Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Well, one option might be placing images of stupid mistakes others have made where people line up for inspection or on-line.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I would actually rule another way on this, instead of relying on that Q&A. It's the inspector's prerogative to require verification—and if the identifying features of the motor (most notably the serial number) are obscured by paint, the team won't be able to satisfy the inspector. I avoid that Q&A, because there's a flip side to this: what about other kinds of paint that don't exist for the purpose of cheating?

Some years, labelling mostly-unmodifiable parts with paint is allowed. Other years, it's apparently not.¹

(This is an implication that verges on the absurd, and I'd be very tempted to take a step down the slippery slope of ignoring absurd rules, in order to bypass this potential issue. What inspector has any desire to cause a team to become irate over illegality of the paint marker they used to label a motor? I actually find myself wishing that FIRST had contradicted itself, or made another statement to the contrary, so that inspectors could instead premise their decision on a negligent misrepresentation or the likelihood of misunderstanding.)

¹ I really wish FIRST would think harder about what it means to modify something. This has come up many times before. (And what about ink and tape?)

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Peck,
There is not enough room for all of those in just one year. We discuss them on the LRI phone conference so we can get an idea if a trend is forming.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Hi All
Have been reading this thread with great interest as a rooky inspector at the Toronto west reg,
Have taken the test got my certificate but not received any further info from first yet. But looking forward to the event I was there last year as a team mentor and had a blast. So can we rookies get some advice from the old hands?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Ian,
I suggest you get in touch with your LRI. They should have a variety of info that can be of use. Please look over the Inspection Checklist. It is laid out so that all you have to do is go through and check each item in turn. The motor section has everything listed that is a legal motor. Talk with students and have them lead you through the process. They want to show off so let them. When anything is in doubt or when an issue arises that confounds everyone, please check back with the LRI. If he can't answer, he has a variety of other people to turn to for info, including the Head Ref, FTA, Chief Robot Inspector and everyone above them if need be. One thing to remember since this happens all the time...Never accept when the team tells you an item passed at another regional. Your regional is the only one that counts.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Inspectors work in a number of areas. When you get to your regional your LRI may assign you to a particular area, like weighing/measuring, or pair you up with an experienced inspector to get the hang of it.

Remember, there is no shame in saying you don't know the answer to a certain issue. You can always go back and ask the LRI to clarify any issue on a particular robot. Teams will appreciate your double-checking something you are not sure of instead of making an off-the-cuff decision.

Make sure the teams know you are there to help them pass inspection and offer suggestions whenever possible how to make things legal.

This is my second year as a Robot Inspector and it's been very rewarding working with teams in the pits.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I made this quick gage for inspection out of 3/16" plywood. After inspecting in San Diego and fumbling with a tape measure and frequently finding the bumper gage missing from the inspection area, I thought it would make some of the common measurements quicker to check. I made two of them and brought them to Los Angeles and it seemed to saved some time. Interested in any improvements to help with simple checks.

The key dimensions are:
5" wide for legal bumper width
14" long for maximum appendage extension
2" for minimum bumper height
10" for maximum bumper height
8" for minimum bumper coverage at vertices

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/at...d=13322241 18

I'm scheduled to inspect in Central Valley and at Championships so I should get some good use out of these. Easy to make if anyone sees the benefit.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

what is the depth of the cutout and why was it chosen. (my gut say it is the depth of legal bumpers but I want to be sure)

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

OK,
It's been a wild season so this is my list before Champs. I am sure some of you that are coming to Champs know that something on your robot isn't quite right, was missed by an inspector, or simply you changed and didn't get reinspected. Well, the time has come to make that part compliant with the rules prior to inspection at Champs. So everyone knows, here are some of the things we will be doing, checking for and insuring you correct before match play...

1. All teams must ship their bagged robot in a crate. The first thing you will need to do is open the crate and remove the bagged robot. Have your B&T form ready when crate is opened. We will have inspectors standing by to check your B&T docs and get you signed off as soon as possible. Do not open the bag until released to do so. B&T rules are still in effect.
2. Bumpers have been an issue all season and will be checked again in St. Louis. 8" minimum length for hard parts on either side of an exterior vertex, fully supported by robot frame, with team numbers in only four locations, with no split numbers.
3. While bolt heads, welds and other fasteners can protrude from the frame perimeter, the entire robot including these protrusions still must fit inside the sizing box.
4. If your robot uses any of the ARA motors, be prepared to show documentation.
5. Globe motors are not allowed. You will need to remove them from your robot and replace as needed with a legal motor, i.e. an AndyMark gearmotor, window motor or van door motor, etc.
6. Correct wire size/breaker choice will be checked.
7. As to pneumatics, only an FRC legal compressor may be used to pressurize the robot. The one and only one, legal compressor may not exceed nominal 12V, 1.05 cfm flow rate, it must be controlled by the Crio, powered from the robot battery, filling storage on the robot at either 120 psi or 60 psi (if an off-board compressor option is chosen you may choose to only store 60 psi and save the weight of the regulator).
8. All firmware must be up to date i.e. cRIO image (v43) and DS software Rev 11.30.11.00 or newer and Jag CAN firmware at 99.
9. We will be using Inspection checklist Rev C which follows the Robot Rules Rev B for this event. I encourage all teams to go over the checklist before arriving in St. Louis (read that as today, please).
10. While we hear "but it passed in XXXX" every year, the inspectors have been trained to selectively eliminate that from their hearing database. This is the big show and everything must be tip top!

If you qualified over the weekend and/or are planning a trip to Champs and/or if you were an inspector this year, please sign up for inspecting at Champs in the VIMS Championship section. I need at least 20 more inspectors for Wednesday afternoon/evening and Thursday morning. Thanks to all who have signed up already. This is going to be the biggest Championship ever.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

One and only one compressor. IF you have a second compressor, even a legal one, you may NOT use it unless you retire the 1st compressor. The unfair advantage of a second compressor is to keep your main compressor cooler and/or to wear less.

It does not matter where else it passed, inspectors always approach it as if it were the first event of the season. Don't even bother saying it.

Inspectors are there to help you pass inspection. Giving them agita is counterproductive.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

This is my rookie year as an inspector as well. So far I've inspected in San Diego, Los Angeles and Central Valley in California.

Keeping on the theme of pneumatics, I've seen a lot of relief valves not adjusted correctly even after several competitions. Going to be insisting on this 100% at CMP's.

I've also seen several yellow ring regulators being used as the primary.

Even though both these are clearly on the inspection list, they aren't being checked thoroughly. I assume at Championships we are going to be insistent these are brought into compliance.

Don't get me started on bumpers and numbering ...

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

My guess is that FIRST ordered (or received) a batch of these Norgren 16-004-011 relief valves without having specified the preset or the threadlocker (i.e. 16-004-011-Z125). In theory, if you order the right part, they come preset and are not adjustable. It's also possible that Norgren erred.

Absolutely required and enforceable, yet the rule is utterly useless (and has been forever). The Monnier 101-3002-1 is rated to 250 lb/in² maximum input pressure. (And I suspect there's probably a safety factor on top of that.)

It's probably relegated to the secondary position because someone at FIRST panicked when they saw 5–50 lb/in² on old datasheets, and didn't know that this was just the the range within which the regulator was designed to be adjusted (and moreover, didn't know that regulators rarely fail catastrophically, and that there's a large difference between the rated pressure and the burst pressure anyway). Besides, at some point, Monnier issued an engineering note certifying that the regulators could actually be adjusted through 60 lb/in² for FRC use, and has since updated their catalogue to match. The 0–100 lb/in² gauge range tells you what gauge to buy—see later in the catalogue for examples. (Recall that the gauges go on the regulated output ports, not the one input port. This is not a pressure rating!)

That has been typical practice at the Championship. I'd say that (as of a couple years ago) about 30% of Championship teams using pneumatics showed up with the Monnier (yellow ring) regulator or an ill-adjusted relief valve. And they've all been to at least one event already, and the rules on these items have been relatively consistent for about a decade.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Tristan,
Pre-calibrated valves have not been available in the KOP for three years. The procedure is simple enough and the solution is less costly for the KOP.

The Norgren is a holdover from a time when the primary regulator was not adjustable.

And yes, many of the yellow ring regulators were missed during the season. they always are. The Norgren is the one that is entirely black including the base.

The supplies in the KOP are carefully chosen by the KOP engineers. If you think about it, the KOP engineers have a nearly impossible task each year. They have to come up with a cost effective grouping of parts that anyone can use, meet certain acceptable standards for safety, are readily available as spares and are durable enough that they can be used over and over in other robots. All of this in addition to their other duties and the need to sit in on GDC discussions about the game on a regular basis. Thank you Kate and Collin for the great job you do each year.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

FIRST says "[t]he valve may or may not have been calibrated prior to being supplied to teams", and has implied in the past that the uncalibrated relief valves were inadvertent. If it's now an intended cost-saving measure (which makes sense), FIRST should simply state that clearly, and link to the adjustment instructions in the manual (for those who lose the ones in the bag).

Do you mean the Norgren regulator, or the Norgren relief valve? And which regulator wasn't adjustable?

The old Norgren regulator (R07-153-RNEA) used around 2002 (and I believe before that) was of a similar type to the current one (R07-100-RNEA). Incidentally, the Norgren R07-100-RNEA (primary regulator, with the all-black case) is a 5–50 lb/in² adjustable relieving regulator, rated for 300 lb/in² maximum. It happens to work at 60 lb/in², but that's outside the manufacturer's specified output range.

No question about that.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Tristan,
At one time the relief valves came pre-calibrated and teams who have those from previous KOP may not need to calibrate them. Those received in 2010 KOP may have been calibrated or not depending on the lot they came from. The remainder and those shipped in 2011 and 2012 KOP were reported to be not calibrated.
The Norgren regulator was used because it could not be adjusted to anything higher than 60 psi and in most cases was shipped at that setting.