Favorite FRC Game?
 

Just out of curiosity, what has been your favorite FRC game to watch being played? Even with only being finished with week 1 of Rebound Rumble, I have to say this has been my favorite. However, I'm a third year FRC member, so most of my experience involves Breakaway, Logomotion, and Rebound Rumble. So for those exposed to other games, which has been your favorite to watch, and why?

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Mine was the 2007 game: Rack'N'Roll. It was my 1st year and because of that I was put into more of a scouter role that I end up looking back as the best thing that could have happened for me. Because I was a scouter that whole year, I was able to watch every match for 2 regionals and our division at Atlanta(champs). Eventually I was able to actually scout an entire alliance every match, mainly because we had people designated for certain times to scout who wouldnt, but it allowed me to gain the nack for being able to distinguish the good from the bad from the amazing. Now, why the game was amazing? The rarity this year to see an autonomous score made that score so much more amazing, plus since it was my first year seeing a robot move and sometimes score all on its own both baffled and astounded me. Also the way you scored and how you could counter your opponent really made the game interesting, a kind of 3-D checkers if you will. But the main thing I love about this game more than any other is how it ended; seeing all the different ways teams lifted each other up or the last second climb onto an alliance partner's ramp made the last 10-15 seconds of the match 100x more exciting than the other 2 minutes before it. Until the team I am on competes, which is this week, I still am saying that that year is by far my favorite.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Hands down 2004 nothing is even close.

2 different size balls, 30" and 13".

Game object can be released by a good autonomous otherwise you wait 45 seconds.

Mobile and stationary goals.

Human player can directly score.

A bar to hang from as a finale.

No other game has offered as many design choices/tradeoffs and as varied play since. This was the last game where you had to truely make trade offs because with what we had at the time for motors/actuators and parts usage rules it was difficult to do it all.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

My first year was 2009, so my experience with FRC games is fairly limited. I have seen match footage of earlier games and I can say that my favorite game to watch has been Rebound Rumble. Compared to week 1 of previous years it's been a bit slower but seeing game pieces in constant motion and a very flashy finale makes even a slower start interesting. Logomotion wasn't bad, but I wasn't fond of the endgame drag race because it was over so quickly unless someone failed. Breakaway was cool to watch because rules and scoring were simple to follow (except DOGMA) and it was pretty cool to have such a drastically different robot. and style of play.

I can also say, from what I've seen, that Lunacy and Overdrive were the worst games to watch because of slow-paced game play and restricted robot movement (Lunacy) and redundant, simple robot actions (Overdrive).

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I joined FRC in the fall of 2010. That means I was in a Breakaway offseason, the Logomotion season, a Logomotion offseason, and this year's Rebound Rumble. From those three games, this year's Rebound Rumble has got to be my favorite. With the exciting gameplay, and fast start in week one, I think this game will only get better.

Plus, this game is very fun for spectators to watch. Even new people to FIRST see this kind of game, and want more.

I congratulate the GDC for making one of your best* games in FIRST history!

*Not including the game manual and lack of definitions

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

2000 has always been my favorite game.

However, Rebound Rumble might challenge it.

Finals match 1 at Kettering may have been the most exciting FIRST match I have ever witnessed. Absolutely incredible. My brother (who has never been to a FIRST competition before) was standing, cheering, and making exclamations (like, "wow!", "OMG!", "holy carp!", etc) during the final 30 seconds of that match. If a non-FIRSTer can get that excited about a match, that's a great thing.

My second point is that I found the qualifying matches to be doubly exciting this year. Not only do you have to worry about the win/loss, but you also have the coopertition bridge. Even in a blow-out, the match can be exciting down to the end because of the coopertition bridge. It really affected how I watched each match.

Congratulations to the GDC, this game is a big winner so far. We'll see if it holds up as the year goes on.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I've liked the unique games. Objects difficult to manipulate, shapes you wouldn't expect (anything other than balls).

I think 2007 was my favorite game, and 2003 is the year I'd want to try myself.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I have never met anyone who has agreed with me, but my favorite game was 2009 Lunacy. I loved the supercell end game, watching the different strategies of defending verses outscoring verses a combination of the 2. Mind you, this was my rookie year, the first year our team was established, I was a driver, and I got to watch HOT and the Thunderchickens at all of our tournaments.

From the archived videos, I really like the 2002 game as well...I love the Beatty Beast! (Go Flyers for helping them out! FRC#66)

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I have to agree. Rebound Rumble is by far the best FRC game I have ever had experience with. I have said it before, but the penalties seem to be set up in a way that allows a lot more options in drive train selection and robot form factor choices than previous years. In other words a pushing or blocking robot has less advantage. In addition there are significant trade offs that need to be made in design. For example, the advantage of some height on the shooter needs to be traded off against stability on the bridge or bump. And, cooperation and coopratition seems to be particularly strongly encouraged by the point system this year. Add to all of that the fact that it leverages a widely popular traditional sport that is easy for spectators to understand and it is a real winner. All in all a well thought out game that is challenging and fun to watch.

Of course this is also my first and only FRC challenge so I might be just a bit biased.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I liked the 2008 and 2010 games the best, and Breakaway just wouldn't have been Breakaway without 469's game breaker robot. I really liked the game from the beginning, but I really enjoyed the extra unintended challenge of dealing with a robot that could score balls continuously.

I don't like Rebound Rumble as much despite some exciting matches. The eliminations at Kettering hardly involved any interaction between alliances! No competition for balls, no defense, nothing. In autonomous mode we could get 36 points without the other alliance being able to do anything about it, so of course we tried for that. Some alliances at our event and others went for three robots on a bridge. That's 40 points that the other alliance almost can't interfere with! (although I hear at Alamo there was some strategy aimed at preventing a 3 robot bridge balance.) Shooting from the key in teleop insulates you from defense. How would you like a basketball game that was just free throws?

Most teams wouldn't bother crossing to the other side to retrieve balls because human players could throw them through the inbounding station in such a way that they would bounce over the barrier anyway.

Where is the robot-on-robot interaction? Sure, the game encourages a huge amount of teamwork within alliances, but at a cost of inter-alliance action.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I agree. There was something different about the 2v2 dynamic. Good human players were critical, but usually didn't change the outcome of a match. Robot design was so unique... I will always remember the ones that caught the balls in a big net right when the all fell. Unless my memory is foggy, there were a lot less penalties too.

I also vote for Triple Play in 2005. FIRST has not had a game since then which forced teams to battle for ownership of goals. Blue and Red could switch ownership of a goal 5 times in a match. It was so hard to keep track of score, which is what made the match so exciting. Unfortunately, I think the amount of defense in this game and the 15 lb. tetras 10 feet in the air caused a lot of robots to fall over.

Enter bumpers in 2006. FIRST would never be the same.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

2004 was my Rookie year and 2004 was one of our better bots 1368 ever made. Yes we could not hang at all but are autonomous was spot on 99.99% of the time with trigring the ball drop. and I do remember that we stole the big yellow ball RIGHT out of swamps arm! Too bad I cant find any video.

I will wait till saterday once Orlando is over to state my thoughts on Rebound Rumble

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I was fond of that game too... I wasn't fond of the "supercell lottery" but it was a good game otherwise

2008 would have been better if the IR sensors were more available and/or more robust... otherwise a good game

2011 was good other than the minibots, which I think undermined the rest of the game... good on paper, terrible in reality (they were at the least overvalued in the point system)

2000, 2004, 2005, and 2006 looked fun... wish I had seen them in person (I was in elementary/middle school then)

This year... time will tell... the game looks good so far.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

This one has a good chance to unseat my favorite from 2004 FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar. Witnessing the triple balance for the first time was the second coolest thing I've seen personally in FIRST. The top play goes to my favorite FIRST robot of all time 279's 2004 bot during the Buckeye quarterfinals getting ready to get on the bar and their opponent 378 was on the upper platform and jumped on top of them. 279 went anyways and took 378 with them. The place went nuts. 378 eventually fell off of the bar and 279 did it's clamshell flip triumphant for the moment (if memory serves me correctly they eventually fell to 378's alliance).
This game will also be hard pressed to beat 2006.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

This is my fourth year involved in FIRST and i can honestly say the games have either been as good or better with each year.
Rebound Rumble>Logomotion>=Breakaway>Lunacy>=Overdrive

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I liked 2008 a lot, and seem to be in the minority with that. Hybrid was relatively exciting, seeing how many lines a bot could cross or watching a team come very close to/barely knock a trackball off. It was really exciting to watch someone hurdle, and there was a plethora of high-speed collisions with the lap bots.


Logomotion was exciting to watch in the eliminations and in St. Louis, but the qualification matches were not so much.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

It's a tough choice for me, I've seen gameplay from many different games. Rebound Rumble is a very exciting game to watch and is currently my favorite. Logomotion is my least favorite. It was fun, but it was somewhat difficult for rookie teams, and too easy for Vet teams. A 7 seed made it to Einstein. Logomotion was very imbalanced, and the minibot challenge endgame was pure luck at times.

Breakaway was also very fun to watch and drive in. Lunacy was not very good, mainly because of the reliance of Human Players to score for many teams. It was okay though.

My second favorite game though is Aim High. The combination of Offensive and Defensive rounds, and how the game could hang on your autonomous was amazing.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I always feel like I'm the only one who really likes Triple Play... it might be because it was my first year and our robot was really good, but it's still my favorite. As for more recent games, I would have to go with Breakaway...

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

If you need help remembering, you may have been doing this too long.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

2006. This year has a chance to unseat it.

My order:
1) 2006
2) 2010
3) 2008
4) 2011
5) 2003
6) 2007
7) getting my fingernails removed by a belt sander
8) Putting a drill press through my eye
9) 2009

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Really? You consider that bad? Then you must have hated 2007 when an 8th seed won championship.

2003 above fingernail removal by belt sander! I'm surprised by that. I would have put those the other way.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

It was my first year, so I didn't have much to compare it with. I can tell objectively that by my current standards I wouldn't like the rules and gameplay, but I can't really tell if I'd have the visceral dislike that I ended up with for Lunacy. In terms of "how easy it was to play defense" vs "how very difficult the game task was" ratio, it probably ranks right near 2007, which I also disliked quite a bit.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I will wait for more than week 1 comps to finish to rank where 2012 will be placed.

1. 2004
2. 2005
3. 2002
4. 2009
5. 2008
6. 2010
7. 2011
8. 2007
9. 2006
10. 2003

2004 was the last year where robot didn't (for the most part) all look the same. This was because there was so many things a robot could do.
Nowadays there is generally only 1 or 2 things a robot can do to score so the robots all have the same look, which isn't as exciting to me.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I must say, and yes, I am biased because of it being my rookie year, but Breakaway was one of my favorite years. It was quite easy to explain to other people (Having gotten Lunacy explained to me and having to explain Logomotion in such a way that it seems more challenging than 'lift tube, hang tube, repeat'). On top of that, seeing the powerhouses such as 1986, 1114, 67, and 469 just sending balls into oblivion over the entire field solidly embeds 2010 in my mind. I suppose it does help as well that 2010 is the year we were Greater Kansas City finalists with 16 and 1625, and the #1 seed in Oklahoma and top offensive bot there too ;)

As far as this year goes, I think it still has time to appeal to me...it's starting at least...

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I find that interesting, as ive always had the opposite view.
Games where there are a whole bunch of tasks the robots are asked to do always turn me off... and they sure aren't very spectator friendly. Those games seem to look less like a global robotics competition and more like a local hobby event.

That being said, Lunacy was terrible, regardless of my statements above.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I plan on watching archived footage of past games, but my favorite aspects of 2012 are the fact that it's easily explained to non-FIRSTers, and the end game of the bridge. Watching it in qualifications was fun enough at Alamo, but seeing it in the finals had me on the absolute edge of my seat. Seeing the triple balance between 148, 922, and 2936 was absolutely amazing, so I can't wait to see what else is in store for other regionals/St. Louis.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Not sure about your point regarding a 7 seed on Einstein. An 8th seed not only reached Einstein, but won Einstein, in 2007.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I've been an FRC participant since 2009... The games change a lot based on level of play.

At the very top levels of competition, Breakaway was an absolutely brilliant game. Logomotion played well, but the way the pre-IRI scoring was set up, you basically didn't need to watch the first minute and a half of a good match. Lunacy was always more fun to play than to watch... and at the top level, robots finally began to outscore human players... but it certainly hasn't aged well for me.

When you get down to the weaker and earlier regionals, any game will look worse, but the best games are still somewhat worth watching. Logomotion probably did best in this category with the big, bright game pieces people would slowly score. Breakaway was fun to play but looked pretty bad. Lunacy was a mess.

I think this game has the potential to be better than Breakaway. I'm excited.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I'll echo the love for 2004. One of my favorite games.

But I'm shocked at the lack of hype for 2006. One of the best viewing games ever made. Simple or the audience to keep track of (only confusing aspect was the "scoring periods" and when the automatic score keeping didn't work), and incredibly fun to watch.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006cmp_f1m2

And, of course, the legendary 138-137 IFI SF1-2 match. The best match ever played in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtkW3V7IEGs



Semi-related to viewing, the most fun I've ever had participating in an event was 2007 Galileo. When Rack'N'Roll was played the style it was on Galileo that year, it was one heck of a game to play and watch. Pity Einstein didn't have a similar style.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

You can't forget about the mini bots from last year though. They provided a competitive fast paced end game that I thought really put 2011 over the top. Logomotion is one of the most exciting to watch.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Did you forget 2004, or do you really think it's that bad?

I feel like you have 2006 and 2009 reversed. Why did you dislike 2006 and why did you love 2009?

My opinion is that 2006 is one of the 3 best games ever (2004, 2006, 2000 being the candidates) and 2009 is in a dogfight for worst game ever with 2001 (from a spectator standpoint) and 2003.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

My top 3 favorites are 2003, 2008, and 2011.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I'm also a big 2003 fan. One completely new game piece, and TWO completely new playing surfaces. Can't ask for much more than that.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

To be honest my ranks of 4-8 are all really close and could be put anywhere in those 4 slots.

I don't like 2006 because I thought it was boring to watch. I know I am in the extreme minority here, but I don't think seeing 6 robots shoot balls into a giant vertical hoop is exciting, or that challenging, unlike this year which I think is very challenging.

I think everyone likes 2006 so much because it was the 1st year that teams were allowed to shoot something and I mean really shoot(2004 you could "shoot" something over the 10ft bar but no one really did that) something.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

[quote=Squeakypig;1139356]I have never met anyone who has agreed with me, but my favorite game was 2009 Lunacy. I loved the supercell end game, watching the different strategies of defending verses outscoring verses a combination of the 2. Mind you, this was my rookie year, the first year our team was established, I was a driver, and I got to watch HOT and the Thunderchickens at all of our tournaments.


I agree. I really enjoyed 2009 Lunacy. I enjoyed the high scoring and lack of control. I also really liked how important the human player was that year. This opinion might be influenced a little though because this was by far our best robot

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

1996: Hexagon Havoc.

To be honest, I really don't remember that much of it. But it provided my six-year-old mind with countless hours of inspiration. I drew robots in school, and planned strategies, and dreamed of the day I could compete in FRC. And although I've enjoyed most of the games since, Hexagon Havoc will always be special.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Definitively 2003 Stack Attack. It took forever to setup, but was awesome to watch.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

My Top 5:

-2006
-2009
-2000
-2004
-2003

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I was first introduced to FRC during 2009 when my cousin's team went to world championship and I watched them through a live webcast. At that time I didn't understand the game much, but I really got involved when breakaway rolled around. Even though I was only 13, I went to my sister's team (rookies) meetings to see what they were doing, what they were building. I enjoyed the game, and next year, I was in. Logomotion (being my rookie year) was a daze, but I enjoyed the game, my only frustration being the minibot, which plagued my team throughout the season. Now, 2012 is my favorite game that I have participated in. This year we have built our most mechanically complex robot and I have enjoyed every moment of it. After watching webcasts, I have found this game the most fun to watch also.

So, in a nutshell:
#1: 2012
#2: 2010
#3: 2011
#4: 2009

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

The years Ive been a part of FIRST:

1. 2007
2. 2010
3. 2011
4. 2012
5. 2008
6. 2009

Im not gonna place 2012 until my team actually competes.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I think we have to have different classes of favorites. '96 was my favorite for the 1v1v1 era, while '99 was my favorite for the 2v2 era (Floppies!, and climbing onto a moving platform).

The 3v3 era has quite a few good choices. I enjoyed Lunacy ('09), but it should have had a better end-game (7th trailer with no robot that you have to put in a starting square or something). If I had to pic a favorite for the 3v3 era, it would probably be Rebound Rumble. I felt that Rack and Roll was a bit flat, as was Breakaway.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Top 5:

2012? - It has the potential to be a great one
2006 - Can you tell I like games that involve shooting balls into goals?
2010 - I loved the number and diversity of technical challenges in this game
2004 - The last game that actually required really tough tradeoffs
2003 - Sentimental pick; the first time we had auto mode!

Bottom 3:

2009 - Horrible to watch
2001 - I hope we never go back to 4 vs. 0 (or 6 vs. 0)
2002 - Push, push, push, match over

I was not around for 2000, but from what I have heard and seen in videos, I think I would have liked it very much.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

What happened to 2007 and 2008?

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Of my years:
#1 2010
#2 2011
#2 2008
#3 2009

2012 looks to be taking the new #2.

Of past years, I'm partial to 2001. I watched the 71 highscore match on Youtube, one of the few I could find, and was mindblown at the sheer amount of coordination required. For reference, it was the only 4v0 game, all robots worked together and shared the total team score.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THGPS...eature=related

Of course I might be a little biased in all this. See team number.

2004 of course was good, along with 2006. 2003 is pretty entertaining for about 2 seconds within the first 10 seconds and then is pretty meh.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Middle of the pack, along with 2011 and 2005.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

2004 is my favorite , seeing as few if any robots could do everything in the game. Alliance selection became geared towards matching your capabilities with your partners. I liked mobile and stationary goals. I liked two different game pieces. I liked a high-impact human player role, i.e. actually scoring, not just returning game pieces to the playing field or handing game pieces to the robot, both of which struck me as somewhat menial. There was no game-breaker strategy, and interference with end-game was allowed, which we used to great effect!

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I only go back to 2009, but I think Rebound Rumble is the best of the four games I've been involved in. The fact that it is already fairly exciting to watch in week 1 bodes well.

My least favorite thing about 2011 Logomotion was that the GDC told us exactly what we had to do and in what order, and there was relatively little we could do to choose an innovative strategy. I also didn't like the diminishing returns for achieving excellence in tube hanging. I think this year is better than last year on both counts.

If 2004 was as much of a trade-off fest as people are saying, I'd like to play a game like that.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I can't comment much on games I never personally spectated so from 2008-2012 my favorite would be Rebound Rumble, thought about it for a long time and came to the conclusion this game has done it the best. 2008 has sentimental value for me being that it was my only year as a student in FIRST and also because our robot just had such a unique way of playing the game it was always fun to watch, but all things considered it was a very simple game and didn't get exciting unless you had high levels of competition.

But back to Rebound Rumble, why is it such a great spectator game?

• Its Basketball! Kind of.. One way or another its easy for people to understand what scores points
• Hybrid mode is just as exciting as any in recent memory, I thought last year was exciting but with this year being less predictable in the way of game pieces, you don't know if that robot that has made all of his hybrid baskets thus far will continue the trend or miss a crucial game deciding shot.
• Coopertition bridge. This bridge can put you ahead of the competition in qualifying rounds or it can take you from losing a match to winning the qualification points you would get for the win. Nice job from the GDC to rework the idea of coopertition and make it something people will cheer for.
• Just like in basketball, you will have clutch game winning shots. This game has the potential for more of these exciting moments than any other game I can think of.
• The bridge balance. Watching three robots or even two trying to balance on these bridges is infinitely entertaining regardless of whether or not they actually do succeed. Add the large number of points these bridges are worth and they are definitely something to watch.
• The last minute shots. Watching a human player make a basket in the last seconds is just as exciting as a robot. Not too many games have the element of a last second human player influence

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

This is also why 2010 is my favorite game I have been involved in so far. I was literally about to post mostly the same list for Breakaway but for hanging (flip hangs and the ONE double hang at MSC were the best). i think that if a non-FIRSTer can come into the arena and be able to figure out the game within a couple matches then it is a marketable, awesomely simple game. I think that Rebound Rumble has this potential too.

Lunacy did have a huge human influence but that didn't make the rest of the game better.... :/

Top 5:
5. 2001 (race against the clock was cool!)
4. 2004
3. 2007 and 2011 (basically the same game save for minibots/ramps)
2. 2005
1. 2010 (possibly 2012)

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

2001 was about as far as you could possibly get from having a non-FIRSTer figure out the scoring of the game within a few matches. I remember sitting in the VIP room in Philadelphia with people who had been there all weekend and still couldn't tabulate the scores themselves. It was an absurdly complicated and esoteric game.

Also, 2007 and 2011 were very different in terms of crowd appeal and gameplay. 2007's scoring was a lot more difficult to tabulate off hand, given its exponential nature (though the general sense of "long rows are good" was easy to convey). Additionally, in 2007 each alliance had their own scoring pieces but shared a scoring area (the rack). In 2011 it was the opposite, as alliances shared scoring pieces but had individual scoring areas.
Just because both games had tubes placed on pegs doesn't make them similar.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I am going to show how long I have been in FIRST. My favorite game was Stack Attack!! That was a very long time ago!

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I've noticed that some are talking about playing the game, and others watching it. I think that these are very different.

For watching, it also depends on wether or not you are a "FIRSTer" or an "off the street" spectator.

From talking to people "off the street" here's some thoughts:

Rebound Rumble - easy to understand, fantastic endgame. I think the GDC got the balance between the endgame, hybrid & teleop just about right. The Coopertition Bridge is a bit confusing ("Why didn't they get points for balancing the bridge?!?"), but it makes just about every matchup a possibly exciting match. The only thing lacking (so far from what I've seen) is the lack of opponent interaction, but the Coopertition Bridge does a good job of making up for that.

Logomotion - You could actually keep track of who was winning as the game progressed without any "real-time scorekeeping" system. The minibots were cool, but the faster they got, the less exciting they were. I think the GDC was expecting a 5 to 10 second race of minibots up the poles, not a blink-and-you-miss-it lottery that determines the win.

Aim High - Exciting, but the scoring periods were very confusing - often people couldn't understand why teams stopped scoring. Good endgame.

Breakaway - Easy to understand, but the 1st week regionals were so plagued with penalties that they game was changed. Endgame was not worth enough points. Ranking teams was very confusing.

These next few are all about the same. Good games, but they have spectator flaws that make them hard to follow.

Triple Play - Teams actually had to strategize on the fly, trying to make and block rows. "Impossible" autonomous mode, which meant a boring start. No real endgame. (The strategy element of this game makes it one of my favorites, and once I would explain to spectators "look at the rows - it's like tic-tac-toe" they would get it easily. Without this explanation, they never seemed to figure out what was going on.) There was also the huge penalty problem...

Overdrive - Very cool to watch robots toss the huge trackball, or run very, very fast around the track. Too many confusing penalties. Not very interesting overall.

Rack 'n' Roll - Good endgame, good basic form, but the special tubes and the exponential scoring made it problematic.

FIRST Frenzy - Fantastic challenge, exciting endgame, but way to much going on for someone to figure out.

Zone Zeal - The eliminations were substantially different from the qualifications. No endgame (at least not once certain strategies were allowed...) Ranking based on looser score was confusing to many.

Coopertition - Good solid game. Nice endgame. Just not fantastic.

These games were "less than spectator friendly"

Stack Attack - Nobody made stacks... This made it an exciting first 10 seconds and exciting final 10 seconds, but not much to watch in the middle.

Diabolical Dynamics - I actually liked the 4 vs. 0 game, but it was difficult to follow in terms of scoring. "What are they trying to do?" was a common question. Any game that can have "good" rounds score between 3 and 700 points has a problem.

Lunacy - Aptly named. It just about always ended up with bots crammed together slowly moving around each other trying to get any sort of advantage. (It really reminded me of those old school "electric" football games.)

I think the quality of the games have improved in general, and certainly in terms of spectator experience. The scoring has simplified. Any time there is something that multiplied (or changed the exponent!) of the score, it makes the point values swing far too wildly.

Now for actually playing the games, or watching them from the standpoint of having been on a team, that's a different story...

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

AIM HIGH!
Who doesnt like machine guns and shooting at targets?

**video game freak**

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

The 2004 game is by far my favorite. Nothing can beat hanging in the endgame. It was exciting for the crowd to watch. I also loved how diverse teams were in robot design. 67's wedgebot from that year is still my all time favorite FRC robot.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

My 2011-compiled elements of a good FRC spectator game:

1) Robots moving quickly around or across the field
2) Flying things
3) Scoring that the audience can understand
4) Highly visible and important endgame
5) Well-weighted scoring

Logomotion: 1, 2, 3, maybe 5
Breakaway: 3, 4, sometimes 2
Lunacy: 2, 3
Overdrive: 1, 2, 3, maybe 5

I fell like this largely holds true--most of the people I talk to enjoyed watching Logomotion and Overdrive and disliked Lunacy and Breakaway.

So far, Rebound Rumble is a tale of two games--in qualifications it has 2, 3, 4, and maybe (we'll see) 5. In eliminations teams start playing defense, and it meets all five criteria, which says to me that the GDC is learning more and more what makes their games popular.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Are you saying the minibots from LogoMotion didn't qualify as a "highly visible and important endgame"?

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

When a climb lasts 2 seconds, I wouldn't call that "highly visible".

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I wasn't saying that easy scoring calculations was the criteria for all my favorites. Everything from 1 down isn't that easy to calculate quickly or follow simply. The best FRC Games are though, imho. the other games I listed I just thought were cool! :D

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Something that I think is often overlooked, but that I think is essential for a good game from an entertainment/spectator perspective, is interaction between the teams/robots. Not necessarily physical interaction, i.e. robot contact (although it certainly helps), but interaction of strategies: offense AND defense, and teams working against each other rather than just trying to rack up points. This is why I loved Triple Play, really disliked Logomotion, and think that this year's game will probably turn out very well once all of the teams figure it out.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I honestly didn't like it that much, but I wasn't involved that much that year so I can't make a real judgement and put it on the spectrum. My most-intense memory of 2004 is getting eliminated by a team just because they had a better basketball player than ours. I really disliked how key human players were that year - they were even more important than in 2009.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

I know its early, but I'm going to say Rebound Rumble is my favorite game. Now I know all you historic FIRSTers are saying 2004, but my rookie year was in 2006. I honestly believe that Rebound Rumble is the most complete game from both a driver and fans perspective.

1. Real time scoring with penalties included. No explanation needed.
2. Hybrid is important, but is balanced. Winning hybrid doesn't guarantee a win in this game, but it does make the following 2 minutes more dramatic.
3. TRIPLE BALANCE!? Are you kidding me, in my history of FIRST I have never yelled at my computer watching a webcast. 148 and company winning matches by scoring a 40 point bonus was intense. I can't wait for more dramatic finishes.
4. The last second hail mary shots. Look at these faces, now a human player hasn't decided a game yet, but when it does happen, crowds will go wild.
5. There are so many different strategies. Starvation + Ramp, blitzkrieg scoring, shutdown defense + ramp, the list goes on.
6. Its actually basketball. No more explaining to your friends why you spent 6 weeks building a robot to lift inner-tubes.

Now the game isn't perfect, but its my favorite to date. Good work GDC, I'm looking forward to playing football next year.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

2012 is looking good to being a second or third game. I wanna see a competition up close to see how good it really is.

For me, 2004 will always be the Ultimate game. The options of what to do, the challenges, etc. made it a truly incredible game to play. Not to mention hanging robots is always fun. (And winning an engineering award with no engineers on the team always is fun)

Others I participated in.
2002-meh
2003-Good game, too simple
2005-Minus the bads, a close second to my favorite
2006-Clean and simple
2007-Good game, lacked polish for me
2008-NASCAR inspired so a good one

One's I watched.
2009-Liked the weird balls
2010-Great game for the hanging and barriers
2011-'2007' with polish

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Boy is that the truth. It's crazy difficult to take our last robot out to demonstrations and explain exactly what the challenge is in lifting an innertube 8ft.

Re: Favorite FRC Game?
 

Thank you! I haven't found anyone who likes Stack Attack. I was a spectator then, but it was amazing to watch. It was also my first exposure to a FIRST regional. It got me hooked on FIRST and I was so excited for the Granite State Regional every year.