2012 Suffield Shakedown Scrimmage [Archive]

AcesJames

04-01-2012, 22:37

Suffield Shakedown 2012
Saturday, February 18, 2012

Welcome to Suffield Shakedown, Aces High's 11th annual competition held at Suffield High School in West Suffield, CT. This pre-ship date scrimmage is an informal event giving teams the opportunity to practice their driving skills, test their robot and observe other teams on the official FIRST playing field.

Tentative Schedule -
8:00 am - Pits open
9:00-11:30 am - Practice Rounds begin
9:30-11am - Workshop (TBD)
11:30 am Drivers meeting (room TBA)
11:30 am-12:30pm Lunch
12:00 pm Opening Ceremonies
12:30-2:30 pm Qualification Rounds
1:00-2:00 pm - NEMO(Non-Engineering Mentor Organization) meeting (room TBA)
2:30-3:00 pm Alliance Picks
3:00 pm Championship Rounds
4:00 pm Awards

Competition Structure -
We will be using ALL official rules for the 2012 game
We will NOT be inspecting robots, but robots must not pose a safety hazard
Elimination rounds will be run with 4 alliance.
The top 4 seeds will pick 1 team to work with, and 1 team will be randomly assigned.
Elimination rounds will be double elimination (not round robin, etc)

Team List - Registration is currently FULL - 1/4/12
88 TJ²
125 Nu-Trons
134 Team Discovery
175 Buzz Robotics
176 Aces High
177 Bobcat Robotics
178 2nd Law Enforcers
181 Birds of Prey
228 GUS Robotics
230 Gaelhawks
263 Sachem AFTERSHOCK
558 Elm City Robo Squad
716 Who's CTEKS
839 Rosie Robotics
1071 MAX
1124 Uberbots
1699 The Robocats
1735 Green Reapers
1784 Litchbots
1991 The Dragons
2168 Aluminum Falcons
2170 Titanium Tomahawks
2785 Prometeus
3146 Granby Grunts
3461 Operation PEACCE
3464 Sim-City
3634 Hard Botties
3654 TechTigers
3718 Junkyard Battalion
4055 NRG

Please note, there is also a wait list of teams. If any team drops out, the first on the waitlist will shuffle into the registered teams list.

For contact information, and more scrimmage details as the are updated, please visit our website at http://aceshigh176.org/ss-scrimmage

Akash Rastogi

05-01-2012, 00:41

JT, does this get webcast each year?

Peter Matteson

05-01-2012, 07:03

230 has been webcasting it for several years.

AcesJames

05-01-2012, 19:53

JT, does this get webcast each year?

The past few years, as Peter mentioned, 230 has been covering it, although I cant say 100% if they're doing it this year, because I don't think we've confirmed with them or not yet. I know we would love it if they could!

Also, general question for all, would anyone be interested in archival of the match footage and scores? We have been thinking of getting all this data gathered up so that perhaps the event could be put on TBA.

MarcD79

08-01-2012, 12:20

Due to the added Kinect player's area, there might be a change in the way the field is set up this year. I will keep everybody posted.

KathieK

05-02-2012, 20:48

Please note that the times listed above for the NEMO meeting are incorrect; the meeting (for all adult mentors who work on the non-technical side of the team) will be held from 10am to noon. Please let your mentors know about the meeting - we'll be discussing topics of your choice in areas such as travel, fundraising, teambuilding, team organization, etc. You don't need to be competing at the scrimmage in order to attend the meeting. If you have any questions, contact me at kkentfield[at]usfirst[dot]org.

CurseofDragon33

12-02-2012, 20:43

The past few years, as Peter mentioned, 230 has been covering it, although I cant say 100% if they're doing it this year, because I don't think we've confirmed with them or not yet. I know we would love it if they could!

Also, general question for all, would anyone be interested in archival of the match footage and scores? We have been thinking of getting all this data gathered up so that perhaps the event could be put on TBA.

Yes. It would be very much appreciated if the match footage was archived. Thank you!

V_Chip

12-02-2012, 20:50

Less than a week away...

So who's ready? :p

jblay

12-02-2012, 21:54

Less than a week away...

So who's ready? :p

I am ready to setup the projector in our lab and watch every match.

O'Sancheski

12-02-2012, 22:52

Team List: (As of 2/12/12)
88 TJ²
125 Nu-Trons
134 Team Discovery
175 Buzz Robotics
176 Aces High
177 Bobcat Robotics
178 2nd Law Enforcers
181 Birds of Prey
228 GUS Robotics
230 Gaelhawks
263 Sachem AFTERSHOCK
558 Elm City Robo Squad
716 Who's CTEKS
839 Rosie Robotics
1071 MAX
1124 Uberbots
1699 The Robocats
1735 Green Reapers
1784 Litchbots
1991 The Dragons
2168 Aluminum Falcons
2170 Titanium Tomahawks
2785 Prometeus
3146 Granby Grunts
3461 Operation PEACCE
3464 Sim-City
3634 Hard Botties
3654 TechTigers
3718 Junkyard Battalion (Rookie)
4055 NRG (Rookie)

Teams on the Wait List
23 PNTA
155 Technonuts
173 RAGE
195 Cybernights
270 Falcons
571 Team Paragon
999 CRASH
1027 Mechatronic Maniacs
1099 Disco Techs
2064 Panther Project
2067 Apple Pi
2836 Team Beta
3525 The Nuts & Bolts of Fury
3780 Robot Unicorn Attack

Keep in mind as James stated in the first post, the teams who are currently on the waitlist can show up to the event with your robot. If one of the registered teams does not show up by 10am we will give their spot to an available waitlisted team.

I look forward to seeing a great competition and see how Rebound Rumble plays out.

davepowers

12-02-2012, 22:53

GUS will be there, with hopefully a couple tricks up our sleeves! ;]. See you Saturday!

-D

mrlg220

13-02-2012, 15:49

Sim-City is ready to rumble! See you Saturday!

AcesJames

13-02-2012, 15:56

Yes. It would be very much appreciated if the match footage was archived. Thank you!

I've confirmed that Shakedown will be webcasted, so I'll do my best to get it all recorded and cut up into matches and uploaded afterward. Hopefully others will find it useful as well!

dag0620

13-02-2012, 16:07

Well with the robot nearing completion, Max is starting to make preparations for attending the event.

On a personal note, I can't wait for Saturday. The Shakedown is always a great event, and it's always great to see everyone's bots for the first time.

OZ_341

13-02-2012, 16:09

Suffield Shakedown 2012
Saturday, February 18, 2012

Welcome to Suffield Shakedown, Aces High's 11th annual competition held at Suffield High School in West Suffield, CT. ..........

Is it OK to come up and observe? I was thinking of traveling up to CT with my daughter to watch the action and see how this year's game will be played. We'll
be sure to buy lunch in the building to support Aces High!

AcesJames

13-02-2012, 16:26

Is it OK to come up and observe? I was thinking of traveling up to CT with my daughter to watch the action and see how this year's game will be played. We'll be sure to buy lunch in the building to support Aces High!

Certainly! One of the awesome things about Shakedown is that we have a lot of people from the surrounding area who stop by, even if their teams aren't in attendance. We've even got a few special guests slated to show up from the state capitol.

See you guys Saturday!

CurseofDragon33

13-02-2012, 22:46

I've confirmed that Shakedown will be webcasted, so I'll do my best to get it all recorded and cut up into matches and uploaded afterward. Hopefully others will find it useful as well!

Ok. Thank you for doing so.

jwfoss

13-02-2012, 22:56

FRC2168 is looking forward to the event again this year.

Good luck to everyone during the final push trying to finish their robots in time for the event.

V_Chip

13-02-2012, 23:03

I am ready to setup the projector in our lab and watch every match.

Sounds like a plan! I'm excited to see first hand how the game will actually play out with six robots on the field.

FRC2168 is looking forward to the event again this year.

Good luck to everyone during the final push trying to finish their robots in time for the event.

How's AlFal doing this last week?

I'd like to see what you guys have up your sleeves.. :p

stupidgerman

15-02-2012, 12:28

Is there a link to where Shakedown will be webcasted?

AcesJames

15-02-2012, 13:22

I believe the webcast will be hosted at Team 230's website, here. http://shsrobotics.org/webcasts

I will check tonight and update this post if that isn't correct.

O'Sancheski

17-02-2012, 23:35

The field has been set up. See you all tomorrow morning.

Drivencrazy

17-02-2012, 23:47

Thank goodness it's being webcasted. Now I have a "legitimate" excuse to postpone studying for my finals. Good luck to all the teams participating. Can't wait to see how it pans out.

P.S. Yea I said finals. (We're on a trimesterish schedule)

jblay

18-02-2012, 10:13

Does anyone have the link for the webcast. I can't find anything on 230's site. Is the event being streamed?

jblay

18-02-2012, 10:14

I just found the stream. Here it is for anyone wondering: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/first-robotics-team230

Justin Montois

18-02-2012, 10:33

Looks like the ramps used to keep balls from under the bridges don't work that well....

FIRST might need some iteration...

blakeelias

18-02-2012, 11:02

Why are we watching the Kinect station for the whole match??

Koko Ed

18-02-2012, 11:04

I hope the camerawork improves greatly when they start doing actual matches.
Staring at the sidelines for a whole match is not really all that interesting.

Drivencrazy

18-02-2012, 11:25

Yeah Koko Ed. I was a bit frustrated but hopefully once the real matches start they'll show more of the action.

pyroslev

18-02-2012, 13:01

The camera man needs to know what to look for. I wanna see a bridge balancer, barrier crossing and the other biggies.

FTC qualifier I pulled the camera man aside and told him what to look for. Somebody needs to tell him these things while they're trouble shooting issues.

Thus far, I think we're in for low scoring matches.

Koko Ed

18-02-2012, 13:12

Webcast crashed.

Chinmay

18-02-2012, 13:17

Webcast is back

Mike Q.

18-02-2012, 15:08

A few observations just from watching the webcast. Hybrid and Balancing seem to determines most of the matches. This will probably be less and less the case as the season goes on though as more points will be scored in teleop. It also seems like up close scoring is the way to go early on. This is probably because there is not much defense being played so there is no need to shoot from the key and people haven't got their tracking working. It does seem as someone said earlier that a lot of balls end up under the ramps which prevent people from balancing. one last thing I noticed was that I think we will see quite a few robots end up on their back trying to double balance because the robot on the bridge tips it while the other robot is half on and the bridge tips the robot that's half on. It should be interesting to see how the game develops!

Becca334

18-02-2012, 16:00

Also noticed there were way more catapult like shooters then I would've expected.

Starke

18-02-2012, 16:01

MooreteP

18-02-2012, 17:29

Congratulations to Aces High, 176, The Whos'cteks, 716, and 2168, The Aluminum Falcons, on their win.

Many great teams and unique designs

Team 23 returns after a >10 year absence. Their design is unique and enviable. Pics later.

Here are some interesting observations:

Scoring balls matters, so hybrid matters.

In the endgame there were two robots on each bridge without much trouble, so those scores cancel.
The amount of time that they spend balancing and then waiting can be a tradeoff while others score. 230 could score from the ramp, but didn't.

Balls get stuck under the ramp, and the drivers can't see it as they try to trip the bridge. FIRST will probably fix this, but it could still become a defensive strategy to prevent balancing at the end, without physically touching the bridge.

Catapults work. There were two, Buzz, Team 175, and Team 558 RoboSquad. They take ball wear and variability out of the shooter equation, but usually require specific placement of the robot, which can be defended.

The barrier was not a problem. Balls under robots were.
I am thinking of suggesting the addition of some brushes under the bumpers to keep balls from getting under the robot. (without keeping them there!)

Bobcats were there and will probably be on Einstein again. :rolleyes:
They have a unique design in their ball acquisition device that, while not great at the scrimmage, will greatly reduce their scoring cycle time if they can make it work.

Team 23 was the only team to use the Kinect system. They used it to tip the coopertition bridge for balls in hybrid.

I will post some videos shortly, including:
The season's first coopertition score.
Team 23's Cool Vacuum Cannon.
Buzz's Catapult.
Some shooters.

This is going to be a very interesting game this year, it may rank pretty high among favorites.

MooreteP

18-02-2012, 19:01

Here are some videos from the Suffield Shakedown.

Here is the FIRST coopertition qualification points scored of the season:
http://youtu.be/HBwPsmAPN5M

This is the Team 23 Robot with a cool shooter cannon:
http://youtu.be/i1VVEy0sNow

This a the first of the finals matches that shows some good shooting and both bridges balanced with two robots each:
http://youtu.be/zbmAYkPZJHI

V_Chip

18-02-2012, 19:52

Great day at the Suffield Shakedown!

Thank you 176 Aces High for hosting this event and to 230 Gaelhawks for the webcast.

Congrats to 176, 716, and 2168 on their win.

About the game:

1) Balls getting lodged under the ramp appears to be a problem. :eek:

2) Not too much defense (yet) or crossing over. Didn't see any team go for the feeder station.

3) Balancing two will be a breeze with just a little more practice. Three is where the fun begins.

4) Getting the balls on the coopertition ramp should be in autonomous.

5) Autonomous and balancing are key.

Bill_B

18-02-2012, 19:59

Team 23's "cannon" is also a vacuum and a bridge tipper, bi-directional. They were trying kinect control but as a stopgap for autonomous since they have shortage of programming people. I chatted with their videographer in the stands.

dsalvucci

18-02-2012, 20:06

Wooh feeling the Team 23 love. But yes Kinect control was actually written less than 12 hours before the scrimmage since our programming team basically learned how to code in the last 6 weeks.

But the scrimmage was great. as a driver, i found this has helped fore practice more than anything else.

who716

18-02-2012, 21:40

Thank you team 176 for this great event. you did a great job organizing it.

One thing that surprised us very much was the force that was needed to pull down the bridge. The bridge that we made did not need nearly as much force, so unfortunetly the minipulator did not work. but other then that the game went really well, I feel it has the potential to be a high scoring games as during the eliminations there were scores into the 30. balancing was good never tried to go three as seems very difficult.

thanks again 176 and 2168 for a great time

RufflesRidge

18-02-2012, 22:26

Balls get stuck under the ramp, and the drivers can't see it as they try to trip the bridge. FIRST will probably fix this, but it could still become a defensive strategy to prevent balancing at the end, without physically touching the bridge.

G14 prevents this.

Strategies that use Basketballs to either aid or inhibit Balancing of any Bridge are not allowed.
Violation: Technical-Foul, and counting or discounting the affected Bridge as Balanced, as appropriate.

Chi Meson

18-02-2012, 22:34

Best day of robotics ever!

Whos-C's, Aces, you are great! Hope to meet again on the same side of the bump!

Drivencrazy

18-02-2012, 22:59

One thing that surprised us very much was the force that was needed to pull down the bridge. The bridge that we made did not need nearly as much force, so unfortunetly the minipulator did not work.

What were you using to manipulate the bridge? I was wondering how differently the actual bridges acted compared to many that teams built.

Balls get stuck under the ramp, and the drivers can't see it as they try to trip the bridge.

Did you notice how this happened? Were they thrown under there by the human players or what? I noticed a few human players trying to bounce balls to their offensive halves but saw few actually succeed. Also didn't see many balls thrown.

MarcD79

18-02-2012, 23:02

OK, here's my take on the Suffield Scrimmage. @ RufflesRidge; G14 really didn't apply here. They weren't put there on purpose. As robots attempted to tip the bridge to acquire the balls, they rolled in between the bot & the bridge as they backed up to retrieve them, bouncing back underneath. FIRST is aware of the balls getting stuck underneath. Balls getting stuck underneath was unintended. The drivers were unable to see what was happening. I'm sure there were some who thought things didn't go perfectly. Well, this IS a shakedown is it not?. FIRST discovered some difficulties & will be addressing them. Oh, and on team 23, I thought that was a grand design. A little tweaking, more practice & they will be a serious contender.

Chi Meson

18-02-2012, 23:12

Officials on the floor could easily dislodge the balls by pressing down (with a pole) on the opposite side of the bridge. This would lift up the poly where the ball is stuck AND it would not give an advantage to the robot trying to get onto the bridge from the home side.

No need to worry about the coopertition bridge since it would not harm one alliance over the other.

SciBorg Dave

19-02-2012, 00:56

Is there a place we can see some video of the competition ?

wireties

19-02-2012, 01:08

Did you guys (teams at the scrimmage) think there were more (or fewer) balls in play that you anticipated?

SciDKelly134

19-02-2012, 01:31

Here are a few of the robots that were at the "Shake" - Sorry for the few teams that got omitted ( I really wanted a picture of the air cannon but my photographer missed it and some others). Thanks Aces High for running another AWESOME event!!! - the information gathered was invaluable, like the ramps were WAY harder to knockdown than our wooden ones. We are headed for a review on mechanical advantage today. Hopefully, before we go home we will have a ramp arm that can lift our robot off the ground and if we can't get the ramp down with that, then ???

http://youtu.be/Nr8TkIyfhYk

MooreteP

19-02-2012, 08:19

Is there a place we can see some video of the competition ?

Posted earlier.
Here are some videos from the Suffield Shakedown.

Here is the FIRST coopertition qualification points scored of the season:
http://youtu.be/HBwPsmAPN5M

This is the Team 23 Robot with a cool shooter cannon:
http://youtu.be/i1VVEy0sNow

This a the first of the finals matches that shows some good shooting and both bridges balanced with two robots each:
http://youtu.be/zbmAYkPZJHI

who716

19-02-2012, 09:36

What were you using to manipulate the bridge? I was wondering how differently the actual bridges acted compared to many that teams built.

What we used for a minipulater was a air cylinder attached to an aluminum angle (Not sure what size cylinder as i did not work on the but i will get that next time are team meets on monday.) then attached to the end of the angle we had an lexan wedge the would come down ontop of the bridge ( if you would like pics ill put them up monday)

Did you notice how this happened? Were they thrown under there by the human players or what? I noticed a few human players trying to bounce balls to their offensive halves but saw few actually succeed. Also didn't see many balls thrown.

very rarly the human player threw under the bridge often time robots hit them under just by driving around the field, and i saw one human player throw the ball the distance of the field once throughout the whole practice and qulifying match as to have balls thrown they would need to be scored and not many was scored, but during the eliminations many more balls were scored so the human player played a big role.