2002 Zone Zeal

[zachmartin1806]

Does anyone know where i would be able to find or if there even is a video game animation/description from 2002? I want to get the team thinking outside the box. Any help would be most appreciated.

[EricH]

The kickoff animations started in 2003. There may be a video from the 2002 kickoff...

Do you know kind of how the game was played?

[Billfred]

2002 was the last year there wasn't an official game animation from FIRST--the modern animations Dave Lavery creates began the next year with Stack Attack.

However, YouTube offers some footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOjF01wr01s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmAnkYDUQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4slvnvPHW8

[Koko Ed]

My least favorite game in my years of involvement with FIRST (fortunately I missed out on 2001's game).

[Techhexium]

Here is the kickoff video for the 2002 game:
http://team358.org/history/videos/2002Kickoff.MPG

[zachmartin1806]

Yes I know how the game is played I want a video without the team robots from that year describing the game because I want a clean slate for everyone to think of there own ideas on how to accomplish the goal, to try and get them to think outside the box, for example team 71 from that year.

[Ankit S.]

Was the third robot in an alliance a back-up robot, or is it similar to IRI where that 3rd robot can swap out any time?

[Cory]

Was the third robot in an alliance a back-up robot, or is it similar to IRI where that 3rd robot can swap out any time?

Every robot on the alliance was required to play once in each matchup.

So if you made the finals of a regional, each robot played a minimum of three matches.

[dk5sm5luigi]

You can find the rules here: http://www.first-a-holics.com/competitions/2002/

[rsisk]

2002 was the last year there wasn't an official game animation from FIRST--the modern animations Dave Lavery creates began the next year with Stack Attack.

However, YouTube offers some footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOjF01wr01s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmAnkYDUQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4slvnvPHW8

I notice that the Poofs, Hawaiian Kids, and Bulldogs were dominating. Some things never change :)

[dk5sm5luigi]

I notice that the Poofs, Hawaiian Kids, and Bulldogs were dominating. Some things never change :)

The Grasshoppers were one of the best teams that year. They were able to pick up 20 balls in no time.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

By the way, that is Kevin Kolodziej in the drivers station for Beatty.
As I remember, the idea for the crawler came from a rookie parent. It is important to remember that when brainstorming there are no bad ideas and they can come from anyone.

[Brandon Holley]

I loved the robots that came out of the 2002 game. From 71s most famous machine, to RAGE and Pink's awesome ball hoppers, 95s insane ball pickup, 365s robot that spanned the width of the entire field, and all of the ORIGINAL MINIBOTS!

Good stuff all around.

-Brando

[AdamHeard]

I loved the robots that came out of the 2002 game. From 71s most famous machine, to RAGE and Pink's awesome ball hoppers, 95s insane ball pickup, 365s robot that spanned the width of the entire field, and all of the ORIGINAL MINIBOTS!

Good stuff all around.

-Brando

I loved the purely mechanical minibots. The polycarb rolls were my favorite.

[Chris is me]

While people didn't seem to like the games, and understandably so, seeing pictures and video of great 2001 and 2002 machines is inspiring. I wish FIRST games let people be so off-the-wall and creative now.

[zachmartin1806]

FRC games have never stopped allowing you to do some crazy creative things just look at 469 of 2010.

[Molten]

FRC games have never stopped allowing you to do some crazy creative things just look at 469 of 2010.

They haven't stopped the flow of creative ideas, but they have certainly kinked the hose a bit.

Jason

[JamesCH95]

The Grasshoppers were one of the best teams that year. They were able to pick up 20 balls in no time.

Thanks!

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/944/944492ecc9f8fa58bfe3b3f1173085ae_l.jpg

Feynman was the robot, and like the Physicist he was named for, the robot was much loved and an all-time favorite robot of the team. He was the first FRC robot I worked on, so I'm a little partial... ;)

/thread jack

[zachmartin1806]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/944/944492ecc9f8fa58bfe3b3f1173085ae_l.jpg

Do you know where i could find a video of Feynman in action?

[Joe Ross]

Do you know where i could find a video of Feynman in action?

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnvneun#p/u/12/Sky6pXdfQpc

[Cory]

While people didn't seem to like the games, and understandably so, seeing pictures and video of great 2001 and 2002 machines is inspiring. I wish FIRST games let people be so off-the-wall and creative now.

I don't know why people hated that game.

I thought it was fantastic. If you had me name my favorite robots ever, a large percentage of them would be from 2002. From a design standpoint there was so much cool stuff that year.

[zachmartin1806]

I don't know why people hated that game.

I thought it was fantastic. If you had me name my favorite robots ever, a large percentage of them would be from 2002. From a design standpoint there was so much cool stuff that year.

Even though i wasn't around for the year i completely agree with you.

[Rich Kressly]

wooo
who remembers the 02 UTC New England Regional with Woodie as Emcee?

121, 69, and 103 were able to hold off grasshopper, rage, and others. I'm biased, but what a GREAT set of finals:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7487993905769166259#docid=-2340420343059306153

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7487993905769166259#docid=-6605533266881795495

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7487993905769166259#docid=-4461801710809288310

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7487993905769166259#docid=-2422899785300247888

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7487993905769166259#docid=-2687238361322246

edit...oops, and the final match http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7487993905769166259

[Andy A.]

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnvneun#p/u/12/Sky6pXdfQpc

I was driving that year. Funny story about that video: it was our second practice match at NJ. The first practice match was a little of a letdown because we were still figuring out how to use the robot correctly. The co-driver controlled the roller speed with a pot, and had to keep the rollers spinning fast enough to get the balls in, but not so fast that the balls just shot out the top of the hopper. As we ran the line she had to increase the speed to offset the weight of the balls filling the hopper.

So the first practice match we biff out both lines of balls by running the line way to fast and tossing them all 20 feet in the air, showering first the judges table then the scoring table with balls. Entertaining for the crowd, but not very productive. Second match we were too slow- I ran the line slowly and she ran the rollers slowly. You can tell by the end of the line that the rollers didn't have enough speed to push the last balls into the hopper, and the very last ball didn't get picked up. Of all the runs we did that gobbled up every ball, usually even faster, that's the one run that managed to get videoed and online. It's still impressive looking, but, arg, that stinking ball! It haunts me.

Eventually we got it figured out and went on to have a really good season. We got a play of the day award, and I think a design award for it. Ultimately we lost our regionals to 'bots that controlled the goals, but we sort of saw it coming. It still stands as my favorite 'bot, and one of the best games I've been apart in.

[Chris Hibner]

From an engineering standpoint, Zone Zeal was a pretty cool game.

From a spectator standpoint, it was very boring. I would say 85-90% of the matches my team was involved in that year were over by about the 15 second mark (that's 15 seconds into the match, not 15 seconds to go). I can't speak for matches with other teams since I was usually very busy with my team, but I'm pretty sure it was similar - at least in elims.

I guess the first 15 seconds were insanely exciting, though.

I have virtually all of our division elims and Einstein on VHS. I would love to post it somewhere, but that would require me to find the tape and get the equipment to transfer it to my computer. That's not very likely to happen.

[Mike AA]

From an engineering standpoint, Zone Zeal was a pretty cool game.

From a spectator standpoint, it was very boring. I would say 85-90% of the matches my team was involved in that year were over by about the 15 second mark (that's 15 seconds into the match, not 15 seconds to go). I can't speak for matches with other teams since I was usually very busy with my team, but I'm pretty sure it was similar - at least in elims.

I guess the first 15 seconds were insanely exciting, though.

I have virtually all of our division elims and Einstein on VHS. I would love to post it somewhere, but that would require me to find the tape and get the equipment to transfer it to my computer. That's not very likely to happen.

Sounds like a good weekend project!

[Brandon Holley]

I thought it was fantastic. If you had me name my favorite robots ever, a large percentage of them would be from 2002. From a design standpoint there was so much cool stuff that year.

Totally agree. Teams were all over the map in terms of creativity between how to grab the goals, minibots, ball collectors, strategies....it all just made for an awesome design challenge that was met with tons of creative ideas.

-Brando

[Joe G.]

I don't know why people hated that game.

I thought it was fantastic. If you had me name my favorite robots ever, a large percentage of them would be from 2002. From a design standpoint there was so much cool stuff that year.

I don't think anyone would deny that zone zeal was a fantastic engineering challenge. The problem I see with it is that, in general, the best robots were some of the least interesting to watch. A top-notch goal control robot, like team 71, was a remarkable feat of engineering, but to an uninformed spectator, simply resisted attempts to push it.

[Andy Baker]

I don't know why people hated that game.


I thought the game was great, up until the finals at IRI, when we had an entanglement issue, and the alliance of 71, 111, and 93 was disqualified.

Andy B.

[Tyler Olds]

I thought the game was great, up until the finals at IRI, when we had an entanglement issue, and the alliance of 71, 111, and 93 was disqualified.

Andy B.

Yeah I forget who the referee was for that................

2002 was my sophmore year in FRC and coming from 2001-2004 seasons it was my second favorite (behind 2004). The game involved a lot of strategy on where you were going to go and how and when you were going to position your robot..... A chess match almost. However just like a chess match, it is not always the most exciting thing to watch (though it was almost sad trying to watch teams beat 71 after they grabbed all three goals).

[Kevin Kolodziej]

I thought the game was great, up until the finals at IRI, when we had an entanglement issue, and the alliance of 71, 111, and 93 was disqualified.

Andy B.

Man, I hate it when that happens!! ;)

Thanks for pointing me out, Al! Can't believe that was nearly 10 years ago already!

I agree with Cory though. Some of my all-time favorite robots came from that game. I ran into one of the mentors from Rage just a few weeks ago at IRI and he shared a fun story: 173 was the #1 seed in the division. We (71) were somewhere in the middle of the pack, as we always were that year, as the robot was not designed to score well - just win (and back then, rankings were based on points, not w/l records...we would intentionally restrict one of the arms from extending and purposely grab only 2 of the three goals to help with the ranking situation during qualifying). Some members of 173 didn't want to play with us, but others argued that they'd rather play with us than against us, and that's why they ended up picking us. We literally marched through the finals onto Einstein and then in Finals match 2, SPAM 180 beat us to the goals and pushed us back into the barrier and we ended up bending an axle. We sat out for finals match 3 and 173 went out and proved why they were the #1 seed with one of the best ball harvesters I've ever seen. It was so awesome to see an alliance have that kind of diversity. 66 was the third robot and was vital to both game plans - they would help us stay on track when we'd grab all three goals and when 173 was out, they would play some exceptional defense. Oh..and they had the best of the best of the mini-bots too!

Ah, the good old days...:)

[Nuttyman54]

The Kingman robot that year is one of the legends of FIRST, and one of my all time favorites. Does anyone have video of 60 actually spinning the goals? I've been searching for years, and I've only been able to find 3 videos. 2 are from SVR, and they appear to have mechanical problems, the other is vs 71 (linked above).

[AdamHeard]

The Kingman robot that year is one of the legends of FIRST, and one of my all time favorites. Does anyone have video of 60 actually spinning the goals? I've been searching for years, and I've only been able to find 3 videos. 2 are from SVR, and they appear to have mechanical problems, the other is vs 71 (linked above).

I wish we could lift goals again, heavy goals.

[AcesJames]

After reading through this thread, I got curious, and earlier tonight I pulled 176's 2002 robot off the closet shelf and started rebuilding her.

Man, oh man, is that robot a brute. Here are just a few specs from the bot thus far.

The whole frame is all welded 3/8" or 1/2" thick aluminum angle
It's a 4wd configuration with dually style pneumatic tires (8 wheels total)
It has 2 speed transmissions, 1 CIM per trans, 5fps low gear, 25fps high gear (hearsay from a mentor from 2002)
It has a 360* turret mounted to the top, powered by a drill motor
It has 2 opposing arms with pneumatic claws, driven out by lead screws on drill motors to grab goals
It has an IR tower on top, for autonomous driving


So far, a mentor and I have gotten the top turret taken off, and rewired the drive base and pneumatics and tested it on a work bench with an old control station. Everything seems to work well. The next step is to rewire the turret, remount it, and then put the IR tower back on top, and test the code.

If there's anything I've learned from looking at our old robots, it's that they were definitely built under a lot less constraints, and they were built tough. I don't know if it's true for many other teams as old as 176, but the late 90s and early 2000s were when we built our most mechanically complex robots, because that's when we also had the most mentor/engineer/sponsor support. The welding, CNC work, and complexity of parts we used back then puts our past few recent robots to shame.

[O'Sancheski]

After reading through this thread, I got curious, and earlier tonight I pulled 176's 2002 robot off the closet shelf and started rebuilding her.

Man, oh man, is that robot a brute. Here are just a few specs from the bot thus far.

The whole frame is all welded 3/8" or 1/2" thick aluminum angle
It's a 4wd configuration with dually style pneumatic tires (8 wheels total)
It has 2 speed transmissions, 1 CIM per trans, 5fps low gear, 25fps high gear (hearsay from a mentor from 2002)
It has a 360* turret mounted to the top, powered by a drill motor
It has 2 opposing arms with pneumatic claws, driven out by lead screws on drill motors to grab goals
It has an IR tower on top, for autonomous driving


So far, a mentor and I have gotten the top turret taken off, and rewired the drive base and pneumatics and tested it on a work bench with an old control station. Everything seems to work well. The next step is to rewire the turret, remount it, and then put the IR tower back on top, and test the code.

If there's anything I've learned from looking at our old robots, it's that they were definitely built under a lot less constraints, and they were built tough. I don't know if it's true for many other teams as old as 176, but the late 90s and early 2000s were when we built our most mechanically complex robots, because that's when we also had the most mentor/engineer/sponsor support. The welding, CNC work, and complexity of parts we used back then puts our past few recent robots to shame.


Can't agree with you any more on this comment. Everything you said is sooooo true. It's a cool robot though.

[Cory]

After reading through this thread, I got curious, and earlier tonight I pulled 176's 2002 robot off the closet shelf and started rebuilding her.

Man, oh man, is that robot a brute. Here are just a few specs from the bot thus far.

The whole frame is all welded 3/8" or 1/2" thick aluminum angle
It's a 4wd configuration with dually style pneumatic tires (8 wheels total)
It has 2 speed transmissions, 1 CIM per trans, 5fps low gear, 25fps high gear (hearsay from a mentor from 2002)
It has a 360* turret mounted to the top, powered by a drill motor
It has 2 opposing arms with pneumatic claws, driven out by lead screws on drill motors to grab goals
It has an IR tower on top, for autonomous driving


That would be an impressive feat. There's no possible way it's geared for 25 ft/s though. With one CIM per gearbox you would never get to full speed.

Plus everyone knows 60 and 180 were the two fastest robots that year, and they weren't that fast ;)

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Yeah I forget who the referee was for that................
I think I remember who that was...

Totally agree. Teams were all over the map in terms of creativity between how to grab the goals, minibots, ball collectors, strategies....it all just made for an awesome design challenge that was met with tons of creative ideas.

Let's not forget the magic tongue to reach into two zones at the same time.

[DUCKIE]

Zone Zeal was my senior year, and MOEhawk was my 14' wide baby.
(What a year to be on pit crew!)

I guess I should apologize on behalf of MOE for the 7' extension rule...
I can't help but feel that we are at least partially responsible for that one.

[AcesJames]

That would be an impressive feat. There's no possible way it's geared for 25 ft/s though. With one CIM per gearbox you would never get to full speed.

Plus everyone knows 60 and 180 were the two fastest robots that year, and they weren't that fast ;)

Looks like it's time for me to pull out the radar gun from the closet then. :D Like I said in the post, that "spec" was hearsay from one of the mentors, so I couldn't confirm it.

[Tyler Olds]

Let's not forget the magic tongue to reach into two zones at the same time.

This was one of the coolest and most exciting moments of this year. There were minibots, motorized tape measures, and then there was 111's "tongue". Right when time hit 0, the “tongue” would roll out and it seemed to take a minute to cross the other side of the field (Zone 4 to Zone 1). Honestly it was more fun when it didn't work because you would hear the groans from the crowd in disappointment.

Don't mean to go on and on about this thread, but I think that a lot of people did not appreciate the immense amount of strategy that this game required. Remember that in qualifying, the winning alliance got 3x the losing alliances score. I remember at the Midwest Regional (when it was at Northwestern), that 71 placed somewhere in the bottom 50% because they would always shutout the opposing alliance.

[JamesCH95]

wooo
who remembers the 02 UTC New England Regional with Woodie as Emcee?

121, 69, and 103 were able to hold off grasshopper, rage, and others. I'm biased, but what a GREAT set of finals

It certainly was a great set of matches, but reminds me of how frustrated I was with the rather abusive pinning rules that year.