Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Our team is going with a shooter. It is much more risky than a dumper, but with a practice robot and some excellent programmers, I hope we can pull it off. I would recommend that any team that has yet to decide should concentrate on having a consistent dumper rather than a shooter that might never work.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Can you really do that? I didn't think you could touch the fender. I thought it was a foul.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Not sure which message you are commenting on. But the rule [G10] is that you can't sit on or push off of (or "react against") the top of the fender.

You can touch the sides of the fender.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

CHeck the rules. Find one that concerns you. And ask back here.

As I have been learning lately, if someone can't quote you a rule number, ignore the heck out of them. If they can, don't believe them till you look it up.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Voting is dangerous. Votes mean an option is chosen because it is popular, not because it is right. Votes are intrinsically subjective. Votes generate divisiveness and hard feelings. This is an engineering challenge. If one system can be shown to be superior to the other, given your team's constraints, then it is the better system for your team.
There will be excellent shooters. There will be excellent dumpers. There will be dozens of opportunities for "I told you so"s. It's up to your team to not fall into that trap - whatever you decide as a team, is the team's decision. Believe it or not, these moments are pivotal in a team's identity and cohesiveness. Attack the problem as a united front, and reap the success on the playing field.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

And who gets to decide this. Do we arm wrestle for it? Do the mentors decide? No mater what method you choose your objections in voting also apply...

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

There are lots of ways - decision making matrix, weighted values table, list pros v cons - there are a litany of ways to make a scientific decision based on process rather than emotion.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Not really. Ever hear of a weighted objective matrix? If you haven't, I'll explain below.

Voting should only be used if two designs come out the same or extremely close to the same on a weighted objective matrix.

The way this sort of matrix works is the you have a number of requirements or goals, each with a weighting of how important it is. For example, rules compliance would get a 5 on a scale of 1-5, while "cool" gets maybe a 1 (if it's even considered). Each design is evaluated against the same set of requirements and given a score (on a scale of 1-5 or 1-10) on how well it meets that requirement. High score wins. Very close high scores get sent to a more detailed matrix for further evaluation, and the process repeats.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

We used a weighted decision matrix. But I am staring, currently, at 104 votes, 94 of which are for shooters. So they seem to be the really popular choice.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Very few of the voters are on your team. Just because shooters are popular with the CD community, which tends to skew toward the more proficient, does not mean that's the best choice for your team this year.

Mecanum wheels tend to be rather popular among the larger FRC community, but I don't expect to see any on 2791's machine any time soon.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

One important thing that Mr.Bill taught me was that every team needs one person with the authority to make the final decision when there is a dispute to avoid long delay's.

His two rules are:

Putaside - if your design or idea isn't you need to put it aside and move on.

Golden Rule - It's his gold so he rules!

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

We tested them on our off season.
They won't be on our robot any time soon either.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Exactly. Another thing to consider is WHO is voting. The "wow factor" of a turreted shooter seems cooler, but how accurately will most teams be when shooting, especially farther away from the baskets? I'm not saying people won't be aiming well, but which is more accurate: A shooter from the key, or a dumper right in front of the basket?

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

Let's not turn this into yet another mecanum thread. The point is taken -- people have different opinions on solutions, and some of those people are likely more right than others... and some of those answers will be different for different teams, based on many, many factors.

Re: Shooter or Dumper?
 

The thread seems to have veered into more team politics than actual advantages or disadvantages of shooters/dumpers.