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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   Regional Competitions (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   2012-Greater Toronto Regional East (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104182)

akoscielski3 10-03-2012 14:41
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
wow 1114 and 2056 lost!!!!!!!!!!!????

CalTran 10-03-2012 14:42
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
And Semi Match 1 is a huge upset...wow, matching each other point for point, then pulling away with a balance. Finals here are going to be intense.

basicxman 10-03-2012 14:42
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by akoscielski3 (Post 1141738)
wow 1114 and 2056 lost!!!!!!!!!!!????
SF 1-1 up on YouTube, just processing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRHGO...ure=plpp_video

EDIT: Above YouTube link was changed due to an issue processing.

Cory 10-03-2012 14:51
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Q. (Post 1141669)
I saw the same thing and couldn't believe it.

If a team on your alliance has chosen to work with a team on the opposing alliance and go for the co-op balance, it is ridiculous to try and intentionally try and de-balance that bridge.

You have the right to say no and not participate, I don't believe you have the right to try and knock robots off the co-op bridge once they have balanced successfully.

If this continues at other events with other top ranked teams, it should be an interesting season.
This is quite possibly the worst display of sportsmanship I've ever witnessed in FIRST.

bduddy 10-03-2012 15:58
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Wow, this is a long wait for results! Has to have been 10 minutes... and in the finals, too!

Andrew Lawrence 10-03-2012 16:01
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
CONGRATULATIONS to 1114, 2056, and 1219!

EricH 10-03-2012 16:03
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 1141757)
Wow, this is a long wait for results! Has to have been 10 minutes... and in the finals, too!
There ought to have been an explanation. The closest I can come up with is they were checking video for a [G25], because it looked like someone came pretty close, but that can't be right under [T13]... Real-time scoring, plus a balanced bridge versus a non-balanced bridge, should have made it pretty obvious who won. (I have no knowledge of what they were doing, other than "reviewing the match".)

bduddy 10-03-2012 16:12
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1141760)
There ought to have been an explanation. The closest I can come up with is they were checking video for a [G25], because it looked like someone came pretty close, but that can't be right under [T13]... Real-time scoring, plus a balanced bridge versus a non-balanced bridge, should have made it pretty obvious who won. (I have no knowledge of what they were doing, other than "reviewing the match".)
I was thinking something similar. The only think I can think of is that there was contact, the refs discussed but couldn't ultimately agree on whether it was a [G25] or not, and they ultimately called up FIRST to check... And there definitely should have been an immediate explanation. Imagine if there had been a 10-minute review in football or something, and then they never explained what they were reviewing!

Racer26 10-03-2012 19:47
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
I can clear up the delay after F2.

As the MC was finishing the F2 intros, myself and at least one ref, and at least one robot inspector noticed that 1219 had added a tabletop vice and 2 bags of chain to their robot as ballast. They did not report this change to the inspectors, nor did they get reinspected afterward.

The inspection sheet with weights confirmed that they very well could have been overweight during that match.

The delay was while the LRI and several of the event organizers decided what to do about it.

Additionally, there was some debate over whether 2056 touched the blue bridge while the 188/610/3360 alliance was balancing, and how to call it. (techfoul, or techfoul+interfering with balancing)

Personally, I don't like how the calls played out, but I'm not sure the alternative is any better.

bduddy 10-03-2012 19:53
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 1141839)
I can clear up the delay after F2.

As the MC was finishing the F2 intros, myself and at least one ref, and at least one robot inspector noticed that 1219 had added a tabletop vice and 2 bags of chain to their robot as ballast. They did not report this change to the inspectors, nor did they get reinspected afterward.

The inspection sheet with weights confirmed that they very well could have been overweight during that match.

The delay was while the LRI and several of the event organizers decided what to do about it.

Additionally, there was some debate over whether 2056 touched the blue bridge while the 188/610/3360 alliance was balancing, and how to call it. (techfoul, or techfoul+interfering with balancing)

Personally, I don't like how the calls played out, but I'm not sure the alternative is any better.
So was the robot weighed after the match, or what? That should have cleared everything up, and I have no idea why they wouldn't have done that...

I don't remember any technical fouls ultimately being called in that match at all, but I could have been mistaken... are there any replays?

Racer26 10-03-2012 20:03
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
It was not weighed, and the techfoul was not called. Video of F2 should be available on youtube from @WatchFIRSTNow.

I don't know the full details of the decisions beyond that.

basicxman 10-03-2012 20:06
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 1141851)
It was not weighed, and the techfoul was not called. Video of F2 should be available on youtube from @WatchFIRSTNow.
Sure is, all 12 minutes of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3oej...1&feature=plcp

IIRC this is the only video YouTube has flagged as not viewable outside of Canada, we're going to get this fixed but for now you're stuck.

bduddy 10-03-2012 20:19
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy (Post 1141839)
As the MC was finishing the F2 intros, myself and at least one ref, and at least one robot inspector noticed that 1219 had added a tabletop vice and 2 bags of chain to their robot as ballast. They did not report this change to the inspectors, nor did they get reinspected afterward.
Aside from the possible weight issue, IMO this is a Red Card.
Quote:
[T03]

A team will only be allowed to participate in a Match and receive Qualification Points only if it has passed Inspection. If it is learned after the start of the Match that a team did not pass Inspection, the team’s entire Alliance will receive a Red Card for that Match.
Quote:
[T06]

At the time of Inspection, the Robot must be presented with all Mechanisms (including all Components of each Mechanism), configurations, and decorations that will be used on the Robot during the entire competition event. It is acceptable, however, for a Robot to play Matches with a subset of the Mechanisms that were present during Inspection. Only Mechanisms that were present during the Inspection may be added, removed or reconfigured between Matches. If Mechanisms are changed between Matches, the reconfigured Robot must still meet all Inspection criteria.
Quote:
[T10]

If a Robot is modified after it has passed Inspection, other than modifications described in [T06], that Robot must be re-Inspected.

EricH 10-03-2012 20:37
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 1141867)
Aside from the possible weight issue, IMO this is a Red Card.
The question is, how far back does the red card go? If they added it only for that last match, single red card. If it was added during quals, then that messes up all of the rankings. If it's added for elims, then that alliance is out in QFs (or whenever they added it).

It's not as easy as a single red card. That's why it's unclear whether the alternative is any better.

Racer26 10-03-2012 20:46
Re: 2012-Greater Toronto Regional East
 
I believe the change was made in semifinals, but I cant corroborate that. I also agree it should have been a red card for red in F2, according to the quoted rules, followed by a reinspection before F3.

I believe it was further complicated by the inspection station having already been packed away.


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