Reversible Bumpers

[ProgramLuke]

My team is looking at using reversible bumpers instead of a red/blue set system, has anyone had any issues with reversible bumpers such as http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=915190&postcount=1?

[Taylor]

We used 2809 K-Botics' tutorial (http://kbots.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kbotics-reversible-bumper.pdf) to great success, and highly recommend it. We also endorse JVN's idea of using silver sharpies for the numbers (be prepared to go through about a dozen markers though).

[Alpha Beta]

We used a very similar reversible bumper design this season, and loved it. Robot is pictured here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36489

You can see the indent where the flap splits, and the extra velcro strip used to secure the flap when the bumper is flipped to blue in the picture.

[treffk]

Team 1802 does not use reversible bumpers. Although our bumpers are red(I think) and we have a blue bumper cover that goes over it. This system has worked very well for our team for the past few years. PM me if you want more info my mom made them.

[Red2486]

Team 1802 does not use reversible bumpers. Although our bumpers are red(I think) and we have a blue bumper cover that goes over it. This system has worked very well for our team for the past few years. PM me if you want more info my mom made them.

My team did this as well this year. The blue bumper cover kept getting us in trouble with the inspectors at competition because the cover had been made too large and would break the plane of the robot and it was a saftey hazard because it was sagging a little too close to our wheels and the inspectors were afraid it would get caught in them. So, the moral of the story is that it works if you make sure the cover is tight and fits the bumbers well.

[Peter Matteson]

We have done this the last 2 years and frankly we won't do it again next year.

The Positive:
The ability to have both color bumpers on at the same time is great and it's one less thing to transport or manage in your pit.

The negative:
This takes SIGNIFCANTLY longer to make than two single color sets.
No matter how much velcro you use they never quite look right.
The biggest negative we found was they caught on the bumpers of teams defending us more that the smooth single color style would.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Luke,
What ever style you choose, please be advised that rules change from year to year. It is unlikely that the bumpers will be dropped anytime in the foreseeable future, however, the design criteria do change. It is best to wait until the rules are released.

[Brandon Holley]

125 used the reversible bumpers for the 2010 season, and standard swap out bumpers for this past season.

In 2010, we really liked the idea of being able to swap the color so easily. Luckily enough, one of our students is a very talented seamstress and volunteered to make the bumpers. As time went on we realized how much more difficult this was than we initially thought. I believe in the end, our student spent over 20 hours sewing the things to get them right.

Even after they were sewed properly, they still didn't look quite as clean as they could be (mainly at the corners where 2 bumpers met). They functioned quite well for the season as a whole, but it was a much larger undertaking than initially thought. That is what led us to change to regular bumpers for 2011.

Hope it helps.

-Brando

[Aren Siekmeier]

Interesting stuff in this thread.

We've done two full sets of bumpers the last two years, and I've often thought about maybe going to a cover or reversible fabric, but from the anecdotes here I'm kind of happy with where we are. We use pins that pop in and out to quickly replace the bumpers, and the solid fabric fastening does make it more durable and gives us more options for numbers if we want.

[pfreivald]

Our bumper skirt was problematic and, at the end of the day, looked sloppy. We'll probably be making two sets of bumpers for 2012...

...although I really wish they'd just go back to flags or lights to indicate alliance color. It was a lot less wasteful.

[Jon Stratis]

We used reversible bumpers this year, and will never go back (assuming the rules don't force us to, of course). We had some amazing parent help in doing it - one of the senior's parents came in and worked with a couple of students to pretty much do all of the cutting and sewing in one evening. Assembled them and had no problems the entire season with them.

[Cynette]

1511 used reversible bumpers in 2010 and a single color with a bumper cover forthis year. As the seamstress, this year was much easier, and still had the minimized material use benefits. The bumper cover was very very fitted to avoid the issues that Pat mentioned. As for next year - well its a whole new game! :p

[JesseK]

I'd be happy if they'd simply let us re-use last year's bumpers, or at least some of the already cut (or sewn) parts of them. There's so much less waste in re-use. Plus we wouldn't have to figure out where to store 3 years' worth of bumpers :rolleyes:

[Jon Stratis]

I'd be happy if they'd simply let us re-use last year's bumpers, or at least some of the already cut (or sewn) parts of them. There's so much less waste in re-use. Plus we wouldn't have to figure out where to store 3 years' worth of bumpers :rolleyes:

I second this notion... There are two issues with reuse of parts, though: Competitive advantage over other teams (in this case, over rookies), and the educational aspect of designing and building something new. I don't think anyone would argue that the bumpers really provide an educational aspect, given how strict the rules are. So, it just comes down to advantage - rookie teams would have to spend hours making bumpers during the build season. Hours that veteran teams could spend improving their robot.

So, to solve that... Lets get a standard set of bumpers on the FIRST Choice site as an option only available to rookies (either take it or don't, it doesn't replace any other choices). They would assume the "normal" length and width of 90% of FIRST robots (since the complete perimeter rule went into affect). Simple, easy, and would help ensure teams have compliant bumpers. How many rookie teams have you seen that haven't used the KoP frame, sized to the same dimensions?

If you make it easy for rookies to have ready-made bumpers, then re-using bumpers from a previous year doesn't really give any veteran teams an advantage.

Of course, if the bumper rules change, old bumpers may no longer be compliant... And that would be a year for everyone to build new ones.

[JesseK]

Yea I see the competitive advantage aspect of it. Yet I also see it nullified by veteran teams taking hours on practice/competition day to get rookies working to begin with.

[Aren Siekmeier]

If bumpers didn't ship with the robot, the competitive advantage of being able to reuse them would be less so.

[Brandon Holley]

Plus we wouldn't have to figure out where to store 3 years' worth of bumpers :rolleyes:

Just throw them away. Thats what we do with them. They make it more difficult to get through door ways, and in and out of vehicles. We just run sans-bumpers once we're done competing with the robot.

-Brando

[Taylor]

Lets get a standard set of bumpers on the FIRST Choice site as an option only available to rookies (either take it or don't, it doesn't replace any other choices). They would assume the "normal" length and width of 90% of FIRST robots (since the complete perimeter rule went into affect). Simple, easy, and would help ensure teams have compliant bumpers. How many rookie teams have you seen that haven't used the KoP frame, sized to the same dimensions?

Check. (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0325.htm) Well, not exactly FIRSTChoice, but it's there.

[Chris is me]

In 2010, we had a skirt and that was no fun. 2011 was two sets of bumpers and MUCH better.

I think having a snap on or velcro on cover for each individual bumper would look better.

[Hallry]

I'd be happy if they'd simply let us re-use last year's bumpers, or at least some of the already cut (or sewn) parts of them. There's so much less waste in re-use. Plus we wouldn't have to figure out where to store 3 years' worth of bumpers :rolleyes:

Well you can always do this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35989) with them. ;)

[Walter Deitzler]

In 2010, we had a skirt and that was no fun. 2011 was two sets of bumpers and MUCH better.

I think having a snap on or velcro on cover for each individual bumper would look better.

Our team used skirts for our bumpers this year and we liked them. They made changing color quicker and easier.

[shapiraguy]

1937 used reversible bumpers as can be seen in the following movies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqqYgxAv1d4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dShWJnY4eXY&NR=1

looked very nice.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I can only add that any solution should be neat, tight, and should look as good as the rest of your robot. It is like dressing up in a tux, and wearing white socks that don't match, have holes in them and the elastic is all gone.