Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

What basketball traditions do you think we'll see performed this year at FIRST events?

Will teams cut the net?

Will teams have one shining moment in the championship highlight reel?

Will the drivers of a dump-bot go crazy after a monster dunk?

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I hope that at least one #1 Seed this year uses this as inspiration for when they make their pick.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

YES! cut the net, one for each member of the winning ::safety:: alliance.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Cutting the net... Please don't do that. The field has to go to another event. They really want those nets intact, too!

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Yeah I was gonna say, I could see it on Einstein but not at regionals

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I want to see a drive team do this.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

while I see your point, nets are extremely cheap and super simple to replace. It's not like we're talking about shattering the backboard and giving pieces of those away. lol

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

The most valuable thing in FIRST is time and as a Field Supervisor I really would not be in the mood to unnecessarily waste fixing something that I shouldn't have repaired in the first place. Especially when there is so much else to do to get the event running. Please don't cut the nets.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

The nets on the competition field aren't typical nets, are they? They've got that extended "funnel" connection to the alliance wall hole and ball detector.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Yes they are. They're $5 apiece.
http://www.competitiveedgeproducts.c...il.aspx?ID=617
http://www.buylifetime.com/products/blt/pid-0790.aspx

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If a $5 net and the five minutes to replace a net are the only arguments against cutting them, I'm completely unswayed. I really do hope they let the winning alliance cut down the net.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Pretty sure the net gets separated from the chute prior to transporting the field anyways.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I noted that the net bottoms are connected to the clear plastic tunnels that lead the scored ball to the counter. I didn't examine to see if the connection there were as simple as the hoop to net connection is.

Anyway, perhaps we should be trying to inspire the basketball folks to do things the way we do at FIRST competitions.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Correct. The net stays attached to the hoop for transport between events. The current field setup guide says:

I think FIRST will frown on cutting the nets. I know the nets only cost $5 but if the winning alliance cuts off 3 nets at every event, thats over $1000 in replacement nets.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If anyone is really considering doing this, I suggest buying a net and bringing it to the Regional Field Supervisor. I would offer to install it after the award ceremony if a team wanted to cut it down in celebration. If he says yes, great. If he says no, there's no way I'd mess with the field.

I think a net could be a cool commemorative item for winning teams, but the ultimate focus must be on being respectful towards the field crew who worked so hard to ensure each student had a positive experience.

Just my $0.02

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

That's only 1/5 of what one robot at one competition pays to get in.

51 events
~45 robots per event
51*45 = ~2295 registered robots total (including multi-event robots)
2295*$5000= $11,475,000 total registration cost
$1000 for nets/$11,475,000 *100 (for %) total registration cost means:
Replacing the nets is roughly 0.087% of the total cost of robots attending competitions.

As for time, can you, being someone who volunteered to work hard for 2 days straight, not take another 10 minutes to fix the nets, so that the winning teams can enjoy a priceless experience, and be able to take another tangible piece of their victory home?


All this being said, I'd say why not?
-duke

P.S. If Nate Laverdure's calculations are correct, make that 0.0036%

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If a playing field isn't being sent on to another competition site, the cost of giving away a net is a sunk cost.

EDIT: Put another way-- why replace a net that won't be used in the next week?

My calculations (attached) tell me that implementing the 3-net-per-event giveaway scheme will require a total of 127 extra nets (beyond the minimum number already purchased). Assuming $5/net, this will cost $635.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I really do hope that people plan on asking before cutting. It doesn't matter how you rationalize it - cost wise, tradition wise - you're not the one who has to replace it, so it really isn't your choice.

To clarify: I think it'd be awesome if it's allowed, and if I was on the drive team this year I'd probably beg. If it weren't for the potential jinx, I'd have a replacement net ready to go in the pit!

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If the cost is really that big of a deal, let teams that cut down a net donate towards a replacement.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

How about this - teams can bring net(s) to the competition (make sure they're identical!) to replace those that they, or other teams, would cut down. I think it would be a great moment for the teams involved.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If fortunate enough to win the competition, teams would pay the event for on-hand replacements and install the nets for the staff. Who is hurting now?

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I volunteer at a regional each year and work for 3.5 days straight. The end goal of the regional (other than a successful competition) is to provide the greatest experience to the teams, but why do that at an extra expense to FIRST? Sure, teams pay a $5000 entry fee but that covers more costs than just $5 nets. I understand that cutting nets is a basketball tradition and the field nets would be a great low cost souvenir for the winning teams.

Dan-o's suggestion of buying a matching net and bringing to the event may be the best route if any team really wants to pursue this. If the nets were available and it were up to me, I would allow it... but its not up to me. Ultimately its FIRST's decision. The fields have already been shipped with all their spare parts. I doubt FIRST planned for teams to cut the nets so there probably isn't a full set of new nets included for each event.

Nate,
My quick calculation was based on simply the 69 events (not including Championship) listed on the FRC events page. 69x3x$5 = $1,035. I understand your reasoning and calculations regarding the number of field sets and concurrent events. That being said, you didn't account for the 4 practice fields at Championship or if the division winners would want to cut their nets. It doesn't make much of a difference in the end result but I'd hate to see your calculation be incorrect.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Isn't the ultimate focus on the event attendees, and inspiring students?

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

It's still the staff that's hurting, and here's why:

They have to pack the field up.

What usually happens at an event is that as soon as the final match is over, the staff starts preparing for takedown--maybe some electronics come back to the scorer's table, maybe some zipties get cut, maybe the packing manual comes out. As soon as the awards ceremony is over, while teams are taking pictures on the field (if it's safe do do so), the electronics come down and a lot of the "minor" stuff like the field side shields come down, then one of the alliance stations comes down. Then the other, and whatever's in the middle of the field. Then the field gets packed up (and if the field crew is lucky, the practice field is already stowed and they've got lots of help). If the field crew is really, really, good and the event ends on time, they're out by 6-7 PM. Teams are out by 5-6, usually.

Every time the net has to be replaced due to a team cutting it down, that's time that the field crew has to wait. At 3 nets/event (and that's if the RCA, EI, RAS, and maybe other random teams DON'T cut down a net), and if you figure that it takes 5 minutes per net to cut down and replace, not counting getting the ladder, that's 15 minutes that the field teardown has to wait before getting going on part X of the field, given that teams don't do the cutdown/replace all at once.

As a volunteer, I realize that teams want to celebrate. But doggone it, I want to get home after being at the venue for three days dealing with all the issues that crop up! (And for those who don't know: the volunteers' day at the venue is longer than yours. They're usually in the building a half-hour to hour before you are, depending on position.) I'm really not going to enjoy it if team A asks to cut down the net (and is prepared to replace it) and then team B sees team A and thinks "hey, great idea!" and starts cutting down another one, because now, not only do I have to get a net replaced that I hadn't planned on (or my field's next FTA does), but maybe teams C, D, and E see team B cutting down the net, and team A having cut one down, and decide "great idea, let's do it!" Then you get the "If they're allowed to do it, why are we not?" discussion.

IF you want to cut down the net, talk to the FTA/Field Supervisor first. Preferably as soon as possible on Saturday. That way, they can plan somewhat on how to deal with it. And if they say no, then just accept that and move on.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

After incorporating these changes:

• With 3 nets given to each winning alliance, 153 extra nets ($765) are required.
• With 1 net/alliance, 37 extra nets ($185) are required.

You forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags :)

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

This is much ado about nothing. It doesn't even take 5 minutes to swap a net. It takes 30 seconds. Everyone is arguing about a problem that doesn't exist.

Besides, the people who get the field at the next event are the ones who will need to assess the nets and determine if they need replacing.

All told the only cost is the price of the net. There is no cost in time and labor.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

30 seconds, and a net, per net. You're assuming that once one team does it, the rest don't decide to. See the run on tubes at the 2007 Championship and the trouble the field crew had keeping people out of the orbit ball supply after 2009's L.A. Regional when one team was allowed to take some home (and they had a good reason that the rest of the teams didn't--namely, genuine orbit balls were unobtanium at home for all time).

You're also moving the replace time into field setup--while this might not have any impact on overall time to set up, the FTA there (wherever "there" happens to be) isn't going to be terribly happy about having to replace the nets. Even with advance notice from the previous FTA

If a team wanted to bring their own net, bring it to the field, and cut it down, fine--if they talk to the FTA/Field Supervisor about it first. If you don't talk to them, I would advise NOT cutting down a net.



I was actually thinking that the chalk toss might be a better tradition to do in a FIRST event. Something about the field markings get chalked down anyway before taping... It's just that nobody sees that except the setup crew.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Tough call. In the moments afterward it's going to be hard not to want too.

Ask your FTA. Give them 5 bucks. Amirite?

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This is stupid.

If we win an event and can take the net, I'll mail FIRST $5 and install a new net myself.

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The nets are a part of the field. Has it ever been ok to vandalize the field in the name of a 'winning tradition'? I'm asking, not being sarcastic.

What comes to mind is the rush for the leftover tubes at CHPs a few years back and what a nightmare that was. Cutting the nets could be pretty interesting regarding crowd control. Then what would the damage costs be? Again, I'm just asking.

Alternate idea, buy a toy hoop and cut the net. You absorb the costs and have a net as a symbol that you can use for display purposes with your trophy and medals. Brand it in advance and use it as an incentive to be able to cut it at your event(s).

Jane

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Maybe any team that believes they have a shot of winning an event can bring their own replacement net and replace the cut net themselves once the moment has passed?

I wouldn't be opposed to spending the time to replace a net if my team were given the chance to cut down the net on the field that they just won on.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Hate to spoil the fun, but they have already told us during volunteer training this year specifically that no teams are allowed to cut the net down after the event. Even if they offer replacements or such. As Jane said, they are part of the field and regardless of tradition, they belong to FIRST.
At least that's what they have told us in training thus far.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Yes. I'm not much for basketball, but judging by the videos people have posted it is a time honored tradition to "cut the net" if you win. A little bit of googling tells you that championship teams do this in every basketball league from high school through the NBA. Clearly it is okay by them.

How is it interesting crowd control? It's the winning teams, it isn't saying "anyone with two feet come down and take a net!" Granted basketball teams are a lot small than your typical basketball team, so have someone cut it down and distribute the strings later. For some of the really big teams you might even have to cut the strings up! :ahh:

To me, cutting a net out of toy would be like carrying around a Stanley Cup I made out of cardboard and aluminum foil. Sure it looks the part... but was it there? No, and being there was part of what made it special. I still have my alliance captain bib from when my team won our first regional, and if there were nets they'd let us keep they would've been even better mementos.

Just my 2 cents. ($5?)

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Cutting the net down is a BASKETBALL tradition. We are not playing basketball this year, we are playing a game based on basketball called Rebound Rumble.

Why do we need to bring a tradition from a different sport into FRC? Why don't we come up with something more creative to celebrate than copying something else. We just design and built robots in 6 weeks to play this game I think we can come up with something better that cutting down the nets.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Who is on the court when a member cuts the net at a game? Or... back that up - who rushes the court when a team member cuts the net at a game? There would be 3 nets and 3 teams, minimal, on the field.

From what I've seen from a few regionals, they are still in need for volunteers to help with their events. Will volunteers be in place and be available to help with the passion, excitement, and craziness that could stem from cutting the nets? What happens to the nets on the other side of the field? Do those get cut (trashed), too? Who controls that and how? And while teams are cutting their nets, are they going to be doing a victory dance on the bridges, too?

I've had a little experience with crowd control during regionals and I'm not a fan of large groups of people who don't respect crowd control and create potentially dangerous situations because of what they want to do when they want to do it, individually, and, as a crowd.

Jane

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I do not know how some individuals would take this gesture of "cutting the net off". It has been made clear to me that FIRST is not like competitive sports in the past and while the tradition sounds fine, it might be deemed as offensive to some.

I personally would see it as very disrespectful; it just sounds like rubbing salt into the wound. It might be because I hate losing, but that's just me.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

You'd have to announce that it was only for the winning teams. Even then, you'd get the "I won X, can I cut down the net?".

Little story that I referred to earlier: At the 2009 L.A. Regional, the field crew had packed up the unused (and some used) orbit balls into bags before the awards ceremonies; the orbit balls would go into the trailer with the field. A couple of people came and asked if they could have one, to which the answer was "nope, they're going to the next event". But then a team came over with a "higher-up", who said that we should give them some of the orbit balls from the field due to them having exactly zero where they were from. OK, so we open up the bags to give them a few... and then came the "why do they get them?" and "I want one!" from other teams. That was not fun to control.

That's what I'm afraid of for any net-cutting. And that's probably why FIRST has told their volunteers not to allow it.

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Guess we better cancel that whole awards ceremony thing then. No celebrating allowed!

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It's almost upsetting how little appreciation the average CD member has towards competitive athletics. The program is modeled after sports for a reason, and this game is directly mimicking a particular sport. To see students, alumni, and mentors characterizing celebrations as "vandalism" and that following traditions is unimaginative is depressing.

Perhaps we should get rid of the award presentations, since they're keeping volunteers at the arena longer, too?

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As a Boston sports fan, I have a healthy respect for unruly crowds too. I agree with you, all of those people on the field rioting like Vancouver last summer is probably not a good thing. Don't teams already come onto the field at the end to take pictures on the field? I know when we won us and our alliance partners were the last people out the door. (sorry field crew! :o)

I think the crowd control questions are ones I can't answer -- FIRST would have to. And since it seems like they've already thought about this and decided they'd rather not let teams take the nets, that's what the official answer will be.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Sean,

If you are referring to some of my comments in your post, I'd like to clarify a couple of things:

1. I can't accept that a piece of the field is up for grabs. As far as I know, it never has been so why would it be now?

2. There aren't enough volunteers for some of the events. That was my point. It wasn't about staying longer. In the past, when I've done crowd control, I have been pulled from other positions to do it.

I won't comment any more in this thread. :)
Jane

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I have lots of appreciation for competitive athletics, I used to play lots of different sports in school, and continue to play them for fun now that I'm no longer in school. But that doesn't mean that FRC should copy the "big boys" and do what they do. Lets do something different and creative to celebrate our victories.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I would have to say that there are different types of celebrating. Some would get butt drunk to celebrate, some just smile. I am in no way calling the net cutting equivalent to getting drunk, but I am just trying to bring up the point that not all celebrations are equal. There are varying degrees.

I mean it was a celebration to scalp the heads of fallen enemies for many societies, others shrunk heads instead, or may be even cannibalism. Now, it would not be fine for me to go up to your robot and rip out the orange light to signify my dominance. Again, really has nothing to do with the net cutting, but people will interpret it differently.

I feel that the net cutting will not be handled correctly by teenagers. Not calling all teenagers bad, but it just takes one sour grape to put a bad image. What I imagine happening is a teen running around with the net. Sure, again, not calling celebration to be bad, but I have always found it disrespectful to celebrate wildly in front of your opponent. Constraint will be needed.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I agree with Eric. FIRST teams already have great traditions of their own which makes these competitions special for me. I'm sure teams will find a way to blend their traditions with this year's theme.

It's time to lighten the mood with a history lesson. Cutting down nets is a great basketball tradition usually attributed Everett Case, head coach of NC State after WWII. He brought the tradition to the collegiate level from his days as a high school head coach from Indiana.

Frankly, I'm more afraid that Michael Buffer's signature "Let's get ready to rumble!" pronouncement will be overused. It might be a good introduction for Einstein though.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Again, I can see both sides of this discussion have equal points of validity. However, as a huge basketball fan and former player, it would be extremely awesome to be able to cut down the net if we happened to win our regional. It's one of those things that I've seen done dozens and dozens of times and it gives me goosebumps every time I see it. Having this translated over to this years competition, at least in some symbolistic way, would be good enough for me, even if that doesn't mean we get to physically cut the nets ourselves.

If the traditional net cutting ritual is still not allowed for whatever reason that FIRST decides, providing a net with the trophy/banner for the teams of the winning alliance should be a good compromise. That way the respective team mentor(s) can cut up the net with their own team members on their own time (or decide to keep whole to display with their trophy) and not cause any of the issues people are concerned with. The winning team would donate the money for the ceremonial net, if needed, and then no time or actual field equipment was 'vandalized' and nobody can be 'offended' by a traditional sports ritual invading FIRST. Would anyone have an issue with this?

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I guess I just don't get it. How is cutting up a basketball net any sort of celebration?

Google pointed me to several explanations that it's a marker of the end of the season. With that in mind, I think it could be appropriate after the final match on Einstein. But intentionally destroying a piece of the FRC field doesn't seem to celebrate anything that I want to focus on in FIRST.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

In my mind this falls under,

"just because its tradition, doesn't mean its not stupid"

But I've never been one to watch sporting events

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I think this falls under a certain social criteria that if you are one of those people who don't get it's significance or it's appeal for others, no research or explanation from anyone else will fully explain it or justify it for you. Certain cultures have traditions that they enjoy and/or feel strongly about that if you are not a part of that culture will feel foreign and confusing to you. This is just one of those traditions in the basketball/sports culture. If you don't consider yourself a part of that culture, it's very unlikely you'll ever understand or appreciate it. That's fine, but don't belittle the tradition just because you don't appreciate it, personally.

Simply put, people that do get it probably want to be able to translate the tradition over to this year's game in some way, even if it's adjusted to fit into what FIRST deems appropriate for the field equipment and post victory awards ceremony.

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This might be one for Q and A or the game committee to release a statement regarding the matter, Field crews should not be put in the position of having to play traffic cop. Getting them chewed out because they didn't protect the nets from teams is unfair to them and they don't deserve to be ripped apart by over-exuberant teams who want a souvenir either.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

It's a trophy. A part of the actual field of play where you were victorious. Much like when a golfer gets a hole-in-one, they keep the ball and frame it.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

When is anything in FIRST ever just 5 minutes (except a timeout). Even taking pictures on the field with the three winning alliances takes about 30-45 minutes, all told.

Also, from the videos I have seen, they are having each player on the team cut a piece out of the net. at a minute per student, that can still take almost an hour per alliance, even for only moderately large teams. I'd rather see each of the six teams that win a Championship qualifying award get their choice of a single new or used game piece, but not part of the field. Get the ball signed by the MC and head Ref, and call it good. That would be a better trophy than a piece of string cut from a net, IMHO.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Most basketball teams drape the cut down net over the trophy in their trophy case. It's part of the trophy for them.

I feel like this is a great basketball tradition which FIRST is ignoring.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Official events can do as FIRST pleases.

I will say that at the end of our offseason event in October, the coaches/captains of the winning alliance will be invited to "cut down" the nets and take them home. Once the nets are in the teams' possession, they can do with them as they please.

I think the confusion comes from the term "cutting the net" - it is not cut into tiny pieces, it is removed from the hoop to be taken home as a trophy. Not an act of vandalism, just a souvenir of a very special achievement.

Edit: What Alan said.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I appreciate your attempt to enlighten me, but it's just confusing me. A golfer doesn't take the hole home. He saves the ball that he provided. He certainly doesn't dig up the green around the hole so that nobody else can use it!

I've done some more research, and it looks like I had the wrong idea about what "cutting the net" actually means. I started out thinking it was all about destruction, but it turns out it's about distributing pieces of it to team members. With that as the emphasis, I can see why people would argue for it.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Like I said in my previous post we are not playing BASKETBALL we are playing REBOUND RUMBLE a FRC game based on basketball. Lets do something different to celebrate.

I love basketball and I play it as often as I can but that doesn't mean that I want to bring it into what I do in FRC.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

The point is you keep something from the experience. Every sport has it's own tradition. In golf, you obviously can't keep the green, so you keep the ball.

In hunting, you keep the antlers (or the entire head, or whatever).

Baseball players like to keep their homerun balls.

For whatever reason, the tradition in basketball is to keep the nets.

For those who aren't familiar with the tradition, here are a couple of links on the subject: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_the_tradition_of_cutting_down_the_nets_sta rt
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/84156

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Over 50 posts about a $5 net? I don't want to see the discussions about dumping Gatoraid field coaches if we have a football game next year..."But there are children in Africa dying of dehydration and your wasting all that liquid!"

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

It won't be football! It will be an FRC game based on football so we shouldn't talk about football. :rolleyes:

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

even timeouts aren't 5, thet're 6! :)

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Alan it is confusing to me why anyone would want to learn Kilngon :)

It's not vandalism or to much celebrating it's just a tradition in amature basketball. I don't see the big trouble with it and let's please not argue about $20.00 worth of nets.


Now I can see some validity in the volunteer difficulties.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

In an ideal world, the teams are invited to cut down the nets.

Also in this ideal world, I get all the time I want to build the robot, and volunteers don't have to deal with teams/students that don't cooperate with the policy set forth.

In this ideal world, it also rains Mountain Dew during build season. Delicious!

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I deffinately think that we wold love to have one in our trophy case. Plus i know from nationals last year they had tons of tubes left over and were practically throwing them away, so i dont see why they wouldn.t let us cut the net.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Ignoring the net situation, we better be doing this during finals.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I know SVR plays, or at least used to play, that song during finalist alliance introductions. Personally, I think every regional should, and have tried to convince the St. Louis DJ to do so...

Also, I know that I don't speak for everyone, but as a volunteer I certainly wouldn't mind waiting a couple minutes (and there's usually at least that much downtime anyway) if it meant that teams would get a unique trophy for their achievements.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

sticky

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If it really comes down to it, and we're fortunate enough to win something this year, I'll personally buy a net and wrap it around the trophy. I don't want to step on anyone's toes after the whole competition is over and everyone is tired.

Also, nothing would be cooler than doing some high-energy introductions of the drive team on Einstein. It be almost as cool as just playing the matches quickly instead of breaking up the pacing with speeches...

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

You mean like they do at Ramp Riot.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

This type of atmopshere is what we aim for during our introductions in the finals at regionals in Canada. Almost all my MCing has been based off sports intros. I hope I haven't offended anyone by bringing sports traditions into FIRST...

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

And that's why Canadian regionals are awesome. If you could channel Tommy Edwards or Ray Clay in those few minutes; it would be just amazing.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

You only offend people when you mention the Cowboys beating the Redskins. ;)

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Well everyone beats the Redskins nowadays.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

FIRST was designed to show how people in engineering can get the superstar treatment as well. Bright lights, big arena, loud music, crowds: that's why the regional structure exists/ed, and why Championship functions the way it does.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Honestly though, I think the real issue at hand is whether we want people running around a FIRST field with scissors or knives in their hands. Think of the safety issues people!

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

This may have already been suggested, and if so, I apologize.

How about we let the Chairman's Award winning team cut down a net. After all, that's what this competition is all about.

... Just a thought.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Because winning CA has nothing to do with basketball.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I would suggest that a team buys a net and gives it to the winners. No field damage that way. If the stars align, maybe the field crew will allow the winners to cut it down and have a replacement, or put it up and then cut it down.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

There are 4 nets after all. 3 for the alliance partners and 1 for the Chairman's winner.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

There's actually 8 nets, 4 per side of the field....

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I love our Canadian regionals. You've been the MC for every single one I've attended (2003-Present GTR, 2007-Present WAT). QtrFinals and Finals introductions are always among the highlights. Your knowledge of random team trivia is astounding. Its easy for the powerhouses, but you manage to find something positive to say even about the relatively unknown teams. (Nice to know I wasn't the only one to remember at 2011 GTREast that the last time 1075 was in the Finals at an official event was 2003, with 188 then too.)

In comparison to the Canadian regionals, my visit to CMP in 2010 was comparatively lackluster in the stadium-show appeal department. Kind of disappointing given the venue that is at their disposal.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Unfortunately, I only see killjoys against this idea. It's a great thing to have part of the field you won on, and as long as you buy a new one, It doesn't make a difference. the nets are attached to the return tubes with zip-ties. Also, someone mentioned taking the competition net down, putting up a replacement, and cutting that down. Are you kidding? That's like showing the winner the trophy, keeping it, and then giving them a picture of the trophy.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I wouldn't want to cut down the net on the side of the field that wasn't mine. I don't know about you.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I still think its a really good idea to cut the net. With that said.

Look logistically doing it at regionals I could see it in either direction. I think it would be a great moment, and I would love for it to happen, but at the same time from off-season expirence, I understand the need for things to move on. Especially with on-seasons having tighter schduels. Plus FIRST said no. I think they just need to make it more public to give the volunteers a break, and leave it at that.

I think this is best left for Einstein. It would really be a great moment for those teams making it so far, and it's only 3 nets for the entire season that need to be replaced. Plus the fields would be going back to HQ for tune-ups before off-seasons start, so it wouldn't be a huge inconvienence.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Unless you win the regional as Alliance #1 or Alliance #6, you will be shooting at both the red and the blue side for at least one set of elimination matches.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I'm referring to the final round. I'd want to cut down the net I used for the final round.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If we win an event, we'll cut a net down.

We'll bring some nets with us and replace them, no harm done.

Every regional we've been to in the last few years we've had the majority of our team help the regional tear down and pack the field. Usually we have more students doing this than all other teams combined at the event. I really don't see an issue.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Like I think has already been said, be sure you clear this with the FTA at the event before you do. The FTA is in charge of the field at the event and I assume this would be his call if FIRST hasn't said something officially.

P.S. Looking forward to "tearing down" fields with you in LA, CV and CMP!

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I'm not going to address the cutting down the nets thing because, well, as with most discussion on ChiefDelphi, it's become way more involved than it needs to be.

In terms of bringing basketball elements to the events, Rasheed Wallace is probably my favorite basketball player ever, but I'm hoping we won't see anything like this. ;)

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

We have been specifically instructed by FIRST HQ not to allow teams to cut down the nets.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

So this should theoretically put an end to the discussion right? The FTA's won't even get to make the calls at the competitions. Would it have been nice to do? Yes. I like Jane's idea that if you want to do it bring a toy basket ball hoop with you and cut that net down.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Alex first said this nearly 50 posts ago but we continued to beat the topic to death. Isn't that what we do here? It seems like no 'controversial' thread is complete until everyone gets a say.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I feel as though this net topic has been beat to death, even though everyone should get a say.

Although there is no feeling like cutting down the net, I think having teams bring their practice balls and signing them might be just as good. If teams had their drive teams sign three balls (one for each team) I feel like they would have a memory of the regional and who they worked with to win.

I feel like this would be easier because each team should have enough to give two away and keep one as their own.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I agree 100%,

It seems the intent of the OP was not to promote one possible tradition. It was to open up a discussion on how to have a little fun with the basketball pedigree of this years challenge by possibly incorporating one or more basketball themed traditions. The net idea may not be the best fit for this event, but that was not the only one suggested. If someone does not think the net idea (or one of the other ideas) was a good one, perhaps you could think of another.

The point would be to add a bit of interest and perhaps provide a souvenir for the teams. The idea of signed practice balls seems to be fairly good in that respect. It sounds like it allows for a bit of fun and ceremony, an extra souvenir for a trophy case for the winners, and should not cause any problems for the field crew.

Any more good ideas?

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

How about shooting balls dead vertical as high as possible at the end of a match? Would be pretty amusing though who knows if a team would be willing to not shoot those at a basket at the end of a match!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb9kF...feature=relmfu
(1:58)

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I'd be curious to FIRSTers reactions to a high school/college basketball cheering atmosphere being brought to the competition. While the constant standing and noise of the Cameron Crazies or the jumping of the eRUPPtion zone might be over the top and not appropriate for a FIRST event, there are certainly other features that could be adopted. Coordinated reactions and movements, fight songs, and chants could all be very easily applied to FIRST teams.


PS. CAA basketball is better than your conference.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

We do some things like that.
One year our Spirit Leader (aka the Cheer Nazi) brought our team a cheer the Wilson Magnet basketball cheerleaders do. It's still listed on our webpage amongst the several cheers we do but we haven't done it in years and when we did use it it wasn't a good thing to behold. We have been thinking up other cheers to come up with that should suit us better.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

My experience with cheers:

Cheer must be less than or equal to three syllables, and very repeatable, so people get to recognize it, and remember it. For example, if you've ever been to a regional with 365 (MOE), they have an iconic cheer of "GO MOE". In 2010, we tried to match them with "Boom, Redshoot" after every goal, and it is the only successful cheer I have seen our team pull off. And this is even the year that we had a cheerleader on the team!

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

This was indeed my intent and there have been scattered responses with some great ideas. Although I've enjoyed reading the discussion about cutting the net, at some point I expected someone to call a timeout and pass (;)) it to the Game Q and A. Perhaps I missed someone saying they did.

It would be cool to see a regional pull off Taylor University's silent night tradition in some fashion.

To repeat myself, I really like the one shining moment tradition in the NCAA championship and I hope they at least play the song.

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

I thought the latest update decision/discussion should be added to this thread.

:)

Jane

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

Cool. Here's the important text:

Re: Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events
 

If FIRST says it's ok I guess I have no choice but to stand aside and let the teams do what they have to do.
Knock yourselves out.