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-   -   Why I love the coopertition bridge (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104471)

Grim Tuesday 11-03-2012 17:06

Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
For many years, FIRST has been trying to push the message of coopertition and Gracious Professionalism. For many, it seems that Coopertition was simply a part of GP, and I was OK with that. But no matter what, it was never properly implemented into the game. I can't comment on the 2000 game, but looking at recent years, the latest implementation of Coopertition was in 2010, with the screwy ranking system. It would seem that the goals of the system were to help other teams off and on the field, to make the score as high as possible, and thus more fun to watch for spectators. However, it didn't really work out that way. People helped off of the field, but that's always been part of FIRST tradition. On the field, the coopertition, I feel, never developed in the way the GDC intended it to. No team fed balls to the other alliance for the goal of making a closer game, because that would simply be stupid.

However, this year, the GDC nailed it. The Coopertition bridge serves every purpose imaginable. It:
  • Promotes Coopertition between teams, on and off the field
  • Makes the game more fun to watch
  • Rewards teams not for having just the best robots, but knowing how to play the game
  • Because it shuffles the ranking system, it makes eliminations more fun to watch

The bridge this year opens every regional up to everyone, not just the powerhouses, and easily rockets this year into one of the best FRC games ever.

Sean Raia 11-03-2012 17:29

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Agreed. Talking to teams from the opposing alliance before the match on how we were going to handle balancing the bridge felt new and very fun.

It really gave me the feeling that even though we may be competing, we are trying to help each other out.

Brandon_L 11-03-2012 17:44

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
I completely agree. GDC absolutely nailed it this year. The one thing that I have seen enough for me to make a note of it though, is that you really only see those powerhouse teams on the coopertition bridge. In our last event, we only got two or so chances to go for it, while our local powerhouse was on it nearly every match. Also, I have seen a team get nasty at us because a team on the other alliance was on it and lowered it to our side waiting for a partner, and we went for it. Apparently they planned to go for it with a certain team and told none of the other teams on either alliance. Their reaction after the match was pretty awkward and un-GP, especially at a FRC event.

Just some negatives that I've noticed. Other then these, this is the best case of Coopertition I've seen in an FRC game.

Jaxom 11-03-2012 17:55

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday (Post 1142265)
...looking at recent years, the latest implementation of Coopertition was in 2010, with the screwy ranking system. It would seem that the goals of the system were to help other teams off and on the field, to make the score as high as possible, and thus more fun to watch for spectators. However, it didn't really work out that way. People helped off of the field, but that's always been part of FIRST tradition. On the field, the coopertition, I feel, never developed in the way the GDC intended it to. No team fed balls to the other alliance for the goal of making a closer game, because that would simply be stupid.

I don't know about *feeding* balls to other teams but many teams certainly scored for the other alliance in 2010. We had a number of matches where we ended up scoring most of the other alliance's points, in an attempt to give us more seeding points. And we were far from the only team that did that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday (Post 1142265)
However, this year, the GDC nailed it.

While I agree that this year's implementation was better than 2010, in my opinion it still leaves something to be desired. There's *too* much emphasis on the coopertition bridge; I feel it would be a better system if the points were a bit smaller than winning; say 3 for a win & 2 for a co-op balance.

Haven't teams always been rewarded for knowing how to play the game? The difference is, I think, that "knowing how to play the game" has usually meant "knowing what's important to put into the best robots". This year I think that's still the case, but this year you have to rely on *all* the other teams knowing how to play the game -- not just your alliance. You really *do* need to cooperate with the other team.

adam the great 11-03-2012 18:52

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
I agree that in past years the fact that Gracious Professionalism has not had the full effect that it should have had in the actual matches. adding in the cooperation bridge added the need to work with the other alliance and work together to help each other and not just do everything you could to beat them. Having to go and talk with the other alliances about who would go for the cooperation bridge before each match was a very new aspect to strategy but i personally thought it was great for students to get more chances to realize how to work together in FIRST as a whole to succeed.

Koko Ed 11-03-2012 18:56

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
I call the Co-Opertition Bridge Anchor Alliance Insurance.
Got saddled with a bad alliance going against a good one? Make a run for the Co-Opetertition Bridge and keep yourself from being dragged down the standings.

EricH 11-03-2012 19:02

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
I see the bridge as a really, really nice twist to the game. I'd like to see something similar appear in future games. It has a huge impact on the rankings; I've seen teams just sort of make a run up the rankings without warning as they started being in matches where the bridge was balanced.

And, the bridge is with a really good game in the first place. I think Rebound Rumble is one of the best games the GDC has come up with. Take the play of Aim High and the ball handling of Breakaway, and add only the bridge from Diabolical Dynamics (made "competitive").

gyroscopeRaptor 11-03-2012 19:15

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Judging by the meltdown at GTR East, the bridge is bringing out the best and worst in teams.

Koko Ed 11-03-2012 19:20

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor (Post 1142356)
Judging by the meltdown at GTR East, the bridge is bringing out the best and worst in teams.

I have a bad feeling the Bridge is gonna really cause some desperate measures by some teams come championships. Everybody is gonna want to hit that bridge and only a third of the field can. Not everyone is gonna be happy about that.

Lil' Lavery 11-03-2012 19:46

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko Ed (Post 1142360)
I have a bad feeling the Bridge is gonna really cause some desperate measures by some teams come championships. Everybody is gonna want to hit that bridge and only a third of the field can. Not everyone is gonna be happy about that.

:confused:

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying, but you do realize that all six teams get the coopertition points, right? Not just the two on the bridge.

Andrew Lawrence 11-03-2012 19:51

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1142370)
:confused:

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying, but you do realize that all six teams get the coopertition points, right? Not just the two on the bridge.

You're correct. I think what Koko means is everyone is going to want to balance on the bridge, but only 2 robots can.

Which (no offense) doesn't make any sense, because there is another bridge besides the coop bridge for each alliance.

Koko Ed 11-03-2012 20:01

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1142370)
:confused:

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying, but you do realize that all six teams get the coopertition points, right? Not just the two on the bridge.

Oh. My mistake then. I thought the two team balancing ont he bridge were the only ones getting the Co-Opertition points.

LeelandS 11-03-2012 20:18

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
I love the co-op bridge. I think it's a great way to let teams who don't score a gajillion have a shot at ranking well in competition, as well as adding a fun and interest facet to the game, where you need to interact with more teams, including those on the opposing alliance.

What I don't like is it is a way for teams who are "less-than-gracious" to take cheap shots at the teams who build great robots and are in line to win the event moreso than they are. While it's well within a team's right to refuse to coopertitionate, to refuse to do so in an attempt to prevent a powerhouse team from seeding high is just not okay, and not within the spirit of FIRST at all. Moreover, to sabotage the balancing of a powerful team on the coopertition bridge is just disgraceful to FIRST as a whole (I am, of course, especially referring to the experiences of 1114 and 2056 this past weekend at GTR-E).

I love the co-op points, and I love what FIRST is trying to get teams to do. But we don't live in a perfect world. There are going to be teams who abuse the influence of the coopertition points to get at powerful teams. I still love the coopertition bridge, though. It's one of my favorite parts of this game. It's unique. It's new. It's exciting!

Steven Donow 11-03-2012 20:21

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
When it was first revealed, I hated the coopertition bridge. I thought it would totally mess up the ranking system and just be a terrible thing.


After competing in my first competition of the year, I absolutely love it. As mentioned already in the thread, talking to teams on the other alliance was new, fun, and an excellent twist. It definitely makes qualification matches that much more exciting to watch.

tsakshaug 11-03-2012 21:56

Re: Why I love the coopertition bridge
 
Watching the drive teams talk to each other in their alliance and then with the opposing alliance was great. It became a part of the queueing routine for may of the better teams. Watching the balance was perhaps the best part of the matches, the feedback from parents and students of my FLL team tended to agree with this. One thing for sure, you needed a robust robot to live through some of the near misses in balancing. Getting turned over during the process, and then being ready for your next match was a telling sign of a well designed robot.


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