View Full Version : Questions on the arena
In the rules, it states that the apposing team can not enter the 'key'. In the diagrams of the arena, it says the size of the what it says the 'key' is. Which is 101in wide and 48in deep. Also says that the edge is 144in from the alliance station. My team is confused on wether it is that entire area or just the solid semi-circle area.
We where also wondering on what the other two human players are aloud to do. Pick balls out of the corral, put balls through the inbound station, all of the above? We only know that the kinect players can move to the start line area.
Please help!! Thanks a ton.
The lines extending from the key to the alliance wall are for decoration. The shaded key is the only section with significance.
For the human players, I think retrieve balls from the corral and send balls through the inbound station are basically all there is to do, aside from look good. :cool:
Grim Tuesday
07-01-2012, 21:25
The lines extending from the key to the alliance wall are for decoration. The shaded key is the only section with significance.
For the human players, I think retrieve balls from the corral and send balls through the inbound station are basically all there is to do, aside from look good. :cool:
Or more precisely, not send balls back and horde them.
Or more precisely, not send balls back and horde them.
<G31> ...each Inbounder may hold a maximum of two Basketballs. During Teleop, Inbounders must remove Basketballs from the Corral immediately upon arrival. All Basketballs in the Alliance Station must be held by Inbounders once removed from the Corral.
I suppose you could drop them through the inbound slot and keep the alley well guarded.
Steve Howland
07-01-2012, 21:41
I suppose you could drop them through the inbound slot and keep the alley well guarded.
Check out the Field Tour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFiCbZLPRY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL) videos if you haven't already. Looks like you could possibly bounce them through the slot to the other side, as long as nothing is in the way.
So, we can have three human players on each alliance? We are now arguing what the other two human players are doing. It is either, stand there and be pretty and have one putting into play or all 3 grab balls to put back into play, which then you would have up to 6 balls on each alliance side.
Check out the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFiCbZLPRY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (Field Tour) videos if you haven't already. Looks like you could possibly bounce them through the slot to the other side, as long as nothing is in the way.
That link doesn't seem to work for me, anyone else?
That link doesn't seem to work for me, anyone else?
Check here for a full list:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=99433
Steve Howland
07-01-2012, 22:33
That link doesn't seem to work for me, anyone else?
Sorry, fixed now!
Sorry, fixed now!
Thanks a ton, very useful. Although, even they question how many can be holding.
Anyone have any idea of how many of the human players from each team can be holding basketballs and using them? We would really like to know so we get our strategy down.
Anyone have any idea of how many of the human players from each team can be holding basketballs and using them? We would really like to know so we get our strategy down.
In lieu of any GDC decisions, each inbounder can hold 2 basketballs indefinitely at any given time. Of course, don't forget to consider the other rules in 3.1.6.
Steven Donow
08-01-2012, 12:11
Anyone have any idea of how many of the human players from each team can be holding basketballs and using them? We would really like to know so we get our strategy down.
Per rule <G31>
[G31]
Only Inbounders may contact Basketballs; each Inbounder may hold a maximum of two Basketballs. During Teleop, Inbounders must remove Basketballs from the Corral immediately upon arrival. All Basketballs in the Alliance Station must be held by Inbounders once removed from the Corral.
Violation: Foul
Emphasis mine, this means that your one Inbounder for each team can hold two Basketballs, meaning that 6 Basketballs can be held by the three Human players/Inbounders from the three teams in the alliance at each time.::rtm::
DonRotolo
08-01-2012, 13:22
this means that your one Inbounder for each team can hold two Basketballs, meaning that 6 Basketballs can be held by the three Human players/Inbounders from the three teams in the alliance at each time.And, if another ball comes into the corral, an inbounder had better get rid of one ball immediately, since removing the ball from the corral must also be done immediately.
There are some logistical issues here, since the inbounder closest to the slot is the logical choice to drop a ball through the slot, while the inbounder closest tot he corral is the logical choice to pick up the ball from the corral immediately...
Bjenks548
08-01-2012, 13:35
Everyone could just pass one ball to the right. The in-bounder on the far right puts one of his/her balls into play. I'm very curious as to what the "Immediately" means exactly. Is it up to the refs? Is there a set time? Either way, hording 6 balls could be a dangerous strategy...
Steven Donow
08-01-2012, 13:52
Everyone could just pass one ball to the right. The in-bounder on the far right puts one of his/her balls into play. I'm very curious as to what the "Immediately" means exactly. Is it up to the refs? Is there a set time? Either way, hording 6 balls could be a dangerous strategy...
I would assume eventually an update will be released giving an exact formula/algorithm of some sorts to determine this-I believe that's what they did in 2010. Basically, IIRC, the way formula/algorithm was written was so that you had more time to get rid of the balls once you had more balls in the alliance station.
minibot263
08-01-2012, 14:16
Im wondering if you get penilized for entering the other alliances alley? I havent seen any rules about not being allowed to.
Ninja_Bait
08-01-2012, 14:17
You are only penalized when you touch an opposing robot in the alley. Same for the keys.
Steven Donow
08-01-2012, 14:24
Im wondering if you get penilized for entering the other alliances alley? I havent seen any rules about not being allowed to.
No, there appears to be no penalty for entering your opponent's Alley(and you don't get penalized in the Catalyst simulator), only when there is contact. Regardless of who commits the contact. In other words, if you're in your opponent's alley, you're fine, but if someone on your opponent's alliance touches your robot, the penalty is against you, per <G28> and the blue box underneath it:
[G28]
Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.
This rule applied at all times, no matter who initiates the contact, see [G44].
Looks like you could possibly bounce them through the slot to the other side, as long as nothing is in the way.
This would change our strategy massively. Does anyone have a setup to try it yet?
Steven Donow
08-01-2012, 14:31
This would change our strategy massively. Does anyone have a setup to try it yet?
It's not necessarilly a setup needed in my opinion, moreso just the brute force required to do such a thing. And the fact that rule <G33> doesn't clarify whether or not Inbounders can break the vertical plane formed by the Starting Line, or if the rule is only that their feet can't cross it, so that's something to think about. Also keep in mind, the under-publicized "end game", as I consider it, is that in the last 30 seconds, you can throw the ball over the Inbound Station.
This would change our strategy massively. Does anyone have a setup to try it yet?
We had a field set up in NC yesterday and one of the mentors demonstrated a method of throwing the ball through the slots so that it would bounce over the barrier if unimpeded.
GaryVoshol
08-01-2012, 17:47
And the fact that rule <G33> doesn't clarify whether or not Inbounders can break the vertical plane formed by the Starting Line, or if the rule is only that their feet can't cross it, so that's something to think about.
Past interpretations have been foot faults. In fact, it pretty much has to be that, because the Corral is beyond the Starting Line. You can't have one rule that says the Inbounders must reach across the line, and another that says they can't. But it's something to ask the GDC.
Past interpretations have been foot faults. In fact, it pretty much has to be that, because the Corral is beyond the Starting Line. You can't have one rule that says the Inbounders must reach across the line, and another that says they can't. But it's something to ask the GDC.Except...
[G33]
...
Inbounders must remain behind the Starting Line during the Match.
I'm not sure the Starting Line extends across the front of the Corral, so the question may be irrelevant anyway.
I would assume eventually an update will be released giving an exact formula/algorithm of some sorts to determine this-I believe that's what they did in 2010. Basically, IIRC, the way formula/algorithm was written was so that you had more time to get rid of the balls once you had more balls in the alliance station.
Keep in mind that in 2010, there were sensors that could keep track of every time a ball entered and exited. There are no sensors (as far as I can tell) on the inbound slot. Hence it would be kinda hard to determine the time it takes to inbound the ball after it is scored.
Everyone could just pass one ball to the right. The in-bounder on the far right puts one of his/her balls into play. I'm very curious as to what the "Immediately" means exactly. Is it up to the refs? Is there a set time? Either way, hording 6 balls could be a dangerous strategy...
That is only if we can have more then one inbounded with a set. Also, we will need to ask if passing is aloud.
[G31]
Only Inbounders may contact Basketballs; each Inbounder may hold a maximum of two Basketballs. During Teleop, Inbounders must remove Basketballs from the Corral immediately upon arrival. All Basketballs in the Alliance Station must be held by Inbounders once removed from the Corral.
Violation: Foul
If one Inbounder passes (throws) the Basketball to another Inbounder, then after the first Inbounder throws the Basketball, but before the second Inbounder catches it:
The Basketball in the air, it has been removed from the Corral, it is in the Alliance Station, but it is not being held by an Inbounder. This seems like a violation of [G31].
Of course, by this interpretation, throwing the Basketball into the Inbound Slot would also violate [G31] despite probably being within the intent of the game rules.
If one Inbounder passes (throws) the Basketball to another Inbounder, then after the first Inbounder throws the Basketball, but before the second Inbounder catches it:
The Basketball in the air, it has been removed from the Corral, it is in the Alliance Station, but it is not being held by an Inbounder. This seems like a violation of [G31].
Of course, by this interpretation, throwing the Basketball into the Inbound Slot would also violate [G31] despite probably being within the intent of the game rules.
Huh, that is interesting. But, we don't need to 'throw' it either. Can just do a line and pass it if you desire.
Back to the original question, it is sounding like we can have up to three in-bounders holding 6 basketballs at one time?
wilhitern1
09-01-2012, 18:09
This would change our strategy massively. Does anyone have a setup to try it yet?
Tried! Succeeded. Was able to get one bounce in the near court and the next in the far court on my best try. With nothing but field elements in the way, I was able to get around 75% over the hump. With practice and more youth, I'd predict more like 95% for the best throwers. A variant of a volley ball serve can be made to work too, but I only tried it once.
Tried! Succeeded. Was able to get one bounce in the near court and the next in the far court on my best try. With nothing but field elements in the way, I was able to get around 75% over the hump. With practice and more youth, I'd predict more like 95% for the best throwers. A variant of a volley ball serve can be made to work too, but I only tried it once.
Cool! Thanks!
rich2202
13-01-2012, 00:15
In the rules, it states that the apposing team can not enter the 'key'.
Where did you see that? g28 prevents contact with an opponent bot in the key, but not being in the key if no one else is around. G25 is the only position restriction (can't touch the other team's bridge).
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