Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Car Nack predicts 12-3

During the FRC season there will never be a match where all six robots will be balanced on a bridge.

Car Nack has spoken.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I believe that the great Car Nack will be proven wrong, possibly during week 1.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I think there will be. Especially in qualification matches. Two on each bridge wont be terribly difficult.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I think you can book that one.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Car Nack was proven wrong last year in saying there would never be six logos. I say that he is wrong on this prediction. Wise Car Nack, give us more wise predictions.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Are you assuming his use of "a" bridge implies the singular?

Because it seems quite plausible that at somewhere like MSC with lots of good robots you could get 2-2-2 during quals.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

"A bridge" = "Any bridge". At least that's how I interpret it.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Yep.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I would also have to disagree with this statement assuming the wise Car Nack means any combination on all three bridges.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

The prediction would be more likely if it refers to three robots on each alliance's bridge.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

First off I wouldn't consider the MSC part of the regular season. Chances are having 6 robots able to climb ramps to start with and then be able to coordinate to achieve such a feet are almost nill.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Wouldn't a lot of robots that are able to drive be able to climb a ramp? As a lot of videos have shown, one robot doesn't even need a bridge manipulator to climb a ramp as long as the other robot trying to climb with it does. So I would say the chances of six robots (especially at some of the stronger regionals/district events) being able to climb the ramp is pretty high. Now whether or not they try to is a different question.

I disagree with Car Nack on this one. I think it'll happen a few times.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I too disagree. Most of the successful robots will be able to traverse the bridge, and in the end of the match there will be nothing better to do, unless it is a really close game where getting coopertition points is not worth being unable to score. It'll probably happen a few times at most of the regionals; I'll be watching Long Beach.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

MSC? Help me out here. Is this like an IRI only west of the Rockies?

I don't know about Car Nack's prediction but I can tell you that perhaps his thinking not that it is not possible but that the motivation may not be what many people think. For example if Alliance 1 and Alliance 4 both won in round 1 of the elims, by balancing 3 each against opponents that did not balance 3. Then each alliance knows when they meet in that the other can get 40 points -- but it in this case, neither team will choose to do so because they know that if they do, the other team will do... ...so why not keep scoring in the baskets instead?

Joe J.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

MSC = Michigan State Championship

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Michigan State Championship. It's the tournament that helps rank the Michigan teams for the purposes of qualifying for the FIRST Championship and it takes place after all of the Michigan District events.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

MSC = Michigan State Championship, which has featured quite a high level of play these past few years.

As for Car Nack's prediction, I will be surprised to see 6 robots on 2 bridges. However, I'd wager that 6 on 3 will occur in qualifications at at least 1/4th of regionals, and fairly regularly at the Michigan State Championship, MAR championship, St. Louis, etc.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Because it takes time to setup and balance 3 robots. If you plan to do a 2-balance and keep the remaining robot scoring, it better be a superstar basket scorer with plenty of available balls. Can any single robot make up 20 points in hoops in the time it takes 3 robots to coordinate a balance? I doubt it.

It's like hanging in 2010: sure in some matches you can score the 2 extra points with soccer balls, but in most matches you won't even have 2 balls available to score in the final seconds.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Man! I guy moves to New England and he forgets his roots.

How could I have forgotten Michigan State Championships?

I'm an idiot.

Thanks,
Joe J.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

The best part about Car Nack is trying really, really hard to prove him wrong. :)

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

If Car Nack is allowing for the 6 robots to be on any combination of the 3 ramps, I think it'll happen at most regionals...

If Car Nack is referring specifically to triple balance vs. triple balance, I still have to disagree. I think that this will be exceptionally rare, but that it will happen. Some elim alliances will prove they can do so... these ones will win and move on, increasing the odds that they'll face a similar alliance. At some point, there'll be a triple balance against a triple balance...

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

so far in my honest opinion Car Nack is 1 for 3 this year.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I'd be disappointed if there was a regional where it never happened. I do think it'll be harder than a lot of people think, but considering the rewards for being able to balance, teams will be crazy to design a robot that can't balance with at least one other.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Well remember, in qualifications, this would be balancing 2 robots on each of the three bridges. But in quals, how often will there be 6 robots playing together that are capable of balancing with another robot?

Then in eliminations, you need to have two alliances that can balance 3 robots on their alliance bridge since there is no reward for the coopertition bridge. Having never seen any of the robots attempt a triple balance in quals because that would be useless, the farthest you can go in selecting for a triple balance alliance is finding robots that can consistently balance with 2 in quals and will all fit on the bridge together. Now have two alliances that have selected for that face each other in eliminations and pull off a triple balance in the same match...with next to no practice together doing it.

Steep odds either way, but I could see it happening at qualifications at Championship, MSC and IRI, otherwise the odds are far too slim.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I am siding with CarNack on this one. After dealing with that bridge in 2001 when ALL of the robots were working together I can tell you that balancing is not that easy using your robot driving back and fourth. In past seasons the greatest things happen in the elimination rounds when all the robots are hand picked for their greatness and ability to work together. This year you will not see anyone trying to balance on the coopertition bridge in elims, and I don't think you will see 3 robots on one bridge successfully. More likely you will see 2 robots somewhat on a bridge, and the third on its side nearby the bridge.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

At first I thought "what a morbid way of putting it". Then I realized it could be worse -- the tipped robot could still be touching the bridge, negating any possible points. :ahh:

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I don't this is true either. looks like 2 bot balances are easier than thought on the competition bridge. Although the balls getting caught underneath is the problem. I think there will be plenty of matches where all 6 teams have trouble shooting balls and will commit to balancing from the onset. Especially when they realize how important the coopertition ranking points are.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

More than a bit pessimistic, this one...

...unless he meant "one single bridge"... :yikes:

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Six robots balanced was already accomplished at Kansas City in week 1, as shown in this post:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...06#post1138406

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Darn, I was looking for a pic/video :p

On a side note, where's 12-2?

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Here is a link to the match at Kansas City with all six bots balanced

http://150.199.24.201/WMSDownloads/r.../match_091.asf

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Video (Match 91): http://www.more.net/content/2012-qualification-matches

Edit: Looks like Zach beat me to it with a more direct link.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I love that the head referee celebrates when all 6 robots go up

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

That's Kansas City for you!

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Just happened again in the quals late today at the Autodesk Oregon Regional. :)

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I wonder if it would be even physically possible to put 6 FRC robots on one bridge. Even piled one on top of another, I think 6 robots would just be too unstable...

On a slightly less hypothetical note, I don't think we can rule out all six robots balanced on 6 bridges ever. There are a lot of matches in an FRC season, and bridge balancing is not all that uncommon, even in weeks one and two. Even last year where (in my opinion) the endgame was much more challenging, four mini-bots did happen a couple of times per regional in eliminations. FRC is too big a place for 6 robots not to happen at least once, in my opinion.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Waterford Finals Match 1 just managed TWO triple balances

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Seen here!

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Thank you; I was watching over the webcast and I'm STILL in awe over all of the Elimination matches I've seen today. Week two has absolutely stunned me with all of the "records" that have been broken. Teams have broken the 100 point barrier, triple balanced on a regular basis, pulled off a double triple balance, and I'm sure there's plenty more to come. I really can't wait to see MSC, and even more excited to see IRI this year

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

A double triple balance in F1-1 at Waterford Districts!
Congrats to teams 67, 2851, 469, 3601, 3098, 573!

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Thanks to 67, 2851, 573, 3098, and 3601 for a great finals and pulling off the first double triple of the season!

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

The crowd went wild when it happened, I'm sooooo glad I was there to see it.

Car Nack appears to be 0-2 is he slipping up?

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

I believe the basketball term is a triple-double...:p

I also think that Car Nack needs a new crystal ball.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

Actually upon further review of the OP.

If a is referring to a single bridge I agree with Car Nack on this one.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 12-3
 

A triple double is double digits in three stats. Double triple would be what he was going for.