Chief Delphi - 179 Swamp Teasers

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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- Robot Showcase (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58)

- - 179 Swamp Teasers (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101676)

Jetweb

01-02-2012 00:35

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by DampRobot (Post 1117613)

I find it a little sad to see such an established team go for something like this. This is obviously a superiorly designed, engineered and machined robot, just look at that sheet metal on the ramp.

That said, I just can't comprehend why a team with this much potential chose to just do the bridge. Being able to gain only 10 points in qualification and no more just doesn't make sense to me, even with playing defense.

I did expect more than a few rookie teams to just concentrate on balancing. But a team of this caliber? I really feel like their engineering expertise would have been better put to use designing even a dumper. A good dumper could virtually guarantee getting 6-12 points per match, plus ten for balancing. That's not including autonomous.

With this design, it is true that 10 points per match can be expected, and that the robot would a boon in eliminations. But why would a robot that can't even play feeder be selected for elims?

179, awesome robot, but I just don't understand why you decided to give up on every aspect of the game but balancing.

Dont worry, when you see the completed robot you will not be disappointed. it can do way more than balance the bridge (not everything is in the pictures)

Nuttyman54

01-02-2012 00:38

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1117618)

They can score as well.

What about 111 in 2001 (I think that was the year)? Top caliber team was a bridge ramp robot, and oh yeah, they won championships!

Wildstang was a championship finalist in 2001, they've won in 2003, 2009 and 2011. The 2001 champions were 71, 365, 294, 279 and 125

It's still one of my all-time favorite robots though

Akash Rastogi

01-02-2012 00:39

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

With 179 being Swamp Thing, I find this very fitting in response to DampRobot

rocknthehawk

01-02-2012 00:39

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by DampRobot (Post 1117613)

179, awesome robot, but I just don't understand why you decided to give up on every aspect of the game but balancing.

I think you may have skimmed the pictures and posted with out reading the thread.

Absolutely in love with the design.

JB987

01-02-2012 00:40

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

What happens when one partner crosses to the farthest endpoint of the bridge and your second partner is possibly just making contact with the bottom of your ramp? What is to keep the bridge from rotating such that the top and bottom of your channel are now in contact with top and bottom of the bridge (ie. grasping)?

Lil' Lavery

01-02-2012 00:40

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1117618)

They can score as well.

What about 111 in 2001 (I think that was the year)? Top caliber team was a bridge ramp robot, and oh yeah, they won championships!

As unfounded as the post you're referring to is, I do feel like the story should be set straight here about 111. First off, Wildstang didn't win championship in 2001. They won in 2003, 2009, and 2011. The alliance of 71, 294, 125, 365, and 279 won in 2001.

But the 2001 game is entirely different from 2012. The game was played 4v0 with several very distinct "tasks" that took place in the game. That led to many teams "specializing" in one task or another (balancing the bridge, moving goals, capping goals, traversing under the bar, etc). Wildstang was a bridge specialist, but that game called for bridge specialists.

And for what it's worth, Wildstang could also cross the bridge quickly and efficiently and could "tip" the bridge back and forth from the ground without deploying their ramp. They were useful for more than just their ramp.

XaulZan11

01-02-2012 00:41

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by DampRobot (Post 1117613)

That said, I just can't comprehend why a team with this much potential chose to just do the bridge. Being able to gain only 10 points in qualification and no more just doesn't make sense to me, even with playing defense.

148 did pretty well in 2008 building just a box on wheels (although a very very special box on wheels) and 469 did pretty well in 2010 with a strategy that wasn't good for seeding well.

Great job 179 for building a different robot and sharing it so early in the season. I just hope we don't see any copy cats.

Jared Russell

01-02-2012 00:45

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB987 (Post 1117623)

It looks like the top and bottom of the channel are sufficiently spaced such that there is no way the bridge can contact both simultaneously within the possible bridge rotation.

Nuttyman54

01-02-2012 00:47

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1117624)

But the 2001 game is entirely different from 2012. The game was played 4v0 with several very distinct "tasks" that took place in the game. That led to many teams "specializing" in one task or another (balancing the bridge, moving goals, capping goals, traversing under the bar, etc). Wildstang was a bridge specialist, but that game called for bridge specialists.

And for what it's worth, Wildstang could also cross the bridge quickly and efficiently and could "tip" the bridge back and forth from the ground without deploying their ramp. They were useful for more than just their ramp.

To tag along on this, I believe this was the era before the rules stated that ALL attachments had to cumulatively be under the weight limit. The rules back then stated that any given starting configuration had to be under the weight limit, but the sum total of all the different attachments could be greater than the weight limit. Wildstang often removed their ramp ability to use an attachment which allowed them to control the mobile goals well. You can see them do this in the 710 point match at Midwest (video is on their website).

That being said, the Swampthing robot is also much more than just a ramp. they've cleverly designed a system that can balance on the bridge while taking up almost no space, and significantly reduces the time their partners need to balance. I think it will be a very impressive robot to see in action. Not to mention they can score balls, and will have VERY good drivers by the time competitions roll around. Kudos to you guys for taking the path less traveled, I will be following this robot very closely!

DampRobot

01-02-2012 00:50

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Sorry if I've offended anyone on 179. As I said, that robot is a really cool piece of engineering.

Looking at the pics, I see how a feeder could be integrated into the ramp, possibly using those sprockets in the bottom of the ramp. A feeder/balancer bot makes a lot more sense than a purely balancer. That is what could make this a great robot. Assuming 179 pulls this off (and I have no doubt they can, with this much time left in the season), they would be an extremely competitive robot. I bet many teams would pick them first, even over a great shooter.

Having a feeder and a ramp is what would make 179 truly competitive. I still believe that having just a ramp would not make a lot of sense.

Grim Tuesday

01-02-2012 01:05

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by DampRobot (Post 1117633)

What they have is far more than a ramp. They have a guaranteed 20 points per match in qualifications, and a very likely 40 in eliminations. They probably won't seed first, but whichever team picks them will win the regional.

Only at the very high levels do you see robots that can guarantee 20 to 40 points per match. This robot is utterly fantastic, and the engineering and thought that went into it looks amazing. I wish I had thought of it, but hats off to 179!

Andrew Schreiber

01-02-2012 01:14

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday (Post 1117643)

You'd be surprised, history has shown that the average team is pretty bad at scoring. 20 points may be a decent amount to swing many matches. For example, a hang (2 pts) in 2010 would swing 29% of matches. A suspension and a hang would have changed 72%. (source: http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/06/2010-scoring-analysis/)

Grim Tuesday

01-02-2012 01:19

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1117648)

My point exactly:

Quote:

"Only at the very high levels do you see robots that can guarantee 20 to 40 points per match. This robot is utterly fantastic, and the engineering and thought that went into it looks amazing. I wish I had thought of it, but hats off to 179!"

Given the amount that 20 points is this year, I think these guys pretty much have a lock on the regional level, and can really only be competed with by the very high powerhouse level teams in scoring.

Cory	01-02-2012 01:19

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday (Post 1117643)

Nothing is guaranteed. The average regional match would probably feature teams that have trouble climbing the ramp.

Not to take anything away from 179, but everyone on Chief always freaks out and starts exclaiming "EINSTEIN!!!!" as soon as they see the first out of the box/good robot posted. It's never that simple.

rcmolloy

01-02-2012 01:30

Re: 179 Swamp Teasers

Bunch of us here were impressed with what you guys are offering this year. However, I do agree with what Cory said about the "EINSTEIN" comments. Remember, 469 did have a great plan in 2010 with their ball redirector AS WELL AS a very functional kicker and roller. Right now, 179 is in the best place to be successful.

Congrats guys, we will definitely be seeing you at Champs.

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