THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

If you are wondering about the 2nd answer choice, please read this...

:yikes: Do you know about the rule where humans can throw the ball over the wall in the last 30 seconds of a match?:yikes:

Here was a question asked in the Q&A about this (In Short):

I people were to make full court shots, would it count?

::rtm:: Here is the GDC's answer.......:D




LOOK it UP if you don't BELIEVE ME!!!:cool:

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

Looks like its time to kidnap some varsity basketball players...

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

We, Team 3490, already have one!!!:D

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

How about

"teams will rarely score with their HP in the last 30 sec so it doesn't matter"

Look how many HP's scored in 2006 and that was a bigger target and it wasn't parallel to the floor...

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

You could have a point there, but this season we are playing with regulation size 4 Basketballs and standard basketball rims....

If alliances can find people who can play basketball let alone shoot less-than-a-pound foam balls well, alliances could find success......

But let's not forget your point, for ANYTHING could happen this year......

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

It will be fun watching the crowd's reaction when that ball goes through once in a dozen matches.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

I am thinking that we might look for a team handball player, quarterback or a javelin thrower instead. :)

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

I like this because it allows alliances to have the robots ditch the baskets and go for the higher worth bridge points during the final 30 seconds. Rather than fighting over those last points to attempt to tip the balance, the robots would race to the bridges and have the humans attempt to tip the balance.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

You are not going to be taking "basketball" type shots over 57 ft you will be throwing the balls over hand like a football or a javelin like the previous person mentioned. You will be lucky to see 1 ball go in per regional, thats qualifying and elimination matches.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

What does s/he think with practicing these shots? Those I've talked to say there are so many differences from actual basketball (ball size and density, etc) that it's less than helpful. This was also the case in 2006 and even 2009. If you can make them, more power to you. For the rest of us, I'm willing to bet that most big end game climaxes will come from (triple) robot balancing.

Edit: Mathking and Eric, good point. This actually seems more realistic (albeit as far as this goes)

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

Why do you say that throwing the balls over the alliance wall is cheating?

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

If each inbounder had 2 balls, and you had a miraculous human player/shooter person that always landed the balls in the top hoop, then you could gain your alliance up to 18 points of extra shots.

That would be pretty useful. :)

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

I used to play basketball with him during our freshman year, and I would remember us attempting to make 1/2 or even 3/4 court shots. I of course couldn't make it, for I wasn't good with throwing with one hand, but I am sure he did...

But even with that, I would be so ready to hear the teams go "OOOOOHHHHH" over the triple robot balances!!!!!:D :D :D

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

This is gonna be interesting... Good thing we have a basketball player.:cool:

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

I think there will be more than one or two made shots per regional, though that is dependent on how many shots humans take. One thing I think is that some teams with someone capable of making shots will commit a basic strategy error, and "save" balls for the human player that might otherwise get to a robot and shot with far more accuracy.

I am also amending my list to include soccer goal keepers. Who actually practice throwing (rather than shooting) a round ball a long distance. Mechanically, you will want a release point close to or above the wall. Which means that a tall basketball player will probably have an advantage.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

My thoughts on the GDC making that decision were PRETTY ambivalent....

My fun part of my brain said:

"YESS, humans can SCORE, more points for US!!!!"

My moral part of my brain said:

"Wouldn't this be degrading the amazing spirit and intention of FIRST, where people could build ROBOTS to do people's work, thus learning a technology and engineering mentality students can use in the future to assist the human race?"

I know it is very exciting to win, but what would teams learn if people in the future would have to create robots that would require human assistance?

Oh, wait, I might have just made another point there....:o

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I'm not going to be surprised if we don't see a bounce shot into a low goal this season. Technically the 2006 low goals were harder to hit because you had to get the ball to go the length of the field and then roll up the ramp. If you threw too hard it would bounce of the top of the goal, too soft and it wouldn't have enough to roll up the ramp.

Never say never!

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

How will balls thrown after or right at the end of a match be handled? Scores aren't calculated until 5 seconds after the end of match so there's a possibility of a thrown ball sneaking in to the final score
Robots get disabled at the very second of the end of a match... inbounders don't.

Obviously it appears it won't have much effect considering most agree not many balls will be scored, but still. It only takes one match for this to happen and it decide a match for it to matter.
Penalty for throwing balls onto the field after the end of match buzzer? Tough judgement call.
I don't know, what do you guys think?

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

It was also a penalty.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

This Q&A answer wasn't some magical surprise, it was explicitly allowed under rule G32 since Kickoff.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

Not in the corner goal. I don't recall any human player scoring in the top goal in 2006. Scoring in the corner wasn't rare, but uncommon to see.

By the way: I love how skewed the survey question is...... You could just say yes or no to not show as much survey bias.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

Tyler you need to learn to read :P they give the rule right after they say "it was also a penalty"

But it being a penalty in 2006 was really here nor there as my point is still valid, HPs aren't going to score that often if at all.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

G32 didn't clear up the question posted on the Q&A. It might have been true that someone would question being able to do a robots work....

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I used to play keeper... actuallly now that you mention it and i think back, it would be pretty easy to be deadly with accuracy...

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I get the feeling there aren't many basketball fans among us. 57ft is a shot from 10ft behind the half court line. When NBA players make shots like that they tend to miss.

Recruiting a basketball player might not be a great idea either. A friend of mine plays for my college's women's team. When we were shooting together she missed quite a few shots she would normally make. Using a men's ball with slightly different weight characteristics threw off her shot significantly. Now imagine the effect of switching to poof balls.

I'd be surprised if human player shots decide more than one game this season.

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You weren't around for 2004, so pardon me while I drag this thread off track for a post or so. Back in 2004, robots could NOT score small balls, each worth 5 points (10 points if you were able to snag one of those four special 10-point balls before some speed demon got to them and knocked them off their pedestals autonomously), into any of the 4 goals. It wasn't that you couldn't build a robot to do it, it was that there was something like a 10-point penalty per ball. The Human Player had to make every single point inside those goals, by taking balls fed to them by the robots and throwing them into the goal. The robots could then double it by placing a large ball on top of the goal, or go for 50 points by hanging on the bar, or both.

Now, to really address what you're saying: I'm not entirely certain that you understand the spirit and intention of FIRST. The full name of FIRST is "United States Foundation for Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology". (They've sort of ignored the "United States Foundation" part for many years now, but it is still part of the full legal name, as far as I know.) That name gives what the intent of the organization is: inspire and recognize science and technology. Nowhere in any FIRST mission or vision statement is "learning" mentioned. Does it happen? You bet it does. But it's a byproduct of the inspiration. What about building? That's in there, I'll give you that. Building skills, not robots!

FRC is a robotics competition. FIRST is not a robotics competition. FIRST chooses to use robots as a vehicle to accomplish the inspiration. To that end, they have 4 robotics competitions at different levels. If they thought that birdhouses, factory trips, or building a better mousetrap was the best way to accomplish their mission, they'd be doing that instead. The robots are highly effective at the mission, though, so they have stayed the primary vehicle FIRST uses.

I could go on, but I think that at this point if anything is unclear, a PM would work better.

P.S.: A few more human-robot interaction games of the past: In 2003, the HPs were on the field before the robots ran autonomous. In the '90s, HPs loaded the robots directly--there was at least one DQ for the HP "grabbing the robot" (though there is some doubt as to whether that actually happened). In 2005, humans ran out to load the robots, or the robots could grab from an autoloader. In 2007, humans could score on the rack in the middle of the field. I could add in that humans have been working with the robots since 1992, controlling them... but that takes it away from the HP and into the driver.

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

IMHO, none of those made shots will be a game changer. What will be a game changer is what the GDC decides to do at Champioship with the point values related to ramp balancing. Any change from what was stated in the original point values will affect some teams positively, and others negatively, compared to their performance at the Regionals. :) :)

Re: THE MOST ANTICIPATED ANSWER THIS SEASON!!!!!!
 

I expect at least one match will be decided by such a Hail Mary shot. The final moon rock scored by a person in the last few seconds of the final match of the 2009 Boilermaker Regional was a game changer.