NEW TEAM NEEDS

[SciBorg Dave]

We are a very new team in rural Eastern Washington.
I would like to know what extra parts (to have on hand) will be needed for the the robot build ?
Please give what extra parts might be needed and a source for the parts, we will need to shipping in everything no local sources.
This may save us a lot of down time in January and Feburary.
Thanks FIRST TEAM 4061 SciBorgs.

[EricH]

Aluminum (tube and angle, probably in the 1" square range)
Plywood/Lexan (anybody using acrylic/plexiglass is asking for a failure)
Fasteners
PVC in some cases
Pool Noodles. (These will be used in bumpers. Leftovers make decent shock absorbers for mechanisms that might hit the frame.)

Tools to work with above (saws, drills, drivers)


As far as sources, McMaster-Carr is a little expensive, but has very fast shipping. For stuff on the above list other than aluminum, the nearest home-improvement store should have it (though that might still be a long way)--bear in mind, you'll probably need a lot of plywood to build field elements as well as parts on the robot.

As a rookie team, I would not recommend doing anything overly complicated. Kitbot or Kitbot on Steroids drivetrain (you get all the parts for the former in the kit), a basic manipulator, and plenty of practice will serve you as well as anything more complicated.

[SciBorg Dave]

What size fastners do the teams use the most of ?
Were can you get aluninum on line ?
Looked at McMaster- Carr could not find pool noodles ?
A basic manipulator ?
We hope to do a lot of pratice !

[EricH]

What size fastners do the teams use the most of ?
Were can you get aluninum on line ?
Looked at McMaster- Carr could not find pool noodles ?
A basic manipulator ?
We hope to do a lot of pratice !
Fasteners vary. It really depends on your team's needs. Whatever comes in the kit of parts, though, you may want more of.

McMaster may or may not have pool noodles, but you do need to get pool noodles. McMaster does carry some aluminum; however, there are places online. (I've never dealt with any myself, but there are a number of posts on CD with places to find some.) Try a pool supply store for the noodles.

A basic manipulator--Something fairly simple that can handle the game object in the way that the game requires. That's something you'd design after Kickoff.

[slijin]

We tend to mostly use 1/4-20 hardware, augmented with assorted bits of either 6-32, 8-32, 10-24, and 10-32 depending on the application; we rarely ever use more heavy-duty bolts & nuts. I suggest you read up on the different types there are and buy accordingly. You may want to collaborate with local teams (if there are any) to see how they obtain their hardware.

Keep in mind that fasteners are not, however, limited to bolts and nuts. Other commonly used ones include rivets (most FIRST teams use pop rivets, which are much easier to use) and sheet metal screws (there is a fine distinction between these and bolts & nuts), as well as Velcro (you'd be surprised how strong the industrial stuff is).

We like to use onlinemetals.com for our aluminum, but McMaster has the fastest turnaround time, so it's worth the price if you need something fast.

A bit of stock plywood would also come in helpful, not only for prototyping but occasionally even in the final bot.

[Marc S.]

Something that will give you a competitive advantage is building a practice bot. As a rookie team this is harder for you to accomplish but if you use the same electronics and (in some cases) the same mechanical structures it can be done cheaply. And definitely use this (http://www.simbotics.org/media/videos/2011/presentations/kitbot-presentation-kitbot-steroids).

[SciBorg Dave]

OK I want to order some metals.
What size, What number(6061 -6063), How long ?
You got the team going what else will we need ?

Do we do a 2nd robot?

[EricH]

This is a rather involved set of questions this time. I'll do my best, but you're starting to get into details here.
OK I want to order some metals.
What size, What number(6061 -6063), How long ?
The number is the alloy. There will often also be some form of hardness number following the alloy. 6061 is adequate for FRC applications, as is 6063. There are other alloys with different properties. Going into what all the alloys and their numbers mean... well, that's a materials course and a mechanics of materials course.

Length: Just get the "stock" size if it's anywhere longer than 3-4'. Often, metal is sold in 10' lengths; getting a few of those will help you later.

As far as size... It really, really depends on the application. 2"x1"x1/8" isn't uncommon for drivebases; 1"x1"x1/8" or 1/16" isn't uncommon in the superstructure. If you're going with a kit drivebase, which includes its metal, then I'd get 1"x1"x1/8" in both square tube and angle shapes.

Do we do a 2nd robot?
If you have the resources, yes. If you don't have the resources, don't. In this case, I'd suggest not until after you've built your primary robot, and put all your effort towards getting a running robot ASAP and getting some practice on that, on carpet.


You got the team going what else will we need ?Mentors, a mentor team, some luck... Oh, and grab some parental involvement if you can.

[SciBorg Dave]

We have a great group of mentors 12
Great students approx 34
Volunteers (parents) 22
We will not be able to get into our build area until Dec 20th
This is a lot of working getting a team going.
FIRST TEAM 2016 is sending us some parts to look over.
Just want to get as much ready for the team before Jan.7th
We do not know what is in the KOP so we start from the ground and work up.
If anyone has more ideas PLEASE send them in.

[EricH]

We do not know what is in the KOP so we start from the ground and work up.
If anyone has more ideas PLEASE send them in.

Oh, I have ideas. Check your PM box.

One of those ideas is that it may be worth your while to look at the Administrative Manual (http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/competition-manual-and-related-documents) (2012), if you haven't already. Another is that the 2011 Manual (http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/2011-competition-manual-and-related-documents) may be decent reading, particularly the KOP and Robot Quick Build documents. Note that the Manual itself will not apply to 2012, though some of the other documents might.

[Marc S.]

Try to get 6061 alloy. 6063 takes longer to machine and tends to gum up machine cutters more. If the size you need doesn't come in 6061 don't spend too much time trying to find it. Having your own machines definately changes what and how much you buy.

973 builds their frame mainly out of 2x1 and 1x1 tubing, 1/16 and sometimes 1/8 wall thickness. We also use just about every size from 1/8x1 to 3x3 solid. After a couple seasons you should have a full list of material to suit your design style.
Check out our cad.

[SciBorg Dave]

How about extra battries and extra charger ?
FIRST 4-H TEAM 4061

[Peyton Yeung]

How about extra battries and extra charger ?
FIRST 4-H TEAM 4061

I would definitely suggest extra batteries and chargers. Our team has a 6 chargers and about a dozen batteries(probably overkill).With our 2nd bot we do a lot of driving and practicing so we go through batteries quite quickly.

[EricH]

How about extra battries and extra charger ?

*facepalm* I forgot all about that!

Not knowing what the charger is that comes in the rookie kits these days, I would definitely get another one (I think there's been discussion on CD of various types of chargers and charge rates--a CD search should turn up those threads).

Batteries: You'll get 2, as a rookie; the Manual will tell you what the accepted additional batteries are. They'll be 12V motorcycle batteries, unless something changes. Get 2-4 extras, and consider getting a battery tester, if not this year then soon, to verify that they're working properly. Then set up a battery management system so you know that you've got a good battery every match.

Oh, there is one other place you will want to get VERY familiar with. http://www.andymark.com/ These guys sell motors, gearboxes, chassis systems, batteries... They are also, to some extent, FIRST's "surplus" or "outlet" for game pieces if those aren't readily available, and for the FIRST Choice kit additions. Got an extra couple thousand dollars lying around? Get a complete chassis and build a practice drivebase. Need mentoring? Though that is better done locally, Andy and Mark are both experienced mentors. Can't find assembly instructions for the KOP gearbox? They'll be on that site. Quality is excellent, and customer service is outstanding.

[Peter Matteson]

What size fastners do the teams use the most of ?

10-32 can be used for almost every need. You will need some 1/4-20 and 3/8-16 if you use the kitbot.

If possible use all the same fastener or as much of one as possible because you will spend less time looking for tools if they all need the same allan key and box wrench. You can minimize loose parts by using flange head bolts to eliminate washers also.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=f4o3m4

[Taylor]

10-32 can be used for almost every need. You will need some 1/4-20 and 3/8-16 if you use the kitbot.

If possible use all the same fastener or as much of one as possible because you will spend less time looking for tools if they all need the same allan key and box wrench. You can minimize loose parts by using flange head bolts to eliminate washers also.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=f4o3m4

The kitbot is standardized to take 1/4-20 hardware. The accompanying screws are SHCS. As has been stated, if you make everything SHCS, you won't have to worry about phillips/flathead screwdrivers (students always grab the wrong kind). With the exception of the electronics and drive axles, we exclusively use 1/4-20. We also buy about a dozen allen key sets each year - the tools tend to get rounded or lost. I'd recommend the kind where all keys are connected together like a pocketknife - the individual parts are less likely to get lost. We also get about a dozen 1/4" drill bits - they tend to snap at the most inopportune times. (I know, if used properly, drill bits shouldn't snap - but I also know that teenagers tend to test the boundaries of "should")
IIRC some of the electronics take 8-32 hardware, and axles are 3/8-16; plan accordingly.
Ratcheting gear wrenches are awesome. Especially the kinds with flexing heads.
In addition to the plywood, get some 10' 2X4s. Like 8 or 10 of them. They'll be probably used in the field. It would be a great task for the parents to build the key field elements the first week.

Re: 2 robots: Don't worry about it. One robot is more than enough work. Lots of respectable, competitive teams do it with one robot. That's not to say don't build two - the advantages are numerous - but don't kill yourselves trying to get two. Focus on Number One, make it right and good.

[rsisk]

Here is the 2011 Kit of Parts, it will give you an idea of what has come in the KOP in the past and what might be in this year's KOP

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2011_Assets/Kit_of_Parts/2011%20Kit%20of%20Parts%20Checklist%20Rev%20E.pdf

[DonRotolo]

Tools.

Hand tools like screwdrivers (get 3 sets), wrenches (2 sets), a socket set, hacksaws, files, lots of pliers (including a cutter for #6 copper wire), aviation shears, center punches, hammers, and so on. Anyone who is handy at home will imagine what you need. If money is tight - and where isn't it? - order all that from harbor Freight to start out, then replace stuff that fails with better stuff later. Oh, and a tool box or three. Pop-rivet gun and rivets.

Chain. #35 chain, along with lots of master links, half links, and a chain 'breaker'. Sprockets can come later.

Lexan. NOT Plexiglas (Acrylic) but Polycarbonate. 1/16" thick for decorations, 1/8 & 3/32 for structural elements. 4' x 4' sheets. Also 0.062 and 0.093 aluminum sheets, 2'x4' should be good.

Drills, and drill bits. NOT TiN coated, this isn't great for aluminum. Also a big step bit for when you need to drill a 1.25" hole in a sheet of something. Get extras of the small (under 1/4") sizes.

Power tools like a drill press and a power sander (small belt or disk), and if money allows a metal-cutting band saw for thin sheets, a cold saw (or, if you like to live dangerously, a far-cheaper chop saw) to cut extrusion, an air compressor to blow and inflate things, maybe a lathe and mill....

A vacuum cleaner. For all the metal chips. Broom and dustpan too.

Electronics tools, like fine hand tools, a soldering iron and solder, a ratcheting terminal crimper (mandatory) and lots of extra high-quality terminals (yellow, blue and red, mostly fork and ring terminals), a good wire stripper, several rolls of 3M black electrical tape and a roll each of several colors. Heat-shrink tubing kit, and a heat gun.

Rolls of electrical wire, automotive type, copper. Stranded, red & black, in #10 & #12 (50' each), #14, 16 & 18 (100' each), and some #20 or 22 in red, black and white. You'll use it all, but it'll get you going.

Storage shelves, plastic cheapies are OK, but kids need places to put their work in progress. Bin boxes too, even old liquor boxes will do. A way to organize your supplies, even just a little.

...-.-

The one thing that saved our butts more often than ANYthing else? An open account with McMaster. They deliver UPS overnight, and sell almost everything.

Do you have a farm store nearby, the kind that deals with machines like lawnmowers or combines (not sure how rural you are...)? A WalMart? Sears? Farm Supply? Ace Hardware? All of these will be your friend.

Check the yellow pages. There HAS to be a machine shop within an hour. They can help you find where to get stuff too.

I'm sure there's loads I forgot, but that'll get you started.

[cbeavers6790]

this may sound very basic but you can never have enough duct tape and electrical tape. Duct tape if anything can be used to hold carpet together for practice. Electrical tape will be used a lot for batteries and such. A box cutter is always a good idea to have around. Also keep a small first-aid kit (latex free if someone is allergic) and a fire-extinguisher around not only for your safety, but also for safety judges at competition. Sharpies and dry-erase markers are useful to mark basic lines on metal ( I have even used liquid white-out), though you dont want to use them if you need really precise cuts. Allen wrenches (both L and T handle) are both useful. Pencil and Paper to make hardware store- run lists. Once you find out the challenge you will probably want to build a mock field to practice on, which can often be made out of wood, so you could possibly talk to a local lumber yard about donating that :). Most importantly dont be afraid to ask for help. This site is my best-friend during build season. Good luck and I hope you have a great season