[BB 08/17/2011] Do you have a better name for it?

[zachmartin1806]

Do you have a better name for it? (http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011/08/do-you-have-better-name-for-it.html)

[dodar]

It would be easier to find a fitting new name for all the events if we knew where the 2nd region's events were being held.

[Steven Donow]

Personally, I'm not too fond of the "district" name. It implies that the region/state is being geographically divided. Like, it makes it seem like you have to be within an X mile radius of Detroit to attend the Detroit District, etc... State Qualifiers is a much more accurate name. Or, if they really want to, they could use something like, "Detroit Tier 1 Event", though that could seem to hard to follow for a common spectator.

[JesseK]

Qualifiers seems appropriate. If you can't make it past them, then you can't go to the next level. The only word more appropriate, imo, would be one that implies exclusivity since out-of-region teams can't compete in them.

'District' seems to imply division more than qualification for the next level.

[GaryVoshol]

Like, it makes it seem like you have to be within an X mile radius of Detroit to attend the Detroit District, etc... And how does that differ from needing to be within Y miles of Philly to go to the "Philly Regional"? District and Regional can both have geographical connotations.

[Joe G.]

I agree with posters on Bill's Blog. No matter what we call them, the district name is probably going to stick, just like "Nationals" and "US First" do.

[Steven Donow]

And how does that differ from needing to be within Y miles of Philly to go to the "Philly Regional"? District and Regional can both have geographical connotations.

That's not what I'm exactly saying, what I'm saying is that saying "district" gives the connotation that the state/region is being divided to the point where you HAVE to go to the certain event.

[Travis Hoffman]

OK, so call the areas applying some version of the "district" model "Regions".


Michigan Region. California Region. Middle Atlantic Region. Midwest Region.

1st tier competitions within each region can be called "Regional Qualifiers".

The top event in each region could then be a "Regional Championship". Considering that these events probably were actual regionals at one point (Great Lakes), that seems to fit.

I'd get rid of the usage of the words "District" and "State" altogether. District seems too constraining, and eliminating "state" accounts for the likelihood that many future Regions will be made up of multiple states and/or portions of states.

I would presume FIRST wants consistent naming conventions used across all Regions, whether a single state or larger.

[PayneTrain]

Michigan is still a locked door to outside teams. That's a state championship.

The Mid-Atlantic Region, which I assume is where this program will be instituted next, is a multi-state cooperation. That's a regional.

FIRST can call the districts/qualifiers whatever they want to, but they'll still be called districts by everyone else.

[JaneYoung]

Hub Qualifiers moving on to Regionals.

Jane

[D.Allred]

We should keep the naming system flexible and not bound to a conference concept, state border, or other geographic name. I think the college baseball naming system would be best - Regional, Super Regional, and World Series. That would give you three clear levels of competition and can be reorganized as different geographies expand at different rates. The name put in front of the "Regional" simply becomes the location of the event.

[Steven Donow]

OK, so call the areas applying some version of the "district" model "Regions".


Michigan Region. California Region. Middle Atlantic Region. Midwest Region.

1st tier competitions within each region can be called "Regional Qualifiers".

The top event in each region could then be a "Regional Championship". Considering that these events probably were actual regionals at one point (Great Lakes), that seems to fit.

I'd get rid of the usage of the words "District" and "State" altogether. District seems too constraining, and eliminating "state" accounts for the likelihood that many future Regions will be made up of multiple states and/or portions of states.
Bam. Good. Done, great solution.

Michigan is still a locked door to outside teams. That's a state championship.

The Mid-Atlantic Region, which I assume is where this program will be instituted next, is a multi-state cooperation. That's a regional.

FIRST can call the districts/qualifiers whatever they want to, but they'll still be called districts by everyone else.

Keep in mind, they said there will be changes, so we(well, obviously higher-ups in FiM do) don't know if Michigan will continue as a locked door, and the same goes for MAR.

[dag0620]

Qualifiers to me sound as if that round is teams trying to prove there good enough to be in competition, and the term seems to just give the round a negative feel IMO.

I've never really had an issue with Districts. Yes I understand how District would imply the splitting of a region, but to me it's no different then having the name regionals have. Plus it makes explaining the competition structure to non-FIRSTers much easier.

[Akash Rastogi]

I don't care what the heck they're called as long as we get new information ASAP from FIRST.

Teams need to know what's going on so we can plan travel, plan budgets, plan fund raising, and we need to know if NASA will give funding to the new district area or if we'll be cut off like Michigan is.

I'm not too happy about the level of information we've been getting. I know it hasn't been finalized yet, but at least keep us updated and at least tell us more about your plans NOW during the summer while teams are fundraising.

We better be seeing new information when registration opens on the 26th.

[Billfred]

Qualifiers to me sound as if that round is teams trying to prove there good enough to be in competition, and the term seems to just give the round a negative feel IMO.

That's exactly the point--you attend the qualifier to prove you're good enough (for whatever value of "good enough" applies) to attend the next-level event (what would've been known in recent years as the Michigan State Championship). It's the same line of thinking that, nine years after its establishment*, has kept us from using different names for autonomous mode and teleoperated mode--they are the proper names for the mode of robot operation.

TLDR: I'm with Travis.

*Okay, so 2008 gave us Hybrid Mode instead--but that case also applies: the robots were not strictly autonomous, but they weren't capable of full teleoperated control in most cases.

[rsisk]

I find this very disappointing. Please i.am.FIRST production team, get us a legit copy ASAP. This is too important of a tool to let time lapse.

If you didn’t see will.i.am’s show about FIRST, I’d point you towards an online link for the video, but the i.am.FIRST production team has made it very clear that an official copy has not been posted yet. All copies of i.am.FIRST Science is Rock and Roll currently on line are unauthorized. When I can point you towards the official version, you can be sure I will.

[thefro526]

I don't care what the heck they're called as long as we get new information ASAP from FIRST.

Teams need to know what's going on so we can plan travel, plan budgets, plan fund raising, and we need to know if NASA will give funding to the new district area or if we'll be cut off like Michigan is.

I'm not too happy about the level of information we've been getting. I know it hasn't been finalized yet, but at least keep us updated and at least tell us more about your plans NOW during the summer while teams are fundraising.

We better be seeing new information when registration opens on the 26th.

I'm with Akash. Ideally, we would've laid out our fundraising goals by now, but until we know exactly what's going on with Districts and or Regionals, we won't be able to do that. A $5k difference in registration is HUGE to my team, along with whether or not we'll NEED to travel to an event this year. I'm hoping that information (even tentative, or just saying what region is going to the district mode) will be out soon...

[Akash Rastogi]

I'm hoping that information (even tentative, or just saying what region is going to the district mode) will be out soon...

I just don't understand why information like this needs to be kept secret until the "big reveal." It makes more sense to me to just keep us updated on things like where the plan is for, how many events they're looking at, possible borders for the district, etc. We've been in the dark about this since 2009 when we first heard rumors, with zero factual updates. Whatever happened to keeping us in the loop?

[Taylor]

If we're "tearing a page out of the sports book" why not say "Regular Season" and "World Championship Qualifier"?

[PayneTrain]

Can we still pre-qualify for CMP?
Can you start trickling out dates for confirmed events so we can start planning?
Are any costs set to change?

And I don't even have to deal with the "maybe we're going to the district system, but don't worry about that yet..."

Not knowing things makes my team look disorganized.

[Andrew Schuetze]

Taking cues from the University Interscholastic League or UIL which oversees both sports and academic level competitions here in Texas.
District - Area - Region leading to the State Event.
Since not all top level events will be confined to geographic boundries of a single state. I vote for using terms such as Area Qualifier and Regional Championship

[JohnBoucher]

I just don't understand why information like this needs to be kept secret until the "big reveal." It makes more sense to me to just keep us updated on things like where the plan is for, how many events they're looking at, possible borders for the district, etc. We've been in the dark about this since 2009 when we first heard rumors, with zero factual updates. Whatever happened to keeping us in the loop?

The best thing FIRST could do is to be run like a business.

[JesseK]

If we're "tearing a page out of the sports book" why not say "Regular Season" and "World Championship Qualifier"?

+1

[Madison]

For as long as traditional "regionals" continue to exist, events that are part of a new qualifying structure should avoid using that term to avoid confusion between the scope and quality of the events.

[P.J.]

I agree with Gary, Regional and District have the same "exclusionary" feel to them, so that is a moot point.

I simply suggest keeping the name "districts" and then State (or Regional, as the situation requires) Championship. Nobody in Michigan ever thought that we would be locked into a certain district when the system was announced, since I believe they stated that we wouldn't be. That automatically removes that concern of people thinking they are locked in to a certain district, connotations of the word "district" are irrelevant when there is a strict definition. (I think that makes sense, I know what I mean in my head but I can't form a sentence that seems to make total sense. :confused: )

[Karibou]

I agree with Gary, Regional and District have the same "exclusionary" feel to them, so that is a moot point.

I simply suggest keeping the name "districts" and then State (or Regional, as the situation requires) Championship. Nobody in Michigan ever thought that we would be locked into a certain district when the system was announced, since I believe they stated that we wouldn't be. That automatically removes that concern of people thinking they are locked in to a certain district, connotations of the word "district" are irrelevant when there is a strict definition. (I think that makes sense, I know what I mean in my head but I can't form a sentence that seems to make total sense. :confused: )

I think that the concern about thinking that we are locked to a certain district comes from explaining the system to those outside of FIRST. High school athletic systems, which is what most people are used to, usually seem to lock everyone into a certain district, class, division, etc. At least, that's how I think of it.

[Steven Donow]

I think that the concern about thinking that we are locked to a certain district comes from explaining the system to those outside of FIRST. High school athletic systems, which is what most people are used to, usually seem to lock everyone into a certain district, class, division, etc. At least, that's how I think of it.

That's basically a better way of saying what I was trying to say before, calling it a district can give the impression that you're locked to that one specific area.

Also, for those who aren't reading the comments, Bill posted this response:

So that looks to me like "District" is in the lead followed by a change of Qualification to "Qualifier" plus some suggestions for sectional, county, community, neighborhood, local & geographical.

What interests me is the unexpected discussion about confusing MSC for CMP. There "Regional" is in the lead and a suggestion has been made for "Conference".

Thanks for the input. I'll check in again later today to see if there are any more updates, then take the suggestions with me to talk to the rest of the team that will make a decision.