Chief Delphi - Dean's List Winner

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Re: Dean's List Winner

So how about we look at this a different way:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing (Post 1137056)

I'm agreeing with you in that the Dean's List should be about the future leaders of FIRST and those who have brought the values of FIRST and FRC to their school and community, not a stunt to give Juniors a 1-up in college admissions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostmachine360 (Post 1137043)

Now, FIRST has something that could become world-renown past our own community, and set our best students apart from the rest. While I think that the Dean's List award this year will exhibit some students that are truly the embodiment of FIRST, the award isn't supposed to be a publicity stunt.

I would not call this a "publicity stunt" because I doubt this does much to publicize FIRST.

Also, I'm not entirely certain why so many people are bashing something that could possibly be the change between a student getting in or getting rejected from a college (I imagine that the award might help justify a lower GPA or a shorter list of extra curriculars). Is it really that bad that FIRST wants to help out the students involved?

Once again, honor is great and most people love having their ego's inflated/stroked/brought into existance, but that's pretty much all that does for a senior. It actually helps out a junior. Functionality over feelings?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebarker (Post 1137273)

Clarified what ?
In many, but not all, in many cases the senior year is where the student really stands out in how well they "get FIRST" and it is easier to discern and make those recommendation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostmachine360 (Post 1137043)

And if it turns out to be that way, I don't think they'll ever be able to use the 2012 FIRST Dean's List finalists & winners and later receipients to their true potential to change this organization for the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing (Post 1137056)

I'm agreeing with you in that the Dean's List should be about the future leaders of FIRST and those who have brought the values of FIRST and FRC to their school and community...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1137378)

I was trying to find a compromise.
If FIRST is so focused on changing the culture
---
If they were to have a FIRST "Rising Star" award for juniors who show promise in engineering, and keep the DLA for students who exemplify all aspects of FIRST.

So, lets say your senior wins it. This role model of a student is of DL(F) caliber. Now they're gone and graduated. No more role model for your team. Maybe they'll come back to mentor, but now they're a mentor. As a mentor, its not as much about how you were as a student (which Dean's List recognizes) but who you are as a mentor (the Woodie Flowers award). I could probably write three paragraphs about why I don't think the honor really transfers, but I'll let people wrestle with that one on their own and move on.

Now lets say your junior wins it. The student will be around for another year to serve as an example for younger students and the rest of the team. Your students will see the kind of kid that FIRST considers to be pretty neat (especially compared to other students). In theory, this should breed more DL kids and WILL change some culture. Your future leaders are leading their fellow students on their team. Not wandering off to college or whatever their post-high school plans may be.

There are many ways to think about this (and I'm not asking you to agree and change your mind, but just to consider what I'm saying).

One last thing: I don't think FIRST has the time/money/volunteers/judges to split this award into two categories. And what if a team wants to submit a sophomore or a freshman?

EDIT: I don't assume seniors will leave FIRST, but when they graduate they should seriously have their education (be it in college or elsewhere) be their number one priority, not FIRST. I know students are supposed to do this in high school, but in college you are paying to ignore your studies if you chose do so.

Re: Dean's List Winner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS (Post 1137457)

So how about we look at this a different way:

I would not call this a "publicity stunt" because I doubt this does much to publicize FIRST.

Also, I'm not entirely certain why so many people are bashing something that could possibly be the change between a student getting in or getting rejected from a college (I imagine that the award might help justify a lower GPA or a shorter list of extra curriculars). Is it really that bad that FIRST wants to help out the students involved?

Once again, honor is great and most people love having their ego's inflated/stroked/brought into existance, but that's pretty much all that does for a senior. It actually helps out a junior. Functionality over feelings?

So, lets say your senior wins it. This role model of a student is of DL(F) caliber. Now they're gone and graduated. No more role model for your team. Maybe they'll come back to mentor, but now they're a mentor. As a mentor, its not as much about how you were as a student (which Dean's List recognizes) but who you are as a mentor (the Woodie Flowers award). I could probably write three paragraphs about why I don't think the honor really transfers, but I'll let people wrestle with that one on their own and move on.

Now lets say your junior wins it. The student will be around for another year to serve as an example for younger students and the rest of the team. Your students will see the kind of kid that FIRST considers to be pretty neat (especially compared to other students). In theory, this should breed more DL kids and WILL change some culture. Your future leaders are leading their fellow students on their team. Not wandering off to college or whatever their post-high school plans may be.

There are many ways to think about this (and I'm not asking you to agree and change your mind, but just to consider what I'm saying).

One last thing: I don't think FIRST has the time/money/volunteers/judges to split this award into two categories. And what if a team wants to submit a sophomore or a freshman?

I do see some of the points you bring up, and they are valid. Though, I don't agree that the senior won't still be a role model. I was inspired by all of the seniors who came before me, and I never let up on my goals to surpass them. I'm finally realizing those goals now. In the same way, If someone wins the Dean's List, they will not be forgotten. Everything they have done to deserve the award and how they acted will be remembered. The Junior would still be at the school and continue to be an influence, but even the senior would be a huge role model to those who he inspires.

Also, I don't think any viable Dean's List candidate would suddenly abandon FIRST and be forgotten, part of the criteria for judging is future plans for involvement in the FIRST community. If someone is a Dean's List winner, and all they do is stroke their ego and leave FIRST, they didn't deserve the award.

Re: Dean's List Winner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS (Post 1137457)

One last thing: I don't think FIRST has the time/money/volunteers/judges to split this award into two categories. And what if a team wants to submit a sophomore or a freshman?

To support this, I can tell you that we almost nominated a sophomore this year. In the end, we decided to wait and nominate her next year, in order to give two outstanding juniors a chance this year.

Re: Dean's List Winner

I personally have something against awards. I like how Dr. Richard Feynman puts it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f61KMw5zVhg