Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Now that we are getting near robot completion it is now time to do some self inspection of said robot.

1) Go through the Robot Inspection checklist.
2) Be sure Main Breaker is where anyone can reach/see it. If your robot starts to smoke, during a match, wouldn’t it be nice if someone can quickly shut down your robot without having to hunt for the OFF switch?
3) One wire per Wago slot.
4) Confirm proper wire gauge, per application, per breaker.
5) Sharp corners. Remove them. I don’t like seeing blood, especially my own :ahh:
6) Place air pressure gauges where they can be seen clearly.
7) Confirm any appendage cannot go further than 14 inches.
8) Bumpers. Use ¾ inch thick by 5 inches tall plywood, 8 inch minimum length. I have seen teams use ½ inch thick plywood and have to rebuild all their bumpers at a regional before they were allowed to play. Don’t be that team.
9) Bumper Zone is 2 inches to 10 inches.
10) Battery securely contained in robot. I have seen too many robots, during a match, dragging their battery.

At the regionals:
1) Don't wait till the last minute to have your robot inspected. You will avoid the rush from the other teams who waited till the last minute.
2) Don't get mad at the inspectors if they ask you to make some changes. They are only trying to help you have a great regional experiance.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I took a look at what my students had cut so far for the bumpers and caught this exact problem yesterday. Thanks for the reminder list!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I second this. Last year we made the mistake of not securing our battery before an Elimination match and it was thrown from the robot about 20 seconds in.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

If your robot isn't complete on Thursday, you can still get a partial inspection. For a big part of the day, there are usually a few inspectors standing around, looking for something to do. Grab one, have him/her look over your robot, cross some things off the checklist, perhaps the inspector can give you insight on simple ways to improve your design or make it compliant. Then, when you're complete and ready to go, you can finish the inspection and be ready to play.

We do this regularly; it gives us a chance to have a fun, relaxed interaction with the inspectors. They've given us lots of tips - both design and strategy.

Inspectors, referees, field crew, administration - they're all good people, and they've all been in your position before. Take the time to make good relationships with them. It'll pay in spades.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Thirded with emphasis. Also, anything that's elastic doesn't count as secure. We lost the '07 Great Lakes Regional for 1114 because I assumed another mentor purchased a proper battery strap and it turned out to be elastic. After technical difficulties in Semi 1, we went out in Semi 2 without a bumper that covered our battery. All that was holding the battery in was this elastic strap. Someone hit us hard enough to rocket our battery out of the robot and there goes what should have been an epic trophy for my team.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Quoted for truth. That little breaker gets exponentially harder to find when you're trying to turn the robot off quickly while still being conscious of the safety issue at hand. Print off the nice, red-and-white striped sticker from FIRST and put it on before the competition, and everyone will be happy.

Al's Annual Inspection Thread.
 

Now that we are less than a week to Stop Work Day, (and since a new Inspection Checklist was released last night) it is time to remind all teams that robots need to be inspected before all competitions. As it appears that many teams are choosing pneumatics this year for some functions, let's start there.

1. The compressor used to charge the robot storage system must be an FRC legal compressor controlled by the Crio. If you choose to keep your compressor off-board, it still must operate under Crio control and all other robot rules must be followed.

2. Valves must meet the max volume spec of 0.32 Cv per R71.

3. Components may not be modified. This includes painting, grinding to remove weight, etc. You may remove the pin from a cylinder as long as the cylinder itself is not modified in the process.

4. Tubing can be a maximum of .160 ID and all tubing must carry a working pressure rating of 125 psi.

5. Working pressure must be supplied through one primary Norgren regulator at 60 psi. Working pressures less that 60 psi can be supplied through additional regulators downstream of the primary regulator.

6. The pressure relief valve is not calibrated from the factory. You must adjust it to open at greater than 125 psi. This can be accomplished by bypassing the pressure switch and adjusting the valve while monitoring the high pressure gauge. Be sure to tighten the locking collar and test again.

7. The pneumatic system will be checked during the "Power On" test portion of the Inspection Checklist on p2.

Please have several of your students and one mentor assigned to checking over the Inspection Checklist prior to sealing the bag next Tuesday. It will save you considerable time at your events. Remember that when you inspect early, you get to go into the practice fill in line and get some extra practice time on the field.

One quick reminder...The rules have changed this year for maximum size of the operator console. This is due to the ball return's size in the driver's station.

[R82]
The Operator Console must not exceed 44 in. long by 12 in. deep (excluding any items that are held or worn by the
Drivers during the Match).

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread.
 

Are all previous year KOP valves considered legal?

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread.
 

Doubtful. The 0.32 C_V requirement is new enough that several years' KOP valves likely have not been vetted by FIRST. Also, inspectors are not typically provided with documentation for KOP valves, especially from previous years.

The best protection is to bring the manufacturer's documentation for the valve.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

11) If you are using a chain be sure to put a guard over it, if there is any chance someone can get aan appendage caught in it ::ouch::

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

This is all great advice. It is so importance to go through the checklist yourself, before build season is over. So, here's the official checklist:
1) Go through the Robot Inspection checklist.

And, because there's been so much discussion about bumper length:
8) Bumpers. Use ¾ inch thick by 5 inches tall plywood, 8 inch minimum length.
The 8" does not include any plywood in the corner (overlapping another bumper). You must have 8" from the vertex (corner of the frame perimeter).

I hope this helps. Good luck, everyone!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Do you have a link to this? I don't remember seeing it on FIRST's site.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

What about protecting the shooter wheels? Our gears are relatively inaccessible but one could stick their hands into the wheel. Any comments or suggestions?

TIA

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Clearly marking it as a dangerous area (caution tape or Yellow/Black stripes) is better than nothing if some sort of physical guard is not possible because of other constraints.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

IT would be tough to prevent people from putting their hands in the wheel without actually hindering the ball's path out of the shooter. I would do with enguneer's recommendation and put some caution tape or warning sign near the shooter. Like what you see on a lawn mower reminding you that blades moving at however many RPM can be hazardous to the well being of your fingers. :D

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

We are assembling our shooter - it sits on a what looks like a 17" dia gear. In some places this gear gets close to the plate under it. If one got a finger under it or near the gear (on a AndyMark gear motor) that drives the turntable, it could hurt you. So my question is - will a robot inspector likely make us cover this area for safety reasons?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Keith and Joe,
The best answer would be to protect as much of the shooter (or any moving parts) as best you can. Field resetters, judges and refs aren't always robot team members.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Next installment in the Al's Annual Inspection list. Thanks to Wayne for getting it started this year.

Bumpers.
Ok bumpers have been around for a while, they change a little every year but they are here to stay. You must satisfy all the bumper rules, not just selected ones. So here goes...
1. They must be backed by 3/4" thick plywood, 5 inches high. If you are not able to get 3/4" in your country then the nearest metric equivalent is OK. Pine boards and MDF are not allowed.
2. You must have two, vertically stacked 2 1/2" pool noodles. Color is not a consideration but they must not be modified by inserting round bar stock to add weight or shaped in any fashion to allow better functionality for your robot. Exception to this rule below.
3. Bumpers must be covered in strong fabric of red or blue color, closely matching the colors of the First Logo. 1000 denier nylon is recommended. You will need to change colors depending on which alliance you are assigned in any match. This means you either have a method of changing colors on one bumper system or you have two bumpers systems, one blue and one red.
4. You may add a 5" long piece of pool noodle in a vertical orientation to cover the corners of your bumper system. This is to insure that no hard parts of your robot or bumper is capable of contacting another robot or field parts. You may miter the corner pool noodles to accomplish this protection. See Fig 4-6 in the robot manual.
5. Bumpers must attach firmly to the frame of your robot, be able to be easily removed or mounted and all parts of the bumper system must remain inside the critical 2" to 10" above a flat floor. All sections do not need to be at the same height but they all must remain inside the bumper zone when mounted.
6. Bumpers need to have your team number displayed on four sides of your robot. The numbers need to be 4" high, 3/4" stroke and readable from a distance. Team numbers need to be white in color or outlined in white. If you are doing well, you want other teams to know who you are.
7. Small gaps behind the bumper system are allowed due to boltheads, fasteners and welds. However, bumpers only work when backed up by robot structure. So small spaces can be bridged by the bumpers but nothing greater than 8" long. See Fig 4-7 of the robot rules.
8. With this year's game, many teams will design their bumpers to have openings for appendages or ball handlers. That is OK as long as all exterior vertices are covered with a bumper section (backing board) of at least 8" in long on both sides of the vertice.
9. Your bumpers will be weighed separately at inspection so remove them but bring them with your robot to the weigh and size station. One complete set of bumpers must weigh less than 20 lbs. Both sets need to be weighed if you have a red and blue set.
10. Securely fastened to the robot frame means threaded fasteners, cleavis pin attachment or some other rigid form of attachment. Zip ties, duct tape, rubber bands or velcro do not meet the requirement of secure fastening.
There are several questions about bumpers on the Q&A forum, I suggest you search 'bumpers' on the forum and read them. You can find it here...
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Questions.php

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

For that I would definitely cover it with some sort of shield. I thought you were initially referring to the wheels of your shooter. For the safety of your team and the event volunteers, I would protect the area.

Al,

As far as the wheels, which I thought is what he was talking about, it would be difficult to protect them without blocking the ball. I would completely agree, however, that any other area that could be considered unsafe should be covered by something to prevent caught fingers. I'm working field reset this year for the first time and I certainly don't want to be hurt in any way that isn't due to a lack of attention on my part.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I was - these were two distinct questions. Thanks for the advice on both!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Good. So I'm not going insane...yet:yikes:

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Our bot pulls balls in on all 4 sides so we have small-ish bumper segments on the corners. Right now the numbers appear in order but with a gap on each side. Does that sound legal? Or would the complete number appearing across the corner work? The Q&As relevant to R35 are kinda vague. If you inspected our bot, what would you say?

TIA

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

If your number was split between the two bumpers, the Q&A is clear, at least to me. It's saying that you're going to be redoing the numbering to comply with the rules. I really wish they'd put it out in an Update, but it is what it is.
(emphasis mine)

So, no gaps, and I wouldn't go around the corner, either (too easy to construe as a gap in the number, or the wrong number altogether). But the GDC hasn't been asked about going around the corners yet, so that one might be an interesting one to see what they say.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

We put something like a "sneeze guard" all the way around the gear - should be safe now. Thanks for the advice guys!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

It is quite the quandary - it seems the remaining options do not leave enough room for numbers that are the correct size! The GDC did say that the numbers should be visible every 90 degrees and the rules did NOT say that means front, right side, rear and left side.

"The requirement is that the numbers be viewable from approximately 90° intervals around the Robot. There is no requirement on exactly where, within that 90° interval the numbers are."

Maybe numbering around the corner will work... arghhh

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

It seems like it would work as long as you don't have sharp corners (for example, a team that builds wrap-around bumpers instead of separate ones). It does work fine concerning the manual:

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Ours are wrap around bumpers, maybe this will make the inspectors happy...

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Al already posted a great post on bumpers, but I wanted to re-emphasize it for all teams out there. At a pre-ship scrimmage today with about 25 teams, over half of them would have had to re-do their bumpers in order to pass inspection. The most common issues I saw:

- Team number. Per the Q&A, you CAN NOT split your numbers - if you have an opening with short bumpers on either side, your ENTIRE team number must be on ONE of those bumpers.
- Bumper attachments - Per the 1-17 update to R33, your bumpers have to be attached at the ends of the bumper. Many teams with 8" bumpers had a single attachment to the frame in the middle of the bumper. With that design, there is a single point of failure and your bumper will fall off. With a single point and a strong hit, the bumper could rotate and not provide the needed protection. Mount them securely!
- Frame Perimeter. Several teams had concave frame segments, which made it impossible to place the bumpers on the frame perimeter.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Jon et al,
If the design of the robot frame is such that bumpers cannot be attached at the ends but are still securely fastened to the frame of the robot, I believe that is the intent of the rule in the above case. On a short bumper section (~8 inches) two attachments may be needed depending on the design, to be "securely fastened" as the rule specifies.
Please keep this thought in mind...your bumpers reflect on your robot design and construction. If they are floppy and falling off, scouters might note that. If you want to play on Saturday afternoon you have to make everything look nice and work well, in addition to performing well. If you want to be recognized, team numbers cannot be ambiguous, split or hard to read. If your design requires a bumper that is only 8 inches long adjacent to an exterior vertex, then design the bumper to add the 5" vertical pool noodle that protects the corner to that bumper segment. Then do your best to make your numbers 4" high and fit into the 10.5 inch width you have. If you were to split your team number XXYY, I will bet some scouter will only write down XX.
It is my belief in the order of priority that the GDC wants 1) readable numbers at a distance, 2) at four locations, 3) 4" high, 4) in white or outlined in white, 5) not split, 6) 3/4" stroke. Unspoken in this rule is this test "readable by your grandmother sitting in the stands and wanting to cheer for your team but she needs to see your team number" and "you know that teams are watching you on the webcast because they are playing you next week and want to know which robot is which."

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Has anyone put together a simple diagram of the preferred (i.e. inspection-acceptable) pneumatics configuration if one is using an off-board compressor? We are in weight-cutting mode, so every 1/4 ounce counts, but I don't want to get to inspection and be required to add back a bunch of regulators and heavy brass connectors.

I have read the Inspection Checklist and searched on CD, but there doesn't seem to be a definitive description of what will or will not be accepted, especially with regard to compressor power path, vent valve locations, and extra valves for safety while transporting the robot with an air charge.

Any clarity would be much appreciated. And a picture is worth > 1000 words.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Per the FIRST manual. I hope this helps.
[R73]
Compressed air on the Robot must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor specifications may not exceed nominal 12V, 1.05 cfm flow rate, 120 psi maximum working pressure. Off-board compressors must be controlled and powered by the Robot.

If an alternative compressor is used, the team may be required to provide documentation to show compliance with the performance specifications.

The only difference between an on- and off-board compressor is that the off-board compressor is physically removed from the Robot. The intent of this rule is to permit teams to take advantage of the weight savings associated with keeping the compressor off-board. However, using the compressor off-board of the Robot does NOT permit non-compliance with any other applicable rules.The compressor may be mounted on the Robot, or it may be left off the Robot and used to pre-charge compressed air in the storage tanks prior to bringing the Robot onto the Court.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Scott,
The pneumatic rules are very specific on what can be off board if you choose to place pneumatic items off board.
[R73]
Compressed air on the Robot must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor specifications may not
exceed nominal 12V, 1.05 cfm flow rate, 120 psi maximum working pressure. Off-board compressors must be
controlled and powered by the Robot.
Under R74
D. If the compressor is not included on the Robot (under the provisions of Rule [R73]), the regulator and high-pressure gauge may be located on-board or off-board, provided all other pneumatic rules are satisfied.
Note that if the regulator is kept off-board the Robot with the compressor, then only low-pressure (60 psi or less) “working” air can be stored on the Robot.
During Power On testing, you will need to show that the compressor indeed is controlled by the Crio, shuts off at ~120 psi, and meets all other pneumatic rules that apply.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Wayne and Al -

Thanks for the quick reply. I have just a few points needing clarification:

Assuming that I make a "compressor assembly" that holds the compressor and all the control components that I choose (and are allowed) to be kept off the robot:

- Compressor power will be provided through one Spike, which will remain on the Robot. Power will be provided to the compressor on the "downstream" end of the Spike via a suitable Anderson Powerpole connector.

- We will install one vent valve on the robot and one on the compressor assembly. The one on the compressor will be used to vent the supply line between the compressor and the robot before disconnecting. I assume this is the purpose of the "additional vent valve" specified on the Inspection Checklist, correct?

- We will keep the high pressure gauge and regulator on the robot in order to maximize on-board air supply. However, can I assume that it is okay to keep the mechanical compressor relief valve on the compressor assembly, because the only time we run the risk of overpressurizing the system is during filling? I.e. Can I ignore any overpressurization that might occur in my system due to ambient temperature changes after fillup? (In reality, I would assume the system would cool down, not heat up.)

- Likewise, can I leave the Compressor Control Pressure Switch on the compressor assembly if I make it obvious that the signal cable to the Digital Sidecar must also be plugged in when filling, thereby insuring full control by the cRio? After all, if the pressure switch circuit is left open, the cRio will not allow the compressor to run, correct?

I can see arguments for a "no" answer on either of the last two above, but I don't believe they are specifically covered in either the Rules or the Checklist. If the answer to all of the above is yes, then we would have three connections to make between the robot and compressor assembly:
1. air
2. compressor power (most likely a suitable Anderson powerpole product)
3. digital signal cable from the pressure switch to the sidecar

Sorry to be so detailed, and I realize the weight savings may be irrelevant in the overall scheme of things, but I would just like to do it right (and safe!).

Thanks!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Al et al,

I noticed a problem with the inspection checklist linked above, and I'm not sure how to report it, so I figured I'd kick it up to you and Wayne.

Under the custom circuits section of the electrical checklist, it says: Rule R65 actually says:Probably something that will be fixed before week 1, but it does seem significant.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Abrakadabra,
The pneumatic system can also get pressurized if an actuator is moved by its mechanical linkage being thwacked during a collision, for instance. Since you're going with off-board compressor, I presume that your actuators are not very big, so this isn't necessarily a problem for you. But you know rule makers. Cover the whole spectrum of possibility, if possible. I would put the relief valve into the robot's circuit even if the rules didn't require it. See [R72]

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Kris,
I will check into this. The incongruity comes from the attempt to compress everything into one check item I believe. I thought I had everything cross checked. Thanks.

Scott,
The relief valve is intended to vent on the off chance of a control failure and the compressor runs continuously. The rule states it must be attached to the compressor through suitable brass fittings. The Thomas compressor can run up to 150psi before it's seals bypass.
The high side gauge may be located off board if you wish.
The pressure switch may not be located off board. This was allowed in the past but was changed for this year. The intent is that it accurately senses the stored pressure on the robot so it works in your favor to keep it on the robot.
The Spike must remain on the robot.
The thought behind this rule is that an equivalent loss in functionality is the consequence for the weight savings in removing the compressor.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

In honor of stop build day...
Today is the day to stop working on your competition robot. Midnight local time on Feb 21.
1. By midnight you should putt your robot into the bag and seal it, complete your robot lock form including the seal number(s).
2. Bumpers may be bagged separately if you choose.
3. Do not lose the form and be sure you have it handy when you arrive on site for your competition. You will need this form for every event you attend through the Championship.
4. For some teams who have been given permission to ship their robots by First, you will follow the instructions for crating and shipping from First in addition to bagging the robot prior to crating.
5. Do not lose the form. Your inspection team will sign off on your form and instruct you as to when you may cut the seal and open the bag.
6. If you lose the form, you will need to follow additional steps to complete a non-compliance form. This form requires three signatures in addition to the team's info and signature. Inspectors are very busy and it may take a while to receive all the required signatures on the form. You may not open the bag and begin work or practice on your robot until instructed to do so after the non-compliance form is complete.
7. Don't lose the form, don't leave it with someone who is not coming to the first day of the regional event, don't leave it on the bus or back at the hotel if you want to maximize the time you will have to work on the robot or practice.
8. All robots must be inspected before they are allowed to participate in matches. Those robots that are inspected early may enter the fill-in line during practice and get some needed extra practice time. You do not need to be inspected to practice but you may be prevented from taking the field if your robot has any safety issues that need to be addressed. Some events require at least a cursory safety inspection as you queue for practice.
9. As discussed above, inspectors will need a BOM to be displayed during inspection. You may show this on a laptop or by hard copy. Please make the print large enough for older people to see and read.
10. Please get some rest and relaxation. To those of you in Week One events, good luck. Your competition is only 9 days away.

Happy Punchki Day everyone. Don't eat too many.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

We have an exemption to crate/ship our 'bot. Can we put the lockup form (signed) into the crate (but outside the robot bag(s))? I guess what I'm asking is, will we need the form in our possession to claim or open the crate, or can we open the crate, take out the form and hand it to the inspector before opening the bag(s)?

Seems to me to be a good way to ensure that we don't forget to bring the form.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

This should not happen if your pressure regulator is functioning properly. If a pneumatic cylinder is set to a working pressure of 45psi and it gets manually depressed by some impact or other impetus, the pressure regulator will vent anything over 45psi from the low pressure side out to atmosphere.

The 125psi relief valve is there in case the pressure switch fails and the compressor unknowingly keeps pumping air into the system.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

This is our problem. According to a veteran programmer, our plans never seem to include the position of the Main Breaker and it always winds up in some random place. This time it's definitely visible... but behind a sheet of lexan. Aaah!

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

cut a "mousehole" in the lexan, big enough to provide hand room.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Does a Xerox of the lockup form count or does it have to be the actual signed form? It would seem prudent to make copies in case it gets lost.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

And please remember that all hands are not the same size; small hands fit in large holes but not vice versa. :)

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

If I putt it more than twice do I get a bogey? :D

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I am going to answer a few questions in this post.

First, if you are shipping your robot in a crate, a reminder to everyone, it still must be sealed in a bag and the lockup form is still required. You can ship the lockup form in the crate if you wish. Be advised that when you remove the robot, the venue will take away the crate and you may not have access to it until the end of the event. You need the form in hand prior to a an inspector allowing you to open the seal and unbag your robot. In the absence of an original lockup form, a copy may accelerate the process but the non-compliance procedure may still be in effect. I will try and get an answer on that.

Breakers behind lexan while looking good make it harder for field people to protect your investment. A hole in the lexan needs to be big enough for my hand to go in. Ask anybody, it is pretty big, I can bridge almost an octave and a half on the piano. Much bigger than a mouse. If it isn't easy to turn off we will all just sit and watch it burn and toast marshmallows.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

MMMMMMmmmmm Marshmallows :D

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Get Peeps to make red white and blue marshmallows in the three Archimedean solids for FIRST. Talk about Dean's Homework!

More on topic, though: Can an extension of the "off" button be made? Labelled properly of course. There's always the trade-off between efficient electrical path battery-to-breaker-to-PDB and accessibility for safety. Additional incentive to not burning is not getting technical foul and red card for field damage. :p

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Bill,
If you are suggesting a push rod that couples to the breaker "off" button there would appear to be no rule that prevents that as long as you are not modifying the breaker. However, it seems that the complexity to make such a device and prevent it from accidentally triggering the breaker off is beyond what is really needed and would take away needed weight needed for other functionality.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Al,
The reputation scores don't go high enough to handle yours. If the push rod or lever had a snap-over in the vein of fire-alarm boxes, inadvertent tripping could be minimized. I'm sure you've seen those hoods for toggle switches that reduce the chances for accidental operation too. I think our switch is in a good place this year, but there is some sentiment for having a cover for the control board. I'd like to preserve the access and noticeability for the switch in case they go wild with decorations. thanks again for this and indeed all your advice.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I looked thru the inspection check list and didn't see anything about appendages being deemed legal during inspection. Will appendages be checked to make sure they adhere to rules and wether they obscure team numbers on bumpers?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

By "mousehole" I was referring to shape, not size.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Bill,
I was thinking about the rod vibrating while the robot drives around. I know that a couple of good taps on the button is enough to open the breaker.

John,
Appendages are checked in the second to last line of the Mechanical section. Teams either have to demonstrate that the appendage(s) is under mechanical or software control to prevent it from extending beyond the 14".

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Last year our breaker was easily reached (a baseball glove could go through the access 'hole') and easily visible from the top of the bot but the inspector made us move it to the exterior.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Keith,
We cannot make a judgement on this decision but there is no rule that indicates the breaker has to on the exterior of the robot. It needs to be easily accessed by a human and impossible to reach by a robot.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I wasn't looking for a judgment, just warning that some inspectors take the accessibility rule to extremes. I thought the move was ridiculous - still had to move it to play.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

If you have doubts about an inspectors call then ask the head inspector. Remember inspectors are great guys but we all make mistakes. Even Al :)

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Eye nevr' maek misteaks

As a rule of thumb, if the breaker can be seen and easily accessible, then I have no problem. I may ask you to make up a sticker or use red tape indicating the switch location.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

When?

No really Sam is correct. Please do not start making a major change without checking. You may have misunderstood or we may have not communicated correctly. I remember telling a team that they had to change a #18 to a #14 since it was used in a particular way. The team interpreted that suggestion as all wiring needed to be changed to #14. It was my fault for not checking that they understood and their fault for not asking. I won't make that mistake again.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Quick Question: If bumper covers cause the bumper zone to go up to 10.25", would this need t be rectified? the plywood and undercover do not exceed the 10" zone.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Yes. Bumper covers are part of the bumper and so must be under 10".

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Now that we have had a few days of rest after stop build...
I feel refreshed.
Next installment to Al's Annual Inspection Thread, electrical. There is so many things that have changed and so many that remain the same.

1. All parts of the electrical system must be visible for inspection and on field diagnostics. Inspectors will need to see wires leaving the PD, breakers, speed controllers and motors. They will check for proper connection of the 5 volt regulator that feed the wireless access point. Power connections to the Crio, analog module, solenoid module and Digital Side Car must also be checked.
2. All indicators on the electrical system must be visible. Inspectors will check the LEDs during the 'power on' test for faults. There are three LEDs on the PD and the DSC, LEDs on the Crio and radio and the RSL if not lit must be checked on the DSC.
3. Wire size, the rules provide for the wire to be sized to the breaker. If you are using a 40 amp breaker, the wire can be a minimum of #12 or metric equiv.
4. Motors are a real challenge for us this year. More motors than ever before with certain motors from previous years and ARA available motors are all legal on the 2012 robot. Inspectors need to be able to identify these motors. If you are using motors from an ARA local outlet, you will need to show the paperwork that these were obtained through the legal source.
5. Custom circuits need to be checked for wiring, to insure they are properly supplied power, do not control loads directly or affect power pathways.
6. Insulation is required for the Crio and camera to prevent the battery from being connected to robot frame. The robot frame must be isolated from power.
7. Wiring colors will be checked. Red/white/brown/black w/stripe for +24, +12, +5 VDC supply wires and black/blue for supply return wires. Sorry, no exceptions.
8. One and only one wire per WAGO terminal. For multiple sensors that can be powered by one output, you may use a terminal strip or suitable splice/junction that is insulated.
9. All battery terminals must be insulated and any electrical connections that are not protected from other robots should also be insulated. We want you to play.
10. Battery must be securely mounted. Wire ties do not count. Secure belting, clamps, structural designs that prevent the battery from falling out are all legal and desirable. If you battery comes out, you will be disabled. Protect your battery, it is the lifeblood of your robot. There will be many robots tip overs, hard hits, falls off the bridge, etc.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

A few days ago, Kris Verdeyen asked a question about an incongruity between the inspection checklist and rule R65.E - the rule says that teams may use the DB9 serial port on the cRio, but the inspection checklist says they may not. Has any progress been made on getting this rectified? We built a fairly significant subsystem on our robot to communicate with the cRio on the serial port based on rule R65. I'm assuming that the rule would take precedence over the inspection checklist, but I'd hate to get to the competition and find that we are in violation. Your thoughts?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Jeff,
we are currently working on resolving that issue on the checklist. The rule takes precedent. It is difficult to get everything on the checklist and get it under two pages long.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I would have expected items from the Kit of Parts to be permitted, but "no exceptions" means powering sensors or servos using the supplied PWM cables is prohibited. The +5 supply wire on the female-female one is black and the return is either red or white, and the extension cables have either brown or orange as the supply return.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Alan,
R45 relates to constant voltage power supply and exempts outputs of relay modules, speed controllers, or sensor outputs. Good catch.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Wires that are part of legal devices are also exempt from the guage and color rules. Our LED ring would be illegal without that rule.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

So in regards to this Q&A response:

Do we need to provide evidence of what we received from FIRST Choice? Or is that just going to be convered under the signature that everything on our robot is per the rules?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I was going through the robot checklist and I found another item that is sometimes forgotten.
Team Name - Prominently and proudly display the team’s school name and primary sponsor(s) name/logo <R04>
Your sponsors have donated money so you can build a robot. Shouldn't you show your appreciation and place their name on your bot?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Gary,
I am going to hazard a guess that the GDC responded to this question with the assumption that the team was asking could they get the exclusion if they obtained the part from somewhere other than First Choice. That is what jumped to mind when I read the response a second time. The team could not obtain the part through First Choice as it was a limited quantity item so they found it somewhere else and paid for it from that source. Under those circumstances I would agree that the part needs to be costed out on the BOM.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I guess since I'm the one who posted the question here's where I'm coming from. When earlier in the season I asked the question about the Van Door motor not being allowable since it is from FIRST Choice and not listed as a legal source, the answer I got was that it was in a prior year's KOP so it was legal. So if I put the one I got from FIRST Choice on the robot it's free, but if I put the one on from a prior year's KOP I have to account for the cost? How exactly would you like me to track which one I'm using - we have never made a distinction between original parts and spares, but this sounds like it makes a difference where you got at least your first one.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

as long as you are only using the quantity which you obtained from First Choice, then I would imagine you can account for the cost assuming they are from FIRST choice. If I had an AM 9015 burn out and bought an exact replacement from AM but still only used the quantity that came in the kit (one), would I really have to account for the cost of that motor? What if this happened in the middle of a competition? Would you have to re-submit your BOM even though the parts on your robot haven't changed? What if you went to another competition after that? Right?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Gary,
We don't track spares on the BOM. With this rule...

The following items are excluded from the total cost calculation:
A. items listed on any KOP Checklist (qty is limited to the total listed in the most recent checklist),

I would say if it was listed on a previous year's KOP checklist then it is excluded.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

That's what I was thinking too... that's how it has worked for other things in the past.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I missed that change in the rule, that is a huge difference from past years.

Thanks Al.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

If that's the case, would we not have to count any of our CIM motors because we are using the motors from last year's KOP?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Quantity is limited to the most recent list.
So the first two CIMs are free.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Remember that the GDC in the Q&A covers items that are previous KOP that have been modified prior to the 2012 season.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Now that week 1 is under the bridge (pun intended) let us take a look at some additional items.

This weekend it seems that bumpers continue to be an issue. Regardless of previous year's rules, the minimum bumper segment must be 8" long and be supported by robot frame. The ends may not extend past robot frame and be unsupported. In other words, if you have constructed your robot frame to be 6" wide on either side of a ball handler opening in your frame, this is an illegal design. The frame and bumper must be a minimum of 8" and the bumper must be fully supported by the frame (except with certain exceptions listed in R33) You cannot have a 6" frame segment with an 8" bumper segment mounted to it allowing the bumper to extend beyond the frame.

Numbers on the bumpers must be in four places and four only. The team numbers must not be segmented or split across an opening or across two bumper segments. The GDC has ruled on this and is very clear in how teams are to implement the rule and how inspectors are to judge the bumper design.

While inspectors will not rule on appendage usage, we will inspect for the distance outside the frame that any appendage can travel during a match. If you appendage is capable of extending beyond 14 inches and has some limit in place (either mechanical stops or software) then they will check that during inspection as well.

Rev C of the Inspection Checklist was issued on Tuesday. This will be the version used at events except if an updated checklist is issued.

I would like to remind everyone that modification of motors is only allowed for very specific reasons...
R49
Motors, servos, and electric solenoids used on the Robot shall not be modified in any way, except as follows:
A. The mounting brackets and/or output shaft/interface may be modified to facilitate the physical connection of the motor to the Robot and actuated part.
B. The electrical input leads may be trimmed to length as necessary.
C. The locking pins on the window motors (PN 262100-3030 and 262100-3040) may be removed.
D. The connector housings on the window motors (PN 262100-3030 and262100-3040) may be modified to facilitate lead connections.

Please note that this does not allow modifications to motors or integral transmissions even if the manufacturer supplies a mod kit. It does not allow the removal of integral transmissions to use the motor only.

I hope all teams participating in Week Two events have a great time.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I don't think that the four and four times only number can be stressed enough. I saw a team at Gull Lake in Eliminations competing with the number five times.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I'll add what I saw at the Smoky Mountains Regional.

I saw several breakers that were hard to get to. One team had their breaker inside a plexiglass box. I asked them how they turned on their bot and they told me they remove the front bumper, remove the two screws holding the lid down and then turn on/off the switch. I got them to put in a hole in the side of the box.
Also, please go over your pneumatic schematic and be sure everything is in it's place. Just saying.

Also, I had fun at SMR. Ed was great to work for.

FYI, only use one tag on your bagged robot :D

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

There is a reason I have Ed as a division lead at Champs.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I had a question on this as we had lots of issues with this in San Diego this past weekend. Since there is no 8" minimum frame requirement on it's own, it would make sense to me that if an 8" bumper carried it's own continuous metal backing and could be securely attached to the frame, that would constitute a legal system? Providing it met weight of course.

We were specifically making teams extend their frames causing substantial rework and missed matches. Not to mention modifications to ball retrieval systems. I will be inspecting at 3 more competitions and I'd like to offer some better alternatives to teams for being in compliance and ensure consistency throughout the competition season.

Thank you,

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I do have to say, teams that attend the Rochester Rally every year (hosted by Team 1511) have a great benefit: FLR's chief inspector, the wonderful (and extremely tall) Rob Heslin gives every robot a quick once-over to make sure that the most egregious faults are identified prior to Bag and Tag. Our bumpers were good, but our pneumatics needed modification...

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Did the world end?:D

#1 thing I wish was a non issue this year.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I inspected Alamo this weekend and we were allowing lots of ways to extend the frame, most of the time it was just an L bracket, the rules don't really define how sturdy a frame must be as long it is non-articulated. The most important part is the frame counts to your weight and isn't part of your bumper attachment system which is weighed differently, so having 6 inch of frame with 8 inch of metal backing on the bumper would change where the weight is allocated.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

The most common method of "erasing" the 5th bumper number is to put tape over it. So they exchange one rules violation for another. Is that what we really want?

Allowable bumper materials are plywood, noodles, fabric, fasteners and optional angle reinforcements. Nothing else. Which is why the suggestion of integral metal reinforcement of the bumper itself isn't permitted.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Part of me agrees, but part of me is happy that they're being (at least mostly) consistent about making sure that teams follow the rules, whatever those rules happen to be.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

(emphasis mine)

Where in the rules does it say "nothing else"? [R28] mentions some things you must use (noodles, cloth), but does not say "only" or any words like that.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

[R28] begins with "Bumpers must be constructed as follows". If your intended method & materials do not follow, then it is not allowed.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

The metal backing has been determined to be "fastener" in the past. The reason that a metal backing on the bumper is not considered "frame" is because it's attached to the bumper, not the robot. "Frame" must meet all robot size and weight requirements. It really starts to become a "I need to see the specific implementation" headache, and I'm dreading some of the things we are going to see at Championship with the requisite "But it passed at XXX regional" commentary.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I don't see why people interpret [R28] to be so restrictive. [R28-B] has the phrase "(e.g. plywood, fasteners, etc)", which clearly opens up other parts. [R28-E] likewise has "All removable fasteners (e.g. bolts, locking pins, pip-pins, etc.) will be considered part of the Bumpers." And [R28-F] mentions "structures", without any definition of a structure or what materials may or may not be used in a structure. When I see "e.g." (==for example) and "etc." (==and so forth), I definitely think the list is not exclusive.

For the record, our bumpers are just made of the standard items. I question this interpretation because I've seen other people post questions about other materials, get told it's illegal, yet I don't see the justification, and I've never actually seen a team have trouble at an official inspection.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

If the plywood on a bumper measures 7-7/8" lets say, then when you add on the fabric and noodles, if the bumper now measures 8" would an inspector accept this as a legal bumper? Or think about discrepancies in measuring devices like a tape measure as apposed to a machinist rule. Just asking how exacting will a inspector be? I realize that 7-3/4" is totally to short but where would an inspector draw the line? an 1/8", a 1/16", a 1/32"? zero tolerance? Just asking;)

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

The inspector should be measuring the frame backing the bumper you are describing to determine if it is 8", then measure the plywood to make sure it is 8" as required by R27. I'll be using an ordinary measuring tape and if it is at 8" according to my tape measure, then I would pass the bumper. I wouldn't consider 7-3/4" to be 8".

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

[R28-B]
The (stuffinparens) do open up other parts- as an adjective to the collection, "Hard Bumper Parts". Then a restriction is placed upon these "Hard Bumper Parts", which thus restricts all those other parts now included in "Hard Bumper Parts". It does not legalize all hard bumper parts.

If a rule specifically enumerated that all lasers in the bumper must be within 1" of the frame, it would still not legalize lasers.

You may be confused why time was taken to enumerate through these specific parts. For this, see [R28E], which specifically requires you to build something on your own. It's because of this stuff that broader restrictions are necessary.

Basically, everything in the bumper must be exactly as proscribed, except for that one part in which you must design your own mounting system. This could include hard parts (plywood, fasteners, etc), so there had to rule limiting hard parts. But because the rule proscribes a mounting system, it has to be just a mounting system, even if it seems strong enough to be part of the frame.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

I originally interpreted the rule this way too, but then this Q&A came out:

Rule (R28) says:

(Emphasis mine)

So that 2-12 inch extension is part of rule (R28), therefore is part of the 8" required. So the way I read the rule and the Q&A answer, a 6" long plywood back with 2-1/2 inch cushion extension would within the rules.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

If both the frame behind the bumper segment and the plywood part of the bumper are 8" or more, they pass. If they're shorter than 8" I tell them to fix the problem, but if they're within 1/4" or so and haven't figured out that they can ask for the LRI to take a look I'd remind them. If they're a rookie team AND if it's going to be really hard to add the distance I'd be inclined to give them a bit of a break, and would recommend that to the LRI.

And I'm quite happy with the accuracy of my Stanley tape measure, thanks. :)

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Again, what problem? (ref my post above). The Q&A answer seems quite clear, if the bumper parts are described by (R28) they are part of the 8" requirement. The 2-1/2" noodle extension is described by (R28-C), so is therefore part of the 8". Nowhere does any rule state the the plywood backing must be 8" long.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

This is the problem:
You can't count the material in the corner - you need 8" on each side of the exterior vertex of the frame perimeter. That means you need 8" of frame with 8" of plywood and 8" of pool noodles and 8" of durable cloth covering in front of it. That is the absolute minimum length a bumper section can be when attached to the corner of the robot. It can be longer - you can have another 1" of plywood hanging off the end of the frame perimeter (R28B), you can have "soft parts" of the bumper extend another 2.5" past the frame perimeter (R28C), and you can extend the bumper further down the frame perimeter away from the vertex (you can even have the entire length of the frame perimeter covered in bumper if you want!).

People keep trying to lawyer this rule, and have been for a long time now... it's written clearly, and your LRI will tell you to fix it if you have 5.5" of bumper with 2.5" in the corner - argue all you want that it meets the requirements for R27, you won't get your sticker until you fix it.

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

Read R27 and R33.

You must have at least 8" of bumper on each side of the exterior frame vertices.

Bumpers must be supported by the structure of the robot, and rigidly attached at each end.

Do you really think you can rigidly attach 2 1/2" of pool noodle to the structure of your robot?

Re: Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector
 

OK, I understand. As I said, I originally interpreted the rule as requiring the hard parts to be 8", but after reading the Q&A and (R28) I re-thought my interpretation. I now see that I should have also re-read (R27). That makes it all clear.

(By the way, our bumpers do comply, I was just trying to understand the intent, not "lawyer" the rules". I hate that term by the way, everyone need to understand the rules in all their nuance, because the GDC rarely answers a question in a way that removes doubt or adds much to clarity.