Chief Delphi - Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

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Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

We are assembling our shooter - it sits on a what looks like a 17" dia gear. In some places this gear gets close to the plate under it. If one got a finger under it or near the gear (on a AndyMark gear motor) that drives the turntable, it could hurt you. So my question is - will a robot inspector likely make us cover this area for safety reasons?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Keith and Joe,
The best answer would be to protect as much of the shooter (or any moving parts) as best you can. Field resetters, judges and refs aren't always robot team members.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Next installment in the Al's Annual Inspection list. Thanks to Wayne for getting it started this year.

Bumpers.
Ok bumpers have been around for a while, they change a little every year but they are here to stay. You must satisfy all the bumper rules, not just selected ones. So here goes...
1. They must be backed by 3/4" thick plywood, 5 inches high. If you are not able to get 3/4" in your country then the nearest metric equivalent is OK. Pine boards and MDF are not allowed.
2. You must have two, vertically stacked 2 1/2" pool noodles. Color is not a consideration but they must not be modified by inserting round bar stock to add weight or shaped in any fashion to allow better functionality for your robot. Exception to this rule below.
3. Bumpers must be covered in strong fabric of red or blue color, closely matching the colors of the First Logo. 1000 denier nylon is recommended. You will need to change colors depending on which alliance you are assigned in any match. This means you either have a method of changing colors on one bumper system or you have two bumpers systems, one blue and one red.
4. You may add a 5" long piece of pool noodle in a vertical orientation to cover the corners of your bumper system. This is to insure that no hard parts of your robot or bumper is capable of contacting another robot or field parts. You may miter the corner pool noodles to accomplish this protection. See Fig 4-6 in the robot manual.
5. Bumpers must attach firmly to the frame of your robot, be able to be easily removed or mounted and all parts of the bumper system must remain inside the critical 2" to 10" above a flat floor. All sections do not need to be at the same height but they all must remain inside the bumper zone when mounted.
6. Bumpers need to have your team number displayed on four sides of your robot. The numbers need to be 4" high, 3/4" stroke and readable from a distance. Team numbers need to be white in color or outlined in white. If you are doing well, you want other teams to know who you are.
7. Small gaps behind the bumper system are allowed due to boltheads, fasteners and welds. However, bumpers only work when backed up by robot structure. So small spaces can be bridged by the bumpers but nothing greater than 8" long. See Fig 4-7 of the robot rules.
8. With this year's game, many teams will design their bumpers to have openings for appendages or ball handlers. That is OK as long as all exterior vertices are covered with a bumper section (backing board) of at least 8" in long on both sides of the vertice.
9. Your bumpers will be weighed separately at inspection so remove them but bring them with your robot to the weigh and size station. One complete set of bumpers must weigh less than 20 lbs. Both sets need to be weighed if you have a red and blue set.
10. Securely fastened to the robot frame means threaded fasteners, cleavis pin attachment or some other rigid form of attachment. Zip ties, duct tape, rubber bands or velcro do not meet the requirement of secure fastening.
There are several questions about bumpers on the Q&A forum, I suggest you search 'bumpers' on the forum and read them. You can find it here...
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Questions.php

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireties (Post 1128633)

For that I would definitely cover it with some sort of shield. I thought you were initially referring to the wheels of your shooter. For the safety of your team and the event volunteers, I would protect the area.

Al,

As far as the wheels, which I thought is what he was talking about, it would be difficult to protect them without blocking the ball. I would completely agree, however, that any other area that could be considered unsafe should be covered by something to prevent caught fingers. I'm working field reset this year for the first time and I certainly don't want to be hurt in any way that isn't due to a lack of attention on my part.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitneylion452 (Post 1128944)

I was - these were two distinct questions. Thanks for the advice on both!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireties (Post 1128950)

I was - these were two distinct questions. Thanks for the advice on both!

Good. So I'm not going insane...yet:yikes:

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Our bot pulls balls in on all 4 sides so we have small-ish bumper segments on the corners. Right now the numbers appear in order but with a gap on each side. Does that sound legal? Or would the complete number appearing across the corner work? The Q&As relevant to R35 are kinda vague. If you inspected our bot, what would you say?

TIA

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireties (Post 1129350)

If your number was split between the two bumpers, the Q&A is clear, at least to me. It's saying that you're going to be redoing the numbering to comply with the rules. I really wish they'd put it out in an Update, but it is what it is.

Quote:

Game - The Robot » Bumper Rules
Q. We have a u-shaped robot, so will have split front bumpers. Can we split the our numbers; say "33" on the right and the "52" on the left or do all of the numbers need to be on one side of the robot? It may be a tight fit with the new number size criteria.
A. Per [R35], team numbers must be clearly visible. This means that they may not be inverted, obscured, fragmented, upside down, etc.

Game - The Robot » Bumper Rules » R35
Q. We are deciding to use a square U frame. So, we have to split the 4th bumper into 2 sections. Because of this, we can't decide how to place "3490" on our Bumper. Should we place the 4 numbers on 1 side, or should we split 34 and 90 across the Bumper. R35 doesn't explain how to handle this situation.
A. Per [R35] team numbers must be "clearly visible from a distance of not less than 100 ft, so that judges, referees, and announcers can easily identify competing Robots." Thus they may not be obscured in any way (disconnected, out of order, rotated, upside-down, mirror imaged, etc).

(emphasis mine)

So, no gaps, and I wouldn't go around the corner, either (too easy to construe as a gap in the number, or the wrong number altogether). But the GDC hasn't been asked about going around the corners yet, so that one might be an interesting one to see what they say.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1128634)

Keith and Joe,
The best answer would be to protect as much of the shooter (or any moving parts) as best you can. Field resetters, judges and refs aren't always robot team members.

We put something like a "sneeze guard" all the way around the gear - should be safe now. Thanks for the advice guys!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1129357)

So, no gaps, and I wouldn't go around the corner, either (too easy to construe as a gap in the number, or the wrong number altogether). But the GDC hasn't been asked about going around the corners yet, so that one might be an interesting one to see what they say.

It is quite the quandary - it seems the remaining options do not leave enough room for numbers that are the correct size! The GDC did say that the numbers should be visible every 90 degrees and the rules did NOT say that means front, right side, rear and left side.

"The requirement is that the numbers be viewable from approximately 90° intervals around the Robot. There is no requirement on exactly where, within that 90° interval the numbers are."

Maybe numbering around the corner will work... arghhh

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1129357)

I wouldn't go around the corner, either (too easy to construe as a gap in the number, or the wrong number altogether). But the GDC hasn't been asked about going around the corners yet, so that one might be an interesting one to see what they say.

It seems like it would work as long as you don't have sharp corners (for example, a team that builds wrap-around bumpers instead of separate ones). It does work fine concerning the manual:

Quote:

Originally Posted by R35

Teams shall display their team number on the Bumpers in four locations at approximately 90° intervals around the perimeter of the Robot.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basel A (Post 1129383)

It seems like it would work as long as you don't have sharp corners (for example, a team that builds wrap-around bumpers instead of separate ones). It does work fine concerning the manual:

Ours are wrap around bumpers, maybe this will make the inspectors happy...

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Al already posted a great post on bumpers, but I wanted to re-emphasize it for all teams out there. At a pre-ship scrimmage today with about 25 teams, over half of them would have had to re-do their bumpers in order to pass inspection. The most common issues I saw:

- Team number. Per the Q&A, you CAN NOT split your numbers - if you have an opening with short bumpers on either side, your ENTIRE team number must be on ONE of those bumpers.
- Bumper attachments - Per the 1-17 update to R33, your bumpers have to be attached at the ends of the bumper. Many teams with 8" bumpers had a single attachment to the frame in the middle of the bumper. With that design, there is a single point of failure and your bumper will fall off. With a single point and a strong hit, the bumper could rotate and not provide the needed protection. Mount them securely!
- Frame Perimeter. Several teams had concave frame segments, which made it impossible to place the bumpers on the frame perimeter.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Jon et al,
If the design of the robot frame is such that bumpers cannot be attached at the ends but are still securely fastened to the frame of the robot, I believe that is the intent of the rule in the above case. On a short bumper section (~8 inches) two attachments may be needed depending on the design, to be "securely fastened" as the rule specifies.
Please keep this thought in mind...your bumpers reflect on your robot design and construction. If they are floppy and falling off, scouters might note that. If you want to play on Saturday afternoon you have to make everything look nice and work well, in addition to performing well. If you want to be recognized, team numbers cannot be ambiguous, split or hard to read. If your design requires a bumper that is only 8 inches long adjacent to an exterior vertex, then design the bumper to add the 5" vertical pool noodle that protects the corner to that bumper segment. Then do your best to make your numbers 4" high and fit into the 10.5 inch width you have. If you were to split your team number XXYY, I will bet some scouter will only write down XX.
It is my belief in the order of priority that the GDC wants 1) readable numbers at a distance, 2) at four locations, 3) 4" high, 4) in white or outlined in white, 5) not split, 6) 3/4" stroke. Unspoken in this rule is this test "readable by your grandmother sitting in the stands and wanting to cheer for your team but she needs to see your team number" and "you know that teams are watching you on the webcast because they are playing you next week and want to know which robot is which."

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

Has anyone put together a simple diagram of the preferred (i.e. inspection-acceptable) pneumatics configuration if one is using an off-board compressor? We are in weight-cutting mode, so every 1/4 ounce counts, but I don't want to get to inspection and be required to add back a bunch of regulators and heavy brass connectors.

I have read the Inspection Checklist and searched on CD, but there doesn't seem to be a definitive description of what will or will not be accepted, especially with regard to compressor power path, vent valve locations, and extra valves for safety while transporting the robot with an air charge.

Any clarity would be much appreciated. And a picture is worth > 1000 words.