View Full Version : Someone at JC Penney didn't get the message
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/31/jcpenney-too-pretty-for-homework_n_943423.html
At least they pulled the shirt!
akoscielski3
31-08-2011, 14:39
I love the quick poll right below it
-sends a dangerous message to young girls
-Was probably made by young girls who don't earn a fair wage
-Perpetuates the notion that it's better to be pretty than smart
-Has the worst font choice ever
-All of the above
MagiChau
31-08-2011, 14:49
nice to see all of the above is in the lead, that font choice is too much to bear. Wonder who came up with the desc. of the shirt regarding Justin Bieber.
DonRotolo
31-08-2011, 17:11
Wonder who came up with the desc. of the shirt regarding Justin Bieber.
Probably the marketing person who thought the shirt would be a good idea. :eek:
I'd love to see a 5th grader who could write that nice. Dang is that cursive pretty! (no pun intended)
msimon785
31-08-2011, 20:14
I love the quick poll right below it
I almost panicked over the decision as to which answer to choose, until I saw the final answer choice :)
nice to see all of the above is in the lead, that font choice is too much to bear. Wonder who came up with the desc. of the shirt regarding Justin Bieber.
I'm pretty sure it is supposed to be sarcastic/ironic (see the hipster craze). Whether the target audience would realize this is a different story ;)
I'm pretty sure it is supposed to be sarcastic/ironic (see the hipster craze). Whether the target audience would realize this is a different story ;)
Producing sarcasm is a well-practiced art, identifying it however seems to be a lost one. I completely agree though, my first thoughts on the shirt were typical kid's shirt. Has a quick little one-liner, an interesting art style, and something that will appeal to kids. The truth though, so many things went wrong with execution. I imagine if girls of the age the shirt is for were to judge, plenty of them would like the shirt. The truth is that alot of girls still care more about being pretty and then being smart. They'd see that shirt as almost a motto of their life. In all honesty, which is sadder? The shirt or the fact that some girls would happily wear it? My vote is for the latter.
Jason
Andrew Lawrence
01-09-2011, 09:29
Though I could easily make that shirt 20% cooler in 10 seconds flat, my best bet is that JCP has seen the articles and has learned never to send out a bad message to their buyers again, or at least they will when Dean's done with them! ;)
Though I could easily make that shirt 20% cooler in 10 seconds flat
Denim? and tube skirts?
Andrew Lawrence
01-09-2011, 09:49
Denim?
Close enough.
Though I could easily make that shirt 20% cooler in 10 seconds flat, my best bet is that JCP has seen the articles and has learned never to send out a bad message to their buyers again, or at least they will when Dean's done with them! ;)
There are actually a lot of bad messages still being sent out via t-shirt, mostly in the shirts for younger boys. You know, the ones that list "20 reasons why I didn't do my homework," including a zombie attack and being tortured by their sister's friends. When you look at it, those kind of shirts are usually in good fun, but they still technically send out a bad message.
JaneYoung
01-09-2011, 22:32
I saw that this tee had been pulled. The cool thing is that it made the news.
What if they had flipped it and exchanged brother for sister, inserting an adjective for the brother that would be stereotypically fitting and changing the fonts to reflect a more masculine image?
Gotta problem with that? Yup, I do.
There are so many awesome quotes, ideas, images that are just waiting to make an impact in awesome ways.
What's that one - capable of thinking of 6 impossible ideas before breakfast? Something could be added like - and solved them by dinner. Einstein would be proud.
There are so many wonderful ways to project the idea that smart is cool, effective, and makes a powerful impact. In.a.positive.way.
Come on, JCP - you can do it! To quote Andy Baker: Excellence is contagious. :)
Jane
What if they had flipped it and exchanged brother for sister, inserting an adjective for the brother that would be stereotypically fitting and changing the fonts to reflect a more masculine image?
Gotta problem with that? Yup, I do.
I have a bigger problem - those shirts already exist. I've seen lots of boys' shirts with masculine reasons not to do homework/study/be intelligent. I've seen the shirts on 20-somethings; I've seen the shirts on boys too young to walk. Where are the news stories on those?
In several instances I know of my friends and family, there was a young boy who was enrolling in grade school. His birthday was close to the cut-line for acceptance; administrators say, "If you hold him back a year, he'll be better at sports." What kind of reflection on our society is? Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?
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His birthday was close to the cut-line for acceptance; administrators say, "If you hold him back a year, he'll be better at sports." What kind of reflection on our society is? Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn? This is not a black and white subject.
JaneYoung
02-09-2011, 11:54
This is not a black and white subject.
No, but it sure is a good one.
Jane
Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?
As Blake said, it's not black and white.
If a child is showing early signs of great athletic prowess this decision could be a life changer.
Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers is a fascinating read, and may cast some light on this subject.
Chris is me
02-09-2011, 13:01
In several instances I know of my friends and family, there was a young boy who was enrolling in grade school. His birthday was close to the cut-line for acceptance; administrators say, "If you hold him back a year, he'll be better at sports." What kind of reflection on our society is? Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?
My parents heard the same thing. I'm glad they didn't listen.
There are many factors that go into such a decision. This is probably the single least important.
In several instances I know of my friends and family, there was a young boy who was enrolling in grade school. His birthday was close to the cut-line for acceptance; administrators say, "If you hold him back a year, he'll be better at sports." What kind of reflection on our society is? Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?
Try being the kid in gym class that's a year or two younger than his classmates. I assure you it can be a big problem.
Try being the kid in gym class that's a year or two younger than his classmates. I assure you it can be a big problem.
That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.
I wouldn't trade it for the world.
That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.
I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Then consider yourself blessed.
But what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone else.
It's a tough decision for parents. It's not black and white.
That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.
I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I absolutely would. I guess we had different experiences.
Chris is me
02-09-2011, 18:38
That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.
I wouldn't trade it for the world.
What he said exactly.
I don't mean to say the decision is easy, I just mean to say that sports is probably the reason that will contribute least to their happiness and well being.
Alan Anderson
03-09-2011, 20:21
Try being the kid in gym class that's a year or two younger than his classmates. I assure you it can be a big problem.
A year or two might make a difference, but I thought we were talking about someone being "close to the cutoff" and thus less than a year younger than the typical classmate.
Ian Curtis
07-09-2011, 14:21
What he said exactly.
I don't mean to say the decision is easy, I just mean to say that sports is probably the reason that will contribute least to their happiness and well being.
I don't mean to bring up a dead thread, but I did go and pick up a copy of Outliers. Even outside of sports, there were clear indications in the studies used by the author that being the eldest among your classmates gives one an initial small advantage that compounds into a much larger one.
For example, on 4th grade aptitude tests a student born immediately following the grade cutoff on average scored 14% higher than students born closer to the cutoff for the following year. If that prevents the student from being placed in an honors/advanced track, that small initial difference is compounded, and can be further compounded in years to come.
We all like to think we (and I assume our kids) are really intelligent/hardworking and are capable of bucking a trend like this. But why have them start with a disadvantage when we could be giving them/ourselves an advantage?
Disclaimer: I have not read the book.
For example, on 4th grade aptitude tests a student born immediately following the grade cutoff on average scored 14% higher than students born closer to the cutoff for the following year.
I would certainly hope so; that child has had 11 more months of existence and brain development; cognitively (s)he is much older than classmates. In the fourth grade, that is a big big deal.
Empirical evidence is good, and certainly has its place. Especially when related to things such as robot design and construction. However, if my parents had waited the extra year to place me into school, I may have lost the drive, the motivation, the challenge in that year of academic inactivity.
As has been said before, this is not a black-and-white issue; statistics derive from people but people are not statistics. Your individual mileage may vary.
I wasn't too pretty do to homework, and I don't believe I've ever met anybody who is.
I don't mean to bring up a dead thread, but I did go and pick up a copy of Outliers. Even outside of sports, there were clear indications in the studies used by the author that being the eldest among your classmates gives one an initial small advantage that compounds into a much larger one.
For example, on 4th grade aptitude tests a student born immediately following the grade cutoff on average scored 14% higher than students born closer to the cutoff for the following year. If that prevents the student from being placed in an honors/advanced track, that small initial difference is compounded, and can be further compounded in years to come.
We all like to think we (and I assume our kids) are really intelligent/hardworking and are capable of bucking a trend like this. But why have them start with a disadvantage when we could be giving them/ourselves an advantage?
Interesting data, but what is the harm in starting them early and holding them back a grade later on if needed? Wouldn't that give them an advantage over the student that stayed home and waited for a year? I completely agree it isn't a simple choice, but why do you have to pick? Can't you have both to some extent?
Jason
Interesting data, but what is the harm in starting them early and holding them back a grade later on if needed?
That path is fraught with peril methinks.
Wouldn't that give them an advantage over the student that stayed home and waited for a year?
Stayed home and waited? Life is school. The child matures and learns during that year. Hits the ground running next year.
why do you have to pick? Can't you have both to some extent
I'd say no.
Ian Curtis
07-09-2011, 16:46
However, if my parents had waited the extra year to place me into school, I may have lost the drive, the motivation, the challenge in that year of academic inactivity.
You were one motivated 5 year old! :)
As has been said before, this is not a black-and-white issue; statistics derive from people but people are not statistics. Your individual mileage may vary.
I wasn't too pretty do to homework, and I don't believe I've ever met anybody who is.
No argument here with the caveat that people are statistics, but nothing ever says you the individual has to be close to the mean. Though statistically, most people will be.
Interesting data, but what is the harm in starting them early and holding them back a grade later on if needed? Wouldn't that give them an advantage over the student that stayed home and waited for a year? I completely agree it isn't a simple choice, but why do you have to pick? Can't you have both to some extent?
I would imagine some of the social stigma that goes along with being held back a year would be quite harmful.
Back on the subject of T-shirts, I think they could send an equally inappropriate message if they sold t-shirts for engineers that said, "I'm too good at math for normal social interaction." They would get a lot of laughs at tech schools, which is really not a good thing.
However, if my parents had waited the extra year to place me into school, I may have lost the drive, the motivation, the challenge in that year of academic inactivity.
In re "academic inactivity", we are talking about Kindergarten here, correct? Not High School?
Albeit if you were chomping at the bit to go to school, then holding you back would probably would have been the wrong move. Sounds like your parents did the right thing in your specific case.
Brandon Holley
08-09-2011, 09:47
I was born 10 days before the grade cutoff for my year, and after having gone through all my years of school and college, I'm glad my parents did not hold me back a year.
I understand it is a very difficult decision for parents at that age, and while not having read Outliers, the points from it brought up in this thread are interesting. There is definitely no right or wrong, but I feel that my parents made the best decision for me based on the small sample size of data that had regarding my academic abilities.
While I was always the smallest kid in my class, and always the last to experience life milestones like getting your license or going out to the bars, I wouldn't trade my experience for anyone else's.
Just another data point to throw on the pile.
-Brando
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