Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

And a crazy ton of effort goes into car bumpers. Between FMVSS standards, and the implications with regards to crash, energy transfer, Insurance ratings, air bag impact sensors, airflow, styling, license plate brackets, fit and finsh, getting paint to match and faid at the same rate, pedestrian impact, low speed impact (Canadian, European, and US standards), moderate speed impact, high speed impact, manufacturability, materials, thermal expansion effects.... Bumpers have come a long way, and are designed to do a lot more than people often realize.

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

Whatever realworld effort is going into bumper design, the only chance we get to shine is with changing them red for blue and attachment to a robot frame. If FIRST were to entertain some engineering-like requests for bumper design from us, THAT might be un-boring. I mean, a case of Great Stuff in a ripstop nylon sack? Or design a game during which the required on-board accelerometer (from air bags?) registers a minimum value because that robot's bumper is so good at absorbing collision energy. A demolition derby-style game sure would have crowd appeal, not to mention that most of the teams' kids really only want to build a battlebot anyways. And I KNOW when this will happen too. The year I get to the pool supply store in September for their pool-noodle closeout, buy a bunch, will be the big bumper innovation year for FIRST. Yahooooooooo! Can't wait.

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

As a likely "guilty party" in this discussion, I would be disappointed to see our entire appendage (or anybody else's) banned because it partially obscured one of four sets of team numbers for the portions of the match when it was deployed. That would effectively ban appendages from deploying anywhere near the bumper zone. Almost any appendage that is able to manipulate the bridge will obscure somebody's view of the bumper numbers at some point. This was never an issue with the large roller claws in Logomotion, and I expect that there will be a lot of obscured team numbers this year as well.

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

Maybe this would be a good time to start a 3 second rule or is it 5 seconds in the key in basketball. Not saying a ref would look for it specifically but if they notice a bumper obscured they could point at bot and count to five. Guess they would have to come up with a penalty too.

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

No, no, no...
Let's stop and think about the spirit of this rule. The goal of the rule is for easy identification of your robot on the field. Was this rule intended to create a specific design constraint? No. It's intended to ensure that all bumpers have numbering that is easy to read. Is anyone going to exploit this as a strategy to get more points? No.

If you have an appendage that stays down during the entire match, it's appropriate to put the number where it won't be obscured - and I think most teams will do that naturally. If you've got something like this, then you do what you can and don't worry about it.

But please, let's not start talking about penalties and countdowns. The next thing you know, we'll be arguing about whether the GDC should require a certain buffer space for team numbers, so that 4-digit teams are not at a disadvantage to 2-digit teams. Or what happens if two robots get into a pushing contest, and one of their numbers is obscured? Who gets penalized? Is this where [G44] applies?

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

I was waiting for Tristan to post a page long explanation, but given that hasn't happened, here's my attempt.

I think the important point is that inverted, fragmented, and upside down are all static. They don't change over time. Obscured has both a static and a dynamic definition. The simplest answer is that the GDC meant the static definition. How could you obscure a bumper number statically? Use roman numerals, binary, cyrillic, powers of 2, a non-numeric font (windings), etc.


Given the explicit answer above, I think that extrapolating an implicit illegality based on some definitions of obscure isn't correct.

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

Why not practice engineering skills by applying them to bumpers?
I know our team isn't the only one that can change bumpers this way!

Our team certainly did, and can change bumpers in about 2.5 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te7Pk...maSzJM9SL9n51D

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

Seems like the GDC has confirmed the definition of "obscured" in the answer below as the static sense.

Q. We are deciding to use a square U frame. So, we have to split the 4th bumper into 2 sections. Because of this, we can't decide how to place "3490" on our Bumper. Should we place the 4 numbers on 1 side, or should we split 34 and 90 across the Bumper. R35 doesn't explain how to handle this situation. FRC3490 2012-01-13
A. Per [R35] team numbers must be "clearly visible from a distance of not less than 100 ft, so that judges, referees, and announcers can easily identify competing Robots." Thus they may not be obscured in any way (disconnected, out of order, rotated, upside-down, mirror imaged, etc).

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

Could somebody ask Q&A, " When an appendage is deployed is it permissable to obscure, as in not make clearly visible, team numbers that are on the bumpers?" I really would like to know if i just don't get it. I went thru the last six pages of photos and most of the videos and it appears to me that the majority of teams have built to this constraint(not to block numbers).

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

I don't think it was building to that constraint (which i don't believe is a constraint), rather than just choosing to not do a drop down pickup or similar.

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

The following question has been posted on Q&A:

"If one of the four sets of team numbers is temporarily covered by a deployed appendage, is that a violation of <R35>?"

(edit: somehow, the "<R35>" got stripped off the version that shows in Q&A. Hope that doesn't cause them too much confusion)

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

This question has already been asked, granted it wasn't specific about the team numbers but its pretty straight forward to me. In another question they even defined what they meant by "obscured" and it is in the static sense. In that your numbers are a standard type font that aren't upside down or mirrored or split between 2 8 inch sections of bumper or backwards.

:deadhorse:

Re: Obscured bumper numbers?
 

I was looking at it all wrong. Q&A says it is ok to block the numbers. Now, what is teporarily? how many teams wil add a larger collection device now.