Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

I'm still not clear on the whole rule thing about that...but I kinda think you have a good approach, we might plan on making our shooter sit a bit lower, mainly to help with the CG thing. It looks like it won't lose us much.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

Not so much. If you do this intentionally exploiting G44's exception for G28, it's 9 points for them when you get a technical foul under G45.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

I think the intent of the rule is pretty clear, as stated in [G28]

Emphasis mine. The GDC seems to have thought of this eventuality and even made a rule for it. As for [G45]/[G44]

Emphasis mine.

Our strategy is shooting, they are interfering with our strategy, and they are liable for the penalty if they intrude upon the key. If our strategy was to bait them into the key then sting them with a penalty, that would be exploiting the exception as described in [G44]. However, that is not it.

Is my analysis sound?

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

I'm not sure if your first assertion was questioning G45's applicability to G28, but if it was:
If not, I like the "strategy" distinction. If the motion of contact itself (moving to the front of the key) was part of your original shooting strategy, I'd agree with you. But if you're implying that you'd deliberately bump them to earn the foul rather than to physically shoot, I'd contest that this is a separate (if affiliated) strategy. I won't claim to red card you for it, but you may want to seek further clarification. I'll also point out tangentially, that the current litmus test for technical fouling with regards to intentionality is essentially just repetition.

Good thought.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

Sorry to continue to derail this thread.

My strategy is to have a shot that is not blocked. In order to accomplish this, I'm going to shove any robots out of my way until the shot is clear. If, during my shoving, an oppenent is in the key, then that is a three point penalty on them. I don't intend to give them penalties, but I do intend to guarantee an unblocked shot.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

We have the same sentiment.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

No, I don't think so. The contact would not be "purposeful" or "consequential" since you bumped them before or after you launched a ball. Think of the common-sense intention of the rule - seems to be to keep them from interfering with your shooting. Turning the rule into something more just because the syntax is not perfect is not generally a good strategy in my humble opinion.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

Team 4063 here is at 40" from the ground to the tip of our launcher. its at a 112 degree angle and makes two points everytime so far.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

However, we did bump them while in the process of shooting. The point of our robot is to get balls into the baskets, not to get the other teams penalties. If they insist on stopping us from our strategy (we are not forcing them to be in the key; they drove there willingly), we have no other choice than to foul them. Why would the GDC include the exception if it was not meant to be used?

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

I would at least run this by the GDC and see what they say. It is not obvious to me that initiating contact with a bot that is near your key (to cause a penalty) is in the spirit of the rules. It seems a tortured interpretation of the rules. What if the other bot tries to retreat? Are you going to chase them?

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

The whole point is to make them retreat. The key is a protected area with the intent being to allow for relatively uninhibited offense. If a team drives on or near your key, it is entirely your right to make contact with them to cause them to get a foul. The intent is that they are to enter that area at their own peril, and that the foul resulting is their own fault regardless of who initiates contact. G<45> was initiated to keep teams from exploiting G<28>'s exemption not to eliminate it entirely.

This is not exploitation of the rules; it is merely enforcement of them.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

Ditto for us (more like 26 probably). It works out for blocking because you want to shoot at something close to 60 degrees anyway, which puts the shot to 60 inches above the ground within 6 inches of your bumper, and we figured no one would want to get that close (if they do, we're in the key and have every right to touch them when wrestling for position). It keeps the CG low, ball storage smaller (exactly 3 balls), the robot lighter, and things a bit simpler.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

The analogy from basketball is kinda like offensive charging, only "with intent".

Our regional judge said if you are "playing the game" which is to say, attempting to retrieve and score baskets, then no technical. So there is the human judgement factor. Certainly if you have no ball to shoot, and no ball nearby to retrieve, just hitting the other guy to get a 3 point foul is not wise. You leave too much room for the judge to nail you with the technical.

Talk to your regional head judge and get their direct feedback, especially after they get their final directions from HQ. And buy them coffee the morning of your event.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

And their whole point might be to distract your driver into keeping you moving. A nice proximity sensor and/or big red driver station button that puts the defensive robot into auto-reverse might be all it takes to avoid fouls.

Re: Turret/Tower Height
 

Wow - that is reading a lot into the rules! Who cares if they are in the key or not? The common sense purpose is so they do not bump their opponent's bot while the opponent is shooting. The key is a place where we can take your time, aim our shooter and try to score w/o being bumped. How on earth can we expect a referee to enforce the strategy you guys are advocating? It would result in chaos.

Some are missing the whole point - teams do not "enforce the rules", teams play by them. The referees "enforce the rules" and (in my humble opinion) they will be reasonable and apply common sense. If the intent were for the opponents robot not to enter the key area, just doing so would be a penalty and it is not (that I can find).