Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

968 and 254 probably would say that, with the other attributes of my teams robot this year we determined it wasn't necessary.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

We made a fixed shooter in Aim High.

We're making a fixed shooter this year.


Of course, we're also making another unicorn drive.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

I think that whether or not a turret is a good idea depends entirely on what kind of drive train you have. There are enough protected zones in this game that drivetrain aiming (under computer control/assist) will be every bit as reliable as turret aiming (under computer control/assist) IF your drivetrain is (or at least can be) as maneuverable as a turret.

Anyone relying solely on human aim and/or dead reckoning will not be that effective, methinks.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

There's not all that much about this game that requires a turret. We are going for two very specific shots this year.

Keep in mind, in Aim High, there was a large obstacle in front of the goal, and the goal was in a completely different orientation. I mean, the last time I used Aim High as rationale to make design decisions, we ended up with a turreted shooter in 2009, a clearly suboptimal design.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

We're going for one very specific shot. And we're taking it from a spot where we can't be touched. Granted we'll have the flexibility to launch 'em from anywhere (and make 'em... totally), but we're focusing on those 3 pts everytime, and if no one can touch you, why turret?

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

That sounds familiar...

Baba Ghanoush was an awesome robot, but wow was she awful at Lunacy!

We're hoping for that one specific shot (I assume that you guys, being as smart as we guys are, are thinking of the same shot) -- but we're also designing for the possibility that what we hope to accomplish and what we can't accomplish vis-a-vis aimed shots at various ranges might well be different things!

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

Aren,
When I re-read what I wrote, I didnt add the part of an '06 team who had a turret explain why they would NOT do it this year.
There are several responses of those who said they would do that, but not really explain why, other than the key.

I knew that someone would bring up 254/968. I'll see what Cory folks think.
They had a fixed shooter for which I am very well aware of playing with both of them on Newton at CMP.
I never thought their auto mode shooting Poof Balls were anything spectacular and sometimes they missed quite a bit of shots since it was done purely on aiming the robot.
However, their robot was advantageous due to the fact that they could plant their robot right beneath the goal and fire straight above them. Shots that were too hard, bounced right out, back into their hopper, and straight into the goal again. Yet, they could be pushed from the side, causing them to miss again.
Look at teams 25, 111, 217, 296 and the many others that had turrets. From anywhere near the vicinity, they could lock and load, eliminating the need for the driver to do any aiming at all. 25's ability to BOTH lock and load, and not be pushed around by locking their drivetrain made them highly successful, including overcoming the fact that they could ONLY human load to fill their hopper.
I wanted to reiterate what Karthik has always encouraged teams to do......design and build within your capabilities and expertise. Back in 2006, we had a fixed shooter for that very reason.
If teams are doing that for that specific reason, props to them as well.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

Oh we had one in 2006, and i quite enjoyed it, i just pointed them out to be annoying :p

My thoughts on this game mainly differ on the basis of having some protected places to shoot from harassment free, l think this makes the lack of a turret a much more non limiting decision.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

The thing to remember is that while we have protected areas this year, the shots are MUCH harder to make than in 2006 since the target is both smaller and mounted horizontally. From a guidance standpoint, the fact that the target isn't on the same plane as the goal (like 2006) makes the vision problem much harder because you have considerable parallax, depending on where you are shooting from.

I think they added the key precisely because scoring would turn into a game of chance for most teams without both a precision shooter and a precision guidance system. Having a straight shot, in line with the vision targets, makes it easier.

Knowing that, there's plenty of opportunity for defense bots to try and keep you out of the key. Yes, its risky, but if you're a consistent scorer, most teams will assume its better to risk a handful of penalties than let a good scorer nail unobstructed 3-pointers for 2 minutes!

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

We're trying for a turret, but the design is not yet complete. Our drive train, a basic 6-wheel with gearing for about 13 fps max, will probably not allow for precision aiming of the whole robot, even under computer control. But we attempt the turret with the fallback plan that if it doesn't work well, as long as we can lock it down and still shoot, then we aim with the drive wheels.

We spend most of our lives in Plan B... 8-)

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

:cool: Haha love you guys! :)

While this is true, this is the first shooting year with a safe zone aka the key. Shooting without an plan for aiming is extremely risky. You only have 3 shots and you can't waste 1 or 2 until your driver has the shot even if he is that good. Our plan is to make all of our shots from the key and use our robot base to auto aim at a really slow speed. We'll see how this works but a turret adds more complexity to our design when we already can aim our robot.

Good luck!

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

That is a risky strategy.

Every incidental contact that occurs when the scoring robot is touching their key is worth exactly the same in foul points to the scoring robot as actually sinking that shot in the high goal.

Even worse: try to play defense on said robot while they manage to just get their corner wheel over the key and bam!, technical foul and 9 pts to scoring robot's alliance. That little accident just gave the offense's alliance just as much points as if they actually shot three balls with 100% accuracy into the high goal.

For these reasons, I can easily see a continued scrub with a defense bot near the key racking up 2-3x more points for the offense's alliance in fouls than they probably could have scored on their own.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

100% agree, this year the defense is WAY too risky. What is even worse is that most efforts to stop a robot from scoring ends in a penalty and them getting there anyway.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

Using a turret seems pretty mandatory for determined shooters, however I agree it all depends on how efficiently your team can develop the shooter and not spend the whole season trying to build it.

Re: Poll: Turrets for Rebound Rumble
 

We're doing it, 'cause why not?

I can see how many top teams will be fine in their choice not to however.

The key is a nice place to shoot from in that regard.