View Full Version : 2012 Game?
Morality
01-05-2011, 13:21
Now that the World Championships are over, I think it would be fun to speculate what the next game could be. Will it be something like Lunacy (Moon Landing Anniversary) or Breakaway (World Cup) or something completely out there? My personal opinion is some sort of shooter game, as games usually go in some sort of cycle (shooter, misc. hang/moving). Thoughts?
MagiChau
01-05-2011, 13:35
The game might get more complicated in electronic features next year if the GDC can meet their goal of finalizing the game by August. Bill acknowledges on his blog that they need to make the game much earlier so there is more time for testing e.g. make the minibot towers work week 1 as an example.
Imagine how much agonizing game hints he could deliver if that happens.
Gamewise I think one based off chemistry would be neat. Maybe 2012 honors the element Carbon. Not really sure where to go with this but its an idea.
I dunno...they've run out of mainstream sports to do.
ie. 2006 - Aim High (Basketball)
2007 - Rack 'n Roll (Not a sport)
2008 - Overdrive (NASCAR)
2009 - Lunacy (Not a sport)
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion (Not a sport)
2012 - Sport?
Discussing next year's game already?
Please save it for another month or so, otherwise Dave will make my head hurt.
Chexposito
01-05-2011, 14:32
I think one thing is for sure, guessing isn't going to do anything, we can all sit here and speculate, but by January no-one will have gotten it, not even with the game hints. There is one thing that does seem to be a sure thing, which is the minibot aspect. From what they said at the beginning of the season, at kickoff, this will be the endgame/part of the game for FIRST for a while. I think that after the season, most people actually liked the minibots/minibot race. However, I think this (http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/04/thanks-for-coming.html) alternate would have been better for actually using Tetrix control components...
in reply to the sport theme, there is still hockey and football... i would LOVE to see a hockey game with that, the possibilities are outstanding. like maybe a unified game manipulator (not like the lunacy wheels of death) and then you get into some really cool designs to manipulate it to scoring points... idk how the new minibot idea would fit in
Discussing next year's game already?
Please save it for another month or so, otherwise Dave will make my head hurt.
Sorry to break it to you man, but Dave is no longer on the GDC.
Sorry to break it to you man, but Dave is no longer on the GDC.
Oh. Oops.
I'm sure he'll entice most of us with a red/blue/yellow/green/purple/teal/white/orange/grey/brown/red-purple/and the list goes on.... herring when Chief Delphi forget he's not at GDC at some point.
Sorry to break it to you man, but Dave is no longer on the GDC.
:(
My guess is a game similar to aim high but with footballs. And then, of course, some sort of minibot endgame
Common guys, we all know next years game got something with water involved in it :P
GCentola
01-05-2011, 15:26
Common guys, we all know next years game got something with water involved in it :P
Hockey involves frozen water! But the last time they tried something other than carpet....well.....we know what happened there.... lol
Isnt it a bit early to start speculating? No matter how much you think you can figure out, we will all know at the same time come kickoff.
Common guys, we all know next years game got something with water involved in it :P
Bill did say this on FRC live, WATER MINI BOTS!?!!
Morality
01-05-2011, 15:39
Bill did say this on FRC live, WATER MINI BOTS!?!!
This would be something to see....
Bjenks548
01-05-2011, 17:15
My guess would be another hopper game, 2009 is the only one in recent history (2006 before that) lots of small game pieces again would be fun. Minibots will most likely return but with the need of logic and tetrix parts.
Grim Tuesday
01-05-2011, 17:22
I would guess a storing/hording game. There hasn't been one of those since 2009.
I would also wager that balls will be the gamepiece, but other interesting things to play with could be:
Footballs, hockey pucks, batons, small rectangular shapes, etc...
Anupam Goli
01-05-2011, 18:24
Bring back the Tetrahedra! Or the Bins from Stack Attack!
ProgrammerMike7
01-05-2011, 19:02
For future endgames, I think it would be interesting for minibots to have to navigate through a maze the fastest.
While were on the topic of older games why not bring back the corn field from 'Maize Craze' . And I believe we already did (american)Football...'Ramp N’ Roll'?
I did like '09 having the goals be trailers attatched to the robots.
'11 wasn't bad either:D
MagiChau
01-05-2011, 19:28
For future endgames, I think it would be interesting for minibots to have to navigate through a maze the fastest.
That would be pretty neat. I agree with somehow having programming being in future minibot containing games since this year most teams didn't really need it.
Frenchie461
01-05-2011, 19:33
Frisbees. That is all.
Seriously, they would be interesting to use because of their shape and tendency to fly. maybe have to shoot Frisbees into a goal.
Peyton Yeung
01-05-2011, 23:12
How about a combination of most of the games where your robot drives on a plastic floor covered in corn dragging a spiders rack with a hole in the center for moon rocks all the while driving laps over see-saws and shooting soccer balls into holes above the drivers stations.....or not. I'm somewhat interested in another game like 2001 where teams of 4 set the bar for other teams.
On a side note, a really cool end game would be robots that had to climb this years minibot poles without the towers tipping over...
Blackphantom91
01-05-2011, 23:23
in reply to the sport theme, there is still hockey and football... i would LOVE to see a hockey game with that, the possibilities are outstanding. like maybe a unified game manipulator (not like the lunacy wheels of death) and then you get into some really cool designs to manipulate it to scoring points... idk how the new minibot idea would fit in
I thought that Idea would had been strange but interested to see but I see now why they didn't do it because of the same reason lots of teams decided against the end game to easy to overset the points with scoring. I would like to see a game like 2008 it was fun! but I think that games with high point values and robots only doing offense is what they want. Hockey would be out of the box with end game being 5 on 4 lol.
PAR_WIG1350
01-05-2011, 23:47
Maybe minibots have to do something (like a maze/corn-filled obstacle course) during the match (before the end game) for a special scoring object (multiplier, etc) to be released for that team or alliance (Like the super cell in Lunacy which could only be used if an empty cell was delivered to the refueling station). The minibots would be on the field borders and off of the actual field, and the scoring would still have to be done by the full-sized robots/human players so matches won't be decided by minibots alone.
Andrew Lawrence
02-05-2011, 00:07
I have no idea what the 2012 game will be, but all I can say is I want an original game. Logomotion was somewhat a copy of Rack 'N' Roll, and though it was fun, it wasn't very fun seeing all of the good robots with the same elevators and roller claws. Every team already knew what worked for Rack 'N' Roll, so all they had to do is copy the designs of the best robots from Rack 'N' Roll. Speaking of copying, the endgame for the minibots wasn't very exciting in the end. All minibots were essentially the same, and all went up around the same time. So, GDC, if by some random and crazy chance you're reading this, please have the 2012 FRC game be original! Also, make there be less penalties.
And with all the talk of a sports-themed game, I think it would be interesting to see a game similar to Lacrosse. Like, the whole idea of passing a game piece to an alliance member via throwing it, without having the pass intercepted by an opponent. Just an idea, seeing as no-one has mentioned Lacrosse yet. Also, I'm rooting for a Parkour game!
Laser tag. Minibots could be deployed at any time onto an elevated plane that rims the field, and would autonomously drive around and shoot at opponents and/or other minibots. Robots could maybe place rods into a grid on the field (between various poles on the field?) to make fiberoptic connections. (or something like that) If a robot drives into or is caught by the opposing alliance's fiberoptic 'net' then that net's alliance gains points. If a robot was too tall, they might also be literally 'caught', and unable to drive underneath the rods. Each alliance would have a limited number of rods, not enough to fill the entire grid, that they could rearrange whenever they like (but only their own rods). During the endgame they could try to place a special rod that, if hung, grants bonus points proportional to the number of consecutive rods that form a single chain through that rod. At the end of the game each alliance gains points for the number of grid spaces that are completely bordered by their own rods.
Kind of like that old paper game where you take turns drawing lines in a grid of dots trying to be the one who completes each square.
That was probably clear as mud.
How much in advance to they plan each year's game?
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned an "end of the world" theme yet :rolleyes:
I would like to see a game that involves robots working together more. Such as requiring two robots to do a specific task (like picking up a box).
Most games they always have one type of game piece (ex: 2011 - tubes, 2010 - balls), so maybe next year...they will have a variety?
SavtaKenneth
02-05-2011, 06:45
The GDC has a very nice tradition of game pieces. Every second year is a balls year:
(I don't remember the game before off the top of my head)
2004-balls
2005-tetras
2006-balls
2007-tubes
2008-balls
2009-orbit balls (Although they weren't ballish exactly because they deformed a lot)
2010-balls
2011-tubes
2012-balls?
yarden.saa
02-05-2011, 08:11
do you remember some sort of test tube which kids used to have ants in it?
I don't remember its name but it would be great to have a bigger size of this in the field and the minibots are in it like ants. there will be a driver to the minibots and all what the minibots will do is to launch game pieces into the game (to their alliance).
The GDC has a very nice tradition of game pieces. Every second year is a balls year:
(I don't remember the game before off the top of my head)
2004-balls
2005-tetras
2006-balls
2007-tubes
2008-balls
2009-orbit balls (Although they weren't ballish exactly because they deformed a lot)
2010-balls
2011-tubes
2012-balls?
That comes up every year, and every year we've counted 2009 as balls (I agree with you, most of the rest of the community doesn't), disproving that. Just saying.
Andrew Lawrence
02-05-2011, 09:06
Why is everyone saying there will be minibots in next year's game?
tyronott
02-05-2011, 09:07
I dunno...they've run out of mainstream sports to do.
ie. 2006 - Aim High (Basketball)
2007 - Rack 'n Roll (Not a sport)
2008 - Overdrive (NASCAR)
2009 - Lunacy (Not a sport)
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion (Not a sport)
2012 - Sport?
Football?
Blackphantom91
02-05-2011, 09:50
Chexposito posted a re-link to bills blog making references to them liking it. they also seem to like the tubes shape tubes shape idea I wouldn't mind it switching as long as its something that's extremely similar but after teams doing this for 20 years they always will be able to make reference to games. ie 2011 to 2007s game. I would love a game like 08 or 06 it would be fun.
Morality
02-05-2011, 12:44
As mentioned in previous posts, I would like to see hockey or football if it is a sport. However, both games would be similar to breakaway...at least in my mind...
Until they actually use them, I'm sticking with Cones as the game piece. They're cheap, durable, come in a WIDE VARIETY, and darn hard to manipulate in some cases.
Cones that float on water, used for water polo.
Mike Marandola
02-05-2011, 13:31
I think a game that involves the field shooting balls out, and the robots hitting them them into long bins across the field without the other alliance catching them, just like baseball. Frisbees would also be pretty cool game pieces.
Nick Rixford
02-05-2011, 15:23
Nobody has mentioned baseball I don't think, Football is another type of ball game, and i have noticed the games have been getting a lot less rough. I would be all for a Parkour game hahaha, that would be both exciting and fun to play since it would involve many obstacles. Isn't 2012 the year of the summer Olympic games? They may also try to base it off of something like that? Who knows. I also noticed Dean hinted in on Logomotion last year in ATL with the description of the FIRST logo, so if anyone else caught any hints this year, that would be great to know
Jreed129
02-05-2011, 15:52
Why is everyone saying there will be minibots in next year's game?
If I remember correctly I think it is, from Dean saying they are trying to integrate the FIRST programs (FRC, FTC, FLL, etc.). At least get them to work together more. Plus the Minibots did add an interesting element to gameplay
A maze game would be interesting, where a host bot(FRC) releases a minibot(FTC) into a maze that sits above or next to the main playing field. All along the way knocking something off of a ledge to the host bot which is then used to score.
Dean also put a lot of emphasis on how boeing had an unlimited KOP, no restrictions to what a minibot can be made out of next year?
Bjenks548
02-05-2011, 16:14
Everyone seems to have forgot the last 3 years themes...
2009 Moon landing anniversary
2010 World Cup
2011 First 20th anniversary
Whats happening in 2012?
-Leap year
-Destruction of Earth
-Summer Olympics in London
-any others?
personally i would like to see a game that somewhat resembles Breakaway, especially since FIRST is trying to show that robotics is a sport too. Breakaway, I thought, simplified the entire aspect of robotics. Breakaway made the game more of a sport rather than a task that was done by robots. It had easy to follow scoring, a simple, exciting endgame, and allowed for simple robots to be useful which created more successful teams. (ex. a kit bot in 2011 couldn't do anything in the game resulting in a 2v3 match while in 2010 a kit bot could be a great defensive robot to the alliance)
So I'm in favor of a sport-like game for next year :)
548swimmer
02-05-2011, 16:16
Everyone seems to have forgot the last 3 years themes...
2009 Moon landing anniversary
2010 World Cup
2011 First 20th anniversary
Whats happening in 2012?
-Leap year
-Destruction of Earth
-Summer Olympics in London
-any others?
Summer Olympics => water sports => WATER GAME!
seans341
02-05-2011, 18:12
Summer Olympics => water sports => WATER GAME!
My thoughts exactly!! :p
Andrew Lawrence
02-05-2011, 19:22
Though I highly doubt a water game, I am looking forward to a sports-themed game. I completely agree with DSM33's post on how Breakaway brought FRC this much closer to being an actual sport. Our team has been trying to make robotics more popular by building robots that can play sports (to a point). We are currently in the process of making a bot that will have a large hopper in the back to catch footballs, and have a launcher, either pneumatic-powered or surgical tubing-powered (tell me which one we should use). We will then bring the robot out to games and catch footballs and launch them, as if we were playing a real game. It would all be controlled, but we were thinking of later on adding sensors so it could aim towards the field-goals and avoid opponents.
GCentola
02-05-2011, 21:59
2012=100 year anniversary of the Titanic = water game
Everyone seems to have forgot the last 3 years themes...
2009 Moon landing anniversary
2010 World Cup
2011 First 20th anniversary
Whats happening in 2012?
-Leap year
-Destruction of Earth
-Summer Olympics in London
-any others?
World Popluation is 7 billion(Technicaly late 2011 but thats still 2012 season).
Flying car reaches market.
100 year aniversery of Titanic sinking.
etc...
rajikurbaj357
02-05-2011, 22:12
I dunno...they've run out of mainstream sports to do.
ie. 2006 - Aim High (Basketball)
2007 - Rack 'n Roll (Not a sport)
2008 - Overdrive (NASCAR)
2009 - Lunacy (Not a sport)
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion (Not a sport)
2012 - Sport?
I personally saw lunacy as a hockey type sport because of the floor and wheels. and logomotion was taken out of context because of the 20th anniversary. Hmm what sport would come after hockey and soccer?
Andrew Lawrence
02-05-2011, 22:18
I personally saw lunacy as a hockey type sport because of the floor and wheels. and logomotion was taken out of context because of the 20th anniversary. Hmm what sport would come after hockey and soccer?
Golf? Ugh. I shiver at the sight of a golf-based game. Polo? Doesn't necessarily need to mean water polo. Polo can be played outside of water, where it's just called Polo. For those of you who don't know what polo is, click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polo) to find out.
Summer Olympics => water sports => WATER GAME!
IM TELLING YALL!!!!! THE MINI BOTS WILL BE IN A WATER ENVIRONMENT
my 0.02$
548swimmer
02-05-2011, 22:26
2012 is the 75th anniversary of the Golden Gate bridge.
Though I highly doubt a water game, I am looking forward to a sports-themed game. I completely agree with DSM33's post on how Breakaway brought FRC<snip>
I'm tired to death, and I for some reason read "Breakaway" as "Broadway." It would be cool to have a music game...anyone up for hanging music note tubes on a staff to make a song? Bonus points for chords ;P
Andrew Lawrence
02-05-2011, 22:38
I'm tired to death, and I for some reason read "Breakaway" as "Broadway." It would be cool to have a music game...anyone up for hanging music note tubes on a staff to make a song? Bonus points for chords ;P
Full score if you make it play the Super Mario Bros. Theme Song!
Silliness aside, it seems like it would be the same idea of this year: Hanging up game pieces. And no offense to those who want to play another Logomotion, I think the premise is starting to get boring. We need something original!
Mike Marandola
02-05-2011, 22:41
2012 Summer Olympics + Leap Year = Hurdles?!?! It could be Overdrive with hurdles so the robots would have to jump.
Andrew Lawrence
02-05-2011, 22:46
2012 Summer Olympics + Leap Year = Hurdles?!?! It could be Overdrive with hurdles so the robots would have to jump.
PARKOUR!!!!!
Oh my. This is something that I didn't notice before. The Championship ended two days ago, we're only on page four of this thread, and already ideas are being repeated...
I think that I'll place my bet on some kind of bridge game. I like hurdles, but not for FRC (field is too small and robots are too big). I think that the closest FRC will get to hurdles was last year's bumps.
Blackphantom91
02-05-2011, 23:40
Well I think with a different type of texture/ field to try and move on would be very great new game. Football/Hockey/Lacross haven't been done yet. Something thats challenging enough for the teams but easy to understand for the newcomers/fans would be the best type of game. Breakaway and overdrive captured that type of action and simplicity very easily. To me If it was a football type game It would be cool to implement passing to other robots then that robot scores would be pretty cool and unique.
Instead of fueling more speculation, I'm going to ask a simple question:
What would you like to see in the 2012 game? Specific elements, general ideas, and all that. This is just to get your ideas flowing for whenever the GDC asks for ideas.
--I like the no-cross line in autonomous that Breakaway and Logomotion had. 2012 should keep that if at all possible.
--Minibot challenge would be great--but let's restrict it to LEGOs this time (or open up the motor selection a little bit). I'll also let someone else come up with the details.
--Personally, I'd love it if the defensive restrictions were relaxed a bit. Keep the no-pinning, no-tipping, and other similar rules, but allow defense more than just "get in the way or hope you can push hard enough".
--Fewer cards. Enough said.
Andrew Lawrence
03-05-2011, 00:00
Please make a separate thread for that. I think it's gonna have A LOT of replies.
demosthenes2k8
03-05-2011, 00:05
I think that a game that requires all three alliance robots to do separate tasks to score would be fun. As an example of the concept, but not the actual game idea, think about the part of Majora's Mask where you have to switch between Kafei and Link to advance through a timed dungeon - separate tasks, but working together to keep advancing.
Andrew Lawrence
03-05-2011, 00:09
I think that a game that requires all three alliance robots to do separate tasks to score would be fun. As an example of the concept, but not the actual game idea, think about the part of Majora's Mask where you have to switch between Kafei and Link to advance through a timed dungeon - separate tasks, but working together to keep advancing.
That sounds like fun, but the tasks can't be too different from each other. Then we'd have a lot of robots who could do one task, and not another, and the teams who do everything every year will have some kind of arm, kicker, and ball hopper on their robot, which would we way too hard to control, set up, and may go well over the weight limit. If there is gonna be a game like that, then the three tasks have to be somewhat similar so teams could make an attachment that could at least do 2 of the 3.
smurfgirl
03-05-2011, 08:54
The game so good it will cause the world to end...
Actually though, I'm more worried about making it through the end of the semester right now than next year's game. We still have the offseason!
Actually though, I'm more worried about making it through the end of the semester right now than next year's game. We still have the offseason!
Amen to that! I'm nearing the end of the only Math class that's ever been an actual challenge to me. If you ever have the chance to take Non-Linear Systems ... seriously think about going to a shrink if you want to take it... Actually it would only be 'difficult' if they hadn't added in weeks of stochastic crap. I'm fairly certain that probability has always baffled me, and it probably always will...
The Titanic was an engineering feat in its time. It celebrated engineering in many ways. Good catch on that one.
The 'destruction of the world' could have more to do with a Mayan theme. They were master architects in their time.
Robert Cawthon
03-05-2011, 15:45
Maybe minibots have to do something (like a maze/corn-filled obstacle course) during the match (before the end game) for a special scoring object (multiplier, etc) to be released for that team or alliance (Like the super cell in Lunacy which could only be used if an empty cell was delivered to the refueling station). The minibots would be on the field borders and off of the actual field, and the scoring would still have to be done by the full-sized robots/human players so matches won't be decided by minibots alone.
How about having the minibot release the scoring objects? It can be deployed during autonomous and releases 1/3 of the scoring objects for your alliance. If all three minibots are successful, all of your scoring objects are released. If it cannot be deployed during autonomous, it can be deployed during teleop. The advantage of the autonomous is that you have more time to score. Perhaps 1/2 way through teleop the remaining objects that, for whatever reason, were not released, are released. Small penalty for minibot failure, but not completely devestating. Just a thought.;)
Becca334
03-05-2011, 15:56
It's really interesting how everyone is suspecting a minibot portion in next years game. I know Dean is trying to bring together all 4 parts of FIRST, but as someone mentioned before, maybe only LEGO parts could be used this time. I think it would add an interesting competition if there's a minibot but only LEGO parts could be used since many FRC members have come out from FLL.
Here's a thought: What if minibots WERE the scoring pieces, and the bots are responsible for moving themselves to a reloading position?
Andrew Lawrence
03-05-2011, 19:17
How about having the minibot release the scoring objects? It can be deployed during autonomous and releases 1/3 of the scoring objects for your alliance. If all three minibots are successful, all of your scoring objects are released. If it cannot be deployed during autonomous, it can be deployed during teleop. The advantage of the autonomous is that you have more time to score. Perhaps 1/2 way through teleop the remaining objects that, for whatever reason, were not released, are released. Small penalty for minibot failure, but not completely devestating. Just a thought.;)
I like the idea of having something (not necessarily minibots) deployed during autonomous, that could release some kind of game piece when pressed. It could be like a cycle, where when something like a minibot goes through this small tunnel, a few game pieces are released, and then the minibot-like object comes out to a spot where the hostbots can retrieve it, and restart to get more game pieces in auto mode. I can imagine a small tunnel the loops a bit out of the playing field, and releases game pieces when a minibot comes by, and then the minibot comes out, and the hostbot gets the minibot. I bet we'd see a lot of robots who would send out multiple minibots, then.
I have an idea for a awesome endgame:
Giant arch made of 1.75" steel tubing (used for the towers of '10 and the minibot towers '11).
This giant arch spans the width of the playing field in the middle of the field reaching at least 12 ft high. robots get points for hanging off of the arch and not touching the ground. However, more points are awarded for being higher on the arch. One could go about it like the minibots this year with point values for being the highest to lowest or just have markings on the arch with "zones" which have certain hanging values.
Either way, it would be an amazing endgame to watch. Robots battling for the center position... 2004 but better?
Eh, thats all I've got for now, Bryan
Andrew Lawrence
03-05-2011, 19:25
I have an idea for a awesome endgame:
Giant arch made of 1.75" steel tubing (used for the towers of '10 and the minibot towers '11).
This giant arch spans the width of the playing field in the middle of the field reaching at least 12 ft high. robots get points for hanging off of the arch and not touching the ground. However, more points are awarded for being higher on the arch. One could go about it like the minibots this year with point values for being the highest to lowest or just have markings on the arch with "zones" which have certain hanging values.
That would be fun for the prepared teams, and hilarious for the audience, especially when the unprepared teams don't have a hanger that can grip onto the arch. Watching those slippery, low fraction hangers hang those heavy robots, and having the robots slip down the slope would be hilarious! I bet we'd see teams who'd have wheels on their hangers so they could scoot towards the middle, and push other robots down the arc.
That would be fun for the prepared teams, and hilarious for the audience, especially when the unprepared teams don't have a hanger that can grip onto the arch. Watching those slippery, low fraction hangers hang those heavy robots, and having the robots slip down the slope would be hilarious! I bet we'd see teams who'd have wheels on their hangers so they could scoot towards the middle, and push other robots down the arc.
I'd suspect those wheeled-slider teams of being 237, 1266, 868, and 330 (2004's "slider" class of robots--64 isn't around, except as a full-on rookie). I'd also suspect that 190 (another bar-blocker) would come up with another way of making sure that other teams don't stay up. If, of course, the payout was big enough.
Actually, I think it looks like some folks want some modifications to 2004!
For those that weren't there: knocking a pair of (10-point) balls off of stands at the side of the field in automode released a flood of 5-point balls from over the driver's station. The bar to hang on was 50 points, per robot. (Any remaining balls also flooded down at the 30-second mark of the match.)
So, let's have some fun with this. I'll just use 2004 as a base and add devilish twists:
Minibots have separate tracks on the outside of the field. They knock down the 10-point balls. The catch? Minibots must be deployed autonomously.
The bar is replaced by an arch. The catch? Top spot is not worth the most points; the spots next to it are. Oh, and you're judged by the lowest point value that you're in contact with. (I'd also say that the lowest spots are not worth the least. Just to keep life interesting.)
Stationary goals are replaced by mobile goals. Mobile goals remain as well (4 total, not assigned to either alliance). Possession of a goal at the end of a match gives 5 points plus whatever's inside that goal. (Possession can be dealt with later--I'm thinking something like the 2002 possession rules, maybe 1999.) The platform is replaced by a low ramp all across the field.
Robots are now allowed to fill the goals, but balls must be out of the robot's possession below the 4' mark. Humans may also fill the goals.
As for the doubler ball, it just got bigger--the trackballs from 2008 should work quite well (or throw in a tetra or bin just to be different).
It was only a matter of time, at least this year the thread popped up after champs!:eek:
As for right now what I can guess on,
1. Ball time, as for what type, who knows? Anything from Ping Pongs to the Overdrive balls could be used. Now yes this could be the year this pattern is broken, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was some sort of ball.
As for what I want:
A form of king of the hill to return! I've been a big fan of Stack Attack being revived in one form or another, and preferably this aspect.
Besides that, it's really time to sit and wait until a hereing or hint gets thrown out.
Andrew Lawrence
03-05-2011, 22:07
Besides that, it's really time to sit and wait until a hereing or hint gets thrown out.
Since I'm new at this, does anyone know when the first hints are actually released? Is it sooner to kickoff, like November/December, or spread apart, like every few months?
Mark Sheridan
03-05-2011, 22:11
Everyone seems to have forgot the last 3 years themes...
2009 Moon landing anniversary
2010 World Cup
2011 First 20th anniversary
Whats happening in 2012?
-Leap year
-Destruction of Earth
-Summer Olympics in London
-any others?
Well if I did this math right 2011 is the 25th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster. 2012 would be 26 years but with the recent nuclear crisis in Japan, perhaps the 2012 game would be removing "fuel rods" from a "reactor."
The game pieces could be PVC pipes as "fuel rods" and the "reactors" would look like the 2002 or 2004 goals or the 2009 trailers. The pipes would have to be dumped into a "cooling pool," essentially a bin.
I think it would be cool because robots do these jobs in real life.
donnie99
03-05-2011, 23:29
I like the idea of connecting all 4 parts of FIRST, but as was said, the minibus were too alike. There should be a size, weight, and supply battery, after that, there should be very limited rules. A game for next year should involve something as a capture and control game. Every 15 seconds or so, a game piece is released that an alliance must control. Each piece is worth different, and more as the game goes on, because there is less time to control it. The end would be great for a minibot. It could possibly climb a pole or do some small task and release random pieces, stored above the tower or such. The minibot that released the piece gets credit for the points. This would make a human player again important as an analyst. The autonomous mode would be a sort of race for 6 pieces around the field. Each piece would do like this years and double a score. It could possibly double the first shape the team controls. An alliance with 2 human players could have the chance to release a game piece early, putting it out for any team to get, such as the throwing of tubes this year. The pieces would randomly come out 4 or such places, giving the game a new strategy. This would be different for each match. There would be a small safe zone that other bots can't go in, and pieces would score, and an area around it where pieces could score and robots could go into. There would be designated spots around the field for each alliance. If anyone would like to support this idea, email FIRST to look at this thread and post, or just give me feedback on what you would think this kind of game would be like.
Since I'm new at this, does anyone know when the first hints are actually released? Is it sooner to kickoff, like November/December, or spread apart, like every few months?Official hints typically show up in December. Unofficial hints, on the other hand, may show up at any time.
Tetraman
04-05-2011, 00:34
Official hints typically show up in December. Unofficial hints, on the other hand, may show up at any time.
With Dave no longer apart of the GDC, good luck getting unofficial hints.
With Dave no longer apart of the GDC, good luck getting unofficial hints.
Bill Miller. Did you forget about that character?
With Dave no longer apart of the GDC, good luck getting unofficial hints.
There's always Bill's Blog...anyone up for Haagen-Dazs?
Edit: Eric is sneaky. My Haagen-Dazs comment still stands.
Tetraman
04-05-2011, 00:40
Bill Miller. Did you forget about that character?
There's always Bill's Blog...anyone up for Haagen-Dazs?
Bill isn't subtle enough. You can tell when his "hints" aren't hints.
2012 Winter Olympics
2012 FIRST Game = Hockey + Curling
If this is true, which I hope it isnt, this would bring back the dreaded REGOLITH! :yikes: :eek: :ahh:
2012 Winter Olympics
2012 FIRST Game = Hockey + Curling
If this is true, which I hope it isnt, this would bring back the dreaded REGOLITH! :yikes: :eek: :ahh:
You know the more I see it discussed in this thread, the more I think having something based on the Olympics is possible? We did it with the World Cup just last year, so anything is possible.
Andrew Lawrence
04-05-2011, 09:26
So we need to gather all of the sports played in the olympics next year, and see which ones would be viable FIRST games, and which ones would involve regolith!
Jared Russell
04-05-2011, 09:59
Aim High with some sort of minibot challenge.
And it will be called Aim Higher.
(Remember Dean saying that they were getting to work on the 2014 game at kickoff? And that survey about your favorite FRC game at the beginning of the season? I'm just calling it as I see it - any maybe hoping, a little, too)
thefro526
04-05-2011, 10:28
Aim High with some sort of minibot challenge.
And it will be called Aim Higher.
(Remember Dean saying that they were getting to work on the 2014 game at kickoff? And that survey about your favorite FRC game at the beginning of the season? I'm just calling it as I see it - any maybe hoping, a little, too)
Shooting minibots into a goal?
I dig it.
Chris is me
04-05-2011, 10:30
Shooting minibots into a goal?
I dig it.
If by "goal" you mean "trash bin".
I like the 'fuel rod' idea. They could even implement the 'magnetic fuel rod' like they did in this year's FTC game (though I have no idea how many teams actually performed based upon trying to get a magnetic baton...).
The minibot concept was an ingenious idea, I think.
Perhaps in future years they could force us to 'deploy' the minibot during autonomous to a specified location that had some parameters teams had to design for. Then at a specified time, all of the locations would activate their minibots independent of the drive teams' actions. Teams would then have to decide: deploy minibot in autonomous, or deploy the game piece in autonomous? What a mind boggle that season's strategy would be!
staplemonx
04-05-2011, 13:19
flying, ice, walking, multi level, camera only navigation, etc...
make it very different so that it levels the playing field for newer teams
Tetraman
04-05-2011, 13:53
flying...
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Score.png
Image from http://www.exploratorium.edu/books/bernoulli/
Akash Rastogi
04-05-2011, 14:00
flying, ice, walking, multi level, camera only navigation, etc...
make it very different so that it levels the playing field for newer teams
Looks like we'll have to discuss our polar opposite opinions soon, JJ! :p
Leveled playing field = worst thing you can do. IMO
thefro526
04-05-2011, 14:04
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/Score.png
Image from http://www.exploratorium.edu/books/bernoulli/
Can someone get this guy on the GDC, ASAP.
Tetraman
04-05-2011, 14:10
I started a thread for actual game ideas, leaving this thread for rumors and speculation on the 2012 game.
Post all your ideas and concepts for possible game play ideas/mechanics you would like to see in the 2012 or future games in this thead: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1059122
Can someone get this guy on the GDC, ASAP.
I'm trying to get there man, I'm trying.
2012 Winter Olympics
2012 FIRST Game = Hockey + Curling
If this is true, which I hope it isnt, this would bring back the dreaded REGOLITH! :yikes: :eek: :ahh:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422
Andrew Lawrence
04-05-2011, 20:05
Leveled playing field = worst thing you can do. IMO
That's GENIUS! A leveled playing field is boring, but un UNLEVELED field would be awesome! I'm not saying level as in skill, I'm saying an actual field with bumps, slopes, some sides higher/lower than others, and maybe even a kind of second floor pathway that extends outside the field for robots to travel on! There would be walls, of course, but a 15 foot drop may hurt a team pretty badly!
staplemonx
05-05-2011, 09:28
Looks like we'll have to discuss our polar opposite opinions soon, JJ! :p
Leveled playing field = worst thing you can do. IMO
no way, resets mix things up and drive innovation. I would really love multi level with climbing. Or a hockey rink with the same rules as power wheel chair hockey.
Blackphantom91
05-05-2011, 10:08
If regalith makes a come back I may cry! think if you have the minibots running at the same time as the robots it would create an interesting problem. I honestly think the next thing they would do might be with push sensors or something that the nxt can do to keep it intertwine because they seemed to like that.
thefro526
05-05-2011, 10:12
no way, resets mix things up and drive innovation. I would really love multi level with climbing. Or a hockey rink with the same rules as power wheel chair hockey.
In 2009 FIRST made an attempt to level the playing field by using an ice-like surface (CoF of .06/.07) on the playing field.
Dominant teams were still dominant, and those who struggled in the past - still struggled.
That being said, let's bring back the regolith. ;)
Chris is me
05-05-2011, 10:19
I want a divided field. It would simultaneously end the "drivetrain wars" and present an interesting challenge for teams.
Tetraman
05-05-2011, 10:26
I want a divided field. It would simultaneously end the "drivetrain wars" and present an interesting challenge for teams.
As in Red alliance stays on one side of the field for the entire match and blue alliance on the other?
Zuelu562
05-05-2011, 10:30
As in Red alliance stays on one side of the field for the entire match and blue alliance on the other?
That would be interesting play (VEX Clean Sweep used this concept). But more interesting, put the robots on the other end of the field (I.E. in front of the opposing alliance station).
That would be interesting play (VEX Clean Sweep used this concept). But more interesting, put the robots on the other end of the field (I.E. in front of the opposing alliance station).
God please no. It's hard enough to drive, and coach drivers, when you can SEE.
Zuelu562
05-05-2011, 10:40
You've got a point. I was thinking more from a "what-if" perspective. It would be odd, and extremely annoying.
Another segmented field idea I came up with; a 4 team alliance that works together to score maximum points?
Each team can only go in a certain section of the field and have to ferry game pieces across the field to be scored. In that vein, scoring would be based off points scored in the game time. If an alliance scores every single game piece, they get 1 additional point for every second left on the clock? Max score (and by extension, fastest time) is the objective.
Jared Russell
05-05-2011, 10:46
You've got a point. I was thinking more from a "what-if" perspective. It would be odd, and extremely annoying.
Another segmented field idea I came up with; a 4 team alliance that works together to score maximum points?
Each team can only go in a certain section of the field and have to ferry game pieces across the field to be scored. In that vein, scoring would be based off points scored in the game time. If an alliance scores every single game piece, they get 1 additional point for every second left on the clock? Max score (and by extension, fastest time) is the objective.
Were you around in 2001? ::rtm:: :)
JamesBrown
05-05-2011, 10:50
Well if I did this math right 2011 is the 25th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster. 2012 would be 26 years but with the recent nuclear crisis in Japan, perhaps the 2012 game would be removing "fuel rods" from a "reactor."
The game pieces could be PVC pipes as "fuel rods" and the "reactors" would look like the 2002 or 2004 goals or the 2009 trailers. The pipes would have to be dumped into a "cooling pool," essentially a bin.
I think it would be cool because robots do these jobs in real life.
This would be a fantastic game for the rookie team I am getting started for next year. Our mentors come from AREVA NP and B&W, two nuclear contractors/operators, almost all of the engineering mentors currently work on robots that do service or inspection of nuclear reactors (including robots currently at Fukishima). The more realistic that the GDC made it the better.
Zuelu562
05-05-2011, 10:52
Were you around in 2001? ::rtm:: :)
I, in fact, was not (points at my rookie year info box). In any respect, I think a segmented field, if used correctly could make an interesting game.
Tetraman
05-05-2011, 12:17
I want a divided field. It would simultaneously end the "drivetrain wars" and present an interesting challenge for teams.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/FRCFieldWALL.jpg
I'm thinking that the middle open area is for alliances to pass game pieces between each other in a way that isn't over the wall. Your robot can't pass across the white line on the opposite side or else penalty.
I'm not sure what the game would be, but it would have lots of Coopertition points involved by having seperate alliances attempt to not only complete their own specific tasks but if both alliances can complete a bigger task together while on opposite sides of the field, both alliances gain Coopertition points as well as some boost to their seed ranking.
I'm going to have to raise the wall near the platforms.
I, in fact, was not (points at my rookie year info box). 4v0, trying to score as many points as possible. The sooner you stopped the clock, the higher your multiplier. (And even today, when talking about the E-stop, the Manual makes it clear that the E-stop won't affect match timing--they were used to stop the clock that year, and that year only.)
It's also up there on the top 5 "Please Don't EVER Do This Again!" list--it's not exactly a popular game. Right alongside 2003's eliminations scoring (points-based; win one match by enough and you win the round, effectively) and 2010's ranking system. Now, having both alliances need to (try to) work together to do something is not on that list.
Zuelu562
05-05-2011, 12:39
image removed for size consideration
I'm thinking that the middle open area is for alliances to pass game pieces between each other in a way that isn't over the wall. Your robot can't pass across the white line on the opposite side or else penalty.
I'm not sure what the game would be, but it would have lots of Coopertition points involved by having seperate alliances attempt to not only complete their own specific tasks but if both alliances can complete a bigger task together while on opposite sides of the field, both alliances gain Coopertition points as well as some boost to their seed ranking.
I'm going to have to raise the wall near the platforms.
What if the goal was to take them from the lower end (like maybe a 5-12 inch rise over the length of the field) and put them in the square. Robot drive systems cannot go over the middle line, but manipulators can (and, of course, associated penalties).
The human player on the "high" end of the field (oh my, so many jokes) can bring the game pieces in, and return them ala bowling ball return (the human player on the "low" end would have to return them over the wall).
P.S. Thanks for the history lesson. Man, thinking about it that sounds like an abysmal game.
Tetraman
05-05-2011, 13:51
Taking a page from Quad Quandry, I whipped this up. Notice that the Red alliance goal is in the Blue Alliance Zone, and vice versa. Both allainces may either work together to score the most points possible, or pull the goals away to make it harder for the opposing alliance to score.
Maybe use Dodgeballs, like in 2004. I'm guessing 36 of them. Each ball in the Alliance Zone is worth 1 point, and 3 points for each ball in the Alliance Goal.
In the last 20 seconds of the match, alliances may work together to lift the two goals at least 20" off the floor and resting on the top of a robot. If the goals tip over and de-score any balls, those will have to count for being in the Zone rather than the goal. If both alliances successfully raise both goals 20" high by the end of the match, each alliance obtains 2 Coopertition points. A Bonus 1 coopertition point is eached by each individual team that is holding up the goals.
Or something like that....
(ps, the red boxes in the picture below are robots)
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f242/ErwinTheSketcher/FRCFieldWALL2.jpg
Andrew Lawrence
05-05-2011, 19:01
As a reply to everybody saying they want a "cooperative" game, I just don't see what your seeing. Competition is what drives us, and any form play that assists your opponents doesn't really seem like it's competitive. I understand the whole "Try to work together to achieve maximum points" thing, but it's not in any way in the spirit of competition. While cooperation is vital, I don't think FRC stands for FIRST Robotics Cooperation. In my point of view, on the field, cooperation should only be done with alliance members.
As a reply to everybody saying they want a "cooperative" game, I just don't see what your seeing. Competition is what drives us, and any form play that assists your opponents doesn't really seem like it's competitive. I understand the whole "Try to work together to achieve maximum points" thing, but it's not in any way in the spirit of competition. While cooperation is vital, I don't think FRC stands for FIRST Robotics Cooperation. In my point of view, on the field, cooperation should only be done with alliance members.
Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems are competitors.
Unless you're talking about the F-35, that is.
Quite often, cooperation between opposing competitors can work to the good of all of them. FLL does this with the shared objective--sometimes, both teams need to do it and both get points; other times, only one can do it and get points.
The really fun trick is to make it so that if you work together it's easier to do something that benefits both a lot, but if you work separately, one or both benefit, but to a much lesser extent.
Tetraman
05-05-2011, 19:14
What we should try is for CD members to actually come up with our own FRC game together like the GDC would. Discuss ideas, talk about possibilities and make it a team effort. Pick our favorites and combine ideas into our own ideal FRC game. That would be cool if it would work out.
staplemonx
05-05-2011, 19:30
Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems are competitors.
Unless you're talking about the F-35, that is.
Quite often, cooperation between opposing competitors can work to the good of all of them. FLL does this with the shared objective--sometimes, both teams need to do it and both get points; other times, only one can do it and get points.
THis is a bad example. Big defense contractors only work together becuase of politics. Politicians want to spread the jobs across multiple states soe defense contractors put proposals together to show that the jobs are in every district. They would rather have the whole pie, and activly position themselves to take the pie from others as soon as they falter.
Alex2614
05-05-2011, 20:31
The game so good it will cause the world to end...
Actually though, I'm more worried about making it through the end of the semester right now than next year's game. We still have the offseason!
What offseason? The 2012 preseason started at the social on the evening of the 30th :P
Xaviermw191
05-05-2011, 20:38
Quite often, cooperation between opposing competitors can work to the good of all of them. FLL does this with the shared objective--sometimes, both teams need to do it and both get points; other times, only one can do it and get points.
The really fun trick is to make it so that if you work together it's easier to do something that benefits both a lot, but if you work separately, one or both benefit, but to a much lesser extent.
I get that its nice and all that we "discover" that working together makes things easier than working separately, but I don't think the game should be about making this social point.
The competition should be just that, a competition, albeit a respectful and graciously professional competition, but I don't understand the need to make the competition more of a "work together to complete goals" thing. It would be ridiculous and met with distaste if we were to have a game that denied us the opportunity for this direct competition.
Peyton Yeung
05-05-2011, 21:01
How about a game like king of the hill where robots try to stay on the center of a hill and the farther out from the center the less points you get. Also above the field is a horizontal bar and the closer the bottom of the robot is to the bar the more bonus points. Teams can also give robots a boost onto the hill or the bar as well as block teams trying to get to these two areas. The hill moves and the side that has the most hill in it gets 3/4 of the points from the hill so if a red robot has control of the center of the hill(which is worth the most) and the hill is on the blue side then blue gets 3/4 of the entire sum of points from the hill.
THis is a bad example. Big defense contractors only work together becuase of politics. Politicians want to spread the jobs across multiple states soe defense contractors put proposals together to show that the jobs are in every district. They would rather have the whole pie, and activly position themselves to take the pie from others as soon as they falter.
And FRC DOESN'T have politics?
Maybe, just maybe, those three companies put in a joint bid on the project. Maybe, just maybe, they weren't forced to by politics--Boeing put in a bid for the same project and AFAIK didn't have a major second player.
As far as FRC and politics, don't get me started--they've said and done a few rather impolitic things with regards to various areas, trying to play politics.
@Xavier--Right. That's why 4v0 was so unpopular. But if that sort of element is incorporated into the game as an option, but not required to compete by any means, well, then, that could make life really, really interesting--will the alliances play 6v0 or 3v3?
Bjenks548
05-05-2011, 22:32
How about an end game that deals with prisoners dilemma. For anyone who doesn't know what this is the situation goes like this.
Two prisoners are in separate cells before they go to court and are unable to talk.
If
-Both plead guilty, both get 1 years in jail
-Both plead innocent, both will get 5 years
-One pleads guilty and the other innocent, the one that pleaded guilty gets 10 years. The one that pleads innocent gets 0 years.
Both pleading guilty yields the best mutual result, but pleading innocent gives you a chance to get no jail time.
This would make an interesting end game if instead of pleading, the robots had to complete a task durring the end game that the opposing alliance could not see if it were done. Gracious professionalism says both do the task and split the points. Strategy might want to take the risk.
Robotmmm
05-05-2011, 23:14
How about a game where the two alliances have to interact in order to score points. Tennis or ping pong maybe. They both use a ball and I think they are both still olympic sports.
How about an end game that deals with prisoners dilemma. For anyone who doesn't know what this is the situation goes like this.
Two prisoners are in separate cells before they go to court and are unable to talk.
If
-Both plead guilty, both get 1 years in jail
-Both plead innocent, both will get 5 years
-One pleads guilty and the other innocent, the one that pleaded guilty gets 10 years. The one that pleads innocent gets 0 years.
Both pleading guilty yields the best mutual result, but pleading innocent gives you a chance to get no jail time.
This would make an interesting end game if instead of pleading, the robots had to complete a task durring the end game that the opposing alliance could not see if it were done. Gracious professionalism says both do the task and split the points. Strategy might want to take the risk.
See now I thought bout that for this year's minibot race. You would say that you could deploy it at anytime you wanted but scoring would be in reverse order: 1st to score got 5 then 10 then 15 then 20; but there would be no scoring after the match was over. So, yes you could get guaranteed points but you would be giving your opponent the chance for more.
Hawiian Cadder
06-05-2011, 00:59
i had an idea that i think would be pretty sweet. what if during autonomous, teams scored very light weight inflatable or foam balls on a grid. then the goal of teleopp is to duplicate as closely as possible the same pattern, using 18 lbs bowling balls. expand auton to 30 or 45 seconds, and the fact that the bowling balls weigh a lot. i immagine a six sided grid in the middle of the field. auton balls are scored into polycarb tubes. and roll down within the tube. teleop balls are scored, but dont roll down as far. points go as follows.
auton balls are worth 1 on low, 2 on mid, and 3 on high rows in the grid.
teleopp balls are worth 1 on low, 2 on mid, and 3 on top
a pair, of teleop and auton balls, is worth 2 on botom, 4 in midle, and 6 on top.
in the last 15 seconds. teams have the chance to deploy a pre loaded, 1 per team super ball.
a super ball is worth 6 points anywhere
2 superballs on top of each other (requiring 2 robots to score them) is worth 18 points.
what do you guys think?
Robby Unruh
06-05-2011, 09:17
i had an idea that i think would be pretty sweet. what if during autonomous, teams scored very light weight inflatable or foam balls on a grid. then the goal of teleopp is to duplicate as closely as possible the same pattern, using 18 lbs bowling balls. expand auton to 30 or 45 seconds, and the fact that the bowling balls weigh a lot. i immagine a six sided grid in the middle of the field. auton balls are scored into polycarb tubes. and roll down within the tube. teleop balls are scored, but dont roll down as far. points go as follows.
- snip -
what do you guys think?
Sounds like Lunacy with stationary goals. ;)
See now I thought bout that for this year's minibot race. You would say that you could deploy it at anytime you wanted but scoring would be in reverse order: 1st to score got 5 then 10 then 15 then 20; but there would be no scoring after the match was over. So, yes you could get guaranteed points but you would be giving your opponent the chance for more.Bill's Blog said that the GDC actually considered this, and (I think?) discussed it with some teams, but eventually rejected it.
staplemonx
06-05-2011, 12:42
And FRC DOESN'T have politics?
Maybe, just maybe, those three companies put in a joint bid on the project. Maybe, just maybe, they weren't forced to by politics--Boeing put in a bid for the same project and AFAIK didn't have a major second player.
As far as FRC and politics, don't get me started--they've said and done a few rather impolitic things with regards to various areas, trying to play politics.
fair point.
If I remember correctly I think it is, from Dean saying they are trying to integrate the FIRST programs (FRC, FTC, FLL, etc.). At least get them to work together more. Plus the Minibots did add an interesting element to gameplay
A maze game would be interesting, where a host bot(FRC) releases a minibot(FTC) into a maze that sits above or next to the main playing field. All along the way knocking something off of a ledge to the host bot which is then used to score.
Dean also put a lot of emphasis on how boeing had an unlimited KOP, no restrictions to what a minibot can be made out of next year?
So maybe we will be working with FLL teams next year, that would work well for a maze type endgame involving a minibot. And what do you mean about boeing?
bdon2751
11-05-2011, 14:48
I dunno...they've run out of mainstream sports to do.
ie. 2006 - Aim High (Basketball)
2007 - Rack 'n Roll (Not a sport)
2008 - Overdrive (NASCAR)
2009 - Lunacy (Not a sport)
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion (Not a sport)
2012 - Sport?
Football would be sick. And just stating this but Lunacy was compared heavily to basketball so that could be speculated. Outside of a sport though with FIRST and Dean Kamen's mind combined with Woodie Flowers' and now Will.I.Am as well.
A variation on the constantly proposed "water game" - hockey? (Maybe not on real ice...)
Football would be difficult to abstract into a FIRST game, IMO...
So maybe we will be working with FLL teams next year, that would work well for a maze type endgame involving a minibot. And what do you mean about boeing?
Dean called attention to Boeing not having a kit of parts--or a 6-week build season--at Championship.
He's right. They don't. They have something much, much worse:
Endless possibilities and a bit of time combined with Red tape. (How long you define "bit" to be is, well, up to you and/or the project they're working on.)
In the course of looking for mentor gifts, this was found: http://www.twopencildesigns.com/shop/product.php?id_product=20
Just throwing this out there.
Robby Unruh
13-05-2011, 08:43
In the course of looking for mentor gifts, this was found: http://www.twopencildesigns.com/shop/product.php?id_product=20
Just throwing this out there.
That's the VEX game field for 2012.::rtm::
That's the VEX game field for 2012.::rtm::
Oops. :eek:
The field center piece:
http://hotrfm.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/mayan_el_castilo.jpg
NotSoSiniSter
14-05-2011, 12:45
My only wish for next years game is it to not revolve around handling one object at a time. 09 was 1 soccer ball, this year was 1 tube. I think a cool challenge lies within handling a mass amount of smaller objects efficiently inside of a robot. :D
My only wish for next years game is it to not revolve around handling one object at a time. 09 was 1 soccer ball, this year was 1 tube. I think a cool challenge lies within handling a mass amount of smaller objects efficiently inside of a robot. :D
Playpen balls?
Andrew Lawrence
14-05-2011, 13:31
My only wish for next years game is it to not revolve around handling one object at a time. 09 was 1 soccer ball, this year was 1 tube. I think a cool challenge lies within handling a mass amount of smaller objects efficiently inside of a robot. :D
Weren't the soccer balls used in Breakaway, the game of 2010? 2009 was Lunacy.
yarden.saa
15-05-2011, 02:21
I have great idea!
a squre field(38X38 feet) the same size.
3 alliances of two robots per alliance.(6 robots)
the winning alliance gets to the CMP(only two winners)
driver station will be at 3 sides of the square.
the forth side will be open to the crowd(someone need to see the game)
the robots start infront of the two other alliance stations.(mixed start)
I am not sure about the game but this can be really good idea for every game (it's refreshing design)
the game:
the robots need to shoot ball to a target. if you scored you can set put the minibot to 10 seconds in a maze; the minibot can score points in the maze.
after the 10 seconds the minibot must return to the hostbot.
Playpen balls?
That may make the Robonauts regret getting rid of the refuse from Operation Playhouse :p
Morality
19-05-2011, 10:01
I still like the hockey idea (coming from a 12 year player). the "checking" could be very interesting, along with the scoring of the goals. Goalie, anyone? :)
notmattlythgoe
19-05-2011, 10:55
What about a game that has two different game pieces that you have to put together. Maybe PVC pipes with magnets on the end that you have to slide into a hole and attach it to a piece that has another magnet that is in the hole. Then pull it back out and place it somewhere else, maybe on a steel scoring plate. Each PVC pipe is a point, but if it has the second piece on it it is worth 3 points.
You know what would be cool? Robot bowling.
You know what would be cool? Robot bowling.
You mean like this?
Lego NXT Wii Bowling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUvind4t7Pk)
:]
LemmingBot
23-05-2011, 08:06
We need more mini-bots, and they should be carrying an even smaller robot that will then preform a short song and dance routine.
Zuelu562
23-05-2011, 10:39
We need more mini-bots, and they should be carrying an even smaller robot that will then preform a short song and dance routine.
Emphasis mine.
At BattleCry, they showed a preview video, and they told us it was a sight of next year's game, and it was heavily implied robots would have to dance, maybe sing. I'm not convinced, I swear I've seen that video before...
I have a solution for the Water Game needs.
Robots "make" water by picking up little different sized and colored balls labled H, for Hydrogen, and O, for Oxygen. They then have to put them in little goals to make water. The actual scoring method could be changed, thats all i could think of doing besides dumping them into giant goals. maybe have bonuses if your giant goal ends with a 2:1 ratio of Hydrogen to Oxygen. Just my thoughts.
I have a solution for the Water Game needs.
Robots "make" water by picking up little different sized and colored balls labled H, for Hydrogen, and O, for Oxygen. They then have to put them in little goals to make water. The actual scoring method could be changed, thats all i could think of doing besides dumping them into giant goals. maybe have bonuses if your giant goal ends with a 2:1 ratio of Hydrogen to Oxygen. Just my thoughts.
OH GOD DON'T DO IT. Our team participates in a robotics competition called BEST (I know FIRST isn't a fan..) and the 2010 game was to make different types of stuff such as water. Needless to say.. it was horrible. The rules were difficult, the scoring was awful. I would not be a fan.
You mean like this?
Lego NXT Wii Bowling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUvind4t7Pk)
:]
That's pretty cool. But my idea of bowling is the type you see at arcades
Roll ball > concentric circles etc
Here's a picture:http://www.appstoreapps.com/images/apps/arcadebowling-thumbnail.png
Honestly, it would be a spin off of '10s game but cool nevertheless
OH GOD DON'T DO IT. Our team participates in a robotics competition called BEST (I know FIRST isn't a fan..) and the 2010 game was to make different types of stuff such as water. Needless to say.. it was horrible. The rules were difficult, the scoring was awful. I would not be a fan.
hahahaha. I think FIRST could probably make it a better game, but my game idea wasnt trying to really focus on making water, just more of collecting little game pieces.
I still like the hockey idea (coming from a 12 year player). the "checking" could be very interesting, along with the scoring of the goals. Goalie, anyone? :)I've posted an idea for a hockey game in the Game Design forum if you're interested ... ::rtm::
LemmingBot
25-05-2011, 09:01
Emphasis mine.
At BattleCry, they showed a preview video, and they told us it was a sight of next year's game, and it was heavily implied robots would have to dance, maybe sing. I'm not convinced, I swear I've seen that video before...
Ok it cant just be me who imagined Rumble/Frenzy in a tux right?
kinganu123
26-05-2011, 22:22
How about a tennis playing game? Like 3 on 3 robot tennis, it would be pretty epic lol
donnie99
30-05-2011, 21:34
How about like the moon balls had the attached trailer, that holds something, and play a game where the objective is like laser tag, who ever gets hit the most loses. The number of time an alliance hits their opponents would be there score plus a bonus for winning. A final challenge would be targets on the opposite side of the field and would be like this year's race game, first to hit gets most bonus points. It would combine the shooter bots, this year's endgame, and a new idea. It would haven to change for the hitting opponents, but very cool.
Tori Stingray
02-06-2011, 23:22
This would be something to see....
Indeed it would
torihoelscher
04-06-2011, 01:28
I dunno...they've run out of mainstream sports to do.
ie. 2006 - Aim High (Basketball)
2007 - Rack 'n Roll (Not a sport)
2008 - Overdrive (NASCAR)
2009 - Lunacy (Not a sport)
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion (Not a sport)
2012 - Sport?
I thought logomotion had something to do with hockey? When I looked up information about this year's events it seemed to be focused on hockey. I wondered if we were shoving around tube hockey pucks or something. lol
dudefise
05-06-2011, 01:10
How about a tennis playing game? Like 3 on 3 robot tennis, it would be pretty epic lol
It would seem that tennis fits the trend. COrrect me if i'm wrong, but these things seem to go in a cycle so next year should be a sport involving launching multiple smaller game objects?
donnie99
05-06-2011, 20:17
It would seem that tennis fits the trend. COrrect me if i'm wrong, but these things seem to go in a cycle so next year should be a sport involving launching multiple smaller game objects?
There are many trends that people have come up with from the past years, so it's hard to tell what FIRST will do. People have said sports, ball game pieces and not, and a few others. FIRST will probably see this trend and do something completely off trend.
So after a little reading on Bill's Blog, I noticed that he said " The Engineering team has been busy prototyping the game elements" To me at least this implies there may be more than one game element and that they may be an original creation of first.
gyroscopeRaptor
11-06-2011, 16:14
There are many trends that people have come up with from the past years, so it's hard to tell what FIRST will do. People have said sports, ball game pieces and not, and a few others. FIRST will probably see this trend and do something completely off trend.
From FIRST games, the only trend I see is that the games are different each year (even that has an exception in the compilation games) so don't expect them to follow a pattern. You can guess that after not using a piece for a while they may use it again (even that doesn't hold up if you check the time difference between Aim High and Lunacy or Rack and Roll and Logomotion)
The pattern I follow with predictions is that there is none.
That sounds highly probable.
Kestin Goforth
15-06-2011, 18:28
Members of my team and I often joke around about how the pattern has been sport, non-sport, sport, non-sport... for a very long time, so our ideas have been: Skydiving, swimming, and gymnastics. Of course that would would be fun and impossible.
I think if they chose swimming, every electrical person would just quit.
Micah Chetrit
15-06-2011, 18:41
I think if they chose swimming, every electrical person would just quit.
Not me, I would be having fun. I mean, how many people have to waterproof electronics? I think it would be a fun challenge.
hmm...I should make my computer waterproof...efficient cooling...:P
Kestin Goforth
15-06-2011, 19:11
I think it would be a fun challenge.
It would be fun, more fun than any other game perhaps, but near impossible in 6 weeks, although every other game is too...
Water game scenario and the LUNACY corrollary: just as LUNACY "simulated" low gravity with regolith, could water (higher density) be simulated with a layer of small objects on the arena floor making maneuvering a challenge? Then, the "water" pieces could stick to the game pieces (weak velcro?) and simulate the challenge of manipulating a "wet" gamepiece? Just like water can get into small crevaces, the game's "water" pieces would get all into the machinery of the robots. Quite a "simulated" challenge. Need to design robot with some seal against that?
Would like to see how the arena caretakers and shippers could manage the "simulated water" throughout the season.
Just hoping to promote the idea of a "water" game. . .
Water game scenario and the LUNACY corrollary: just as LUNACY "simulated" low gravity with regolith, could water (higher density) be simulated with a layer of small objects on the arena floor making maneuvering a challenge? Then, the "water" pieces could stick to the game pieces (weak velcro?) and simulate the challenge of manipulating a "wet" gamepiece? Just like water can get into small crevaces, the game's "water" pieces would get all into the machinery of the robots. Quite a "simulated" challenge. Need to design robot with some seal against that?
Would like to see how the arena caretakers and shippers could manage the "simulated water" throughout the season.
Just hoping to promote the idea of a "water" game. . .
LOVE IT!!!:D :D :D
Water game scenario and the LUNACY corrollary: just as LUNACY "simulated" low gravity with regolith, could water (higher density) be simulated with a layer of small objects on the arena floor making maneuvering a challenge? Then, the "water" pieces could stick to the game pieces (weak velcro?) and simulate the challenge of manipulating a "wet" gamepiece? Just like water can get into small crevaces, the game's "water" pieces would get all into the machinery of the robots. Quite a "simulated" challenge. Need to design robot with some seal against that?
Would like to see how the arena caretakers and shippers could manage the "simulated water" throughout the season.
Just hoping to promote the idea of a "water" game. . .
Perhaps small plastic beads?
Perhaps small plastic beads?
or corn?
Peyton Yeung
17-06-2011, 18:03
Perhaps small plastic beads?
And then our victors die....
And then our victors die....
All part of the challenge :D
PAR_WIG1350
18-06-2011, 23:28
Perhaps small plastic beads?
I see gearbox mayhem if this were to be the game. Enclosed gearboxes would be fine, but AM shifters, toughbox nanos and nano tubes, and many custom/modified gearboxes would become bead grinders. Then the dust and broken bead bits would get in the grease and... it wouldn't be pretty. :yikes:
I see gearbox mayhem if this were to be the game. Enclosed gearboxes would be fine, but AM shifters, toughbox nanos and nano tubes, and many custom/modified gearboxes would become bead grinders. Then the dust and broken bead bits would get in the grease and... it wouldn't be pretty. :yikes:
Duct Tape? Maybe it actually has a use.
Andrew Lawrence
19-06-2011, 00:06
Duct Tape? Maybe it actually has a use.
I'd love to see the day when duct tape is a game piece. The game? Use the rolls of duct tape to complete some sort of task!
emekablue
19-06-2011, 12:22
Perhaps small plastic beads?
How about giant peanuts!? http://sustainabledesignupdate.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/packing-peanuts-via-kartooner.jpg
Robert Cawthon
21-06-2011, 13:50
I'd love to see the day when duct tape is a game piece. The game? Use the rolls of duct tape to complete some sort of task!
Yes! Love the idea! Not sure what, though!
Using duct tape as a game piece...how about the end game being who can get the longest strip of duct tape on the ground?
hcps-maxwelltd
23-06-2011, 20:49
in reply to the sport theme, there is still hockey and football... i would LOVE to see a hockey game with that, the possibilities are outstanding. like maybe a unified game manipulator (not like the lunacy wheels of death) and then you get into some really cool designs to manipulate it to scoring points... idk how the new minibot idea would fit in
i agree i would like to see a Hockey like game for next year it would be a chalenge but it would be fun for hockey and robotics fans:D :cool:
I think it is pretty clear we are going to see the minibot again, but I feel very confident it will require code next year.
I could easily see next years challenge require you to balance you minibot, this way teams who helped out with FTC this year have a leg up.
Bjenks548
24-06-2011, 10:13
I think it is pretty clear we are going to see the minibot again, but I feel very confident it will require code next year.
I could easily see next years challenge require you to balance you minibot, this way teams who helped out with FTC this year have a leg up.
And a big disadvantage in Michigan, where there are no FTC competitions. If the minibots become too much like FTC bots Michigan might be in trouble.
MagiChau
24-06-2011, 11:37
Using duct tape as a game piece...how about the end game being who can get the longest strip of duct tape on the ground?
That would be a mess to clean up. After all, duct tape holds the universe together.
I think it is pretty clear we are going to see the minibot again, but I feel very confident it will require code next year.
I could easily see next years challenge require you to balance you minibot, this way teams who helped out with FTC this year have a leg up.
although i agree with you on a minibot showing up in next years game, i don't think it will require code. building ONE robot in 6 weeks is trouble enough for some teams and for the game to remain competitive at all in large scale (that is allow smaller teams or teams with fewer resources to be competitive) the minibot would need to remain simple. i know from experience on my team that the initial design of the minibot and production of a minibot actually took longer to build than the actual robot, not to mention all the other tweaks we did to it after build season.
if the minibot had more complications to it, like code, then smaller teams would not be able to compete with the large teams that have a vast amount of resources.
I think that future minibots will virtually require code to be competitive. However, it will be possible to get a non-code solution, which may or may not be better than the code solutions.
However, it will be whatever code the NXT (or chosen processing unit) runs, which isn't the same as FRC coding necessarily.
For those hockey lovers out there: 2009 was bad enough flooring wise; I could go with a street-hockey version, though.
exactly but for second year of minibots in the FRC competitions i don't think that the GDC would take such a big step between years like that
exactly but for second year of minibots in the FRC competitions i don't think that the GDC would take such a big step between years like that
You mean a step like going from the blue box driver's station to the Classmate between 2009 and 2010? Or the control system change the year before (though that had advance warning)? Or the staggered robot size/weight in 2007 (which sadly vanished the next year)? That type of step has happened before, though there was only one robot to worry about then.
NEVER underestimate the GDC like that. Next thing you know, one of them spots that post and says, "Oh, really? Hey guys, look at this! What do you think?" or something similar, and then they take exactly that step.
ChristopherSD
27-06-2011, 11:27
I'll take anything that doesn't involve tubes.
Discs would be cool. Every FIRST team throws a Frisbee around at lunch...
You mean a step like going from the blue box driver's station to the Classmate between 2009 and 2010? Or the control system change the year before (though that had advance warning)? Or the staggered robot size/weight in 2007 (which sadly vanished the next year)? That type of step has happened before, though there was only one robot to worry about then.
NEVER underestimate the GDC like that. Next thing you know, one of them spots that post and says, "Oh, really? Hey guys, look at this! What do you think?" or something similar, and then they take exactly that step.
sort of? but the classmate switch and the control system switch were relatively easy because these major changes were already pre-programmed and pretty much ready to use without much difficulty (at least thats how it appeared on my team) but adding more code to a second robot would cause more complications
and trust me. i know that nothing is out of the imagination of the GDC. honestly who thought we'd have to build a miniature robot to but on our larger robot and then have it function outside that zone?
The NXT unit also serves as the speed controller for the Tetrix motors. Part of my thoughts is the GDC looked at all those batteries wired strait to motors and had safety concerns.
Maybe the minibot will be 2009s super cells next year in order to make up for the added difficulty. It would be helpful to score, but a rookie bot could rack up points in other ways while you are deploying.
Alrighty then. . .
There were various suggestions on "water" simulation material. How about the kiddie ball pit . . . BAZINGA ! !
Alrighty then. . .
There were various suggestions on "water" simulation material. How about the kiddie ball pit . . . BAZINGA ! !
That would be interesting, although rookie teams will have a hard time trying to figure out how to make their robot move around in all of these little balls. Unless, the little ball pit were on the side of the field where veteran teams would somehow score extra points by maybe finding something at the bottom or getting across purely as an endgame scenario. However, I find it hard to see putting the ball pit in during the main portion of the game.
*water proof minibots?
What about being able to sort playpen ball?
What about being able to sort playpen ball?
like sort them into different colors? That'd be really interesting since it would be such a touchy game piece and (potentially) difficult to master the game since a light sensor would most likely be required and then the field lighting would also play a significant role. but FIRST and the GDC has used the FRC game to promote new products (FTC and the light sensor, to a lesser degree, this year)
i would personally like a more sport-like game. i thought Breakaway did a good job as an FRC game and as a representation that FIRST is a sport. simple enough for casual spectators to understand yet complicated enough to provide a good challenge
Peyton Yeung
01-07-2011, 10:39
Alrighty then. . .
There were various suggestions on "water" simulation material. How about the kiddie ball pit . . . BAZINGA ! !
Then 118 would already have supplies for their field.
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/05/operation-playhouse.html
Tommy.Brown
05-07-2011, 19:23
This years game was similar to one from the past. I am not sure which year, but the competition involved placing tubes on a rack in the center of the playing field. I would not be surprised if next years game was similar to a game that was played a few years back.
2007 was itself partially based on the 1997 game. These are the only times that a game has been seen to be based on another game, even loosely.
GCentola
05-07-2011, 19:35
This years game was similar to one from the past. I am not sure which year, but the competition involved placing tubes on a rack in the center of the playing field. I would not be surprised if next years game was similar to a game that was played a few years back.
You would be speaking about 2007's Rack'n'Roll, which I just learned was based of of 97.
Comparisons can be made between multiple games, but it would seem safe to say that FIRST likes movable goals!
PAR_WIG1350
05-07-2011, 22:11
You would be speaking about 2007's Rack'n'Roll, which I just learned was based of of 97.
Comparisons can be made between multiple games, but it would seem safe to say that FIRST likes movable goals!
years with movable goals:
2009 (most recent)
2007 (chained to ground, but could move and swing)
2004
2002
2001
1999 (the puck)
1997 (rotated)
yep, definitely one of the more common game elements.
theprgramerdude
17-07-2011, 18:05
Although the move to the new Crio system may be solely based on making it cheaper to buy and support with more modern hardware, I'd think FIRST would like to take advantage of the upgraded memory and put a large emphasis on video processing for scoring in this game, like they did with the Breakaway targets in 2010.
Micah Chetrit
17-07-2011, 19:12
Although the move to the new Crio system may be solely based on making it cheaper to buy and support with more modern hardware, I'd think FIRST would like to take advantage of the upgraded memory and put a large emphasis on video processing for scoring in this game, like they did with the Breakaway targets in 2010.
The thing with that is so few of the smaller/rookie/inexperienced teams can do it right if at all. That is simply too great of a challenge for many of the teams. I think there will be that option, but not a whole lot of emphasis if you ask me.
The NI vision assistant basically writes the vision code for you now(with the NI labview vision example code and videos what isn't written for you could follow their model to get it working). I dont think it is hard to expect rookies to be able to use vision. You could say coordinating multiple motors using different speed controllers over a wifi network is impossible for rookie/smaller teams(On paper it seems like an insurmountable challenge). But, teams have to do it every year with the help of the FIRST examples.
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/07/its-good-thing-ben-jerrys-delivers.html
Derek, Rob and Monica are behind closed doors testing prototypes and finalizing designs for the 2012 field elements
Bill spilled the beans! there WILL be field elements this year! :D
So much for any empty field ideas.
JamesBrown
18-07-2011, 11:24
That would be interesting, although rookie teams will have a hard time trying to figure out how to make their robot move around in all of these little balls. Unless, the little ball pit were on the side of the field where veteran teams would somehow score extra points by maybe finding something at the bottom or getting across purely as an endgame scenario. However, I find it hard to see putting the ball pit in during the main portion of the game.
I am curious why you singled out rookie teams. I would imagine all teams would have trouble figuring out how to move around in a pit full of balls. It may be more of an equalizer than a problem for rookies, advantages to older teams come when there is a similarity to an older game, or when old design lessons can be reapplied. To my knowledge no team has a design that would effectively move through a ball pit.
Sourceofhotair
19-07-2011, 12:45
I remember the FRC design commitee saying something about "blacking out" the driver stations for the end game @ Atlanta '10, honestly i think that would be pretty awesome and scary at the same time.
Sourceofhotair
19-07-2011, 13:02
i had an idea that i think would be pretty sweet. what if during autonomous, teams scored very light weight inflatable or foam balls on a grid. then the goal of teleopp is to duplicate as closely as possible the same pattern, using 18 lbs bowling balls. expand auton to 30 or 45 seconds, and the fact that the bowling balls weigh a lot. i immagine a six sided grid in the middle of the field. auton balls are scored into polycarb tubes. and roll down within the tube. teleop balls are scored, but dont roll down as far. points go as follows.
auton balls are worth 1 on low, 2 on mid, and 3 on high rows in the grid.
teleopp balls are worth 1 on low, 2 on mid, and 3 on top
a pair, of teleop and auton balls, is worth 2 on botom, 4 in midle, and 6 on top.
in the last 15 seconds. teams have the chance to deploy a pre loaded, 1 per team super ball.
a super ball is worth 6 points anywhere
2 superballs on top of each other (requiring 2 robots to score them) is worth 18 points.
what do you guys think?
unfortunately, lifting bowling balls would be a very bad idea (what if they drop on robots) accidents like that could determine winners of regionals nd such
Next years's game pieces:
http://images.zesco.com/pimages/684/684-d-112_200group.jpg
Any dropped and broken item is an automatic red card :p
-------
The goal to place the game pieces in:
http://www.stoneparts.com/Products/4172117.jpg
A 15 x 15 Dishwasher Rack.
We'll let the GDC sit on that one for the 2013 game.
purpleandplasma
19-07-2011, 15:02
i doubt it'll happen, but my friend and i talked to Bill at the LV regional, and we suggested basketball, which would be crazy hard, but super fun! most kids on my team think that there will be another Mini-bot.
princessnatalie
19-07-2011, 18:22
Has anyone considered a golf based game?
Maybe they had us make mini-bots so we could get used to working with smaller materials.
Similar to golf, I was actually thinking of a billiards type of game, with 6 goals. In one of Bill's blogs he emphasized "pool." Of course that triggers thoughts about a water game, but I think the closest FIRST will come to a water game is ice. I definitely think there will be minibots involved though, considering this year's success.
PAR_WIG1350
22-07-2011, 15:30
I find it strange how Bill mentioned knowing enough about the game too remind everybody to buy pool noodles. Does this mean that in the future they might not use bumpers? Different bumpers? Or maybe this year we are using MORE POOL NOODLES:yikes: . If it is the latter, is the game going to be more aggressive (thus requiring more bumpers) or are pool noodles the game pieces? Or maybe they are adding a third alliance and teams will need to make a third set of bumpers...
Micah Chetrit
22-07-2011, 16:12
...Or maybe they are adding a third alliance and teams will need to make a third set of bumpers...
Three alliances would be awesome!
avanboekel
22-07-2011, 16:16
I find it strange how Bill mentioned knowing enough about the game too remind everybody to buy pool noodles. Does this mean that in the future they might not use bumpers? Different bumpers? Or maybe this year we are using MORE POOL NOODLES:yikes: . If it is the latter, is the game going to be more aggressive (thus requiring more bumpers) or are pool noodles the game pieces? Or maybe they are adding a third alliance and teams will need to make a third set of bumpers...
Pool noodles because we are going to need to float, duh!:p On a seriousish note, my guess is that he is referring to a high contact game (wide open field?), or a 3rd alliance. I'm hoping the first of the 2. Making 2 sets of bumpers is already enough of a pain!
mickey d's 71
24-07-2011, 13:17
i am going with end of the world theme mayan architecture game would be you and alliance build mayan pyramid in middle of field to make it interesting only one pyramid can be made between the two alliances and each block will be either blue or red and whoever has the top tier of the pyramid in there color gets an extra bonus
another would be a pyramid is in the center of the field and u have to climb it and bring down scoring bins kinda and take it to your side fill it up and empty it on opposing alliance side for points
i am going with end of the world theme mayan architecture game would be you and alliance build mayan pyramid in middle of field to make it interesting only one pyramid can be made between the two alliances and each block will be either blue or red and whoever has the top tier of the pyramid in there color gets an extra bonus
another would be a pyramid is in the center of the field and u have to climb it and bring down scoring bins kinda and take it to your side fill it up and empty it on opposing alliance side for points
That sounds a lot like the 2003 game Stack Attack and would most likely involve the death-spins and destruction that resulted in 2003
BigDaddyKane527
24-07-2011, 20:32
I believe that the 2012 FRC Game is going to be based on Hockey. This would introduce a new game piece and would bring back the field from Lunacy.
and would bring back the field from Lunacy.
I can hear everyone at every regional kick off collectively groan now.
build mayan pyramid in middle of field
those pyramids have a lot of stairs. I think I heard of some one interested in robots that climb stairs....
iBot Stairs (http://youtu.be/WH5AA7okoFQ)
Segway Stairs (http://youtu.be/PALPdh-5zrw)
Maybe your onto something
stevenest
25-07-2011, 06:06
This illustration is quite fuuny actually but quite apt to the situation.
if FIRST really wants to grow into the "sport of the mind" like Dean keeps saying I think that the GDC needs to design a game thats loosely based on a sport more than a game designed without that in mind. Simplicity is key. Breakaway I think is a great example of this. The scoring system was simple (no logos to create double multipliers or ubertubes), the game was easy to follow and to keep track (no trailers filled with unidentifiable amounts of moon rocks), and the games were very exciting whether the score was 5-3 or 21-20. If FIRST is too succeed as a sport it needs to be simple so that casual fans can just pick up watching it and understand pretty quickly what's going on (the puck goes in the net, the ball needs to get through the hoop). Hopefully this years game will be along those lines.
Andrew Lawrence
25-07-2011, 10:46
if FIRST really wants to grow into the "sport of the mind" like Dean keeps saying I think that the GDC needs to design a game thats loosely based on a sport more than a game designed without that in mind. Simplicity is key. Breakaway I think is a great example of this. The scoring system was simple (no logos to create double multipliers or ubertubes), the game was easy to follow and to keep track (no trailers filled with unidentifiable amounts of moon rocks), and the games were very exciting whether the score was 5-3 or 21-20. If FIRST is too succeed as a sport it needs to be simple so that casual fans can just pick up watching it and understand pretty quickly what's going on (the puck goes in the net, the ball needs to get through the hoop). Hopefully this years game will be along those lines.
I hope that the FRC 2012 game is EXACTLY how you described it. Breakaway was my all-time favorite game, and I loved how it was easy for not only robotics members, but also people watching it to understand what's going on. Plus.....the possible sponsors loved it!
I'm going to go out throw out something completely crazy.
We all know that the Olympics are coming next year, and many people have speculated a tie in. It wouldn't be much in the spirit of things to base an Olympics game off of just one sport. After all, the Olympics is judged by which Country (alliance if you will) competes the best overall in several completely different games. So, rather than having one game where the best robots do essentially the exact same thing, you instead have three completely separate, and fully fleshed out, ways of scoring. To win the match, your alliance must outscore the opposing alliance in 2 of the 3 games.
Each robot can participate in as many of the separate parts of the game as they choose or as few. Teams will experience the build season challenge of trying to be really good at just one of the games, or building a robot than can do it all. A greater level of parity will be created by incorporating several games because even the best robots will have to choose between spreading their offense out (risk losing all three) or concentrating on one individual game (only guarantee 1). Autonomous will be played game-by-game, as well as endgame. Unlike this year, robots should have the opportunity to better utilize defensive bots.
I cannot say for sure what each of these three games should be, but I can suggest symbolism. One game should incorporate FIRST's past, Maize Craze, to show how far FIRST has come. One should incorporate FIRST's present, the Olympic tie in, to show FIRST's impact now. One should incorporate the future, no idea how, to show what FIRST still wants to achieve.
Would this game create a challenge for even the oldest FRC teams? Yes
Would this game be chaotic and fun to watch? hopefully
Would this game be a nightmare to scout? Absolutely!
Would this game present endless strategic possibility, while maintain simplistic outcomes? Yes!!!!!
Would this game make alliance selections absoultly vital to succeed? Yes
This idea of mine seemed better and better the more I thought of it. I hope you enjoyed reading it. I know I enjoyed writing it.
P.S. If a game like this is ever created, I hope FIRST would allow the use of interchangeable robot parts that exceed the 120 lb limit.
Andrew Lawrence
27-07-2011, 19:15
This has absolutely nothing with what's been said, but my team thought it would be interesting to recreate Overdrive, but make it more like a MarioKart game. Though we got into wild ideas such as throwing bananas, and pressure plates that would increase your speed, I think it would be at least an interesting idea. There was also a suggestion of making the track something other than an oval. Maybe a few more turns, or something of the sort.
That idea would be confusing to watch,scout,build.:ahh: I agree that a simple game would be best. I like the sound of the hockey game. Where people can watch and not be confused.:D
Maybe we should start the 2013 game design thread since the GDC is already pretty much decided on next year :o
But seriously, I would like to see a game that has a single focus. Something I have noticed about recent FIRST games is that there is so much action it is hard to watch. One of the strengths of traditional sports is that they only have one focus of attention making it easy for a new viewer to understand what's going on. Maybe FIRST should take a few cues there.
Andrew Lawrence
27-07-2011, 20:11
Maybe we should start the 2013 game design thread since the GDC is already pretty much decided on next year :o
But seriously, I would like to see a game that has a single focus. Something I have noticed about recent FIRST games is that there is so much action it is hard to watch. One of the strengths of traditional sports is that they only have one focus of attention making it easy for a new viewer to understand what's going on. Maybe FIRST should take a few cues there.
This is exactly how Breakaway (My favorite game) was played! I think FIRST should continue making games based off of other sports, while adding their own twist to them, like they've been doing.
That idea would be confusing to watch,scout,build.:ahh: I agree that a simple game would be best. I like the sound of the hockey game. Where people can watch and not be confused.:D
I think I might have made the most complex game ever conceived. I'm not sure anyone would be able to follow my game and that would not be good. It is what happens when something pops into your mind while on CD and you know just the thread to put it in.
princessnatalie
27-07-2011, 23:11
More bumpers = high contact
high contact = hockey.
More bumpers = high contact
high contact = hockey.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bad Lunacy memories :ahh:
Andrew Lawrence
27-07-2011, 23:46
More bumpers = high contact
high contact = hockey.
hockey=slippery surface
slippery surface=regolith
regolith= (I try not to think of that)
All in all, I like the idea of a Hockey game, but I don't like the idea of regolith, and unfortunately hockey = regolith through the math property that applies to this whose name I forgot. All in all, while hockey would be fun, regolith would not be fun, and that would make everybody unhappy.
I'm hoping for a simple, sports-based game similar to 2010, but something that's NOT hockey.
Sorry Princess! (Your Mario is in another castle!) :p
princessnatalie
28-07-2011, 00:04
Feild hockey. Beach Hockey. Street hockey = not regolith.
Andrew Lawrence
28-07-2011, 00:41
Feild hockey. Beach Hockey. Street hockey = not regolith.
true, true. Though I have to admit I've never heard of beach hockey. Robots playing on sand.....
Not sure how a sand game would work? I'm guessing it would be worse than Regolith floor?
Andrew Lawrence
28-07-2011, 10:19
I just realized something. It's the end of July, and I'm spending a lot of time on this thread. Kick off isn't until January. Does that mean that this thread will have to wait 6 months to find out what the game is? 6 months of guessing? Maybe this thread can wait until at least October/November, closer to when the hints are released.
Peyton Yeung
28-07-2011, 11:26
I personally think that robots looked the most diverse (and somewhat cooler) in games like 2001 and 2004 where there were many ways of scoring.
2001-scoring blackballs in trailers, scoring big balls on top of trailers, trailers on bridge, bridge balancing
2004-scoring little yellow and purple balls into trailers, scoring double balls, feeding human players with balls, hanging
It seems like in the games that had more ways to score, there were more diverse ways of accomplishing each task.
I'd personally like to see more games like 2001 or 2004
Maybe a game that has an end game in which to score maximum points a robot must lift another robot up to reach a pole to hang on (combination of 2007 and 2004/2010.
it's gonna be a water game...of course :)
...i hope it's football this year :) that would be interesting
on topic of the hockey-like game....
i think it would be cool to have a breakaway style goal system with goals on opposite sides of the field but instead of two goals at the corners have one giant goal across the entire driver's station. it would be an issue to have the goal around where the drive teams stand but it would be a lot harder to build a strictly defensive robot
jdunston94
28-07-2011, 23:32
I dunno...they've run out of mainstream sports to do.
ie. 2006 - Aim High (Basketball)
2007 - Rack 'n Roll (Not a sport)
2008 - Overdrive (NASCAR)
2009 - Lunacy (Not a sport)
2010 - Breakaway (Soccer)
2011 - Logomotion (Not a sport)
2012 - Sport?
lacrosse?
rmhooks573
29-07-2011, 08:51
lacrosse?
oh they can think of something. they used nascar and turned it into the springs most favorite thing in '08...well at least with FIRST people. what about something no one has mentioned like "croquet" or better yet, QUIDITCH!!!
plnyyanks
29-07-2011, 16:32
...or better yet, QUIDITCH!!!
Oh dear.... I really don't look forward to programming our robot to fly. It's hard enough keeping it under control in two dimensions. Nevertheless, a quiditch-resembling game would be pretty cool
Andrew Lawrence
29-07-2011, 16:48
Oh dear.... I really don't look forward to programming our robot to fly. It's hard enough keeping it under control in two dimensions. Nevertheless, a quiditch-resembling game would be pretty cool
Maybe an on the ground version of quditch. Similar to Aim High, but with bludgers and quaffles and a golden snitch as game pieces!
plnyyanks
29-07-2011, 16:54
Maybe an on the ground version of quditch. Similar to Aim High, but with bludgers and quaffles and a golden snitch as game pieces!
Yes, I figured something along those lines. But there always will be one person who goes "Phil! Phil! Make the robot fly, Phil!" however impractical it may be....
2007 was the last time that both alliances scored in the same location. It's long overdue.
Andrew Lawrence
29-07-2011, 17:04
2007 was the last time that both alliances scored in the same location. It's long overdue.
It's been a while, but is it necessary? I've talked to a multitude of people, most of which have said that while they liked the defensive aspect of 2007, most weren't fans of the single sided goals.
Czukkiemonster
04-08-2011, 12:50
Now that the World Championships are over, I think it would be fun to speculate what the next game could be. Will it be something like Lunacy (Moon Landing Anniversary) or Breakaway (World Cup) or something completely out there? My personal opinion is some sort of shooter game, as games usually go in some sort of cycle (shooter, misc. hang/moving). Thoughts?
~100th Anniversary of Boston's Fenway Park after being built in 1912
Baseballs?
~James Bond 007's 50th
Explosives?speed?escaping?
~Titanic's 100th Anniversary 1912 ~ 2012.
~2012: Cuban Missile Crisis (BAY OF PIGS) 50th Anniversary
WWATTTTEEERRRRR GGAMMMMEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
plnyyanks
04-08-2011, 14:39
~James Bond 007's 50th
Explosives?speed?escaping?
There's a lot of cool game possibilities from various Bond gadgets over the years. Just take a look at the list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_James_Bond_gadgets). Remember the submersible Lotus Esprit? WATER GAME?
I could see the Titanic being involved somehow. Redemption for an engineering failure. Maybe it would be like an anti-scoring game where small balls are "leaking" from large containers into opponents scoring areas and the other alliance has to plug up the leak to stop the balls from scoring for the opponent. maybe something timed like 2001?
Czukkiemonster
04-08-2011, 19:12
I could see the Titanic being involved somehow. Redemption for an engineering failure. Maybe it would be like an anti-scoring game where small balls are "leaking" from large containers into opponents scoring areas and the other alliance has to plug up the leak to stop the balls from scoring for the opponent. maybe something timed like 2001?
That is extremely creative ♥♥♥♥ LOVE IT!
drakesword
18-08-2011, 17:37
Not me, I would be having fun. I mean, how many people have to waterproof electronics? I think it would be a fun challenge.
hmm...I should make my computer waterproof...efficient cooling...:P
Us advanced offroad guys do this a lot ... for electro-mechanical components there's a wondrous substance called dielectric grease ... load it up till it oozes out. Connections are checked to be tight and clean then we use some electrical tape around that. Computers are usually fairly well sealed but silicone sealant around the edges never hurt anyone. Motors ... don't use em wet.
A practical waterproof container for electronics could be a modified tupperware container. have a couple holes for power, couple for input/output seal the holes with silicone as well as the top. For extra protection put it up high.
But for most things its lots of tape, grease, and sealant ... no joke I have at least 50lbs in my rig.
klinnastruth
19-08-2011, 11:19
Oh dear.... I really don't look forward to programming our robot to fly. It's hard enough keeping it under control in two dimensions. Nevertheless, a quiditch-resembling game would be pretty cool
Well since we can't very well do the whole flying thing normally, lets just add water to the equation and make a water quiditch game, I mean it would be challenging but very rewarding.
Bjenks548
19-08-2011, 11:36
How about either flying or swimming minibots? It would add the third dimention to the game without teams spending 6 weeks to get a robot to swim.
RayTurner1126
19-08-2011, 18:08
This is how i think FIRST will do a "water" game, just to bug us all:
They will have balls that are deemed Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms, and they will have us make water molecules by putting together two hydrogens with an oxygen some way...
what if FIRST combined both flying and water games so that the field was filled with water and there were only 6 platforms to start and end on. Robots must fly to play the game but be back in their home zones by the end so that when the field shuts off the robots don't plummet to a watery, electronic death!
or maybe a sport related game hopefully :P
Dustin Shadbolt
20-08-2011, 22:00
I just want something easy to explain to anyone coming to watch. It was a little difficult to describe Logomotion compared to breakaway or any other of the sport-themed games.
I just want something easy to explain to anyone coming to watch. It was a little difficult to describe Logomotion compared to breakaway or any other of the sport-themed games.
I agree 100%. it makes bringing non-robotics people to the competitions so much better. It allows them to get into the game and actually be able to follow what is going on and who has the best chance at winning. It's great seeing non-robotics visitors talking to other kids on the team about the game and not just asking questions
TimSchley
21-08-2011, 12:04
I just want something easy to explain to anyone coming to watch. It was a little difficult to describe Logomotion compared to breakaway or any other of the sport-themed games.
While I agree that explaining a sport related game is much easier than describing a weird game like Logomotion, I also know that after telling so many people about the game and explaining it, it got pretty easy for me to say and for other people to understand.
Andrew Lawrence
21-08-2011, 12:14
I'm also +1 for the easy-to-explain sports game! I loved Breakaway, and how it was so simple and understandable by its viewers.
S.P.A.M.er 17
21-08-2011, 12:41
...or better yet, QUIDITCH!!!
Its funny. At the Championship, I was showing a family involved wit FLL around the pits, and had them watch a match while explaining Logomotion to them. When I told them about the minibot race, the dad said "so essentially the minibot is like the Golden Snitch. It gets you a lot points, but doesn't necessarily win you the game." This has been by far the greatest comparison of the minibot race I've ever heard and I'm surprised I never heard it anywhere else.
As for the next game, if there is a lot of action going on, I wouldn't mind explaining what's going on even if the rules are a bit complicated. I think that seeing robots fire projectile game pieces around the field would attract a good portion of the public who don't know what FIRST is.
tl;dr most of the thread but,
my $.02 is the game needs to be simple. The engineering challenge does not have to presented through a complex challenge. A simple game has the same amount of challenge because efficiency becomes important. Think about a simple race game for example. No balls or human players. The fasted robot to do so many laps would win. Now where is the challenge in that? There are so many things that can make a robot faster. Teams that add fly wheels for "sudo regenerative breaking" would have an advantage. Teams that would have pure autonomous robots would do better because of the lack of human hesitation.
There is a reason why sports are enjoyable to watch and play.
Also, the GDC is already done with this year's game and they are working on next year so I hope some simple games come down the line by the time my younger sibling join...
J.Warsoff
23-08-2011, 11:06
how about something that has to do with rally car racing? maybe an offroad type game? would be hard to do but definitely fun.
PAR_WIG1350
23-08-2011, 11:47
I think gap crossing would be a cool thing to do. A 6-18 inch deep 24+ inch wide gap between two ramps in the middle of the field would certainly pose an interesting challenge. Some robots would be able to get themselves across, others would be capable of helping others cross, the rest could still play, they would have to pass through a bottleneck to get to the other side of the field (like the tunnel in 2010).
J.Warsoff
23-08-2011, 11:52
here's another idea:
CURLING!!!
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