Sounds like a judges question. Do it. Ask questions later

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

I like your thinking... That does seem like the best option though.

Just make sure when you put them off that it won't take an hour to take off and that it's not crucial to anything. Also I wouldn't point out the Q and A I posted lol. Just do it.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

What would the judges have to do with it?

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

I guess the GDC answer above says otherwise, but I gathered by some of the rules that a camera not used during the match could be considered a "non-functional decoration" and thus exempt from the cost and transmission rules. Specifically...

I would think a GoPro camera intended for PR only would fall within this rule.

Thus, it is possible to have a "decoration" that broadcasts a signal. And it is allowed to broadcast...
And......exempt from cost rules.

I guess the GDC thinks otherwise, though...

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

For those that don't understand this (rookie teams/students), there are 4 distinct groups of official competition people that will be evaluating either your team or your robot.

Judges: Blue polo shirts; they evaluate your team/robot for awards.
Safety Judges: Green polo shirts; they evaluate both for safety (and the safety awards).

Neither type of judge can make any call regarding legality. If one does, see the nearest inspector to double-check. (If the inspector says you're legal, and the judge still says you're illegal, call the LRI over.)

Refs: Striped shirts; they see whether you are following the rules on the field. This is one of the groups that could possibly determine that a camera is illegal; however, that call would depend on use in the competition and be confirmed by the inspectors. Refs only call game and tournament rules; some of the game and tournament rules involve passing inspection and showing up with a legal robot.

Inspectors: Standard volunteer shirt (other than the LRI's vest) and armed with clipboards. These guys are the ones that make sure your robot is legal to compete. These guys also love to see you early on Thursday morning so they can get you passing inspection faster. They make the call on robot rules.

This particular question is going to be an inspector's call, assuming the GDC doesn't weigh in soon (via Q&A--which hasn't been asked yet). (And then... the inspectors get to help enforce the GDC ruling.) Failure to point them to a ruling, whether in your favor or not, is not going to make the inspectors' job easier, or their ruling necessarily correct.



The biggest question, as pointed out earlier, is whether a camera that is not connected to the robot's power system and does not transmit wirelessly is considered to be a computing device, or a non-functional decoration (NFD), or both. If it's an NFD, cost does not apply ([R13]), but power ([R36]) and weight ([R03]) do, barring exceptions that aren't currently clear, obvious, or otherwise spelled out so a reasonably astute observer can find them. If it's a computing device, cost and weight apply, but power does not. It's an interesting question.

As the rules stand right now, barring a Q&A response or Team Update to the contrary, I would call a camera of this type a NFD, which makes it subject to the power rules, and therefore illegal. However, if it is also considered to be a computing device (by the GDC), then it is an NFD computing device, which can utilize its own power source and still be exempted from cost rules, making it legal.

Note: I am not on the GDC, not familiar with their intent, and not official in any way, shape, or form. Hence my calling this both ways--call it playing GDC advocate and PR advocate at the same time.

If I could use precedent here, I'd say legal due to similar setups--but I could just as easily say that it would have to get power from the robot under a different set of conditions. Again, very interesting and challenging question.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

These responses bother me. The GDC has made a ruling (albiet only towards the cost accounting).

While I agree that you should do it. I would also point it out directly to the inspector and give him a copy of the GDC ruling as well as a cost accounting of the device on the BoM.

We're here to show Gracious Professionalism. As a professional I would not try and knowingly 'hide' something that may not fit the specs (FIRST rules) I have been given.

JM(NS)HO.

P.S. I love this idea and may try it get it through inspection (pointed out as above) at GSR.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

Everyone,
Cameras used to record Point of View (POV) seem to fit best under non-functional decorations except for the those that have an integral battery. An inspector will evaluate the camera at every event under the safety guidelines and all other robot rules. There are a few guidelines we use when checking all cameras at all events prior to authorizing their use.
1. If the camera derives power from the robot battery, all electrical rules must be followed. (wire gauge, breakers, insulation, etc.)
2. If the camera contains a battery, and it is of a type that could cause fire or chemical spills if damaged during a match, it must be sufficiently protected.
3. The camera, it's battery and lens must be mounted securely to the robot frame in such a way that it will not become detached and/or pose a hazard to participants. Wire ties do not constitute a secure attachment.
4. The robot must be weighed and sized with the camera and accessories in place.
5. The camera will be required to go through inspection at each event in which the robot is entered and the camera is used.
6. It is understood that such a camera is merely to record POV video and will not be used for any reason other than entertainment purposes.
7. In all cases, if the camera is capable of transmitting wirelessly, even if not enabled, you need to show proof that it was pre-approved by FIRST Engineering. See R67, and it will need to be checked for interference at each event.
Be sure to check the entire manual for any rule that may apply in addition to the robot rules.
To answer another question, a camera will not be considered a computing device regardless of the type of media used to record video and/or audio. Those with integral batteries will inspected on a case by case basis at every event.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

Ok, a few details about the go pro camera:
-It costs about $200
-It is not capable of transmitting wirelessly unless you buy a separate accessory that is not available yet.
-It does have a internal lithium ion battery.
-The battery and camera are protected with a heavy duty case. (Made to be a rugged helmet camera.) The only way the battery or camera could cause damage was if this was in a robot wars competition and it got cut in half.
-It will be attached securely.

Cost and weight wise it should not affect our team.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

That is yet to be determined. Your definition of not causing or receiving damage is bound to be different than an inspector. We are looking for things based on our experience and collectively we have seen an things that would curl your hair.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

... Of that I have no doubt.

People, remember that the inspectors are trying to get your robot onto the field ... safely.

Argue your positions quietly and calmly. If you still disagree ask for the LRI. Be prepared to modify your robot should the LRI disagree with you.

This is supposed to be a fun, inspirational and enjoyable event.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

And if he does disagree: go behind his back and lawyer up for later.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

NO. You do not do this.

If you don't like an inspector's decision, call the LRI over. If you don't like the LRI's decision, then you just have to deal with it. The only way to change it is to convince either the LRI or the FTA to call HQ. And you're only going to be able to do that if you can raise reasonable doubt in either of their minds.

If you take an illegal robot onto the field, the refs can call you for it; it's worth a red card.

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

I didn't know the rules were legally binding. :confused: :D

Re: Can we use a gopro helmet camera?
 

If the inspectors dont agree, them I will explain my point, if they still dont, then I will take it off. This isnt that big of a deal. I agree that "This is supposed to be a fun, inspirational and enjoyable event." I dont want to make a big deal out of a little camera that is not crucial.