Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

Are Q&A's legal and binding or does it have to be in the rules to make it official?

It seems to me that this is a big deal because Update 4 talks about transitions to/from barriers and bridges being exceptional states.

If your robot is transitioning between one of these is it legal to have bits of the robot extend below the plane defined by the tires?

I would think that this rule should involve actual bumper zone violations not theoretical ones.

Violations occur if and only if you extend something (or somethings -- appendage rules do not apply) below your robot and it moves your robot such that your bumpers are outside the bumper zone (for the surface you are actually on not a theoretical surface you may be placed on).

The barrier/floor transition is a special case. While in contact with the barrier, tilts and such may move your bumpers outside the zone. I think that there is a modified bumper zone (in WORLD Coords, not robot coords) that can be defined near the bumper to make this work.

The bridge/floor should be a case where the bumper zone should be modified to be such that your bumpers must not leave a fixed zone defined by the floor and a bridge coords zone defined by the surface of the bridge.

Joe J.

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

Yes. The Q&A is an extension set of the manual. Often the updates are issued to ensure the manual is up to date in regards to any rule changes that may come from the Q&A system.

I agree with your proposed definition of the bumper rules as well. I think they are trying to oversimplify this particular case, and therefore severely limiting teams.

I was expecting to see many mechanisms this year designed to cross the center barrier. Simple gurneys, or "skis" that would drop down and lift the front wheels over the barrier. As per that Q&A answer, and through Paul's analysis (which I agree with) this looks like an impossibility.

Chris brings up the same question I had. What if the extension coming down can collapse upon the weight of the robot. Or even better, what if upon realizing the robot was now sitting on a flat surface, it automatically retracted said extension? Meaning, as soon as the robot was lowered and made contact with a flat floor, it retracted its extension to be in compliance with the bumper rules? I agree this may be lawyering, but I'm really disappointed by that Q&A answer.

-Brando

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

Joe,
The Q&A is only answered by the GDC and no one else. The answers reflect a consensus of the GDC. The Team Updates are in effect changes, additions or modifications of the manual(s) also coming from the GDC and sometimes prompted by input from others or from the Q&A. Team updates in effect will prompt revisions in the manual at some future date. Q&A are usually answers to directed questions that are answered in relation to the current rules as reflected in the manual/team updates. If team makes a design decision based on a Q&A, I expect them to have the documentation to show. Not every volunteer/ref/FTA/inspector will have access to or a hard copy of the Q&A.

In respect to the bumper in the last team update, please note that the bumper zone is referenced to the robot sitting on a flat surface when determining the bumper zone. Additionally, the bumper zone is not checked when a robot is traversing the barrier or the bridges per the latest team update.

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

So, to be clear, the view of the Collected Wisdom is what?

Specifically, do we have to pretend that someone may freeze time and place our robot on a flat floor and if our bumper is outside the bumper zone wrt that flat floor, we are in violation of the rules at that moment in time?

OR...

Are we exempt from that rule when in transitions to/from the barrier?
Are we exempt from that rule when in transitions to/from a bridge?

AND...

For the record, I think that FIRST should go to the "bumpers must stay inside this zone" rule define the zone in real world (not robot) coords (perhaps with a relative to a moving field element if robots have to drive over it, e.g. a bridge) and the penalize teams for actual violations not potential violations.

Joe J.

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

Joe,
The Update in question..."The carpet, the Bridge surfaces, and Keys are considered the flat floors – and thus are the reference planes for the Bumper Zone requirements. A Robot in a transitory state of crossing onto/off of a Bridge or Barrier is not considered to be on a flat floor."
When in a transitory state (only as listed) the robot by definition is not on a flat floor so the bumper zone cannot be determined, is what I believe the update is stating. During inspections we will be checking the bumper zone height when the robot is flat on the floor. As in the past, this will require teams to mount their bumpers during inspection. There may be robot designs that violate this rule.

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

How does this interpretation jive with this other Q&A Quote?

It looks like I can drop something more than 0 to 3 inches as long as it is into the space below the plane of the floor that the robot is resting on at the time.

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

if i have two appendages (powered by two seperate mechanism) that meet all the rules with a string tied between them does that count as one or two appendages? please post a response quickly thanks
:eek: :confused: :eek: :confused: :eek:

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

According to a Q & A response I received:


Q. In a prior answer it was stated that an appendage can fork outside the frame perimeter yielding a Y shaped appendage. Can an appendage be attached to the frame at 2 points and terminate in 2 points as long as they are joined by a cross member, yielding a single H shaped appendage?

FRC0063

A. Yes, but the contiguous part of the appendage must be outside the Frame Perimeter.

So yes, you can have an appendage with multiple "points" as long as they are "mechanically connected" and that "mechanical connection" also extends outside of the frame. So....that roller with multiple pieces of surgical tubing on it would have to be inside the frame perimeter at the start of a match and then extended once the match starts.

Re: Two extensions under 14" boundaries
 

thanks i guess i missed that answer i couldnt find it but that helps a ton hope to have a great competition!
:D