows, and the pieces under the goals); Lunacy's best description would be something like "you're playing basketball on an ice rink where the baskets are on the backs of your opponents, and the bench is shooting too, and at the end there are some moneyballs that have to be activated and scored"; 2004's FIRST Frenzy was a bit tough due to having three separate scoring objectives (dodgeballs, of which there were two values and four places to score, exercise balls used to double the score of the dodgeballs, and hanging your robot on the bar) and having certain things dependent on a time trigger.

A good game should be able to be explained in a short time to the point where it can be followed (preferably without the announcer--half the time, your remote audience isn't going to be seeing what he's looking at), but the awesomeness of the engineering and strategies will continually amaze competitors and unaffiliated spectators alike.

well you really dont have to go into full detail.. i mean once you get them listening have them just watch the game.

[JohnFogarty]

water game? hahaa no. don't even go there.

[roboticsgoof95]

water game? hahaa no. don't even go there.

It would be intense!!

[DSM33]

A good game should be able to be explained in a short time to the point where it can be followed (preferably without the announcer--half the time, your remote audience isn't going to be seeing what he's looking at), but the awesomeness of the engineering and strategies will continually amaze competitors and unaffiliated spectators alike.

A successful game that will transform FIRST into the sport that it wants to be would be able to be followed and somewhat understood without any full detailed description at all.

2010: watch one match and you understand. soccer balling into the goal for 1 point, balls return to the center, hang at the end for 2 points.
2011: score uber tubes that are worth their own set of points but also double the tube in front of it, top row is worth most points and then bottom row is worth the least, FIRST logo (that shape thing that pops up every now and then) needs to be made to add more points to the score, smaller robots are launched up poles at the end.

see how much longer it took to explain? also the scoring needs to be able to be easily followed by the audience so that people who missed the initial explanation at the beginning of the broadcast can still pick up the game.

2010: ball scored = 1 point. hanging = 2 points. (and then 3 points for double hang off a bot but that rarely happened)
2011: 3 points for top, 2 for middle, 1 for low. FIRST logo double the entire row. uber tubes double the point value of tube on top of it (not to mention the double double of a logo with ubertubes under it) minibots are launched for between 30 and 10 points (big area of points).

How hard was it to explain the last games such as logomotion? because i sure didnt have a hard time explaining it... i mean even when they showed it on the news paul didnt have a hard time explaining it to the public...
while paul didnt have a hard time explaining the game to the audience he also had to go more in depth during the matches, saying things like "oh that's a penalty" or "that minibot launched a bit too early" this adds a whole new aspect to understanding the game. the penalties. this all complicates the public understanding the game. A huge disadvantage that we have is that our game changes every year. Football, basketball, hockey, and baseball have (somewhat) consistent rules that stay the same every year. 2010 was a relatively penalty free game with a few simple penalties (except hitting tipped bots, hitting hangers, 2 defenders). again, easy to follow.

TL;DR
FIRST needs simple, easy to follow games that can be explained quickly but can also be understood by a passerby that doesn't hear a detailed explanation. simple scoring, few penalties, etc.

[Walter Deitzler]

It would be intense!!

I might as well put it out there now.

2013-Water Game
2014-Water Game
2015-Water Game
2016-Water Game

Need I go further?

There will be predictions of a water game every year until it actually happens.

And yes, it would be VERY intense. :D

[MagiChau]

I might as well put it out there now.

2013-Water Game
2014-Water Game
2015-Water Game
2016-Water Game

Need I go further?

There will be predictions of a water game every year until it actually happens.

And yes, it would be VERY intense. :D

Just to spite everyone they will drop hints as official hints and at kickoff for a water game and reveal its not.

[GCentola]

I might as well put it out there now.

2013-Water Game
2014-Water Game
2015-Water Game
2016-Water Game

Need I go further?

There will be predictions of a water game every year until it actually happens.


Well, there you go ruining our fun! :P besides, now that you listed up to 2016 (not the Might Monkey Wrenches 2016), the water game will happen in 2017!

[Walter Deitzler]

Well, there you go ruining our fun! :P besides, now that you listed up to 2016 (not the Might Monkey Wrenches 2016), the water game will happen in 2017!


2017-FLYING GAME! :eek:

I though maybe I should spice it up a little. :p

[GCentola]

2017-FLYING GAME! :eek:


Then we can finally add those rocket boosters! A flying game might help in accomplishing the decrease of defense!

[Walter Deitzler]

Then we can finally add those rocket boosters! A flying game might help in accomplishing the decrease of defense!

It would be like lunacy, but with even more crashes (and much more destruction :D)

[Bjenks548]

I really hope they don't wait so long to give us a game hint again this year. Last year was rough waiting till Christmas week for one. I think they should give us a really really vague one now.

[Robert Cawthon]

The robots are just a vehicle--you could do just about any STEM mentor-based program with the same effect. The culture transformation needed is accomplished by getting more people involved with the program. If people are not attracted to the program, they will not get involved. Therefore, we do need to make the games attractive. Part of that is making it so that they are easy to understand, which involves making them simple. The simpler, the better--to a point, as you do need to keep the existing teams challenged.

Thank you, Eric. Couldn't have said it better myself. Remember, our main point is not to build robots, but to build kids. If the younger kids come to a game, they are more likely to become interested if they understand the game. More kids, more opportunities.

[roboticsgoof95]

Thank you, Eric. Couldn't have said it better myself. Remember, our main point is not to build robots, but to build kids. If the younger kids come to a game, they are more likely to become interested if they understand the game. More kids, more opportunities.

Im not saying make it completely difficult to explain, i understand what first is about but i guess it all just depends on how well you are at explaining the game. i love a challenging game, FIRST should be wanting more students to not only join, but when they arein FIRST to push for more. Am i right?

[EricH]

Im not saying make it completely difficult to explain, i understand what first is about but i guess it all just depends on how well you are at explaining the game. i love a challenging game, FIRST should be wanting more students to not only join, but when they arein FIRST to push for more. Am i right?
We want the game to be a challenge to build a robot to play (pushing for more) but simple to understand (more students joining).

Finding that balance... well, it's not exactly easy.

[roboticsgoof95]

We want the game to be a challenge to build a robot to play (pushing for more) but simple to understand (more students joining).

Finding that balance... well, it's not exactly easy.

Im just trying to show that the game cant be too easy.

[EricH]

Im just trying to show that the game cant be too easy.
You're right. But, you can't make it too difficult, either.

[jjp]

Last season was my first in FRC, and although i was only previously involved in FIRST i have noticed a pattern in tubes, large balls, balls with air pockets(lunacy), and soccer balls. I have and odd feeling that next year may be giant balls, perhaps a more sport oriented game. The main joke with me was an underwater game, but that, (far down the road!) may happen as well.

[lemiant]

Im just trying to show that the game cant be too easy.

You're missing the point. Simple is not equal to easy, they are two different factors. For example the game "go" has only a handful of rules, but takes years to master.

[roboticsgoof95]

well, you are right.

[Walter Deitzler]

Today someone posted a thread about how 2012 will be the 40th anniversery of Ed Catmull making a 3D render of a hand. Ed went on to found Pixar. What if the game has to with something like this?

The thread is here
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=97208

[Samk]

It's really interesting how everyone is suspecting a minibot portion in next years game. I know Dean is trying to bring together all 4 parts of FIRST, but as someone mentioned before, maybe only LEGO parts could be used this time. I think it would add an interesting competition if there's a minibot but only LEGO parts could be used since many FRC members have come out from FLL.
I doubt the use of legos, unless glued together they would fall apart in the FRC competitions, remember the "baby on the highway" minibots? Think about a bunch of legos exploding on a field. That being said, I do think minibots will return, I just hope we have less strict motor regulations.

[EricH]

I doubt the use of legos, unless glued together they would fall apart in the FRC competitions, remember the "baby on the highway" minibots? Think about a bunch of legos exploding on a field. That being said, I do think minibots will return, I just hope we have less strict motor regulations.
Properly put together, LEGOs will take a pretty good beating. Use the Technic pieces and joints, though. And maybe some adhesive here and there.

[rozer.ben0]

as i would know that their is a game Ice Hockey - Women World Championship which starts from 7th April 2012 and ends on 14th April 2012 i think you would like to watch it so enjoy your 2012 game and also like to tell you that it is for short period of time

[lemiant]

reported ^

[Paul62626]

Anyone think of something oppisite of regolith? something with high traction. so the game is more solid in defence?

[GlassPrison142]

I feel like people would just re use their breakaway robots for a hockey game, if it actually is set up like hockey though. I wouldnt put it past the GDC though because the robot designs for the 2005 game and the 2007 were similar.

And if they were to re use minibots, how could they incorporate that with hockey? :confused:

[Travis Hoffman]

I feel like people would just re use their breakaway robots for a hockey game, if it actually is set up like hockey though. I wouldnt put it past the GDC though because the robot designs for the 2005 game and the 2007 were similar.

And if they were to re use minibots, how could they incorporate that with hockey? :confused:

Well, you need a puck, don't you? :)

[GlassPrison142]

Well, you need a puck, don't you? :)

You're probably right, thats all those stupid things are good for
I believe your team was at the Raleigh Regional this year with us as well

[Travis Hoffman]

You're probably right, thats all those stupid things are good for
I believe your team was at the Raleigh Regional this year with us as well

Yup, we were at Raleigh.

Let's say your alliance minibots are the other alliance's scoring pucks. Program them to evade the big robots - self-preservation mode.

Gee folks, wouldn't that be fun? I forget - was duct tape a legal minibot part last year?

[EricH]

Yup, we were at Raleigh.

Let's say your alliance minibots are the other alliance's scoring pucks. Program them to evade the big robots - self-preservation mode.

Gee folks, wouldn't that be fun? I forget - was duct tape a legal minibot part last year?
Sadly, no...

But the real puck would be those Tetrix motors. 1 of those worth the same as a minibot, except that you put about 5x as many out there...so the minibot is 5x more, plus a per-motor point bonus.

[Travis Hoffman]

Sadly, no...

But the real puck would be those Tetrix motors. 1 of those worth the same as a minibot, except that you put about 5x as many out there...so the minibot is 5x more, plus a per-motor point bonus.

Don't forget unused Tetrix motor gearboxes.

[Robert Cawthon]

Well, you need a puck, don't you? :)

We need a like button on this like we have of facebook. Love the comment.

[GlassPrison142]

I bet this has already been said before, but I guess for the minibots it could be a cool idea

Like to release Minibots into a certain area of the field that the main robot can't get to, that would unlock some sort of other game piece or part of the field that would work to your advantage greatly. Or have a minibot crawl in a passage to hit something again, but horizontal and on the ground? Idk just some ideas. I don't know if the GDC would use minibots right after this year though. I hope not. Our attempt at making one was just catastrophic.

[Macdaddy549]

The mini bot was way to expensive and time consuming. We went through several motors and several teams had said the same to me this summer.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Please no more minibots! At least not for a while. Not only were they time and money consuming, but they got old and repetitive really fast, and ensured a win if used in a regional. Plus, I like to have a new endgame each year.

[Walter Deitzler]

I would like to see minibots again, but maybe worth not as many points.

I do like the idea of using minibots as pucks for a hockey game. "There's the minibot, lets get it!" *Thawk* :p

[Andrew Lawrence]

I do like the idea of using minibots as pucks for a hockey game. "There's the minibot, lets get it!" *Thawk* :p

Funny story. That's sorta what happened to us at SVR. Someone hit us hard enough for one of our minibots to fall off, and each team, including our alliance members, seemed to take turns running it over. None on purpose, but it seemed that each robot got close enough to hit it. In fact, one of our neodymium magnets is still stick to a robot that ran it over! :yikes:

[EricH]

The mini bot was way to expensive and time consuming. We went through several motors and several teams had said the same to me this summer.
That's partly a function of requiring a single motor type that wasn't quite up to the task before teams figured out how to deal with that. I bet if they'd given the option of 2 Tetrix or a single Banebots-type motor, there would have been quite a few teams using the BB--and a lot fewer problems.

The minibot itself should return. Just not the motors from this year.

[vic burg]

I think a new endgame would be cool. Maybe not minibots but some the robot deploys just in general. Climbing ramps at the end would be nice again. I think the last one of that (when we had to climb each other, too) was..... Aim High?

[EricH]

I think a new endgame would be cool. Maybe not minibots but some the robot deploys just in general. Climbing ramps at the end would be nice again. I think the last one of that (when we had to climb each other, too) was..... Aim High?
Not counting the bumps and tower hangs in 2010, that would be 2007's Rack n' Roll (other robots) or 2006 (Aim High, the ramps under the goals). Beyond that, there's the hanging bars from 2004 (and 2000), the zones to be in (2005, 2002, 2001), and the ramp to be on top of (2003).

[GlassPrison142]

Even though our mentor has us building an A frame arm prototype before build season, I really think this year is going to be a shooting game. The last one they did was Aim High. (Lunacy doesnt really count as a shooting, that was more like throwing up) I really don't think they'll do an arm type game two years in a row, but we'll see wont we?

[vic burg]

Not counting the bumps and tower hangs in 2010, that would be 2007's Rack n' Roll (other robots) or 2006 (Aim High, the ramps under the goals). Beyond that, there's the hanging bars from 2004 (and 2000), the zones to be in (2005, 2002, 2001), and the ramp to be on top of (2003).

Ah! I forgot about the hanging on the bars in 2010! The years kind of blend together after awhile..... lol. The hanging bars were fun. I liked 2004's better than 2010's (I didn't play in either game though, as I was on a team between that time.).
I liked the climbing of other bots. It was a challenge for some.

[Tetraman]

I'd like to see more of that Robot-to-Robot interaction for the end game, specifically where your robot needs to have specific designs to allow it. 2007's end game might have been the coolest end game of all time - specifically the robots that actually lifted their teammates.

More A-Bombs in FIRST will really bring out the teamwork and heighten the excitement of elimination games.

[KevinGoneNuts]

I don't know if this has been posted or not, but I think it would be cool to see a game where you had to score on a robot that moved autonomously on the field. Kind of like lunacy, but with a robot that ran around the field purposely avoiding the other robots..

I can't even imagine the amount of work that would take on FIRST's part, but none the less, I think it would be cool.

[EricH]

I don't know if this has been posted or not, but I think it would be cool to see a game where you had to score on a robot that moved autonomously on the field. Kind of like lunacy, but with a robot that ran around the field purposely avoiding the other robots..

I can't even imagine the amount of work that would take on FIRST's part, but none the less, I think it would be cool.
The Placebo (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39910) robot returns, eh? That would be interesting...

[Tetraman]

I don't know if this has been posted or not, but I think it would be cool to see a game where you had to score on a robot that moved autonomously on the field. Kind of like lunacy, but with a robot that ran around the field purposely avoiding the other robots..

I can't even imagine the amount of work that would take on FIRST's part, but none the less, I think it would be cool.

Or (and this is really going out there) there would be two robots that are exactly the same and simply boxes with wheels. One is Red, the other is Blue. The "human players" of each alliance become a "Robotics Team", and control these "Normal Bots", and the game becomes 4v4.

[279 EMPIE]

I think it would be cool if they did a robot bowling game and base the rules on bowling rules. It would be intresting what teams would do to play. =D

[DSM33]

I think it would be cool if they did a robot bowling game and base the rules on bowling rules. It would be intresting what teams would do to play. =D

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/2011-2012-game-info :)

[279 EMPIE]

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/2011-2012-game-info :)

oh lol i did know that :)

altho i ment for FRC and like an actuall bowling game with wooden lanes and oil.

[EricH]

oh lol i did know that :)

altho i ment for FRC and like an actuall bowling game with wooden lanes and oil.
Overdrive... Those trackballs were pretty close to bowling balls.

[ratdude747]

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/2011-2012-game-info :)

sounds like there may be a lot of broken bots and plastic crates... the bowling ball do damage, esp. if one falls off the one of the corner ramps.

[DSM33]

Overdrive... Those trackballs were pretty close to bowling balls.

and the humans and robots were the pins :D
i feel like adding oil to the playing field would end in disaster. like regolith but way, waaaaaaaaaaay worse

[Ozomalti]

Well there does indeed seem to be a pattern of sport then non-sport competitions. That would make this game a sport. 2012 is also the 100th anniversary of Major League Baseball. possiblity? i think so.

[Robert Cawthon]

I think it would be cool if they did a robot bowling game and base the rules on bowling rules. It would be intresting what teams would do to play. =D

A new use for the minibots. Use them as bowling balls. Turn them on and let them fly!

[279 EMPIE]

A new use for the minibots. Use them as bowling balls. Turn them on and let them fly!

They would have to be some strong mini bots but it would give us a way controlling the mini bot directions with dots on the floor.

[HannahF]

A new use for the minibots. Use them as bowling balls. Turn them on and let them fly!

http://xkcd.com/413/ this could be the new minibot design :D

[Kusha]

I don't know if this has been posted or not, but I think it would be cool to see a game where you had to score on a robot that moved autonomously on the field. Kind of like lunacy, but with a robot that ran around the field purposely avoiding the other robots..

I can't even imagine the amount of work that would take on FIRST's part, but none the less, I think it would be cool.

I like this idea.

It seems like lunacy without the crazy floors

[Walter Deitzler]

For the last two years, FTC has had games that have had pieces with magnets in them, and FIRST is trying to bring all of the levels of FIRST together (as stated at kickoff last year).

What if the minibots have to do with finding special magnets pieces? It would be an interesting idea.

[Andrew Lawrence]

For the last two years, FTC has had games that have had pieces with magnets in them, and FIRST is trying to bring all of the levels of FIRST together (as stated at kickoff last year).

What if the minibots have to do with finding special magnets pieces? It would be an interesting idea.

I don't think magnets are a good idea for FRC (aside from keeping minibots on the pole). If a strong magnet gets near our electrical, it may not go so well for the robot. We do need our code! :)

[Grim Tuesday]

Something that would be interesting is:

-No Human Player

-Human Player is a robocoach once again (2008), however, they control the minibot. The minibot and robot perform seperate and distinct tasks, until the endgame, where they have to meet, and performs some sort of transfer.

idk, would be interesting, and would support the stated goals of the minibot returning, and making it more interesting throughout the entire match (unstated goal).

[CalTran]

Something that would be interesting is:
-Human Player is a robocoach once again (2008), however, they control the minibot.


That would be quite interesting. What would the control system be for that? Would it be something as simple as a VEX Signal Splitter and RC controller or something on par with the wireless controls of the FRC bots? Either way, that would make for quite interesting competition.

PS That seems like Inception Robotics. Mini-robotics competition within a match of a FRC competition... =D

[Brandon Zalinsky]

and the humans and robots were the pins :D
i feel like adding oil to the playing field would end in disaster. like regolith but way, waaaaaaaaaaay worse

the first year that there ISN'T a competition for human player.

[JosephC]

PS That seems like Inception Robotics. Mini-robotics competition within a match of a FRC competition... =D

Sounds like OCCRA, we have a separate field for tiny little VEX robots. In retrospect this is probably a good thing, considering the "big bots" weigh 10x more and go 10x faster :rolleyes:

[KevinGoneNuts]

Something that would be interesting is:

-No Human Player

-Human Player is a robocoach once again (2008), however, they control the minibot. The minibot and robot perform seperate and distinct tasks, until the endgame, where they have to meet, and performs some sort of transfer.

idk, would be interesting, and would support the stated goals of the minibot returning, and making it more interesting throughout the entire match (unstated goal).

What if there was a FTC sized field in the middle of the FRC field and the minibots had to do some task like inside the field?

[Robert Cawthon]

What if there was a FTC sized field in the middle of the FRC field and the minibots had to do some task like inside the field?

Or two smaller fields, one at each end of the FRC field? Make it easier for the "mini-bot driver" to see whats going on and it would leave the middle of the FRC field open for the big bots.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Or two smaller fields, one at each end of the FRC field? Make it easier for the "mini-bot driver" to see whats going on and it would leave the middle of the FRC field open for the big bots.

Or put your minibot field on the other side of the main field ... and let the teams figure out how to see their minibots.

I would forsee some inventive uses for a robots onboard camera ;)

[Brandon Zalinsky]

In all seriousness, I think the minibots should be relegated to simple tasks. Logomotion was a bad enough spectator game as it was, more complication with minibots would just make it worse. Breakaway was a great spectator game, and it (obviously) did not include minibots. It was a great spectator game not necessarily because of the lack of minibots, but for the lack of complication. It was, quite simply, soccer with robots! A person could walk into a regional and immediately understand what was happening. Logomotion, not so much.

[Zuelu562]

(Breakaway) was a great spectator game not necessarily because of the lack of minibots, but for the lack of complication.

I think that's the direction the GDC kind of wants to go from the hints they dropped earlier in the year right after Champs. Instead of finishing the current year game less than weeks before kickoff, they may or may not have games planned out years ahead, and something tells me part of this is due simplifying the game. I don't remember any exact quotes, but I remember reading something to that effect.

If you make the concept simple so that spectators (and by extension, new team members) can understand the game with one phrase (I distinctly remember saying "robot soccer" during the 2010 build season over 9000 times), but make the intricacies of the actual gameplay interesting, I believe that's the secret to a successful FRC game.

[dadakota]

There's always Bill's Blog...anyone up for Haagen-Dazs?

Edit: Eric is sneaky. My Haagen-Dazs comment still stands.

How would one get to bills blog?

[HannahF]

How would one get to bills blog?

This is Bill's Blog (http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/). It is a great source of information from the Director of FRC, Bill Miller. He usually updates it at least once a week with things that are happening with FRC, especially game design (like unoffical game hints).

Someone will also usually post a thread on chiefdelphi with the notation [BB] at the beginning for Bill's blog, about important blog entries such as this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=97507), so you can often find the information here if you do not remember the blog's url or just find it easier to check chiefdelphi.

~Hannah

[Pamelot2067]

Has anyone else looked into Mayan games? Look at Pok-a-tok.

It was a combination of Soccer, Basketball, Racquetball, and Volleyball. It was played with a six inch rubber ball and a hoop which was placed vertically, could barely fit the ball in it and was placed twenty to thirty feet above the ground. The object was not only to get the ball in the hoop but to also keep the ball in motion. They did this with any part of their body except their hands.

Remember they have already finish this years game. and are already working on 2013. considering that they always base the game off of somthing signifigant for the corresponding year, isnt 2012 a theoetical end of world senario a big enough deal to be the theme? just sayin, give it some thought.

Pam And Trevor from Apple Pi Robotics 2067

[Taylor]

considering that they always base the game off of somthing signifigant for the corresponding year

Where did you get this information? It only holds true for 2009, 2010, and 2011. It's certainly a recent trend, but I wouldn't say always. That's the same reasoning that leads us into the circle-triangle-square gamepiece cycle that really doesn't exist.

[thefro526]

I think that's the direction the GDC kind of wants to go from the hints they dropped earlier in the year right after Champs. Instead of finishing the current year game less than weeks before kickoff, they may or may not have games planned out years ahead, and something tells me part of this is due simplifying the game. I don't remember any exact quotes, but I remember reading something to that effect.



My understanding of this was that the GDC was hoping to finish the games a year early so that they had a year to work out the kinks of the game. In a perfect world, this would lead to more available game pieces (gives enough time to create an appropriate supply chain), a better rule book (you really shouldn't need to send an update out a week after kick-off), and a more spectator friendly game.

[mesamb1]

Where did you get this information? It only holds true for 2009, 2010, and 2011. It's certainly a recent trend, but I wouldn't say always. That's the same reasoning that leads us into the circle-triangle-square gamepiece cycle that really doesn't exist.

Just like the balls every other year cycle?

You can add 2008 to that year list(nascar), but I think that the idea it will relate to an event for that year connects to being able to explain it to non-FIRSTers(based on earlier post). A game based on soccer or traversing the moon is far simpler to explain to people then for example Rack-n-Roll where the whole ramp, moving rack, spoilers, and vertically and horizontally aligned game pieces made the game more difficult to explain to an outsider what they were seeing.

[om23]

Well since we know that there will be Kinect involved...
the possibilities are endless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlgA2nlXUF8

[Walter Deitzler]

A sneak peek at the KOP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlgA2nlXUF8

I know someone earlier in this thread posted something about dancing robots, and I think that they might not be so far from the truth. The kinect could be used to take your dance moves, and get the robot the copy your actions, making a dancing game an actual possibility.I am not sure how it would be scored, but it would be fun (and interesting).

[Zuelu562]

Or it's another control option that FIRST is embracing. Last year there were multiple Q&A Questions regarding the Kinect Sensor and it's legality for a control system (to which, the answer was "No" due to the Lasers in the Kinect Sensor, IIRC).

I would start actively looking for hints after American Thanksgiving (have to differentiate, there are multiple holidays in the World called "Thanksgiving").

Now, to make sure that the head mentor doesn't steal the Kinect after the season ends if we actually use it. >.>

[Robert Cawthon]

Well since we know that there will be Kinect involved...
the possibilities are endless.

How about a moving target in autonomous? Maybe one that is stationary along the X-Y plane, but moves along the Z axis? :D

[plnyyanks]

How about a moving target in autonomous? Maybe one that is stationary along the X-Y plane, but moves along the Z axis? :D
Possible, but FIRST has stated that the Kinect will only be used for operating the robot (however they won't prohibit you from putting it on the robot)

Q: Can I put the Kinect on my robot to detect other robots or field elements?

While the focus for Kinect in 2012 is at the operator level, as described above, there are no plans to prohibit teams from implementing the Kinect sensor on the robot.


http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kinect

And it also looks like it will have some autonomous usages.

During the autonomous period team members will be able to provide some guidance to one (of the three on a team) robot by moving their bodies. Gestures of various types either from sample code that will be supplied or custom code developed by team members will be used to give direction and activity for a robot.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/alfredth/archive/2011/10/07/be-the-robot.aspx

But you never know what someone will come up with....

[BlacksmithWoods]

FIRST has been hinting toward the fact that the Xbox Kinect will be in the KOP this year. I'm expecting tracking some targets, or huge involvement between the human player, driver, and the robot. If you want to check any of the stuff out, I'll provide the links.
Youtube -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlgA2nlXUF8
FIRST -- http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kinect

Looking Forward to a great Build Season! :D

[pandamonium]

The blog post telling us that one of the three human players will operate it in autonomous mode actually tells us a lot about this years game. We can make inferences here that the other 2 human players will be distributing game pieces. Knowing that the games often involve symmetry we can start to limit what the lay out this year will be. I know this isn't a huge deal but it is a lot more than we knew about the game a month ago...

[Steven Donow]

The blog post telling us that one of the three human players will operate it in autonomous mode actually tells us a lot about this years game. We can make inferences here that the other 2 human players will be distributing game pieces. Knowing that the games often involve symmetry we can start to limit what the lay out this year will be. I know this isn't a huge deal but it is a lot more than we knew about the game a month ago...

I'm not necessarily sure that's what it's implying. I think it's just a matter of the way it's worded that gives off the idea that only one robot gets operated in autonomous.

[527's_Spy]

with the kinect now as an element of gameplay, does anyone think it may have any relation with minibots (besides its main use for operating the robot as of right now) if they come back this year? :confused:

[Brandon Zalinsky]

with the kinect now as an element of gameplay, does anyone think it may have any relation with minibots (besides its main use for operating the robot as of right now) if they come back this year? :confused:

I think it would be cool if the minibots had to track a moving target with the kinect... Though I am one of the few people that's against the general use of minibots in future competitions...

[Phyrxes]

Based on the 2011 rulebook wouldn't the use of a Kinnect require a rules change or at least an exception regarding robot sensors and lasers?

[Andrew Lawrence]

So far the most logical and practical use of the kinect is control via 1 human player during autonomous period, and the other 2 human players do something with game pieces. But then again, when has FIRST actually been logical and practical? :rolleyes:

[rhf323]

Well if you take into the account that we are getting a smaller Crio and a Kinect this year I think that the robots will have to be smaller and since the kinect has a crap ton of sensors on it (does it use ultrasonic i am not sure) it will involve Robots tracking multiply robots at the same time ( the Kinect can track up to 1 million different "joints" or points) So i am thinkg a robot with a turret but knowing first there will be a twist that no one will think of.

[austin1743]

Since we know the kinect is going to be in the kop, does anyone have any experience in using the kinect? I know there are a lot of possibilities for this use of this sensor.

The only question I have about it is: Which programming language would be the ideal program the kinect in?

[Phyrxes]

I remember my software team saying that the Microsoft SDK for it was C Sharp, but I'm not sure what other options exist.

[thefro526]

Based on the 2011 rulebook wouldn't the use of a Kinnect require a rules change or at least an exception regarding robot sensors and lasers?

It would depend on the implementation of the Kinect. Odds are, the Kinect will not be robot mounted because of interference reasons.

Personally, I think we'll see the return of a 2008 like hybrid mode. Mount 3 Kinects in the Drivers station, one at either end and a third in the center, and one of your team members will be responsible for sending commands to your robot during a semi-autonomous period via the Kinect.

I'd really like to see a game with 10 seconds of normal autonomous, 120 seconds of tele-op gameplay and another 10 seconds of kinect hybrid mode. This would work really well if the end game objective were something like climbing a ramp or navigating to a predetermined position.

[Phyrxes]

I agree I fully expect some sort of Hybrid mode using the Kinnect. Hopefully it turns out better than the IR one, how does a Kinnect deal with area style lighting? Does it even care?

[Jared Russell]

I agree I fully expect some sort of Hybrid mode using the Kinnect. Hopefully it turns out better than the IR one, how does a Kinnect deal with area style lighting? Does it even care?

Our testing with the Kinect shows that it performs well in a wide variety of lighting conditions, as long as it's not direct sunlight. For skeleton tracking, the infrared "range" sensor is used - which has its own emitter and is thus pretty robust to lighting.

[Mike Marandola]

I agree I fully expect some sort of Hybrid mode using the Kinnect. Hopefully it turns out better than the IR one, how does a Kinnect deal with area style lighting? Does it even care?
I just hope it's not another racing game, that was quite boring.

[joek]

I just hope it's not another racing game, that was quite boring.

i hope it is, my team would gear up the cims to mechanums, and our driver moves like lightning.

[ENIAC]

It would depend on the implementation of the Kinect. Odds are, the Kinect will not be robot mounted because of interference reasons.


Actually, I have seen people using multiple kinects on the same area at the same time. I think the laser grid is specific enough to be differentiated.

[Jared Russell]

Actually, I have seen people using multiple kinects on the same area at the same time. I think the laser grid is specific enough to be differentiated.

Your mileage can (and will) vary significantly when using multiple Kinects looking at the same area. Degradation depends a great deal on the reflectivity of the targets, and relative poses (positions and orientations) of the Kinects.

[plumbingservice]

Extremely good blog, crystal clear and useful to employ . Amongst the most excellent in the market place.::rtm::

[lemiant]

Reported

[HumblePie]

I got to thinking (dangerous, I know) that the inclusion of the Kinect hardware in the 2012 KOP might be an extension of the game theme. What if the game was modeled after a video game?

A (very) little research shows that 2012 will be the 40th anniversary of Atari's release of "Pong" (yes, I'm old enough to have owned one) and the 20th anniversary of Nintendo's release of Super Mario Kart. I could see slinging tennis balls back and forth (like "Pong") or a racing game like Super Mario. Not sure about the whole "damsel in distress" angle, though...

Remembering D.Lavery's red herring last year of the Penn tennis ball, is it possible that his parting shot to the GDC was to reveal the 2012 game piece?

Just my $0.02

[Walter Deitzler]

How about we combine a flying and water game? The robots start on a platform near the ends of the field, above the water. The point of the game is to grab the game pieces that are underwater, then go and drop them in some basket, so high up that your robot would have to fly to score!

I know that it would not be feasible, but it is a fun idea to think about. :D

[Tetraman]

How about a game that uses a floor? You can drive on it with wheels, and move things on top of a floor. Floors are perfect for adding tape lines on, so you can formulate zones and boundries. The other nice thing about floors is that their surface may be altered in color very easily.

I think the GDC should look into floors as an interesting game element.

[/sillyness]

[Astechz_Nick]

I think the last Bill's Blog Post (today) confirms that water will not be part of this year's competition and that they will use carpet. In the blog post Bill explains that they received "an entire pallet of carpet tape". He also describes this year's field as "...a heavy field to set up when all is said and done." This could mean big game pieces or obstacles,etc...Thoughts anyone?

[DavisC]

Im thinking of something like the year when each team had a trailer to pull around, thats why it seems to need more input for fitting it into the KOP also the metal for the trailers adds a lot of new weight.

[Andrew Lawrence]

I think, for the most part, we can rule out a game with water "in it".

HOWEVER, because of the many hints (probably fake, but just for fun), I think something relating to water is possible. I read on another thread that the 100th anniversary of the titanic is 2012. the 2012 disaster, ship sinking? Seems similar. Plus, the titanic was a ship, and ships are pretty heavy, and in Bill's Blog today he said the field was heavy, so just say'n.

[ENIAC]

Over in one of the joke threads, someone mentioned that 2012 has been designated the Alan Turing Centenary. That would be a good theme for a game. Infinitely long paper tapes/loops of carpet on rollers to simulate the theoretical turing machine? Seems like a likely topic, given the S and T in FIRST.

[davidthefat]

Football. Enough said.

[RB73]

Between all the water and ship related hints and the fact that 2012 is the anniversary of the titanic sinking, I wouldn't be surprised if the game involved avoiding "icebergs" or pushing "icebergs" around as a mobile obstacle.

[RB73]

So I just checked bills blog and read the new post. This passage give me some ideas.

"Plan now, how will your team handle bad weather, unexpected power outages, cold and flu season, delayed shipments and anything else that might crop up during build season?"

I think this supports the claims that it will be titanic themed. The whole bad weather and unexpected obstacles seems to hint towards icebergs.

[EricH]

So I just checked bills blog and read the new post. This passage give me some ideas.

"Plan now, how will your team handle bad weather, unexpected power outages, cold and flu season, delayed shipments and anything else that might crop up during build season?"

I think this supports the claims that it will be titanic themed. The whole bad weather and unexpected obstacles seems to hint towards icebergs.
Nope. If you remember the storms in the Northeast back in February 2003, those delayed shipping by two days (teams couldn't get to their robots). The next year, KOP snafus caused another 2-day delay.

FIRST hasn't delayed ship date/bag date since then. Weather? Just get it in the transportation device. Power out? Same. Disease strikes team members? Sorry, but the time out of the lab might do them good. Ship anyway. AndyMark hits a supplier backlog? Work through it.

In other words: Plan for build delays to happen and develop contingency plans. The robot goes in the bag on Bag Day, and not after.

[plnyyanks]

Nope. If you remember the storms in the Northeast back in February 2003, those delayed shipping by two days (teams couldn't get to their robots). The next year, KOP snafus caused another 2-day delay.


And a lot of us in the northeast got hit with a snowstorm on Halloween weekend, and parts of CT got really slammed - we lost 8 days of school. From the way things look, going to be a long and snowy winter, and Bill probably wants to get that argument out of the way early.

[Ernst]

A few more anniversaries in 2012:

1842 - Doppler Effect -> Kinect related?
1912 - Continental Drift -> Moving field parts?
1912 - X-Ray Diffraction ->Kinect related?
1942 - First nuclear reactor built -> This could be fun:D
1952 - Polio vaccine
1972 - Prozac -> Depressed Minibots?

[DSM33]

A few more anniversaries in 2012:
1972 - Prozac -> Depressed Minibots?

people depressed about more minibots? :p

I just want a unique game this year. Something more interesting and challenging than a redo of a previous year's game.

[3098callahan]

like maybe a unified game manipulator (not like the lunacy wheels of death) and then you get into some really cool designs to manipulate it to scoring points... idk how the new minibot idea would fit in[/QUOTE]



that would be awesome but it could be football and the minibot could be the football :ahh:

[Walter Deitzler]

that would be awesome but it could be football and the minibot could be the football :ahh:

I enjoy this idea :D

[ENIAC]

A few more anniversaries in 2012:

1842 - Doppler Effect -> Kinect related?
1912 - Continental Drift -> Moving field parts?
1912 - X-Ray Diffraction ->Kinect related?
1942 - First nuclear reactor built -> This could be fun:D
1952 - Polio vaccine
1972 - Prozac -> Depressed Minibots?

Combined with the Turing year, we could have something celebrating either the Dawn of Nuclear Power or the Dawn of Computing.

[buildmaster5000]

that would be awesome but it could be football and the minibot could be the football :ahh:

If there were points awarded based on the distruction of the minibot, then I am sure many teams would come up with EXCELLENT solutions, and score many points.

[Erik Huang]

Haven't some hints already been dropped at BB? Apparently there's an official list of field parts (http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/12/frc-game-hint-1.html)

Also, this year is going to be the heaviest field since they began. Bowling balls may or may not be included...

[eddie12390]

It would depend on the implementation of the Kinect. Odds are, the Kinect will not be robot mounted because of interference reasons.

I personally have used 3 Kinects in the same area for 3D imaging (playing with the Microsoft API) and just generally testing different features of the Kinect with a large number in a small area and I ran into very little issues with things like skeleton tracking.

Lighting was an issue, though. If there was not enough ambient light the skeleton would tend to do some crazy things. When one part of your body is no longer visible it sort of "guesses" and starts to seem as if you are flailing your arm around.

As for a use on the robot, I can't see it happening. They are EXTREMELY fragile. If they are used, they will definitely need to be protected.

[Ninja_Bait]

I personally have used 3 Kinects in the same area for 3D imaging (playing with the Microsoft API) and just generally testing different features of the Kinect with a large number in a small area and I ran into very little issues with things like skeleton tracking.

Lighting was an issue, though. If there was not enough ambient light the skeleton would tend to do some crazy things. When one part of your body is no longer visible it sort of "guesses" and starts to seem as if you are flailing your arm around.

As for a use on the robot, I can't see it happening. They are EXTREMELY fragile. If they are used, they will definitely need to be protected.

I believe there is also a problem with interfacing with the cRIO. IIRC, the only way to use it is with a Linux or Windows 7 computer.

[eddie12390]

I believe there is also a problem with interfacing with the cRIO. IIRC, the only way to use it is with a Linux or Windows 7 computer.

That's also true. I'm sure that with some work it could be done, though. I'd hate to be the one who has to hack up the cable in order to plug it into the cRIO, though. :yikes:

If Microsoft is backing this I'm sure they'd be willing to figure out some way for the cRIO to interface with the Kinect.

[Dragon Princess]

One Thing I've noticed is that the games take after major events in the year, Over Drive was on NASCAR's anniversary, Lunacy on the moon landing's anniversary, Break Away during the Soccer World cup, and Logomotion on Firsts anniversary. The major thing this year is the 2012 Olympics, and now with the kinect...Human player anyone?

[Ninja_Bait]

.Human player anyone?

Holy cow, the game will feature a human player! It may also feature robots!

;)

The problem with the olympics is that they play a lot of different games. We can't really play a lot of different games in 2 minutes.

[Jackladd]

We all know it's going to be a water game.

[Greg Young]

My 2012 game prediction. This includes some ideas I've been kicking around for several years. The minibots are a recent addition.

I started working on this again when thi thread began back in May. The life thing intervened in June and I shelved it until Bill's comments about pallets of field elements and the high speed counters caught my interest again.

I've tried to attach some jpegs with views of the field. The field is incomplete but if I wait until I have time to finish it May will be here again. Some of the field elements are hanging in midair, mostly because I couldn't figure out a good way to model polycarbonate as transparent.

All the polycarbonate is missing. The high goals are supported by the end walls. The low goal guard rails that are hanging in the air are supported by the end wall and side wall. The walls beside the stairs and platform are polycarbonate that extend three above the platform to avoid falling robots.

Sorry about the length of the post. I sometimes get a tad verbose.

Game Design

Philosophy:

1. Flat is boring
2. Penalties are bad.
3. Aim High was fun. The sight of a string of balls flying over the alliance station or into the stands was a thrill.
4. Minibots are a good idea. The minibot race was a little dull. It needs some twist. And even a minibot needs a (mini)brain.
5. Life may be iterative, but the universe is random.

The field:
1. Four low goals, two for each alliance. Two high goals, one for each alliance.
2. Six poles for minibots.
3. Bumps to make life interesting.
4. Steps and a platform for the end game.
5. Shooters to introduce balls into play.

Dimensions:
Since the robots will frequently not be sitting on a flat floor, the robot dimensions are defined by the bumpers. The plane formed by the top of the four bumpers is the horizontal dimension. The vertical dimension is perpendicular to the horizontal plane. The maximum robot starting configuration is 28W X 38L X 48H inches without bumpers. The bumpers are as in 2011. The bumper zone is 9 to 16 inches above the floor. The maximum minibot size is a twelve inch cube.

The bumps are one foot high. The platform is two feet high by four feet by nine feet. The steps are four inch rise and six inch run. The horizontal segments of the minibot poles are seven feet above the floor. The minibot scoring ring is 7.5 feet from the center of the field. The high point of the low goals is one foot above the floor. The center of the low goal guard ring is two feet above the floor. The center of the high goal is eight feet, nine inches above the floor. The high goal is 18 inches in diameter.

The game balls are the 7 inch poof balls from Aim High.

General rules:

Knocking an opposing alliance minibot off a pole in teleop while exceeding starting dimensions is fatal.

Your robot can go anywhere on the field that it can reach without damaging field elements.

Red robots start in the red rings, blue robots start in the blue rings.







Autonomous (15 seconds):
During the autonomous period the robots attempt to place their minibot onto one of the six minibot poles. During autonomous the robot may extend to a maximum horizontal dimension of 84 inches. There is no limit on the vertical dimension. The minibot poles are not assigned to a particular alliance and multiple minibots may be placed on a given pole. Minibots may be placed anywhere between the finish line and the shooter guard rail at the edge of the field. Any minibot placed after the end of autonomous will not be counted. The minibot game which begins during autonomous continues until the end of the match. The minibot game is worth 60 points divided as follows:

Number of minibots finishing Minibot finish place
1 2 3 4 5 6
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 60
2 22 38
3 10 30 20
4 8 18 22 12
5 6 10 20 14 10
6 5 10 15 15 10 5

Each minibot carries a RFID tag which is scanned before the match and assigned to the team whose robot carries the minibot onto the field. When a minibot triggers the finish gate on the minibot pole the field reads the RFID to assign a finish place to the team. Each minibot carries a wireless receiver. Once per second the FMS broadcasts the number of minibots that have finished and the seconds remaining in the match to the minibots.

Teleop (120 seconds):

During teleop the robots attempt to score balls in the goals at either end of the field. Balls in the low goals score one point. Balls in the high goals score two points. Balls scored into the goals are not returned to the field.

During teleop no part of the robot may extend beyond the frame perimeter except as noted in end game. Maximum robot height during teleop is 48 inches. Teams have 10 seconds after the start of teleop to return their robot to this configuration. Any robot extending beyond the frame perimeter or exceeding 48 inch height after the 10 seconds will be disabled. If a robot knocks an opposing alliance minibot off a pole while exceeding the teleop dimensions that robot will be disabled, disqualified and their alliance will receive a 60 point penalty. Don’t do it!

Balls are entered into play by the six ball shooters on the long sides of the field. Each shooter contains twenty balls at the beginning of the match for a total of 120 balls. Each ball shooter will shoot one ball onto the field during each five second interval after the start of teleop. All balls will have entered the field twenty seconds before the end of teleop. The time when the ball is introduced during a five second interval will be determined by a random number generator. The shooter mechanism sweeps through a 150 degree arc horizontally at a rate not correlated with the five second period. Both the time and angle at which the balls are introduced will be random. The initial speed of the ball will be 10 to 15 feet per second.

Any balls that leave the field during the match will be returned, if possible, to the shooter nearest the point where the ball left the field. The shooter will increase its shot rate to introduce all the balls into the field before 100 seconds into the match.

The maximum total score possible from the balls in the shooters is 240 points.

Human players:

Each team will have one human player in a designated HP zone during the match. The HP zones are the red or blue pads just outside the field. Each human player will have 5 poof balls in their alliance color. During teleop the human players may introduce the balls into the field as they wish. The balls can be thrown onto the field, into the high or low goals, or into a robot. Colored balls score double in a goal of the same color as the ball. Colored balls in a goal that is a different color do not score. Colored balls that leave the field will not be returned to the field. The maximum total score from the colored balls is 120 points.

End game:

It’s not really an end game since there is no time restriction but the scoring only comes at the end of the game. At the end of the match any robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) steps and platform counts 5 points for the blue (red) alliance. Any robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) platform counts 10 points for the blue (red) alliance. Any robot that is only in contact with a robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) platform scores 20 points for the blue (red) alliance. Any robot that is only in contact with a robot that is only in contact with a robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) platform scores 40 points for the blue (red) alliance. If an alliance can figure out how to stack three robots on the platform it is worth 70 points. The polycarbonate walls at the side of the steps and platform and the driver station wall are considered part of the platform. Note that a red robot on the blue platform scores for the blue alliance. While only in contact with the steps or platform a robot may extend to a maximum horizontal dimension of 84 inches. The maximum vertical dimension remains at 48 inches. Note that it is legal to stack two robots on the opposing platform to block the opposing high goal. I can’t think of a situation where this would be desirable, but the rules allow it.

Maximum total scores:

Minibot game: 60
Robots during teleop: 240
Human Players: 120
End game: 140

Total: 560

Maximum alliance score: 500

[roystur44]

A 30 foot long minibot pole in the shape of the St. Louis Gateway Arch would be cool. Maybe throw in a cork screw at the beginning..

Dive bomb a magnetic ball into a goal???

[CNettles11]

My 2012 game prediction. This includes some ideas I've been kicking around for several years. The minibots are a recent addition.

[Amazing game idea]

I really want the GDC to see this.

[O'Sancheski]

I really want the GDC to see this.

If you remember the weights on the shipping pallets that Bill posted on his blog, this would make you think twice about this field.

Though I would love to see something like that (actually, it would be very cool) it would be a little hard for spectators to follow and the costs for field elements would be very high.

@Greg Young,

Great CAD of the field. Love the idea.

[Ninja_Bait]

Reminds me of a gag (http://twitpic.com/3o572p) we did last year. At NYU Poly's kickoff, there was this crazy abstract model thing, and we sent it to the rest of the team at school telling them that this was the field.

Is there a big Dr. Seuss anniversary coming up?

[CNettles11]

I've got a breakthrough. The game piece was said to be a wacky waving arm flailing inflatable tube man by the GDC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtespeLin2c

[thunderbay146]

They'd better have ice hockey. It would be like the lunacy, but even more difficult, with blades on the bottom of the robot

[Ninja_Bait]

They'd better have ice hockey. It would be like the lunacy, but even more difficult, with blades on the bottom of the robot

Sounds insanely dangerous. I'd rather just get out of the FIRST system right now, before it's too late.

[Sean Raia]

Im really thinking this year will be hockey. Its an even year, which points to it being a sport... And football (as we know it) would be such a far reach for FIRST robotics.

[Parker Olson]

I'm pretty sure the game will require robots to swim laps around a pool while juggling mini-bots, and simultaneously proving Fermat's Last Theorem.

[KevinGoneNuts]

I've got a breakthrough. The game piece was said to be a wacky waving arm flailing inflatable tube man by the GDC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtespeLin2c

The sad thing is...My team seriously considered putting a wacky waving arm flailing inflatable tube man on our robot last year during practice matches. But we were buys all day so we were unable to do that...maybe 2012...:D

[Taylor]

Two goals - one on each alliance wall. Four loading stations - one in each corner. Three zones, horizontally across the field (blue side, middle, red side). Two robots in each zone - one red, one blue. Multiple smallish scoring objects - amount and size don't really matter, as long as there are lots and they're no bigger than a basketball and no smaller than a marble.

Once the game begins, the robots cannot go outside their zones. The scoring objects must go from the loading stations to the goals on the opposite side of the field, and each robot on the alliance must touch the scoring object for it to count.

Human players' roles similar to Aim High - they capture the scored objects and reintroduce them to the field through the loading stations.

[pfreivald]

Two goals - one on each alliance wall.

Some of these ideas are eerily similar to the challenge I just gave my Introduction to Robotics class this morning... (This is a Mindstorms/Tetrix-based class).

[Brandon Zalinsky]

The olympics has sycnronized swimming. Obviously this will be what the GDC will replicate for the 2012 game. Water/synchronized game, anyone?

[mdiradoorian]

Sounds cool and I like the idea, but in my opinion I don't believe GDC will create a water game.

[artK]

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/10/something-to-end-your-week.html
is a post on Bill's Blog which leads to a Youtube video showing off a few of our parts. The kicker is that he misspells "peek" as "peak". Should we be concerned with this? or is this a typo?

[xSAWxBLADEx]

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/10/something-to-end-your-week.html
is a post on Bill's Blog which leads to a Youtube video showing off a few of our parts. The kicker is that he misspells "peek" as "peak". Should we be concerned with this? or is this a typo?

"Peak" hinting at an incline of some sort and the "curtain" hinting at a relation to the video game called Portal "According to the Aperture Science Web site, Cave Johnson founded the company in 1953 for the sole purpose of making shower curtains for the U.S. military" (wikipedia.com) maybe some sort of shooting game like the 2006 game Aim High.

[Vision]

Saturday, January 7, 2012

The Saturday FRC Kickoff marks the beginning of the design and build season. Whether it’s at the NASA-televised event (http://robotics.nasa.gov/events/2011_kickoff.php) in Manchester, New Hampshire, on TheRedAlliance.com or one of the numerous "local" Kickoffs, teams have the opportunity to meet with others to compare notes, get ideas, make friends and get geared up for the exciting competition season.
www.TheRedAlliance.com (http://www.TheRedAlliance.com)

[mdiradoorian]

I believe it will be a shooter game like 2006 except instead of a basketball type game, I think that it will be a football type game.

[davidthefat]

I believe it will be a shooter game like 2006 except instead of a basketball type game, I think that it will be a football type game.

I say hockey with curling as the end game. I've heard that there were references to "heavy game pieces" in Bill's Blog. I assumed football at first, but I think hockey is a more viable option.

[Kevin Thorp]

Hockey???!! Did somebody say hockey?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3WFuXPsqgs8/Tv4_RjVU1UI/AAAAAAAAN0E/Ux1Q789eBFs/s778/Team%2525203489%252520Hockey-Bot.jpg

[Koko Ed]

Angry Robots.
Big Robots toss minibots at a wall to topple onto goals for points.
Bonus points if minibots make cute funny sounds.

[davepowers]

Angry Robots.
Big Robots toss minibots at a wall to topple onto goals for points.
Bonus points if minibots make cute funny sounds.

I can dig it, i just wasted an hour playing a game fairly similar to this, driving will be easy this year!

-D

[Andrew Lawrence]

Angry Robots.
Big Robots toss minibots at a wall to topple onto goals for points.
Bonus points if minibots make cute funny sounds.

I suspect a touch-screen interface!

[Koko Ed]

I suspect a touch-screen interface!

Anyone who makes a minibot that poots out another minibot that blows the wall apart deserves to have it displayed in the Smithsonian.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Anyone who makes a minibot that poots out another minibot that blows the wall apart deserves to have it displayed in the Smithsonian.

I spit out my milk onto the screen reading that! Good one. :D

Now off to get a new monitor... /sarcasm/

[Koko Ed]

I spit out my milk onto the screen reading that! Good one. :D

Now off to get a new monitor... /sarcasm/

My work is done.

[RedLeader342]

AMERICAN FOOTBALL

[RedLeader342]

My 2012 game prediction. This includes some ideas I've been kicking around for several years. The minibots are a recent addition.

I started working on this again when thi thread began back in May. The life thing intervened in June and I shelved it until Bill's comments about pallets of field elements and the high speed counters caught my interest again.

I've tried to attach some jpegs with views of the field. The field is incomplete but if I wait until I have time to finish it May will be here again. Some of the field elements are hanging in midair, mostly because I couldn't figure out a good way to model polycarbonate as transparent.

All the polycarbonate is missing. The high goals are supported by the end walls. The low goal guard rails that are hanging in the air are supported by the end wall and side wall. The walls beside the stairs and platform are polycarbonate that extend three above the platform to avoid falling robots.

Sorry about the length of the post. I sometimes get a tad verbose.

Game Design

Philosophy:

1. Flat is boring
2. Penalties are bad.
3. Aim High was fun. The sight of a string of balls flying over the alliance station or into the stands was a thrill.
4. Minibots are a good idea. The minibot race was a little dull. It needs some twist. And even a minibot needs a (mini)brain.
5. Life may be iterative, but the universe is random.

The field:
1. Four low goals, two for each alliance. Two high goals, one for each alliance.
2. Six poles for minibots.
3. Bumps to make life interesting.
4. Steps and a platform for the end game.
5. Shooters to introduce balls into play.

Dimensions:
Since the robots will frequently not be sitting on a flat floor, the robot dimensions are defined by the bumpers. The plane formed by the top of the four bumpers is the horizontal dimension. The vertical dimension is perpendicular to the horizontal plane. The maximum robot starting configuration is 28W X 38L X 48H inches without bumpers. The bumpers are as in 2011. The bumper zone is 9 to 16 inches above the floor. The maximum minibot size is a twelve inch cube.

The bumps are one foot high. The platform is two feet high by four feet by nine feet. The steps are four inch rise and six inch run. The horizontal segments of the minibot poles are seven feet above the floor. The minibot scoring ring is 7.5 feet from the center of the field. The high point of the low goals is one foot above the floor. The center of the low goal guard ring is two feet above the floor. The center of the high goal is eight feet, nine inches above the floor. The high goal is 18 inches in diameter.

The game balls are the 7 inch poof balls from Aim High.

General rules:

Knocking an opposing alliance minibot off a pole in teleop while exceeding starting dimensions is fatal.

Your robot can go anywhere on the field that it can reach without damaging field elements.

Red robots start in the red rings, blue robots start in the blue rings.







Autonomous (15 seconds):
During the autonomous period the robots attempt to place their minibot onto one of the six minibot poles. During autonomous the robot may extend to a maximum horizontal dimension of 84 inches. There is no limit on the vertical dimension. The minibot poles are not assigned to a particular alliance and multiple minibots may be placed on a given pole. Minibots may be placed anywhere between the finish line and the shooter guard rail at the edge of the field. Any minibot placed after the end of autonomous will not be counted. The minibot game which begins during autonomous continues until the end of the match. The minibot game is worth 60 points divided as follows:

Number of minibots finishing Minibot finish place
1 2 3 4 5 6
0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 60
2 22 38
3 10 30 20
4 8 18 22 12
5 6 10 20 14 10
6 5 10 15 15 10 5

Each minibot carries a RFID tag which is scanned before the match and assigned to the team whose robot carries the minibot onto the field. When a minibot triggers the finish gate on the minibot pole the field reads the RFID to assign a finish place to the team. Each minibot carries a wireless receiver. Once per second the FMS broadcasts the number of minibots that have finished and the seconds remaining in the match to the minibots.

Teleop (120 seconds):

During teleop the robots attempt to score balls in the goals at either end of the field. Balls in the low goals score one point. Balls in the high goals score two points. Balls scored into the goals are not returned to the field.

During teleop no part of the robot may extend beyond the frame perimeter except as noted in end game. Maximum robot height during teleop is 48 inches. Teams have 10 seconds after the start of teleop to return their robot to this configuration. Any robot extending beyond the frame perimeter or exceeding 48 inch height after the 10 seconds will be disabled. If a robot knocks an opposing alliance minibot off a pole while exceeding the teleop dimensions that robot will be disabled, disqualified and their alliance will receive a 60 point penalty. Don’t do it!

Balls are entered into play by the six ball shooters on the long sides of the field. Each shooter contains twenty balls at the beginning of the match for a total of 120 balls. Each ball shooter will shoot one ball onto the field during each five second interval after the start of teleop. All balls will have entered the field twenty seconds before the end of teleop. The time when the ball is introduced during a five second interval will be determined by a random number generator. The shooter mechanism sweeps through a 150 degree arc horizontally at a rate not correlated with the five second period. Both the time and angle at which the balls are introduced will be random. The initial speed of the ball will be 10 to 15 feet per second.

Any balls that leave the field during the match will be returned, if possible, to the shooter nearest the point where the ball left the field. The shooter will increase its shot rate to introduce all the balls into the field before 100 seconds into the match.

The maximum total score possible from the balls in the shooters is 240 points.

Human players:

Each team will have one human player in a designated HP zone during the match. The HP zones are the red or blue pads just outside the field. Each human player will have 5 poof balls in their alliance color. During teleop the human players may introduce the balls into the field as they wish. The balls can be thrown onto the field, into the high or low goals, or into a robot. Colored balls score double in a goal of the same color as the ball. Colored balls in a goal that is a different color do not score. Colored balls that leave the field will not be returned to the field. The maximum total score from the colored balls is 120 points.

End game:

It’s not really an end game since there is no time restriction but the scoring only comes at the end of the game. At the end of the match any robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) steps and platform counts 5 points for the blue (red) alliance. Any robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) platform counts 10 points for the blue (red) alliance. Any robot that is only in contact with a robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) platform scores 20 points for the blue (red) alliance. Any robot that is only in contact with a robot that is only in contact with a robot that is only in contact with the blue (red) platform scores 40 points for the blue (red) alliance. If an alliance can figure out how to stack three robots on the platform it is worth 70 points. The polycarbonate walls at the side of the steps and platform and the driver station wall are considered part of the platform. Note that a red robot on the blue platform scores for the blue alliance. While only in contact with the steps or platform a robot may extend to a maximum horizontal dimension of 84 inches. The maximum vertical dimension remains at 48 inches. Note that it is legal to stack two robots on the opposing platform to block the opposing high goal. I can’t think of a situation where this would be desirable, but the rules allow it.

Maximum total scores:

Minibot game: 60
Robots during teleop: 240
Human Players: 120
End game: 140

Total: 560

Maximum alliance score: 500

little detailed dont you think?

[takiko1996]

The answer is pool challenge :3 that just has to be the challenge. Game objects shall be floaties and minibots will be gone :D

[RedLeader342]

I think it would be to costly to do. Trying to get 4 above ground pools into the rams stadium? Come on now.. Theyre not gonna do something in water guys. They wouldnt do ice either. To hard to keep frozen unless youre in a hockey arena like palmetto regional is.

[279 EMPIE]

I keep hearing about the kinect being used possible as a controller, any ideas on how this could work. Would there be a new programming language used on the robots this year.

[davidthefat]

I keep hearing about the kinect being used possible as a controller, any ideas on how this could work. Would there be a new programming language used on the robots this year.

No new languages, but they are extending the WPILib to include wrappers for the Kinect, so you won't need to know the nitty gritty stuff. I believe that those wrappers give you the position of each appendage and the positions of each "joint".

[Brandon Zalinsky]

I think it would be to costly to do. Trying to get 4 above ground pools into the rams stadium? Come on now.. Theyre not gonna do something in water guys. They wouldnt do ice either. To hard to keep frozen unless youre in a hockey arena like palmetto regional is.

It's a joke, bro... always has been, always will be.

[Ninja_Bait]

It's a joke, bro... always has been, always will be.

No... It is... a DREAM! A dream which makes us who we are, a dream which keeps us desperately grasping at straws, a dream which keeps us all hoping for the day when we can use all the robot boat designs lurking at the backs of our brains...

[Ernst]

No... It is... a DREAM! A dream which makes us who we are, a dream which keeps us desperately grasping at straws, a dream which keeps us all hoping for the day when we can use all the robot boat designs lurking at the backs of our brains...

Now that you mention it, there really are a LOT of robot boat designs at the back of my brain. Time to bust out the isometric graphing paper.

[Hallry]

Now that you mention it, there really are a LOT of robot boat designs at the back of my brain.

As our team keeps saying, think MINIboats! :yikes:

[RedLeader342]

i didnt know it was a joke :P

[Robert Cawthon]

The answer is pool challenge :3 that just has to be the challenge. Game objects shall be floaties and minibots will be gone :D

Think of the other kind of pool, with 15 balls and a couple of sticks. And a triangular rack. ;)

[Flimsor]

Just as a note, in past years FIRST has trolled us with clues throughout the kickoff. Since this years kickoff is prerecorded we should probably expect to see different types of trolling than in past years.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Just as a note, in past years FIRST has trolled us with clues throughout the kickoff. Since this years kickoff is prerecorded we should probably expect to see different types of trolling than in past years.

Though I do agree FIRST is known for their trollery, I know that during the kickoff presentation usually has major hints on the game. Like during kickoff of 2011 (I still can't believe that's now "last year"), they brought out the game pieces, and if I've hear correctly, they had some major hints about Lunacy in the 2009 kickoff, so not everything they say is tom-foolery. The hard part is picking out what's useful information, and the things Dave Lavery puts into the conversation. :)

[Karibou]

The hard part is picking out what's useful information, and the things Dave Lavery puts into the conversation. :)

But there's no Dave this year! I wonder who we'll be trolled by this time around...

[Andrew Lawrence]

But there's no Dave this year! I wonder who we'll be trolled by this time around...

But that means....... NEW MEME! :D

Ok, not really, since Dave still trolls us, GDC member or not. Plus, even if a new person came on and started trolling away, they'd need years of training in order to troll like Lavery.

[Ernst]

But there's no Dave this year! I wonder who we'll be trolled by this time around...

Intentionally or not, Bill constantly trolls us with his blog.

Even when he legitimately warns us to prepare for inclement weather, we freak out.

[RedLeader342]

Intentionally or not, Bill constantly trolls us with his blog.

Even when he legitimately warns us to prepare for inclement weather, we freak out.
true dat

[Hallry]

Should I dare again bring up the idea of a curling game? 0.o

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/470/4708ee419960447d0ec5a7e4cb192429_l.jpg

;)

[Andrew Lawrence]

Should I dare again bring up the idea of a curling game? 0.o

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/470/4708ee419960447d0ec5a7e4cb192429_l.jpg

;)

*Shiver* Please no. I don't care if I don't get another game hint until Thursday, PLEASE no!

[ratdude747]

Should I dare again bring up the idea of a curling game? 0.o

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/470/4708ee419960447d0ec5a7e4cb192429_l.jpg

;)

sounds like a recipe for bent frames... robot rollover testing anybody?:D

[RedLeader342]

Should I dare again bring up the idea of a curling game? 0.o

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/470/4708ee419960447d0ec5a7e4cb192429_l.jpg

;)

that would be difficult to do if so....

[mdiradoorian]

I would not be happy if that was the game

[RedLeader342]

I would not be happy if that was the game

haha me either.
but it would be fun like it always is

[mdiradoorian]

haha me either.
but it would be fun like it always is

I did not say that it would not be fun just that it would be difficult to test.

[RedLeader342]

I did not say that it would not be fun just that it would be difficult to test.

it would be very very difficult.

[mdiradoorian]

it would be very very difficult.

I think we might agree on something

[RedLeader342]

I think we might agree on something

i didnt think we disagreed with you at all..

[mdiradoorian]

I know :)

[caspercollege]

i think its got to do with something to light up and or underwater game or it can be something that it do with team work or making a new years ball for next years kick off::rtm::

[mdiradoorian]

i think its got to do with something to light up and or underwater game or it can be something that it do with team work or making a new years ball for next years kick off::rtm::


There is one problem and that is why would they create a game for next years kickoff.

[EricH]

There is one problem and that is why would they create a game for next years kickoff.But they are!

Yes, I'm serious. They wrapped up the game design process for 2012 some time ago (barring minor tweaks) and began on 2013 right away. Bill has mentioned this on his blog a few times.

[plnyyanks]

This article (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120104006615/en/Inventor-Dean-Kamen-Joined-National-Luminaries-FIRST) may be of interest. (From CTFIRST's twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/ctfirst/status/154755236932751362))

[Guppy294]

Just to be the devil's advocate here, perhaps that is for a light show at World's or at the kickoff?

[RB73]

I have a feeling that the competition is going to resemble Aim High in some way, with robots shooting balls into the air. Maybe instead of goals on either side it is a bucket like thing in the middle that is ~10 ft in the air, with 2 separate sides for scoring.

[RedLeader342]

I have a feeling that the competition is going to resemble Aim High in some way, with robots shooting balls into the air. Maybe instead of goals on either side it is a bucket like thing in the middle that is ~10 ft in the air, with 2 separate sides for scoring.

me gusta
(for those who speak no spanish what soever, thats " i like ")

[Hallry]

me gusta
(for those who speak no spanish what soever, thats " i like ")

Actually, it means 'it pleases me,' there is no Spanish verb for 'like.' ::rtm::

[Christopher149]

¿Por qué estamos discutiendo gramática español? There is a game to figure out!

[James Kuszmaul]

porque, we speak English here and if your going to speak in a foreign language, do it properly (though I haven't noticed any forum rules about using English...)

Having goals 10 ft in the air sounds interesting, but presumably there would be some way to score things without having to reach that far off the ground.

[Andrew Lawrence]

porque, we speak English here and if your going to speak in a foreign language, do it properly (though I haven't noticed any forum rules about using English...)

Having goals 10 ft in the air sounds interesting, but presumably there would be some way to score things without having to reach that far off the ground.

I'd love another Aim High sort of game, for 2 reasons:
1) It's a great game with great ways of scoring
2) I get to see the cool robot 971 makes at SVR. Your team is on my "Robots to look for" list, along with a few others. :)

[RedLeader342]

Actually, it means 'it pleases me,' there is no Spanish verb for 'like.' ::rtm::

um. literally yes. but to most it means i like.
so but really. theres a game to figure out.

[Bjenks548]

Anyone else noticing all the hints to light? the "flash" updates. The "luminaries" are called out on facebook. The kinect uses a camera. I'm guessing the end game will somehow block the drivers from seeing their robots by pulling a curtain or something similar in front of them.

[Robert Cawthon]

I'm guessing the end game will somehow block the drivers from seeing their robots by pulling a curtain or something similar in front of them.

We brought that idea up last year. Interesting possibilites for an end game that way. Equally crazy would be to put the drivers all behind a curtain (or in another room) to drive the robots. ;)

[SteveGPage]

I have a feeling that the competition is going to resemble Aim High in some way, with robots shooting balls into the air. Maybe instead of goals on either side it is a bucket like thing in the middle that is ~10 ft in the air, with 2 separate sides for scoring.

I would love a game like that! A combination of Aim High, my favorite FRC game, and Hot Shot, my favorite FTC game (gee, I wonder why I would like that one! ;))!

[mdiradoorian]

I would love a game like that! A combination of Aim High, my favorite FRC game, and Hot Shot, my favorite FTC game (gee, I wonder why I would like that one! ;))!

O I don't know it seems so obvious

[Tetraman]

I expect a combination of Aim High and FIRST Frenzy.

[mdiradoorian]

What I am expecting is the unexpected (what that is I don't know).

[Gigakaiser]

Did anyone notice the use of the word "hanger" on bills blog? http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/12/thats-wrap.html
It should be spelt hangar...

[Andrew Lawrence]

Did anyone notice the use of the word "hanger" on bills blog? http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/12/thats-wrap.html
It should be spelt hangar...

For the most part, I think the GDC misspells words to mess with us. However, this find could be negligible, or the most important find ever! Let's keep watching for anything else that may back this up.

*Robots shotting poof balls at opponent's trailers while swinging from a pole they're hanging from? :)

Oh yeah, and I forgot something. I'm Andrew Lawrence, from team 256. Here's my standard for-every-new-member-of-Chief-Delphi-Welcome:


WELCOME TO CHIEF DELPHI!!!!!! :D

[Grim Tuesday]

Did anyone notice the use of the word "hanger" on bills blog? http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/12/thats-wrap.html
It should be spelt hangar...

Thats actually a fantastic find.

[Ninja_Bait]

Did anyone notice the use of the word "hanger" on bills blog? http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/12/thats-wrap.html
It should be spelt hangar...

Bringing back this idea:

for the endgame, a horizontal pole lowers to 20 feet above the field, going from alliance station to alliance station. At the 5 second mark, the floors retract and all robots not hanging on the pole fall into oblivion! And to make it more realistic, they will dig 50 foot holes beneath each field for the bots to fall into!

[LafondaOnFire]

Hello Chief Delphi! Long time lurker, first time poster.

In the spirit of hypothesizing about the 2012 game, I'd like to share my (crazy) idea I came up with for the end game.

Keeping with the trend of relating the game to world events, my theory is that the lights on the field - that have been heavily hinted - will be notable in the end game. Essentially, there will be twelve lights to represent the calendar months. As 1/12 of the match finished, a light goes out. When one light is left, this represents December, the hypothetical end of the world (Not supporting the theory, just stating it) where the field will become obstructed from the driver's views, leaving the human player to use the Kinect to control the robots for the end game. Since we would not be able to use technology to save ourselves (the human controls) we will be frantically trying to accomplish what we can before the world ends, hence, the crazy human actions required to get the robot to cooperate in the endgame via Kinect.

Yes, it's a crazy theory, but we shall see what becomes of this (or not) tomorrow.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Hello Chief Delphi! Long time lurker, first time poster.

In the spirit of hypothesizing about the 2012 game, I'd like to share my (crazy) idea I came up with for the end game.

Keeping with the trend of relating the game to world events, my theory is that the lights on the field - that have been heavily hinted - will be notable in the end game. Essentially, there will be twelve lights to represent the calendar months. As 1/12 of the match finished, a light goes out. When one light is left, this represents December, the hypothetical end of the world (Not supporting the theory, just stating it) where the field will become obstructed from the driver's views, leaving the human player to use the Kinect to control the robots for the end game. Since we would not be able to use technology to save ourselves (the human controls) we will be frantically trying to accomplish what we can before the world ends, hence, the crazy human actions required to get the robot to cooperate in the endgame via Kinect.

Yes, it's a crazy theory, but we shall see what becomes of this (or not) tomorrow.

Hi! Congrats on your first post! I'm Andrew (SuperNerd256), and you will soon get to know me for my welcomes. To show you an example:


WELCOME TO CHIEF DELPHI LAFONDAONFIRE! :D

I know you were a long time lurker before, but now you're an official lurker!

Good luck this season, and enjoy CD!

[Grim Tuesday]

Hmm, one last minute theory.

Luminaries. Flash. What flashes with lumination? Lightbulbs. What has FIRST been pushing on teams recently? LED lightbulbs. What are heavy? LED lighbulbs. What are supposedly unbreakable? LED lightbulbs. What would be an interesting gamepiece? LED lightbulbs.

[mdiradoorian]

Hmm, one last minute theory.

Luminaries. Flash. What flashes with lumination? Lightbulbs. What has FIRST been pushing on teams recently? LED lightbulbs. What are heavy? LED lighbulbs. What are supposedly unbreakable? LED lightbulbs. What would be an interesting gamepiece? LED lightbulbs.

I doubt they will have LED light bulbs as a game piece because of the fact that you won't be able to see it during the match so there is no use for it.

I believe that the game will have the word flash in it or it will constitute some aspect of speed or using the field lights as the flashing object.

Just a thought. :]

[caspercollege]

less then 12 hours to go and i cant wait to see what the game is going to be like this year i think it has to do with lighting something up or disarm something under water or above water.. or it can be a search and rescuer mission or it also could be a launch controll mission

[caspercollege]

ps this is my first time with this frc and im helping out team 1303 WYOHAZARD and the high school of kelly walsh in casper wyoming im a college student and this seems like its going to be a fun game this year and yes usfirst is already planning for next years game and i love the robotics program at casper college i hope i get to meet some of you guys in denver co in march tho and would like to have friends to make a robot together after the compations are over with... im pertty good at labview if anyone is have a problem with it just ask and i may be able to help you good luck every one i hope you all do well and i hope to see some of you guys at the denver CO regionls :D :D :] :deadhorse: ::safety: :deadhorse:

[Marc S.]

Last guess.

2006 with a twist, hopefully a hanging endgame, maybe some obstacles in the field.

[Pauline Tasci]

football is my guess. FOOTBALL with some sort of light obstacle included. FINAL ANSWER?
YES.

[RedLeader342]

Members of my team and I often joke around about how the pattern has been sport, non-sport, sport, non-sport... for a very long time, so our ideas have been: Skydiving, swimming, and gymnastics. Of course that would would be fun and impossible.

I think if they chose swimming, every electrical person would just quit.
i know our electrical people said they'd quit.
direct quote from the electrical team captain; "if this game has something to do with water.. im leaving!"

[Josh Drake]

A little birdie said something about basketballs....

[caspercollege]

ok less then 2 hours to go before kickoff any more guesses before we see the kickoff??? and let the fun beguin and everyone have fun and good luck bulding the robots this year... my last guess will be like mario kart style game ::safety:: :deadhorse:

[Duke461]

A little birdie said something about basketballs....
Might I ask how you knew this?
-duke

[davepowers]

Might I ask how you knew this?

A little birdie said something about basketballs....

-duke

Please do tell, i'm very curious.

-D

[Duke461]

Please do tell, i'm very curious.

-D

Im bumping this thread. Please respond. :]

[Grim Tuesday]

I would just like to note that the ball/not ball and the sport/not sport pattern has been held up.

[Marc S.]

Last guess.

2006 with a twist, hopefully a hanging endgame, maybe some obstacles in the field.

Well, i got 2 out of the 3.

[waialua359]

I believe those that did FRC in '06 will have huge insights to this year's challenge.
I cant see hoppers being of much use with the 3 ball limit, unless working collaboratively with another team during build season for a feeder-shooter tandem.
Personally, I liked the fact that there was no repeat of minibots of some sort. It allows teams to focus on 1 robot. :)

The biggest attribute I saw in 2006 which was the difference between an excellent robot vs. an average one: Let the robot do the aiming and not the driver.:cool:

[s.west2960]

i think its gonna be a basketball game

just sayin

[dellagd]

Now that the World Championships are over, I think it would be fun to speculate what the next game could be. Will it be something like Lunacy (Moon Landing Anniversary) or Breakaway (World Cup) or something completely out there? My personal opinion is some sort of shooter game, as games usually go in some sort of cycle (shooter, misc. hang/moving). Thoughts?

Ha. First post was right...