Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

That seems like a remarkably small space to fit a robot, worktable, storage, battery station, driver console, and chairman's displays/materials in. Could you elaborate on exactly how you guys fit so much into that space and help the rest of us out?

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

In response to "why are there so many kids in the pits" question, I can say from personal experience that the pits are the best place to be at competition. They are the place to be if you want to help fix the robot, learn more about the team, and generally benefit from the competition experience.

But I don't need to tell commenters about that. If you are a part of FRC, you understand that. What I would like to remind posters about is how demeaning being thrown out of the pits is.

You have worked for six weeks, putting your team above friends, social engagements and sometimes even school to build the robot that now lies broken before you. Now, an older and supposedly wiser member of the team yells at you to leave. Your commitment doesn't matter, or the fact that you could actually help. Only the fact that you are a Freshman and look like you getting in the way.

I know that there are safety issues, and that order in the pits must be maintained. I hope you realize that just because you are an indispensable member of the pit crew does not mean that everyone else should just go away.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

This is very true which is why I don't demand that any team member never be in the pit it's just that they shouldn't stay there for very long. Competition is far more than just working on the robot and in fact I hope my students know that they can work on the robot all they want when we are home in the shop but they get limited chances to meet other like minded people and to watch the robots actually compete. They also have many other ways that they can contribute to the team, and learn about engineering besides for working on our robot.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

You can actually work with your team in visiting the pits.

- Go in very small groups, taking turns with time limits. Then return to the stands or the meeting place. There are jobs like Scouting and Spirit that need attention. There are also jobs like helping with lunches and team errands.
- Have 2 people in charge of distributing giveaways go through the pits. That job can be swapped off with 2 more people, and so on.
- Tell the parents and guests of the team not to crowd around the pit and block the path of the robots, the Ambassadors, the Judges, and the FIRST folks.
- Each team can lend a hand with keeping the pits friendly, fun, and manageable by having a team plan and implementing it. No team needs to set up a party shop in the pits.

Jane

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

This was version #1 from last season. Version #2 this year is much more efficient.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

It's broken:(

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

I understand the allure of working in your team's pit. But I try to impress on all my students that we're here for and as a team, and we each have our own jobs. No matter how much you enjoy it or how much you've put in, hanging around the pit talking slows work on our robot down, impedes neighboring teams, and restricts traffic for everyone. It's also a drastically inappropriate use of your time if you're not the best person(s) for that job.

We're happy to rotate people, call students from the stands, and have observers if they're not impeding teams and/or volunteers. In the mean time, there's other work to be done. Before I spent so much time in our pit, I earned my place by visiting other teams, introducing ourselves, helping them and looking for solutions to our problems. Even now as the adult manager, I spend a lot of time with my alliance partners, scouters, and other teams. There's plenty of competition experience to be had everywhere.

With no offense towards anyone in particular, I have little patience for any attitude of "I deserve to be here" because I earned it or even because I know best. Part of inspiring students to STEM and other professional careers is teaching them to work on a team and appreciate the value of every position on it. Understand that if we're asking you to leave it's because you're impeding the performance or ourselves or others and because your time, for the current moment, could be better spend elsewhere.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

Your dropbox hates hotlinking. I'll attach your picture to this post for clarity.

If that's representative of your claim that you only use 29% of your pit for storage and robot, then I'm skeptical. If that's a 10' x 10' pit and those square on the corners are 18" squares, then it sure looks like you're already using nearly 30% of your pit space without a robot in there. And a robot with bumpers is going to take up about 10% of your pit space as it is. Basically, I'm skeptical of your claim that you can have 13-16 people fully contained in your pit and working productively on a robot.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

Perhaps he's talking about using 29% of the volume of the pit, not the floor area. Perhaps also the 13 students are stacked vertically in pairs to use the full 10' height.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

I'd like to suggest "Robot Escort" - kind of like a police escort.

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

Hmm, a new role for Robodox?

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

It is impossible. Assume that the average person takes up 1 square foot of space that leaves 5 square feet of non-human existence and you can barely fit a robot much less tools, the table, and have room to work (because 1 square foot is just standing room not moving around and actually working).

What I really can't stand is when people put so much in their pit for display, storage, and "cool factor" that the team members have to stand outside of their pit to work or have the robot sticking out the front.

There is no reason why a team would need more than 7 people in their pit. (4 drive team and 3 pit crew). If you trained your members properly there would be no need to have a judging reps because you pit and drive team should know your team inside and out.

If teams stayed on top of how many people they had in their pit area and the spill out effect that happens into the aisle. The pits would be a much safer, happier, quieter, and nice place to be for guests and sponsors.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

We have over 50 students on the team. The pit crew is just a few students with experts for components bought in when needed to work on problems. At Seattle last year the students came with a new pit crew member. The position is host/bouncer. He was host to any guests that came and a bouncer to keep our own team from filling the pit or aisles around our pit. By answering the questions that people had he allowed the pit crew to work undisturbed. The mentors stay out of the pit unless invited.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

Shortened for simplicity.

Coming from a vet like you KoKo, I completely agree. The goal of creating a competition based around science, learning and technology rivaling a sporting event brings with it some of the normal dramas and creates its own.

2 & 3 are the same old thing you get at any event. Falls on volunteers to be diligent but given the sheer masses sometimes, you're bailing water out of the titanic with a thimble. #4 is one of those things it's everyone's job to use common sense. #5 is one I still shake my head at. Even FTC level teams use carts and you can carry those bots one handed. As for #1, I guess that one is a failure of people to read event site rules.

I'll add to the list though voo voo zella horns :yikes: and over the top horns. Those things I'll happily stick in the mud.

Re: Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud
 

Yes, vehemently. There is never a need to yell anything.
That's more like it.
Teams should learn from this.
Seconded. Do we get to vote on it now?