Strategies for Rebound Rumble

[Andrew Lawrence]

What are your team strategies, ideas, or robot designs that you think will/won't work for 2012? How do you think matches will play out? How many offense? How many defense? What will YOU do?!

[akoscielski3]

I was thinking on the way home about 1 robot delivers balls to your side, 1 shoots the balls into the goals and the other plays defense.

Robot design, i have a shooter, a picking up (conveyor type) mechanism, and maybe a thing that would catch rebounds or balls from in the air like a basket or something. Definitely dont like that we can only have 3 balls in our possession. -.-

[Silver218]

For any defensive bots, what would be your teams strategy? We have talked about a defensive bot to possibly block shots from opposing teams

[Daniel_LaFleur]

For any defensive bots, what would be your teams strategy? We have talked about a defensive bot to possibly block shots from opposing teams

If we were to play defense (not sure yet), I'd defend the bump in the middle and keep my opponents from reloading, which will force their inbounders to put the balls into play on our side of the field without a robot there to pick them up.

[akoscielski3]

For any defensive bots, what would be your teams strategy? We have talked about a defensive bot to possibly block shots from opposing teams

Remember while in your alliance side your robot can not be taller than 60 in.

[Vision]

Rebound Rumble Ramp Challenge
www.TheRedAlliance.com (http://www.TheRedAlliance.com)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfLjgn67ArY

[ToddF]

Defensive spoilers:
- A defensive robot that funnels in rebounds becomes just another goal, if it has 3 balls in it's possession
- It's hard to block the shots of a robot taller than you are
- Inbounders can bounce pass balls to the far side of the field (see field tour videos on youtube)
- Entering the alley, to block bounce passes, invites G28/G44 penalties.

Todd F.

[Grim Tuesday]

Defensive spoilers:
- A defensive robot that funnels in rebounds becomes just another goal, if it has 3 balls in it's possession

Todd F.

On that subject, any robot with 3 balls that stays on the defending end of the field, hoarding them, becomes another goal.

[Richard Wallace]

On that subject, any robot with 3 balls that stays on the defending end of the field, hoarding them, becomes another goal.Do you mean that forcing opposing robots to commit [G22] fouls, by shooting or dropping balls into them, is legitimate way to score? Wouldn't [G44] prevent this? I didn't find a [G22] exception to [G44] in the manual. ::rtm::

[Andrew Lawrence]

Do you mean that forcing opposing robots to commit [G22] fouls, by shooting or dropping balls into them, is legitimate way to score? Wouldn't [G44] prevent this? I didn't find a [G22] exception to [G44] in the manual. ::rtm::

What if you had a turret and it shot into an opponent robot's hopper and they already had 3? In this situation, it's clearly not on purpose, and the judges know that.

[delsaner]

For any defensive bots, what would be your teams strategy? We have talked about a defensive bot to possibly block shots from opposing teams

You could pick up the balls are on the opponents side and fire them towards (not necessarily in) your hoops. Instead of blocking shots, starve them of balls so there are no shots TO block. The benefits of this are that you can play defensive with an offensively designed robot.

[EricLeifermann]

Defensive spoilers:
- A defensive robot that funnels in rebounds becomes just another goal, if it has 3 balls in it's possession
- It's hard to block the shots of a robot taller than you are
- Inbounders can bounce pass balls to the far side of the field (see field tour videos on youtube)
- Entering the alley, to block bounce passes, invites G28/G44 penalties.

Todd F.

Do you have a link to these videos?

[gyroscopeRaptor]

Do you have a link to these videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFiCbZLPRY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL is the first in the series of 5.

[Ninja_Bait]

What if you had a turret and it shot into an opponent robot's hopper and they already had 3? In this situation, it's clearly not on purpose, and the judges know that.

The blue box on G22 says that balls unintentionally "lodged" on your robot become actively controlled, and count toward the three ball limit. G44 would probably only stop applying if you did not try to get rid of balls.

[EricLeifermann]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFiCbZLPRY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL is the first in the series of 5.

Thanks, I was on FIRST youtube station but the videos weren't showing for me.

[ToddF]

You could pick up the balls are on the opponents side and fire them towards (not necessarily in) your hoops. Instead of blocking shots, starve them of balls so there are no shots TO block. The benefits of this are that you can play defensive with an offensively designed robot.

So, one possible strategy would be to play 2F-1B (2 forward, 1 back). The job of the F players is to scoop up balls and put them in the goals. These would be the primary point scorers. B's primary responsibility is to play defense by preventing ball starvation of the F's. B's secondary responsibility would be to avoid committing penalties. Given the many ways to commit fouls when on the defensive side of the field, this may be fairly difficult to do. Sort of like walking in a minefield.

A B robot could be made exactly like those from the 2010 game and be pretty effective. Of course, the ability to score from the defensive side of the field would be even better. But, even shooting and missing gets the B's job done.

[Ninja_Bait]

So, one possible strategy would be to play 2F-1B (2 forward, 1 back). The job of the F players is to scoop up balls and put them in the goals. These would be the primary point scorers. B's primary responsibility is to play defense by preventing ball starvation of the F's. B's secondary responsibility would be to avoid committing penalties. Given the many ways to commit fouls when on the defensive side of the field, this may be fairly difficult to do. Sort of like walking in a minefield.
Todd F.

A common and fairly effective strategy in Breakaway was to have scorers and feeders. I expect to see something similar this year, and probably every year with a goal-zone set up like this.

[om23]

zone defense or robot on robot defense?
---> having zone defense will probably be the best strategy since it allows two of your robots to continue scoring. and the robot that plays defense should be able to shoot balls across the field- there might be a chance that the robot makes the shot but it gives its alliance more balls to work with without going back and forth across the field.

[XaulZan11]

- Inbounders can bounce pass balls to the far side of the field (see field tour videos on youtube)

Does anyone have a video of the balls bouncing over the bridge?

[om23]

this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFiCbZLPRY&list=UUHA7zyPRS3VPDvl4ehss-zw&index=6&feature=plcp

all the videos about the field are on youtube.com/FRCTeamsGlobal

[smistthegreat]

You wouldn't have to bounce it over the bridge. If you enter it into the field at a slight angle, you would only have to make it over the 6 inch barrier.

[delsaner]

So, one possible strategy would be to play 2F-1B (2 forward, 1 back). The job of the F players is to scoop up balls and put them in the goals. These would be the primary point scorers. B's primary responsibility is to play defense by preventing ball starvation of the F's. B's secondary responsibility would be to avoid committing penalties. Given the many ways to commit fouls when on the defensive side of the field, this may be fairly difficult to do. Sort of like walking in a minefield.

A B robot could be made exactly like those from the 2010 game and be pretty effective. Of course, the ability to score from the defensive side of the field would be even better. But, even shooting and missing gets the B's job done.

Very true, and completely understandable. I may have initially underestimated the size of the key, but there appear to be a few safe spots for opposing robots to starve balls. For the B robot, as long as the balls get to the offensive zone, B is doing his job. As stated before, shooting into the hoop would be a 2-in-1 deal.

[donnie99]

A defensive bot will be effective this year no matter if another bot is taller. If a bot is in the key, I don't know how many teams would confidently put a shooting mechanism on an arm. This means that if the ball has to be lower than 60 inches, it will not matter, and of they try to put it into the basket, a defensive bot should be able to push the opponent away.

For a general scoring strategy, I was thinking of using a similar strategy to ours last year, using an encoder to put our shooter into a position so if the strength is set to a certain limit, it would hit the same spot and the have the same outcome each time. Doing this right at the hoops, will almost always give the desired results.

[SenorZ]

A reliable shooter in the key is going to be the clutch. If you could put a retriever in the lane to get balls and launch them into some sort of hopper on the shooterbot you could stay in the "no-touch" zone most of the match.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Something I see is at least one main shooter robot that can accurately fire into the top goal by sitting in the key area, one robot feeding it, and another either defending or staring the other team.

[Mewaffleo(CRaz)]

In the spirit of FIRST, I see a great strategy in cooperating with the opposing alliance to balance on the middle bridge. This "coopertition" not only gives you points to qualify, but is also a major component of Gracious Professionalism.

Besides the "coopertition" strategy, alliances going for their own bridges is a major point-scorer: 10 points for 1 robot balancing on the bridge; 20 points for 2 robots balancing on the bridge; and 40 points for 3 robots balancing on the bridge during elimination matches only. If alliances get any robots on their bridge, it will be a major advantage.

Another strategy for "Rebound Rumble" is scoring in hybrid (autonomous). If an alliance scores all of the balls they receive in hybrid (6 balls), a maximum of 36 points can be racked up. This puts said alliance in a winning position that would be very hard to catch up to.

Saying all of this, I believe the best strategy would be to score as many high pointers during hybrid, and then during the last 30 seconds of the match have two robots of the same alliance balance on their bridge while the other robot balances with an opposing team's robot on the "coopertition" bridge. Excluding teleoperated ball scoring, that is a total of 56 points!

I hope team benefit from these strategies.
-Camron Razdar (FIRST Team 27, Team RUSH)

[stevethetinker]

Message 13 provides a link to the episodes of the field tour, but it starts at episode 2. I've looked for episode 1 with no luck (too much search noise on utube). Is the first one worth watching? (the others were.) Where is the first one?

Steve K of 1288

[Flimsor]

I was thinking that if you had a robot that could score in the lower or middle hoops 90% to 100% of the time it could stay in position right up against the hoop, then we could have another robot picking up balls scored from the feeder and shooting them right at the collection system. If they are aimed well and they can be moved before there are 3 in possession of a robot, then we could really rack up a lot of points.

[mrducky]

Message 13 provides a link to the episodes of the field tour, but it starts at episode 2. I've looked for episode 1 with no luck (too much search noise on utube). Is the first one worth watching? (the others were.) Where is the first one?

Steve K of 1288

I saw a note there that said they decided not to publish the first episode, so it starts with episode 2.

[Hallry]

I saw a note there that said they decided not to publish the first episode, so it starts with episode 2.

Does anyone know what the first was supposed to be about, and why they decided to suddenly not release it? In the series, they say it has 6 parts, while now it only has 5. ::rtm::

[mrducky]

Does anyone know what the first was supposed to be about, and why they decided to suddenly not release it? In the series, they say it has 6 parts, while now it only has 5. ::rtm::

Just go to episode 2 and read the note.
There is no Episode 1. While we love this whole series, we decided not to publish Episode 1 because the animated character was exasperating and seemed like a merchandising opportunity.

[MathMaven]

For any defensive bots, what would be your teams strategy? We have talked about a defensive bot to possibly block shots from opposing teams
Based on what I've seen from the rules, I think a defensive strategy is not a good idea:

G14: "Strategies that use Basketballs to either aid or inhibit balancing of any Bridge are not allowed." --There goes one defensive strategy.
G20: "Robots in contact with the carpet on their Alliance Station end of the Court are limited to 60 in tall. Otherwise, Robots are limited to 84 in tall." --Your Alliance Station is where your opponents score this year; a 60-inch tall robot leaves the second and third rows open for scoring. Clearly, blocking is being discouraged.
G23: "Robots on the same Alliance may not work together to blockade the Court in an attempt to stop the flow of the Match. This rule has no effect on individual Robot-to-Robot defense." G24: "Intentionally falling down or tipping over to block the Court is not allowed." G25: "Robots may not contact or otherwise interfere with the opposing Alliance Bridge. . . . If the act of Balancing is interfered with, also a Red Card and the Bridge will be counted as Balanced." --More strategies for defense downplayed.
G28: "Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge." --According to the Blue Box, "This rule applied at all times, no matter who initiates the contact, see [G44]." In other words, you can take advantage of an annoying robot in your Key, Alley, or Bridge (just don't violate [G45]), so it's best to stay away from those areas.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

Extra balls not placed on robots will be put on the co-op bridge. An autonomous program could suck those balls up after firing the two balls already on. This will be the equivalent of the double hang this year for autonomous.

Two balls will be placed on the alliance bridges. A team with a "tipper" could gain a speed advantage by placing one ball from that robot on the co-op bridge, grabbing the balls from the alliance bridge, and then another robot (or the same, but only after firing the one ball) could take the center ball.

I'm meandering a bit, but a device to tip the balances will be useful on any team's robot and should be incredibly easy to implement.

[om23]

so is their a 84" height limit of the robot on its scoring side? And where does it say that a robot can't touch the basketball hoops while scoring?

[donnie99]

so is their a 84" height limit of the robot on its scoring side? And where does it say that a robot can't touch the basketball hoops while scoring?

It doesn't specifically say you can't touch the hoops, but if you damage them, it will be a penalty under the safety rules, and yes, the most is 84" on the scoring half.

Also, what would be good for scoring is to not be in the key unless you have an extremely reliable shooter. A bot with 6 or 8 wheel tank drive, or even 4 wheel drive will be hard to move from the side if it has a low center of gravity, and will not move and make it easy to score quick baskets close to the hoops.

[MathMaven]

so is their a 84" height limit of the robot on its scoring side? And where does it say that a robot can't touch the basketball hoops while scoring?

Actually, there's a universal 84' limit, and a 60' limit if you're on your opponents' side of the Court. Also, you must begin at under 60'.::rtm::

[om23]

someone on my team today said that we should calculate the Center of Mass for each robot and calculate the I value so we will be able to balance the bots in the end game efficiently!

[Tetraman]

It was shot down in our meeting, so here is my idea:

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge. Also, you can use it with your opponent's robot so you and your opponent can easily balance on the Coop bridge together as one entity rather than two.

[Andrew Lawrence]

It was shot down in our meeting, so here is my idea:

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge. Also, you can use it with your opponent's robot so you and your opponent can easily balance on the Coop bridge together as one entity rather than two.

I see that as the "Work 100% of the time defensive robot that does not ever play offense."

In other words, for a defensive robot would just dominate with that!

[Tetraman]

I see that as the "Work 100% of the time defensive robot that does not ever play offense."

In other words, for a defensive robot would just dominate with that!

The bottom half of the robot could still pass around balls to your team mates on the other side of the field.

But since the rest of the team wanted a very offensive robot, I stood down and will love to see any other team take that on.

[MathMaven]

It was shot down in our meeting, so here is my idea:

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge. Also, you can use it with your opponent's robot so you and your opponent can easily balance on the Coop bridge together as one entity rather than two.

That's genius!:ahh:

Of course, you'd still need to make the robot able to score baskets, but still!

[Tetraman]

I mean, I imagine one robot right under the Inbounder, and with a high powered burst of speed you rocket the ball straight from the Inbounder to the other side of the field (and up your bridge too, if you set it right). Imagine how easy that would make gathering balls to your team mates.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

That's genius!:ahh:

Of course, you'd still need to make the robot able to score baskets, but still!

The robot, provided it is a kitbot/KoS/similar pattern, would not rest on the middle of the robot. Make a hole in whatever surface you would use in the center, where wheels would not touch, and throw balls through there.

[Peyton Yeung]

It was shot down in our meeting, so here is my idea:

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge. Also, you can use it with your opponent's robot so you and your opponent can easily balance on the Coop bridge together as one entity rather than two.

sounds like this http://www.wildstang.org/main/video.php?year=2001

[gyroscopeRaptor]

sounds like this http://www.wildstang.org/main/video.php?year=2001

The challenge in making a rampbot will definitely be overcoming the 14-inch protrusion limit, a constraint this robot didn't have.

[slijin]

It doesn't specifically say you can't touch the hoops, but if you damage them, it will be a penalty under the safety rules, and yes, the most is 84" on the scoring half.

Just as a note - although this already has been raised in various other threads - the dimension constraints also physically limit you from extending the robot sufficiently close enough to the hoops to contact them.

Perhaps aiming at a certain point on the rim to bounce the ball in would work - FIRST must've replaced the springs for a reason.

[mdiradoorian]

also there is nothing stopping you from going onto the fender as of right now.

[XaulZan11]

What about building a super small robot that is great at climbing the bridges? Their likely won't be 24 teams that can score hoops or shoot balls, so if a top alliance's 3rd robot gives them a huge advantage in getting 3 teams balanced for 40 points, I think they could be valuable.

[Koko Ed]

sounds like this http://www.wildstang.org/main/video.php?year=2001

One thing to remember is what worked in 2001 may not work today due to bumpers.

[bduddy]

It was shot down in our meeting, so here is my idea:

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge. Also, you can use it with your opponent's robot so you and your opponent can easily balance on the Coop bridge together as one entity rather than two.
Or... what if you then lifted the other robot up, such that the combined stack of robots was high enough to block the middle, or even the high hoops?

[FantomDannie]

So, if we were to have defensive robots, we'd be at a slight disadvantage due to height of the hoops versus the 60 in height limit on the robot. That makes sense - we'd just have to find a way to implement the defensive strategy in some other ways. Does anyone else have an idea about the defensive line of the game?

One other thing: Do we have to play the game as full court? As in, crossing over the barrier at least once or all the time. Along with that, is it against the rules to have a robot stay in a corner during the game?

[Sean Raia]

One other thing: Do we have to play the game as full court? As in, crossing over the barrier at least once or all the time. Along with that, is it against the rules to have a robot stay in a corner during the game?

You may take shots from anywhere on the field, and as long as you are not in the opposing alliances zone, corner camping is perfectly legal.

[Grim Tuesday]

You may take shots from anywhere on the field, and as long as you are not in the opposing alliances zone, corner camping is perfectly legal.

But you should know that your supply of balls is dependent on how much your opponent can score.

[Bjenks548]

But you should know that your supply of balls is dependent on how much your opponent can score.

or how much they miss...

[Ninja_Bait]

But you should know that your supply of balls is dependent on how much your opponent can score.

Or how many you score and then force out of the opposing inbounders.

[Mark Sheridan]

or how much they miss...

Maybe a better defensive strategy is rebounding missed shots and passing those and inbound balls to offensive teammates?

Perhaps the nature of defense for this game is not to prevent opponents from shooting but forcing them to shoot from positions with a higher chance of missing?

[Ninja_Bait]

Defense for this game will just be preventing scoring by any (legal) means possible. That means forcing bad positions, starving balls and blocking shots.

[RedLeader342]

For any defensive bots, what would be your teams strategy? We have talked about a defensive bot to possibly block shots from opposing teams

unless the robot is in the foul zone, or the key, you can put up a little arm thing and block shots from right up in their face and be all like TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[wilhitern1]

Does anyone else have an idea about the defensive line of the game?

A burst of air can divert a shot at a distance.

[wilhitern1]

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge.

If a robot's wheels are parallel to its short side rather than its long side, it takes up a lot less space.

If a robot was heavily balasted to one end, it would balance much easier, even hanging off one end.

[Bob Steele]

Just as a note - although this already has been raised in various other threads - the dimension constraints also physically limit you from extending the robot sufficiently close enough to the hoops to contact them.

Perhaps aiming at a certain point on the rim to bounce the ball in would work - FIRST must've replaced the springs for a reason.

i don't think you could touch the basket. It is a height limit...
You will still be limited to going outside the frame perimeter ..
You are allowed a single projection of 14" ... with a 3" bumper your projection is only 11" outside the robot bumper.

The unit at the bottom of the baskets extends 38" approximately from the wall.
So your frame perimeter is approximately 41" from the wall.
With a 14" extension that would mean that you would be 41" - 14" = 27" from the wall...

I am not sure how far the hoops stick out... but with a 20" circular hoop and its associated hanger it is pretty close.

i would imagine that the game planners figured this out pretty well so that touching the hoop would not be possible.

Obviously no matter what size the hoops are... no one could EVER touch the top hoop...(it is beyond the allowable height...

[Steven Sigley]

Big strategy = ball control.
Your inbounders hold their 2 balls each, your robots hold their 3 balls each, and suddenly the opposing alliance is ball starved to only 3.
you keep one robot right in the alley to shoot back across the court whenever an extra ball is scored and an inbounder has to let one go.
Thus each time the opposing alliance scores they have to drive all the way across the court to get the ball again.
Balance for bonus points and the win assuming your opponents cant.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Big strategy = ball control.
Your inbounders hold their 2 balls each, your robots hold their 3 balls each, and suddenly the opposing alliance is ball starved to only 3.
you keep one robot right in the alley to shoot back across the court whenever an extra ball is scored and an inbounder has to let one go.
Thus each time the opposing alliance scores they have to drive all the way across the court to get the ball again.
Balance for bonus points and the win assuming your opponents cant.

I think the better strategy is robot control if a good defensive robot is able to keep the opposing team on their side of the bumper, while picking up balls rom the key and shooting them back at their alliance, their alliance members will be free to pick up the balls from the opponent's key, and score again, creating and endless loop of scoring and restoring. Now 3v1 would be hard on the defending robot, so maybe 1 big scorer that does the repetitive scoring and 2 defensive robots. Once you get over the bump/bridge, it becomes easier to stop others from doing it. Plus, you can practice ball starvation that way.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Big strategy = ball control.
Your inbounders hold their 2 balls each, your robots hold their 3 balls each, and suddenly the opposing alliance is ball starved to only 3.
you keep one robot right in the alley to shoot back across the court whenever an extra ball is scored and an inbounder has to let one go.
Thus each time the opposing alliance scores they have to drive all the way across the court to get the ball again.
Balance for bonus points and the win assuming your opponents cant.

Weaknesses in this strategy:
1> when your opponent scores you also are assessed a foul because you now have a ball in the corral that none of your inbounders can immediatly take (they each have 2)(and even if 1 of the inbounders enters a ball onto the field they will be out of position to immediately take a ball from the corral).
2> The recieveing robot is in your opponants alley, and if contacted (regardless of who initiates the contact) will incur a foul.
3> you assume your opponant cannot balance ... I'd not make that assumption.

[brennonbrimhall]

Big strategy = ball control.
Your inbounders hold their 2 balls each, your robots hold their 3 balls each, and suddenly the opposing alliance is ball starved to only 3.
you keep one robot right in the alley to shoot back across the court whenever an extra ball is scored and an inbounder has to let one go.
Thus each time the opposing alliance scores they have to drive all the way across the court to get the ball again.
Balance for bonus points and the win assuming your opponents cant.

The problem with this strategy is what you will do with these balls once you have them. Either you end up starving yourself, being forced to let go of a ball, or you try to score – which puts the balls right back into the opponent's hands. And that's not including the other 3 balls that you can't control.

That being said, this idea is still very useful as a delaying tactic.

[Steven Sigley]

The problem with this strategy is what you will do with these balls once you have them. Either you end up starving yourself, being forced to let go of a ball, or you try to score – which puts the balls right back into the opponent's hands. And that's not including the other 3 balls that you can't control.

That being said, this idea is still very useful as a delaying tactic.

Yes you starve yourself as well, but this strategy is more for a team that is playing against high scoring bots, and likes their chances better at relying on ramp points.

[karomata]

I believe the secret is actually in the coopertition bridge. If you create a robot that can line itself up on the bridge and it would be right in line to score. Also, by remaining on that bridge for periods of time, the opposing alliance can only use their own bridge. Also, towards the end of a match, you're already where you need to be to possibly score coopertition points!

[trissinata]

It was shot down in our meeting, so here is my idea:

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge. Also, you can use it with your opponent's robot so you and your opponent can easily balance on the Coop bridge together as one entity rather than two.

Our team 1111 tried that i believe 2 years ago, it did not work at all, but if your team could pull it off, with enough time after and before your done making it to calculate the proper weight distrapution it might work. An arm to keep it down might also work.

[magi65]

I'd defend the bump in the middle and keep my opponents from reloading, which will force their inbounders to put the balls into play on our side of the field without a robot there to pick them up.

According to [G23] Robots on the same Alliance may not work together to blockade the Court in an attempt to stop the flow of the Match.

[swwrobotics]

Our team was thinking of just waiting underneath the hoops on the opposing alliance's side. This way, for all the balls that are missed, they could fall into a funnel on our robot that would focus them into a launching device and shoot them back onto our side.

So based on this idea, is our robot allowed to remain in front of the hoops for the whole match as long as it is under five feet?

[om23]

So based on this idea, is our robot allowed to remain in front of the hoops for the whole match as long as it is under five feet?

Yeah, you're allowed to do this. But make sure you have a way of stopping the balls from entering the funnel. Once you get more than 3 balls its a foul. And the other alliance gains points.

For EVERYONE- not matter defense or offense- make sure you have a way of picking the ball off the ground. Even the most perfect robots will miss the shots from different angles- its a great chance to get rebounds and get some easy points!

[SniperJoe101]

I love the idea of coopertition but honestly I believe the best way to score points is 3 robots on the alliance bridge. Obviously during qualifying it would be very hard to do but once in elimination you have an established alliance. You can then focus on finding the correct way to balance all 3 bots and score 40 points. That could easily turn the tides of any match. Especially when this year's game is so reliant on an accurate shooter for high scoring matches. One thing that Im going to bring up with team 1678 is to make a computer program which you just input the weight and some other values into it and it outputs a configuration for all 3 bots.

Another strategy I have thought of is to have a bot sit right at the inbound station and pretty much have the inbounder hand load the bot which then fires the balls across the court and to the other alliance members. This would help keep from ball starvation and allow the inbounder to be more effective.

[MikeReilly]

For Rookie Teams: consider making a very small bot that can easily squeeze onto a bridge as the 3rd, and can herd balls to your alliance, or maybe flip them over the barrier. This will make you a very desirable 3rd pick for Eliminations.

[DonRotolo]

Our team was thinking of just waiting underneath the hoops on the opposing alliance's side. This way, for all the balls that are missed, they could fall into a funnel on our robot that would focus them into a launching device and shoot them back onto our side.

So based on this idea, is our robot allowed to remain in front of the hoops for the whole match as long as it is under five feet?
Also think about the three offensive robots, each up to 84" tall, right next to each other in the key shooting at baskets: Will you be able to shoot past or over them to get balls back onto your side?

[bduddy]

I love the idea of coopertition but honestly I believe the best way to score points is 3 robots on the alliance bridge. Obviously during qualifying it would be very hard to do but once in elimination you have an established alliance. You can then focus on finding the correct way to balance all 3 bots and score 40 points. That could easily turn the tides of any match. Especially when this year's game is so reliant on an accurate shooter for high scoring matches. One thing that Im going to bring up with team 1678 is to make a computer program which you just input the weight and some other values into it and it outputs a configuration for all 3 bots.It seems like you might be confusing the scoring systems a bit. The coopertition bonus only applies during qualifying matches, where it is worth as much as a win; getting 40 points for balancing 3 robots only applies during eliminations (otherwise it is worth the same 20 points as balancing 2 robots).

[Mr. Pockets]

I love the idea of coopertition but honestly I believe the best way to score points is 3 robots on the alliance bridge. Obviously during qualifying it would be very hard to do but once in elimination you have an established alliance. You can then focus on finding the correct way to balance all 3 bots and score 40 points. That could easily turn the tides of any match. .
A few things:
1.) Qetting the coopertition bonus is the equivalent of winning the match even if you lost it. Think of it this way: Going through extra trouble to add more robots might win you the match, and you'll get the 2 qualification points. Or you can go and put one bot on the coopertition bridge...and get 2 qualification points whether you win or lose. No matter how you pick it, your action will only get you two qualification points.
2.) There aren't additional points for balancing three robots in the qualification rounds so there's no reason to really try, except for practice.
3.) In the elimination round there is nothing gained from using the coopertition bridge, so the choice is once again a moot one.

Edit: ninja'd

Also think about the three offensive robots, each up to 84" tall, right next to each other in the key shooting at baskets: Will you be able to shoot past or over them to get balls back onto your side?
Strictly speaking, I doubt most bots are going to be even close to that tall, but in that case I would really recommend high mobility, maybe mechanum or swerve drive, to zip around them to shoot the balls quickly.

As an aside, three offensive bots seems like a risky trick considering the long time needed to get new balls after you score/get your rebounds yanked.

[SniperJoe101]

It seems like you might be confusing the scoring systems a bit. The coopertition bonus only applies during qualifying matches, where it is worth as much as a win; getting 40 points for balancing 3 robots only applies during eliminations (otherwise it is worth the same 20 points as balancing 2 robots).

Yeah. I was confused. Thanks for clearing it up :)

[rich2202]

also there is nothing stopping you from going onto the fender as of right now.

The highest the bumper can be covers 5-10". The fender is 8.25-10.25". so, from the front, the bumper between 5-8.25" would stop you from climbing onto the fender. Unless, the bumper is slanted (is that allowed?).

[pandamonium]

having one robot able to shoot 5 or more balls in Hybrid mode. Even scoring 3/5 gives a huge advantage. 18 Points! It is going to be hard to recover in telleop mode.

[wilhitern1]

Has anyone mentioned that 2 24 inch wide robots can fit on a ramp side by side?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

According to [G23] Robots on the same Alliance may not work together to blockade the Court in an attempt to stop the flow of the Match.

I was talking about only 1 robot doing the defense. Remember, as a defender, the barrier is your friend ;)

[JamesCH95]

Has anyone mentioned that 2 24 inch wide robots can fit on a ramp side by side?

What about bumpers?

[LinuxArchitect]

What about bumpers?

Perhaps have one robot 8 inches ahead of the other, both with the allowed gaps in bumpers along the sides. Also have one side overhang the edge. That would save what, 9-10 inches? So each robot could be 27 wide, counting the bumpers.

[JamesCH95]

Perhaps have one robot 8 inches ahead of the other, both with the allowed gaps in bumpers along the sides. Also have one side overhang the edge. That would save what, 9-10 inches? So each robot could be 27 wide, counting the bumpers.

I like that idea of "interlocking" the bumpers. It could also help front/rear spacing too.

[JamesBrown]

Perhaps have one robot 8 inches ahead of the other, both with the allowed gaps in bumpers along the sides. Also have one side overhang the edge. That would save what, 9-10 inches? So each robot could be 27 wide, counting the bumpers.

It would be incredibly tough to line up two robots like this quicky, then get them onto the bridge and get it balanced. In a task that should really be completed quickly like this one you are going to want to eliminate any fine motions that your driver may have to do.

[Bob Steele]

Has anyone mentioned that 2 24 inch wide robots can fit on a ramp side by side?

I am beating my head on the wall trying to figure out why this never occurred to me....

genius... not sure if it can be done... (24 " robot width would have to include two bumpers in between... but certainly a great approach..

[Kevin3459]

This is one thing that my team found out about a hording strategy. That if you put the balls in the lane as a safe zone so the other team can not get them that does not work.
Because there is no rule that your robot can't go into the lane. The only rule is that your bot does not touch any of the other teams bots.
This is true for the key as well.

[G28] Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.

[Siri]

This is one thing that my team found out about a hording strategy. That if you put the balls in the lane as a safe zone so the other team can not get them that does not work.
Because there is no rule that your robot can't go into the lane. The only rule is that your bot does not touch any of the other teams bots.
This is true for the key as well.

[G28] Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.The opposing Alley itself is not off-limits. All Alley hoarding strategies require a guarding robot of the same Alliance as the Alley itself. The Feeder robot corners itself around the collection slot, not touching (and thus actively controlling), but close enough to keep opposing robots from picking up. Variations include the defending robot picking up <= 3 balls at a time and shooting them back across the field.

[DonRotolo]

Unless, the bumper is slanted (is that allowed?).Interesting. I can't find anything prohibiting that.

[rich2202]

This is one thing that my team found out about a hording strategy. That if you put the balls in the lane as a safe zone so the other team can not get them that does not work.

You can hoard on your bridge. BTW: You have to be up on the score to make hoarding work. Given the short time frame of the game, why bother developing hoarding abilities when you might as well use the time to get ahead even more?

[Siri]

You can hoard on your bridge. BTW: You have to be up on the score to make hoarding work. Given the short time frame of the game, why bother developing hoarding abilities when you might as well use the time to get ahead even more?Without advocating anything, there are two very straight-forward (but not necessarily easy) reasons:
- You can't win a head-to-head Teleop, but you beat them in Hybrid
- You know you can't win a head-to-head Teleop, and the best bet for your alliance is the Bridge. Even if it's not guaranteed, it could be your best shot if that's the way the alliances are skewed.

Essentially, If you can gain a considerable lead in Hybrid or get within your Bridge differential, but know you can't hold it once their Teleop scoring picks up, shutting down ball control could be very effective. Don't assume the only way to get ahead it to do something that hoarding inhibits.

[swwrobotics]

Is there a rule against using your kinect as a sensor on your robot?

[markbean]

Make a robot with a ramp allowing another robot to drive on top of you, and you then solve the problem of how to get 3 robots on the bridge. Also, you can use it with your opponent's robot so you and your opponent can easily balance on the Coop bridge together as one entity rather than two.

Why build a ramp when there are already three perfectly good ramps on the field? Build a robot 24" tall (or compacts to that height) that can hold a field ramp in the up position so another robot can climb on top of you.

Some remaining problems to solve are::

How do you keep the robot on top of you from falling off when you try to get on the ramp? They would need to have a very low center of gravity as well.
How do you fit in gathering and shooting mechanisms in a robot that short?

[rich2202]

Is there a rule against using your kinect as a sensor on your robot?

No, but there are a lot of implementation issues. Search for the kinect threads.

One clarification you may need is: Who supplies the Kinect for the Hybrid mode?