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sretter 10-02-2012 16:11
Legal Bumpers?
 
Hi everyone,
After checking the bumper rules and everything we wanted to make sure that our bumpers are 100% legal.
The bumpers and frame are similar to this picture(forgive me for my poor graphic skills):
http://up353.siz.co.il/up2/mkzvllzthdmg.png

Black line is frame and red line is bumper and the length and width are shorter than the maximum...
Thanks!

nitneylion452 10-02-2012 16:17
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
I'm not sure. I need some clarification before I can tell you anything.

Are the bumpers 8" from the corner of the frame, or 8" total on the front and back? They must be 8" long from the corner of the frame inward to be legal, i.e. you must have ~11.25" of bumper on the front on either side.

Brandon Zalinsky 10-02-2012 16:27
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitneylion452 (Post 1123875)
I'm not sure. I need some clarification before I can tell you anything.

Are the bumpers 8" from the corner of the frame, or 8" total on the front and back? They must be 8" long from the corner of the frame inward to be legal, i.e. you must have ~11.25" of bumper on the front on either side.
Unless, of course, they have it set up so that their side bumpers cover the additional ~3 inches on both the front and back.

Jon Stratis 10-02-2012 16:34
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak-Bait (Post 1123880)
Unless, of course, they have it set up so that their side bumpers cover the additional ~3 inches on both the front and back.
No, you bumpers must cover 8" or more on each side of every exterior vertex - that's measured from the vertex of the frame perimeter, so you have to have 8" of frame covered. Your side bumpers cannot count towards any of that 8".

nitneylion452 10-02-2012 16:36
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak-Bait (Post 1123880)
Unless, of course, they have it set up so that their side bumpers cover the additional ~3 inches on both the front and back.
My point remains valid. There must be 8" of bumper attached from the corner to another point inward of the frame.

[R27]

Quote:
Robots are required to use Bumpers to protect all exterior vertices of the Frame Perimeter. For adequate protection, at least 8 in. of Bumper must be placed on each side of each exterior vertex

GaryVoshol 10-02-2012 17:07
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
It appears from your drawing that the ends of the "U" of your frame are 8 inches wide. If so, you will be OK.

To put it simply, at every exterior corner of your robot, the frame must be protected by the Bumper for 8" on both sides of the corner.

Is there a reason that you don't have a bumper all the way across the back of your robot? It's free weight, and it will help protect you. But if there's some strategic reason for leaving the gap, you are allowed to do so as long as you comply with the 8" rule at every corner.

sretter 10-02-2012 18:59
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 1123900)
It appears from your drawing that the ends of the "U" of your frame are 8 inches wide. If so, you will be OK.

To put it simply, at every exterior corner of your robot, the frame must be protected by the Bumper for 8" on both sides of the corner.

Is there a reason that you don't have a bumper all the way across the back of your robot? It's free weight, and it will help protect you. But if there's some strategic reason for leaving the gap, you are allowed to do so as long as you comply with the 8" rule at every corner.
Thanks!(and yes it's 8 inches from the corner)
and about the gap in the back we want to keep open a possibility to pick up ball from there.

Jim Schaddelee 10-02-2012 21:28
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Just to be clear it is NOT measured from the end of the pool noodle .I read a e-mail today from a top robot inspector in FIRST that clearly stated bumpers are measure by the wood.

"The GDC has responded in the Q&A on this question but it is consistent with the rules as written. The bumper length is that which is defined by the backing board. So the 3/4 plywood has to be 8" min on either side of any exterior vertices. The soft parts that make up a corner are part of the bumper system but are not backed up by frame structure. With wrap around bumpers, the 3/4" plywood must satisfy the rule. as shown in the rules. "

I hope this helps. We are currently making the needed changes.

DonRotolo 10-02-2012 22:13
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Also pay attention to how you fasten those C-shaped bumpers to the frame. There are rules on that, too.

wilhitern1 11-02-2012 07:40
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonRotolo (Post 1124033)
Also pay attention to how you fasten those C-shaped bumpers to the frame. There are rules on that, too.
DonRotolo,

Could you refer me to the attachment rules that apply to attachment, just so that I don't do something stupid.

tcjinaz 11-02-2012 12:30
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Schaddelee (Post 1124009)
Just to be clear it is NOT measured from the end of the pool noodle .I read a e-mail today from a top robot inspector in FIRST that clearly stated bumpers are measure by the wood.

"The GDC has responded in the Q&A on this question but it is consistent with the rules as written. The bumper length is that which is defined by the backing board. So the 3/4 plywood has to be 8" min on either side of any exterior vertices. The soft parts that make up a corner are part of the bumper system but are not backed up by frame structure. With wrap around bumpers, the 3/4" plywood must satisfy the rule. as shown in the rules. "

I hope this helps. We are currently making the needed changes.

I would buy that if it were a public communication. The Q&A has not been answered yet.

EricH 11-02-2012 13:13
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilhitern1 (Post 1124146)
DonRotolo,

Could you refer me to the attachment rules that apply to attachment, just so that I don't do something stupid.
The attachment stuff has been in the bumper rules all build season.

Particularly read [R28-E] (and the [R28] blue box), [R32], and [R33].



Tim, I'd like to point you to the following Q&A responses:
Quote:
Game - The Robot » Bumper Rules » R27
Q. Does the 8" of bumpers required on each side of vertex include the 3" of the bumper meeting it from the connected side? Or does the bumper need to be 8" of plywood with noodle. In Figure 4-1 it appears that the upper left horizontal bumper is 8", and the vertical is 6" with no plywood on the end.
A. Per Rule [R27], the Bumper must be at least 8 in. Per Rule [R28], the Bumper must be backed by plywood. Thus, the plywood must be 8 in. The figures in Section 4.1.6 are for illustrative purposes only and are not drawn to scale.

Game - The Robot » Bumper Rules » R27
Q. Figure 4-1 shows short segments of bumper on each side of an opening. 4.1.6 says that the minimum length of bumper is 8". But does the 8" include the part of of the bumper that overlaps with a bumper on the adjacent side, or only the part that is backed up by the chassis? A measurement added to Figure 4-1 would be really helpful.
A. The 8 in. specified in Rule [R27] does not include overlapping sections of bumper material found at an exterior vertex.
(emphasis mine)

DonRotolo 11-02-2012 14:02
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Thanks Eric.

tcjinaz 11-02-2012 17:13
Re: Legal Bumpers?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1124297)
The attachment stuff has been in the bumper rules all build season.

Particularly read [R28-E] (and the [R28] blue box), [R32], and [R33].



Tim, I'd like to point you to the following Q&A responses:(emphasis mine)
Thank You. I lost it (two in a row) in the 3 pages of bumper rule questions.

Wish the diagrams in the rules had dimensions etc on them.


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